Will Trump Send in Troops? Tensions Keep Rising in Minneapolis as Anti-ICE Protesters Push Back Hard

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Morning Meeting

Episode: Will Trump Send in Troops? Tensions Keep Rising in Minneapolis as Anti-ICE Protesters Push Back Hard
Date: January 16, 2026
Host: Mark Halperin (with panelists Larry O’Connor & Jaime)

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Overview of the Episode

This episode dives into the rising tensions in Minneapolis amid anti-ICE protests and speculates on possible federal responses under President Trump, including the potential deployment of troops. The panel reviews the day’s political calendar and developments, from President Trump’s events to international trade, U.S.-China relations, the 2028 presidential race, and shifting dynamics within the Democratic Party. Lively exchanges focus on law enforcement’s response in Minnesota, immigration, and evolving party strategies for the future.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. President Trump’s Schedule & Political Moves

• Unannounced event rumored to involve northeast electricity grid company and several governors at the White House.
• Health care roundtable (10:00 AM ET): Cabinet members and figures like Dr. Oz and RFKJ will discuss health policy.
• Renaming in Palm Beach: Southern Boulevard becomes President Donald J. Trump Boulevard (07:00). Includes discussion of what businesses line the boulevard.
• AI and Education: Melania Trump to deliver remarks at an "AI for Tomorrow’s Leaders" student event.
• House Speaker Mike Johnson in London: Will address the UK Parliament—first time a Speaker’s done so (08:53).

2. Iran and International Tensions

• Ongoing confusion over situation in Iran; unclear status of protests and risk of U.S. action (11:46).
• President seems to be toning down rhetoric but may still act if protests are violently suppressed.
  • "I don't think anybody knows exactly what's going on in Iran." — Larry O'Connor [12:48]

3. 2028 Presidential Field

• Gavin Newsom: Recent podcast exchange with Ben Shapiro on gender identity. Analysis centers on Newsom's tactical evasiveness and political skills—and whether this helps or hurts his national prospects (14:01–19:49).

  • “He’s skilled at being slippery and evasive and not getting nailed down on a politically volatile issue.” — Larry O’Connor [19:49]

• Ro Khanna: Appearance on Hannity criticized for lack of preparation, especially not knowing names of victims cited in immigration debates (24:45–27:41).

  • “He should know those names because he knew he was going to be asked that.” — Jaime [24:50]
  • “I thought it was okay. It was a little disjointed. He wasn’t prepared.” — Larry O’Connor [27:04]

• Andy Beshear: Politico profile suggests he’s vying for the 2028 Democratic nomination, leveraging “Midwest Southern charm.” Panel is mixed on his seriousness as a contender (29:38–31:14).

4. Democratic Party Strategies for the Future

• David Plouffe’s NYT Op-Ed: Warns Democrats about demographic and Electoral College disadvantages; suggests supporting term limits and distancing from current congressional leaders (32:53–36:46).
  • “Every single cycle, this gets a little bit more difficult for Democrats.” — Jaime [33:05]
  • “It’s really easy to be a political genius when Barack Obama is your candidate.” — Larry O’Connor [35:40]

5. Minnesota & Anti-ICE Protests

• Continuing unrest and media focus on the behavior of ICE and protesters, including a detailed breakdown from the New York Times of a police encounter video (36:46–41:04).
  • “Law enforcement officers...do not have the benefit of millisecond by millisecond hindsight.” — Larry O’Connor [41:04]
• The panel debates whether public focus on minute details is helpful or unfair to officers.

6. U.S.-China Relations and Critical Minerals

• Exclusive: U.S. convening allied nations to reduce dependency on Chinese critical minerals—highlighted as a “most important issue on earth right now” (40:38).
  • “A China, Russia, and North Korea partnership is not good for anybody.” — Jaime [41:12]

7. Polling & Political Landscape

• Latest CNN poll: 58% call President Trump’s first year a failure; 64% say he hasn’t done enough to reduce the prices of everyday goods (39:46).
• Discussion of new trade deals and potential threats posed by Canada lowering tariffs on Chinese electric cars (45:55).

8. Listener Participation and Key Questions

• Healthcare Bipartisanship: Listeners and panelists agree the healthcare system is failing, and Trump’s willingness to take on Big Pharma is an opening for real bipartisan action (48:22–51:08).
• The “Phony” Factor in Politics: Several callers express that Democratic frontrunners (Newsom, Harris) come across as inauthentic.
• Law Enforcement & Protest Analysis: Audience queries probe the technicalities and judgment calls in controversial law enforcement incidents in Minneapolis (52:04–54:51).
• Paid Protesters?: Panel acknowledges there are career protesters on both Left and Right, although Jaime and Larry differ on the scale and motivations (62:20).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Gavin Newsom and Trans Issues:
  "What you're admitting is...he won't tell the truth, and he won't admit a basic fact of life." – Larry O’Connor [19:49]
  “People will grab something from this interview and they will say, he was right or he was wrong. He was both.” — Jaime [19:22]

• On ICE/Police Analysis:
  “Law enforcement officers and ICE agents do not have the benefit of millisecond by millisecond hindsight.” — Larry O’Connor [41:04]

• On the Future of the Democratic Party:
  “Every single cycle, this gets a little bit more difficult for, for Democrats. And it seems like...we've got to compete all the time.” — Jaime [33:05]
  “It’s really easy to be a political genius when Barack Obama is your candidate.” — Larry O’Connor [35:40]

• On Political Authenticity:
  “He comes across as very phony. The same problem that I think Kamala had…Trump was very good at saying what he actually thinks.” — Colleen (caller) [48:02]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• President Trump’s Daybook / Schedule: 06:59–09:08
• Iran Update: 11:46–13:27
• 2028 Field (Gavin Newsom, Ro Khanna, Andy Beshear): 14:01–31:14
• Democratic Party Future & Plouffe Op-Ed: 32:53–36:46
• Minnesota/Minneapolis ICE Protests — Media Analysis: 36:46–41:04
• China & Critical Minerals: 40:38–42:15
• Winners and Losers Segment: 42:15–44:44
• Listener Q&A (Healthcare, Authenticity, Use of Force): 48:02–54:51
• Paid Protesters & Panel Reactions: 62:20–63:07

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Winners & Losers of the Week

• Winners:

  • Gavin Newsom (media attention) — Jaime [42:23]
  • CA Republican Voters (polling shows top-2 primary could yield all-GOP general) — Larry [42:54]
  • Chuck Schumer (successfully shaping narrative of a winnable Senate majority) — Mark [43:06]

• Losers:

  • Those hoping for healthcare reform in 2026 — Mark [43:06]
  • Minneapolis (ongoing unrest and economic fallout) — Jaime [44:06]
  • Canadians (as another US team wins the Stanley Cup) — Larry [43:47]

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What to Watch This Weekend

• Developments in Venezuela and oil/gas negotiations
• Continuing crisis and potential troop deployments in Iran
• The outcome of ongoing ICE operations and anti-ICE protests in Minnesota
• “NFL football. This is one of the greatest NFL seasons of all time.” — Mark [45:47]

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Closing Thoughts

The episode provided in-depth yet fast-paced analysis of headline topics and simmering controversies, with strong views and clever banter balanced by direct responses to listener questions. The 2028 race, party strategy, and the intersection of policy, media, and public opinion remain central themes—while the unrest in Minneapolis continues to serve as a volatile flashpoint illuminating nationwide debates over law enforcement, protest, and immigration.

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For further context and ongoing discussion, tune in to coming episodes and catch the panel live weekday mornings on 2WAY.

Transcript

[Mark]

This is it. The world as you know it is over. Completely done. It's not about to be over. It's over. Some of the scientists who helped build AI are now sounding the alarm. I was selling AI as a great.

[Larry O'Connor]

Thing for decades, and I was wrong. I was wrong.

[Jaime]

There's a longer term existential threat that will arise when we create digital beings.

[Mark]

That that are more intelligent than ourselves.

[Jaime]

We have no idea whether we can stay in control.

[Mark]

While others say that AI will usher in unfathomable abundance, I've always believed that it's going to be the most important.

[Jaime]

Invention that humanity will ever make. This really will be a world of abundance.

