Will Biden-Appointed Lisa Cook Be Gone From the Fed By October Due To Mortgage Fraud Accusations?

Summary

2WAY Morning Meeting | September 2, 2025

Episode: Will Biden-Appointed Lisa Cook Be Gone From the Fed By October Due To Mortgage Fraud Accusations?

---

Overview

Hosted by Mark Halperin, Sean Spicer, and Dan Turtine, this forward-looking weekday gathering simulates the high-level morning meetings of America's TV news execs. The September 2, 2025 episode covers the unfolding mortgage fraud accusations against Fed Governor Lisa Cook, predictions for her future at the Fed, and places the story within a crossfire of news on Washington politics, U.S.-China/India relations, domestic crime policy, and primary election mechanics. Audience participation brings local color and challenges to the analysis.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lisa Cook and the Fed: Mortgage Fraud Allegations

• Background: Biden-nominated Lisa Cook, a Federal Reserve Governor, faces mounting political and legal pressure after accusations of mortgage fraud; a court hearing the previous week was inconclusive, with further briefings now required.
• Public Case: Bill Pulte, Housing Authority head, calls for her removal and a DOJ investigation, arguing, “it appears that she has committed blatant mortgage fraud…we can’t be having somebody like that in the Federal Reserve.” (27:37)
• Political Dynamics: Both hosts agree Cook is being singled out for legal action due to policy disputes and politics rather than a pattern of prosecution for similar offenses.
• Details of Allegations: Spicer clarifies the mechanics—Cook allegedly claimed investment properties as principal residences multiple times, lowering her mortgage rate illegally: “When you lie on a form…that is mortgage fraud. And she did it three times. Now we have her signature.” (29:01)
• White House Handling: Dan criticizes the administration's process: “they did not give her a chance to explain her side of the story.” (28:25)
• Predictions:
  • Halperin: “Will she be on the Fed by Thanksgiving?” (30:22)
  • Spicer: “No.”
  • Dan: “Yes, but not by the end of the year.” (30:32)
  • Both agree: flawed process by the administration and possible legal delays.

---

2. Washington’s September Agenda & Political Daybook

• Congress Returns: Congressional activity resumes, pressing issues include Fed nominations, budget showdowns, and looming government shutdown risks.
• Key Events:
  • President to potentially announce renaming the Department of Defense (05:42)
  • “UNGA September 23rd is gonna be important...the APEC meeting in Korea, which is October 31st—that’s where I believe, on the sidelines, Trump and Xi will meet" – Spicer (11:38)
  • Budget negotiations and China relations cited as top priorities by both Dan & Sean.
• Russia/China/India Geopolitics: Ongoing debates about U.S. leverage, sanctions vs. arms, India’s transactional diplomacy, and how alliances shift economic and security calculations.
  • “Everything is so interlinked right now...once you touch one all the others start to move.” – Spicer (14:56)

---

3. Tariffs, Courts, and Consumer Implications

• Tariff Litigation: Court of Appeals rules President’s tariffs may stand—Supreme Court likely to uphold but stay is in place until October (17:04).
• Legal Arguments: Spicer cautions, "I am not convinced that...conservatives are going to completely all walk in March and step with the President on this one." (18:04)
• Consumer Effects: Immediate supply chain concerns as “DHL and other parcel services are stopping the shipment…all those things...school supplies, widgets, Christmas gifts—are going to potentially have supply chain issues.” – Spicer (19:45)

---

4. Budget Brinkmanship & Congressional Rules

• Government Shutdown: "Will there be a government shutdown?" – Halperin (20:56)
  • Dan: "Yes."
  • Spicer: Technical/fleeting only, but overall, Halperin and the hosts predict a greater than five-day shutdown this fall.
• Senate Confirmations: Republicans considering a rules change to address confirmation gridlock.
  • “They will change the rules and regret what they've done to some extent.” – Spicer (21:49)
  • Both Dan and Sean agree: a rules change (making batch confirmations easier) is imminent.

---

5. Urban Crime, Federal Intervention, and Political Optics

• D.C. as a Crime Policy Model: Bipartisan acknowledgement that D.C. crime is down—by aggressive federal intervention (23:25).
  • “Even Mayor Bowser is kind of almost now trying to hug it and say, yeah, it’s great.” – Dan (23:25)
  • “I think it should be held up as an example of what a federal, state, slash city, you know, partnership could look like.” – Spicer (24:00)
• Chicago Debates: Audience member Karen from Chicago paints a vivid picture of local denial among affluent liberals about persistent violent crime in poorer neighborhoods (43:11). She spotlights grassroots figures (“Chicago Flips Red”).
• Critiques & Complexities: Chris Simmons calls out the administration for using security resources to protect affluent/tourist areas while ignoring the roots of urban crime, pushing for more targeted local police support (52:46–54:41).

---

6. New York Mayor’s Race: High Stakes, Donor Moves

• First signs of major donor activity as rich New Yorkers seek alternatives to front-runner Mondami, with former Gov. Cuomo seen as the only serious threat (25:04).
• “The whole game now is getting Adams and Sliwa out. That’s it. The black community is in charge of Adams and Trump is in charge of Sliwa.” – Dan (26:13)
• “This race is over. Welcome Mayor Mandami.” – Spicer (26:24)

---

7. Congressional & Senate Election Map

• Redistricting Gains: Consensus (with guest Mike’s input) that Republicans are likely to net 7–13 House seats from upcoming redistricting (32:03).
• Senate Seats: Dan predicts Dems will take only Maine; both agree Georgia is a likely Republican pick-up from Democrats in 2026 (33:45).

---

8. DNC Calendar and the “Early States” Puzzle

• Hosts debate which states will actually lead the 2028 Democratic primary, given party upheaval and lack of frontrunners.
  • “New Hampshire, Nevada, Michigan.” – Dan’s bet (36:05)
  • “South Carolina, Nevada ... New Hampshire by default.” – Sean (35:50)
• The struggle: “White states are not going to be allowed to go first easily.” – Halperin (37:14)

---

9. Audience Q&A: Local Voices, Media Critique

• Karen (Chicago): Frustration with Democratic denial of violence, highlights on-the-ground conservative activism (43:11–46:36).
• Mike (Tennessee): Critiques Mark Halperin for not challenging Democratic guests harder, especially regarding media bias and DNC leadership (48:53–52:09).
• Chris Simmons (Georgia/Memphis): Adds policy nuance—in crime, federal presence is symbolic, not targeted to poorest neighborhoods; advocates for deeper community policing and resource alignment (52:31–58:44).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Lisa Cook and Mortgage Fraud:

  • “In the case of Ms. Cook, it appears that she has committed blatant mortgage fraud. And we can't be having somebody like that in the Federal Reserve.”
    – Bill Pulte (27:37)
  • “She blatantly lied by claiming a property a principal residence, which was always intended to be an investment property, a rental property. That is mortgage fraud. And she did it three times. Now we have her signature.”
    – Sean Spicer (29:01)

• On Administration Process:

  • “They did not give her a chance to explain her side of the story. And from a legal sense, keep an eye out for that.”
    – Dan Turtine (28:25)

• On American Foreign Policy Complications:

  • “Everything is so interlinked right now...once you touch one all the others start to move.”
    – Sean Spicer (14:56)

• On Urban Crime Policy:

  • “I think it should be held up as an example of what a federal, state, slash city, you know, partnership could look like.”
    – Sean Spicer on D.C. (24:00)
  • “They [Democrats] have really lost the focus here. Instead of looking at the plight of these people that are afraid to walk out of their house at night, they can’t go to school, they can’t go to grocery stores. It’s really that bad.”
    – Karen (Chicago resident, 44:54)

• On Media & Politics:

  • “There is no, nothing fair and balanced anymore.”
    – Mike (Tennessee, retiree, 51:43)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:31] – Start of substantive show discussion
• [05:42] – Preview of White House political events and key daybook
• [11:38] – Preview: UNGA, APEC, & U.S.-China/India relations
• [17:04] – Detailed tariff litigation analysis
• [23:25] – Urban crime, DC as model, and mayors' dilemmas
• [27:37] – Lisa Cook mortgage fraud: context, allegations, reactions
• [33:45] – 2026 Senate race predictions
• [35:50] – Democratic primary calendar speculation
• [43:11] – Karen calls in from Chicago on crime and political denial
• [48:53] – Mike’s media critique and feedback
• [52:31] – Chris Simmons: complexity of urban crime and community policing
• [60:30] – Preview of upcoming related programming

---

Conclusion

This episode is a whirlwind tour of September’s “live wires:” the fate of Lisa Cook, how D.C. models federal intervention on crime, how tariffs and court battles affect consumer life, and why elections and party processes are in flux. The hosts spar and collaborate in a distinctly combative, news-hungry, and policy-savvy style, with audience input strengthening the real-world edge. The language throughout is brisk and pointed, with an unapologetic focus on what will drive the day's news—not pundit platitudes or party lines.

