Murder at The U on The Dan LeBatard Show with Stugotz

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Murder at The U" on The Dan LeBatard Show with Stugotz

Podcast: 30 for 30 Podcasts
Air Date: March 31, 2026
Host: Dan LeBatard & Stugotz
Guests: Paula Lavigne & Dana RuDa, reporters and hosts of "Murder at the U"
Topic: The aftermath and investigative reporting on the 2006 murder of Miami Hurricanes football player Brian Pata, and the systemic issues with the Miami-Dade Police Department's handling of the case after a recent hung jury.

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Episode Overview

This episode is a wide-ranging, Miami-flavored conversation tied to ESPN’s acclaimed "Murder at the U" podcast – a deep dive into the unsolved 2006 murder of University of Miami football star Brian Pata. The show oscillates between the celebratory and the somber: festive 305 Day shenanigans blend with a serious discussion on justice, investigative journalism, and police accountability, culminating in an interview with the reporting team behind the "Murder at the U" podcast.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

305 Day Banter and Miami Culture (00:30–11:00)

• The show kicks off with a raucous celebration of "305 Day" (March 5th, Miami’s area code day), filled with in-jokes about Miami culture, area code pride, and playful beef between staffers repping different South Florida numbers.
  • "This isn't America, Jack. This is Miami, Jack." (01:21, Speaker D)
  • Skits, costumes, and local traditions set a lively, irreverent tone before the show veers into deeper territory.
• Miami Hurricanes basketball and the Miami Heat are briefly discussed, underscoring the hosts’ loyalty and the city’s sports obsession.

The True Crime Podcast Phenomenon & Unease (06:44–08:23)

• Dan LeBatard reflects on the cultural obsession with true crime podcasts:
  • "America has a mental illness when it comes to being addicted to these murder podcasts..." (06:47, Speaker B)
  • There’s ambivalence about reliving tragic moments for entertainment and the impact of such content on both audiences and victims’ families.

Miami Basketball and NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) Era (11:13–26:04)

• Discussion of University of Miami basketball’s historic season and its implications.
• Deep dive into the changing economics of college sports:
  • BYU's star basketball recruit reportedly earns $7 million annually from NIL deals.
  • Evolving NCAA landscape debated: impact on athlete development, draft decisions, and the possible end of systematic team "tanking" in the NBA.
  • "We're paying college freshmen in basketball twice as much as we're paying college quarterbacks." (20:22, Speaker B)

Introduction to "Murder at the U" and Reporting Challenges (27:01–40:12)

Police Investigation Failures (27:52–28:58)

• Paula Lavigne: "We found so many things with errors with Miami-Dade Police. They didn't interview witnesses they should have interviewed. They lost documents, they lost track of people. I think the biggest one was ... the key eyewitness. They said, 'he's dead.' ESPN found that he was not dead .... Unfortunately ... the passage of time has degraded his memory." (27:59)
  • Lack of thoroughness, misplaced critical evidence, and failed witness follow-ups highlighted.

The Pata Family’s Ordeal (29:14–30:15)

• Dana RuDa: "The Pata family ... came in 18 strong on day one ... Jeanette Pata, Brian's mother, wheeled in every day, showing her support. And it just breaks your heart to know that they're gonna have to do this all over again." (29:33)
  • Family’s pain is ongoing due to the trial ending in a mistrial, forcing them to relive trauma.

The Elusive Justice and Police Accountability (30:22–32:21)

• Paula Lavigne: "The facts aren't very good and they're not entirely complete ... I think one thing ... the Miami Dade Police Department and the state attorney's office should offer to the Pata family ... is an apology—an apology for what they didn't do for so many years, ... for the pain and anguish that they've suffered on top of losing their loved one." (30:22)
• The Miami-Dade PD has not issued such an apology; reasons remain unclear.

Reporting Versus Police Investigation (33:01–33:46)

• Dan RuDa: "To date, we've interviewed well over 100 people. We've gathered more than 5,000 documents ... The Miami Dade Police were not expecting us to shine a flashlight into their work ... We were the ones that finally got to show the public that Rashaun Jones was a primary suspect the entire time, despite them holding that evidence back." (33:01)
  • Journalists often did more legwork than authorities.

ESPN’s Investigation Impact (33:59–35:05)

• ESPN’s reporting, and a lawsuit for case records, may have forced Miami-Dade PD to finally move on the case and arrest Brian Pata’s former teammate, Rashawn Jones—despite a lack of new evidence.

Key Unsolved Mystery: The Missing Phone Records (35:27–36:49)

• Dan RuDa: "Pretty early on ... Chris Sellner ... was adamant that less than an hour before Brian was murdered, he overheard Brian ... in a very heated discussion ... We still haven't been able to find all of the phone records ... to this day, we don't know whether that phone call actually had anything to do with Brian's murder." (35:27)
  • Significant evidence possibly lost due to time.