[Mark]

And among these fears and these fantasies, we seek the story of our future. Listen to the last invention on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon, and this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacey Abrams. Yay. BJ Novak. Yay. Kathy Bates, Dolly Parton, Josh Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows? Maybe he'll show up. Hungry dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless, obsessive compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Whoa. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the morning meeting. It's Friday, January 16th. This program is a little bit different than what you might be used to if you watch cable tv. First of all, when we yell at each other, it's all in the teleprompter. There's nothing spontaneous about the faux anger will show towards each other. Larry o' Connaheim and more are here. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. Another thing that's different. You get to participate. If you want to get in the conversation, raise your hand. If you've never raised your hand, today's the day. You guys, I don't know if you've ever been on an episode where I say, if we don't get three new hands, we're canceling the show. I've done that half dozen a dozen times, and we always get three new hands. The show is always saved in the end. It's never staged. But I'm a little worried about doing. Because we have not had a lot of new hands this week. I won't lie, I've been disappointed. So if you've never raised your hand and you've on here on the platform, please do. If you're watching on x or on YouTube, no smack in the chat. There's been a lot of smack this week. Something about Greenland and Minnesota inspires you all to be rude to each other. And I continue to see. I don't read the chat, but I glance at it. I continue to see personal insults directed to other members of the two way community. I just don't get that. Just don't get it. Have a spirited conversation. Issues, issues, issues. But don't call people names. Thank you for your attention.

[Larry O'Connor]

To that matter, you should try not mentioning smack in the chat.

[Mark]

Oh, I've used, I've used the reverse psychology.

[Jaime]

Doesn't work.

[Mark]

It goes up. See, I, believe it or not, I'm a deterrent.

[Larry O'Connor]

I mean, every time you mention it, I want to put smack.

[Mark]

Yeah, I know. Well, you're.

[Larry O'Connor]

You're compelled.

[Mark]

You are the psychological profile of my nemesis. On this question. People who want to.

[Larry O'Connor]

That's. We've only begun to scratch the surface of that situation.

[Mark]

Anyway, people on television news will always hype the program because they want people to keep watching. So say, oh, very busy news day. We have a lot to get to. In fact, today we do. We have a lot to get to. So we're going to try to speed through everything as quickly and as completely as we can. And then again, we'll get to your question. So please raise your hand if you would like to be in on the conversation. I remind everybody that the good folks at Fairway and Green, our sponsors, our partners, our friends, will allow you to outfit yourself and stuff like what I'm wearing here. Beautifully adorned with the two way logo or not. Golf apparel across the board. They've got five different sub brands, all of which highest quality stuff you've ever worn. I haven't told you in a while. The underwear is fantastic. If you're a guy and you want the most comfortable underwear you ever owned, I've replaced everything I had. Unlike the Clintons, I did not donate it to charity for a tax refund, which they famously did, but long ago. Anyway, Fairway and green Go to Two Way TV. Fairway, 20% off. Everything on the site. Use the promo code. Two Way. 20 for 20% off. And again, if you want golf apparel, whether you golf or not, just nice comfortable clothes, vests and shirts and pants and Underwear. Please go try it out. I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon. And this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people, like Stacey Abrams. Yay. BJ Novak. Yay. Kathy Bates. Dolly Parton. Josh Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows? Maybe he'll show up. Hungry dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless, obsessive compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you. All right, to the Daybook. The President today has an unannounced event, which is, to me, the most interesting thing on his schedule. Breitbart is the new media pool and cba, NBC is the TV pool. The secondary TV pool is scripts. I know they're in the TV business, but kind of. I didn't realize they were in that rotation. I've been paying attention. Here's the schedule. Two public events announced. First of all, right, as we go off the air today, 10 o' clock Eastern Time, the president participates in the great Historic Investment in Health Care roundtable. He'll be joined by the great cabinet tag team of Rollins and Collins. Secretary Collins, Secretary Rollins, Dr. Oz, RFKJ will all be there to talk healthcare. And then at 3:15pm this afternoon, by then, he's down in Palm Beach. They're renaming the Southern Boulevard, which is the airport that goes from the airport to Mar A Lago. And if you've never flown into that airport or driven to Mar a Lago, it's a very short drive. It's a. It's like. It's like going from the Vegas airport to the Strip. They're renaming. They're renaming Southern Boulevard. I mean, in terms of the duration. I wasn't saying anything. Ask you for clarity. They're renaming it Donald Trump. Is it Donald Trump? Michael? Is it Donald Trump Boulevard?

[Jaime]

President Donald J. Trump Boulevard Boulevard.

[Mark]

And, Michael, what's on. What's on Southern Boulevard? What are some things along the way?

[Jaime]

We've got a Subway. There's Mary Lou's cocktail bar.

[Mark]

Okay. All right. Is there a Publix? There's almost certainly a Publix that sells sushi because that's drawn every road in South Florida anyway. He'll be at that now at some point. He's also reportedly, according to Reuters, who broke the story last night, he's doing an event. It's a complicated issue involving getting the company that does a lot of the electricity grid for the Northeast to, I don't know, make stuff more affordable or sell stuff. I don't really understand it and I didn't dig too far into it because I ran out of time. But Governor West Moore and Governor of Ohio Mike DeWine and Governor Shapiro are supposedly at the White House. It's not listed on his schedule, but I believe it's happening. And we'll have full coverage of that, of course. On two Way tonight, Vice President, as is typically the case, don't know what he's up to. Noon, Melania Trump will deliver opening remarks at Zoom. Ahead. AI for tomorrow's leaders, a national student learning experience designed to help K through 12 students understand how artificial intelligence can be used responsively, creatively and confidently. I would like to hear someone explain that to a kindergartner, but she's doing that. And we'll have coverage of that later today. Three top people in the administration are in the Midwest. They're going to do some events in Ohio and then they're going to the Detroit Auto show tomorrow. Something called freedom means. Freedom means affordable cars. If I were doing the PR for this, I'd flip it around. I'd say affordable cars means freedom, but that's just me. This is Sean Duffy, Lee Zeldin and Jameson Greer, the USTR rep. Usdr. Yeah, I need to say Rep. That's twice. Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House, is in London. He's becoming the first speaker of the House to address the British Parliament. Can you believe that's never happened before, guys?

[Larry O'Connor]

It's shocking, actually.

[Mark]

I mean, Tip o' Neill never did it. I wonder what he'll say. I bet he references the, what do we call it, the unique relationship. Special relationship. Special relationship. Special relationship. I bet he references that and probably has some corny jokes about the colonies or something.

[Larry O'Connor]

I want him to wear the wig that the speaker in Parliament wears.

[Mark]

That would be a good photo op. It would be. It'd be like Mike Dukakis. A bipartisan, bicameral delegation of lawmakers. Thom Tillis, Chris Coons, Dick Durbin, Gene Shaheen, Lisa Murkowski, Peter Welch, along with Steny Horror, Gregory Meeks, Madeline Dean, Sarah Jacobs and Sarah McBride are all in Copenhagen on your tax dollar meeting with the Danes and denouncing Donald Trump's attempts to Buy or invade Greenland. And Governor Shaheen, Senator Sheen, I'll always think of her as Governor Shaheen gave a speech this morning. We may show you some of that. And still a lot of chatter about what's going on with Greenland. Tyler Robinson, the man accused of killing Charlie Kirk, has a court hearing today, another pretrial hearing. There's some still photos of him I saw this morning on cable that are just chilling. The look in that guy's face really creeps me out, I will say. All right, here we go. Going to sneak in another word from a sponsor in a moment. And then we're going to. We're going to. We're gonna go nuts. We're gonna talk about everything. Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth. Sorry, I'm a little disorganized here. All right. Cozy Earth. Give you. Also give you 20 off with the promo code 2 WMM. Go to cozyearth.com right now. Right now. Don't delay. Buy the Baja betting set. It's their first match. Completely matched set. It comes with all sorts of things, including some things, frankly, I've never heard of as part of a betting set. But they. That's just me. Luxury bath towel set also available. It's impossibly soft and plush. Again, not really logical. It's not impossibly soft and lush, but I think that's a advertising phrase. The bubble cuddle blanket we've been showing you all week that dogs love the bubble cuddle blanket and you love your dog. So buy one or two for your dogs and. And then, of course, the pants. I'm wearing the pants tonight. To a. To a. It's not a gala. Well, all right, we're doing karaoke with some kids, but I'm wearing them for that anyway. Right now, everything 20% off. Go to cozyearth.com start the new year off right and give your home the luxury it deserves. Make the home the best part of your life. Head to cozy earth.com promo code to W for 20% off. Everything there. Make sure you mention that you heard about Cozy Earth on this very program. All right, gentlemen, here we go. Iran. Iran. The weekends, as far as I can tell, an utter confusion about where things stand. Are the protests still going on? Will there be a US Action? Is the president moving resources to the region for purpose? Is it warning? Jaime, Just where do you think we are?