Transcript

[Dan Turtine]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills.

[Sean Spicer]

But it turns out that's very illegal.

[Mark Halperin]

So there goes my big idea for the commercial.

[Dan Turtine]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Karen]

Of $45 for a three month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required new customer offer for first three months only.

[Mark Halperin]

Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com Olivia loves a challenge.

[Chris Simmons]

It's why she lifts heavy weights and likes complicated recipes. But for booking her trip to Paris.

[Mark Halperin]

Olivia chose the easy way. With Expedia she bundled her flight with.

[Chris Simmons]

A hotel to save more. Of course, she still climbed all 674.

[Mark Halperin]

Steps to the top of the Eiffel Tower. You were made to take the easy route. We were made to easily package your trip. Expedia made to travel flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.

[Chris Simmons]

So keep the smack out of the.

[Sean Spicer]

Chat and lean into peace, love and understanding. The morning meeting is back on two Way with your hosts, Mark Halperin, Dan Turin Tine and Sean Spicer. Foreign.

[Mark Halperin]

Welcome back to the morning meeting. This is two way and I am your host along with Dan and Sean. Mark Halpern here to guide you through the day as we always do based on the Network News Division's morning meetings. We are happy to have you here. Lots to discuss and we're going to break format a little bit today to try to as always be forward looking but to get through a bunch of stuff that has antecedents in the week off but also will very much be a part of our September. So we're going to get through a bunch of topics today. Sean, what what should people know about your week off?

[Sean Spicer]

I didn't accomplish as much as I wanted.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. Dan, how about you?

[Dan Turtine]

A lot of family time. It was awesome.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, we're glad you're back. And platforms continues to grow, including some new sponsors, including one on this program today which you'll hear about later in the program. As always, we want your participation if here on the two way platform you'd like to be in the conversation, particularly if you've never raised your hand before. Today's the day. Please raise your hand if you'd like to be part of the conversation. If you're watching on x or on YouTube or MySpace, please don't raise your hand and say it with me now. No smack in the chat. Let's continue to, in these fractious times, have this program and this platform be an oasis away from, for instance, the pronouncements of the death of President Trump, which we'll discuss in a moment. He's not dead, by the way. And the same guy did a three hour cabinet meeting just like a week ago, but somehow that may be what led to his death. Sean, can you confirm President Trump is alive?

[Sean Spicer]

Yeah, I think I can confirm it. And he has played rounds of golf. It's confirmed by the media. He's truthed extensively. I don't think that there's, I, I, we'll get to it. I, I am amazed at this conversation, though.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, me also. We'll discuss that and again, a whole lot more and then your questions. So please, if you'd like to be in the conversation, raise.

[Dan Turtine]

Your financial health's pretty good though.

[Mark Halperin]

Yes, it is. We'll talk about that too. It wasn't on our original list of topics, but ever since we put the original list out, I've been besieged by people who want to talk about that. So we should, because we like to crowdsource the assignment desk. Anyway, first, a message from one of our sponsors, Cozy Earth. One of the pleasures I had over the break was hearing from so many of you about your purchase of Cozy Earth products, particularly the pants, because of course, I'm always emphasizing the pants. We're grateful to you for patronizing and what you all told me was what I had told you, which is there are no pants like these, comfortable, casual, but you can wear them at pretty much anywhere, naturally wicking away heat and moisture. The bedding's great too. You get that 10 year warranty if you get it, or 100, 100 day money back guarantee. But many of you commented about the shirts, the pants and the bedding. I heard, I heard about all. But again, I always go back to the pants. Right now, if you want to get some in on the Cozy Earth deal, you can go to cozyearth.com use the code morning44. Yes, 40% off. Best selling sheets, pajamas and more. Again, go to cozyearth.com you will not regret it. Upgrade your summer sleep now and your pants. Everything else Cozy Earth recommended.

[Sean Spicer]

Hi, I'm Anthony Scaramucci and I'd like to tell you about my new show, Lost Boys. It's a limited edition series. It's hosted by myself and Professor Scott Galloway. We're having honest conversations about a topic no one wants to talk about. The crisis that young men are facing nowadays. Our talks discuss why so many young men are struggling to find purpose, connection and identity in today's world. We dig into what's really going on, politics, culture, loneliness, even rage, and what we can do to help change the narrative. This is a six part series that will challenge your assumptions and encourage you to continue the conversation from the dinner table to the office. Follow and listen to Lost Boys on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also go to Lostboys Men and sign up to get the latest episodes and news.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, thank you all again for being here. Let's run through the daybook real quick. Congress is trickling back in. There's actually a fair amount of activity on the Hill today even though Congress is not officially back until tomorrow. But the president has one event at 2 o' clock Eastern Time. We're told it relates to the Pentagon and some speculation is that he's going to announce what he's talked about, which is changing the name from the Department of Defense to the Department of War. Sean, is that what this is? Do you know?

[Sean Spicer]

I believe they're also, I don't know if he's going to include this. I would expect a lot of personnel announcements, whether today, but in the next 48 to 72 hours as well.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay. Lots going on at the White House later in the week. But today so far that's the only event it is open press. And so I'm sure there'll be at least some joking about the president's health again. We'll talk about that in a minute. Don't know what the vice president's doing today. The secretary of the treasury says he's going to start interviewing Fed candidates today, although I believe he has. He did a bunch of interviews.

[Dan Turtine]

I was just going to say he.

[Mark Halperin]

Did a bunch of interviews over the weekend and talked about housing and talked about taxes and tariffs and a bunch of stuff as he was out and about promoting the no tax on tips. But they will be stepping up the Fed activity. We'll talk about that. House and Senate again. Come back today. Hakeem Jeffries, two o' clock press conference. House Oversight Democrats are going to come out of their closed door meeting with this group of alleged victims. Some are describing them as Jeffrey Epstein victims, but there's some indication that some of these people who've never spoken, some who have not spoken before, will claim to be victims of other men. House Democrats will come out and talk about that at 3 o' clock tomorrow. Mr. Mr. Massey and Mr. Khanna are holding a press conference on the steps of the Capitol. I'm not sure it's a press conference, public statement. I'm not sure they're going to take questions with 10 women, some of whom have never spoken before. Senate is voting to move forward. The NDAA. House is voting at 6:30 on the Stop Chinese Fentanyl act of 2025. There's other bits and pieces of stuff around Washington. But let's move to our, by the.

[Sean Spicer]

Way, can I just, on the, on the Besson thing real quick, I was fascinated by the idea that, that that event happened so late in the month. Right. We've had the whole month of August to go out and sell the big beautiful bill. And it's, and we have one big event with the secretary of the treasury at the end of the, as we're heading back out of recess. And I, I just was fascinated. We kind of went for four weeks without a real major event.

[Dan Turtine]

Well, J.D. j.D. Vance did.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, he's done four or five. One of the morning tip sheets says that Caroline Levitt and James Blair are going to be on the Hill I think tomorrow, maybe Thursday, but some point this week briefing House members and staff about how they'd like the bill to be messaged. And there's all sorts of debate about that.

