Why Did Trump Change His Mind and Call For Release of the Epstein Files? Will They See Light of Day?

Summary

---

2WAY Morning Meeting Podcast Summary

Episode: Why Did Trump Change His Mind and Call For Release of the Epstein Files? Will They See Light of Day?
Date: November 17, 2025
Hosts: Mark Halperin (Host), Sean Spicer, Dan Turrentine

---

Overview

This episode dives deep into former President Trump's abrupt reversal on the release of the Epstein files, examining the political, legal, and cultural consequences. Mark, Sean, and Dan analyze how this 180° turn happened, what it signals for Republican and Democratic strategies, and the wider reverberations through topics ranging from Marjorie Taylor Greene’s GOP fissure, health care affordability, and U.S. foreign policy. Listeners are taken inside the mood of Washington’s morning newsrooms, with signature banter, pointed questions, and callers’ perspectives.

---

Main Discussion: Trump’s Flip on Epstein Files

Why Did Trump Reverse Course?

• Trump’s sudden support for a House bill to release Jeffrey Epstein-related government documents marks a rare instance of events controlling Trump, not vice versa.
  • Dan (01:14): “One of the few times in his presidency where events are controlling him and he's not controlling events.”
• The hosts debate whether Trump’s change is proactive strategy, simply getting on the “right side” of an inevitable vote, or reactive damage control amid rising support for transparency.
  • Sean (01:25): “The votes continue to get higher and higher and, and it was inevitable. And the idea was be on the right side of the vote.”

Political Motives & Calculations

• Trump’s new endorsement puts Senate Republicans (especially Majority Leader John Thune) in a bind: speed the bill up or bottle it in committee?

  • Sean (07:14): "If I were Jonathan [Thune], I would take the bird in hand and just say, that's Mr. President, this there. If you gave me the green light...”
  • Dan (06:39): “If he's calling for it to be released now, the problem is what do Republicans say?... most of your base wants it out.”

• Host notes that although releasing FBI and grand jury evidence is unorthodox, DOJ will control what gets released, and redactions may draw out the process significantly.

  • Sean (07:57): “Always in the back of my mind, remember who controls the release, right? DOJ is going to determine what gets out. And if I were Democrats right now, I'd be very, very worried.”

The Drama and Optics

• Critique and humor at the contradiction: pressure Republicans to kill the bill, then flip to “let it out” when the tide turns.

  • Dan (07:45): “You're literally twisting arms of individual members, threatening them with PR primaries ... And then you're like, we should vote for it. We have nothing to hide. Let it out.”

• Both parties are seen as playing political games—the host underlines that Democrats did not push for release when in power, and now capitalize on GOP division.

  • Host (17:11): “So the Republicans are right that the Democrats motives are at least suspect because when they had control... they didn’t do anything to try to bring this stuff out.”

Notable Quotes

• President Trump (12:02): “Fake news like you, they just keep bringing that up to deflect from the tremendous success of the Trump administration.”
• Dan (15:00): "The last week has felt for the first time since COVID in Trump's 10 years where events are controlling him and he is not controlling events."
• Sean (15:42): “You can't get people—it's like firing up somebody and then saying, 'well, you gotta calm down.' Well, you're the one who fired them up..."

---

Marjorie Taylor Greene vs. Trump: GOP Tensions

GOP Infighting

• Marjorie Taylor Greene stands her ground against Trump, invoking concern over women’s safety and calling herself no traitor.
• Sean (13:38): “I'm not a big fan of red on red. I don't like it... When you have a one or two seat majority, creating enemies ... is not probably the most helpful thing.”
• Dan (14:51): “She stood toe to toe with him and she won on this issue.”
• Some Dems frame this as the "start of the great unraveling" for MAGA’s grip; Dan believes it’s a tactical one-off driven by unique pressures.

---

Will the Epstein Files Ever See the Light of Day?

Legislative & Institutional Barriers

• Uncertainty remains whether the Senate will act, if the president will sign, and what the DOJ will redact.
  • Host (08:13): “Unclear...whether it's been redacted already, because if it hasn't...this could be a long time, even if the President signs it into law.”

Redaction, Conspiracy, and Collateral Damage

• Both hosts and callers worry that the mix of redactions, public speculation, and high-profile names (including foreign and business elites) will fuel conspiracy theories.

  • Dan (19:19): “No, because conspiracy theories need oxygen...”
  • Sean (19:24): “When enough people have seen it...enough dots are able to connect where it's like, okay, that person, that's Professor Plum...”

• Dan (58:00): “I'm not sure how you can contain the Internet and social media...particularly...there will be redactions that is going to spin people off…”

• Callers and panel worry about international blowback, e.g., Prince Andrew, UK, Canadian politics.

  • Caller Arjun (55:31): “It worries me that there’s something particularly explosive in these files that could really disrupt American...but also more than American politics…”
  • Sean (58:01): “We're pulling the pin out of the grenade ... you're suddenly going to have people, politicians, athletes, celebrities, financiers...bringing up a really interesting point...it could be pretty sad.”

Potential for Misreading and Out-of-Context Revelations

• Sean (58:01): “Getting these things released out of context is what the problem is ... the context is going to get missed because of the volume...that’s going to cause a lot of heartache...”

---

Other Major Topics Covered

Health Care & Affordability

• Trump floats the idea of paying people directly to buy their insurance instead of subsidizing companies—a shift driven by campaign situation and affordability political pressures.
  • President Trump (22:47): “The insurance companies are making a fortune...why don't we just pay this money directly to the people of our country and let them buy their own health insurance?...I made it a little bit cavalierly, but it sounded good and everybody has picked up, including Democrats.”
• Sharp disagreement: Dan ridicules Republican reliance on health savings accounts as insufficient for most Americans.
  • Dan (26:33): “Health savings accounts are a joke. Who are you negotiating with? ... Five million people negotiating with health insurers? No, no, no, no, no.”

US Foreign Policy: Venezuela & MBS

• Trump administration shows force vs. Venezuela’s Maduro regime but also signals openness to talks—a possible search for an off-ramp.

  • Sean (30:35): "They've ramped all this up, put all the assets off the coast...but let's talk..."
  • Dan (31:33): “They wanted it to be conflict. They wanted it to be his Granada. ... the timing is terrible for them...”

• MBS’s (Saudi Crown Prince) visit—White House wishes for headlines about investment and Abraham Accords.

  • Sean (32:35): “Saudi makes massive US Investment shows signs towards joining Abraham Accords.”

Domestic Political Maneuvering

• Trump’s stance on high-profile right-wing figures (Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes) and the implications for the GOP’s image and future standard-bearers like J.D. Vance.
  • President Trump (35:54, 36:42): “[Tucker Carlson] ... we've had good interviews. I can't tell him who to interview. ... [on Nick Fuentes]: He was with Kanye ... I didn't know Nick at the time.”
• Ted Cruz is quietly positioning for a 2028 run by staking out distinct positions but is unlikely to succeed unless Trump or Vance falter.

---

Listener Highlights & Audience Calls

[55:31] — Caller Arjun (Ottawa, Canada)

• Raises concerns about fallout from Epstein files abroad.
• Asks, “How exactly does the government plan to keep the extremes at bay, like the Fuentes types and the AOC types?”
  → Dan & Sean: Both admit there’s no real way to fully contain the fallout or the spread of mis/disinformation—public figures will face scrutiny not just for actions, but for not speaking up.

[50:37] — Caller Christopher (Bradenton, FL)

• On Trump: “Sometimes...he doesn’t focus in public enough… wanted to know your thoughts.”
  • Sean: “His instinct on a lot of issues is a lot better than a lot of the pundits and the pros… Every time I second guessed him...he's won and he's done it his way.”
  • Dan: “He cannot bring himself to focus on…affordability, where he is struggling. So he just changes the subject. … might be a good tactic in the long run, but people don't like leaders who keep telling them they're wrong.”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Exchanges

• Dan (15:00): "For the first time...where events are controlling him and he’s not controlling events."
• Sean (15:42): "You fired them up and now you want them to calm down."
• President Trump (12:02): “Fake news like you, they just keep bringing that up to deflect...”
• Sean (58:01): "We're pulling the pin out of the grenade..."
• Dan (19:08): “There are a lot of people probably not sleeping well in my neighborhood on the Upper east side right now.”
• Host (19:40): “Isn't it incredible...that people had seen Jeffrey Epstein’s email saying Trump’s a dog that didn’t bark...and that never came out till just now?”