[Jaime]

Yeah, I mean, look, it's. It's hard. It's hard to say right now, but it seems like the president has, you know, was insinuation that the killings have stopped and et cetera, et cetera. Seems like he is sort of pulling back a little bit on his rhetoric. I'm not sure how he's going to handle this tactically, but it seems like from reports that we've seen, doesn't seem like things have subsided as much as the president is saying right now, and seems like there's still a lot of danger for Iranians. So I think the president and his team are still having very intense conversations as we speak, and the possibility of him going in and doing something is still on the table, I believe.

[Mark]

Larry, two part question. If you could name any road in America after yourself, which road would it be and what do you think is going on in Iran?

[Larry O'Connor]

I would love that. West side highway is still sort of up for grabs. It's shocking that it hasn't been for anyone in Manhattan there.

[Mark]

The Larry o' Connor west side Highway.

[Larry O'Connor]

Yeah. Or Main Street USA at any of the Disney parks would be fine with me.

[Mark]

Good choices. Both good choices.

[Larry O'Connor]

Secondarily, I don't think anybody knows exactly what's going on in Iran. I thought I saw some videos last night of continued protests and my understanding that they are still there. The question really is how violent the reaction to those protests are, because that will be the trigger point for the President. He's made that rather clear. And I think that within the president's team of advisors, they're weighing their options and deciding which ones, frankly, will have the most impact. That's the key here. There's a lot that we can do. What's going to actually make the most impact and be free of any sort of significant retaliation to the US Military assets that are in the air area. And that's not an easy thing to figure out.

[Mark]

All right. All right, gentlemen, in honor of the huge NFL weekend coming up, I'm going to call an audible and go out of order here. There's a ton of important topics to get to. There's some I desperately want to hear from you two guys on. So I'm going to jump out of order. All the same topics. But here we go with 2028 people. Some people say, why are we talking about 2028? We could be talking about Minnesota or healthcare. Because I want to. Gavin Newsom was on had Ben Shapiro on his podcast. And like any good guest on Gavin Newsom's podcast, Ben turned the tables and started interviewing Gavin Newsom. It happens almost every episode. You know why? Why is that?

[Larry O'Connor]

Because Gavin Newsom is not a podcast host. He's a governor and a Politician.

[Mark]

That's part of the, Part of the reason. But like, but like Ezra Klein did it too. It's just a natural thing.

[Jaime]

I think he sort of likes that too, a little bit more.

[Mark]

I totally agree. Yeah, I totally agree. But, but I listen to the show and it happens every time. And all of a sudden. And then, and then one of them be like, hey, this is your show. Haha. But Governor, let me ask you 10 more questions. And anyway, Ben, Ben, it's a long thing. I recommend the whole thing to you, but Ben Shapiro initiated a long colloquy. We're gonna watch the whole thing about. About Can. Can a boy become a girl? And as soon as I saw it, I said, put up my tweet first. As soon as I saw it, I said, I know exactly what's gonna happen. I'm gonna get messages from people who say, that was great. It shows you how great Gavin Newsom is. And I'm getting messages that say, this shows why this guy will never be president. You make the call, as they say on whatever that thing was called. Here it is. It's long watch the whole thing. And then Larry and Heim are going to tell you if that was a newsome at his finest or foreshadowing doom. Roll tape. Fundamental question that lies at the root of all of this is the question that you're not wanting to answer, which is whether boys can become girls. Yeah, I just don't. Well, I think for the grace of God.

[Larry O'Connor]

Yeah.

[Mark]

I mean, I appreciate the sympathy.

[Larry O'Connor]

Why.

[Mark]

I also feel terrible for. Listen, anybody who's suffering with any sort of. I mean, I think it's mental or physical, but generations for time immemorial, I, you know, God bless. I just, I, I don't know. I just don't understand why. I don't know why. This is a hard one. Why is it such a. I'm. I'm curious. I understand the political potency of it. It's not politically potent, but it's just how so few. We're talking about so few people. It's not about that. That are, that are struggling with, with, With a lot of remarkable people, a lot of wildly successful people, and they've gone in their life, have incredible lives. I just, I don't know. There's so much hate and bigotry, so much condemnation. This is the part where I start to object. Yeah. Okay. The idea that you may not be spewing it. No, no, no. Like some others, trust me. But the app. This is the business. There, there are lots of Terrible people who say lots of terrible things. But yes, it is not an act of bigotry to say that a boy cannot become a girl.

[Jaime]

Nor should my children be taught in.

[Mark]

K through 12 public schools that a boy can become a girl. That is not an act of bigotry. That's an act of rationality and biological simplicity. I respect your point of view and you know, but good people disagree on this. I know, but. And a lot of states, not just California, well established rules, by the way, that predate me. Again, this is not where I started. We're campaigning and advocating on these issues, as some suggest. And, and look, I'm with the governor, Governor Spencer Cox, who said about many.

[Jaime]

Of these issues, never so much attention.

[Mark]

Been placed on so few people. The problem is, I think that on.

[Larry O'Connor]

An electoral level, to go to the.

[Mark]

Politics, it is a barrier to entry for a lot of people. I agree with that. I agree with boy can become a girl and then just. I do agree on a realistic, and.

[Jaime]

I, by the way, and I respect.

[Mark]

If that's your barrier to then listening to people on a myriad of other.

[Jaime]

Issues, so be it.

[Mark]

It is what it is. I just find it, I find it strange that even if you wish to have a public policy that pursues something different, we cannot just admit that boys and girls are two different things and that a boy cannot become a girl. Why is this so difficult? Yeah, I understand your point of view and you know, and I also respect Caitlyn Jenner. You know I do. And not respect for individuals. Well, no. Okay, I'm gonna tip my hand before I ask Kaima then, Larry, what you think. Make this finger my interlocutor and this finger will be me. Mark, did you rob the subway on President Donald J. Trump Avenue? There but for the grace of God. I love Caitlyn Jenner. I, I just. Anyway, Jaime, if you looked at that, uh, would you say, well, that man is destined for the Oval Office, or would you say this, this shows why there's so many doubters?

[Jaime]

Look, you guys, I, I, I, I very rarely disagree with the great Governor Gavin Newsom, but I do not respect Caitlyn Jenner and not because of her, her gender, but because her politics and I just don't like her. But look, I, I, I think you, your tweet was right on par, Mark. I think people will get from this what they want. He was, you know, as a, because this is the beginning of the primary, the mini primary, I think he was fairly politically astute to not go on the record and have A specific opinion on this, but I agree with Gavin Newsom. This is a conversation that I think has. Has taken a. A world of his own. Of his own.

[Mark]

And.

[Jaime]

And I think we're spending far too much time talking about people's gender. I don't understand it. I'm not looking to change my gender. I'm a male. But it doesn't matter. I don't have to understand it. I, quite frankly, I don't care if particularly an adult has made a choice to transition. Now, when we talk about children, we talk about gender affirming care. That's a different conversation. But the right to choose your gender and to move forward, transitioning, that's your choice. I don't want to be in your bedroom. I don't want to be in your doctor's office. Quite frankly, I don't want to talk about it. And so I think Gavin Newsom is setting Democrats up for that conversation. Out of my bedroom, out of my house. And it's not your business. And I. And I completely agree with that. Granted, once.

[Mark]

I got to stop you, I apologize. I appreciate all that. Interesting to me, how do you think the governor did in explaining his point of view?

[Jaime]

I thought if he were.

[Mark]

If you were his advisor, would you want to do over or you thought that was great?

[Jaime]

No, I wouldn't want to do over. I did not. I think it was great. I mean, I watched you a second ago. You did a little shifting. It did feel like he was shifting a little bit. But to your point of your tweet, I think everyone will grab something from this interview and they will say, he was right or he was wrong. Yeah, he was both.

[Mark]

And I will say one of the smartest Republican strategists I know texted me and said, I thought that was amazing. That shows that that guy's got game. Larry, I bet I know what you're going to say, but surprise us all.