[Dan Turtine]

All right, if that take 3, 4 or 5.

[Mark Halperin]

Midterms are over a year away, so.

[Dan Turtine]

I know, I'm just saying take whatever. When you're winning, you're not changing every week.

[Mark Halperin]

All right. All right, guys. We're going to run through about a dozen topics and we're going to do it quickly. So just like a sentence or two each of where you think things are. I'll queue up the topics. Dan, Sean already talked about it briefly, but why are people online on the left using their energy to say that the president's either dead or dying?

[Dan Turtine]

I mean, two things. One, I just think, you know, it's like we talk about Gavin Newsom. They've learned, right. They're chipping away. Donald Trump is physically aging. I don't see him mentally declining. But you can look, you, you can physically see it. And it's obvious to everybody. So I get what they're doing. It's just wait, wait, wait.

[Sean Spicer]

Can I just ask, what do you, I don't, I don't get that. Like what, what is physically. I don't. What is.

[Dan Turtine]

So when you're so when you're 79 and overweight, your ankles are swelling, your hands have swelling, everyone says this is the Same thing for Joe Biden.

[Chris Simmons]

Yeah.

[Dan Turtine]

Our parents started showing signs of, like, physical declining as you get older. So this is the HAHA for the right that's freaking out. This is what people did.

[Mark Halperin]

The way they told Dan, I can already tell we're not going to get through these topics quickly. But that being. That having been said, do people on the left actually think the president's dying or seriously impaired or is it just a gimmick?

[Dan Turtine]

I don't know. Did people on the right think Joe Biden was dead?

[Sean Spicer]

I think he was. He was. Physically. I mean, that's. To be honest with you. Case.

[Dan Turtine]

Case closed.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, but Dan, they just spent. Your party just spent almost a week spending a lot of time saying the president's dead or the party didn't.

[Dan Turtine]

Mark. People in the base online did. No. Well, tell me one elected official who came out and said, I think he's dead.

[Mark Halperin]

I'm talking about your. At your online activists who are very important to the party. And a lot of writers, a lot of liberal writers did, too.

[Dan Turtine]

Just like on the right.

[Sean Spicer]

Well, yeah, but there was no. I mean, having a bruise on your.

[Dan Turtine]

The parties learned.

[Sean Spicer]

Oh, my God.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay. All right.

[Sean Spicer]

I can't believe this actually was a serious discussion. I thought that we were not.

[Dan Turtine]

It's on the fringes of social media, guys. It's the same thing. The right.

[Mark Halperin]

No, no, no. But.

[Sean Spicer]

But it wasn't the same thing with Biden. He literally was. We now know a lot.

[Dan Turtine]

Obama wasn't born in.

[Mark Halperin]

Guys, Dan, they talked about it on CNN this morning. So it's not enough, quote, unquote. They did.

[Dan Turtine]

Did FOX talk about whether Obama was born in the U.S. yeah, they did.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay.

[Dan Turtine]

Did it chip away? Did it eat away? Does it fire up the base? Guys, the parties learned.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, all right. Lots on the president's schedule this week, this month, this fall. Sean, name two events that you're particularly focused on and why.

[Sean Spicer]

I'm just gonna. I won't even bring up the UK right now, but I will say UNGA September 23rd is gonna be important, not just because the president's gonna speak, which should be. Note for Politico, they didn't realize that that had happened. But more importantly, Besset's gonna meet with the premier, the Chinese premier, on the sidelines of that. And then my second event would be either ASEAN or APEC, most likely the APEC meeting in Korea, which is October 31st. That's where I believe, on the sidelines, Trump and XI will meet. Although it could push to the left to asean, but more likely to apec. So I think those are gonna be your two big events.

[Mark Halperin]

Dan, I didn't mean to restrict you to just events. What are two things on Trump's agenda that you're looking at and why?

[Dan Turtine]

Well, the obvious, the budget, because the showdown's coming with Democrats and I think we're walking into a trap. And two, to Sean's point, what happens with China? Too big.

[Mark Halperin]

Those are mine. Those are mine as well. China's big. So is Russia. Dan, is the ball now in Putin's court or Trump's court?

[Dan Turtine]

Trump's court. Where's the leverage? You know what it is? Sanctions and arms.

[Mark Halperin]

Sean, are we going to get sanctions and arms this month?

[Sean Spicer]

I think more sanctions than arms. I'd go 70% sanctions, 30% arms, maybe even 80, 20. I think they'll continue this, allowing Naito to buy them. But I think that Trump's, they're going to start ratcheting it up, not just sanctions but enforcement and that's going to be critical. Watch for whether or not they use the swift bank issue like the transactions. That to me is the real tell everybody has talked about in Europe loves to talk tough on Russia and then does nothing on the transactions that stem from it. And so there they have been allowed to use the banking system, the swift processes or whatever you want to, how it's properly referred to. If that gets clamped down on, that's real. That's when you're really starting to make it hurt. And that's where I think I'll look to see if that happens.

[Mark Halperin]

I had thought before the weekend that Modi was just flirting with the Chinese and the Russians and that he was coming right back as soon as the President called him back. Sean, just. Does the weekend's lovey dovey photo op give you pause and make you think that there may be an alliance here that's more powerful than the American market?

[Sean Spicer]

I think I've always believed that the Indians in particular, having dealt with them in trade stuff, they're always just, they're transactional. They're looking for the best deal at the best time. And that can change tomorrow and the day after. So I think Modi is just playing everybody off each other. So he'll work a deal with China or Russia until the US Comes with a better deal. And so he's going to say, great, take your 50% tariff off me, I'll come talk to you again. And that's, but that's, that's India's sort of pov.

[Mark Halperin]

Dan. The President On Truth Social, we could spend the whole show just running through his true social posts in the last three days. But he said the Indians are now willing to take off all tariffs, but it might be too late. Do you agree with Sean that this is transactional and possible they'll come back, but possible they won't?

[Dan Turtine]

Yeah, Trump's trying to figure out a way to get out of this. I mean the problem is you can only bully people for so long. We need them. So in a relationship you can't bully people too long before they walk away.

[Sean Spicer]

But do you see this is the existential problem that exists on all of these issues. They're so interlocked where everyone goes, well just on Ukraine, we should be tough on Russia. Okay, well you'd be tough on Russia. You put sanctions on Ukraine, you try to maybe go after China, then you create a problem with China, you create a problem with India. Everything is so interlinked right now. And so when, when you hear these, what's Trump going to do on Russia or what's he going to once you touch one the all the others start to move.

[Dan Turtine]

And that's the except it is simple. Russia is not our friend.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay?

[Dan Turtine]

So I mean I know we need to move on, but it's not, this is where Trump's all or nothing. It's us against the world. No, no, no, no, no.

[Sean Spicer]

So fair enough. But I guess my point though Dan is just to say so you say let's be tough on, on Russia so we're going to start sanctioning everybo with them and then India says great, we'll go do business with China.

[Dan Turtine]

Sanctions are a joke. Everyone knows it. It's arms, it's all that matters.

[Sean Spicer]

Oh, I, I don't, I don't, I don't agree with that.

[Dan Turtine]

Don't backdoor to China all day long.

[Sean Spicer]

No, no, no. I, I, I actually think that the greater impact that you have on Russia is economically because the either you go full on war, which is unpalatable, or you can make them bleed economically and that's where the people eventually rise up. So I actually think you have a much stronger play on the economic side.