Objectivity and Unanswered Questions (37:23–39:16)

• Both Lavigne and RuDa, even after years of work, do not claim to know for certain what happened.
  • Dan RuDa: "I still have no idea whether Rashawn Jones was there, and he pulled that trigger." (37:39)
  • Paula Lavigne: "There's not enough evidence there to point me in that direction ... it's not just the evidence pointing to Rashawn Jones. It's all the other leads the police had ... those leads weren't completely exhausted." (38:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On police investigative failure
  "ESPN found that he was not dead, which is generally a pretty black and white thing when you're investigating someone."
  — Paula Lavigne (27:59)

• On systemic mishandling
  "I just feel like someone needs to say to them, like, look, we dropped the ball. And I don't know if that's happened, but I do think that they're owed that."
  — Paula Lavigne (32:13)

• On the emotional toll of the mistrial
  "It just breaks your heart to know that they're gonna have to do this all over again."
  — Dana RuDa (29:42)

• On a pivotal investigative moment
  "He said something to the effect of the person on the other line will come and get it. ... We still haven't been able to find all of the phone records ... So to this day, we don't know whether that phone call actually had anything to do with Brian's murder. It's a mystery that we really want solved."
  — Dana RuDa (35:27–36:03)

• On pushing for objective truth
  "I've been at this for eight years. ... I still have no idea whether Rashawn Jones was there, and he pulled that trigger ... But I'm not sure at the end of the day, we're ever gonna know the full truth."
  — Dana RuDa (37:39)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Miami/305 Day Banter: 00:30–11:00
• True Crime Podcast Discussion: 06:44–08:23
• College Basketball & NIL Discussion: 11:13–26:23
• Introduction to "Murder at the U": 27:01
• Interview – Police Failures: 27:52
• Interview – Family Impact: 29:14
• Interview – What Justice Means: 30:22
• Interview – Impact of Investigation: 33:01
• Interview – Missing Phone Records: 35:27
• Interview – Lack of Clear Conclusion: 37:23
• Closing Moments: 39:16–40:12

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Tone & Style

• The episode flips between irreverent, culturally specific Miami humor and earnest, investigative journalism.
• The hosts bring skepticism and self-awareness to both the true crime genre and the coverage of local institutions.
• Paula Lavigne and Dana RuDa speak in plain, careful language befitting both the gravity of the subject and journalistic standards.

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For Listeners Looking for Answers

This episode is essential for understanding both the heart and heartbreak behind the "Murder at the U" podcast:

• The Miami Police’s investigative gaps are laid bare.
• The Pata family’s ongoing pain is voiced.
• Key evidence and leads remain unpursued, raising questions about justice even after years of coverage and a hung jury.
• The journalists underscore the limitations of even the most diligent reporting when dealing with institutional failure and the passage of time.

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Related Content & Next Steps

• Murder at the U podcast – ESPN’s 7-part investigative audio series.
• Because Miami w/ Billy Corben – Upcoming episode to further address the case and issues raised.
• The LeBatard show continues to engage with debates around sports, justice, and Miami’s culture.

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This detailed summary should provide listeners—new or existing—with a nuanced, well-structured understanding of the episode’s most important themes, findings, and emotional moments.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, everyone. This is Preeti Varadhan from 30 for 30 podcasts. Three days after the trial of Rashawn Jones, Paula Levine and Dana Ruda, the host for Murder at the U, joined the Dan Lebatard show with Stugotz to talk about the latest developments in the Brian Pata case. It was a thoughtful conversation with Dan and his producers, several of whom are lifelong Miami Hurricane fans. Today we're dropping that full episode into our feed and they get into a lot more than just our reporting. So prepare yourself for some Miami flavored absurdity. We hope you enjoy.

[B]

We're late starting this because Chris Cody was shouting headphones as you need headphones. And Zaz couldn't hear him from underneath the bald cap. Couldn't hear. Didn't know that he had to put on his headphones trying to look authentic. So before we get to today's show, can you guys explain to me why it is as I'm doing some research for a story about Brian Pata and murder, I'm hearing you guys throw chancletas in in the other room.

[C]

Dan, what day is it today?

[B]

It's Thursday.

[C]

Okay, what date?

[B]

I don't know. What is it? March 4th?

[C]

March 5th. 3:05. Our same area code. 305. So it's 305 day. Dan, you heard of 305 day, isn't it?

[B]

Oh, 35 day if you're in Europe, buddy.

[C]

This is America, Jack.

[D]

Like, what do you.

[C]

What do you mean? You put the. You put the day in front of the month now.

[D]

This isn't America, Jack. This is Miami, Jack.

[C]

Exactly right.

[D]

And this is a, A, a couple year standing long tradition where Miamians make a big deal. This day to celebrate all things Miami.

[C]

Exactly right.

[B]

Mike Trista, do you know anything about 305 day? You're dancing as if you're feeling it in your waist.

[A]

Well, I like to pause. I like the.

[E]

Huh.

[A]

I like the music.

[D]

HR Right?

[A]

Let's just keep going. Don't make it weird.

[C]

Just keep it moving.

[A]

Never heard of it, but I hear that. I've got some things that I need to do. I've got like a station. I have to let people.

[D]

What are we doing?

[B]

What are we doing? What's a station? What does she. What does she mean? What's she talking about?

[C]

Dan, I brought in some firepower, okay? For 305 day. We brought in 305 legends here to the studio to make things happen. We're going to make things a little spicy, okay? A little exciting here on 305day. Later on in the show.

[A]

Percolator. Some sort of percolator. Coffee Percolate.

[D]

We're percolating on It's a competition, a team competition with all sorts of Miami centric things that you have to accomplish.

[C]

Don't tell them too much.

[D]

You are the most M I'm not telling them too much.

[C]

Don't tell them too much.

[A]

I'm not the most.

[D]

I'm literally not telling them too much.

[C]

Don't tell them too much.

[A]

I'm not the most Miami. I I know that I I don't think I'm going to I think I'm not going to be successful at this.