[Larry O'Connor]

Well, with respect to those who think that this show Gavin Newsom had game and that this was a great performance. Performance. I think what they're conceding is that Gavin Newsom is skilled at being slippery and evasive and not getting nailed down on a politically volatile issue. And yes, that may be a political tool that is phenomenal and he should be praised for it. But what you're admitting is, aha. See, he won't tell the truth, and he won't admit a basic fact of life. And that's what this really does boil down to. We are not talking, Jaime, with respect to. About someone's personal choice and what they choose to do with their lives. We're talking about public policy. He is a governor of a state that has some of the most radical laws in favor of transgender rights. And what he just did there, in his very slippery way, was lie. He has actually overseen and signed into law incredibly restrictive laws with regard to parents rights. He championed making California a transgender sanctuary state for. For minors crossing state lines to go to that state to get procedures that their parents back in their home state won't allow them to have. It's absolutely outrageous. And when he said, I didn't campaign on this stuff. The first time anyone ever heard Gavin Newsom's name was when he defied state and federal law to marry same sex couples in San Francisco. He has been riding the tide of support from the LGBTQ community for years now. So it's disingenuous. Everything that he said. He's trying to slip away from this, but he won't, ultimately, because most people that don't subscribe to the Gavin Newsom podcast see that and see it for what it is. He is terrified of the LGBTQ+ community, organized funding groups like Human Rights Campaign not approving of his message on this, and he's hoping that other people won't notice.

[Jaime]

Larry, I don't think he's terrified. I think. I think that's the MAGA boogeyman that you guys are trying to plant. I think he. He just has a genuine concern for. For those in that community, and I think that's fine. You don't have to be afraid, you know, and look, and I think the issues of lesbian and bisexual and gay are totally different than trans issues. And so I first heard.

[Larry O'Connor]

I do too.

[Jaime]

He became the mayor of San Francisco in a sweeping win. It wasn't about him marrying same sex couple couples. It was about him just being a really cool young person.

[Larry O'Connor]

Well, but I'm talking about his national profile.

[Mark]

In my heart, I want to spend the hour on Gavin Newsom, but we can't. I'll just say, sorry, we gotta move. I apologize. I'll just say, in conclusion, Governor Newsom, meet me, camera two. Come on. Come on the show and tell us if you want to do a do over. If you're watching now, call in because we'd love to you to say whether you'd want to do do or two guys, one more. Two more guys for 20, 28. Two guys who my sources differ with so widely. Are they real? Are they not? Will they be contenders or will they not? One is Ro Khanna and And one is Governor Bashir. And both of them in the news today. Ro Khanna did Hannity last night and we want to show you two moments from that. And then Larry Jaime, same question. Does this show that this guy's got game or does this show this guy's got some trouble? Here's a. I would call a weaker moment with Hannity. 113. Please get to defend that position, Pennsylvania Congressman Ro Khanna. All right, I have a couple of questions. He's from California here, but okay, since Tim Walls has been president, a number of people in Minnesota. Tim Walls isn't president. By fact checking Hannity, Biden and Harris Mayorkas illegal. Hold on. What happened? I know there were three named, three killed. Stop, Stop it, stop it, stop it, stop it, stop it, stop it. You got to either go back or let me explain it. Hannity asked me if he. Okay, go ahead. Here to defend that position, Pennsylvania Congressman Ro Khanna. All right, I have a couple of questions just to set the table here. Since Tim Walls has been president, a number of people in Minnesota have been killed by Biden and Harris Mayorkas, illegals that were allowed into the country. Can you name one of those people? I know there were three named, three killed. And my heart goes out to them. I appreciate that. Do you know the name of any of them? I don't know the name off the top of my head. No, but that, but okay, I have another question. Let me just, let me just say this. I condemn the murder. I condemn the murder. And I don't think that if you've committed a violent crime that you should be in this country. I have no problem. And I do believe that deportation of people who killed folks like Lake and Raleigh, they don't belong in this country. And that has been my. I appreciate that. Okay, before we show the second clip, Hyman, just real quick, should he know those names either on the merits or should his staff prepare him the way that we tell him how much a gallon of milk costs?

[Jaime]

I'm always about being prepared. So I think he should know those names because he know and he was going to ask that.

[Mark]

I agree. All right, here's another clip. Bite from the interview 114, please. No, but because I believe that the ones who are criminals should be deported, but not. You could have stood up for their families and you should be able to put out the names of the people that were murdered. You should care about getting rid of pedophiles, murderers, rapists, traffickers, gang members, pedophiles. The Epstein last night an Officer was assaulted. Last night, an officer was assaulted by three illegals from Venezuela. Do you even give a rip? Do you even care? Of course I do. Of course that. And you don't think it's connected to the rhetoric of the. Of your party leaders? You don't think any of that's connected? Sean, what I want to do is say that as Americans, we need to come together. There's been heated rhetoric on both sides. Let's de. Escalate it. Let's understand that most people who are law enforcement, let them do their job.

[Jaime]

But do it constitutionally.

[Mark]

Do you want them. They are giving it constitutionally.

[Jaime]

You.

[Mark]

Okay, let me ask you this, Sean. You don't think they have done any violation in terms of the way they're acting with American citizens? You really. I would argue in law enforcement, 99.9% are good. There's always a bad apple. If you give me. All right, Larry. A lot going on here. First of all, the choice to go on Hannity, and then. And then, you know, the combative stuff. I will say about Ro Khanna. There are many people in. He's a very likable guy, very nice man. There are Jewish Americans in my life, billionaires in my life, and members of Congress, Congress in my life, who detest him now and think he's a complete phony and unprincipled. And it's an interesting place to be because it shows people are paying attention to him. But in any event, based on that performance, what would you say about Ro Khanna's potential to be the Democratic nominee.

[Larry O'Connor]

To be the Democrat? So based on the voting pool in the Democratic primaries, I don't think he gets any credit or any sort of kudos for going on Hannity and going on Fox News in general. I will always give a Democrat support for doing that and going into hostile territory. But I think, sadly, most of the voters in the Democrat primaries and caucuses think that it's, you know, a propaganda machine.

[Mark]

What did you think of his performance? What did you think of his performance?

[Larry O'Connor]

I thought it was okay. I thought it was a little disjointed. He wasn't prepared. And it's so clumsy when. When facing the fact that there are, you know, illegal alien criminals who have been arrested for pedophilia here in the country to say, oh, yeah, but the real problem is Epstein, it's like that's just a groaner. I think when people look at that, if you're really concerned about safety in our streets. And I think that he was, frankly, wasn't prepared really for backing up the allegations that he was making to Hannity, like, you know, suggesting that they are acting in an unconstitutional manner, but not actually giving one example of anything that ICE is doing that's unconstitutional.

[Mark]

Jaime, how do you do?

[Jaime]

Look, I thought he was ill prepared, but here's, here's, here's the thing. I'm hearing Ro Khanna's name more and more every day. Two names I've heard a lot this week. Ro Khanna and AOC and so I, I think Ro Khanna is starting to get some traction regardless of if he was ill prepared or, you know, didn't, didn't do well in answering these questions. We're talking about him. He's being talked about and he's becoming a really a real potential candidate for presidency. I don't, I don't. He will, he will not be the nominee. I don't think he will. You know, I'll bet on that right now. But he's going to be a part of this conversation for quite some time and I think he's getting some reps in. And look, Larry, I, as a person who goes on Fox News fairly often, I disagree with you. I get a lot of kudos from my Democratic friends. I think you have a really misinformed picture of what the Democratic electorate looks like and you kind of want to swath everybody as, you know, these raging liberals who are anti everything that's conservative. That's just not true. Perhaps this is not. It's not true.

[Mark]

Well, hold on, hold on.

[Larry O'Connor]

If I can just explain why I think that, that because during the Democrat primary process, when Democrat voters are going to the primaries to choose their candidate for the last two election cycles, 20 and 24, the candidates did not go on Fox News during that primary process. And I think there was Fox News.

[Jaime]

I mean, of course you don't want to go on there and just be.

[Mark]

Lambashed for hours every day if AOC doesn't run and you're bearish on Rokhanna, who will be in the Sanders lane, Who will win the super progressives if AOC doesn't run, if not Ro Khanna?

