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The Morning Meeting
Why Was Republican Lauren Boebert Called Into the White House Situation Room Over the Epstein Files?
01:06:15
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- [00:01]
James Patterson
I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon. And this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacey Abrams.
- [00:25]
Mark Halperin
Yay.
- [00:26]
James Patterson
BJ Novak.
- [00:27]
Mark Halperin
Yay.
- [00:28]
James Patterson
Kathy Bates. Dolly Parton, Josh Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows? Maybe he'll show up. Hungry dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless, obsessive, compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [00:59]
Dan
This is it. The world as you know it is over. Completely done.
- [01:03]
Sean
It's not about to be over.
- [01:06]
Ray Marcano
It's over.
- [01:07]
Sean
Some of the scientists who helped build AI are now sounding the alarm. I was selling AI as a great thing for decades and I was wrong.
- [01:19]
Dan
I was wrong.
- [01:20]
Mark Halperin
There is a longer term existential threat.
- [01:22]
Sean
That will arise when we create digital.
- [01:24]
Mark Halperin
Beings that are more intelligent than ourselves.
- [01:27]
Sean
We have no idea whether we can stay in control. While others say that AI will usher in unfathomable abundance, I've always believed that it's going to be the most important.
- [01:37]
Mark Halperin
Invention that humanity will ever make. This really will be a world of abundance.
- [01:41]
Sean
And among these fears and these fantasies, we seek the story of our future. Listen to the last invention on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:00]
Mark Halperin
Luxury. Good morning everyone. Thank you for catching me in mid sentence. This is the morning meeting. I'm Mark Halperin with Dan and Sean programs based on the morning meetings held by the network news divisions run through the day. Thank you for being here. We have lots to tell you about. Always forward looking in the aftermath of the shutdown and the release of the Epstein file. Some new polling on the President and some look at not one, not two, not three, but four prospective 2028 candidates. We have that all for you and more. Gentlemen, I couldn't help but notice you're both wearing fairway and green today.
- [02:35]
Dan
Sure are.
- [02:36]
Mark Halperin
And it's a big day for our our colleagues over at Fairway and Green tonight two way tonight seven six to seven at seven Eastern time right after. I'll be live from the showroom in midtown Manhattan with our colleagues over there and we'll tell you how to do all your Christmas shopping tonight in 30 minutes. Clients, customers, big Families join me and our friends from Fairway and Green, 7 o' clock Eastern Time. Live from there, three of you will be eligible to win a $250 gift certificate to to purchase products on the site. Yeah, you're eligible, Sean, so you can stay on after the regular episode of two way tonight. By the way, our guests on two Way tonight.
- [03:16]
Dan
Yeah, you got a good one.
- [03:18]
Mark Halperin
Kristen Davison and Ashley Etienne, two of the smartest people we know, two experienced political veterans even though they look like teenagers, but young ladies who are very smart, very experienced, they'll join me 6 to 7 then 7, 7:30. Stay on or just join at 7. And if you need to buy like 30 holiday presents, 25, 5, however many you need to buy, boom, boom, boom. We will help you buy. If you're looking for premium gifts for your folks. Dan, that's one of my favorite of your pieces. Remind with that what that is.
- [03:45]
Dan
Well, I call it purple Fairway and Green calls it something else, but it's a nice lilac. It's great.
- [03:53]
Mark Halperin
Why are you dressed like it's 70 degrees, Sean?
- [03:57]
Sean
Because I got back yesterday late from LA and I didn't want to so I, it was just the easiest thing and I love this polo. So I was like let's be simple and easy.
- [04:09]
Dan
You're still on that yesterday. Have you changed?
- [04:12]
Sean
Well, no, actually yesterday I wore the gray vest. Thank you. I actually as I was packing, I was like wait, what did I. But thank you.
- [04:21]
Dan
There's anything wrong with that. But I mean.
- [04:23]
Sean
Yeah, yeah. But actually I did wear this on the plane. So you're right in that sense.
- [04:28]
Mark Halperin
All right, again, 7:00 clock tonight evening with Fairway and green. Jack Lessing, president some of golf brands. Billy Dratty, creative director at Summit Golf and also the founder of his own beat Ratty brand that makes incredible stuff. Join the three of us. We'll show you some products and then you'll have a chance to do all your Christmas shopping right then and there. And it will, it'll. You'll, you'll be thanking us. So go right now. If you want to register to be able to talk to us and, and ask questions and be part of the meeting, go to two way.com two way tv fairway and sign up. And again, three of you will win 250, 250 gift certificates to be part of the program. All right.
- [05:09]
Sean
Is that, is that because you guys just don't want to watch the jets lose to the Patriots tonight? You need something to. I just want.
- [05:18]
Mark Halperin
We're the equivalent of the pregame. Because that thing.
- [05:20]
Dan
Yeah, yeah, right. Exactly.
- [05:21]
Sean
All right. You're right. Yeah.
- [05:22]
Mark Halperin
Warmed up 7:00 clock tonight.
- [05:25]
James Patterson
I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon. And this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacey Abrams. Yay. BJ Novak.
- [05:51]
Dan
Yay.
- [05:52]
James Patterson
Kathy Bates, Dolly Parton, Josh Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows, Maybe he'll show up. Hungry Dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless, obsessive compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [06:16]
Sean
Foreign.
- [06:22]
Mark Halperin
The day book and then. And then I'll go back. I know I'm skipping around here, but here's the daybook. The President doesn't have much on his public schedule today. Intelligence briefing at 11:15 and then 2:00', clock, East Room, pre credentialed media with the first lady signing an executive order and the betting is he'll take questions at that. I'm not why people are so confident he will, but he will. He did not take questions last night of the he almost did, but then he didn't at the signing of the continuing resolution. J.D. vance is doing an interview with Sean Hannity today. I assume pre tape not live at 9. That would be crazy. But so we'll see if clips get released during the day. But that'll unspool at 9:00'. Clock. The first lady event with the President. It's fostering the future. That's what it's called, fostering the future. And Nancy Pelosi during our program here 9:30 is having a press conference with some of her colleagues to talk about energy and the climate crisis. And then there'll be lots of members on tv. I can assure you of that. So we're going to talk about the aftermath of the shutdown in a second. But a quick word from another sponsor. Our friends at Chef IQ 30 off go to chefiq.com promo code 2WMM 2WMM to enjoy a more peaceful Thanksgiving. Use their stuff to not have to worry about overcooking or undercooking the turkey with their Chef IQ Sense Wireless cooking thermometer takes the guesswork away. No guessing. Guessing can Be fun. But not when it comes to your turkey. It's got to reach a certain temperature to be cooked well, but you don't overcook it. So you can sit back and relax and just check your phone on occasion and it'll tell you what you need to do, when to flip it, take it off the heat, even how long to leave it rest after cooking. It works with steaks, chicken, fish, probably pop tarts too. Yeah. Although that, that's not on here, but Sean's got it right there. You got it right there. Yeah.
- [08:13]
Sean
This is what it comes. This is what.
- [08:14]
Dan
I am so embarrassed. That package came like earlier this week. I had no idea. I was asking the kids, like, who ordered this? I did too.
- [08:22]
Sean
I was checking order.
