Rob Mitchum (4:56)

Yeah, today I picked up a Solom Oath beer. Solom Oath is a brewery in Naperville, Illinois, and I'm drinking their street photographer Pale Alex.

Stephen Hyden (5:08)

Are you really?

Rob Mitchum (5:09)

Yes.

Stephen Hyden (5:11)

See? Okay, I'm totally unprepared for this. I'm drinking coffee and water right now. Well, I don't have any. I don't have anything. Cool.

Rob Mitchum (5:21)

We're going after that. The big coffee and Water Industry Advertisement.

Stephen Hyden (5:29)

This is 36 from the vault. I'm Steven Hyden.

Rob Mitchum (5:34)

I'm Rob Mitchum and this is the.

Stephen Hyden (5:37)

Podcast where we listen to a different Dick's Picks record in every episode. Dick's Picks, of course, being the series of live records that were put up by the Grateful Dead starting in the mid-90s up through the mid-2000s. And today we're going to be doing volume two, which is a show recorded on October 31, 1971 at the Ohio Theater in Columbus, Ohio. And this is going to be an interesting episode because this is by far the shortest album in the Dix Pick series. It's only about 58 minutes long, and I feel like we're going to easily jam longer talking about this record than the record itself, which I think is gonna be pretty incredible.

Rob Mitchum (6:30)

That's right, this is the run to the litter. It's, I believe the only single disc Dix Picks.

Stephen Hyden (6:36)

Yes. And.

Rob Mitchum (6:38)

Yeah, just lean and mean.

Stephen Hyden (6:40)

Severely edited.

Rob Mitchum (6:42)

Well, yeah, it's. You know, at least it's chronological, unlike the last one. Like, he just picked out the second.

Stephen Hyden (6:50)

Set and said, here you go, Sam. So let's talk about the progression of the series a bit now. The. The first Dix Picks volume that came out in 1993. That's right. And then this record. This record came out in 95.

Rob Mitchum (7:52)

Yeah. So almost a year and a half. I think it's December 93 to March 95, when volume two came out.

Stephen Hyden (8:00)

And, like, there was, like, quite a bit of deliberation in that time trying to figure out, like, what this was gonna be. Right. I mean, like, there were several shows in the. Like, in the running for volume two that ended up coming out later in the series. But, I mean, does that account for the delay in releases? Because, like, after this, I feel like they came out at a steadier clip than they did at the beginning.

Rob Mitchum (8:22)

Right? Yeah, I think so. There's. There's two reasons for that. One is named Phil Lesh. We talked about this a little bit last episode. The band had to approve everything that came out or everything that Dick selected for his series. Though, in truth, in practice, it was really only Phil that had any sort of interest in, you know, approving or vetoing Dick's choices. So it seemed like from interviews, if you read interviews with Dick from around that time, Phil basically shot down everything he brought to the table. He wanted to release some pretty famous shows. He wanted to put out, like, the rest of the fillmore show from February 13, 1970, which was released kind of weirdly as Bear's Choice, where they just took, like, acoustic and pig pen songs. But there was a lot of other great stuff. He wanted to release the Harper College show from 1970, which is a pretty famous and very long dead show with acoustic and electric sets. There was, like, a 77 show, a 72 show, like, a whole bunch of things he brought to the table, apparently. And Phil pretty much just said no to all of them.

Stephen Hyden (9:31)

And those first two that you mentioned, the two 1370 and the Harper College show, those did come out eventually as part of the Dick's Pick series. 201370 is volume four. And, like, two 1370. That's, like, one of the most famous Grateful Dead shows ever.

Rob Mitchum (9:48)

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, like, so Dick, early on, a big thing for him was to not necessarily put out the most famous Dead shows, but to put out shows that people maybe hadn't heard and I think the idea. We'll talk about this when we get to volume four, was that people thought they knew what happened on February 13, 1970, but had only gotten this weird sort of half glimpse of it. So he had. He had pushed that one to the front of the line. But. Yeah, well, we'll get into it with today's show. But he wanted to find shows that maybe weren't in circulation or weren't well known among Deadheads and get them out as well. But, yeah, apparently Phil, as we talked about last episode, you know, he cut a base solo out of volume one. He was real persnickety about these things. Very much the micromanager of the Grateful Dead. And it just took a long time for Dick to find one that met his very high approval. Now, pretty soon we'll get to the sort of faster pace of Dick's Pick's releases. And I think the two things that happened there were, one, Phil finally got the message and stopped standing in the way of these things coming out. And two, Jerry Garcia died, and the Grateful Dead suddenly were faced with a less steady flow of income from the Grateful Dead being on the road.