[Jaime]

I don't know. That's a question that a lot of, a lot of Democrats have been talking about the last couple of days and we don't know. And I think that's why AOC is thinking about it more. She's becoming a little bit more of a 20, 28 potential because there's no other rock star in that lane right now that can, that can that can, can really take that wing and run with it. Yeah.

[Mark]

And so all right, Andy Beshear let Jonathan Martin come hang out with him in the Governor's Mansion in Frankfurt. Long piece in politico about this is 119, please, about his interview where he leans very hard into the notion that he's running. And basically what seemed to be going on was the Beshear people are saying we got to get the donors and the activists to understand we're in, we're going to run. And he takes a few swipes at Newsom but then backs off a little bit. But anyway, Taima, and when you read that piece in totality, did it make you feel like Bashir is a stronger candidate and has a better theory of the case here or no change in your view?

[Jaime]

Andy Bashir is going to run and he is running.

[Mark]

And, but wait, but, but did that article make you think he's got a theory of the case of being the nominee?

[Jaime]

I know. I think he, I think he has some, some theory of the case. I, it's too early to, to, to know if it's going to be a good theory right now. But here's Andy Bashir is one of the, the few, like Gavin, who's not up for reelection. And so he's got to keep himself in the, in the conversation piece as much as possible. And so he's going to try to be creative, he's going to try to raise money, he's going to try to go out there and campaign. I mean, he's, he's really well spoken. He's very smart and astute, and he does have that sort of everyday man, you know, Midwest Southern charm that I do think resonates really well with a certain part of the, of the party. Look at Michigan, look at Georgia, look at Pennsylvania. And so I think he will end up being someone who will stick around for, for, for a little bit, but I don't think he's going to be the nominee.

[Mark]

Okay, Larry, did that piece make you more bullish or bearish on his chances of being the nominee?

[Larry O'Connor]

It didn't affect it either way, I'm pretty bearish on it. The best thing he's got going for him is that he's won in a statewide in a state like North Carolina. So I will wait to see what the primary schedule is and what states are lined up before I know one way or the other.

[Mark]

All right. Important, important story in the Washington Post, a really good point about the calendar process. Nobody knows. Even Donna Brazil can tell you how this is going to end up. But there's about a dozen states that are thinking they'd like to be in the top five. I think Iowa is going to have to have some confluence of factors to get in there, back in there. But, but the other, the other traditional early states seemed like strong candidates, but then there's some others as well. And a few states like Georgia continue to, I think, be in a fantasy world because they have to get the Republican legislature to move it, and it's just not going to happen. So we'll see there. David Plouffe has an op ed piece in the New York Times. If you haven't read it, you should, in which he says basically the party's kidding itself because the demographic changes in the states, the Electoral College and the Senate are getting harder for Democrats to win. Kamala Harris, if a Democrat in 2028 wins the states that Kamala Harris one last time, it's not, you know, it's just not enough. Even if she wins more of the states, even if the Democrat wins more than she won, both the Electoral College and the Senate map tilt against the Democrats. And what he says is if a party wants to really be able to stop MAGA from coming back to make fundamental changes in the country, the party has to change to be able to win over more voters, including competing in these red states, which are currently out of reach. Two things that he supports in there. One is term limits. I've never known David Plouffe to support term limits before. Maybe I missed it. But the other thing is he basically says, if you're running for Congress, you should say you don't support Hakeem Jeffries or Chuck Schumer. You got to be for fundamental change. You cannot be for the status quo. So, Jaime, you first. It's your party. What did you think of that Pluff peeve? How are people reacting to it? In my world, a lot of Democrats are annoyed by it for various reasons.

[Jaime]

Yeah, there's a lot of hair on fire after this. Look, I met Plouff in 2008 when I was a baby intern at DNC. So I've had, I have a lot of respect for, for him and his, his political mind and, and obviously he did all he can to help pull Kamala Harris back from the abyss last year. Look, I tend to generally agree with this framework and this is something that, that I've been saying, you know, for the last few years. In order for us to, to start Democrats to start winning again, we've got to expand the coalition and you think it back to the, to the Obama coalition and how diverse that coalition was. So we've got to do that. That's really important. 1. Secondly, he's talking about generational change. He's talking about being, you know, honest about, about those things. I think that's very important. Term limits could be something that, you know, both on the local, state and federal level can be something that encourages people to stay involved in the process. When you see individuals who, and, you know, I love Lita Hoyer, but he's been around a little bit too long and it's time for him to retire. He probably should have retired a few Congresses ago. And what happens in states like Maryland and other states like that, the people become less involved in the political process and they just don't really care about voting for the same Democrat who's been in office for six years. That's one, two. There has been some conversation on the ground, and I knew that this was going to be brewing around about disavowing Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries. I think that in some ways could be a winning message. Hakeem Jeffries is going to disagree. You know, he doesn't want to bring in a bunch of new Democrats who are going to come in and potentially, you know, say that he shouldn't be the speaker if they do win the House back. We saw that with Pelosi the last time. And it's very uncomfortable when you bring in new Democrats who don't necessarily have that much loyalty to you or who ran against your record through throughout the midterm. And then lastly, I think from a political perspective, he's, you know, looking at the Electoral College, looking at the Senate map. Every single cycle, this gets a little bit more difficult for, for Democrats. And it seems like, you know, if we want to go and compete in Montana, we want to go compete in Maine in this race, we've got to compete all the time. It's not just about these federal and these congressional elections, these mayoral elections. You guys know I'm a big mayor person. These gumatorial elections, these school board elections, which Republicans have done a, an outstanding job of doing, we've got to do that. So it's going to take about 10 to 15 years to really rebuild the party. And I think a lot of people are just not ready to commit to that. But that's just the reality. Yeah.

[Mark]

Larry, is David Plouffe talking sense or smack? I.

[Larry O'Connor]

You know, it's really easy to be a political genius when Barack Obama is Your candidate.

[Mark]

Oh, my God, I can't believe how many people have said that to me in the last 24 hours. He got Bob Torricelli elected.

[Larry O'Connor]

It's very easy to be a political genius when your candidate is a Democrat in New Jersey. Jaime is correct in that the Democrats need to get back to building a coalition in this country similar to what they had under Barack Obama. But I think that that coalition had less to do with Barack Obama's policies than it had to do with his political skills and the fact that he was a magnetic, transcendent political figure that attracted a lot of people that normally would not have voted for the policies he ended up enacting. I don't think the Democrats have that. And the main fundamental reason, which I didn't hear enough of in David Plouffe's article, is that this party has been defined for a decade now around one message, which is Trump is a monster and he must be stopped at all costs. And competing with David Plouffe's advice yesterday was this leaked audio of a congresswoman in Colorado saying, yeah, if we get the majority, we're going to start impeachment process. So here we go all over again.

[Mark]