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Epstein Files Flip & Analysis: [01:04] – [09:58]
• Marjorie Taylor Greene, GOP Drama: [12:00] – [15:42]
• Motives, Redaction, Fallout: [17:11] – [19:40]
• Health Care, Affordability Politics: [20:44] – [29:11]
• US-Venezuela Policy: [29:13] – [32:35]
• MBS & NY Politics: [32:35] – [34:58]
• GOP 2028 Landscape (Vance, Cruz): [39:58] – [42:24]
• Democratic 2028 Field, Newsom vs. AOC: [42:30] – [49:43]
• Notable Callers, Public Questions: [50:37] – [61:00]

---

Tone & Style

• Forward-looking, conversational, occasionally sardonic.
• Balanced contrasts: Sean (pragmatic, often defends Trump), Dan (sharply critical, strategic Democratic view), Mark (inquisitive, steers discussion without sparing the hard questions).
• Light, familiar banter is common, especially in transitions between serious analysis.

---

Conclusion

This episode stands as a snapshot of political uncertainty and information brinkmanship in Washington: Trump is on defense, his party is wrestling with fractures old and new, and Congress faces a historic question about opening up secrets with potentially global consequences. The hosts see the coming release—or non-release—of the Epstein documents as a defining test for both parties’ credibility, with unpredictable ramifications for government, media, and public trust.

---

For listeners wishing to engage further:
Sean will host Alan Dershowitz (Epstein’s former attorney) to break down what’s at stake when the files go up for vote.
Next 2WAY Morning Meeting: tomorrow, 9am ET.

Transcript

[Sponsor Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Netflix. New players, new games, new rules. Squid Game the challenge returns for a gripping second season. 456 contestants from all walks of life competing in the ultimate test of strategy, alliances and endurance for a life changing prize of $4.56 million. With stakes this high, why make friends when you can make millions? Catch up on the latest episodes now playing only on Netflix. A message from McAfee wondering why the post office is texting you or why you owe thousands of dollars in toll fees because someone's trying to scam you. The good news? McAfee can help. With McAfee's award winning scam detection. It's easy to tell what's real and what's fake over text, in your inbox and online.

[Sean]

If they're fa, you want a free gift.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Seriously, if they're faking it, they're not making it past us. Get award winning scam detection today. McAfee.com Keep it real.

[Host]

Hey, Dan, what was your reaction when you heard President Trump had done a 180 on the house vote on Epstein? Was your, was your like, stream of.

[Dan]

Consciousness reaction one of the few times in his presidency where events are controlling him and he's not controlling events?

[Host]

Sean, were you surprised that the president did a 180 on that thing?

[Caller Arjun]

No.

[Sean]

We talked about this last week. The votes continue to get higher and higher and, and it was inevitable. And the idea was be on the right side of the vote.

[Host]

All right.

[Dan]

I'm excited to see him. You know, he would call for the Senate to, you know, call for thune to do this and oh, by the way, he could do this if he wanted to. But yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Well, it's, of course we'll get into the whole thing because it's a little unorthodox to release FBI documents and grand jury material. So we'll talk about, talk about what.

[Dan]

Happens not in this administration.

[Host]

What happens next after the president's dramatic 180. Thank you for joining. We have plenty of topics to talk to you about. Not just Jeffrey Epstein, but we'll start there in a moment. This is 2A the Morning Meeting. Welcome in, Sean. Dan and I will walk you through the day and the style of the network news division's morning meetings where we'll take you through the day being very forward looking about what we think will happen next. And then of course, we'd welcome your comments, questions. What we don't welcome is your smack in the chat. Please join Marjorie Taylor Greene, calling for national peace, love and understanding and presumption of grace to all. Let's all just get along. We will. Professor Kenny will be leading us all in a rousing rendition of Kumbaya about halfway through the program just to re level set. Thank you for being here. If you're here and you've never raised your hand, today's the day to do it. But it's not the day to put smack in the chat either here on the two way platform or on X or especially on YouTube where you the biggest smackers amongst the community like to go to. Just smack, smack, smack, smack, smack, smack, smack. All right, so in a moment we'll talk Epstein. We'll talk. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Affordability, Maduro, MBS Momdani, Indiana. Tucker Fuentes, Cruz Newsom. Lots of topics.

[Dan]

Ten topics.

[Host]

Stand by for that. Dan's not wearing fairway and green, but Sean is. Sean always. What do you got on today?

[Sean]

I got the quarter zip with the morning meeting logo on the front.

[Host]

Yeah, handsome. Yeah, I got that. What do you call this? Merino wool. Merino wool.

[Sean]

Is that a vest or is that a quarter? Like I know they've got one where they just goes like halfway down.

[Host]

It's a quarter zip vest. Yeah.

[Sean]

It's great for golf. You know Marina will your chest when that wind's coming across the ninth.

[Host]

I, I wear it for Parcheesi. I wear it for, for also for backgammon. Anyway, two opportunities to purchase fairway and green products either with our logos and catchphrases or just plain unadorned. One, you can just go to the go to the website Two Way TV Fairway. Use the promo code elections25, 25% off. But if you're looking to buy in bulk quality products, family, employees, customers, clients, and you're looking to do your holiday shopping, you'll see in the chat right now send an email to [e-mail] and just tell them you're interested in buying a bunch of gifts for folks. They'll make it easy. Sales2wayummitgolfbrands.com and get your holiday shopping done.

[Sponsor Voice]

Now if we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With the all new sleep score, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions and sleep duration. Then every morning it combines these factors into an easy to understand score from 1 to 100. So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from good to excellent. Introducing the new Sleep score on Apple Watch iPhone 11 or later required.

[Host]

Another way to get your holiday shopping done is with our friends at Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth also offering you an extraordinary discount because you're a member of the two way community. 40% off cozy earth products go to cozyearth.com promo code 2wmm2wmm for 40% off. Black Friday continues. Every day is Black Friday. If you're a member of the two way community, go to cozyearth.com get the bamboo pajama set, the bubble cuddle blanket, the towels which continue to star in the Spicer and Alpern households. Dan, you have the towels yet or still?

[Dan]

No, no, we got sheets. Bubble. Yeah, bubble blanket was a big hit last night here. It was very cold in New York.

[Host]

Yeah, it was cold last night. Anyway, you can wrap the ones you love in luxury with Cozy Earth right now by going to cozyearth.com promo code two way oh no, sorry. Promo code 2WMM 2WMM for an amazing 40% off. Get those savings now. This deal will not last forever. So again, go to cozy earth.com promo code 2 WMM.

[President Trump]

Grabbing the holidays by the boughs with Duluth. Step one, hire a mall Santa to handle snow removal. Oh my sciatica. Step two, head Duluth training and load up on fire hose pants, buck naked underwear, pocket pack bibs, free swinging flannel and all kinds of ingenious gear you won't find anywhere else. Grab the holidays by the bows and shop Duluth trading online and in store.

[Host]

All right, Dan, you teed this up, so you go, what's John Thune going to do? Let's skip over an overwhelming House vote. Will Jonathan take this up? There are very few Republican senators on the record in favor of it. As best I can tell, the gentleman from Missouri is an exception because he's often an exception. But what do you expect happens now in the Senate once the House passes this?

[Dan]

Well, I think it's interesting because we all assume that Trump did not want it out. Therefore, if he lost the House, he would go to the Senate and try to get it buried.

[Caller Arjun]

And.

[Dan]

But if he's calling for it to be released now, the problem is what do Republicans say? Like do you, you know, most of your base wants it out. So I now think maybe it will come out. I think maybe the Senate will vote for it eventually. They'll put it on something.

[Host]

Yeah. So Sean, Dan says eventually, but we'll thune dick around and kind of try to get a sense of things or just instantly call for say there's going to be a vote.

[Sean]

So if I were Jonathan, I would take the bird in hand and just say, that's Mr. President, this there. If you gave me the green light, I am announcing that as soon as this passes, I mean, you might as.