Stephen Hyden (11:06)

I mean, do you know why they ended up agreeing to put out this show? I mean, because again, they'd rejected some very famous, well regarded shows. Like, what was it about this show in particular that made it okay to put it out as Volume two?

Rob Mitchum (11:19)

Yeah, I couldn't find anything about why it sort of passed their high standards. I found, you know, a couple quotes from Dick about why he wanted to put out this show. I think part of it is, like, was an extremely under the radar show that wasn't really floating around. So maybe they just thought, like, this is. This is one that was worthwhile putting out into the community. Whereas the other ones that, you know, the tapes were kind of there if you could, if you wanted to, if you. If you looked out for them hard enough. Whereas this was like a totally sort of unheard gem, according to Dick.

Stephen Hyden (11:54)

And because the idea, again, like, was, you know, like, in. To not maybe put out 2, 1370. The idea was being like, well, if you're already a serious Dead collector, you probably already had that show. But, like, this show you might not have had, or you might not have had, like, at least this part of it. Because, again, they were only going to release, like, the second set of it.

Rob Mitchum (12:16)

Right?

Stephen Hyden (12:16)

I mean. I mean, because. I mean, because I know you dug out some other stuff too about, like. I mean, what was it about this thing? Because obviously, and we're gonna get into this. There's a lot of this show that they didn't put out. And actually, I think it's, like, a really great show overall. But, like, again, like, the entire first set isn't in the Dick's Picks release. And it's like a monster first set. It's like 15 songs, like, I think, are in that first set or. Or thereabouts. Do you know what the thinking was as far as, like, just wanting to put out the second set?

Rob Mitchum (12:48)

Yeah, I don't know. I think. Well, first of all, I think it wasn't that much longer of a first set than a lot of first sets of the era. I think they kind of played the weirder thing from their set, from this set list is how short the second set is. Like, the fact that they were able to fit an entire set on one disc was, I think, kind of unusual for the Dead in the early 70s. The first set, I don't know, I feel like. I definitely feel like Dick, as a Dead fan, was very much like a jam chaser. And I think a lot of the early Dix picks that are abridged kind of show that off where he'll pick a few of the shorter songs. But if he's gonna pick something, it's. It tends to be the really long, deep improvisational excursions. So I think there's a little bit of, like, the first set of this show. Like, it's. It's good. It's just, like, good, like, solid early 70s dead. But there's nothing that really, like, jumps out, especially to somebody like Dick, who would listen to, you know, show after show after show. You know, it's a lot of material that is still in its early days. A lot of songs that had debuted earlier that year or, you know, the year before, and songs that would kind of, you know, reach their full bloom in sort of the Europe 72 time period. And from then on, and, you know, everything's played a little slow and a little ragged. And I think maybe that was one of the things that maybe Phil was resistant to. Whereas the second set is like, some, you know, good. Just one big, you know, solid Grateful Dead suite of music that they had been playing for quite a while and were obviously very good at playing in 1971.

Stephen Hyden (14:35)

Well, and it seems like, too, that this release is set up to spotlight the Dark Star in the second set. You know, like that. Like, the Dark Star is about half of the record, like, by itself. It's like a pretty well regarded Dark Star. And we'll talk about that. More later in the episode. But because, like, when. Because, you know, there's quotes from Dick kind of enthusiastically talking very enthusiastically about this show and, like, how mind blowing it was. And it seems like that's, like, what a lot of the conversation is about. Right? Like the dark star on this record.

Rob Mitchum (15:08)

Yeah, yeah. And I want to read this quote. I wish I had. I have no idea what Dick Lavalla actually sounded like, so I can't even hazard an impression. But this quote is like, so this is the official archivist as a Grateful Dead. And his quote about this show sounds like basically, like, you know, the top comment on an archive.org like, streaming page. He said when he found it, he said, I'm absolutely thrilled. I can't believe that anyone who hears this is not going to go to outer space intensely over and over. This show was like getting hit with a brick in the face. I couldn't believe it. I put it on again and said, man, I must have played it 10 times before I could talk. This is as good as it's ever been. I've never heard anything like it. And I'm shocked. I have to put it myself in a seat belt. I start shaking. It's so exciting. This is a thrill a minute. So he liked. He liked this show.