Okay, I will say we're going to move on. And I got an idea to streamline what we do here. I will say David PL Is one of the smartest people I've ever met in politics, so take that for what you wish, but he's in the top five of all the people I've ever met in both parties. All right, I'm going to run through some news on a bunch of stuff. You guys can comment that on one of. One of each. You can pick off the buffet what you want to comment on. And then we'll do winners and losers and what to expect this weekend and then to your question. So please raise your hand if you want in on the conversation. Let's see. The New York Times has a long video in which they. They do a very good job technically of breaking down the question. We're not going to show it because it's too long. Breaking down the question of whether the shooter in Minnesota was. Was hit by the car. I'm sorry, Whether he was knocked over. They really have a fetish for whether he was knocked over as opposed to hit. But I do recommend it to you because they do a good technical job of showing all the angles. Whatever. It seems like he was hit, but not necessarily knocked over. Again, I don't know why they're concerned so much whether he was knocked over. Axios really important reporting here by Mark Caputo on OutSizenStat, 107 people have created this false choice. Is Trump going to double down on defending his immigration policy in the ICE operation in Minnesota or are they going to change things? And the answer is both. And great reporting from Mark Caputo and Alex, which is a poll that they got back in December shows, but the public poll show, which is this is not popular. And so what I think this reporting suggests is what you're going to see, which is they're going to continue to be on the offense. Homans last night on Fox said, why don't we have a public display of people who heckle and challenge and bother and assault ICE officers and publish their names and faces and they're going to continue to talk about all the people who've been killed by illegal immigrants in Minnesota. But I think you may also see them trying to get television pictures that bother the president less. And this article is right. The president doesn't like to see that violence on camera, both politically and attitudinally. So there's that. If you haven't read Bob Rubin's op ed piece of the Wall Street Journal about why business leaders are not speaking out, I strongly recommend it to you. Bob doesn't speak publicly all too often these days, but it's a very strong piece. Here's some reporting, I think from Bloomberg112. This is really important and interesting development. 1:12, please exclusive. The US will convene dozens of foreign ministers from allied countries next month to pursue an agreement to reduce their dependency on Chinese critical minerals. This is in some ways the most important issue on earth right now. If you think the most important issue is competing with China and beating China. So this meeting is interesting and of course next week is Davos. President has two interviews next week on Tuesday night with News Nation. And then Joe Kernan is interviewing the president. The president speaking at around this time time on Wednesday in Davos, around this time Eastern time. And then and then giving an interview to Joe Kernan. So we'll have two Trump interviews to look forward to next week. And then finally, here's some new polling data from two more things. Here's some new polling data from CNN in line with all the other public and private polling dating we've seen. 58% say President Trump's first year is a failure. Of course, four days away from the anniversary, 55 say his policies have worsened economic conditions, 32 say they've made an improvement. 64% says he hasn't gone far Enough to reduce the prices of everyday goods. And only 36% say the president has the right priority. Some of my democratic friends would ask who those 36% are. And then lastly on Venezuela, the CIA director, apparently, according to the New York times, this is 118, went down to Venezuela and had met with the Venezuelan interim president. Quote, the high profile visit, which could be seen as snubbing the opposition, you think comes nearly two weeks after the US Military seized President Nicolas Maduro in a raid. All right, each get to comment on one of those topics. Larry.

[Larry O'Connor]

On the New York Times article. In the analysis of the video, they literally say in their subhead that they did a millisecond by millisecond analysis of the video. It's atrocious and unfair. Law enforcement officers and ICE agents do not have the benefit of millisecond by milliseconds second hindsight. And so the analysis, no matter what forensically it proves, does not get in the mind of an agent who fears for his life.

[Mark]

I had the exact same.

[Larry O'Connor]

These are human.

[Mark]

I had this, I had, I had the same reaction. I'm not sure what they think they were proving. Jaime, one, one, one comment.

[Jaime]

Yeah, I, I am, I am very much so watching this critical, critical minerals discussion. You guys know, and I say this all the time here. I think China is one of our, if not the biggest threat to our democracy and to the world. And I, I, one of the things, and I can give the President some, some, some, some credence, but I think, you know, his focus on, on, on preparing the country to, you know, fight against China in whatever way it is, is, is going to be really important. I'm happy he's paying attention to it. I thought, you know, for, for a few months that he just wouldn't, wouldn't do anything around, around this issue, but it seems like he's taking it more seriously. I'm happy about that. You know, this, I mean, China is getting bigger and stronger every day. And a China and a Russia and a North Korea partnership is not good for anybody. And so I support the President in, in preparing us to, to take on China and to emerge as the world superpower in a strategic and smart way. But it's happening really, really fast.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Jaime]

And this critical minerals discussion is in the, in the center of that.

[Mark]

Well said. All right, here we go, guys. Rapid here. Let's get to questions. Winners, losers, what to look for this weekend. I'm a winner of the week.

[Jaime]

You know, I, I'm going back and forth on this. I Still think another week for me. Gavin Newsom's still the winner of the week. And I'm saying this because with all the things that are happening in the world, all the things that the president's focused on, all the things happening in Minnesota, we still managed to talk about Gavin Newsom from several angles pretty much every day this week, and lunch, dinner, you know, in coffees. And so I think politically, he is still emerging as the winner of the week. I'm not sure how much longer this is going to last, but.

[Mark]

Okay, Larry. Larry, Winner.

[Larry O'Connor]

A winner is Republican voters in California because the latest poll for governor shows the two top vote getters are both Republicans. Based on their jungle primary rules, the general election ballot could be between two Republicans. Republicans.

[Mark]

Okay, Loser of the week is people who want to see health care reform. The president put out a thing that's going nowhere. Reconciliation. I'm told by my best sources, it's going nowhere. If you want there to be health care reform this year, you have lost because there's no momentum for it whatsoever. But I supposed to do my winner of the week, was I. That was my loser. My winner of the week. Sorry, I jumped ahead. I'll do them both once. Chuck Schumer's winner of the week, he conned the media into thinking there's a path for a Senate majority. He's got his four races, he's got his talking points. He can go to donors now and say, look, I was on Morning Joe, look, I was interviewed in Politico, and look, we have a path to majority. I'm not saying he's going to get to the majority, but he's. He's conned everybody now for months now to thinking they should give money to his candidates and he can win. That's my winner and my loser combined. Larry. Loser.

[Larry O'Connor]

You can cynically call him a winner for that if they're going to get the campaign cash coming in. The loser of the week are Canadians because they had to sit back one more time and see an American hockey team celebrated at the White House with the Stanley Cup. It's just gotta burn those Canadians that they can't win the Cup.

[Mark]

I agree. I'm a loser of the week.

[Jaime]

Well, so, you know, Chuck Schumer hasn't been called a winner in quite some time. So I know.

[Mark]

There you go.

[Jaime]

Play this, Mark. So good job. Look, I think the leader, I. It's. It's the city of Minneapolis, not the entire state, but the city of Minneapolis, which has already been in sort of a fraught position pre Covid leading to Covid. The city. I've been there many, many times. I was just there a couple months ago has not it never recovered from COVID You know, and so this is what's happening right now in that city is going to just further exacerbate the problems of that city and it's going to put it in a position to not recover. And, you know, we have several Fortune 500 companies that are headquartered there. And so I'm just really nervous about the future of Minneapolis.

[Mark]

Good call. All right, what to look for this week in Jaime?

[Jaime]

Well, one, let's see what happens in Venezuela. If anything shifts there. I'm watching. Keep an eye on the conversation around the oil and gas companies. And that seems to be heading in the direction I thought it would be. They're going to stall with them a little bit. The critical conversation and what's happening in Greenland. And that's going to be a conversation that I think we will want to want to hear more about. And then lastly, you know, I think at some point, Minnesota, Minneapolis is going to get oversaturated with ice. And all the things that are going on, I want to know, like what's the president's next step? They seem to think that things have gone well in my home state of Louisiana, which I'm very proud of the National Guard and the work they did during the holiday. But I want to see what's going to happen with these ice rays in other states and how the president goes forward with this.

[Larry O'Connor]

Larry, still watching Iran, especially considering the military action the president took did happen over the weekend against Venezuela. And maybe that's something that is a pattern for them.

[Mark]

The responsible thing for me would be, say, Iran. But since Larry said it, I'm watching NFL football. This is one of the greatest NFL seasons of all time. So I'll be doing that. All right.

[Larry O'Connor]

Especially now that the Eagles are out of it.

[Mark]

Exactly. That makes so much better, makes everybody happier. Most of us. All right, one more piece of news and then a word from a sponsor, then to your questions. AP reporting the breaking with the United States. Canada has agreed to cut its 100% tariff on Chinese electric cars in return for lower tariffs on Canadian farm products. If, if the Chinese are going to start buying Canadian agriculture and the Canadians are going to buy Chinese electric cars, that is horrible news for the United States. Horrible news because the Chinese are prepared to dominate electric cars in every market in the world and they already are dominating a lot of countries. And if they start to dominate Canada, I'm Telling you folks, this is a serious development. We'll see how the White House reacts to that. All right, quick message from a sponsor, then to your questions. Right now, everybody wants some free money. Who would say no to that? Do what I've done. Download the Upper side app and get back free cash from restaurants, gas stations, supermarkets, wherever you shop. The app will show you places in your neighborhood that or where you are traveling that allow you to get the cash back. All you do is download the app, say where you're shopping, use your credit card as normal, get any other points that you get. But this isn't points. This is cash back. Upside app works in over a hundred thousand places around the country. They've already paid people who use the app 100. A billion. Over a billion dollars. They pay out a million dollars cash back every single week, unlike other programs. Again, you can use it with your existing loyalty programs, your, your existing credit card, rebates. Whatever you want to do, I recommend you just do it and take the money. Don't be. Don't be proud. Upside. It's available now to download for free. And if you use the promo code, Mark, you'll get an extra 25 cents back on your first gallon of gas that you use with Upside. So again, go to Upside down. Download it, use the promo code, Mark. Get some more free extra money. Thank you very much for your attention to that matter, and you're welcome for the money. Colleen, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are and what's on your mind for Jaime and for Larry. And thank you for being part of Two Way. Hi, Mark. Hi, guys. How are you doing? Great. I was going to talk to you about health care, but quickly about Gavin Newsom. I think he. I'm a Democrat, but he comes across as very phony. The same problem that I think Kamala.