[Mark Halperin]

You saw the fruits of the basis of my joke about Putin being arrested in Alaska in that photo op. It's hard for the United States to be morally indignant about Xi and Modi having a lovey dovey time with Putin when the president United States just did it. And I think Putin is back in the community of nations. I wouldn't be surprised if the Europeans start meeting with him, too. All right, Tariffs. Nothing heartens me more than any judicial decision that shows that judges aren't necessarily politicians in robes and result oriented. In the Court of Appeals ruling on the President's tariffs, you saw appointees of presidents of both parties, nominees of presidents of both parties on both sides of that divided ruling, which nonetheless said the President's authority that he used to bring impose the country by country tariffs was not exceeded his authority under the law. But they also stayed the ruling until October, giving the President plenty of time to appeal. Presumably either the Court of Appeals or the Supreme Court won't rule by October, but they will extend the stay. So it's not that meaningful decision if you think as many do, but not all that the Supreme Court will rule in the President's favor. The Wall Street Journal over the weekend had a piece I thought was pretty persuasive by news story arguing that the Justices will eventually allow the President to continue the tariffs. Dan, do you think the Justices will eventually do it? And second part, between now and then, does that Court of Appeals ruling matter at all in terms of affecting the negotiations or anything else?

[Dan Turtine]

I don't think the Supreme Court will overturn it. I don't think these rulings matter. I think the only thing that matters is how Americans feel economically.

[Mark Halperin]

Sorry. The Supreme Court will uphold the Court of Appeals.

[Dan Turtine]

They will. They will overturn the Court of Appeals and say that the President has the.

[Mark Halperin]

Right to do it.

[Sean Spicer]

Yeah, Sean, I'm not convinced to that. I mean, the iepa, the problem is that the Constitution is very clear that the power of trade lies within Article 1 with the Congress. And it's only because they've given the emergency powers to Article 2, the President and the, the argument. You see, Bassett's going to file this amicus brief which is basically saying our trade deficit and all of this was an emergency. I, I actually am not convinced that, that, that this conservatives are going to completely all walk in March and step with the President on this one. Maybe they do. But I think that the interesting thing is if you're a strict constructionalist, you go back to the Constitution and say the Congress needed to give the power to the President, and I, EAPA is very narrow. Now, that being said, though, we flagged this. I think I talked about this months ago at the beginning of the administration. The President made a choice to go with the emergency powers versus the dispute mechanism, the 301s and 232s, which would have taken longer, but that's their fallback position. So the bigger and broader point that I would make is whether or not the court rules in one way or another, there's going, they're still going to get their way. It just may take longer. The other interesting thing coming up is this de minimis ruling which basically allowed goods and service goods to come in from other countries below a certain levels, like 800 bucks. So your dhls, all that crap that comes in from China came in tariff free because it was what they called de minimis. It wasn't worth collecting the tariff. The president stopped that. So at least until October 14th, this is going to be a big deal when it comes to all that, that stuff that comes in from China and other countries because literally DHL and other parcel services are stopping the shipment of it until we can figure it out. So suddenly all those things you need, school supplies, what have you, widgets, Christmas gifts are going to potentially have supply chain issues and I think this is going to be an issue that bubbles up potentially in the next few weeks that no one saw coming so far.

[Mark Halperin]

Consumers continue to spend. The Wall Street Journal poll saying people are pretty bearish on the economy generally and long term consumers continue to spend pretty heavily in August. Sean, just one word answer. Does the Court of Appeals ruling cause the countries the US Is still negotiating with to pull back and not negotiate or the negotiations continue? Do they, does it cause them to pull back? Yes or no? No. Okay, one word answers on the next two budget wars, the rescission package and. And the brinksmanship suggests now that the base case for most analysts is that there will be a government shutdown of some duration. Dan, yes or no? Will there be a government shutdown? Yes, Sean.

[Sean Spicer]

The duration, Matt? I mean, I think there'll be a technical one at midnight and by 1:02am sure.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay. I'll ask it a different way, Dan. Will there be a government shutdown of longer than five days? No, Sean. No. The correct answer is yes. Yes. The press, if they, if this the shoe were on the other foot, the press would be accusing the Republicans in the minority. If they were in the minority and there was a Democratic president of historic stonewalling of nominees for requiring Senate confirmation. Senate Republicans are trying to are going to talk this week about potentially changing the rules. Mr. Tillis of North Carolina seems opposed to anything that looks like a nuclear option. Murkowski, Collins, McConnell. Unclear. Sean, will there be a rules change of some sort allowing confirmations to occur more quickly?

[Sean Spicer]

Yes, but there shouldn't have been. The Senate should have done their job and stayed in town in August, this was pathetic what they did and they're going to screw this up. They will change the rules and regret what they've done to some extent. And then the Democrats, if and when they get back into power, will take it one step further. This is what had has happened since Harry Reid changed the rules in the first place. What's going to happen is we're going to keep one upping each other. Republicans are going to regret doing this. They should have stayed in town and done their job.

[Mark Halperin]

Dan, I was looking for a one word answer but didn't get one. So you can go longer.

[Sean Spicer]

It's just a long.

[Mark Halperin]

Is there going to be, is there going to be a rules change and if so, what will it look like? There's all sorts of options being considered, being able to do 10 at a time, making it easier, etc.

[Dan Turtine]

I'm going to keep it simple, Mark. I was always a good listener. Yes, they'll change the rules.

[Mark Halperin]

They'll change.

[Sean Spicer]

Can I just as a public service, though, since I'll take Dan's words.

[Mark Halperin]

No, no, no.

[Sean Spicer]

Yes. What is going on in this process, though, is a shame. The idea that so many people are lingering in this process. It's a bipartisan problem that does need to get fixed, though.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, Dan, there's some. We could spend the hour on the crime stuff. Crime in D.C. seems to be down. Chicago seems to be up in arms. The president, as far as I'm concerned, can do whatever he wants in the sense of he can choose whatever city, he can tweet, he can truth social, he can, he can bluff, whatever. But where is the Democratic Party on this? Now? Gavin Newsom took a different tact and said, yeah, local authorities need help, but they need it from the state rather than the Fed. So where, where is your party now on a posture towards the President?

[Dan Turtine]

The party's a mess. But I would follow Gavin Newsom's lead in that you have to start proposing solutions because Trump is driving crime down. Even Mayor Bowser is kind of almost now trying to hug it and say, yeah, it's great. And now the question is how do we prolong this? How do we turn it into something real? Which is where I've said for a month is where the party should be. I also think the party is smart. Start asking, what about Memphis? What about St. Louis? What are you doing? Not just in our areas, but, but in other states. It makes Trump squirm.

[Mark Halperin]

Sean.

[Sean Spicer]

I think that they should hold DC up as the model and say, and frankly, this is where I think The White House should be careful how far they go. Don't go to Chicago, literally challenge the people of Chicago to demand Mayor Johnson do something. Because you could say, look what we did. We're willing to help, but we need the people of Chicago to have the mayor ask us. Don't force it. This is where I think that they shouldn't overplay their hand. D.C. i'm not. I've been in D.C. three times in the last three days. It is markedly different. And I think it should be held up as an example of what a federal, state, slash city, you know, partnership could look like.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, I mean, I don't think Pritzker could ever do it. But again, I just keep saying the same thing. You take the politics out of it, put people with guns and hardware on street corners. I don't care if they're in the tourist areas or in the most dangerous areas. You're going to deter crime. You just are. And I don't, I don't know why a mayor would turn down such a thing. I understand the federal state issues, but.

[Dan Turtine]

By the way, if you're Pritzker and you want to run for president, those are not good headlines again.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, yeah, they're just all right again. We'll talk about that, I'm sure. More this week and beyond. New York City mayor's race as rich people come back from the Hamptons who don't want a socialist mayor and grocery stores paid for, run by the government for free buses, they face a choice about whether they open their checkbooks to try to stop Mondami from winning. And that requires having a theory of the case about beating him because someone else would have to win for him not to win. And the only person every poll shows who could possibly win besides him is Andrew Cuomo, who still is facing a lot of negative press coverage and hasn't risen up yet to be seen by the commentariat and by the donors as the alternative. So we're waiting to see if there's multi million dollar efforts where the, where the pin is pulled and we see TV ads and more. We're waiting to see if that what the debates are like. We're waiting also to see if the polling shifts at all. But the extent there's been a polling shift, it's in the same direction. It's Mondami or Cuomo and Adams and Sliwa do not have a chance. So Dan, what are you looking for next as the next beat in this?

