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The Morning Meeting
Will Trump Take Greenland, Even if It Requires Military Force? U.S. Reportedly Seizes a Tanker Again
01:04:06
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- [00:01]
James Patterson
I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon. And this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacey Abrams. Yay. BJ Novak. Yay. Kathy Bates, Dolly Parton, Josh Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows, maybe he'll show up. Hungry dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless, obsessive, compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [00:52]
John
Foreign.
- [01:02]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Cable news we're curious to see what everybody leads with this morning. Not that word. Not that we're just lambs, not your lemmings. Not just we lead with what other people lead with. But I'm curious to see what cable news is going to lead with here at the top of the hour, 9 Eastern time. Good morning. This is the morning meeting. Matt Gorman. Hi ma'. Am. More with us here. Gentlemen. Happy New Year. Welcome. Thank you for being here. Happy New Year. Well, this program is based on the network news division's morning meetings and often if, if the network has its morning meeting at 9:00 Eastern, they'll have a lot of video monitors in the conference room where the main meeting takes place and everybody will be glancing up to see what cable's leading with. So Fox or cnn looks like it's leading with the Brown shooting, which interesting choice videos released yesterday from the alleged shooter and Fox is leading with the president Cabinet breece, Congress on Venezuela and I don't know what, what Morning Joe has on. It's a little confusing. I just saw Yoda. Anyway, take that down. We'll keep monitoring it. We've got lots of stories to cover with you. As always, we look forward to your participation if you're here on the two way platform, whether you've been here many times or your first time here and you want to be in on the conversation, please raise your hand. We'll get to you all in just a bit. If you're watching on x or on YouTube, we love your participation passively as you watch in the old fashioned one way. But what we don't like is when you put smack in the chat. And again, I have to spend my entire afternoon going through and marking everything, labeling everything that's smack. I have to rank one through 10. One is a minimum smack, 10 is maximum smackitude. And it's an extraordinary labor intensive process. The more smack in the chat the more my afternoon is wasted. So please, no smack in the chat. If for no other reason than to allow me to spend my afternoon reading Chaucer or doing something else. We're going to. We're going to start with the daybook. As always interesting at the White House two events of. Of a cryptic nature. First of all, the new media pool. Can you put that up? This is the White House pool. New media pool. John Fredericks Media network. Matt Gorman I know you know what that is. Please tell everyone about the John Fredericks Media Network.
- [03:10]
Matt Gorman
John Frederick's media network.
- [03:11]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
That.
- [03:12]
Matt Gorman
That beats me actually. I do not know what that is.
- [03:14]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
All right, we'll be googling and then Jaime, you know the secondary TV poll. Lindell TV that's Mike Lindell. Gobert can. Anyway, two interesting choices in the pool and as I said two interesting events. 2:30 the president is signing executive orders currently closed press the oval. We know that could open up at any time but maybe the more interesting event 11 o' clock this morning. Boy. This will be widely featured on two way tonight. Tonight press briefing by Caroline Levitt and it says other cabinet now is Caroline Levitt in the cabinet? Did I miss her elevation to cabinet status? She'd be the first White House press secretary with cabinet level status. I don't know. Anyway, it says other cabinet officials. We've been unable to determine who that is or what that's about and perhaps it'll be about Venezuela. But we shall see. That could be an interesting event. We'll cover. Don't know what the Vice President's doing. At some point today the Secretaries of State, Defense and others from the administration head up the Hill to brief again on the Venezuela operation. House and Senate Republic or House and House of Republicans and Democrats having their separate weekly meetings right now after which you'll see sequential press conferences from the leadership. House Republicans attend Democrats at 10:45. He hearing with three Republican Minnesota state legislators at 10:00 on the Minnesota federal funds fraud matter. Not sure what insight they'll provide. That's the House Oversight Committee. House is trying to deal with the probes and with health care lots going on on healthcare in the Hill. We'll talk about that on both House and Senate. And those who want a deal are more bullish this morning than they've been throughout the process really. 2 3rd to 20 interesting time for a press event, probably because the senatorial schedules. Tim Kaine, Rand Paul, Two longtime proponents of Congress pretending it's a co equal branch on war powers or maybe the supreme branch on war powers having a press conference without cameras, what we call a pen and pad briefing in the Internet age. I can't believe they're still doing pen and pad briefings, but they are to talk about the war powers resolution that they have. And two 2028 events today. Potential 2028 candidate Andy Beshear, who still has the day job as the Kentucky governor, delivers his State of the Commonwealth address to his legislature at two Eastern time. Full coverage of that on two way tonight to see if people can stay awake through anything. And then Rahm Emanuel is doing a town hall meeting in, in Mississippi on education and literacy this evening. I, um, let's just start with this a little bit off off the breaking news. But Jaime, town halls. I understand in the olden days why there were town halls. Should candidates still be doing town halls? Like, what do they get out of doing a town hall?
- [06:07]
Jaime
Yeah, for sure. I, I love town halls still. And it's a couple things. You know, you think about someone like Rahm Emanuel, who is a brilliant messenger and someone who's going to be on TV every day for the next six to 10 months, he's going to be able to go into these town halls and sort of garner at least some sentiment of the Democratic Party that he can pass along topics that are going to be talked about. You know, one thing we would do with Hillary Clinton In 2016, you give people the mic and let them ask their own questions and you go back to the table and you sort of rank what's been asked that day. And so it's really helpful, actually, and I'm looking forward to seeing a lot of those this year.
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Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Matt Gorman, would you have your candidates do town halls?
- [06:48]
Matt Gorman
Yeah, I mean, look, it's a press event. Let's just be honest here. Like in I, I would, I would, I would have the president, the citizens.
- [06:54]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
The citizens are props is what you're saying. Yeah.
- [06:56]
Matt Gorman
I mean, let's be honest here. No, no one, no one really in this information age, really going in curious and waiting for that town hall with Rahm Emanuel to see what he thinks about any other topic or anybody else. I. They're helpful on a presidential level because they get coverage. The only, the only way they go, the only way they're in any way notable on the statewide or congressional levels when they go haywire. So I don't think they're where they're worth on the congressional. They also like, they're, they're good just to build nimbleness. Everything is media prep. Everything is prep for debates, really. So this, you know, you'll see this. Your first town hall is so much worse than your 50th, which is so much worse than your 100th. So it just, it builds muscle memory because you never know what you're going to get in these things. It could be really good questions, could be cranks, and you got to be nimble enough to parry, answer good questions, and also just be personable with people.
- [07:45]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Right.
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Matt Gorman
Like that's where you can be authentic. So it's, it's helpful.
- [07:48]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yeah. All right, we'll talk.
- [07:49]
Jaime
And if you're, if you're a mayor, you're going to do those two or three times a month. So it's still useful for those local offices as well.