- [08:24]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. Anyway, like, like Sean and Dan. But when yours comes, you'll know what you ordered. Go to chefiq.comchefiq.com promo code two WMM 30% off. All right, gentlemen. Shut down Aftermath a lot of conversation about health care. And Politico is reporting today that Speaker Johnson and the whip operation plans to canvas House Republicans to see what's on their mind about health care over the next few weeks, whether they want to work with Democrats perhaps to come up with a bipartisan plan, or I'd say more likely come up with a plan of their own. And then it says also that the White House is doing also a lot of internal consultation and presumably also with Republicans on the Hill about what they want to do on healthcare. And here's what I consider to be the money quote, a blind quote from a White House or what they describe as a person close to the White House. I don't know exactly what that means, but that's how they describe them. And here's what that person says. I think the White House understands one of the sub issues, excuse me, of 2018, was that the Democrats used against the Republicans was that we were going to take away their Obamacare. That's a non starter now. Now you can't get rid of it. What you're wanting to try to do is fix it. What you're wanting to try to do is fix it. So 105, please. Oh, that is 105, by the way.
- [09:48]
Sean
That reeks of like K Street lobbyists trying to, I mean like that, that kind of quote just gives away somebody who's not well.
- [09:57]
Mark Halperin
But Sean, So here's. So, okay, I don't know about that. Here's, here's my question to you, Sean. What will emerge? What kind of thing will emerge and will and how Will that thing talk about Obamacare from these consultations amongst Republicans over the next few weeks?
- [10:14]
Sean
So in my conversations with members, there's no consensus at all. There are large, like literally like 50,000. Like we need more competition. We need. And I'm like, okay, so like walk. And I try to pull the thread and then it stops. It's like, got to go. I think that's the problem the President wants. You hear him talking about giving people more money like an HSA type of model. I think you're going to hear a lot of people on board on that. I could see a construct where you basically allow the buildup of an HSA type of competition and do something where enhanced HSAs with a tax write off or something, which is a good start because again to that quote, you can't just pull Obamacare away. We've tried that. Absent, I should say that absent a comprehensive plan, which I don't think will happen. So therefore I think what you have to do is kind of put something to the side of it and that is something that could get all the Republicans on board, which is like, hey, we can't yank away Obamacare right now, but what we can do is augment it with an enhanced HSA worth with massive write offs that you could roll over. Something like that. But so we, we say we're doing everything in accordance with our principles. I don't think the cost would be much at all because you're just allowing your expense. I mean, so you could do some stuff like that that would probably, you know, scratch the itch.
- [11:42]
Mark Halperin
Sean, you know, we have so many people who watch this program. Ordinary Americans across the fruited plane, doctors, union workers, business executive, students, but also a lot of D.C. lobbyists. And they're hanging on to every word of the two of you. So be more specific if you can. What would you bet would emerge? You laid it at it more specifically than I've seen almost anywhere else. But if you can be a little more granular, like you think there'll be an announcement by the President and the speaker and thune like here's a unified plan and what will it involve? Will involve. Will they introduce legislation? Like what, what do you think they're actually headed towards?
- [12:17]
Sean
So I think this whole fits and starts thing, we're going to have a lot of meetings. You're going to get a thousand ideas, probably 10,000 ideas. And I think one thing as I said that the President's been consistent on in terms of what his talking point is that he wants to send people Give people more choice, give them more money. So I think what. We're the one place you'll find consensus, because again, I don't. I think there's a lot of great ideas out of there. There's not enough time and there's not enough consensus to get anything done when in a, In a timetable that's realistic. Therefore, as I was saying, I think what you get is something that is Republican and conservative in principle, which is a health savings account expansion. You allow more deductibility, you allow a greater transfer of benefits so you could give it to your kid, things like that. There's some portability that you can pass it on or roll it over and allow the buildup to be bigger. I mean, more doctors are saying we're not taking insurance anymore. For those. I walked in to get an eye appointment last week. And you know, when you sit down and you do the whole, like, if you have prescription glasses, they'll do that. They put the little thing in front of you and better or worse, 1, 2, 3, 4. That now costs $65. Now, I was asking them, I've been doing this my whole life. And, and they go, yeah, it's effective now. And it wasn't. It's. It's new to everybody is what they claim. To me, maybe I was just the sucker. But my point is, is that there's a lot of things now that aren't getting covered that doctors that won't take insurance and say you fight it out. So doing something that allows people to augment their current account, I think would be smart, would help with some. It's not a. It's not a fix by any means, but it's something that I think you can get consistent consensus on on both the House and the Senate, and obviously is very consistent with what the President wants.
- [14:04]
Mark Halperin
Dan, what will your party do over the next few weeks? Simply dig in and say we want a X month or X year extension of the Affordable Care act subsidies or, Or a broader plan, would you guess?
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Dan
I think in the short run. I mean, look, it just took Sean five minutes to try to talk about that, Right? And he started by saying our party's divided.
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Sean
We.
- [14:24]
Dan
Which is what I've been saying now for months. Nope. We're going to say do an extension. Because even what Sean's talking about. So right now you go on an exchange, you choose a healthcare plan, right? You pick it. Subsidy goes into the insurer. So now you're saying you're going to give it to the person who's going to Go on, pick a plan and then they're going to send it to the insurer. Like, so you're just going to take out 10% of that that would have gone to healthcare to go to administrative costs. Now, it's a nonsensical idea. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't have the eye doctor that Sean's paying $65 to. It doesn't deal with that. I think what you are going to see is 2028 now. You are going to start to see candidates and others come forward talking about what is our fix. Right. I said it the other day. Healthcare Obamacare was the start. It got people into the system. They knew it wasn't going to be perfect. Costs are not under control. So now you're going to be talking about that. I think the problem is Trump wants a headline to say I got something, but that doesn't address the cost and voters are getting angry. So they have a problem between a real solution and a headline solution.
- [15:29]
Mark Halperin
Right.
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Sean
I will say this if I can. The last thing, Mark, is this is one of those issues that sometimes everybody initially thinks one side's going to win or lose. I would be very interested to see if we fast forward two years and you open this Pandora's box where we are. Because Democrats, the challenge that they have is do you really want to be defending Obamacare? Do you want to talk about. I mean, if your answer to everything is just extend it, that might work in the short term. But I'm not sure that you want to be on record defending a really broken system.
- [15:58]
Dan
I think the problem, Sean, is do you guys really want to create a new system? Is Trump care real? Because if all it is is the free market, good luck with that. So what is your true. And that's where we feel good. We're trying to fix it. You guys don't really want to fix it?
- [16:17]
Sean
Well, no, no, I think there's a. Dan, I would, I would. Here's what I do. I think there's a lot of desire to fix it and a lot of. But the problem is there's lack of consensus. And so getting board is the problem. And that's where I think this is going to be. Like I said, I think the only outcome on the Republican side is some augmentation based on free market principles.
- [16:38]
Mark Halperin
Best conversation I've heard about this anywhere. Thank you, gentlemen.
- [16:41]
Dan
Let's talk about Epstein, two healthcare experts.
- [16:43]
Sean
Let's keep going on healthcare.
- [16:45]
Mark Halperin
Better than I've heard on cable.