Stephen Hyden (15:59)

He did. And I think it's fair to say that he might be overselling it slightly with that. Like, I wouldn't. I was definitely able to talk after hearing this show. But there's some fine highlights that we're going to get into later in the show. But let's set the context here a little bit. So the Dead, they play the show. It's Halloween. It's Columbus, Ohio. They're playing at the Ohio Theater. And this was the third show that the Dead ever played in Columbus. They had played there in 68 and in 70. And then after this, they played three more shows in 72, 76, and 78. This is the only show that they ever played at the Ohio Theater. And I was reading about the Ohio Theater. I've never been to Columbus. Have you ever been to Columbus before? I've never been there. It's one of the great colleges.

Rob Mitchum (16:48)

Yeah, a couple times.

Stephen Hyden (16:49)

It's one of the great college towns in America I've seen.

Rob Mitchum (16:54)

So since I went to college in Ann Arbor, I did make it down to Columbus for a couple shows Into Enemy College Sports Turf, and, like, two very different shows that pretty much summarize what I listened to in college. I saw Fish in July of 1999, the show where Trey Announced from the stage they'd be playing New Year's Eve in Florida. Very topical right now on the 20th anniversary. And that was a great show. It'll be beyond the best fish seats I've ever had.

Stephen Hyden (17:26)

We're recording this before the 20th anniversary of big Cypress. By the time this airs, we'll be past it. But yes, Big Cypress is definitely the top of mind as we're recording this right now for fish.

Rob Mitchum (17:39)

Right? And we could put in, like, an extremely tardy plug for fellow Osiris podcast after Midnight, Jesse Jarno's history of the Big Cypress Festival. Yes, odds are everybody listening to this has probably already heard, but hey, hit me. But if you haven't.

Stephen Hyden (17:53)

Yeah, Evergreen Content. Always good to go back and get your history lesson there. So what was the other show that you saw in Columbus?

Rob Mitchum (18:00)

The other show I saw was like, it wasn't a house show, but it was like a rec center. And it was hey Mercedes, the offshoot band from Braid and Rainer Maria.

Stephen Hyden (18:11)

Oh, wow.

Rob Mitchum (18:12)

I don't know if our mutual friend Ian Cohen will ever listen to this podcast. I'm guessing not.

Stephen Hyden (18:17)

No way. Not a chance in hell.

Rob Mitchum (18:19)

If he does, he would be nodding approvingly at my emo cred of going to Columbus to see to the greats. To the late 90s emo greats.

Stephen Hyden (18:30)

So the Ohio Theater, it sounds like a really cool venue. It was. It was built in 1928. It was a movie theater. And, you know, I've seen pictures of it. It looks like a very grand old theater. By the late 60s, it was earmarked for demolition, but fortunately someone stepped in to renovate it and it became a rock venue after that. And in the early 70s, along with booking the Grateful Dead, Frank Zappa played there, Alice Cooper played there. Over time, it's become more of a performing arts center. I looked at some of the recent performers that have been there, including the Goo Goo Dolls are the most recent rock band to play the Ohio Theater. Dweezel Zappa is playing there in the spring of 2020. Also, Newt Gingrich was recently there, so I'm sure he rocked the Ohio Theater.

Rob Mitchum (19:24)

Ging.

Stephen Hyden (19:25)

Yeah, I love that the Dead and Gingrich both played this venue. I think that's really great. So they play this show. It was their 10th show with Keith Godschow coming in. His first show with the Dead was earlier this month on October 19th, and Pigpen was still in the picture, but he was not well at this time, and he wasn't playing on this tour. I think he was Sick, right?

Rob Mitchum (19:55)

Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (19:56)

I don't know.

Rob Mitchum (19:56)

It was like right before they were gonna leave on this tour that he started. His liver problems started. And kind of last minute they had to like, swap him out and call up Keith, who like, sort of seemed like he was just like, right place, right time to join the Dead. Like, it's. It's sort of hazy on the details, like how he was the guy they went to because they were, you know, of course, playing with a lot of keyboardists at the time. And this guy, you know, he wasn't really a big name or anything, and they just kind of pulled him out. They stuck him in rehearsals in like late September, I think, and then he was on the road like two days later. Just Keith, though. No Donna. No Donna yet.