- [07:56]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yep. Okay, we'll talk more. Thank you for both, gentlemen. We'll talk about ramen later in the program, but first, quick word from a sponsor and then, and then we'll get into our first topic. Venezuela. The good folks at Lean, one of our sponsors, want to help you get the year off to a healthier start without fad diets. Juice cleanses, cabbage soup. They're always telling me the trash cabbage soup. I'm not sure why, but I'm willing to. I'm game for the good folks there. Average person, when they hit 60, they've lost and regained over the course of their lives, several hundred pounds up and down weight cycling. Half of America does it. Not healthy. Lose 10, gain 10, lose 10, gain 10. Bottom line, most people need help losing weight, and this is a way to do it. Lean helps you maintain healthy blood sugar, which is important. Helps you control appetite and craving. And it converts burns fat by converting it to energy. And that keeps weight off. So 20% off on all the products. If you want to try a new way to lose weight, go to takelean.com and enter the promo code 2wmm2wmm. Arguably the worst promo code in the history of promo codes, because I have trouble saying it. Two way. Mm. Morning meeting. Two way. Mm2wmm. Takelean.com promo code 2wmm for 20% off. Thank you for attention. To that matter.
- [09:09]
James Patterson
I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon. And this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacy Abrams.
- [09:34]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yay.
- [09:34]
James Patterson
BJ Novak. Yay. Kathy Bates, Dolly Parton, Josh Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows, Maybe he'll show up. Hungry dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless obsessive compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [10:06]
Jaime
All right.
- [10:07]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
On Venezuela this morning, the US Seized a ship that had kind of been playing cat and mouse with off the coast of Venezuela. This is in the wake of the president last night saying that the US Was going to take some oil from Venezuela and take some of the money and give some of the money to the Venezuelans. Here's the headline on the ship seizure. Reuters broke the story earlier today. Been matched by others now. US Seizing Venezuelan linked Russian flagged oil tanker after weeks long pursuit. I love the phrase cat mess because it makes me think of Tom and Jerry just like that. And it's not clear what the President means because the president, as far as I know, doesn't have refinery capacity. So what oil is being taken, where it's going to go, who's going to refine it, who's going to sell it, who's going to do the bookkeeping. All a big mystery. And the briefing on the Hill today already mentioned. So there'll be perhaps a little bit more information about the current operation. And still unclear about what's going on on the ground in, in Venezuela, how much unrest there is, but what seems clear. And Mark Caputo reported this this morning on Axios. We reported it here yesterday. Not that we were ahead of Mark. I'm sure we were exactly even talking to the same people. The whole point here now is to have st no call for immediate elections, get the oil process underway. It's been reported the President's gonna meet with oil executives, American oil executives, either tomorrow or Friday. Just keep the stability on the ground, figure out a government that's maybe less repressive, but they're not putting a big emphasis on democracy and elections right now. Column in the Wall Street Journal this morning from Holman Jenkins said the opposition leaders, Machado and others, they should be seizing the initiative. Not just going on Hannity, but basically flying back and saying we won the election, we're in charge and kind of forced the President's hand. I'm not sure that's the best advice I've ever heard. But in any event, Matt Gorman, what do you, what are you anticipating? We're always trying to be forward looking. What do you anticipate happening in the Venezuela story, both on the ground in Venezuela, but also here in the United States, say the rest of the week into next week?
- [12:14]
Matt Gorman
I think the Venezuela stuff is going to be focusing on the oil.
- [12:17]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Right.
- [12:17]
Matt Gorman
Like, I think they're going to figure out a way they have 50 million barrels right now. How can they extract more? How can they get infrastructure in place with these oil companies to have a process to get it through the United States? I think what I'm more interested in is what this means for the other countries. I think you put it exactly right. There's no emphasis on democracy. You're not going to see Venezuelans with the inked finger like you saw In Iraq about 20 years ago, voting in elections. What I took note of last weekend, you talked about the deals. It's all a big deal. So how do they get better deals in their mind? Cuba and Colombia even seizing the Russian ship? Does this affected all the Russian and Ukraine negotiations? That's what I'm seeing some dominoes at hand here and I would look for in the, you know, next 48 to 72 hours.
- [13:04]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yeah, Jaime, has, has the president opened a Pandora's box here or does you get the sense that Rubio, Miller and others have this in hand and in control?
- [13:14]
Jaime
No, I don't, I don't think anyone has an in hand or under control. And I think the President intended to open the Pandora's box. To be quite frank, I, what I'm looking forward to seeing. Look, I, you guys know I worked in New Orleans for a large part of my career and I have spent much time with the oil and gas community and I know that they're very hard to move. And These individuals plan 20, 50 years down the road. And so they're looking at the President's going to be a lame duck president if he's not already. And so they're going to, they're going to. It's going to be really tough for the President to get these oil and gas companies to move in a direction that he wants them to move in as quickly as he does. And that's going to be something that's going to be very telling in a year that the president spent 12 months, you know, bringing the business community as close as possible and started leveraging them as much as he can. But this is going to be a big test for him right now with these Oil and gas companies in Venezuela, and to Matt's point, and these other countries as well. And so I'm looking forward to seeing what they say and how they actually respond to this. And they either placate the President or they are serious about restituting operations down there.
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Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
100%. Correct. And they've been in touch with the oil companies forever, not just on Venezuela, but on everything. And as Jaime said, these companies don't want to. They don't want to spend millions or billions trying to build infrastructure, security for their employees and their contractors without some understanding of how this is going to work. And of course, right now the price of oil is relatively low, and so their risk averse is higher to go get a bunch of oil that they can't sell at more than $60 a barrel. It's not part of their economic model. So how is the President in this meeting going to try to incentivize them to do what he wants done? I mean, in a perfect world, from the President's point of view, all the American energy companies would be big on the ground, not just Chevron, but they'd be building infrastructure. We'd be helping the Venezuelan people make money, but we'd also be bringing a lot of money back to the U.S. matt Gorman.
- [15:11]
Matt Gorman
No, look, I think this is something that, I mean, this was bubbling up as an issue with oil companies for months, and I think the outreach with the administration has been very strong on this. So while you're right, nobody, I don't think, expected them to go and pull Noriega on Maduro. They were planning for how can they break this log jam in Venezuela. And so I think they have been planning some sort of this for, you know, six to eight months at least.
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Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Y. Yep. Okay, let's talk about Greenland. Incredible story. And I want to start with this question, gentlemen. If you were building an AI Danish member of the European Parliament, would you give him a beard? If it's a man, would you give him a beard? It just like with AI Say, draw me a. Draw me a. Would you give him a beard?
- [16:00]
Matt Gorman
One only blonde.
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Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yeah, you give him a beard. And, and if you. And if you said he's going to appear on cable news in the United States, would you put them in a turtleneck and a blazer? Is that how you address them?
- [16:10]
Matt Gorman
I think you and I were looking at the same person.
- [16:12]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
All right, so, ladies and gentlemen, the Europeans are up in arms again. That's incredible irony at a moment when Kushner and Witkoff are in Paris meeting with NATO leaders and finding common cause on building a security structure for one of the two big pieces pending in the Ukraine matter along with territorial questions. What kind of security guarantees will the Ukrainians get Great progress there. And at the same time the president states in the White House last night putting out this provocative statement saying the president might use military force to take to take Greenland. In the midst of all this CNN Books Mr. Anders Vist Vitis Anders Vista here he is on CNN this morning saying he will not be bullied along with his European patriots. Downplaying to lawmakers that the threat of military action saying that the White House.
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Jaime
The administration is considering buying. Buying Greenland.
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Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Does that feel reassuring to you at all? No.