[D]

I I don't have been more don't

[C]

tell him too much.

[D]

This is the Dan Levator show with the Stugats podcast.

[B]

The Charlotte Hornets, huh?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Trista said yesterday. The most fun team in the league. They beat the last three defending champions by 20 plus points and it's the first team to do that in 60 years. The Hornets. This is the best stretch they've ever had.

[C]

They only had to be bad for a decade to do it.

[A]

It's the best that you've seen a team beat the hell out of other teams in the last six games since the 2017, 2018 Warriors. We are talking about the next, next, next next defending champs.

[F]

They're over 500. Do you think you'd ever be alive

[B]

to see the day they're 163 in their last 19 and that starting lineup with Brandon Miller and Lamella Ball and Knipple is 22 this season.

[C]

Moose. Moose.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

You forgot about Moose at the abate Dan.

[B]

I did forget about him because I didn't know about him.

[C]

You didn't know about Moose.

[D]

I'm just learning about it. But I wrote it down. I'm an NBA guy, good player. Look these interesting it's no I'm into the NBA at least in one conference right now.

[F]

There's a very real chance that because you know the Miami Heat, they're going to be a plan team. It's their invitational every year. There's a very real chance that the final game of the play in to get the number 8 seed is Charlotte at Miami in a winner take all.

[B]

Who are you supposed to be dressed like? Because I think you're one of it seems like one of the men in black done poorly. Like if they were bald. If the men in black in the

[D]

matrix you know you are Jason Statham.

[C]

Agent Smith.

[F]

Keep going.

[B]

Who are you supposed to be right now and why do you have a bald cap on Your bald head. Why do you.

[F]

I'm going for authenticity. You know about that? Authenticity.

[B]

The authenticity would be if you had just your normal bald head. Well, who are you? What are you? What are you being to me?

[F]

Well, this is 305 day number one, so I don't know why it's taking you so many guesses. I mean, look at your boy here. Who am I?

[D]

Stanley. Stanley Tucci.

[F]

Who am I? Come on now, Dolly.

[B]

Oh, now I know a pitbull. Now Armando. Now I know.

[F]

Now I am sacito.

[B]

Okay, so he is pitbull. I was saying right before we started here that I. I can't believe Zaz has already paid more penalties than the rest of the people who have always worked here combined.

[F]

Well, it's called integrity.

[B]

That is what it's called. You are the one, the chief integrity soaked person that we have around here. Tony, you and Jeremy are wearing the same thing, but you're not.

[C]

Yeah. Oh, wow. I didn't.

[D]

That's a good way to describe it.

[C]

I didn't even realize that.

[D]

Yeah, the same top, but I mean. Yeah, we're both wearing another same bottom.

[C]

Yeah. Nice little black button down shirt with some glasses on. Yeah, no, we look good. His is unbuttoned a little bit more.

[D]

Yeah, they both decided to wear a black shirt that's on you guys.

[B]

So 305 Day is gonna entail what? Because I have. At the end of this hour, Mike has no enthusiasm for what it is that we're doing. Toward the end of this hour, the Murder at the U podcast has become very popular. You've heard me talk about how I believe that America has a mental illness when it comes to being addicted to these murder podcasts that I don't think are helping anyone stay sane while they're driving around. But it's a huge economy. The murder podcast and this one, an unsolved murder for 20 years of a former University of Miami football player, Brian Pata. This podcast has become very popular because they've dug deep on what was a hung jury this week. They evidently. We'll get more information later in the show. But evidently a hung jury on what would have been resolution to that crime that still leaves a family with no resolution. That seems to be an odd thing, but also an appropriate thing to put right in the middle of a 305 celebration.

[F]

How was it? I'm sorry, Mike? How was it a hung jury? Because, I mean, look, I haven't paid close attention the last few weeks to it, but wasn't it just. It was Like a couple years ago, where weren't we sure that it was the guy in the picture who, you know, may have done it?

[D]

Everybody was pretty sure about that. And that I think, look, I'm exactly the kind of guy that's not into a podcast series that's reliving arguably the darkest day in the history of the Miami program. It's a terrible tragedy. It makes me sad. I know it's awfully convenient for me to say I don't wanna see it because it makes me feel a certain way. But it also blends worlds with another issue that I have, which is true podcasts, true crime podcasts in general, because they, and I used to be into them. And then I realized, wait, I'm part of an impressionable audience that is taking in content, and I'm putting a lot of trust in producers who may be motivated by telling the truth. But also, how is that prioritized against making something compelling, making something entertaining? And I think it's kind of wrought this whole Internet sleuthing culture that sometimes does some really good work and sometimes misses the mark. And I do think it's an important thing to note that this is an active trial that just had a hung jury and you have a piece of content that has led people a certain way. I don't know what happened. I would love justice to be brought especially for the Pata family. But when you couple the typical Miami sensationalism of espn and I know Miami, I'm not really holding that against them, but I'm just explaining why I'm always out on that stuff. And the true crime podcast genre as a whole, this is just not for me.

[B]

So when you say darkest days in University of Miami history, it's when I think of that, I think of there have been two murders of players, right? It's this and Marlon Barnes. Right. And I think that this one being unsolved and being resurrected 20 years later is something that has caught the country's attention. We will have the reporters of that story on later this hour. We're also going to do some of the 305 things. You're gonna have to explain to me what these games are. I see the C O. No paddles out here. I also know Tony thought that 305 Day made it, that he was exonerated from having to work, that he doesn't have to work like everybody else does.