[Host]

Well go, well, but you sure the president wants that? He didn't mention this? He did. I'm serious. It's possible that he thinks he can bottle it up in the Senate.

[Sean]

Well, that's, that's the issue. They just, if he's got to figure out where he stands right away because he's either got to bury this thing and then that's it. But he can't go back and forth a little because his members are going to want to know what to know how the messages.

[Dan]

I mean, what's just so bizarre is like you're literally twisting arms of individual members, threatening them with PR primaries, you know, calling people in the Situation Room. And then you're like, we should vote for it. We have nothing to hide. Let it out.

[Host]

That's why we call it A one.

[Sean]

I gotta tell you, though, here, here's the, here's the thing. Always in the back of my mind, remember who controls the release, right? DOJ is going to determine what gets out. And if I were Democrats right now, I'd be very, very worried about who's on that list and what's about to come out.

[Dan]

Only one president, Sean.

[Host]

People. President, people have asked how, how much is there? There's a lot. The documents that have been released, also voluminous, are simply from the Epstein estate. There's a lot of material that the Justice Department has and we'll see. Also, unclear to me whether it's been redacted already, because if it hasn't already been fully redacted, this could be a long time, even if the President signs it into law. And again, it's not a foregone conclusion the Senate will take it up or break a filibuster. It's not a foregone conclusion that the President will sign it. But even if all those things happen, and even if they happen in short order, it could be a long time before we see the documents, if the redactions haven't taken place. All right, today the president has two events. Two o' clock, he meets with the White House Task Force on the World Cup. That's pool press. So we could see questions, and they may not all be about overtime and penalty kicks. And then six o', clock, he's speaking at the summit McDonald's is having in D.C. it doesn't say where that is, but in that in town travel pool. So presumably he's going to like some convention center or something. Don't know what the veep is doing today. Senate is out. The House is meeting for legislative business rules committees doing some stuff on petroleum on the National Petroleum Reserve. And conference and caucus leaderships are meeting separately this evening. Week ahead. Tomorrow, of course, the President's hosting MBS in Washington and a big dinner and being meeting and meetings on the Hill. Tuesday is the vote on the Epstein files. Wednesday, the Saudis are hosting a big investment conference at the Kennedy Center. So he'll be here. MBS will be here for at least three days. And then amongst Jimmy Kimmel's guests this week, the great Adam Sandler.

[Dan]

And he is great.

[Host]

Eric. He is great. And Eric Swalwell, who maybe will announce his governor. Governor right on Kimmel. And that which is in California, of course. And then Stephen Colbert's guests include, get this, ladies and gentlemen, this is like Murderers Row. Julia Roberts, America's sweetheart. Ted Danson, brilliant on Curb and Cheers and a bunch of stuff. Benedict Cumberbatch, most successful albino in the history of acting. And then Elizabeth Warren, Senator Elizabeth Warren.

[Dan]

By the way, Mark, with the World cup, you know, the, it's been a little under the radar, this idea of polling the World cup out of certain cities that the White House deems to be not safe. The FIFA announced that they would defer to the White House, to the, to the host country. You think there's a chance that Chicago or somewhere loses the World cup coming out of today?

[Host]

There is a chance.

[Sean]

Just for the record, for anyone from the FIFA, Mr. Giuliani and others. Just remember Gillette Stadium is in Foxborough, not Boston.

[Dan]

Look at that.

[Sean]

You do not screw with just because the mayor there is not doing Fox.

[Host]

Foxboro is not a sanctuary city as far as I know.

[Sean]

Maybe it's not. No, I'm just. I just want to be clear that.

[Host]

No, do you know that it's not. Do you know that Foxborough is not a sanctuary city?

[Sean]

Well, I, I will say, the little I know of Foxboro politics, I don't know that it's that big of a deal. Like, I don't know that it's. It's that I'm not sure that you've got a ton of sanctuary.

[Host]

Yeah, understood, understood. Anyway, last night, the President didn't talk on Air Force One on the flight back from Florida, but he did talk on the tarmac and he talked a lot. In fact, you could Almost imagine that the President was just trying to basically program the morning meeting because he talked about every topic under the sun. Let's listen to him talk here. We'll play him back to back. First about Epstein and then about Marjorie Taylor Greene. 105 and 107, please. Back to back. He says he's concerned that the Epstein probe you are calling for could be a smoke screen to lock or release some more files. Is that the case?

[President Trump]

Well, I don't want to talk about it because fake news like you, you're a terrible reporter, and fake news like you, they just keep bringing that up to deflect from the tremendous success of the Trump administration. So a guy like Massie has been. Poll numbers are showing he's at 6% approval rating right now, and we call him Rand Paul Jr. Because he never, he never votes for the Republican Party. So they're using Jeffrey Epstein as a deflection from the tremendous success that we're having as a party.

[Sean]

Her life could be at danger because of the rhetoric.

[President Trump]

Her life is in danger. Who's that?

[Host]

Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[President Trump]

She says Marjorie Trader Greene. I don't think her life is in danger. I don't think, frankly, I don't think anybody cares about her. Okay, what about you?

[Host]

So both before and after the President's 180 on whether he supported the House vote. Lots of back and forth on social media. He using Truth Social, she using X between the President and Marjorie Taylor Greene. I can't read you her entire series of tweets because they're too much. 108 A&B, we'll flash them up on the screen. For those of you listening to the program on a podcast, you're out of luck because I'm just not going to read these things. But basically, she's saying she's endangered. It's all the President's fault. She still thinks the President's awesome, but she's not a traitor. Blah, blah, blah, back and forth, back and forth. Sean, is it in the President's interest to keep going after Marjorie Taylor Greene now, or will he, you think back down? Because, I mean, the vote's happening and he only elevates her.

[Sean]

Well, not just that, but I, I what? I A, I'm not a big fan of red on red. I don't like it. Number two, is it when you have a one or two seat majority, creating enemies that you may need for a vote is not probably the most helpful thing. So I, I just, I'm not sure that it's helpful in the long run. I get he's not pleased with her position on this. But I will say that I've, I had Marjorie on the show on Wednesday or Thursday of last Wednesday of last week and she comes at this from a place of concern for women and she has very much been very, it's a long standing thing that she has had. So this is not, there's no one that's ever questioned her commitment and her loyalty to President Trump and the America first agenda. So I just have never been a big fan of red on red stuff. I get that they're pissed at her, but I wish that we didn't have to handle it like this out in the open.

[Host]

Dan, some Democrats have been texting me, including some on the from the Hill saying this is epic because it's really the first big fight between MAGA and the President that's been caused by Democrat leverage and that this is the start of the great unraveling as opposed to just a one off, you know, idiosyncratic thing because of Epstein and Green. Which camp would you be in and why?

[Dan]

I mean I think it, I think it's a one off. But I said this to start the show. The last week has felt for the first time since COVID in Trump's 10 years where events are controlling him and he is not controlling events. And Marjorie Taylor Greene, let's assume this vote, it happens Tuesday and whatever 100 some odd Republicans vote for it, she won. Like he backed off. Now the question is will he take her out in a primary? Because that has always been what makes him feared is over 10 years his record in primaries is phenomenal. So I don't know if this is the beginning of kind of the party not fearing him as much. We're going to get to some other topics where I think people are going to be in a bind and they're going to have to start choosing sides. But she stood toe to toe with him and she won on this issue.

[Sean]

Can I just say this? This is why this is not only just a one off, but it is unbelievably unique. The president and MAGA made this issue a big deal during the campaign, talked about the release the doj, as we all saw, that group of influencers who came to the White House and they were talking about releasing the files, giving people binders and then suddenly it was the first 180 was now we don't want to talk about it again. So this was so if you are a MAGA person, if you are a supporter of Donald Trump Then you thought you were on the right side of this issue for the last two years where you were saying, great, he wants transparency. It's all Democrats wrapped up in this. This is great for us. It wasn't until he, you know, said, I don't want to talk about it anymore. But you can't get people, you know, it's like firing up somebody and then saying, well, you got to calm down. Well, you're the one who fired them up and now you guys want them to just calm down. So I, this is to me a very one off issue because it was, it was initiated and propelled by the MAGA base.