- [16:46]
Dan
Epstein, now the real stuff.
- [16:50]
Mark Halperin
So the next step Is next week there's a House vote. And I read somewhere today some people think a hundred House Republicans might vote for this. Roana, not quite as bullish, but thinks a lot might. Here he is with Mr. Massie on CNN projecting House Republican votes on the bill now that the discharge position has been filed. 107, please.
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Reporter
Ford, is that right?
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Guest
Well, I think the Speaker's concluded if you can't stop the parade, you might as well lead it. And so now he's saying, I want to have the vote. I do think that you could get 30, 40, 50 Republicans voting for it because what are we talking about? We're talking about rich and powerful men who abused young girls and told people in junior high to go recruit others to be raped or abused. That's what we're talking about. And we're saying that these victims want to expose the men who did this to them. Some of these men still have buildings named after them. Some of them still have scholarships named after them. Enough. And so I think when it's actually a vote on the House floor. Do you want these files released? Republicans and Democrats are going to vote yes.
- [17:59]
Mark Halperin
All right, let's talk about the House, then the Senate. And then I want to double back to some of the things that happened yesterday, trying to understand what they mean. Sean, how many House Republicans over under 50? How many House Republicans will vote for the bill?
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Sean
It's over 50. Yeah. I don't know. That'll hit 100.
- [18:14]
Mark Halperin
But Dan, Dan, you think it's somewhere between 50 and 100?
- [18:17]
Dan
Yes.
- [18:18]
Mark Halperin
Okay. The Senate, some people say, well, won't pass the senate. There'll be 50 votes instead of maybe not 60. Sean, will a senator filibuster that bill? Because if it's not, if it's not it's going to pass.
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Sean
I. First of all, what are the, the one thing I would say is I don't know if, if, if a discharge position petition gets any special legislative treatment in the Senate. I don't, I, I don't.
- [18:45]
Mark Halperin
I don't think it does. I don't think it does, but they're going to have to take it up.
- [18:49]
Professor Kenny
Will they?
- [18:49]
Dan
Why?
- [18:51]
Mark Halperin
I guess maybe they won't, but I.
- [18:53]
Sean
If I were, thune doesn't have to. He's not under the same. That's what I'm saying. It's not privileged like it is in the House. So I don't think that he has to take it up. And he can suddenly be very busy.
- [19:03]
Mark Halperin
So that's. Why. Is that. Is that what you think will happen. Thune will resist the pressure.
- [19:07]
Sean
I do, yeah. I mean, I agree with.
- [19:08]
Dan
There's a difference.
- [19:10]
Sean
Can tell the President, Mr. President, House rules. I can't stop this. Right. But Thune has every right to not put it on the floor.
- [19:17]
Mark Halperin
Dan, do you agree that Thune will resist pressure and not take it up?
- [19:21]
Dan
Yes, I, I think he's going to resist pressure. I don't know if he won't ultimately take it up, but it won't be anytime soon.
- [19:28]
Mark Halperin
Okay.
- [19:28]
Sean
And the President doesn't want that. I mean, you can. The difference between the two is that Thune can't tell the president. Johnson can say, I can't stop this. That's legitimate. Thune can't say the same.
- [19:40]
Reporter
Right.
- [19:40]
Mark Halperin
So the White House explained away most of the documents that were released yesterday. The Jeffrey Epstein emails which he discussed. Donald Trump. They did not explain away, except by their longstanding denial, the question of whether the President knew about Epstein's activities. So they again denied the President engaged in improper right conduct, and there's no evidence that he did. But yesterday they did an extraordinary thing. In order to try to head off the discharge petition being successful, they brought Congressman Boebert down to the White House and senior officials briefed her in the Situation Room to try to keep her from voting yes. One of our signing the petition or leaving her name on the petition. She'd already signed it. White House ramps up. Here's the New York Times headline, broke the story. White House ramps up Pressure on GOP to thwart Epstein vote. Representative Lauren Boebert, one of the remaining, one of the Republicans pressing for more Epstein disclosures, was summoned for a meeting in the White House situation. So she was briefed there by top officials in our government. And it continues to be unexplained why Maxwell was moved to a cushy low security prison. So, Dan, what conclusion do you draw from the pressure on Boebert to try to stop the House vote and from Maxwell's continued presence unexplained at a minimum security prison in which her transfer was extremely unorthodox?
- [21:06]
Dan
I continued, if you have nothing to hide, why would you do all this? Go back to this summer when they gathered at J.D. vance's at the Vice president, or no, I think they moved it to the White House. You had the chief of staff, the vice president, the FBI director, the head of the Department of Justice, all gathering to say, how do we manage this again, if there's nothing there but what's there? Well, that's the question. But in what Other circumstance do you do this? You could pick the phone up and call her and say, hey, look, there's really nothing there. We're telling you in the Situation Room, all of these people, they seem terrified of this getting out. They just seem terrified.
- [21:45]
Mark Halperin
Sean, what's the innocent explanation of her transfer and the briefing in the situation? What's the innocent explanation?
- [21:54]
Sean
So on the Sit Room, I think it's obvious. So you don't have. I mean, first of all, the Situation Room is like eight rooms. So it's not. It's a secure room. And obviously they wanted.
- [22:05]
Mark Halperin
Okay, but. Okay, forget the room. What's the explanation for the head of the FBI and the attorney general reportedly there briefing a member of Congress about her signature on a discharge petition? What's the explanation?
- [22:16]
Sean
My guess. And all of this has always been, who else is involved? Here are the number of people potentially that have not been tried, that will get dragged through this, that have claimed innocence, blah, blah, blah. I mean, that's my only possible explanation. Here's what I'll say on the reverse. Think about what we're talking about. A leaked meeting. Right. And yet we know that, you know, to Dan's point, there was another meeting at the Vice President that the vice President convened. Michael Wolf, who is probably one of the biggest scumbags on earth, has seen all this stuff. Nobody has thrown anything out there in public. So everything leaks in Washington. Everything, including that meeting itself. And yet there's no allegation that has ever come out that. This is what confounds me about this whole thing. All these meetings, all these people, and yet we know nothing Salacious. Why? Because I've got to conclude the opposite, which is if there was something, everything in the city leaks. We. I mean, just the mere meeting and where it was leaked.
- [23:22]
Mark Halperin
It wasn't until it wasn't until yesterday that we learned, not through a leak, but through a disclosure by Democrats on the committee and then by Republicans like me.
- [23:30]
Sean
But, Michael.
- [23:33]
Mark Halperin
A bunch of new stuff about a bunch of people.
- [23:34]
Dan
And I actually totally disagree with that. There are people who have spent years on this story who claim that they have seen these files, who have basically all but said, if I name names, I will be sued from now till kingdom come. And if the documents don't come out, you are out on a ledge. Right. So I think you're talking about very powerful people who are. No one has ever said anything.
- [24:05]
Sean
Names on there. And they're basically saying, these are all the people that are going down.
- [24:09]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, one more. Then we got to move on Sean, what's your simple explanation for why Maxwell was moved to a better, a more, a less secure prison? What's your simple explanation for that?
- [24:18]
Sean
Rent control.
- [24:20]
Mark Halperin
No, seriously, what's your explanation?