[Jaime]

Had, which was she thinks what people.

[Mark]

Want to hear instead of saying what she actually thinks. And I think Trump was very good, is very good at saying what he actually thinks. Yeah. Remind people where you live, Colleen. Long Island, New York. Yes, ma'. Am. God's country. Yes, the good coast. Sorry, go ahead.

[Larry O'Connor]

Yes.

[Mark]

About health care, I know Trump's policy is not. I think everybody agrees that it's not going to work, but the idea that he's willing to take on Big Pharma and the health insurance companies is something I think Democrats should seize on and say, we will work with you on that.

[Larry O'Connor]

Great.

[Mark]

No one else has been able to do that.

[Larry O'Connor]

As I've said, I think in the.

[Mark]

Show with Mike Lawler. Before I lived in Europe for many years. The health care is far superior. People love it, and no one would swap with us. And we spend, again, everybody knows this, about $14,000 a person on health care in this country. We have worse outcomes than Europe and everywhere else in the western civilized world. And they spend about 6,000 per person. And I think if Democrats and Republicans, when I'm in the dog park speaking to both, health care is a huge issue. And if Trump is willing to take these guys on, I would jump on it if I was a Democrat. Yes, we'll work with you. So great framing, Colleen, Larry and then Jaime, you're right.

[Larry O'Connor]

And it's a weird position for the Democrats and the fringiest part of their base to be in because, you know, the fringiest part of the left, you know, celebrate this mangione assassin for killing a CEO of a health care company because the health insurance companies are the devil. But the truth is that Obamacare and the Affordable Care act, led by the Democrats, wrote and written by the Democrats and supported unanimously by the Democrats, are the ones that have created this monster in the health insurance companies. And it is a lane that the Republicans following Trump could seize here and really be a problem. So you're very prescient, Colleen. I agree with you.

[Mark]

But Obama tried to take them on. He couldn't. He tried to take. They mostly backed. They mostly backed off because they didn't think they could pass the Affordable Care act, taking all those fights. They took on a few, but they mostly let them off. Hi, Ma.

[Jaime]

Yeah, Colleen, you. Larry was agreeing with you until you said Europe has better health care than we have, and his head almost blew up.

[Mark]

I lived there 15 years. I know they do.

[Jaime]

No, but I thought that was a very astute question. I think, Mark, we talked about this a little while ago. Yes, I agree. I think, you know, I talk to people all the time in Louisiana and Georgia and some of these red states, and, and one of the things that they always talk about are the costs of prescription and how, how expensive these drugs are, particularly those areas who have high diabetes and things you have to take every day. And so I think you're absolutely right. I think this will be a winning issue across the board. I do think there are some Democrats that are trying to, to formulate this message and this framework and sort of use it as a, as a, as a piece to run on during the midterms. This is an issue that could be really bipartisan. I think you're absolutely right about It. And I think if President Trump was a little bit more forceful, he could bring probably a whole slew of Democrats into the conversation.

[Mark]

100%. He could do it. He's the one who can get, you know, done. Yeah. Colleen, thank you. Really well framed. And grateful to you for asking the question. Thank you. Wickham. Welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind. And nice fairway and Greenpeace you got there. Yes, yes, yes.

[Larry O'Connor]

Santa Claus was nice to me.

[Mark]

How's it, how's it fit? Looks like a perfect. Looks like you had it tailored. Yeah. Holly likes it because it's more form fitting than normal. Quarter zips.

[Larry O'Connor]

They just hang like sacks.

[Mark]

This is more form fitting.

[Jaime]

And she says it looks better on me, so.

[Larry O'Connor]

Muscles rippling.

[Mark]

You look. You look. You look more muscular and handsome than a Kirsten cinema bodyguard.

[Larry O'Connor]

The only reason you're saying that is that you're only seeing me from here.

[Jaime]

Up and you're not able to observe the. The spare tire that I.

[Mark]

Yes, sir, I hear you.

[Jaime]

Camera. Welcome.

[Larry O'Connor]

Yeah, right.

[Mark]

Thank you for being here. Tell everybody what's on your mind, please.

[Larry O'Connor]

Here's what's on my mind.

[Mark]

And this is kind of a.

[Larry O'Connor]

Of a real difficult moment for me. I want to ask if the New York Times piece on the shooting made.

[Mark]

Any estimate whatsoever about how far the car. How far the car moved while the.

[Larry O'Connor]

Shots were going on.

[Mark]

Because I've never, I've never seen anybody.

[Larry O'Connor]

Answer the question, you know, because if.

[Jaime]

A car is moving at five miles an hour, it'll take you about 30.

[Mark]

Seconds to figure out that that's seven.

[Jaime]

Feet, four inches per second.

[Larry O'Connor]

So it seems entirely reasonable to me that when the agent shot, he fired three shots along exactly the same line.

[Mark]

And rather than saying he shot into.

[Jaime]

The window, it's more accurate to say.

[Mark]

She drove into the path of a bullet. I've not seen that framing. And I understand what you're saying. And I think the bigger point is the one Larry made earlier, which is this guy was not the beneficiary of slow mo and multiple angles. He was in the moment. And when people criticize him for being in front of the car, one of the things that I think the Times video makes clear. And again, my kudos to them. I didn't love the narrator and I didn't love their editorializing, but the. But the production is very good. One of the things to make clear is to me, he didn't get in front of the car in violation of what you're supposed to do. He didn't know she was going to drive. The car had been sitting there for a while. He just. That's where he happened to be walking to do the things he wanted to do. So I don't think you can criticize him for get, quote, unquote, getting in front of the car. Larry, I agree with you.

[Larry O'Connor]

And my understanding and talking to law enforcement professionals is that that is actually proper procedure. When one of your colleagues is going to the driver's side door, if you're there, you stand in front of the car because you don't think the person's going to start plowing into you.

[Mark]

Yeah. And Jaime, you can maybe address Wickham's question about have you seen anybody address the question of how far the car went?

[Jaime]

No, I don't think I've seen that. And I think here's one of the reasons why I've been a proponent of there being a real investigation. We're all. None of us are investigators, and we're talking about it ad nauseam. Here's what happened. A real person died, and a law. Law enforcement official is being held accountable for that in public opinion. And so those are two big issues that can portray something really big and really scary for this country. And I think we've got to tamp back on that. There's no world where we want to have local law enforcement against federal law enforcement or the people in these cities against. They're in law enforcement. So I think we need to just start. Stop parsing this and stop having this nuance of a conversation. She probably shouldn't have gotten killed. And one, and two, the law enforcement officer probably shouldn't have been put in that position. And those two things are going to hold true, I think.

[Mark]

Yeah. Wickham, thank you. Really good question. And I love the way you framed it. And thank you for buying the fairway and green stuff. All right, Cal, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind. For Hyman, for Larry.

[Jaime]

I'm in South Carolina and I'm.

[Larry O'Connor]

It was interesting.

[Jaime]

What's on my mind is I actually watched the whole Ben Shapiro Gavin Newsom podcast, and I'm a hard Republican for those who don't know. And, you know, the first thing as I watched it, I was. Was like, man, this guy's formidable, right? I mean, he's. He was smooth. It was silky. You know, the presentation was good. But then.

[Mark]

You're talking about Ben or Gavin.

[Jaime]

Ben's never smooth and silky. No, I'm like, but, but Gavin was very, very. I'm like. And then as I, as it got, as it got into it, the, the rail started coming off when, when Ben obviously asked about the, the trans issues. And then actually I thought Newsom's foreign policy answers were very weak. Right. And that, which, which, that's not being talked about, which I thought. But. And then, and then as, as I think Jaime said earlier, it was like I kind of started feeling like he was, he was acting after a while like he was playing Gavin Newsom. Right. Like playing President Gavin Newsom. Like, you know, I guess he's in California, so it makes sense to act when you're doing something. But. And I wonder, what do you think would be his most advantageous state to start in, in the primaries? Is it here in South Carolina? Because I think he might go over well here. Right.