[Dan Turtine]

The whole game now is getting Adams and Sliwa out. That's it. The black community is in charge of Adams and Trump is in charge of Sliwa. And that is your game right now between now and October 1st.

[Sean Spicer]

Sean, I'm not looking for anything. This race is over. Welcome Mayor Mandami.

[Dan Turtine]

He's still at 40%. Don't need to drive him down.

[Mark Halperin]

He's not only still at 40%, but his unfavorables are extremely high for a guy first in the race. And that's before a potential tens of millions of dollars of negative ads are run against him. So I don't think it's quite over. But a lot would have to happen for him to lose, including remain at 60%. It's higher than that. All right. The Fed, there's lots about the Fed going on. They're meeting later this month and they'll probably cut rates, which will discombobulate something of the storyline. They've largely stopped the White House has largely stopped talking about the construction, overspending and more, talking about filling the current vacant seat and about the mortgages of Ms. Cook, the Fed, not Biden appoint nominee whose term runs for many more years, but who the president has fired. The court ruling the court hearing last week was inconclusive. They've asked for more briefings from the both sides this week. Here is Mr. Pulte, the head of the Housing Authority, who has been the leading public voice saying that Cook must go this morning on FOX Business here.

[Karen]

Why a second criminal referral?

[Sean Spicer]

Well, as you know, mortgage fraud is a huge priority of ours. It's been a huge priority contrary to what Democrats and everybody wants to say since March. And it doesn't matter whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, if you commit mortgage fraud in this country, we're going to come after you. In the case of Ms. Cook, it appears that she has committed blatant mortgage fraud. And we can't be having somebody like that in the Federal Reserve. So it will be up to the DOJ what they end up doing here. But things do not look very good for Ms. Cook, Dan.

[Mark Halperin]

No doubt she was singled out for political purposes and policy purposes. No doubt mortgage fraud of this type that seems to have possibly occurred is not frequently prosecuted. But wouldn't it be better for her to brief the public on her mortgage situation?

[Dan Turtine]

Yes, I think where this, the White House may have erred is they did not give her, it's my understanding, they did not give her a chance to explain her side of the story. And from a legal sense, keep an eye out for that.

[Mark Halperin]

Sean, my Read of the body language of this administration is just as they think they have John Bolton. They think they have her. They do, yeah. Explain.

[Sean Spicer]

Well, so look, anyone who's ever bought a property or second property. So I have investment properties that I've purchased. When you buy an investment property, if you are not intending to make that your principal place of residence, you pay a higher interest rate. And in most cases, you pay a greater down payment. And so when you lie on a form and there are ways around it, you can literally, I mean, you could move into a property, live there for, I think it's 120 days, and then you can move out. There are ways to actually get around it if you wanted to. But she blatantly lied by claiming a property, a principal residence, which was always intended to be an investment property, a rental property. That is mortgage fraud. And she did it three times. Now we have her signature. You can't claim that. If you've ever been through the signing process of a HUD one. I mean, this is not like, you know, the fine print in the back. They literally say, okay, this is you saying this. When you go through applying for the rate, they ask you a million times, are you going to be living there? So she knew what she was doing. She signed in the affirmative three times. The documents are out there. She. When Abby Lowell. Lowell, her attorney, made the case in front of the judge the other day, they literally, when asked, couldn't create a defense as to what it was. So this is her. She doesn't have a defense. That's the problem. I will say this, by the way, just a real quick note that 20, that Fed meeting is on September 23rd, which I know everyone's like, oh, that's your birthday. But it's more than that to be that UN meeting and the date of Kamala's book. So this is going to be a huge September 23rd coming.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, she'll probably be on this show that day would be my guess. Sean, will she be on the Fed by Thanksgiving, yes or no?

[Sean Spicer]

No.

[Mark Halperin]

Dan?

[Dan Turtine]

Yes, but not by the end of the year.

[Mark Halperin]

Oh, okay.

[Sean Spicer]

You're saying that she's not going to be on the Fed, but it'll take longer.

[Dan Turtine]

I think it's my understanding from someone who's pretty knowledgeable this stuff that they made a mistake. You know when you're going to fire someone for cause they have to be allowed to make their case and then you just basically fire them. Right. They did not do anything. And just watch.

[Mark Halperin]

Well, but you're saying judges are going.

[Dan Turtine]

To say that I think there's going to be. I think. But then why do you think this up? They did not go through the counsel's office and they screwed that up.

[Mark Halperin]

The White House counsel's office or the Fed counsel's office?

[Dan Turtine]

I'm not going to fha.

[Sean Spicer]

Probably.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay. All right, interesting. Again, if you want to be in on the conversation a few more topics, please raise your hand. All right, let's try to do these. Yes. No. Dan, will the Epstein activity this week lead to a successful discharge petition?

[Dan Turtine]

No.

[Mark Halperin]

Sean?

[Sean Spicer]

No.

[Mark Halperin]

Correct answer is no. Dan, it's a long way off, but I just. I'll be taking both of your temperatures regularly. Will the California ballot measure on redistricting pass? Yes or no? No, Sean.

[Sean Spicer]

No.

[Mark Halperin]

The correct answer is no. Okay. Bobby Kennedy. Lots going on at hhs.

[Sean Spicer]

I had one question. Since the temperature is going to get taken, how many net seats do Republicans pick up in the redistricting process?

[Dan Turtine]

13.

[Mark Halperin]

Well, you mean based on the analysis of the districts.

[Sean Spicer]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's right. So based on what people. So in other words.

[Dan Turtine]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Spicer]

Five in California.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

[Sean Spicer]

You know, so what. What is the perceived net gain?

[Mark Halperin]

8.

[Dan Turtine]

13.

[Sean Spicer]

Oh, I was actually going 7.

[Karen]

Okay.

[Dan Turtine]

I think when they're all in Missouri, Indiana, Ohio.

[Mark Halperin]

Remember, remember he said net.

[Dan Turtine]

Yeah. California is not going to happen. So five in Texas. I think they'll pick up one or two in California. One in Indiana, one in Ohio. I went through this the other day. Maybe 12.

[Mark Halperin]

Well, they're not going to pick up one or two in California.

[Dan Turtine]

No, I mean, not. Not California. I'm sorry. Texas, Florida, Ohio, Indiana, Missouri. I think they net 12 out of those five states.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, just get nothing quickly on. Quickly on HHS is. Yes. No question. Dan, I know what you're going to say is are the. Are the decisions that Bobby Kennedy's made that have led people to quit potentially a public health threat? Potentially a public health threat.

[Dan Turtine]

Yes. And it's potentially the first opportunity for Dems to get an 8020 crudge.

[Mark Halperin]

Sean, are they potentially a public health threat?

[Sean Spicer]

I hate the. I mean, I'll say no, but I mean, I think anything could potentially be an issue. I just, I don't.

[Mark Halperin]

Are you. Are you concerned that people with all this experience of. Left now. Okay.

[Dan Turtine]

The silent majority.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay. Okay. Name. Based on what we currently know, recruitment, fundraising, etc. Name. Republican held Senate seats that you believe Democrats will win in 2026. Republican Health Senate seats that you believe.

[Dan Turtine]

Democrats would or could.

[Mark Halperin]

You're saying will. Will. Will win. That you're Predicting today will win. Name the states you think Democrats will win. Will win. Not might, will. Dan.

[Dan Turtine]

One Maine, Janet Mills. That's it.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay.

[Sean Spicer]

Sean, I don't think Janet Mills is running. So I say never state.

[Mark Halperin]

Never state. Okay. And Dan, name Democrat held seats. You think Republicans will win.

[Dan Turtine]

Georgia.

[Mark Halperin]

Correct. Sean.

[Sean Spicer]

I. I would probably say Georgia would be number one on my list. Yeah.

[Dan Turtine]

Mark, I will flag, though, keep an eye. We may be saying by next April, there's a better chance of the Senate than the House, which no one has said up until now.

[Mark Halperin]

Well, but then not if. Not if there are.