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Danish Official (unnamed)
I think it's a signal that the Danish government have not communicated amply clearly to the US Administration that the time where powers can buy and sell former colonies self governing territories is long gone. It is not something that is feasible. It's not something that can be done and it's not something that is realistic in any way or form. And to be frank, I think we in Denmark are quite fed up with this attitude from the U.S. administration. And the clear message is that it's not for sale. It's not something you can negotiate about and you're not going to be able to pressure.
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Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Freeze him when he ends. Freeze him when he ends. You will not be bullied into submission. Matt, is that beard light enough for you or is a little darker than you would do?
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Matt Gorman
Got to go darker. Got to go darker. And that's not a flat too. He needs to go a little higher on that.
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Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Anders, Anders. Anders. Anyway, take Anders down as, as he as was alluded to there, Secretary Rubio says we're not going to invade a NATO allies territory. We're just going to use that as leverage. Leverage, his favorite word now to, to force a sale. We want the, we want to get the Russians and the Chinese out of Greenland. We want to get their rare earth minerals although they have less than we do according to a chart I saw this morning. And we want to, we want our sphere of influence. It's in our hemisphere. Jaime, where is this going? Here's a BBC headline us discussing options to acquire Greenland, including use of military. That was an incredibly provocative statement the White House put out last night from Caroline Levitt. But they're not going to use military force. How, where are we headed on Greenland?
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Jaime
Look, I don't put anything past President Trump at this point and what I've been telling Democrats for the last few years, if the president says something We've got to believe him to a certain extent. And so I think he's going to do everything he can to, to acquire or to ruffle feathers in Europe and bring Greenland as possible. You know, I think what, what's been the issue with President Trump over the last 12 is, you know, under the umbrella of America First. Some of these things may sound, you know, pretty fine or even good, but there doesn't seem to be a grand plan to bring all of this together. It doesn't seem like he has a vision or Stephen Miller, President Miller or Council Miller, whatever.
- [19:35]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Prime Minister, Prime Minister. Prime Minister or Prime Minister.
- [19:38]
Jaime
Prime Prime Minister or Chancellor. Yeah, didn't seem like they have. They have. They have a vision for this and a big plan. So what we're doing is we're alienating these European allies at a time that is not advantageous for us. And we have Russia and China, those two adversaries are growing stronger every day, particularly China. And so I think the President's got to be a little bit more forward thinking, Stephen Miller, and think past just this term, past just this year, and then maybe we can have that conversation. But I think as it stands, they're going to do everything they can to acquire Greenland. And we ought to be, we ought to take it seriously.
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Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Matt Gorman, that Thune, Speaker Johnson, Rich Lowry, many, many people in the President's orbit, pundits and members of Congress are like, no, no, no, we're not going to invade. I mean, the Danes and the Europeans can have their hair on fire and their panties in a wad over this, but this is just leverage. And shouldn't they just be negotiating for the best deal they can get?
- [20:35]
Matt Gorman
They're doing us such a favor by freaking out over this and thinking whether it's Democrats, whether it's Europeans, thinking we're all going to roll in, like patent into Greenland. I don't have kids, but I've been around them enough that the parents out there, like, you ever have kids. And the hardest part is, like, I'm making this up. If you count, like, don't make me count to three, because on three, there's gonna be real consequences here. And the hardest thing is, if I've seen this, if the kids don't take you seriously, they know you're full of it and they know you're gonna get the three. Nothing's gonna really happen. So you were like, by the Democrats and Europeans freaking out about thinking we're gonna actually military invade Greenland. And it just helps our positioning so much because it convinces people that we're actually going to do it. And so, like, the worst thing in the world would be if we posture and say, hey, look, we essentially want to cut a deal for Greenland. Let's be honest. We want to cut a deal with Greenland sharing rare earths. Like, we've tried to do this in Ukraine. Like, we want. We want to pull certain levers to make sure the Russians and Chinese are out and we can get it. But the fact that they're helping our leverage in this.
- [21:35]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Thank you. Three things in response to that. Number one, all over Washington now, there's a text chain of Matt Gorman's male and female friends saying, can you believe Matt Gorman's telling a story about how to behave with children? Like, nobody can believe it. Number two, I couldn't agree with you more. They should be laughing at this. They should be saying, a NATO country is not going to invade a NATO country and laughing it off. But number three, I'll say the President. If people don't think the President's serious about controlling the entire hemisphere, they're not paying attention. He's determined to do it. And the Danes can say all they want that they don't want this to happen. But I go back to what we talked about on round one of this, is if the people of Greenland don't want to be aligned with the US it can't happen. And so that trip that Don Jr took, like, they need more of that. It seems to me they need more of winning the hearts and minds of the Greenlanders.
- [22:28]
Jaime
Yeah. Even if what you and Matt are saying is true, I mean, at the end of the day, this is dangerous rhetoric and dangerous leverage to have. I mean, this is no way for a president of the United States of America, someone who wants to be the world superpower superstar, to act. And so even if he is lying through his teeth and using leverage, it's just a stupid thing to say and a stupid thing to do. And I don't think the President or Stephen Miller should continue to perpetuate that.
- [22:57]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Okay, so we always want to differentiate him, I take your point. Between what is and what ought to be. And I know you're saying this isn't the way it should be, but what is is, and we saw this over the weekend, the President just wants gangsta foreign policy. He just wants to threaten people. He wants to say what's mine is mine and what yours will negotiate over. And so we can decry it, but that's the foreign policy now of this. Of this administration. And if. If he makes Idle threats or, or serious threats. It's, it's up to the people who are being threatened to decide. Again, I'm not endorsing gangster foreign policy. I'm just saying that's what this. That's what, that's what we have now. And nobody can stop, Nobody can stop him. There's no one in the administration who wants to stop him. The Hill can't stop him, but he's not. I love the Politico story That said the US military could take the capital of Greenland in 30 minutes with a couple helicopters they're doing our bidding in.
- [23:54]
Matt Gorman
And also, like, specifically, and with respect, I'm like, specifically right now. What is dangerous right now about what is happening right now?
- [24:03]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Thank you. That's the question. I'm a. What is, what is dangerous about? He's just, he's just.
- [24:07]
Jaime
The fact that we're having this conversation about a NATO ally is dangerous. The fact that the President just went down Venezuela and, and granted, I'm no Maduro fan. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say he should have left in the Venezuela, but the fact that he went down and kidnapped the president and his wife, I mean, these are dangerous tactics.
- [24:26]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
I'm sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt, but Matt and I want to know what's dangerous. What's in danger?
- [24:31]
Jaime
Well, if the danger part is if you're having this conversation about a NATO ally and when we're going to Europe and trying to have conversations about saving Ukraine and ending a war in Russia and preparing for what's going to be a really tough five, ten years with China. That's why it's dangerous. This is a conversation that is leaving America in a place of vulnerability when we're talking about our other allies. So. And it's an unnecessary conversation. You know, we can go into Greenland and have a, and have an adult conversation about minerals, about partnership, about leveraging what we've already established together, but there's no need for a deranged Donald Trump and a deranged Stephen Miller to go on TV every day and threaten to take Greenland. I mean, there's no, there's no benefit.
- [25:13]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
But if we, if we have a simple conversation, we go to the Danes and say, hey, we'd like a piece of that. They'll say no.
- [25:18]
Matt Gorman
Yeah, I mean.