[Dan]

But here's where there is something for what Democrats. You know, I agree with Sean. This is a. Trump made his own bed on this issue. But now I can look at another set of it, like health care, where Trump is saying we have to do something his party doesn't. What you see in these instances is Democrats are united, Republicans are divided. And that is where, if they stick together, they have some leverage. They do, because, oh, you only have to break off a few people and then you got a problem.

[Host]

Let me ask one, let me ask one more Epstein question. Let me ask one more Epstein question and then we'll move to affordability and healthcare. So the Republicans are right that the Democrats motives are at least suspect because when they had control of the White House and Congress, they didn't do anything to try to bring this stuff out. So they claim this is all about the alleged victims and this is all about transparency. But there's obviously a political motive too, on the part of all the Republicans, all the Democrats claiming to want this. And I think Trump thought if he waved the bloody shirt of Bill Clinton and Larry Summers, the Democrats might back down. Dan, it seems to me that Trump made a miscalculation here, not just about Marjorie Taylor Greene, but also about the Democrats. The Democrats in Congress don't care if Bill Clinton and Larry Summers go down. It would appear.

[Dan]

Sure. I mean, think of it this way. We talk about Trump's influence on the young voters with maga, right? And how influential they are and how like this has kind of been a little bit of a bee in their bonnet. Most of those people weren't born when Bill Clinton was president. They don't care. It's a dog from 30 years ago. So I don't think the party cares. Of course we're playing politics. We didn't care about this issue. It was J.D. vance, Donald Trump, Cash Patel, who for the last four years beat the hell out of this drum because we were the deep state, supposedly, and we were hiding a cabal of pedophiles. We all thought it was absurd. So now you get into office and to Sean's point, you're like, nothing to see here. We're like, okay, we're going to have some fun with this, Sean.

[Sean]

I will say I just beyond Bill Clinton and Larry Summers, I do wonder how many other people, especially big dollar donor type CEO types are on. No, I mean, I'm not saying, but like this, this, this could, I think, have an interesting take. Not just on, we think about donors, market forces. I mean, there's a lot of ramifications that I think could come out of this thing.

[Dan]

There are a lot of people probably not sleeping well in my neighborhood on the Upper east side right now.

[Host]

Will the Democrats trust the redaction process? Will Marjorie Taylor Greene trust the redaction process?

[Dan]

No, because conspiracy theories need oxygen. So they'll just, I also think, I.

[Sean]

Mean, here's the deal. We saw this last week with that Drew Frey email. When enough people have seen it, who's the whose name is being redacted or whatever it is, it will come out and enough dots are able to connect where it's like, okay, that person, that's Professor Plum and the last thing.

[Host]

But isn't it incredible that people had had and had seen Jeffrey Epstein's email saying Trump's a dog that didn't bark and Trump knew about this stuff and that never came out till just now? Isn't that suggest there might be explosive stuff that's never come out?

[Sean]

You know, that's what I'm saying, though.

[Host]

Even though the Biden, the Justice Department saw it.

[Sean]

Well, although it's not just that there's, there's trials that Epstein went out and you got to wonder why wouldn't he have leveraged some of that, that intel at that point?

[Caller Arjun]

Yeah.

[Host]

All right. Over the weekend, some important journalism was done on the administration search for general solutions on affordability, specifically on health care. And they're finding what the Biden folks did, which not easy even for a president to pull any levers to deal with inflation even in the medium term, let alone in the short term. Over the weekend, the president people talked about a lot on the Sunday shows. Here's Kevin Hassett this morning on Squawk Box talking about inflation and prices. 121, please.

[Dan]

The president is constantly saying prices have come down now. Inflation is still 3%, it's still too high now, oil prices, energy prices, there are certain things where they have come down. But when you keep saying prices are falling, that's not true because inflation is still the 3% is on top of all the inflation we had during the Biden years. So we got all that inflation plus an additional 3%. And we should, I think you should.

[Kevin Hassett]

Admit that a more, a more precise way to say it, though, Joe, is that purchasing power has gone up. So real wages, that's w divided by for our technical people in the audience, have gone up by about twelve hundred dollars this year. So the way to think about it is that we've dug a $3,000 hole because of Biden policies and we've gained $1200 on the way out already, which should give you a great deal of hope for the future that the wage increases that we're seeing will continue. And even if inflation stays positive, make it so that people feel way better when they go to the grocery store and to buy a car.

[Dan]

All right.

[Host]

Last night, the president talked about Thanksgiving, and it was less in the mode of I feel your pain, we're here to help and more in the mode of happy days are here again.

[President Trump]

Go to Walmart and other companies. And in every case, it's about 25% that a meal, a Thanksgiving meal and surroundings are 25% lower than it was under the Biden administration. That's a big fact. And that comes from Walmart and others that do that. Any questions?

[Host]

All right. Now we're going to play a very long sound bite from the president talking about health care. It's long, but it's instructive to see where his mindset is. A note in particular, he acknowledges that when he threw off the idea of paying people directly rather than paying insurance companies to support their premium payments and their or their health care payments, that he acknowledged that he did it cavalierly.

[Sean]

Are you negotiating with lawmakers on health care ahead of a vote next month?

[President Trump]

Negotiating with lawmakers, and I've had personal talks with some Democrats. I can't tell you who they are. I just don't want to do that. It's not fair to them about paying large amounts of dollars back to the people. You know, this was my idea. It came up during that, you know, oftentimes in under times of stress like the shutdown, you come up with great ideas that you wouldn't have thought of before. The insurance companies are making a fortune. Their stock is up over 1000% over a short period of time. They are taking in hundreds of billions of dollars and they're not really putting it back. Certainly not like they should. So when I see this and when I've seen this over the last pretty short period of time, I said, why do we, why don't we just pay this money directly to the people of our country and let them buy their own health insurance? And you know, I made that statement and I made it a little bit cavalierly, but it sounded good and everybody has picked up, including Democrats. And I am talking to some Democrats right now about doing that. People love it. We're going to take the money. Well, if it gets approved, we're going to take the money, we're going to pay it back to the people of our country to go out and buy health insurance. Now they could put it in a health account. We can do it a lot of different ways. But they buy their own health insurance. They can negotiate price and it's going to be locked. So they can't go out and buy a Cadillac. They could go out and buy health insurance.

[Host]

So we talked about this extensively last week. The administration searched for solutions on affordability generally on health care specifically. We'll keep talking about it because up through the State of the Union early next year, this is a big focus of the White House, a big focus of congressional Republicans. They know what the data says regarding public opinion. Sean, where are we headed? What are the solutions? We'll see. We saw the tariffs coming off on some, some agricultural products, but where are we headed? What are the big building blocks of the State of the Union affordability platform going to be?

[Sean]

Well, I think you're going to have everything. It'll be health care, there'll be homeownership. What we're doing to, there'll be something on homeownership, whether it's interest rates or the Pulte 50 year deal. I mean some version of that. There's going to be a lot of things where the President is just walking through different aspects of life, probably education costs as well. On health care, again, I think it's, that's almost like a second bucket. There is an affordability piece to that. They'll definitely talk about prescription drugs and how they're taking them down through the Trump Rx plan. But I do think healthcare is its own separate animal. Yes, it's about cost, but there's so many other issues in that that that will probably get its own little two pager of, of action. And I think if you think about what we talked about last week, this is where it's going. The ball is bouncing towards expanded medical savings accounts where there'll be Greater and probably deductibility and expansion of it where there'll be more rollover in them. The idea, you know, to be able to go in and say, I can do this, I can buy this, but now I get to negotiate the cost of it. Whether or not you. Again, part of it that I want to be clear on is that's where I think there's the greatest amount of consensus between Barrasso, the whip, who's also a doctor, Cassidy, Trump, a lot of the other players in this, you know, even Oz talking about it a little over the weekend. But you're staying to see a broad consensus. That's the one place where Republicans can agree on. And I think you could get some Democrats on board as well.

[Host]

Dan, what's the, your party's affordability agenda?

[Dan]

I mean, right now it's extend the ACA credits. I mean, just say stay focused on the here and now. Right? That is an opportunity to make a difference in the real lives of real people. What the health savings accounts are a joke. Who are you negotiating with?