- [24:21]
Sean
I, I'm sure I don't. The only thing I can think is that she has agreed to continue to talk and share information. And they said, well, what about a nicer place? I mean, I, that's the only, I mean, I, I don't know that there's anything else that's relatively possible considering her sentence. I think she has just said, I'll keep giving you information. I'll keep talking to you. And they said, great, we'll find you somewhere more accommodating.
- [24:45]
Dan
I think they don't want her to talk, so they're being as friendly as possible.
- [24:48]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. All right, a quick word from a sponsor and then we got some more topics into your questions. So if you're here on the platform, want to get in, please raise your hand. Cozy Earth. Our friends at Cozy Earth are having their crazy. Every day is Black Friday today. I look at my calendar says Thursday, but it's Black Friday 40% off site wide. Go to cozy earth.com use the promo code mark for 40% off the cozy Earth bamboo sheets, the Cuddle Bubble Cuddle blanket, those joggers that Sean is so high on. I like the cut of Sean's jib when he's wearing the joggers. I won't, I won't lie. Use the code, promo code mark. You get 40% off. And these deals won't last. Start your holiday shopping today with great products from Cozy Earth. Wrap the ones you love in luxury with Cozy Earth. And I slept under my Bubble Cuddle blanket last night. I almost overslept. So it's like a, it's a warning to you consumers. It's that comfortable. So set a double alarm because under the Bubble Cuddle blanket, as it starts to get cold, you could, could oversleep again. Cozy earth.com promo code mark for 40% off your order. All right. New Associated Press poll. We've seen a lot of polling lately and even Republicans will tell you the president's not having a renaissance regarding his poll standing. And in some polls, there's a consistent trend line and it's downward, downward. It's, it's kind of the opposite of the price of beef. Here it is from the Associated Press, a really good, well framed question. Do you approve of the job the president's doing managing the government? Okay. Do you approve of the job he's doing? Managing the government. Now, the government shutdown is obviously going to cause him to take a hit, but this is a pretty big hit. For instance, amongst all adults, he went from 43 approval in March down to 33 approval amongst Republicans from 81 down to 68. Here's a biggie down among independents down from 38 to 25. And one of the things that's causing his problems is he's taking some positions that the base doesn't love. Here he is on Laura Ingram show talking about H1B visas with, on which he is crosswise with much of Maga112, please.
- [26:58]
Laura Ingram
There's never going to be a country like what we have right now. And does that mean Republicans have to talk about it?
- [27:03]
Sean
And does that mean the H1B visa thing will not be a big priority for your administration? Because if you want to raise wages for American workers, you can't flood the country with, with tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of foreign workers.
- [27:15]
Laura Ingram
You also do have to bring in.
- [27:16]
Sean
Talent when we have plenty of talented people.
- [27:19]
Guest
No, you don't.
- [27:19]
Mark Halperin
No, you don't.
- [27:20]
Sean
We don't have talented people.
- [27:21]
Laura Ingram
No, you don't have, you don't have certain talents. And you have to, people have to learn. You can't take people off an unemployment, like an unemployment line and say, I'm going to put you into a factory. We're going to make missiles or I'm going to.
- [27:32]
Sean
How do we ever do it before? Well, when you and I were, I'll.
- [27:35]
Laura Ingram
Give you an example. In Georgia, they raided because they wanted illegal immigrants. They had people from, from South Korea that made batteries all their lives. You know, making batteries are very complicated. It's not an easy thing and very dangerous. A lot of explosions, a lot of problems. They had like five or six hundred people, early stages to make batteries and to teach people how to do it. Well, they wanted them to get out of the country. You're going to need that, Laura. I mean, I know you and I disagree on this. You can't just say a country's coming in, going to invest $10 billion to build a plant and going to take people off an unemployment line who haven't worked in five years and they're going to start making missiles. It doesn't work that way, Dan.
- [28:19]
Mark Halperin
That sounds to me like America last. And as you pointed out, MAGA went crazy yesterday on social media, on podcast, really unhappy with his visa position. Steve Bannon, many others. So Dan, if you were the president's political advisor and he said, how am I doing? What's up with that? Eight people. What would you tell him?
- [28:41]
Dan
Well, I think we've talked about it here. He's had a problem since this summer. I mean almost across the board on every single issue. Both kind of overall approval. Even on immigration, he has been trending down and it has been a consistent pattern of independents are frustrated. People don't feel like the changes that they wanted to see primarily on the economy are happening. So from a pole position like you have a problem. I think the H1B visa issue is really fascinating because it does tear both parties apart. Bernie Sanders has railed against this for a decade, going back to when I did immigration lobbying 15 years ago. I think you know, OJD Vance, like where are you here on this? I mean one, one night they're having dinner with tech CEOs who absolutely need this and the next minute your base does not like it. So I think he's, he's got some problems here and we'll see. Kind of, you know, with State of the Union end of the year, there's a chance to reset. And what's your focus for 2026, Sean.
- [29:41]
Mark Halperin
How would you appraise his current poll standing?
- [29:44]
Sean
Yeah, so I mean, look, in light of some of the, not the result, but the process of DOGE and then the shutdown of the government, I'm not surprised. I think a lot of people looked at what was happening and just said this is typical Washington dysfunction. So I'm not, I'm not shocked by that. And I think with the government reopening and obviously the lessons of doge, meaning that there's widespread agreement that our government is dysfunctional and inefficient. But probably explaining the process a little better would be a more effective way of going about it, that that number will rise. I will say this on the H1B visa, this is, this is the Kryptonite issue. H1B visas is the one thing that I think that, that this White House needs to be careful on. MAGA will go with the President every day of the week, twice on Sunday on every issue. But this, this is an issue that they need to have a better plan on. Started at the beginning of the year with that back and forth between Elon and Steve and, and it's continued to be something below the surface. It's huge. The problem is this. The President's got a point. You can't just snap your fingers and get people to work on, you know, high tech major issues. But at the same time, that's, we can't just say, well, then that's it. We need to talk about creating the opportunities for Americans. Right. And so what does that mean? I think what they should work with is take all those tech CEOs, create some kind of massive private sector public partner, public private partnership, education grant apprentice type of thing where you start funneling Americans into a high tech type of path, trades, etc. That we can do this. But if you don't have a plan to show how Americans can get those jobs and just say, well, at the end of the day we don't have the talent, that's not going to be an acceptable answer going forward.
- [31:42]
Mark Halperin
Okay, we're going to get to your questions after we talk about four prospective 2028 presidential candidates. So again, if you want to get in the conversation, please raise your hand. So I was in Washington earlier in the week and talked to a bunch of people who have spent time in and around the vice president lately. And as those of you know, I'm very bullish on his prospects of being the Republican, Republican nominee and being a strong general election candidate. From what I've seen, I heard a surprising amount of dissent of people saying there are going to be other people in this race. He's not going to run on a post even with Trump's nomination. And the thing that people cite almost universally is they think he's a phony. Now, he doesn't come across to me as a phony. If you watched him yesterday at the Maha event, to me he comes across as the, one of the most plain spirit speaking natural government officials of any, any level I've seen. That's how I interpret, that's how many people I know experience JD Vance. But he did call Donald Trump the Republican Party's Hitler just a few years ago. And, and this has been a, a, a knock against him. Even on the eve of his selection by President Trump as his running mate. Very senior people close to the president say the guy's a total phony. Guy's a total phony. So it's interesting to me, we talked about it at length last night with Ax Castianos and, and Hans Nichols. Is he a phony or not? And how do you, how do you evaluate that? Here is last night also from from Two Way Tonight, Ray Marcano, a longtime journalist, a member of our community, lives in Ohio. Here's what Ray says he hears in Ohio about J.D. vance.