- [25:22]
Jaime
That'S part of diplomacy. I mean, that's, this has been something that we've dealt with for, for the. Since time has, you know, existed. And so just because the Danes are saying no doesn't mean that, that's not worth having a full conversation. I mean look what's going on in Ukraine. Russia is taking more of Ukraine every single day. That should be the priority of the conversation. Not taking Greenland for a couple, a couple minerals. I mean that's just. We're wasting time by having that conversation and that's dangerous.
- [25:48]
Matt Gorman
I guess, I guess my. To put a button on it. So you, so you think. And I'm trying to. I'm not sure I put Ridge your mess so help me out here. So you think though that by kind of talking tough on Greenland the Europeans are going to turn away from us when it comes to Ukraine and Russia.
- [26:03]
Jaime
We're not talking tough on Greenland. We're threatening to take Greenland away. That's so. So Matt. So don't. We're talking, we're talking, I mean we're not talking tough. We're talking about taking, we're talking taking a sovereign country and so like and, and the fact that we're talking about this morning we're talking about tariffs and costs. I'm so annoyed by that just personally and so quite frankly it's an unhelpful conversation on all fronts.
- [26:25]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
You speak for tens of millions and Matt does or Matt speaks for at least me because, because I disagree with Matt and again I don't read the chat. I glance at it. I'm not endorsing the President's tactics or strategy here. I'm just describing what's happening and I'm saying just what I believe is true that the administration believes is true. If they just simply tried to engage in diplomacy the Danes would say pound sand. We're not, we're not giving you Greenland. You have no basis to, to take it. And the President's view is not just for the rare earth minerals and not to be belligerent but to get Russia and China out of this hemisphere to, to make sure that the United States is not for the next 50 years having to devote blood and treasure to fighting incursions from China and Russia, particularly China in our hemisphere. Now's the time to make a change again. That's what they're doing. I'm not endorsing it. I'm just describing what they're doing.
- [27:17]
Jaime
Yeah, I wish. I think that's fine. Well and good. If the President was serious about taking on Russia and China he would have a multi pronged strategy that does not only include taking over Greenland. I am all for, I say this all the time. I'm on the show. You guys know. I am all for preparing for what's going on in China. And I am all for getting Russia, you know, getting them, pushing them back across the line. If that's a part of the strategy, a multi pronged strategy, I think that's fine. But it's not and it's haphazard. It's completely in some ways deranged as a conversation. And so if they have a strategy for Russia and for China, then, look, let's have a conversation about it. Most Americans would be pro that, but that's not the case.
- [28:00]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
But I say respectfully, it is the case. That's what Maduro is about. That's what Greenland is about. That's what Ukraine is about. They're trying to find a way to get leverage over China and Russia. And this is a piece of it. Not just the rare earths, but the, but the territorial safety of getting them out of the hemisphere where they're, where they're, they're, they're doing all sorts of stuff. All right, again, we can talk about this forever. Great conversation. Let's try to do these next few real quick. House majority. I said this half jokingly to someone this morning. They should, the House Republicans should appropriate money to put a physician with every, with every House Republican. They can't afford anybody else getting sick or having an accident or whatever because there's a danger that they'll lose the majority. And certainly now every vote is harder. Although when you get down to smaller majorities, we've talked about the irony of that and the paradox of that. The smaller the majority that in some ways the easier it is to win a vote because there's no such thing as a coalition to try to bargain from where everybody has to vote. Yes. So how big a crisis is this for the House Republicans now? Zero is no crisis. Ten is existential crisis. How big a crisis is the margin right now for votes? Matt Gorman, 0 to 10 Guy number.
- [29:13]
Matt Gorman
Wise, I don't know, but it's a pretty big crisis. Like it.
- [29:15]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
All right, I'm going to say it's a seven. We got to move on. I'm a number seven or higher.
- [29:21]
Jaime
Yeah. Six or seven. Yeah.
- [29:22]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Okay. Health care, is there going to be a health. What if there, if there's, let me ask it this way. If there is a health care deal on extending the subsidies and the Senate's got a pret. Now they haven't revealed their finesse on the abortion issue, but they claim to have one. If there's going to be a deal, is it Senate passage that jams the House and the speaker can get enough Republican votes to put it on the floor. Is that the path, if there is one?
- [29:48]
Jaime
I think it has to be at this point. I think that's the only way.
- [29:50]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yeah. Matt, do you agree with that?
- [29:53]
Matt Gorman
I think it's going to be a flip. I was talking to somebody in the Senate last night. What they said is watch for the Senate's going to be able to pass more conservative stuff with a bigger margin. The House isn't going to be able to. The House is going to moderate because of the margin more than anything else.
- [30:05]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yeah. Yep. So remember, tomorrow probably there'll be a vote based on the discharge petition on the clean extension, a relatively clean extension of the subsidies. There's been different predictions at the time the discharge petition went through about how many House Republicans will vote for that. If it's north of 30, which it still could be that that provides more momentum for, for whatever develops here in the Senate or House. Compromise. Iran continue. The government there continues to struggle with suppressing dissent and is much more sensitive to not shooting people in the streets than they've been during the past two rounds of this. They really seem concerned. Here's the headline from, from the ap Iran Army Chief threatens preemptive attack over rhetoric targeting country after Trump's comments. They're very concerned about interest in what happened in Venezuela. There's reporting that the Iranian leadership is worried that the president's. The United States is going to come in and snatch. Folks. So my question is on Iran is what's your Spidey sense? Because nobody knows. We could have, we could have David Ignatius and, and Henry Kissinger and they wouldn't know. Is this, is this, is this going to be the time the Iranian regime topples or will they suppress it? Jaime?
- [31:27]
Jaime
I don't, I don't know. It's hard to say. I'm bullish on, on, on, on this being close to the end for, for the president over there and, and moving forward. But I don't know. You know, things are, have gotten weird all over the, all over the world recently. But I'm bullish on this being close to the end.
- [31:45]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Amazing. By the way, before Matt answers on his Spidey sense on this, that's what I think and that's what a lot of experts I've talked to in the last two days say. They really do think this feels different in part because the reaction of the government met.
- [31:59]
Matt Gorman
I think also the fact that the relationship with Israel. I could see something happening where they get Trump gets a message whether it's to Iran or one of its proxies in the region and says, look, get the F out right now or I can't control what the hell Bibi does. Like, I'm just saying, like, I could see something like that where they play a little good cop, bad cop.
- [32:21]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Okay, quickly, again, on Ukraine, I mentioned earlier very positive vibes coming out of the talks, but, but a lot of, about the security agreements with the United States and Europe, but very pessimistic. A lot of people still very pessimistic about Putin and whether he'll accept anything. So, Matt, same thing. Just on your spidey sense. Are we headed towards a European US Deal with Ukraine that then Putin rejects? Is that where we're headed?
- [32:45]
Matt Gorman
I don't, I don't foresee any movement on that yet. I, I don't, I think, I, I, I think the, the Russia thing that, with the, the boat is a step in that direction, but I don't think we're ever close.
- [32:55]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yeah. Hi. Hi.
- [32:56]
Jaime
I fully agree, Matt.
- [32:58]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Okay. All right, Epstein, here is Mr. Massey last night explaining his outrage not just about the slow pace of, of the disclosure of documents in violation of, of a law signed into law by the President, passed by Congress, but also the nature of the redactions in the documents that have already been released. Cue Mr. Massey, please, for the fact that these Epstein files, still millions of.