[Sean]

Oh, I don't.

[Dan]

Five million people negotiating with health insurers. No, no, no, no, no.

[Sean]

But good luck with that. The difference is, is that when you have a health savings account and you, you are approaching a doctor and I mean, I've literally done this myself and you walk in and not, not with an account, but with my own. Do you know, when I walked in, I said, hey, look, this is what I can afford. You think about a lot of the, what you deal with in healthcare. And I'm not talking about going in to see your primary care physician, but when you go in to see where a lot of stuff in the dent in, in sort of the whole dental area, some of these guys who don't take insurance and you can negotiate with them and you go, I get it. That's this. I have an account that has since what's unit. What can you work with me on? So I think part of this is to allow people who as more and more of the, the health care industry gets outside of taking insurance, you can go in if you had an expanded health care health savings account. And as I said, Dan, I'm not saying this is the silver bullet. I'm just trying to say I think policy wise, this is where you're seeing consensus among Republicans because everything else is a lot more complicated.

[Dan]

Well, that's what I was going to say. I think where. And you know, the beauty of Trump is he talks out loud. So he's looking for headlines. He's Looking for something that sounds good to get him out of the vice. Right. And I think the problem is on healthcare, you actually put that before the American people. It is a complete disaster. So now they don't have health insurance. They have a few dollars in their pocket to go get their teeth, to negotiate, go find a dentist. We hear people say, I can't find a doctor. I can't. So now you're going to try to find someone, negotiate individually with that person. Meanwhile, the money that was going to buy you health insurance for catastrophic coverage and things like that is gone now. Because that's what you're doing. You're taking the money away. You're putting it into. Why can't it be an ad? That's what I'm. Okay, so now you're going to. Now you're going to extend the ACA credit, or you're not, because they can't afford the insurance. So the beauty of this is it's a joke. So you can try it. To me, all of this is like it goes back to the first term. Sean. Infrastructure Week. I mean, the great Lloyd Blankfein, you know, how's it going? Like, Trump doesn't want to talk about this. So he's still defiant on TV ads. I think the DCCC is just keeping him on a loop right now. He just keeps telling people it's all fake every week.

[Host]

Every week will be health reform week.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Host]

All right, a few more topics into your questions. Please raise your hand if you'd like to be in on the conversation. What's going on with Venezuela is just classic Trump. Massive military buildup, huge show force in the region, clearly directed as Venezuela, and yet the President says maybe it's time to talk. 112, Wall Street Journal headline, here it is. Trump says US may hold talks with Venezuela's Maduro. The President's comment came as the USS Gerald Ford arrives in the Caribbean. That's the largest ship we got. And here is the President, last night opening the door to talks on the tarmac in Palm Beach. 114, please.

[Sean]

The designation of that cartel associated with Maduro.

[Host]

Does that mean that the US Government.

[Sean]

Can target Maduro's assets or infrastructure inside Venezuela?

[President Trump]

It allows us to do that, but we haven't said we're going to do that. And we may be discussing. We may be having some discussions with Maduro, and we see how that turns out. They would like. They would like to talk.

[Host]

And the US Is designating a Venezuelan cartel as a terrorist group. Sean, is this headed towards some sort of compromise or towards conflict.

[Sean]

So again, part of the dirty little secret that, you know, we talk about this sometimes it's not, doesn't make the news, is that, look who backs Maduro, right? Russia, China. So you've got to be very careful when you, how far you go on this and suddenly find yourself in a land war in Asia, as they say in Monty Python or Princess Bride, rather. I, I just think that there's a little bit. They're, they're, they're, they've gone as far as they want to go, probably, and now want to have a discussion about what we could do to solve it. I, so I, I have a feeling that they've, they've ramped all this up, put all the assets off the coast, made it very clear we can come in. We, you know, and, but let's talk and have a conversation. I just don't understand what it is because seemingly it's regime change. And I don't think Maduro's looking to will make any deal that would undermine that.

[Host]

That's what's confusing to me. Dan, do you think this is headed towards conciliation or conflict?

[Dan]

I think they wanted it to be conflict. They wanted it to be his Granada. I think they wanted to have a massive flex of force to kind of show the world that we can do this. But the world has changed. Think about everything we're talking about right now. Think about how people in MAGA are talking about why are we spending so much money and time focusing on overseas. You're now potentially starting a regime change war in South America. I think now the timing is terrible for them and I think they are looking for either an off ramp or a delay to try to get things back into a place. I think Trump really wants to show a massive flex of force. Yeah, he wants to take all his toys and show them off.

[Host]

Let's do these next three topics in one sentence each just to speed through to make sure we leave enough. Time and again, folks, if you got questions or comments, please raise your hand. Mbs. Sean, what's the ideal White House comms to shops headline at the end of the visit? What's the ideal headline for MBS business?

[Sean]

Saudi makes massive US Investment shows signs towards joining Abraham Accords.

[Host]

Stan?

[Dan]

Yeah, I would agree.

[Host]

Okay. President was even as there have been some more disclosures about Mr. Mamdani, his mayor elect and his policies and his associations. The president last night on the tarmac very conciliatory about the prospect of a meeting with the mayor elect. Here he is 116, please.

[President Trump]

The mayor of New York, I will say, would like to meet with us and we'll work something out, but he would like to come to Washington and meet and we'll work something out. We want to see everything work out well for New York.

[Host]

Dan, is this headed towards conflict or conciliation?

[Dan]

I think they, they, they will meet, but in the long run, they'll be both. I think they'll work together where they can because it's in both their interests, and they'll have conflict where they can because it's in both their interests.

[Host]

Sean, the conventional wisdom up early, up the election was the Republicans were going to make him the Mondami, the face of the Democratic Party and demonize him and put him in all the ads and demand every House candidate. I'm asking this honestly, not rhetorically, doesn't it take the edge off of that effort if the president's doing a friendly photo op with him?

[Sean]

Yeah, I mean, but I think the president actually cares about New York because it's, it's, you know, that's his first home, which is challenging. You're right. And I, I think how that meeting goes, I, I think the other big X factor is, does Mandami want this? Like, I, I get the sense he likes this conflict and, and I, and this once he, if Mandami plays this like, you know, you, Zielinski first meeting, you know, the equivalent of not wearing a suit, but he walks in and is smug and whatever, then, then this thing is going off the rails real quick. There's a great story in Politico today about, I didn't even realize this, it makes sense, but that the mayor of New York needs a ts, probably even higher tsdi number one. With his background and travels and associations. I, you know, I know that people were trying to play politics in the, in this or the Politico came out from a political standpoint, but I actually have a hard time thinking that this guy's going to get a, you know, would qualify for tsc.

[Host]

Yeah, he might need some reference. He might need some references.

[Dan]

I think, I think he'll be incredibly gracious to Trump. I think he wants federal funding. I think he's going to want to keep, look, he was still the mayor.

[Host]

And his base be furious, though.

[Dan]

As long as he keeps pushing on the policies that he wants, he'll, he'll. We need federal funding. He knows it.

[Host]

All right, quick, just one word answer on this one. Indiana Republican leadership basically said, no, we're not going to redistrict and get you more seats. And the White House doesn't seem to be giving up. Sean, will Indiana redistrict? Yes or no?

[Dan]

No.

[Host]

Dan.

[Dan]

No.

[Host]

Okay. The president talked about. No, no. Who's your stubborn. The president talked on the tarmac about both Tucker and about Fuentes. Let's play those back to back, please. Tucker Carlson.

[President Trump]

What role do you think Tucker Carlson.

[Host]

Should play in the Republican Party, the conservative movement?

[President Trump]

Well, I found him to be good. I mean, he said good things about me over the years. I think he's good. We've had some good interviews. I did an interview with him. We had 300 million hits. You know that. Look, I can't tell him. Will you let me finish my statement? You are the worst. You're with Bloomberg, right? You are the worst. I don't know why they even have you. We've had some great interviews with Tucker Carlson, but you can't tell him who to interview. I mean, if he wants to interview Nick Fuentes, I don't know much about him, but if he wants to do it, get the word out, let him. You know, people have to decide, ultimately, people have to decide.