[C]

It's a celebration, Dan. And obviously this is, you know, very much our day. It's my day, obviously, as you can see. And it's Like, I didn't think that I was gonna need to be here to do these things. Right. Like, Carl put me in the schedule, and I was gonna be like, Carl, like 305 day. Like, you know, obviously Roy's over in Key west with Rose doing whatever he's doing. Celebrating. 305. These are 954. So are these guys up front. Nine, five, four is all of them.

[F]

Feel like it's probably one of many days. Tony feels like he shouldn't have to work.

[B]

You too.

[C]

954 over there trying to cosplay as my. As my culture.

[F]

Yo, my cell phone is 305. And everybody knows whatever your cell phone is, that's what you're about. I'm 305.

[D]

Then why are you dressed as Alan Arkin?

[E]

Question.

[A]

If you move to Broward, can you still rep the 305?

[D]

That's what I do.

[B]

Not.

[F]

That's what I do.

[C]

There's only one guy that can. That's you done as Haslam. That's it. Everybody else cannot.

[D]

He can.

[B]

Most of the people here, I think, are 7, 8, 6. Are they not all your. All of your.

[C]

I'm 305er, sir.

[F]

Big phonies.

[D]

Yeah. That's also younger people because all the 305 numbers were taken.

[C]

I was OG in that. Dan Barry.

[B]

I'm my phone. 786. And it's been the same phone number for 20 years. But they did change it on me at some point. Like, they. I don't even know what the rules were on that.

[C]

I had the first seven, eight, six.

[B]

It was very confusing to me. I didn't like it. I still.

[C]

You guys back in the day didn't have area codes, right? Like, you would just dial number.

[F]

Seven digits. That had to be wild.

[C]

Like four, six, four real thing.

[F]

Crazy.

[D]

People would ask me for my number, and I'd started off with like 554.

[F]

Yep. Seven digits. Get you where you're going.

[B]

Heck.

[F]

407, which is Orlando. 407 used to be in Broward Upper Broward.

[G]

I could tell.

[C]

Orlando Broward. Same thing

[B]

I have in my phone here. When I. I didn't know this. When it came to celebrity. There is a celebrity cell phone number that I have that I've never seen before. It ends with four zeros. Have you guys ever, ever dialed a telephone number that ends with four zeros? Put it on the poll at Le Batard show. Have you ever dialed the telephone number that ends with four zeros? Look at that. That's all of you are holding up the note.

[C]

I have, but it was something else. Yeah.

[B]

We are celebrating today 305 day and we've gotten from ESPN the intellectual property of highly questionable and papi. C O. No. We're going to play C O. No. Here in. In a second. But to celebrate the University of Miami want as March begins here and we get into college basketball. The University of Miami dragged SMU yesterday. And when you're talking about what is their record, Mike, it's 24 and 6. I don't think that they have had many teams that have been this good through 30 games in their history.

[D]

So, no, this is one of the best records in Miami history.

[B]

24 and 6. And yesterday they didn't even play that well.

[D]

16 turnovers.

[B]

They turned. They turned the ball. That's just in the second half.

[D]

It was crazy.

[B]

That was just in the second half.

[D]

Kind of slept walk through an away game at what is presently predicted to be a tournament team coached by Andy Anfield.

[B]

All right. But the thing that I wanted to put in front of the audience because it is Andy Anfield and those boys and Jermaine O' Neal Jr. Is on SMU's team as well.

[A]

I think it's field.

[D]

Yeah, it's field. I think. Man, it's been such a long time since Dunk City. I forgot that he was at USC for a while. Boopy Miller. Hard to kill.

[B]

Yeah, he can score a little bit. The game that I saw last night, though. Okay. The University of Miami is bad at threes. I've been saying I don't think that team can go too deep in the tournament because they're playing five guys. But they got contributions last night for beyond the five. Right. And so they're not good at threes. But they have a guy who I was introduced to last night who's I'm thinking, 41 years old, and he's shooting threes like a professional. And in the last 17 games, he had made six. But since the second half of this weekend, he's made eight. Like he's eight for his last nine from threes. They don't have that as part of their skill set. They throw the ball at the shot clock and then they're more muscular than you. And it's why Shelton Henderson is over 13 on his last threes. And I'm surprised. I'm surprised anytime he makes a three.

[D]

Why wasn't Eric Dickerson at SMU to watch his nephew that we all learned about two weeks ago? Is it because he also Learned two weeks ago that that's his nephew.

[B]

George Bush was at the game.

[D]

I know ptsd. I was like the Chihuahua meme with the choppers in the background, watching George at an SMU Miami game.

[B]

Don LeBatard.

[D]

That's not my favorite rejoin.

[C]

Context needs to be applied for a

[D]

joke, and I thought that context was applied. We. We'd like to rip that out of context. I was going for a thing, and you're gonna.

[B]

You're gonna.

[D]

I have a family.

[B]

You're gonna pretend here that you don't love Matthew Tkachuk more than you love anybody you've ever loved.

[D]

I. I don't love Matthew Tkachuk more than my daughter. Stugats now. It's pretty damn close.

[F]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats.

[C]

Foreign.

[B]

How old is Dovrat? Dovrat?