- [33:17]
Ray Marcano
So, you know, I'm here in Ohio. I'm confused by this JD Vance thing. I know that he speaks real well. I know that he looks Great in the suit. I know his hair is real coiffed, unlike mine. I mean, I need a haircut, that's for damn sure. I don't get why people inside the beltway love the guy. Now maybe he is the epitome of a politician, but I can tell you here among the working class people in Ohio, when I ask folks, even Republicans, what do you think of J.D. vance? One word tends to come out more than other.
- [33:51]
Dan
Phony.
- [33:52]
Ray Marcano
Yeah, he's not us.
- [33:54]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [33:55]
Ray Marcano
Ooh, he's too polished.
- [33:57]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [33:58]
Ray Marcano
So any, anytime I'm on here and I Hear people, oh, J.D.
- [34:01]
Laura Ingram
Vance.
- [34:01]
Ray Marcano
Oh, he's so, you know, he's so this, he's so that. And he's a front runner for 2028.
- [34:06]
Mark Halperin
It's early.
- [34:06]
Ray Marcano
Anything could happen. I just don't see it.
- [34:10]
Mark Halperin
Sean. Why, why do some people think he's a phony? What do they key off of? And, and will this be if he does run for president, Will this be the issue like with George H.W. bush, the wimp factor, Bill Clinton, Slick Willie? Will this be what people, the public and the pundits engage on two part question, why do they think it and will this will be his job is.
- [34:30]
Sean
I got to be honest with you, this is the first time I, that the previous comments thing has come up. I've never heard among the people that I know that word ever uttered about him, ever. Not once.
- [34:41]
Mark Halperin
I've heard, I've heard it for, just, just to say for the last couple of weeks. I've heard it not just from Ray. I've heard it from senior people, particularly in the donor class who've spent time with him. They say he comes across as a total phony in their view.
- [34:53]
Sean
And again, the irony is, I think quite the opposite. I think he's very authentic, he's funny, he's self deprecating. So, and the comment that that gentleman just made I find interesting because he talks about him being coifed. I mean, look at JD getting off Marine One sometimes with the kids, Anusha. He looks like a guy going away with his family for the weekend.
- [35:13]
Dan
Right.
- [35:13]
Sean
He's not like all suited up. He actually looks like I would when I take my kids somewhere. I mean, like, I actually think the exact opposite. I think JD's very relatable. His thing, his Halloween meme just showed that he's got a total sense of humor. Like I, I, I couldn't, I, I.
- [35:28]
Mark Halperin
Hear, I hear you, but just stipulate that people say it. Just trust me, I've been hearing you what do you think they're keying off of?
- [35:36]
Sean
I, I, the only thing again that I could see is how you predicated this by some of his previous comments and saying it's amazing to see this transformation again. As a guy that's been pretty there for the last nine years. I've seen a lot of people who curse the crap out of me who have said I get it now like, and I think there's a lot of converts in the establishment Republican community. I don't, the donor class doesn't particularly surprise me in particular. But look at JD's just upbringing. I mean like you can't fake that crap. That's just, it is what it is. Look at his life story, Dan.
- [36:12]
Mark Halperin
What do you think people are keying off of?
- [36:14]
Dan
I think it's the fact that he slobbers all over Trump. He's morphed how he dresses, how he engages on social media. You know, even you talked about kind of his view of Trump prior. He's morphed himself into like Donald. There is a real Donald Trump Jr. But in a mini me, in everything. And I think you look at him.
- [36:36]
Mark Halperin
And you say, do you think he's a phony?
- [36:39]
Dan
Do I think that that's his authentic self? No, I think he is trying to appease the king 24:7 because he does not want to be on the wrong side because he's a three foot putt from the White House. And if he's the problem to an average voter is, are you really mini Me? Is that who you really are?
- [36:55]
Mark Halperin
If he's the Republican nominee, will phony be the big frame that Democrats put around him?
- [37:00]
Dan
I think they'll say Trump owns you. The question is, I keep going back to this. Is Trump popular? Vance is in a vice. You cannot separate yourself from him. You simply cannot do it.
- [37:15]
Sean
You know, the thing is not if.
- [37:16]
Dan
You'Re going to go on Fox, you're.
- [37:17]
Sean
Not in this town. I could come up with a list off the top of my head on both sides of the aisle of a thousand people that I can think that label would be applied to. And, and he's not one of them.
- [37:31]
Dan
Yeah, and that's into an average person out there. The way literally look at how he dresses now I, I don't get which.
- [37:39]
Mark Halperin
You mean when he's wearing a suit.
- [37:41]
Dan
It's, it's, he wears the, the, the saw, the, the white shirt, the solid bright red tie, the solid blue tie. He only wears navy suits. He just looks like mini me. Listen, talks like me without getting into.
- [37:54]
Sean
It, you may recall. Hold on, timeout. I went through a little this myself. So I can speak. There is sort of a Trump uniform that probably a lot of people get.
- [38:04]
Dan
Like your authentic self.
- [38:05]
Sean
No, no, no.
- [38:06]
Mark Halperin
But it's what you wear to work. When the bosses said this is IBM, I mean, when I worked it, when.
- [38:12]
Dan
I worked today, you got to use the King.
- [38:15]
Mark Halperin
No, no. But when I worked, when I worked at ABC News, I was told Roon Arledge did not like button down collars. And most of my shirts were buttoned down, you know, dress shirts. I got rid of them all. Doesn't make me phony.
- [38:25]
Dan
But, but my point is everything about him is to appease the boss.
- [38:32]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [38:32]
Dan
So is that your authentic self you come across as a phony?
- [38:36]
Mark Halperin
I'll just say I don't think, I don't think he comes across the phony. But Dan, I agree with you. If we did focus groups in 50 states, we find a lot of people, including some Republicans saying he's a phony. It's a, to me, it's a fascinating thing because Sean's experience, it matches everyone I know who knows him well. I don't know a single person who knows him well who thinks he's a phony. Not one to the contrary. They think he's the opposite of a phony.
- [38:58]
Sean
Exactly.
- [38:58]
Mark Halperin
And yet, and yet this. Now, you know, you could talk about Mitt Romney, the private Mitt Romney. You know that sometimes the people public does it. But I don't think he comes across as a phony. I don't think he comes across differently in public and in private. It's not the Romney problem. It's not the John Kerry or the Hillary Clinton problem. He is in private the way he is in public. And Sean doesn't see that as phony. You do. You both speak for tens of millions. To me, it's a fascinating thing. We got to move on Gavin Newsom's former chief of staff and not his chief of staff. 20 years ago. The chief of staff like two years ago was indicted yesterday. We'll show you this thing. I feel horrible for it. Even if she's guilty, this is one of the most painful of these walks where she's leaving the courthouse, she doesn't have security and the reporter's just peppering her. It's, it's like a trainer. I can't look away. Roll this. This is. What's her name? Paul. Dana Williams. Any, any comments?