- [33:27]
Matt Gorman
More documents that they're still reviewing at this point.
- [33:30]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
You know, if this were a private.
- [33:32]
Mr. Massey
Law firm with 5% of the resources of the DOJ, this would have been.
- [33:36]
Jaime
Done by the deadline.
- [33:37]
Mr. Massey
And they just missed another deadline, which is the report to Congress, which is supposed to list all the politicians that are in their files. And also they're supposed to justify all the redactions 15 days after the first 30 day window. But the biggest problem isn't that they're missing the deadlines is what they're redacting. So they're citing the Privacy act and they're trying to pretend like that overrides a law that we just passed that says you can't withhold records to prevent embarrassment. They're also citing FOIA standards which don't apply to our law, when they're trying to say that they don't have to release internal decisions. But our bill specifically says release internal decisions.
- [34:20]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
So what are you going to do about it?
- [34:22]
Jaime
We're looking at that.
- [34:24]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Matt, what happens on this next.
- [34:29]
Matt Gorman
Way. That was the most Washington lawyerly legalistic answer. We're talking about FOIAs, we're talking about deadline. We'll see about it look, whether you, regardless you think about the Epstein stuff, answers like that question, line of questioning like that is not going to put this back in the front page if folks who are opponents of President Trump or whatever want to get back on the front page.
- [34:51]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
So what do you think? What happens next?
- [34:54]
Matt Gorman
If that's, if that's where they are right now, talking about deadlines and 5%.
- [34:59]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Okay. Hi, Ma. What happens next?
- [35:01]
Jaime
I think, I think we're still going to keep talking about it. I'm not sure, Matt and maybe other Republicans, why won't they just take this off the table? This is, this, this, this Epstein conversation is going to continue to grow legs and continue to be a talking point for the next couple months. And I think what's going to happen next is as we get into these, these Republican primaries, a lot of these candidates are going to have to start making a choice on where they stand on this. And this is going to be something that's going to be talked about in the states and the districts. I don't know if it's going to be a national conversation every day, but it's going to continue to be a conversation that's going to be happening in Pennsylvania and Georgia and Michigan. And I don't know why Republicans won't just dead. This.
- [35:38]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
We still don't really know. All right, three more topics into your questions. Again, if you want in the conversation, please raise your hand. We ended the year with Gavin Newsom having dominated the 2028 sweepstakes. In 2025, the clear front runner leaning more into the possibility of running than he had before. Winning the ballot measure, dominating the news cycle, challenging the president, you know, just, just by almost every metric and, and moving up in the polls as well. Two developments with Gavin Newsom. The last 24 hours gives us an opportunity to revisit the question with our co hosts here about whether he is still the clear frontrunner. One is a profile in the Atlantic by a British reporter, Helen Lewis. I recommend you read it. If you're familiar with Gavin Newsom's bio, you won't learn much, but he, he, he engaged. She reveals a lot of the little tricks he uses to seduce reporters. And I say seduce, I say seduce in a professional and clinical way. He, he, he, he does a bunch of stuff like he texts her back right away. He, he, he, he gabs with her. He, he opens the kimono a little bit. There's lots in there. If you want to understand the inside of how Gavin Newsom tries to get reporters on his side, she Does a good job on that. I, I will say her knowledge of American history and politics is not at the top shelf of, of someone who I would assign to write a profile, Gavin Newsom. But she got incredible access. I recommend it to you. Then yesterday, this a little complicated of a story. I'll explain it somewhat elliptically. Benny Johnson said the, the, the, what will I call Benny? A conservative provocateur and content creator, said he was going to go to California and look for welfare fraud in California and, and nonprofit fraud in California. And Gavin Newsom's highly Trump Trump style Twitter feed X Feed, send something back which seemed to be a reference to accusations made previously about Mr. Johnson's personal life. That's all I'll say. You can look it up yourself. But again, they continue to use that feed in a very provocative manner. Hyma Moore, where do we stand now with Gavin Newsom, 28? Is he the champion front runner, currently far and away the front runner, or has the, as the, as the star dimmed? Where do we, where do you put him now?
- [38:00]
Jaime
Yeah, look, I, if I say this first thing, if, if I ever get a profile written, I will love for Helen to write one for me.
- [38:06]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
It was, do you know, do you know her?
- [38:08]
Jaime
No, I don't. But it was glowing.
- [38:09]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
It was glowing.
- [38:10]
Jaime
It was glowing.
- [38:11]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
You, you, as we say in the spirit of the season, you would even say it glows.
- [38:15]
Jaime
It glows. Yeah, exactly. Look, I, the, this, I think we're moving to phase two of the, of the mini Democratic primary and Gavin Newsom clearly won the first phase. Now what's going to happen over the next few months and few weeks is people. I mean, he is the front runner. And so everyone's going to pile on both conservatives. And now you're going to start seeing some Democrats start to point out things about Gavin Newsom that they don't like.
- [38:40]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yeah.
- [38:41]
Jaime
Or that they want to have a second look at. So I think what's going to happen the Kamala Harris is still a big deal. And, and I only bring her up in this conversation one because of California too. I do think that she's moving closer to make a decision on, on running, which means that she and Gavin Newsom are going to have to have some sort of West Coast California mini primary within themselves. And that's going to be a really big testing point for Gavin Newsom. How does he emerge as the, the, the victor over Kamala Harris? He's going to need black women to become the nominee. She's a black woman. She did a great job with black women in this past election, but he's going to need that demographic. And so how, how hard is he going to go after her? How is he going to differentiate himself from her? How is he going to emerge as someone who's going to be a better option for Democrats? And so this thing is not over yet. I think he won phase one, phase two. He is winning right now, but the slope is a little bit slipperier than, than it was last time. Now, granted, he's no Tim Walls and he's not going to be taken advantage of as Tim Walls as we just saw happen. And he's not going to be mirrored in those types of scandals, I don't believe. And he's a much better political athlete than Tim Walls and then most governors. So I think that's going to be, that's the second thing. Third thing, my last point is if Amy Klobuchar does run for, for governor in Minnesota and she becomes the governor, she gets back into that conversation a little bit more for 2028 than she is right now. And she's going to be a part of the dga. She's going to be a thorn in the side of a lot of governors. She's very smart, she's very astute and she's going to want to appeal to an electorate that Gavin Newsom also wants to appeal to. And so this is far from over for Gavin Newsom.
- [40:19]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Brilliant. Everything you all, if you didn't pay close, close attention to that, go back and listen to it once it's on YouTube because that was super brilliant. Best analysis I've heard of, where we stand overall and with Newsom. So thank you for that. All I'll say is, you know, you, we should be more explicit. Gavin Newsom is not the nominee de facto, but he did win the Helen Lewis primary without it, without a doubt. Matt Gorman, Right now in my life, I've got Republicans who say Newsom can't win the nomination. If he somehow did, he can't possibly win a general. And I've got Republicans saying Newsom's made it clear now he's the most formidable general election candidate the Democrats have. Which is correct.