[D]

Noam Dovrat. I mean, he played professionally in Israel. And you're right, Dan. This is something that. He fell out of the rotation very early in the season. Miami had a very tight rotation. We were right to criticize their lack of depth. But Noem coming online this weekend, and it's been apparently a challenge. They mentioned this on the broadcast yesterday, for Jay Lucas to get him confident enough to the point to shoot the ball. When he has a shot, he has a neon green, green light. They were saying on the broadcast that his name around the team is Gnome Shoot the Ball. Gnome Shoot the Ball. And you can see why he's excellent from downtown. And that is a layer to this team that, as you mentioned, they have been completely missing. It helps with the depth issues. It helps when you run into zones which this team will run into. I think it's hugely important for a Miami team that I think we kind of undersold the talent on. They have developed. And you look at guys like Trey Donaldson, who, at 6 foot 3, and that consistent running layup that he has, and his ability to shoot from downtown and his ability to defend. He's a pro. Wait, Yuda. He's a pro.

[B]

Wait, wait, wait. All right. You underestimated the talent on this team because you were questioning when they were 17 and 6 whether or not this is a tournament team. And now what you're saying is you think the skill set on this team has. Well, this is what you're saying. More pros than any University of Miami basketball team has ever had on the roster at one time is what you're saying.

[D]

Yeah, I was thinking that in comparison to the team that made it to the Final Four, you Had Jordan Miller, Norchad o' Mear scored his first.

[F]

I saw you made his NBA debut North Chad.

[D]

Yeah, I love the aggregation algorithm that I'm on right now, which is anytime he does something, you want a good algorithm. Now finally, first Nicaraguan to get a personal foul. I get a tile that tells me that I'm like, all right, baby food. Great first assist, amazing. But you know, those are guys that have had to go through the G League and I do think that Miami and I know Uday is limited. So what? He's a big man. Like I'm not saying he's Dirk Nowitzki, but he has the lateral speed to come out and defend on the perimeter. He's basically DeAndre Jordan around the hoop. You know, he's not a terrible free throw shooter. He was immense on the defensive end last night. So yeah, I think that they got three guys that are going to have careers and opportunities in the NBA. Especially Shelton who came in as a five star and has the body and physical attributes set.

[F]

My algorithm's all boobs, but shocking.

[D]

I'm really encouraged about this team where I thought, you know, we're a feisty team, we're hard nosed, we're going to be a pill to play in the tournament. And then they lost FSU and I didn't really know how to reconcile with that. But it was just a little mid season hiccup. They're better for that adversity. And you watch this team play and you're like, man, this isn't just full school. Like some of these guys are legit.

[C]

Good.

[F]

Are they going to be able to get double by?

[D]

Oh yeah. They're locked in as a three seed in the ACC tournament.

[F]

What, four get double buys?

[D]

Yes.

[B]

All right then I want to though again 24 and 6. I don't know a lot of Miami teams ever that have started that way through 30 games. I told you that I thought of this last. They've won seven of eight. The most impressive one to me was the one they lost where they go to Virginia, they're on the road. They're going punch for punch with a top 15 team that shoot shooting 50% from three. And at the end of the game a foul does them in. But this is what was available last night that I hadn't seen all season. That's a professional three point shooter. That guy looked. All their other players don't. I mean Donaldson can shoot threes, but all their other players look like I can't trust them when they're shooting.

[D]

Renu can too, but he's selective. No, he's not an outside guy. He's an inside guy and you need him inside.

[B]

No renew makes threes at a 30% clip. If he's wide open, he will take them and he will make them for big man. But when I'm watching last night and I'm hearing Jim Boeheim yell, yell of dovrat, you can't leave him open. I'm like, what world am I watching where it's Jim Boeheim saying you can't leave a guy open who had six threes in the last 17 games before the second half of this weekend.

[D]

It's an amazing job by Jay Lucas. He's brought in a bunch of Florida guys. You know, you talk about like putting a fence around your recruiting area. These are a lot of Florida guys that are on this team and it's mixed in with a healthy dose of Europeans. And I think you could say Jay Lucas has pretty much hit on everybody. And Jim Boeheim was touting Jay Lucas as national coach of the year this year. Like this is an amazing first year when you consider where he had to pick up the tatters of this program, that he had to have this program rise from the ashes from what's the

[F]

over under right now on what how many years Jay Lucas is here?

[D]

Oh, that. Yeah, Every Kentucky game. I'm worried. I think, I think it's different now. And I'm not saying things like tradition don't matter. Rupp Arenas, awe inspiring. I think there are a lot of great programs that have committed a lot of nil. But I do think it's a different era. And it's not like this program hasn't shown you what it's capable of in very recent years and go into an elite eight and then a final four. I do think things like program tradition in a day like today where a guy who is so great at talent acquisition, he can build something here. So I actually think he's going to stay for a couple seasons and not just be one and done like a lot of people assume.

[C]

And you're talking about a new era. BYU is getting 5 star after 5 star after 5 star has a number 1 pick coming out if he wants to go. Now there's a report that he may not go. That's the whole weird part about this whole nil situation is he's going to make. If he continues to play, let's say he plays all four years in college, might make $30 million.

[B]

Wait a minute. What, what do you Mean the number one pick in the draft. It's a freshman's not coming out.

[A]

Yeah, he said his mom wants him to graduate. Mamas, they lead the charge on these.

[B]

Okay, Mamas, but how much is he being paid at BYU, Mama?

[A]

$7 million. At BYU per year. Well, just this year. This year might even get more if he stays.

[B]

No, wait a minute.

[D]

That's that crumble money. You know about that crumble money?

[B]

Wait a minute.