[Dan Turtine]

No. Well, you asked would. I mean, I'm going to keep an eye on Ohio and North Carolina and Iowa.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay.

[Dan Turtine]

Oh, could be a funny dynamic.

[Sean Spicer]

Yeah, I can't see any. I mean, by, by the way, I think we're trading up with Ashley Hinson. Like, I think that she will Very, very strong candidate.

[Mark Halperin]

And you don't think Matt Whitaker is going to be the nominee?

[Sean Spicer]

I think if Matt runs, it's either one of them, frankly. Matt would be a great nominee. I don't know that he wants to walk away from the NATO job right away.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

[Dan Turtine]

Trump is going on in Iowa.

[Mark Halperin]

Whoever Trump. Whoever Trump endorses. Yeah, maybe. Dan, you might be right. I don't rule it out. All right. Lastly, the DNC is within the process now of determining what order states will go. Whatever order they say, New Hampshire will vote first. There is not what the DNC makes the first state, but what state the candidates make the first state. Only counting fully competitive contests where all candidates compete. What will the first three voting states be for the Democrats in 2028? Sean? The first three fully, fully engaged contests in 2026, 2028 in the states. All I want are three states names. I just want three states.

[Sean Spicer]

Yeah, I'm going to go South Carolina. Nevada. I'm going to say New Hampshire by default. I could be Michigan, but I feel like New Hampshire will make a strong enough case and no one's going to fight it.

[Mark Halperin]

Dan.

[Dan Turtine]

Curveball. New Hampshire, Nevada, Michigan.

[Sean Spicer]

I was going to go with Michigan.

[Mark Halperin]

Close. It's very close.

[Dan Turtine]

South Carolina. I don't know who's fighting for it.

[Mark Halperin]

Michigan. I'm sorry, New Hampshire. South. New Hampshire. Michigan. South Carolina.

[Dan Turtine]

Okay. So you have to. So see, I think Nevada, the party's more focused on than south.

[Sean Spicer]

Yeah. And also, you can't go all east coast. I mean, that's. I get Michigan's mid Atlantic, but I mean, you got to go somewhere out there.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, interesting. Can I ask this?

[Sean Spicer]

Why Are we not talking to me? This is the story. If you're running. To run. If you're Gavin Newsom or Gretchen Whitmer, this is your. Like, how are we not. Not we. But, like, this should be the biggest story because.

[Dan Turtine]

And by the way, if you're a Kamala Harris and you are thinking about it, you should all in.

[Mark Halperin]

Right.

[Dan Turtine]

Still, you're building a little bit like the, the prop.

[Mark Halperin]

The problem is that the process, they're all weak. They don't have the bandwidth to devote like top staff.

[Dan Turtine]

They are.

[Mark Halperin]

They are monitoring it. But the problem is the committee is made up of a bunch of new people, and no one, no one has any advantage. Right. It's not like Hillary's like, I want New Hampshire early. Or Biden's like, I want South Carolina early.

[Dan Turtine]

Like, you don't think Kamala would say, I want South Carolina?

[Mark Halperin]

Well, no, she. She would. She would. But as you said, there's no one pushing it. So there's no train. There's no, there's no party to join there. So it's. It's just it. Even if you. And there's no front runner, right? So even if you wanted to try to do more than just monitor it, it's not really clear what you would do.

[Sean Spicer]

But, but as a reporter, like, how does, how does, like, if I were someone, if I worked at, like, Politico or something, I would be writing a.

[Mark Halperin]

Story about people wrote stories in the committee Met. But there's. But there's no there, there. There's no center of gravity. There's no. There's no chair. Who's masterminding it? The chairman's. I'll tell you. I'll tell you this. Still under weak, still undercovered. Iowa and New Hampshire really want to go first. Some people say we're past the age of woke. White states can go first, but there are a lot of people in the party say, no, white states cannot go first. And my friends in New Hampshire get mad every time I say this. But white states are not going to be allowed to go first easily. And again, you can say you're going first, but if you're not a sanctioned event and people don't go there, the other big variable that people aren't focused on is there's some people in the party say, of course we should be the same day as the Republicans. Our contest should be the same day for all sorts of reasons. And there's some people who say, we don't care. We'll go whatever days we want. So it's hard to, it's hard to write about it. I'm as interested in it as anybody. And I, I agree with you, too. It's, it's the whole game, but it's just, it's difficult, it's difficult to cover.

[Dan Turtine]

All right. Also keep an eye on those Senate races, because if people go all in to help in Iowa and New Hampshire, that's going to play into their going first.

[Mark Halperin]

Yep, exactly. Totally agree. All right, one more topic and then to your questions, please raise your hand if you want in on the conversation. The Trumps made $5 billion on paper, from, from this crypto deal, and some people are up in arms. There's not very much coverage of it, and it's, doesn't seem like anything could stop him from doing it. Sean, does this bother you at all that the President's families clearly leveraging his office to make $5 billion on paper?

[Sean Spicer]

See, that's the only thing I don't get. They're allowed to make money. I'm not sure entirely how they're leveraging his office and that. And I will say, just admittedly, before everyone tees off of me, like, I, I don't understand, like, I, I don't understand. This whole crypto thing is not my wheelhouse. So I don't entirely understand it. But I think launching a venture is completely legal and fine as long as it's above board. And I don't see anything that's, that's nefarious in terms of their trading on access or anything. So they have a right to, to establish a business.

[Mark Halperin]

Dan, why does this seem to be an exception to the media's blanket hostility to Donald Trump and to cover everything negative about him? Like, why is this not getting wall to wall coverage?

[Dan Turtine]

I think there's so much of this going on that it just, you kind of become numb to it. To me, the big thing is if you're going to, if the right is going to go after, literally the act is called the Pelosi act because they have this obsession that Paul Pelosi has made a lot of money, the best hedge fund returns, you know, all the things they literally Trump begged to be exempted. I mean, that just says it all. You're exempting the President and Vice presidency. But, but she is terrible. She is, you know, liberal outrage. It's amazing. It's sheer hypocrisy.

[Mark Halperin]

All right.

[Dan Turtine]

About why he's exempted.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, a word from our newest sponsor and then your question. So please raise your hand if you want to be in the conversation. Guys, any have trouble sleeping? Gentlemen ever have trouble sleeping? No, Sean doesn't. Sean sleeps like a baby. If you don't get enough sleep, you're dragging, exhausted the next day, everything's harder to do. That is where our new sponsor CBD Distillery can make a real difference. Relaxation is key. CBD Distillery has solutions that work for your with your body for stress, pain after exercise, even mood and focus. It is all with their high quality, clean ingredients, no fillers, just premium cbd. Again, imagine waking up relaxed. This product can work for you. Try it. Not everybody wants to try it, but you should try it if you're having trouble relaxing. Over 2 million people trust CB Distillery for sleep, easing stress, even relaxation in all circumstances. So if you'd like some better sleep, I recommend you try it. You can save 25 off your entire purchase. Go right now to cbdistillery.com the promo code is Mark. CB distillery.com promo code. Mark. Dan, guess how much you get off? 40, 25. 25. Yeah. Again, cbdistillery.com and the place promo code is marked. Karen, welcome in. Thank you for joining. Thank you for being part of the two way community. Tell folks who don't know where you are and what's on your mind for Dan and Sean.

[Karen]

Okay. Can you hear me?

[Mark Halperin]

Yes, ma'.

[Dan Turtine]

Am.

[Karen]

Okay, great. Well, thank you very much. I love the show. I've been a fan since almost the beginning.

[Mark Halperin]

Awesome.

[Karen]

So love it. I'm from Chicago. I have a lot to say about the crime here.

[Mark Halperin]

And do you live in, do you live in the city?

[Karen]

I do. I live right downtown. I live in a really nice neighborhood.

[Mark Halperin]

How far, how far from the, how far from the Apple store do you live?

[Karen]

Say, how far from the Apple store? Well, it depends on which one.

[Mark Halperin]

The one in the Miracle Mile.

[Karen]

Okay. I live about a mile and a half.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay.