[Host]

It. With Nick Fuentes at Mar a Lago.

[President Trump]

A few years ago, what role should.

[Host]

He play in the conservative movement?

[President Trump]

Well, I didn't know he was coming. And he was with, as, you know, somebody, Kanye. And Kanye asked if he could have dinner and he brought Nick. I didn't know Nick at the time. And he did, aka Mr. Fuentes, with a few other people. He brought a few people with him. Meeting people, talking to people, like, for somebody like Tucker, that's what they do. You know, people are controversial. Some are, some aren't. I'm not controversial, so I like it that way.

[Host]

Dan, what's the next beat in this story?

[Dan]

Well, and there's two. There's the how does this affect Trump? But the real issue now is J.D. vance, because that's the future. And Trump, in his own kind of clumsy, awkward way, can dog whistle with the best of them. But can J.D. vance dog whistle? And what I mean by that is, can you flirt with the white nationalists and the Nick Fuentes crowd to keep them in your camp? Trump's always been able to do this, even though he just kind of does it out loud in front of everybody. Look, if I'm a reporter, I would go up now and ask J.D. vance, who's had a lot to say about Nick Fuentes, do you agree with Donald Trump? Do you agree that it's good to talk to all these different People, it's good to have these dialogues went as has talked about ushavance in not very nice terms. This is going to be really fascinating. And then we're going to get to Ted Cruz coming up here.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dan]

There are going to be others who are going to take the other side of this.

[Host]

Yeah. Sean, what's the next beat in the story?

[Sean]

I think the next beat depends. I mean, I feel like the story has been waning and so unless something keeps it alive, whether to dance point, if somebody goes up, makes a big deal with Vance about this, than maybe. But like, I, I just don't see. I think it mattered to some people. Clearly, when, you know, Tucker did the interview, I just don't. It hasn't sustained itself as a problem within the, the movement. So I, I just, I've not really. I think for some people this was huge. Not so much for everyone else.

[Dan]

Don't you? I mean, I respectfully kind of disagree. Isn't that why Trump finally had the top talk? Because it's not, it's not, it's not. This is swirling still within the, within the MAGA movement.

[Sean]

But as I've said before, there's a difference between things that you proactively bring up and stuff that you respond to. And Trump was responding there. And to your point, he just, he wanted to punt on it, but like, he wasn't bringing that up.

[Dan]

I mean, he didn't punt. He, he answered it.

[Host]

People, people, people say to me all the time, Tucker's on the outs. Tucker's. Tucker's not welcome at the White House. Tucker's not in good standing. And I tell them, no, that's just not true. And you saw it there. Leaving Fuentes aside, leaving Vance aside, the president was very warm towards Tucker. And that's not. And that's not. It shouldn't surprise people and all of you who keep telling me Tucker's on the ads, Tucker's lost his influence. There are a lot of people who are very mad at Tucker. Tucker's burned a lot of bridges with a lot of people, but not with that guy.

[Sean]

Well, and remember, that goes back to something that I sort of, when people say fill in the blank is not whatever. There's a difference between some of the senior White House staff and the president himself. And at the end of the day, there is a difference there. And that matters who, who actually you're in good with. And I'd always rather be in good with the boss.

[Host]

Yeah. And not just the boss, but his number two, Tucker's son works for the vice president and was attacked over the weekend. And the vice president was very aggressive in defending Tucker's son, who's very popular in that office. He's very well liked. And so those two guys seem fine with Tucker currently, even though, again, many people are not, including Ted Cruz. Last two topics, then to your questions. Please raise your hand if you want to get in the conversation. If you've never raised your hand today, it'd be a good day to do it. Ted Cruz. Axios correctly points that Ted Cruz has taken a position on a number of things. First Amendment issues related to the fcc on Tucker and several other things.

[Dan]

Israel.

[Host]

Israel, that Axios says is setting the stage for 2028. I don't agree that he's going to run against the article kind of suggests he'll run against the vice President. I don't believe he will. That's my, that's my current sense of things. Dan, if Ted Cruz did run, what would his strategy be to take the nomination away from J.D. vance?

[Dan]

Well, it's, it's all the things that we just talked about. And I go back to if Donald Trump is at 95% with Republic, then there's nothing to talk about. If, if there is a slow splintering and there's a little bit of a crack, I think he tries to get to his right on some issues and he tries to say he's too far right on, on other issues. We just talked about Israel. We talked about speech. If Vance is tied to Trump, it's going to be a problem.

[Host]

Sean, that might work with some donors, but does that work with voters in the Republican nomination process?

[Dan]

No.

[Sean]

I mean, I think the only strategy that for a Ted Cruz is to basically be that like NASCAR number two car where you're just drafting behind the number one car and hoping that something happens to the number one car. And you're, I mean, like, he, I don't think that it's, respectfully, it's not a real challenge. If, if the numbers are as Dan laid them out, where Trump is still plus 90% with the Republican base, then it is JD's a hundred percent of the time. And, and the only issue is that if he, Trump, were to turn on him, if JD decided for whatever personal reasons he didn't want to seek it, then, then Cruz, Ted would be there in the wings waiting. But yeah, and I apologize for everyone if, if that NASCAR analogy was horrible.

[Dan]

That's a great one.

[Sean]

No, no. Well, no, I can't tell if I don't watch nascar.

[Host]

I just guess the chat.

[Sean]

All right.

[Host]

Lastly, Politico yesterday, big story about JD About Gavin Newsom being the frontrunner. So they caught up to this program a couple weeks late. That's fine. And it's really interesting interview that Gavin Newsom did with Jonathan Martin of Politico. If you haven't read it, you're interested in 2028. Read it. I thought the article was right on point in several things, including Newsom's desire to suck up to the establishment press, which George Bush did in 2000 very effectively. It helps you win the nomination even of the Republican Party, but certainly the Democratic Party even now with all the hostility to suck up the establishment press. And Gavin Newsom displayed his, his wares on that. But it kind of gave short shrift, I thought, to some super important things that will be both positive and negative for potential Newsom campaign. So, guys, I'm going to ask you to start the week the same question I was asking last week. Is anybody going to try to slow this down or are people just going to hope that he comes down by his own weight or that there's time to, to bring him back, back to earth later? Will anyone make a move against this guy in the foreseeable future to keep him from consolidating what is now? I believe a very, very big edge doesn't mean he'll be the nominee, but he's got a very big edge and no one's trying to slow him down. That I see. Dan.

[Dan]

I don't think anyone will right now. I think that story ended with a little bit of an Achilles, which is that he is not. He doesn't really kind of potentially know what he, who he really is, which is something that we've always talked about. And I think the reason you don't panic yet if you're another 20, 28 or is he is not pulling away in the polls. Kamala Harris still leads him or is right next to him in most things. Right. He's hovering around 21%, which is better than the 7% that he was at. If he gets to 35% over the next six months or you start seeing that movement, then you have a problem. But I think right now he, look, he's winning over the punditry. He's won over X. He's won over the consultant class. If I start seeing Nevada, South Carolina, you know, states where he leads Michigan then. But right now you don't see it anywhere. You just don't.

[Sean]

Yeah, there's two things here. One is it is early. So you always have to wonder if you're someone on the outside, does he peak too early? Number two is that it's, then it comes back to the so who, right. I look at like Booker or Whitman. I mean it's like, what are you going to do? Go out? I mean the reason that, that Newsom has been successful is because he has engaged and he has engaged on social media and random platforms and he said stuff in an engaging way. He's taken on Trump and it's been cute and effective. I mean like he's gotten the attention. The, the point of all this is to say that there's nobody else except for a guy like Ro Khanna who's actually willing to mix it up. I mean, right. And, and so you've got Rahm, I think, who will go like, hey, I'll just raise a boatload of money and then we'll drop a bunch of oppo on the guy. Like you have to have a tactic. And so right now throwing a random punch is not a smart move.

[Dan]

Well, and in the last 50 years, has any Democrat in an open primary gone wire to wire? Never. So everyone's looking at Hillary in 08, Mondale was 84. Well, he was coming off. Oh, okay, fine. So 40 years ago. So I said 50. I should have said 40. The history of our party, we are not like George W. Bush where everyone's like, let's get on the battleship and ride. We tend to look for other people. We look for underdogs. We look for kind of the.