- [40:56]
Matt Gorman
Neither right now. Look, I don't, first of all, in my opinion, I think the Clover thing is a VP play. But we can set that aside for a second. I think if the only thing stand between Gavin the nomination is Kamala Harris, then it's an easier road for Gavin than we actually think. But then I will say this, that screenshot you Guys just put up earlier with the said the front runner. Oh, my God. That's either going to be the most pressured thing ever or it's going to be laughed at. I Remember back in 2015, Dave Catney, so I think it's at the Daily Mail right now, wrote this piece about the coming clash between Jeb Bush and Scott Walker. And people post it as a kind of a joke and a meme team now. So and look, the Helen Lewis thing is smart because if you Brandon, make it stop. The top of my head, if you bring a Molly Ball out there, I think she's with the Wall Street Journal or other folks who have a really deep knowledge of American politics, really smart and sharp, then they're going to ask a lot tougher questions. And no disrespect.
- [41:46]
Jaime
Yeah.
- [41:47]
Matt Gorman
A British person who can be, quote, unquote, seduced by all of that.
- [41:51]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yeah. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 100.
- [41:53]
Matt Gorman
That was a very smart move. But I will say this. If I, I would not want that headline out there if I'm Gavin Newsom's team right now. The front runner, that's only place you can go is one One Direction.
- [42:04]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Except history shows I say this all the time. The front runner almost always, with the exception of Hillary 90 2008, the front when there's been a front runner, they've been the nominee every time since Mondale. Every time.
- [42:14]
Matt Gorman
But at what point the front runner.
- [42:16]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
The, the first front runner, the first person named the front runner has been the nominee every time with when there's been one with the Democratic side. On the Democratic side.
- [42:25]
Matt Gorman
What I would, I would, what I would posit is, and again, this is a longer treaties. I think we are in a post 202012 world where we were with the GOP, where I think that was true to a point. I think what you're going to see is a fundamental reckoning from the last couple of primaries, from 16 with Hillary 2024.
- [42:44]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Maybe if there's a strong, strong progressive candidate, maybe. And they don't steal it the way they did from Bernie twice. Okay, here's what we're going to do. We were going to talk about Rahm Emanuel. We were going to talk about the Senate. We're going to do those tomorrow. We'll get video of Rahm from Mississippi. We'll do it tomorrow. And there's no reason we have to talk about the Senate today. I've got some reporting I wanted to share, but I'll do it tomorrow. A quick word from a sponsor then to your questions. Stand by Raise your hand if you want in on the conversation. The folks at Cozy Earth are back as a sponsor in 2026. We're glad to have them. 20% off everything on the site. Same promo code, 2wmm.cozyearth.com Holidays are over, but the deals are still here. 20 off everything on the site. 2wmm is your promo code for the bamboo sheets for the bubble cuddle blanket where you can lose yourself in luxury, ladies and gentlemen. And your pets will love it too, by the way. Not explicitly made for animals, but they do love the bubble cuddle blanket. The bamboo sheets are the softest sheets I've ever owned. And of course, the pants. And I continue to wear the pants everywhere. I'm going to wear them to dinner tonight at a restaurant where the entrees cost more than $42 a piece. And no one will look at me and say, why are you wearing pants that you previously wore to the beach? Because they are that versatile and that comfortable. Give the gift of luxury. Make every moment comfortable. Buy yourself a pair of pants, ladies and gentlemen. Don't be silly. Cozyearth.com promo code, 2wmm. When you get to the post purchase survey, tell them Matt Gorman sent you or the morning meeting, whichever you prefer. Again, give the gift of comfort that lasts beyond the holidays and carries into a cozy new year. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Here we go. Matt Casey. Welcome in. Tell people who don't know, oops, hit the wrong button. I'm in, moron. See if I can fix things. Here we go. Matt Casey. Here we go. Welcome in Unmute. Tell folks who don't know where you are and what's on your mind for Matt and. Hi, ma. Happy New Year and thank you for being part of two Way.
- [44:31]
Matt Casey
Hey, Happy New Year. Can you guys hear me?
- [44:33]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yes, sir. Great.
- [44:34]
James Patterson
Great.
- [44:35]
Matt Casey
Hey, I'm calling from the Netherlands. So I'm in the belly of the beast here in Europe right now.
- [44:39]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
How many, how many, how many mustard colored turtlenecks do you own?
- [44:44]
Jaime
Not enough.
- [44:45]
Matt Casey
Not enough over here, but we're working on it. I've lived here about half my life.
- [44:50]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
So where do you live when you live in America?
- [44:53]
Matt Casey
Well, I'm from Iowa originally.
- [44:55]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Iowa. We're in Iowa. Sioux City. Sioux City. Beautiful place. Great Mexican food, by the way.
- [45:01]
Matt Casey
The first one I've ever heard say that, but good.
- [45:03]
Jaime
Yeah.
- [45:03]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
All right, all right. Welcome, Matt. Thank you for being part of two Way. What's on your mind for. For Matt and for Jaime.
- [45:08]
Matt Casey
Yeah, yeah, I just wanted to see here. I'm looking at what everybody's saying about Greenland. And I'm just a bit curious of where, you know, where everybody thinks that's going to end up. I think over here, everything online is a bit. Yeah, it's not really what you see online. I think most people here, I think they actually like Trump. I think they actually like what's going on. I think the news will make. It seems like it's a bit crazier than it actually is, but I'm curious to see what happens. I'm curious to see when that. I think they're going to take it over, but I just was curious if you guys all thought that that's going to happen here in the next couple months.
- [45:49]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Is it mad is getting a lot of coverage in Europe?
- [45:52]
Matt Gorman
Yeah, yeah, it does.
- [45:54]
Matt Casey
But like, if you look on X, I think you only hear the loudest people. But it's not.
- [45:59]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Are people, are people. Are people talking about it in pubs?
- [46:04]
Matt Casey
Sometimes they always ask me what I think of it. But if I say I like what Trump is doing, they tend to agree to be honest.
- [46:12]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Well, tell us more about that. They agree with what Trump's doing specifically on Greenland or just in general.
- [46:18]
Matt Casey
I think for the most part, people have kind of woken up to this is just how he, how he negotiates. It's just his tactic. It's playbook time and time again. And the people in America will say, oh, the tariffs is causing a rift between NATO and the eu. No, people were smart enough to realize that's just how he, that's just how he talks and he has a bigger thing in mind.
- [46:37]
Mark
So.
- [46:37]
Matt Casey
But it is crazy if you, if you. I live in the most liberal city on earth, Amsterdam. I would say 95 of my friends are Trump supporters. They're all Dutch.
- [46:48]
Matt Gorman
Why?
- [46:50]
Jaime
It.
- [46:50]
Matt Casey
It's grown exponentially before. If you were to look like. Take online, if you just see the amount of people that follow him online, it is crazy. The amount of people that like the stuff. People, my friends here, I would never think they liked it, but you can see that they like all of his posts. They do all this stuff. It is.
- [47:07]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
I'm curious, say it again, Matt.
- [47:10]
Matt Gorman
What do you like about him? Like policy, personality.
- [47:13]
Jaime
What.
- [47:13]
Matt Gorman
What is, what's the. What's the intrigue?
- [47:15]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
We.
- [47:16]
Matt Casey
We're about the most direct people on earth over here. So Trump, in a way, he is also. He's just very direct. But also we have the same problems over here that America does. Immigration is a huge thing.
- [47:27]
Matt Gorman
People.