Stephen Hyden (20:38)

Well, I was gonna say, like, you know, Donna didn't actually debut with the Dead until later on in 71. The New Year's Eve show was her first show with the Dead. But again, we talked about this in our previous episode, talking about volume one, the show from 73. That would have been a time where Donna normally would have been with the band, but she was out for a period when that show was taken from. It's interesting, the second show in a row where Donna does not show up. And I feel like that's probably not a coincidence on Dick's part.

Rob Mitchum (21:12)

Once again, the anti Donna bias comes out. Release the Donna show, you cowards.

Stephen Hyden (21:17)

But it's interesting.

Rob Mitchum (21:18)

Yeah, I mean, it's weird. It's a really weird lineup because, like, not only is Keith like brand new, but particularly on the Dixbyx mix, he is barely audible.

Stephen Hyden (21:31)

Yeah.

Rob Mitchum (21:31)

I mean, it took me like, I had to do like a very loud, unhealthily loud headphones listen to even notice like that he was playing in this set. If you listen to the tape of the first set that you can find on Relisten or on Archive or your streaming platform of choice, he's actually very loud at the start. There's even somebody in the art in the comments I saw that said like, thank God they turned Keith down because he was like dominating the mix. But yeah, I think there are songs where I think it's partially like the sound crew keeping them very low in the mix intentionally. And remember, these Dix Picks recordings are like the two track right off the board. So you couldn't mix them higher if you wanted to. You kind of just have to go with like what the sound guy on that particular date was doing. But he kind of like, even when you can hear him on the first set songs. I feel like he just kind of sits some songs out. Like, which makes sense if he was just thrown on tour last minute. Like, maybe he didn't get to learn the entire Dead catalog yet. So he's just like, either barely playing or just like, I'm going to. I'm going to wait for the next song. And so what you get is an extremely rare case of four piece Grateful Dead. Like there's basically no other time in their history that you can hear them as a four piece.

Stephen Hyden (22:51)

Well, yeah, because again, like Mickey left the band earlier that year, so like they were sort of relatively new as like a one drummer band at this point in 71. Yeah, yeah. It's hilarious to me that someone would comment that Keith is too loud, like, that he's too high in the mix, because that would be an exceedingly rare complaint to make about like a Grateful Dead live recording. I'm always of the opinion that, like, I always wish Keith was louder. Like, I wish I. I always wish the piano was more prominent on Dead live recordings because, I mean, Keith's a great player and especially like in the early 70s before sort of like his drug addiction really set in and kind of like numbed his playing. Like he was doing a lot of great things, but he's never very prominent in the mix. And I don't know if it's just because people love Jerry so much that they didn't want Jerry to be upstaged by the piano player, but like, it's like, man, I wish there was more piano. Maybe that's like me as a Fish fan coming into the Dead. And piano is obviously very prominent in Phish, and I always wish it was more prominent in the Dead. But yeah, you cannot hear him really at all. You can hear, as you said, you can hear him more in the first set. I feel like you can kind of hear. Hear him like during the, like not fade away going down the road feeling bad part a little more. But like during the Dark Star, he's non existent. I. I don't know if he played on that. It just wasn't turned up.

Rob Mitchum (24:18)

I made a note earlier today. I finally heard him. I made a note of it. It was so remarkable that I was like, oh, hey, there is a piano in there. Because up until that point I thought he, he was just like sitting on the wings of the stage watching them take a. Take a dark star way out. Which, I mean, can you blame them? Like, they've been playing half hour Dark, you know, several years at this point. And you're just gonna walk up there and jam along with the Dead on their trademark song. But, yeah, I mean, he's. I think a lot of the times why he's inaudible, too, is that he kind of doubles what Bob does, right? So I noticed that in, like, not Fade Away and stuff, where there's a couple times where they're clearly just playing, like, the same sort of rhythm pattern. And. Yeah, you know, who can blame him? He's only been in the Dead for three weeks at this point, and, you know, he's doing the best he can.