[Host]

Who'd you think the Democratic front runner was at the start of 2004, Dan?

[Dan]

Hillary Clinton?

[Host]

Well, no, but of candidates who entered.

[Dan]

The race, nobody knew they were the seven doors, as everyone called him. I mean, look, I was intimately involved in that. We all thought Kerry was serious, but everybody was worried about Massachusetts and that he wouldn't, didn't really know what he.

[Host]

Stood, but he, but he kind of was wire to wire.

[Dan]

I'm just quibbling with no Howard Dean. Absolutely. That fall was seen as, as he, he worked up, collapsed.

[Host]

I, when I say wire to wire, I just meant the same person who was the front runner ends up winning the nomination. Nobody, nobody has no near death experiences. Even George Bush did in 2000.

[Dan]

Yeah, but George Bush had like a two week out between North Carolina and South Carolina. Kerry had like a five, six months.

[Host]

Where he almost same phenomena. It's the same phenomena. Nobody, nobody has no bumpy moments.

[Dan]

Yeah, Kerry did not go, I mean, I, I, I, he was, my point.

[Host]

Is he was the, he was to the extent there was a front runner. He was the front runner and then he ended up with the nomination. All right, quick word from a sponsor and then. And then your questions. Thank you for your patience. Maybe you've worked out a little hard over the weekend like some of us and have an injury and you need some relief. Well, the products from CB Distillery can help you there. They can also help you get a good night's sleep. 25% discount on CB Distillery products right now go to CBDistillery.com promo code 2 WMM. High quality, clean ingredients, no fillers, premium CBD. Over 2 million people have used the products from CB Distillery. And so if you're ready for better sleep, less stress and feeling good in your own skin again, or dealing with a nagging injury, go to cbdistillery.com, promo code 2 WMM. 25% off your entire order. An opportunity to sleep better, feel better, and try something again that has worked for millions. If you've never tried it before, here's your chance. 25% off cbdistillery.com, promo code 2 wmmcb.

[Sponsor Voice 2]

Distillery.Com wherever bud goes, his harmonica goes with him. It's a pocket full of soul. Now he's living with prostate cancer. He asked his doctor about XTANDI Enzalutamide XTANDI, 40 milligram tablets Treats Men with prostate cancer that has spread to other parts of the body and responds to a medical or surgical treatment to lower testosterone. Xtandi may cause serious side seizure, a brain condition called press allergic reactions, heart disease that can lead to death, falls and bone fractures, swallowing problems or choking that can lead to death. Stop Xtandi and get medical help at once. If your face, tongue, lip or throat start swelling, tell your doctor at once. If you faint, have a seizure, quickly worsening headache, decreased alertness, confusion, vision problems, chest pain or discomfort or shortness of breath. Xtandi can cause harm to an unborn baby or miscarriage. Use birth control during and three months after Xtandi. Common side effects include muscle and joint pain, feeling unusually tired, hot flashes, constipation, less appetite, diarrhea, high blood pressure, bleeding, falls, fractures and headache. Talk to your doctor and visit xtandi.com.

[Host]

Thank you for your attention.

[Dan]

To that matter, just one thing because we forgot to just I just want to flash it for people. Can we just show 119 really quick? Somebody leaked over the weekend that they did scores of the advertisements around the California proposition stuff and that the ad that tested the absolute best was the AOC ad. You always ask yourself, who has the incentive to get this out there? Why would they be doing it? We always say that Newsom is top tier. I have kept saying AOC is in the top tier. Someone wanted to remind people, look who. Look who tested better in his own state.

[Host]

I'm not sure it's true that it tested best. I'll say that. I'll say that.

[Sean]

But even if it's not the idea that they're making it very clear that.

[Dan]

Yeah, that is like.

[Host]

I agree, I agree.

[Dan]

Long way to go.

[Host]

Didn't want to give him credit for something I don't think is necessarily true. Anyway, time for your questions.

[Sean]

By the way, I actually think it's true. I actually. I mean, there's.

[Host]

There's two names that. That I always say in a certain way based on, uh, drama. Stella. How do you guys say the name? Stella? Like from Streetcar. He says Stella, right? You know, talking about.

[Dan]

Okay, I have no idea.

[Host]

And then Christopher, because of Michael Imperiala, who lives in my neighborhood, I see him all the time. And even though all of you now think of him as White Lotus, he is from the Sopranos. So I say long wind up to bring in Christopher. Thank you for being here. Thank you for wearing that hat. Thank you for being part of Two Way. Tell us where you are and what's on your mind, Christopher.

[Caller Christopher]

I'm in Bradenton, Florida, on the beautiful sun coast in Florida. The reason what's on my mind first is. Sean, put your glasses on. I wanted to share a quick story of the material that's sitting behind me. It's about the 1948 World Series. I'll make this short. My father and mother went to most of the weekend games, took the bus up from Connecticut. When they got in the World Series, he couldn't get a ticket. He wrote Tom Yawkey, the owner at that time, a pretty nasty letter. And about three or four days later, the local AP reporter showed up at his workplace with tickets for the games. And I'm going to show you kind of quick what's going on here. And airline tickets for all the home games for the series.

[Host]

Incredible.

[Caller Christopher]

I use that as my. Anytime I find a young person, or actually any person is tentative, he taught me the lesson, if you don't ask, the answer is always no.

[Host]

Right.

[Caller Christopher]

So I wanted to share that with Sean because. Well, that for the reason I've wanted to for a while, but I've been nervous to call in. And so, Sean, this is for you.

[Sean]

I. I appreciate that, and I will similarly use that tactic with, with Mr. Henry. Now, when I want to go to the, I will say to John Henry, there is a track record for an owner flying somebody up and giving them tickets.

[Dan]

You don't want tickets. You want his plane is what you want.

[Caller Christopher]

The funny thing is, is the airline tickets were cheaper than the ticket to the game.

[Host]

Yeah, that's awesome.

[Caller Christopher]

Which is interesting. Anyway, I guess my quick question or comment is I voted for Trump three times, actually, I voted against Hillary, and then I voted for Trump twice. And after he gets elected, sometimes I get disappointed because he can't seem to, I think he focuses behind the scene, but he doesn't focus in public enough. And I guess I wanted to know your thoughts on that.

[Host]

Thank you, Christopher, for all that.

[Sean]

Sean, Look, I mean, the funny part about this, I remember early on in a point where, in the 2016, right after 2016, when the campaign, in between some stuff and we were going back and forth on something, and I, I was very adamant about one particular point and he disagreed with me. And at the end of the whole thing, he was right, I mean, like it. And I, I, I, he said, he kind of made a joke at one point and I just said it was sort of one of those moments we realized his instinct on a lot of issues is a lot better than a lot of the pundits and the pros. And so every time I second guessed him, I realized his track record on understanding where the ball is going and what people think is probably a lot better than most of the pundits. And so you look at a guy like that and you go, yeah, you're the guy who everyone doubted in the primaries, in the general elections, and you've won every time. So, as I said, I sort of have realized that sometimes the easy, reflexive thing for a lot of people like me to do is say, gosh, why is he doing that? And then when you really look at it the long term, you go, you know, he actually knows exactly what he's doing. And so I don't always agree with every tactic. But then again, at the end of the day, you look at the track record and you go, he's won and he's done it his way.

[Dan]

I think the challenge is this is a guy who wears a hat or likes a hat that says Trump was right about everything, and he just does not. He cannot bring himself to focus on, let's say, affordability, where he is struggling. So he just changes the subject. Now, to Sean's point, it might be a good tactic in the long run. If a year and a half from now, the economy turns around and he can just kind of say, see, I told you. Just you had to give me a lot more time. The problem is people don't like leaders who keep telling them they're wrong. I mean, see, Joe Biden just doesn't go over very well.

[Sean]

Christopher, do you have kids?

[Caller Arjun]

I do.

[Caller Christopher]

Two sons.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Sean]

I was just gonna ask if neither one of them wants the stuff behind you. I'll send you.

[Caller Christopher]

This is actually copies of all the stuff the guy that did this for me. And all the originals are medically sealed and stored away somewhere. So that's how important it is to me.