- [47:27]
Matt Casey
People don't want to talk about it. In America, people will be a lot louder about it here. People are kind of still scared to talk about it, but that's fading because we're seeing especially, I don't know if you guys saw the stuff that happened over here on, on New Year's with the fire. And. Yeah, it, yeah. So it's, people are now kind of getting fed up that, hey, maybe all.
- [47:47]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
These.
- [47:50]
Matt Casey
I want to say it politely, but, like, inviting all these people into the country wasn't necessarily a good idea. And Trump has been saying this for years, and now people are saying, okay, this guy has a point. You know, you can, you can hate him for how brash he is, but people are really coming around to him.
- [48:05]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yeah, go ahead, Matt.
- [48:07]
Matt Gorman
Look, and to go back to the Ukraine stuff, too, like, Vance talked about this earlier in the year, like, his team is a very concrete thought process where, look, the public doesn't like the immigration that's increasing. These European countries, they try to buy them off with more social services, but there's not enough money to go around to do that and share up their defense for Ukraine.
- [48:28]
Jaime
Yeah, look, and I, I, Matt, I, Matt Casey. I, I agree. I, I was in the Netherlands last year, Amsterdam last year. I studied abroad in Liege, Belgium. So I've spent a lot of time in the Netherlands. And I think. And you're like, and you're actually right. I, I was annoyed by it personally, but I saw so many Make America Great Again hats when I was in Amsterdam last year. I was surprised by it. And I think you guys are all right. It's all based on immigration. And I think the thing about tariffs and I think the thing. Why Americans are talking about it all the time, you know, it's not for Americans right now. They don't care about NATO. It's not about NATO. It's about cost. It's about paying too much for sneakers and socks and T shirts and coffee and things like that. Most Americans don't really have a big international thought or opinion. So it's interesting that a lot of Europeans have so much opinion on Donald Trump. Most Americans don't think about the president of the Netherlands and don't even know who the person is. But I think to your point and to Matt Norman's point, President Trump is a cultural phenomenon, and that is just growing. And I've seen it myself. It's growing across the country. It's going across Europe. It really is true.
- [49:36]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
It's our biggest cult, the maga. The MAGA hat is the biggest cultural export from the United States into Europe since Janet Jackson's control.
- [49:43]
Matt Casey
My neighbor just got me one, like, right before Christmas, for Christmas.
- [49:47]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
A new. A new mega hat. Yes. The three. The three big. The three.
- [49:50]
Jaime
Go ahead, man.
- [49:51]
Matt Gorman
Can you wear it out? Like, do you see people wearing MAGA hats out regularly?
- [49:54]
Matt Casey
Yeah, in Sweden you can. In Sweden you can. Here, I would.
- [49:59]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Okay.
- [49:59]
Matt Casey
There's a lot of transplants here in. In Amsterdam, so a lot of people aren't. If you get outside of Amsterdam. Yeah. You would be walking with it. Maybe in Amsterdam.
- [50:08]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
It might be a little bit tricky, Matt, you know. You know, sometimes in AMSTERDAM there's like 30 people riding bikes, like, all in a pack together. You could do.
- [50:15]
Jaime
You could.
- [50:16]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
You could do that if they all wore the hat. You could get away with if you had strength in numbers. But I don't know.
- [50:20]
Matt Casey
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I keep it tucked away in my bathroom.
- [50:23]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
All right, let's follow through on Matt's original question. Matt, thank you for leading and inspiring the great conversation. Jaime, how do you think that this is going to end with Greenland? Do you think it will end with a sale or some sort of negotiation of mineral rights? What do you. And more military?
- [50:38]
Jaime
Yeah, I think a little bit of all the above. But I think ultimately the President Trump will get what he wants out of this. I just can't see him losing, quote, unquote, losing on this particular scenario.
- [50:52]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Matt Gorman, do you agree there'll be.
- [50:54]
Matt Gorman
Some sort of agreement? Yeah. And he'll go over there, shake a big hand, big photo ops. It'll be smiles all around.
- [50:59]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yeah. Matt Casey, thank you for coming. We loved having you. Please come back regularly. Grateful. Yeah.
- [51:03]
Matt Casey
Thanks, guys.
- [51:06]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
I do love. I do love Sioux City.
- [51:08]
Jaime
Me, too. And it is underrated. It is. It does have good Mexican food.
- [51:13]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yeah. It's a great place.
- [51:15]
Jaime
Fairfield. Fairfield, Iowa. There's even better Mexican food there.
- [51:18]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Really one place or lots of places?
- [51:21]
Jaime
Lots of places. And it's a Maharaji school there, so there's a lot of different.
- [51:25]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Where is Fairfield? I don't even know where that is.
- [51:28]
Matt Casey
Oh, God. Is it.
- [51:29]
Jaime
Is it Johnson County? I've forgotten my 99 counties now, so don't test me.
- [51:34]
Matt Gorman
I'll tell you a quick thing. One time I was in a private plane. I won't say what candidate or what campaign coming back from Iowa. And the pilot had some bad Mexican food. Let's just say those private planes are very small. It was not a fun flight.
- [51:45]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Okay, that's a good caution. John, welcome in. Thanks for being part of Two Way welcome and Happy New Year. Tell folks where you are. And what's on your mind? For Hyman. For Matt.
- [51:54]
John
Well, thank you. Happy New Year, everybody. I live in Charlotte, North Carolina. That's where I am. Transplanted here, like a lot of other people, but I've been here for 20 years.
- [52:04]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
So where's that great accent of yours from in the northeast?
- [52:07]
John
New York City. New York City.
- [52:09]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yeah. All right.
- [52:10]
John
Yes.
- [52:11]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Well, welcome, welcome. And tell us what's on your mind.
- [52:14]
John
What's on my mind is, I don't mean to be naive, but going to Venezuela, I'm struck. When will Marco Rubio and, or Donald Trump get around to, do you think, starting a process toward democracy? There's been no call, for example, I understand. Dealing with the current regime. I understand that, but what about, for example, calling for the release of political prisoners? Yeah, some, some kind of gesture, some kind of demand, you know, in that, in that vein.
- [53:00]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yep. Great question, John. I'll go to Matt first, but I'll say not anytime soon. They're in no rush. Matt Gorman.
- [53:09]
Matt Gorman
I, I don't think, I don't think they, they, it's not, they're not really focused on it right now. I think, if anything, it is a further chip. Let's pretend that Delsey Rodriguez isn't doing what they need to do. Like, okay, fine. You have 24 hours. We're calling for elections and we're making, and we're having Guido and Corrado head to neighboring nations. It's all, if they need to, they can use the rampant pressure.
- [53:30]
Jaime
I don't disagree with Matt Gorman at all.
- [53:32]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Okay, John, thank you. I'll just, I'll just say, like, you know, Marco Rubio would like Venezuela to be democratic and, and like fair and free elections. But their, their indications are the best thing now is to, is to keep the thugs in control as long as the thugs are playing ball on the economic stuff and to try to get the economy back up and running and, and then, and then turn to democracy. And, and I, and I think they'll be for new elections rather than validating the previous ones would be my sense from talking to folks.