- [39:50]
Reporter
Should other California officials and people involved in the government be concerned now with this investigation underway?
- [39:56]
Mark Halperin
Do you have any comment, Ms. Williamson?
- [39:58]
Professor Kenny
Excuse us.
- [39:58]
Sean
No, you guys can contact my attorney.
- [40:01]
Reporter
Excuse us.
- [40:01]
Sean
You have anything to say at all?
- [40:03]
Mark Halperin
Ms. Williamson?
- [40:03]
Reporter
Do you have anything to say to Javier Becerra right now?
- [40:08]
Professor Kenny
He called this.
- [40:08]
Sean
Have you been cooperating with prosecutors.
- [40:13]
Reporter
Ms. Williamson? You have nothing to say with the 23 counts against you alleging that.
- [40:30]
Mark Halperin
All right, all right. It's too painful for me to watch this a third time, Dan.
- [40:35]
Sean
That's hoping your Uber's on time.
- [40:37]
Mark Halperin
Exactly. Exactly. We don't know all the facts. Here's the headline from the New York Times, former 8 to Gavin Newsom, charged with corruption. Dana Williamson, a top Democratic consultant in California, was accused of conspiring to skim over $200,000 in campaign funds that belong to a Biden administration official. That's Javier Becerra.
- [40:54]
Dan
Becerra, yeah.
- [40:55]
Mark Halperin
Dan, based on what we know now, and we don't know everything, is this a political danger for a Newsom 28?
- [41:02]
Dan
Yes. Because anytime you have your chief of staff being alleged to have skimmed money off the top to ultimately backdoor it, you know, through a consulting firm, into your own pocket and that of others, especially as a Democrat, this goes to the stereotype of kind of big government, of. Of being out of control. And of course, if you're going to try to make an issue out of Trump's corruption, this, you know, is awkward when you have this in your own. In your own household. So I think the best thing for him is if she's found guilty quickly and they move on. And no one's alleging that he or Becerra or any of the elected officials had any idea. But it's not a good look, Sean.
- [41:41]
Sean
I largely agree with Dan. I mean, it's not a good look. But how Gavin handles this matters. If he comes out and says, I'm disgusted by this, and da, da, da, da. I hope she. You know, I think how he handles it with will matter, but, I mean, people have done nefarious things. As long as there's no connection to him, and that's the X factor, then. Then it's. Again, it's a rogue staffer doing bad things.
- [42:05]
Dan
And just to be clear, candidates do not sit there and go line by line through their budgets on a weekly basis. I mean, macro, they. They'll approve a budget every quarter or something. But I have never. Well, very few candidates who would sit there and be like, every single expense. What is this? What is that?
- [42:21]
Mark Halperin
So, all right, AOC has been asked for a long time, is she going to run against Chuck Schumer? Is she going to run for president? And of course, in the wake of all the Democratic left anger at Chuck Schumer for not stopping eight of his colleagues from voting with the Republicans to reopen the government, the questions have come back. Here's AOC on Capitol Hill yesterday being asked about Chuck Schumer, 20 and 28.
- [42:45]
Sean
One vote that ended this shutdown. We are talking about a coordinated effort.
- [42:50]
Reporter
Of eight senators with the knowledge of.
- [42:54]
Sean
Leader Schumer voting to break with the.
- [42:57]
Reporter
Entire Democratic Party in exchange for nothing.
- [43:01]
Mark Halperin
Now later on when she was talking of reporters on the Hill or maybe it was earlier but also yesterday, she avoided answering the question about should Schumer be blamed and would she run against Schumer. She basically said there, you know, her constituents have been led to believe by the media that the elections now, you know, that she's running now rather than in four years. And she said, you know, let's focus on 26 and getting good candidates to win Democratic primaries in 26. So Dan, where are you now on AOC? Senate primary against Schumer or presidency?
- [43:34]
Dan
So I've been really confident she was going to run for president until I heard from somebody around her yesterday who said that she is self aware of the limits of her appeal. When you think about 50 states and getting through all of this, I think she the Senate may end up being a more realistic path because she also made as you made the comment yesterday that the Senate as an institution needs to be changed, that there needs to be a different style of leadership. She didn't say Schumer by name, but she's starting to drop hints about the Senate more So this person said I would not be so confident she runs for president.
- [44:19]
Mark Halperin
Here's some interesting reporting from Leanne Caldwell who says that Chuck Schumer called. Called yes, Governor Shapiro, Bashir and Pritzker and asked.
- [44:28]
Dan
You mean Mandani?
- [44:30]
Mark Halperin
No, Schumer called. Madame also called them.
- [44:33]
Dan
Okay, sorry, sorry.
- [44:34]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, Schumer called the same since I well, I think it's the same list but Schumer called Shapiro, Bashir and Pritzker and asked them not to criticize Senate Democrats deal to open the government but failed to convince them they were all critical of it. Interesting that Schumer would do that. And of course if people believe that reporting is going to give more heat. Sean, where are you on aoc? Senate governor stay in the House or Senate president stay in the House.
- [44:57]
Sean
First of all, I say this respectfully. She is a not a serious candidate for president. I think that if she Is that self aware. That's good on her because this is, you might can win a Democratic primary or something but there is no way this country is going to elect somebody that unserious. She does and will be the next senator from New York. I don't think Schumer runs. I think he, he's equally self aware to some degree and, and he'll probably do some serious polling and come back and realize losing to her will not be a smart end to his career. So I, I, I actually think the sequencing is he says steps aside, announces he's stepping down and, and aoc, you know, becomes the heir apparent. But she's going to run and he's cooked.
- [45:40]
Mark Halperin
I agree with you exactly. Except I think she have a primary that she could lose. That's what I was just about to add against Schumer.
- [45:46]
Dan
Yeah, there will be some moderate Dems who run.
- [45:48]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. Y lastly, Chris Murphy, you may not know is a senator from Connecticut who is an MSNBC favorite for president in 2028. He went to New Hampshire yesterday. He did a Politics Not Politics and Exit Institute of Politics town hall and then he went over to WMUR, the powerhouse station there and did in interview and you can be forgiven for not knowing that this happened because it barely got any coverage. Although he did get a little nice on wmur. Here's a bit of that. US Senator Chris Murphy participated in a stand up New Hampshire town Hall at St. Anselm College.
- [46:24]
Reporter
The Democrat from Connecticut stopped by News.
- [46:27]
Sean
9 for a one on one interview.
- [46:28]
Mark Halperin
With WMUR political director Adam Sexton. Are we going to see you back here potentially running for president in 2028?
- [46:35]
James Patterson
I'm certainly not here as a presidential.
- [46:37]
Mark Halperin
Candidate and in fact I think it'd be a big mistake for anybody to.
- [46:42]
James Patterson
Assume right now that there's going to.
- [46:43]
Mark Halperin
Be a free and fair election in 2028. I think Donald Trump is serious about wanting to run for a third term. It is a path.
- [46:49]
Reporter
Murphy has represented Connecticut in the US Senate since 20.