[Host]

Christopher, thank you for coming. Thank you for sharing the sock stuff. And thanks.

[Caller Christopher]

I'm glad I got on this time.

[Host]

Thank you for being part of two way grateful to you. All right, sir, unmute, if you would. Is your name correctly pronounced Arjun? Arjun.

[Caller Arjun]

Arjun's good.

[Host]

Arjun, welcome in. Arjun. Thank you for being here. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind. For Dan and for Sean, I'm calling.

[Caller Arjun]

In from Ottawa, Canada.

[Host]

Welcome in, sir.

[Caller Arjun]

And I'd like to start by saying that your president has really thrown a wrench into our politics. And, well, we've got sort of situation here that. I mean, I don't personally like it, but it is what it is. My question is really about these files that we're talking about. There's this vote tomorrow. If you'd asked me a couple months ago what I think about whether these files should be released, I would say, yeah, you got to release them. But especially seeing how Cash Patel has changed since before the election and now after in this position, it worries me that there's something particularly explosive in these files that could really disrupt American. But also more than American politics, We know at least that one more country's involved, Great Britain. I know that my president has been seen with Ghislaine Maxwell, like, during the election, pictures were floating around. So at least two other countries are involved. And so my. My question is, like, if how exactly does the government plan to keep the extremes at bay, like the Fuentes types and the AOC types.

[Host]

Great question.

[Caller Arjun]

How do you keep those people.

[Host]

Great question, Dan. How do we keep this from causing explosions that could have unintended consequences?

[Dan]

You raise a great point. I had not thought about that. Obviously, Prince Andrew, there's been a lot of stuff in the news about all of his involvement, but in terms of business leaders in other countries, government figures, I'm not sure how you can Contain that. And I'm not sure how you can contain the Internet and social media because particularly it is likely, as we said earlier, there will be redactions that is going to spin people off, as Sean was alluding to. People will try to connect dots, what's public, who's been rumored, depending on the level of detail around the name that's redacted. So unfortunately, this is one of those things where people are going to have to use their own judgment and try to rely on what's fact and what's speculation. But it's, it's, I don't see how you can, how any country or person can contain this.

[Host]

Sean?

[Sean]

Yeah, look, I'm going to tell you that we're pulling the pin out of the grenade and I, I totally agree with you. This is what I was asking earlier. You're suddenly going to have people, politicians, you know, athletes, celebrities, financiers, mega donors. And I, I just, I think you're bringing up a really interesting point and it'll be interesting. I should, I was going to say funny, but I'm not sure it's funny. I think it's going to be pretty sad. That being said, I just want to be clear. I, I, I do think that, like, you know, people are going to have a lot of explaining to do. And, and this is interesting. I saw this interview with Katie Couric with Andy Cohen, and she was trying to explain how she didn't recognize that all of the girls when she went over to Epstein's were like 8, you know, 14 years old. And she said, I should have done more due diligence. It's kind of pathetic the way they're letting her off the hook, but there's going to be a lot of people with a lot of explaining to do probably in the next seven to 10 days. And to Mark's point, I do think when you're talking about that level of volume of documents and emails and there's going to be stuff out there that nobody fully appreciated until it gets out and who starts to go through it. The one other thing, and I'll give Jessica Reed Kraus some credit from House and Habit, getting these things released out of context is what the problem is, that people are picking out one email and saying, oh, did you read this? And you know, there might have been a trail that goes back to explain a little, but, but the context is going to get missed because of the volume. And again, that's going to cause a lot of heartache to a lot of people.

[Host]

Arjun, thank you Very much. Great question. And there's plenty of people who associate with Jeffrey Epstein who had nothing to do with his crimes. Plenty. But their names may now come out, and they're gonna have.

[Sean]

You know what's funny, Marco? I. There's one question. I know we're tight on time. I was thinking about this in context, not just of, like, a lot of what's coming out in Epstein is isn't that you did something bad, but you didn't say something. Right. And so the question becomes, I think, what's going to be interesting because it's sort of like there are bad people that we all know right now. Some people maybe do nefarious things, are bad in business or are shady in some way. And so the question always becomes to me, is it your obligation if you're a public figure, to call somebody out? Because there's going to be a lot of people, they're going to say, yeah, you never did anything, but you must have known. And that's where I think the interesting thing is going to play out in the next couple of weeks. There are going to be a lot of people that were said. But you're in the email. How did you not know this? How come you never said anything? I think that's an interesting question.

[Host]

Yeah. And I can tell you there are a lot of people associated with him who did not know. A New York City police officer was shot this morning in Brownsville here in New York City. And here's the tweet from the mayor elect, my daughter, with the NYPD officer who was shot this morning in Brownsville. And I'm praying for his recovery. I'm grateful to law enforcement for their quick response, and I will continue to monitor the situation as it develops. Not everyone who's a skeptic of the mayor elect would have expected such a quick and on point response. So we'll continue.

[Dan]

And by the way, he met with the NYPD commissioner this weekend, said he asked her to stay. She has not said anything yet.

[Host]

I think he revealed he spoke to her this weekend. I don't know that the talk was actually this weekend. Just to clarify.

[Dan]

Oh, I thought they. Okay, all right, Good flag that. That might be.

[Host]

That's that's okay. But I just. I only raise it because. Because I think he met with her, you know, a little earlier. Sean, what do you have tonight?

[Sean]

Oh, well, Alan Der is going to join me for the whole show to break down. He was Jeffrey Epstein's attorney.

[Dan]

What.

[Sean]

What is out there? What do we need to know? What's the context. So if you care about this issue and what about to happen tomorrow, tune.

[Host]

In tonight at six, three two ways left. Today, two shows you're familiar with and one new one that I'm eager to tell you about. First at noon, Megan McCain, Citizen McCain. My friend Bianna Goloriga has a book you shall talk to CNN anchor. I talked to Megan about everything that's in the news. That's at noon Eastern. My guest at six o' clock on the two way tonight, former Maryland Governor Martin o' Malley also was the head of the Social Security Administration. Super bright guy and looking forward to having him on and taking your questions. And then a new program for those of you who can remain confused about what two Way is. We're not just about politics. We are going to have all manner of new shows here on different verticals. Ethan Supley is a famous actor. If you Google, you'll see you may not be familiar with his name, but you've seen him and stuff. And his new show is lifelong. It's a program new for us. The premise is simple but very serious, which is Ethan believes health is not a finish line. It's an ongoing process. He's lost a ton of weight. He's really just just gone full on in on the question of how you reset and calibrate and recommit to living a healthy life, whether it's nutrition or sleep or exercise. He's an extraordinary communicator. If you're interested in thinking about wellness in a whole new way, if you're interested in being involved in a community and a conversation like no other, about how to not just follow rules, but to have the right mindset about all of this. No shortcuts, just honest conversation about what it takes to build a healthier life. Please join Ethan tonight, 7:00 Eastern Time. And his guest, I confess I'm not familiar with Jacob Foods, but Jacob Foods knows a lot about all this. That'll be Ethan's guest tonight, talking about no BS food, about nutrition. Jacob Foods and Ethan Supley join them tonight, seven o' clock Eastern time here on two way. And we'd love to hear what you think about the program after you watch it. And the three of us, we'll be back tomorrow, 9am Eastern time next week. No two ways for me. No morning meetings and no two way tonight. So I'm warning you now, don't, don't email me Monday to ask where the show is. We'll be back the following week, but we'll be here all this week, the three of us. So please join us again tomorrow. And all this week, 9am Eastern Time, the morning meeting. Thank you all. I'll see you at 6. Have a good day.

[Dan]

It's Thanksgiving next week, people.

[Host]

I know. Believe me, I know.

[Dan]

That's why.

[Host]

Yeah, that's why it's Thanksgiving. We're off for the holiday. Off for the holiday. Have a great day everybody. We'll see you tomorrow at night.

[Dan]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half the price.

[Host]

Not half the service.

[Dan]

Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Give it a try.

[Sean]

@Mintmobile.Com Switch upfront payment of 45 for.

[Sponsor Announcer]

3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month. Required new customer offer for first 3 months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra. Cmnobile.com.