- [54:05]
Jaime
Mark, the one thing, the one thing I will say, and Secretary Rubio is a brilliant. And, you know, we don't, we differ on politics a lot, but we have to remember he's a brilliant man. He studied these particular issues for a very long time. And so he's very attuned, I think, to this, more so than even President Trump and J.D. vance. And so I'm particularly looking to see how Mark Rubio handles this.
- [54:28]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Yep. And they're very deferential to him because of that expertise. He has a tweet from the Secretary of Homeland Security about the Coast Guard efforts to interdict not one ship, it turns out, but two. There's some video that goes along with this. I'll read you a little bit of the Secretary Noem's tweet. In two pre dawn operations today, the Coast Guard conducted back to back meticulously coordinated boarding of two Ghost fleet tanker ships, one in the North Atlantic Sea and one in international waters near the Caribbean. Both vessels, the motor tank. Sorry, I'm getting, getting a source calling me here. Motor tanker Bella 1 and the motor tanker Sophia. Beautiful names for these ships. Here you can see some video if you're watching us on YouTube or X of of the ship where that looks like a video game to me. Is that a real video? That looks like a Saturday Night Live spoof of something. Both ships were either last stocked in Venezuela or en route to it praises President Trump. Then she says the world's criminals are on notice. You can run, but you can't hide. And here's another tweet from this is from the White House. U.S. energy Secretary says Washington will take over the sale of Venezuelan crude with funds deposited in a US Controlled account to benefit the Venezuelan people. So this is a little bit more detail than we got from the President yesterday. This is from a Bloomberg reporter who says the details are very unclear, but it seems to signal Trump would allow large imports of Venezuelan crude. Again, fleshing out what the President said last night. All right, let's, let's see if we can get one more question in here briefly. Quickly. Mark, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are and what's on your mind as you're there flanked by two of your pals. There you go.
- [56:22]
Mark
Hello. Happy New Year.
- [56:24]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Happy New Year, Mark.
- [56:25]
Mark
And Happy New Year the next way community or two way. So my, my comment I'd like to hear from you about is kind of going off, Mark, on your wonderful monologue last night on Next up about Marco Rubio and also going off of what you just said, Jaime too. So now I don't want you to ask if this would happen, but just say this did happen like a thought experiment. So we're given an announcement. J.D. vance is going to make an announcement. All the press turns out and they think he's going to announce his candidacy. But instead he says, you know, I have three young kids. I don't want to disrupt their lives moving into the White House. They're very nice here at the Naval Observatory with 200, you know, acres or whatever. So I'm not running. Then Marco Rubio steps up and he goes, I am running. So Marco says I'm running and I would pick JD as my running mate for a vice president again. So this is what's happened. This is. And you comment on this and just some of the dynamics I'm thinking of. JD Wins the hearts of all mothers by, by giving it up for his kids. Marco Rubio, the first Mexican or Latin American, Cuban American to run for president. If you don't vote for him, you're a racist. Marco has been right there next to Trump during all these foreign policy successes while JD hasn't really because they try to keep them separate. So this is just the setup instead of. And I love JD I mean I want to see him with Turning Point. I want to see him owning those Sunday talk show people like he does so brilliantly. And I just think the dynamics of the race. Marco could resign and, and go full time. Whereas if JD can't resign. And also his first question, every single question from the press is going to be the view question. How are you different than Trump? How are you different? And I think that Trump stink if it's still there will be more on Vance than on Marco. So.
- [58:25]
Jaime
Yeah.
- [58:25]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
All right, Mark, fascinating hypothetical. I'll say two things about it, then turn over to Matt and Hyman a comment. First of all, your hypotheticals as likely as Matt Gorman adopting triplets tomorrow. So that's not the question. I understand.
- [58:38]
Jaime
Yeah.
- [58:39]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
And then. And then second is just one annotation on your Otherwise I thought excellent outline which is the Vice President's heavily involved in foreign policy. A lot of it's behind the scenes, but he is heavily involved in every foreign policy. Okay so Matt Gorman, how do you. How do you like Mark's type of.
- [58:55]
Matt Gorman
Hey look, it's fun to. To BS about. I don't think it's very realistic and question. I know but like I, I can, I can imagine what it's like to have dragons flying around here know. But like it doesn't matter. I think with respect look, I, I think Marco the. The evolution of Marco from 2015, 2016. Marco running for president, joking about Trump's hand and other appendage size to now is nothing like we ever seen before. I think you know, people I think read into separation between Trump and Vance, Trump and Rubio, Vance and Rubio at their own peril. I think these are, are far more connected, far more in touch than I think we give them credit for. And so I, I will just, I'll, I'll leave it there.
- [59:49]
Jaime
Yeah. And look, I'm, I'm, I'm incredibly biased here because I just don't enjoy the, the Vice president at all. And I, and I've been a, a secret liberal fan of Marco for, for, for quite some time now, less now than I used to be. But look, I was talking to my, to my colleague Mike Reed about this last week, who used to run, you know, my, you know, Mike, Matt really well, who ran the communications at the rnc. And I came in just like you, Mark. I said, oh, my God, I think Marco is going to be the nominee. And he goes, no, no, that's just not the, you know this. A lot of these party politics are still inside baseball. And what J.D. vance has done such a great job in doing is when Marco's running around the world, J.D. vance is in the, in the country talking to donors, talking to RNC committee committee members, talking to the state party chairs, and he's actually helping run the apparatus of the Republican Party in a way that's going to be really beneficial for him. Secondly, what's going to happen, and this happened with Hillary Clinton back in, when she was secretary of state. J.D. vance is going to be able to run around the country this year and campaign in every battleground state for every battleground member of Congress, for the Senate, for the governors. Marco Rubio cannot do that because he can't do those type of domestic politics. And so JD Vance is going to, you're going to start seeing him have even more of an advantage this year. And he's going to make a lot of friends. You know, he's a, he's a guy from the Senate, so he's going to make a lot of congressional friends. And so he's eons ahead of Marco toward the nomination.
- [61:15]
Mark
But that's.
- [61:16]
Host (possibly a senior moderator or anchor)
Again, Mark. Understand, understand, Mark. Our answer would be if the hypothetical happened, all bets would be off. But you, but what you've laid out as a hypothetical, if it happened, there's a logic to it. And, and, and, and, and he would be a very strong candidate for the reasons. Yeah, he'd be very strong for the reason he said. Mark, thank you. Grateful to you. Sorry all three of us have problems with the hypotheticals like that. Our brains don't quite function that way. All right, thanks for mentioning my monologue again. The new episode of Next up, available now podcast and on YouTube. Great, uh, conversation. Kevin Walling and Kristen Davison about the Democrats and the year ahead in politics. Jessica Reed Kraus. And I talk about how she does what she does and my monologue on Marco Rubio and how he went From Trump opponent 10 years ago to now being so influential in the administration. If you want to know what I'm doing the rest of the morning, besides annotating the transcripts of all the smack in the chat, I'm going to be on Smerconish now. So I got to go in a moment. On with Megyn Kelly later on two way tonight at 6 o'. Clock. Tonight at noon, Citizen McCain. Megan remains on attorney leave, but special episode Nikki Schwab will be on Cena Gazi. And of course, Miranda has you covered. Miranda sitting in for Megan while Megan is out. And we will be back tomorrow at 9:00am Eastern Time for thank you very much, everybody. Have a good day.
- [62:39]
Matt Casey
It see you.