- [46:52]
Mark Halperin
I don't like to prejudge it. Let the voters decide. He, he might do well in New Hampshire, practically an adjoining state. But count me as skeptical. Sean, Is Chris Murphy a third tier candidate or a fourth tier candidate?
- [47:05]
Sean
Oh, I think that would be giving him way too much credit. I don't think he's a tier candidate. So no, he's not running for and I will just say I know it's not a side thing but this continued talking point among Democrats about scaring people about free and fair elections. If you're going to crap on the Republicans as journalists. I'm not. Not. I just for all these people wrote stories about like, this is the new talking point. The election is rigged. We're not going to have free and fair elections. I mean, I'm sorry. If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. Where are the stories about this new talking point on the left?
- [47:38]
Mark Halperin
Dan, I'm not prejudging it, but I urge anyone who takes Chris Murphy serious as a potential nominee to go watch his full speech at C Span. You'll go watch it on the C Span website. Go watch his full speech and see if you think he's got room to improve. Your thoughts about Murphy, 28.
- [47:56]
Dan
He has a long way to go. I'm incredibly skeptical. As you say, he's a cable news favorite, but I just don't see his constituency out there. I don't see his path to kind of breaking out. But never say never.
- [48:12]
Sean
Look, here's the pro tip. Senator Murphy, if people don't know you're a senator, they're not going to vote for you for president.
- [48:19]
Mark Halperin
I'm going to do some jaywalking in Hartford and show people his picture and ask who it is. See what happens. All right, quick word from a sponsor, then to your questions. Please be ready. Our good folks at Poncho want to help you dress great. Poncho outdoors.com 2wmm gets you $10 off your first order and free shipping. Again. Ponchooutdoors.com 2wmm Right now, Poncho's got you covered for the fall classics, denim, flannels and a bunch of new styles as well. The stuff feels broken in from day one. Extremely soft, good weight and comfortable all day. And it's Western styling that pairs with anything. Right now, the flannels, Western Polos. Poncho promises this is simple. Free shipping and free returns. No questions asked, free exchanges. If you get the wrong size, you just get to exchange it again. They stand by every shirt. They'll make it right if you order it and you decide you don't like it. Again, right now, $10 off your first order. Free shipping. Poncho@doors.com thank you for your attention. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our US Based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or financial losses. Alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday, holiday worry. With LifeLock, save up to 40 your first year. Visit LifeLock.com Podcast terms apply to this matter. And ladies and gentlemen. He's not third. He's not second. He is first. Professor Kenny, welcome in. Thank you for joining. What's on your mind, sir?
- [50:03]
Dan
And the Bears hat. All right.
- [50:06]
Professor Kenny
Good morning.
- [50:07]
Mark Halperin
Da Bears.
- [50:08]
Professor Kenny
The Bears. Good morning, everyone. How are you? Yeah, I put the Gale Sayers up because Mark mentioned I am third, which is one of the first books I ever read when I was a young man. Well, young boy. So, anyway, just want to quickly say we're having a Christmas get together December 13th in New York City, 7pm at Sweet Linda in Manhattan. But we'll post more of that. Deborah Knox will give you more information as we go. Okay, so. And I love you guys. And I'm gonna miss the three of us together. Spent a year with you.
- [50:41]
Mark Halperin
Thank you, sir.
- [50:42]
Professor Kenny
So my question, Sean.
- [50:44]
Sean
Yes, sir.
- [50:45]
Professor Kenny
Sean, who can get to Trump and make him realize the political ramifications of what's going on with his presidency right now? Meaning we just had this election. He lost a lot of Hispanic vote. He lost the black vote, he's losing the youth vote. And yet he's going on TV and he's saying, you know, affordability is a hoax. Is there anybody who can get him to change his view or in a political way to try and, you know, to try and right the ship? Because if it stays this way, he's going to lose the midterms.
- [51:26]
Sean
Well, respectfully, Professor, I'd say he didn't. I mean, candidates lost, Republican candidates lost because they didn't adhere to the message. And it was interesting. I, you know, this is where it's funny. We're talking about Epstein a minute ago. Democrats did well to stick to the affordability message. And so if they want to go down the Epstein rabbit hole, they do so potentially at their own peril. I think the president gets it, as I've said. I mean, he's talked about prescription drugs and home ownership. I think the one disconnect that sometimes I see from my angle is that as I've stated, you know, a couple times, I think he looks at the situation, says, so many of these prices have gone down since I've gotten in. But to the average American, they're not looking, they're not keeping a scorecard and saying, here's what the price was when Biden was out. Here's what it is when you're out. They just care about the net. And I Think that's where the president and the team could probably amp up the hey, we're still working hard for you. We know there's more to be done. The job's not finished. They need to end that part of the sentence by why we're doing what we're doing. And I mentioned this the other day on the perspective prescription drug thing, connecting the dots and saying that we're doing this because we want to put more money in your pocket. We want to save you, you know, on the, on these essentials. Trying to tell people that. That they're fine when they're still struggling is the difficult part. And so I think he's doing all of the right things. Obviously, the trade stuff, even that just explaining it a little bit more. It took we. We've been getting robbed as a country from for decades. And so what he's doing is trying to reset an imbalance that will benefit our manufacturers, our service workers, our agricultural workers, farmers and ranchers. Making sure we're explaining the why is where I think they could probably maybe do a little bit more. But I think there's no question, if you look at the policies that he's pursuing, he gets it.
- [53:19]
Mark Halperin
Thank you.
- [53:20]
Dan
I think the challenge for him is inflation and costs were coming down the last year of the Biden administration. They were. It peaked in 2022, 2023 didn't come down fast enough. The problem is he then put the tariffs and the chaos in place and prices started now re accelerating. It's not huge, it's not 10%, but from like two and a half to three and a half and then with some goods, it's more than that. So the problem is he doesn't ever admit that he. It's not okay. His whole game plan is winning, period. He just doesn't do empathy.
- [53:55]
Mark Halperin
Carrie, welcome in. Thank you for being in two way. Tell folks where you are and what's on your mind.
- [53:58]
Reporter
For Sean and Dan, I live in a suburb of the Twin Cities in Minnesota, and I was calling about the Affordable Care act and I get really frustrated when I listen to all the talk about it because it usually focuses on how expensive it is and the subsidies and nobody talks about how crummy of an insurance plan it is. And my husband and I got put on it not because we wanted to corporate downsizing right before we turned 65, so we can't get Medicare. No one talks about how if I go to a doctor outside my limited area, it's not covered. If I go 15 miles into Wisconsin and we go Biking and I break a hip. I can't go to an emergency room there. I can't visit my kids in Washington or go skiing in Colorado and think I'm going to get covered. It has to be a life threatening event to have it covered.
- [55:07]
Mark Halperin
How many Obamacare plan options did you have to choose from?
- [55:11]
Reporter
Well, there's lots of different companies, but there's different levels. You know, there's gold, silver.
- [55:17]
Mark Halperin
And did you, did you choose to get the one that afforded the best coverage but still found it very limiting.