[A]

Hold on a second about soaking.

[B]

We're paying. We're paying college freshmen and basketball twice as much as we're paying college quarterbacks.

[E]

Yep.

[B]

Since when?

[A]

Since ajdb. Nasty.

[B]

This is a first here. There is a player in college basketball making $7 million a year saying he might not go to the pros. What does Cooper Flag make like? It's. Is it gonna be more, Is it gonna be advantageous? It can't be more profitable to be in college than in the pros, can it?

[A]

No. He's making 13 million in his rookie contract. But listen, BYU and Provo have a lot of money and they want to keep AJ and they ended up just getting a top 5 kid. A 5 star for this next class. BYU is the future.

[F]

I hear Provo College.

[A]

Yeah, I hear it is.

[B]

How are you guys not shocked by that number? I've got to think that is this a widely known thing that there is a player in College Basketball making $7 million a year?

[C]

Yeah. Last year when they said, hey, he's going to make 7 million bucks. And it was like, wow, that's a lot. Okay, what are we doing? Then it's like, why is he going to BYU against the kid from Boston? Why is he going to byu? And now they got another five star kid coming on top of another five star kid who's already there. And you look at the disparity of college basketball and it's like completely different there.

[E]

There.

[D]

There is a segment of the population which I think I would be lumped into, which is, all right, let me turn. If my college basketball team isn't good, I'm just gonna follow the sport in March. And then you're appreciative of these mega teams that Calipari would build. Like, okay, five NBA guys on one team. I can do that. But now, not unlike football, the talent is going everywhere and you have more wide open competition. And I think it, like it is in football is going to be better for the sport.

[B]

I'm gonna put this on the poll. I don't believe the audience at large would not be surprised by that. Information. Put it on the poll at LeBatard show. Are you surprised that a college basketball player at BYU is making $7 million a year? I knew he was the number one overall pick. I did not know that that was the going price.

[F]

When else is byu, you know, paid players, they've been saving up for this moment. They are the money.

[D]

Now I. There's even talk that Shelton Henderson is going to stick around for another year. And I think he's a little different because there are obvious holes in his game that he can develop. But usually those guys work it out on, on the NBA level and go from there. It's a new age.

[C]

Everybody was tired of the one and done. It's killing college basketball. There's no more seniors. There's no. They don't exist. And the guys that are seniors and juniors are not good enough to play in the league. Now NIL is going to allow for these guys to basically make a career.

[D]

That's right. No, Nigel Pack is still playing college basketball.

[C]

Play basketball for six.

[D]

Really? Yeah, he's at Oklahoma.

[C]

He was in the 2020 class.

[A]

Well, I think the thing that's actually more interesting about AJ and this like comments that he's making is you've got all these NBA teams that are tanking and they're tanking egregiously and they're not places that a guy like AJ May want to play. So he throws out in this interview, like, hey, I, I may not. I may not come into the draft. Like, I may stay four years. Like, if you're, if you're a team like Utah, you are shitting your pants. You know what? This is like, we've been tanking for three years for this kid. And if you tell me we got a tank for three more, Danny, I don't know if he can do it.

[F]

You know what that right there might be. The solution to tanking is that NIL is going to stop tanking. You have players, you have kids who are going to stay in school maybe because you can come out any. You know, at least with the NFL, you know, they're either coming out after year three or year four with the NBA. Is it going to come out this year to come out this year to come out this year? Like, who knows? Maybe Nil is going to solve tanking.

[C]

Reason for guys to stay now is that they can make some amount of money that they weren't making before. But the bigger part is you still want to come out because you want to get closer to that next contract. While 7 million might be close to the 13 million that you're making and you might make more coming back for that second season. You don't want to be 27 years old as you're trying to go for that first max contract because you'll have opportunities for two of those 200 to $400 million deals.

[A]

Well, Adam Silver says everything's on the table, Jeremy, for tanking. So maybe we can give a rookie a max contract right when he comes out.

[F]

It's code for he doesn't have a clue.

[C]

That's true. He's a nothing, right?

[F]

Nothing.

[C]

Nothing. I agree with you there. But the other thing too is like, this is not talking about elite star guys coming out of the high school into college. The one and done guys are always going to be one and done. They're just going to get a bigger bag on the front end. This is for guys that take a couple years to develop that all of a sudden at 22, 23, they've made 10 million bucks in three or four seasons and then all of a sudden are ready to play NBA basketball or at least get into the G league and then start, you know, preparing like. Like a Norchad o'. Mear. Jordan Miller, who's been great. Like, there's a lot of that trajectory for those middle guys.

[B]

You say seniors and juniors aren't playing. The University of Miami had was a senior not in school. That shooter last night is 40 years old.

[C]

Shame on him, by the way. Shame on him. If he's a professional and he played basketball and he knows what his three pointer is, why is he afraid to shoot in college basketball? Buddy, this is nothing.

[D]

Right. Which is what Jay Lucas was asking and why his nickname is Gnome shoot the ball. But yeah, the photos that we have adorning our LED screens in these studios are him in his professional uniform. Overseas.

[B]

We have way too much going on right now. The University of Miami was 7 and 24 last year. They now have set the school record for. They've tied it with for wins in a season. I believe they had never beaten SMU before yesterday. I believe they lost to SMU by 50 points last season.

[D]

They flipped their record from last year. Last year was one of. Hand to God, one of the worst college basketball teams and a major conference I had ever seen in my entire Life.

[B]

Don LeBatard.