[Karen]

So I live in a really good demographic.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, I bet you live. I bet you live towards Wrigley rather than Comiskey. That's my guess.

[Karen]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay.

[Karen]

Yeah, I'm about two miles from Wrigley.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, so.

[Dan Turtine]

All right, I gotta ask a certain call.

[Mark Halperin]

I gotta ask one more. How close to the water do you live?

[Karen]

Oh, about. Oh, it's like across the street.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, so. All right. That's my favorite, favorite part of the city. Thank you for joining. Tell us. Yeah, tell us, tell us what's on your mind.

[Karen]

Well, I got a lot on my mind. First of all, Dan, I'm a little frustrated with the Democrats, especially a lot of my friends. Which I, me and one other neighbor, we meet in the backyard, like we live in East Berlin to talk about, to talk about all our little issues that we have over here. And we are, we have been definitely excoriated from the neighborhood if we even mention the word, you know, Red. So anyway, I've got all these friends of mine, and they walk around, they say, oh, Chicago, look at Chic. It's so beautiful. It's just a great city. What's wrong with this city? And this weekend we had 53 shots, seven killed. And I had a business where most of the people that worked for me were from the south side. They were in the caregiving business. They had 24 hour shifts, they had overnight shifts. I had to structure the schedule so that they could get on the bus by 9 o' clock at night so they wouldn't get shot when they got home. And I think that a lot of the Democrats have really lost the focus here. Instead of looking at the plight of these people that are afraid to walk out of their house at night, they can't go to school, they can't go to grocery stores. It's really that bad.

[Mark Halperin]

Karen, do you think that, you think that if the President sends National Guard in that the people of Chicago will be as against it as the mayor and the governor?

[Karen]

Oh, totally. I mean, people around here, around me, and, and they live in these beautiful neighborhoods where there's very little crime. I mean, we have our crime, but it's very little. And they're just going, they're ranting and raving about this.

[Mark Halperin]

Dan, question for Karen.

[Dan Turtine]

Well, Karen, if crime dropped 88%, you know, carjackings were down 88% and nobody was shot for two weeks, how do you think your friends in Chicago would feel?

[Karen]

They would dismiss it? I'm pretty sure they have a narrative about it, and they would dismiss it. They would say, oh, that's not really, you know, that's not. Trump wasn't the reason why. The National Guard wasn't the reason why. I don't know if you guys know, but I'd like to put on the radar these two black women who have a movement called Chicago Flips. Red, I love these women. I support them. They have real. They live in those neighborhoods where this is happening.

[Dan Turtine]

Sean's on Fox with one of them. Yeah.

[Karen]

Yes, yes. And they're great. And they, they need a lot of support and I really admire them. They're brave to go forward in a city where no one listens to them, but they are actually gaining movement and momentum. But this is a real thing. And why the Democrats don't want to face that is frustrating to me.

[Mark Halperin]

Just a little, little news before Sean jumps in. A judge in California ruled that the use of the National Guard and the Marines in Los Angeles violated federal law. It's a district court judge. It'll be appealed. But that ruling is going to get attention today. Sean, question or comment on Care for Karen?

[Sean Spicer]

It's actually a great segue. I mean, I think there's a big problem. As I've said multiple times before the break, D.C. is very unique. Constitutionally. It's a federal district. The president actually controls the national guard in D.C. and so he's using Title 32 to fund this. To do this in. There are two things that the military falls under Title 10, which is the federal operation of the military, which is with the army, the Navy, the Marine Corps. The National Guard falls under Title 32, except when federalized, and then it goes under Title 10. And the president has a lot of leeway in D.C. i think that they will have a very different legal argument if they try to do this. Enforcing a National Guard of a state into a state to do that operation, I think is going to have some legal challenges that confront I go back to what I said earlier. I think that the White House should kind of build this framework out of what they've accomplished in D.C. dan mentioned earlier, Mayor Bowser made some amazing comments about the success of what's going on here and just say, look, we can do the same, but it's your choice. People of Chicago, you need to tell the mayor to request us. Don't force it. Make them come to you. Because if you lose, if you go out and do it the other way and force the troops in, it's not going to end as well. And I think that's the one thing I'll say. And to Mark's point, early on, when I was walking around D.C. and you see a bunch of folks and the same thing's true of Penn Station in New York. When you walk in and you see these guys standing there, there's it just their mere presence reduces people's desire to commit crime. And I think that, that I, I was walking around D.C. i've lived in this area for over 30 years. It actually feels safe walking down the street when you know that there's law enforcement at various blocks. You see the police presence stepped up in a way that it never has been. How they're going to keep this going is probably the biggest challenge that they're.

[Mark Halperin]

Going to face Karen. Thank you. Grateful to you. Please come back. Love having you here. Mike. Welcome intel folks who don't know where you are. What's on your mind for Sean?

[Mike]

Yes, I'm retired federal employee. I retired to Knoxville, Tennessee. I've been watching on YouTube since probably in October. This is the first time I've gone onto the platform and just about me, I am, I've been a lifetime mainstream Republican. I know that's not as many of us anymore, but I continue to be never been maga, voted for Rubio, voted for, well, actually I voted for Bernie in hopes of hurting Biden back in 20. And then I voted for Nikki Haley. But I voted for Trump all three times because unlike Liz Cheney, I'm not going to throw away my principles just to go ahead and be opposition to Donald Trump. Because what Donald Trump does is not everything I like. But a lot of what he does makes a lot more sense than what Democrats are advocating, especially with their views on crime, even on health care and everything else. I just think it's been been pretty, pretty ridiculous. And I just, Mark, I wanted to hope you don't mind, I wanted to pick on you a little.

[Mark Halperin]

Yes, sir. I've had a week off.

[Dan Turtine]

He'd love it. Yeah, I had to go back a.

[Mike]

Week to over a week to do this. I saw a segment you had on Next up with Senator Mark Pryor. I think one of the biggest problems that I think you have pointed out more than anyone else has been the bias of the press. From the first time I was able to vote in 1980 for Ronald Reagan, I thought there was bias of the press. But I've never seen it get as bad. It started really getting bad around George W. Bush and then when it got to Trump, it's got ridiculous. And you've been one of the few that has been on the, you know, getting on the press is that they need to be more fair and balanced because there is no, nothing fair and balanced anymore. So when I watched this interview with Senator Mark Pryor, which I think he was put on to kind of point out what Democrats need to do to do better, I really wish you would have pushed back a little bit more on him because one of the things I heard you always say is when CNN would finally ask a good question, they would never ask a follow up question. So I noticed that Senator Pryor on fundraising, on redistricting, it was like it would start off, oh, both sides do this wrong. But then it was hammering at Republicans. Redistricting needs to go to the Supreme Court because of how Republicans have, have done this. And I wish you would have followed up, especially on the question about the DNC chair where he actually said the DNC chair is doing a good job. I know nothing about the DNC chair. What I know about him, I learned from you and from Dan the last few months. And I don't remember y' all ever really saying anything nice about them. And the fact that you know that I wish you would have pushed back on them. Not to be mean or anything, just say a follow up question. Personally, I think your problem is when you have people who you're friends with and you like, you don't, you know, you know, you want to, you, you want to be, you know, you don't want to push back too hard. But, you know, other than that, I mean, you know, I just wanted to, that was just a feedback I had.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, thank you, Mike. I thought Senator Pryor's position on the current DNC chair spoke for itself. So I didn't think I needed to fight with them about it. I thought it was pretty, it was pretty clear what he was getting at. But I appreciate the critique, Mike. Thank you. Maybe we'll have Senator Pryor on and Mike will join.

[Dan Turtine]

I can, I can attest. Mark pushes back to friends.

[Mark Halperin]

Chris. Chris Simmons, we've missed you.

[Dan Turtine]

Oh, boy.

[Mark Halperin]

We've missed you as much as you've missed us. Chris. Welcome in. Chris lives in Georgia. He probably wants to tell us that John Ossoff's going to win 75% of the vote. But welcome back, sir. What's on your mind?