- [55:22]
Reporter
Or did you know it's that, that's the thing. People don't know. No one believes me until they do. It doesn't matter which plan you choose and it doesn't matter what state you live in. I have called because we'd like to live near our kids. And so I check and talk to the health brokers out there. It's actually true. It doesn't matter what plan you're on. That's the way it is. My sister didn't believe me until she was in Florida working out next to some lady who said, oh, I have to fly back to Iowa tomorrow to get my MRI because you know, I can't do it in Florida on vacation.
- [55:58]
Mark Halperin
You speak, you speak for tens of millions. And I know you're telling the truth because I just know some states have better plans than others. But in most states, most states, it's extremely limited. Even if you opt to pay the highest premiums for the best plan on offer, it's extremely limited. The coverage and add a network coverage is non existent. Let's, let's let Dan and John comment if we, if we can. Dan, go ahead.
- [56:23]
Dan
Yeah, I mean, you speak for tens of millions, Carrie. I think almost everyone on here probably has an experience in their own personal life or that of a family member of dealing with insurance companies where you're either denied or as you say, the doctor is not in your network or where I live, increasingly doctors don't take insurance. I mean, more than half of the doctors, whether it's a pediatrician or a specialist for something you pay out of pocket, then you submit for reimbursement and you get, you know, whatever, 20, 30, 40% reimbursed. But what do you do when you're having a health issue and you need to have it treated? You're, you're, you're stuck a little bit. And so the, the entire system, the incentives, the health industry, medical professionals like Carrie. I think most people never look at their medical bill. So why is an MRI at Mount Sinai, you know, so different than one at Lenox hill, which is 20 blocks further to the south in the same neighborhood. How much are you paying for anesthesia? How much are. The whole system's opaque. People get, you know, you look at your bill, you're like, I didn't even ask for some of this stuff. I don't remember this test. And most people don't pay attention, Sean.
- [57:38]
Sean
Yeah, I mean, look, here's the reality stands, right? I mean, this is. The system's a total joke on multiple fronts. I'm staring right now at a stack of Blue Cross things that come in, and, you know, it says explanation of benefits every time. And the only thing I ever look at is how much I owe. So if it's paid for, it's fine. If it's not, I don't look. But the system has no cost containment incentives in it. Number two, you're absolutely right. Especially older people who might live somewhere or you hear this all the time. They're having to choose where to have residency because I don't want to lose the plan that I'm in because I'm based here most of the year or whatever, and I can't get the care I need somewhere else. The entire system is completely busted. And to Dan's other point, you find this especially in orthopedics and specialties where they'll just say, we're not taking insurance. You go battle it out with your company to figure out what you get. We'll send you a bill, you pay it, then you figure it out. The question is, you know, Congress needs to either meet the moment or not. And I don't have a lot of faith that they will. I think that they will find somewhere to punt on this. Do some band aid approaches. And I said, at best, do, like, some kind of augmentation. But this is. The system does not work, and it's unsustainable. So I just hope that, you know, it does become an issue, because I think we really do need to figure out how to make this better.
- [59:01]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. Carrie, thanks for speaking up and for being part of two way. Really grateful to you. Thank you. Quick, one more message from a sponsor. Take Lean. If you're trying to lose weight, fad diets are not the way to do it. Things like juice cleanses, cabbage soup, raw food diet causes in most people, weight cycling, where you lose a lot of weight, but then you gain it back. Lose weight over a stained period of time and avoid the damage that comes from weight cycling. Try the products from Take Lean, go to take lean.com promo code 2wmm 20% off the entire site. This was created by doctors. It's not one of those injectable GLP1s. It's science based to allow you to do the things you need to do, maintain healthy blood sugar levels, control appetite and cravings and control burn fat by converting it to energy. That is the way to lose weight. Make this part of your exercise and diet plan to lose weight in a meaningful way at a healthy pace and keep the weight off. Right now go to take lean.com use the promo code 2WMM for 20 off takeling.com promo code 2WMM thank you for attention to that and all other matters. Sean, what do you have today?
- [60:08]
Sean
Well, it's Thursday so it's the panel left to break down. We're going to talk H1B visas, affordability potential next government shutdown. We got a great panel. Erica Donald's the future first lady of Florida and America first policy rep will join us with Chris De Gall, great radio host and Katie Zakaria will also join us as well. So lots of fun headed your way today.
- [60:31]
Mark Halperin
All right, new episode of Next Stop dropping later day amongst my guest Tom Emmer, the House Republican whip. And I'm going to ask him about health care and how he'd answer Carrie's question. And Dan, we'll see you at 4 with the group chat. Tell everybody what's in store.
- [60:43]
Dan
Yeah, Emma, Jo, Nina, Robby and I will be talking about the latest stuff here and we're going to take a little time to talk talk about Joe Rogan who said we may be on the verge of a civil war. So oh, look at, oh, that's not fair to Michael LaRosa. He is much better looking.
- [61:01]
Mark Halperin
Dan will be there 4 o' clock today, then again 6 o'. Clock. Two great guests on two way tonight to give you a wrap of the day and look forward to tomorrow. Ashley Etchen, a former advisor to a bunch of top Democrats including Vice President Harris and Kristen Davison, advisor amongst others, the governor of Virginia. Both of them will join me. And then again, remember it's seven special evening with Fairway and Green opportunity to meet some of the folks behind their successful company and to learn about how you can do all your Christmas shopping tonight if you need to buy for your clients, customers, family members, employees. If you want to get a premium gifts for everybody opportunity and we'll help you just buzz right through it. You can get the, you want the two way merch, you can get it for those Folks, but if you want to get your company logo or just the regular stuff, please join us. Seven o', clock, half an hour. We'll speed you through how you can get all your Christmas shopping done tonight. And Then also at 7, Michael Moynihan, the Moynihan report on his web channel, joined by the president of the Signal Foundation, Meredith Whitaker. Please join. Michael also. And of course, you can watch that on demand on YouTube. And the three of us will be back in 23 hours. And Dan, because it's Friday, what can people expect on tomorrow's program?
- [62:11]
Dan
Winners, losers and what to watch for? And by the way, the chat is suggesting, because they all agree that J.D. vance wears the same thing, we should send him fairway and green to loosen up. You know, like Al Gore's earth tones. J.D. vance can have.
- [62:24]
Mark Halperin
But instead of the, instead of the morning meeting logo, maybe we get like a little headshot of Donald Trump.
- [62:28]
Dan
Yeah, yeah, I like it. Or the Mar A Lago crest.
- [62:33]
Mark Halperin
Donald Trump in a Santa hat.
- [62:35]
Sean
I tell you what, I will. I have a couple things that I could drop off, so let me see what I can do.
- [62:40]
Mark Halperin
Okay. What size do you think he wears? He's large.
- [62:44]
Sean
I would go with knowing what I wear and what. Yeah, I think he's probably somewhere between a medium and a large. But I would tell him to stick with the bottoms.
- [62:51]
Dan
He's a tall guy, isn't he?
- [62:53]
Sean
He is, yeah. I'd stay with the large.
- [62:55]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, but not extra large.
- [62:57]
Dan
Like he's not a medium guy. He's more.
- [63:00]
Mark Halperin
Anyway, thank you all for watching. Thank you for being part of the two way experience. And Chris Murphy. Chris Murphy, nowhere to go but up. Have a great day, everybody. That.