[Mark]

But yeah, he had a very good, he had a very good visit there earlier. Hi, Mom. I know of the passable early states. Leave aside the state where Las Vegas is, which again, I cannot pronounce any more accurately than I pronounce Yemen. But leaving that state aside because proximity. What are, what are early possible early states you think would be good for him?

[Jaime]

Yeah. Well, because I live in reality, I think New Hampshire is very likely to become the first in the nation state again.

[Mark]

Wow.

[Jaime]

And he's, he has spent some time there. I've gotten mixed reviews from how well he's done in New Hampshire. And so he's trying to figure that out. But I think for him, you, I think you're right, Cal. I, I think a South Carolina could be interesting for him. He's had a lot of, you know, he spent a lot of time there, both on the record and off the record. But here's the problem. If you have a Westmore or a Kamala Harris or some formidable black candidate, they're going to do better in the South Carolina primary than Gavin Newsom. And that's going to give him a little bit, a little bit of an issue. And so then think about the primary.

[Mark]

You have.

[Jaime]

So New Hampshire, then you go to, you know, maybe South Carolina, Michigan, Nevada.

[Larry O'Connor]

It.

[Jaime]

Those first four states become a little bit more difficult for him depending on who is in the, in the actual race.

[Mark]

Let me say one, I agree with everything he said with this caveat after watching Pete Wilson run for president. If you leave Sacramento at 8am on a private plane or commercial flight, what time's the first event you can start in New Hampshire, South Carolina, I'm do the math.

[Jaime]

Wheels up at 8am I would say 2pm no, think about it.

[Mark]

8Am 8am 8am's 11. There's no non stop, there's no non stop commercial. So you'd have to transfer hours. Yeah, well not four and a half. It's a five hour flight. And, and, and that's a five hour. If it's a direct non stop on a big plane, if you're flying on a small private plane, it's going to be six hours. And if you're, and if you're flying on, if you're doing a connecting flight, it's six and a half or seven hours. So it's 11 o'. Clock. So what time is it? If it wheels up at 11 Eastern, what time is it when you're doing your first event in South Carolina?

[Jaime]

Was that 8?

[Mark]

Dinner time.

[Jaime]

P.m. yeah, dinner time.

[Mark]

Dinner time. So, so okay, so now you gotta leave. Now you gotta leave the night before. Right. So I'm just telling you this is a, this is a space time in motion issue that Pete Wilson team never figured out because he wanted to be a great New Hampshire candidate too. Very difficult.

[Jaime]

Cal, where are you from? South Carolina. Sumter. I'm in the middle. I've been to Sumter. The land of Jim Clyburn.

[Larry O'Connor]

Right?

[Mark]

Yes sir.

[Jaime]

Oh, I know.

[Mark]

Yeah. Cal, thank you. Go ahead, Larry, real quick.

[Larry O'Connor]

When Wilson ran in 96, was that the final year of his term? I can't remember now.

[Mark]

I think he was, I think it was, I think he had. I think he was.

[Jaime]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Yeah. But, but I'm just telling, but I'm just telling.

[Larry O'Connor]

Difference. What I'm saying is Newsom's gonna, he's going to set up camp. He's not going to be going back and forth.

[Mark]

He could, he could. Except his kids are in school and, and, and what's he going to do? Buy a place in Chicago and move his kids? Like I'm just telling you, unless he, he, I agree that he can spend a lot of time on the road and so you don't always start from Sacramento. But if you want to be with your kids, and trust me, he wants to be with his kids some days you got to start in Sacramento. Where's the, hey, where's the campaign going to be headquartered? So not going to be headquartered in California, probably. Yeah. So if it's headquartered in California, he's going to want to be with his team some of the time.

[Larry O'Connor]

But what, what was it, Ed, that we just had? I'm sorry, Cal. The one thing that he honed in on and this is going to be tough for Gavin Newsom to shake is the word phony that when as soon as a candidate is identified with a.

[Mark]

Word that hurts 100, 100%. I got to get a quick add in and then we're going to get to Steve in just a second for a quick final exchange of the week. If you need health life insurance is an opportunity to get life insurance through. Ethos.com Go to ethos.com, get a free quote. It's an online platform that makes it easy to get life insurance fast. Protect your family's future in minutes, not in days or hours or months. Ethos helps provide financial security whether your family, if you, if you passed away, need tuition payments or rent payments or mortgage payments. All of the things in life that you now take for granted that your income provides could go away in a moment and leave your family without a breadwinner. So right now, again, go to ethos.com, don't put it off. It's the kind of thing people like to put off for obvious reasons. Don't put it off. Go to ethos.com, get a free quote right now. No complicated process, 100% online, including no medical exam. You just take answer some health questions as part of the online questionnaire. You can protect your family with up to $3 million in coverage. Right now go to ethos.com/ your application times and the rates may vary. Ethos.com/ all right, Steve, welcome in. Thanks for being part of two way unmute. Tell folks who don't know where you are. And a quick question for Larry and I'm going to close this out. Hey, thanks Mark. Great panel.

[Jaime]

Steve. Hailing from Kalamazoo but have been living in Norfolk, Virginia for basically the second longest wonderful place.

[Mark]

You got a lot, you got a lot of Walmarts there. Oh yeah.

[Jaime]

I tell you, we're in north no shortage. Hey, but really you need to start.

[Mark]

Looking at some long term contracts for Larry and Jaime.

[Jaime]

Great panel. Appreciate their insights on both sides.

[Mark]

Larry gets extra credit because of his.

[Jaime]

Daughter going to Naval Academy class of 93. We support that long 2023 chain there.

[Mark]

But Jaime's point on Minneapolis being the loser.

[Jaime]

I agree. One of the things had a discussion.

[Mark]

With my 21 year old son and.

[Jaime]

Was saying hey, you know, there's folks out there paid protesting.

[Mark]

Things are going on across the country.

[Jaime]

But really you're seeing it heighten the tensions in Minneapolis. And he's like what are you talking about? There's nothing out there that says there is such a thing almost to the, you know, there is no such thing as antifa type points. Interested in your thoughts? Because I'm not super smart, but I'm able to find at least some points of contact that say there are some paid protesters. I mean people are making careers out.

[Mark]

Of showing up at these events. Steve, I got to cut you off and let the guys respond just because we're short of time. Thank you for the very good question, Jaime and Lynn. Larry, as brief as you guys can be, please.

[Jaime]

Yeah, I mean, you're right, Steve. It happens on both sides. It's unfortunate. And as someone who worked in city government for a long time in New Orleans, which happens to be a very community oriented city, there are some people who really care and who really want to get their voices heard. But there are on both sides, there are people who are perpetuating this as a career and they go and they go from city to city, both Democrats and Republicans, and they go and they just protest. And it happens.

[Larry O'Connor]

Yeah, it's direct action from the community organizing world, the Saul Alinsky playbook. And I can't both sides this man. I mean the level of agile agitation, resistance and disruption from the left is 10 to 1 compared to anything. You see Republicans who show up every year for the Right to life march in D.C. and that's about it.

[Mark]

Steve, thank you. Very grateful to you. Very grateful to you all. It's been a very tough week for a lot of people. Things in the news that are very difficult and I couldn't be more honored to be part of a community that has conversations like no other about this stuff and we talk about smack in the chat. But the conversations here all week have been fantastic and very grateful to you all for that and grateful Larry and Jaime and others who have guest co hosted this week. And I know everybody's curious about where we're headed. Stay tuned. But we're going to have a lot of great conversations with people like these two gentlemen for quite some time. I'll be back at six o' clock tonight. Brian Wolf, former Democratic strategist of Nancy Pelosi and a very smart man. And Ed Rogers, who worked in the Reagan White House political office and is really one of the also one of the smartest people I know in politics. They will be my guests at six and we'll have a lot of news to cover that we know about. Yeah. Coming out of the White House and elsewhere. And we'll be back Monday morning. This show will be on Monday. So we'll see at 9am on Monday two way tonight will not be on because the holiday. But we'll see you tonight at 6, Monday at 9. And again, grateful to everybody for being part of this community. Gentlemen, thank you both. Have a great weekend.

[Larry O'Connor]

Thank you.

[Mark]

You soon take care.