[Chris Simmons]

Morning. I wanted to just add a little bit of complexity to the discussion around the crime in these cities. I think as usual, Trump has taken a blunt instrument to a very critical, complex issue. Look, like Sean said a minute ago, you know, issues are interlocked. Well, these issues are very interlocked too. First of all, most of the crime that occurs in these crime ridden cities occurs in a fairly compact part of town, usually poverty ridden, usually amongst people who know each other who are involved in some kind of crime. You know, I'm from Memphis. I'm actually visiting right now. There are, there are exits you don't get off of and there are gas station intersections you don't go to at 10 o' clock at night. But I don't think that's what guard is in these cities. And the guard is in the high visibility, nice parts of town, protecting wealthier people, wealthier shops. They're not going to the root cause of the like really Hard to dig out crime stuff. And if Trump really cared about that, he'd work with these states in these cities to give them more police. You know, rather than give tax breaks to the wealthy, why wouldn't he give more police money and tell them you got to put it in your crime ridden neighborhoods? And then there's also the linkage between crime and historical racism in the black community, etcetera, which nobody wants to talk about anymore. And so these are all the reasons, Mark, why if the black folk on the south side of Chicago are so unhappy about crime, let them kick out their mayor who they don't think is doing a good job and elect somebody who they think will go about crime. They're not asking for Trump. And there's a reason why.

[Mark Halperin]

Chris, let me ask you a couple things and then turn you over to Sean. And then Dan, how do you know where the federal forces in D.C. what do you, what are you basing your view? That they're only in the rich areas?

[Chris Simmons]

Based on what I've seen in the news reports. I haven't seen any news reports of them in, in Anacostia.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. And, and do you think it's, it's the, the, the reduced crime is, is a product of what the President's done or not?

[Chris Simmons]

Oh, sure. But again, it's not, it's not in the places where the crime is most prevalent.

[Mark Halperin]

Well, but it's reducing crime.

[Chris Simmons]

Yeah, but, but.

[Mark Halperin]

Is it bad if it's introducing crime in some areas?

[Chris Simmons]

No, it's not, it's not bad. But what's bad is the reason this is how it's being done.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

[Chris Simmons]

And why it's being done.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, Sean.

[Sean Spicer]

Yeah, I actually, my understanding is that they've actually gone into Ward 8, which is Anacostia, and, and stepped up enforcement there. So that's actually, according to the Washington Post, who's definitely no friend of the Right or Donald Trump. They do report that that's there. Secondly, I think what's unique about D.C. is that part of what President Trump is trying to do is especially protect, you know, visitors, tour groups. People are coming to our nation's capital. So, you know, I, I mean, Anacostia does get its share, fair share of tourists. There's some places on Martin Luther King Boulevard that are historical in nature. But, but the large tourist areas are obviously in and around the Mall and in and out of those Metro stations. The same thing when you go to New York City, as I said, when you come into Penn Station or Moynihan Terminal, now you see armed National Guardsmen there as well. I don't know where else they are in New York. But I think obviously part of the reason is because that's a highly trafficked area, a lot of tourists go in there and that there's a degree of, of conveying a sense of safety that's important. So look, I, I will tell you that the people that I know that live in D.C. i've been in several, I'm trying to think of the places in the last 72 hours, 96 hours I've been in D.C. it spans a pretty wide swath of D.C. and I've seen a huge stepped up police presence in every single one of them.

[Chris Simmons]

And Sean, you may be right. They may be going more places, but I'm telling you, I just came back to my, I'm in Memphis from my high school reunion. I was with black folk. Way more black folk in three days than you'll see in three months. Like talking to him, even if, if, even if the crime is going down, they don't like the reason why. They don't like how he's doing it. And you all know, you know, if the wrong neighbor comes by to put out your fire, you might let your house be on a little bit.

[Sean Spicer]

So I guess the point that I would make, Chris, is I get it, but at the end of the day, this is one where this is why politically. So there's a couple different issues. There's the policy and the politics. And what I was trying to articulate a couple times was where I think the White House would be really smart is to just say, hey. And Dan's kind of brought this up a few times, which is if you're Mayor Johnson in Chicago instead of just saying no, and it's not a problem, you had 50 plus of your residents get shipped shot this weekend at some point, instead of saying no, no, no, say, you know what, Mr. President, if you want to help, here are the three things you can do to help me. And then challenge him to say, no, I don't want to do it your way, I want to do it my way. If they were smart, they would take him up on his offer on their terms.

[Chris Simmons]

What they're doing is putting, yeah, I agree with you on the politics of it. On the responses that might get a borderline white person to agree with the Dems and vote with the Dems. And what I'm telling you is the Dems don't have to have the right response for the most of the black folk. Most of the black folk don't like Trump, don't like how he's doing it. They don't need a Dems answer. They got a them answer. And the them answer.

[Sean Spicer]

To be honest with you, is you're right, you probably met and saw. There's no question the number of people of color that you're seeing versus me. But I've gotta believe that they equally care about their sons and daughters, that they equally care about their neighborhood houses, and that at the end of the day, they may not like the way that Trump does. But no one, no matter the color of your skin, wants to go home and worry about bullets flying in your neighborhoods or your house getting hit and ran.

[Dan Turtine]

But that's the problem.

[Sean Spicer]

I had neighbors of all sorts of, you know, stripes. Every single one of them shared that feeling.

[Chris Simmons]

You're trying to prioritize for black people, the logic of why, what they should care about. What I'm telling you is they do care about it, but they hate the way he's doing it and they find it disrespectful. Sean.

[Dan Turtine]

But Chris, Chris, stop right there, though.

[Chris Simmons]

Wait a minute, Dan. Because you don't represent us that well most of the time. It's also tied up with the fact that we believe. And when I say we, I'm Talking to the 85% of black folk that he always attacks black women, he calls them low iq. All that kind of nasty stuff he does is all wrapped up in the response to even when he does a good thing.

[Dan Turtine]

But that's. Chris, that's where you said it. You don't like how he's doing it and you don't like who's doing it. But what the party should be focusing on is the what, which is what is our solution to drive crime down?

[Chris Simmons]

I'm not arguing that.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, but that's where you are.

[Dan Turtine]

Yeah, that's exactly what you're.

[Mark Halperin]

Hold on. Yeah, hold on. We'll keep having the discussion. We got to stop there. Chris, thank you. Appreciate it. And thank you both for engaging with Chris. Sean, what do you have tonight?

[Sean Spicer]

Well, we're going to break down a lot of this stuff with crime and actually the legalization of drugs and so much more. Roger Stone's going to join the show tonight.

[Karen]

Six.

[Mark Halperin]

All right. A couple of two ways. Coming up later today on two Way tonight, Democrat, two of our favorites, Democratic strategist Steve Elmendorf, Republican Beverly Hallberg will cover all the news of the day, 6 Eastern Time. Join us, please. And including the President's 2 o' clock event and then the Moynihan Report at 7. Michael's guest, Douglas Rushkoff, a media theorist and author of Programmed or be programmed? 11 commands for the AI future. Join Michael live 7pm Eastern Time tonight and on Next up, which will drop this afternoon. My guests include the legendary and hard to book Dan Turntine, as well as POLITICO's Josh Gerstein, an expert on all things legal. And my reported monologue on everything I saw while I was off for a week.

[Dan Turtine]

I'll tell you, by the way, it's all about. It's all about Taylor Swift is what it was close.

[Sean Spicer]

I almost had all the numbers and just one off. One off and it would have had the billion plus.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. Lastly, if you want to sponsor this program, you can or any two way program, but particularly if you like the morning meeting, you want to basically own a piece of Sean and Dan, you can send us an email, sponsors at Two Way tv. Tell us who you are, what you're interested in and we can work out something, I'm quite sure. Thank you all for watching. Grateful to you for being part of the two way community. I'll see you at 6, as will Sean. And we'll all see you tomorrow 9am Eastern time right here. Thanks for watching. Thanks for coming back.