[F]

My algorithm on Instagram is Dan. It's all boobs,

[D]

stugats.

[F]

It's a good algorithm. This is the Dan Lebatar show with the stugaats.

[B]

All right, I've got to get to our guests here in a second. But Domino, real quick, you're in the other room, you're wearing a ganter.

[C]

Don't tell them too much.

[B]

Dan, your tight wrestling pants. Just real quick explain to people what it is that we're doing today. As soon as we get past our guests here, then. AGI mi gente.

[F]

Today we are celebrating AGI 305 day cola pila ven puerta.

[B]

Okay, that's about enough of that. No, that's a little.

[C]

See, I told you about reinforcements.

[B]

It's a little aggressive. In the morning, we'll put him to the side. Put him, put him away for a second. Now, Paula Levine and Dana Ruda have done some reporting that not a lot of people are doing anymore these days. On November 7, 2006, we mentioned that Brian Pato was shot in the head outside his apartment complex after coming home from practice. It has been unsolved for 20 years. If you listen to Murder at the U a seven part podcast on the case and an ESPN investigation, you will find a lot of holes in the Miami Police Department's police work. Thank you for joining us, Paula. And Dan, I will start with you. Paula, can you tell us the greatest level of shoddiness that you found in the Miami Police Department when you guys were doing some of this reporting on, on this case?

[E]

Wow, there's, there's such a list. First of all, Dan, thank you so much for, for having us. I appreciate being able to talk about the murder at the U podcast. And I remember talking to you about this story back in 2020. So it's crazy that it's still going on. 1. You know, we found so many things with, with errors with Miami Dade Police. They didn't interview witnesses they should have interviewed. They lost documents, they lost track of people. I think the biggest one was when they were trying to bring their key eyewitness in for testimony. And they said, he's dead, he can't come in, he's dead. ESPN found that he was not dead, which is generally a pretty black and white thing when you're investigating someone. And we went to his house in Louisville, Kentucky and interviewed him and. And he's very much alive. Unfortunately, though, the passage of time has degraded his memory and he wasn't able to come and testify. But that whole process still speaks to just the overall integrity of the investigation and the police work that, you know, that brought this forward and as we'll probably get to, ended in a mistrial.

[B]

Yeah, that mistrial was this week. But, Dan, can you walk us through a little bit of what you made of what happened this week and how heartbroken you were for the Pata family to still not have anything that resembles resolution on this.

[G]

Yeah, Dan, I think the interesting thing about what we saw in the trial is that it laid out almost exactly to what our podcasts showed. It was, you know, we interviewed family, we interviewed friends, we interviewed the police, and it was all the same evidence that the state gave over to the jury. There was really no surprises in this trial, probably because there has been no new evidence gathered since the 2000, 2006, 7, 8 era. So the question lends itself to why was this case taken so long to be brought to trial? As far as the Pata family goes, they were just incredible throughout this ordeal. They came in 18 strong on day one, and those numbers didn't facilitate for the entire trial. They had two rows strong with Pata family members there. Jeannette Pata, Brian's mother, wheeled in a wheelchair every day, every day, showing her support. And it just breaks your heart to know that they're gonna have to do this all over again. They've been waiting so long for justice, and now they're gonna have to put a pause on that yet again.

[B]

Paula, based on your reporting, what does justice look like here? Like what the facts lead you to what here?

[E]

Well, the problem is that the facts aren't very good and they're not entirely complete. And I've been asked that question about what does justice mean? I think one of the things that we really get to in the murder at the podcast, I don't know that anyone at the end of the day really gets the justice that they want. I mean, I think there will always be a question. And I think one thing, you know, I've said this many times, is that one thing that the Miami Dade Police Department and the state attorney's office should offer to the Pata family, regardless of what. What the. What the end game is here, is an apology. An apology for. For what they didn't do for so many years, an apology for this whole process, and just a general apology for the pain and anguish that they've suffered on top of losing their loved one so many years ago.

[B]

Why haven't they. Has that been requested? Are they saying they have nothing to apologize for? Why, Paula, has there not been an apology when there's obviously a need for an apology?

[E]

I don't know. I don't know what the conversations have been recently with the Pata family. I know that what triggered this whole thing, and we were Talking about this the other day, what really kind of prompted ESPN to dig into this was when they initially came to us, the Miami Dade Police Department came to us and wanted to do something on this. One of the things we saw was this press conference that they had done with the family. And in that press conference, Jeanette Pata just goes off script and she calls out the police department for not doing anything on the case. And it was very evident and made us curious from the get go. Why is this family so upset? You know, what has been done to them? Like, why do they feel like that they're being ignored? And I just, you know, I just think at the end of this, you know, whatever they get out of this trial, I just feel like someone needs to say to them, like, look, we dropped the ball. And I don't know if that's happened, but I do think that they're owed that.

[B]

I should tell people that Billy Corbyn will be addressing this in because Miami this week. But when we talk, Dan, about the amount of effort that it requires to report something like this, can you take us both through the amount of manpower or all hours that you guys put into this versus whether or not it was more than the number of hours that you suspect the Miami Police Department was putting into it because you were actually trying to solve it. And the Miami Police Department seemed less interested in doing that until you guys started making it clear that you were trying to solve it.

[G]

It's a fair question, Dan. You know, to date, we've interviewed, well, well over 100 people. We've gathered more than 5,000 documents and pieces of evidence to go along with our reporting. Clearly, the Miami Dade Police were not expecting us to shine a flashlight into their work. But once we saw the deficiencies in that work, we knew that we had to press forward. We needed to. We knew we had to press them for answers. I think we did a pretty good job of giving a better overall picture of the case because again, for 15 years, no one knew exactly what was going on. And we were the ones that finally got to show the public that Reshawn Jones was a primary suspect the entire time, despite them holding that evidence back.

[B]

Paula, can you walk us through how your investigation specifically led to Pata's former teammate, as he mentioned Rashawn Jones, being arrested 15 years after the murder?

[E]

Well, I think one thing that we can say certainly, is that our investigation prompted them to actually look at this case again and bring it forward, and they've even admitted to that. I think one of the bigger Questions is in this whole process, ESPN ended up having to sue the Miami Dade Police Department for access to the records. And the result of that lawsuit essentially put the Miami Dade Police Department on the clock for making an arrest. And we don't know for sure if that's what, what prompted there or not, but it's, it's certainly a coincidence. And you know, we would like to think that there, that when they made this arrest, we'd like to think, oh, maybe there was some new evidence that they found between the time of our lawsuit and then. And it doesn't seem that. It doesn't seem like there was anything new that, that came about it. Just from their explanation, they said, well, just taking the. That better look at it and maybe re interviewing some people, that's what got us here. And I know that was something that we questioned and after this mistrial was something the jurors even questioned as well.

[B]

I am always interested when people get obsessed with solving something like this, because vetting the facts is really hard evidence. This many years after something is really hard for you. Dan, what is the piece of evidence or proof that you feel like you uncovered that made you run to Paula and say, you're not going to believe this.

[G]

That I found, it's, interestingly, a piece of evidence that was never really introduced into trial. Pretty early on in my interviews with Brian's teammates, I spoke to one of his teammates named Chris Sellner, who was adamant that less than an hour before Brian was murdered, he overheard Brian in the locker room in a very heated discussion. And he, he said something to the effect of the person on the other line will come and get it. We thought right away, that's got to be connected to what happened to Brian. But all these years later, we still haven't been able to find

[B]

all of

[G]

the phone records because Brian had two phones at the time. They pulled the records on one. We don't think they pulled the records on the other. So to this day, we don't know whether that phone call actually had anything to do with Brian's murder. It's a mystery that we really want solved.

[B]

Paula, do you have the same answer to that question or is it different?

[E]

No. I mean, absolutely. You know, you asked me earlier about the evidence and the mistakes, and one of the things that keeps coming up is, you know, why didn't the police pull these phone records? I mean, they had the ability to. They had so many people who, you know, said there were conversations and at trial they made it clear to the jury. Yeah, we don't have these. But then there's confusion over, like, why don't you have them, and why aren't you showing them to us?

[B]

And.

[E]

And the problem with phone records is, you know, after a certain period of time, usually like seven years or so, the phone companies, they. They destroy them. And so it's, again, a testament to how the passage of time has eroded the evidence in this case. And, yeah, I would say that. That. That mystery with that particular phone call, my gosh, if we could solve that, I think. I really think that would point to something because it's. It's such a. The timing, the nature of it. You know, if you were the police department, you would think you would certainly want to track that down right away.

[B]

Dan, is all of this still a mystery to you? I know you guys have to be journalists here. You have to aspire to objectivity. You have to base things on the facts. But I'm gonna just ask you directly, what do you think happened here?

[G]

Dan, I wish I could tell you. I've been at this for eight years. I've seen every piece of evidence that the police has allowed us to see. I sat through the trial. I still have no idea whether Rashawn Jones was there, and he pulled that trigger. And that's hard to say that, because you would think after all this evidence, you could find some kind of truth. But I'm not sure at the end of the day, we're ever gonna know the full truth.

[B]

Paula, do you have a way that you lean here, or is that an unfair question to ask you? Like when I just say to you directly, do you think Rashawn Jones did it? If you had to bet and guess and be right, based on all of your research, your thoughts, or what there, are you allowed to answer that question?

[E]

Well, Dan, I think I would echo some of what Dan said, which is there's not enough evidence there to point me in that direction. And one thing that we know and that we put in the murder at the podcast is it's not just the evidence pointing to Rashawn Jones. It's all the other leads that police had. And there are like three or four of them that are legitimate. I mean, they're anything that any investigator would be like, you know, that has legs. And those leads weren't completely exhausted. So you have two things. You have these other possibilities that seem very, very valid and could use further investigation. And then you also have, with the case with Rashaun, you've got some evidence pointing to him, but not anything definitive. So I think, and some of the jurors said this as well, that, you know, they're saying, like, I don't know if Rashaun did it or didn't do it, but I know that either way, the state didn't prove it.

[B]

The YouTubers have begun an investigation, Paula, into your background, and they're saying that it is totally fake. That background that you have there is not in any way real. And they want you to touch it to prove that it is not in any way real. Because they think it's gonna move. They think it's gonna move like water would move if you put your in it.

[E]

Well, that shouldn't be the indicator. The indicator should be that there's no way I have an office. This. My gosh, my real office is like stuff scattered everywhere.

[B]

Thank you guys for the work that you've been doing. Not enough of it is being done. Journalists are being. Having resources taken away from them at all times. So it's nice to see that investigative work is still being done in the name of fairness and justice. Murder at the U is the seven part podcast on the case and ESPN's investigation. Investigation. Thank you, guys. Thank you for being on with us.

[E]

Thank you so much.