Stephen Hyden (25:10)

I love Keith, and Keith, you know, not the most aggressive guy. Seems like a pretty chill dude. So he's definitely gonna go with the flow if. If the sound guy's gonna turn him down, he's not gonna complain about it too much.

Rob Mitchum (25:22)

Exactly.

Stephen Hyden (25:23)

The other big Grateful Dead news From October of 71 is that the Skull and Roses record came out that month, and it came out just the week before this show. So a lot of the songs from that record showed up in this set. Especially in the first set. They played a lot from this record, and I love this record. I'm a big fan of this album. This is actually an album that I recommend to people when they want to get into the Grateful Dead and they're looking for an entry point. You know, a lot of people will talk about American Beauty or Working Man's Dead, but, like, those albums, to me, in a way, are anomalies in terms of, like, the overall career of the Grateful Dead doesn't really sound like their live stuff. The Skull and Roses record, of course, was recorded live and then obviously overdubbed on the actual record. But it does give you more of, like, a real flavor of, like, what this band is like. And there's incredible songs on this record, including Bertha playing in the band. Me and my uncle's on this record. Warfrath is on this. Warfrat is on this record. So I'm a big fan of this album. I feel like it's, like, a little underrated in the overall sort of.

Rob Mitchum (26:38)

It's a weirdo. Yeah. Because, like, you know, so it comes, what, two years after Live Dead and obviously the year before Europe 72, which.

Stephen Hyden (26:47)

Are both, like, sort of like the big officially released or, like, the, you know, record company released live records by the Dead. Like, those two are the big ones.

Rob Mitchum (26:55)

Those are, like, the biggest. The big tent poles. And I could listen to those albums, like, every day for the rest of my life. And Skull N Roses is one that I, like, rarely reach For. And I don't know why, because I listened to it again today, and I'm like, you know, a lot of these songs that I sort of associate with being sort of Europe 72 debuts. Like, I always joke that Europe 72 is my favorite Dead studio album because, one, it has so many overdubs, and, two, it had so many songs that just hadn't really shown up before. They just decided to put them out as live versions first. But, yeah, some of them are actually. I was mistaken. Go back to Skull and Roses like Bertha or Playing in the Band or things like that. So, yeah, it's got a nice mix. And, like, the overdubs are, like, so egregious that they're kind of, like, hilarious. Like, the Warfrat is, like, you know, the least live recording. It's got, like, double tracked Jerry. And there's a piano, like, all over it. At a time when they didn't even have a piano player in the band.

Stephen Hyden (27:53)

Well, I think, like. I think the difference between, like, this record and, like, Europe 72 and live dead is that, like, I think of those other two albums as being presented as, like, a representation of a Grateful Dead concert, where I almost feel like Skull and Roses. It kind of reminds me of that Jackson Brown record Running on Empty, where they were all original songs that he recorded, like, live. But it's not presented as a live record. It's presented as a record record. It's just that you happen to have recorded it live or, like, REM did that on New Adventures in hi Fi, where. And I feel like Skull and Roses is the same where, you know, they recorded these songs live, and a lot of them were recorded earlier in 71 during their Fillmore east run in April. That's, like, where a majority of those tracks come from. I don't feel like they're really trying to represent it as, like, a Grateful Dead concert. I think they're trying to present it as, like, a collection of songs that they happen to have recorded live because that's the best way for the Dead to get, like, the best versions of their songs. So I. I appreciate it for that more than.

Rob Mitchum (29:03)

Yeah. So it's the Dead's Time fades away. That's a good way to make me.

Stephen Hyden (29:07)

Yeah, exactly. Whereas. Whereas I feel like. Because, like, Europe 72 is obviously very overdub, too, but I feel like when you listen to that, it's presented as, like, a live record, like, where you're supposed to sort of digest it as, like, a representation of, like, a Grateful Dead concert.

Rob Mitchum (29:23)

Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (29:24)

I don't get that as much from. From Skull and Roses. And again, just, like, the songs that are on that record, I think are. Are great. And I wish the Dead had done that more, actually, where they didn't go into a studio. Especially, like, later on in the 70s, like, when they were making, like, Shakedown street, like these. Some of these studio records, like, where they're just making totally bizarre decisions in the studio to make their songs sound, like, way worse than they should, you know, because they obviously don't. They don't really know how to use a studio very well. It's like, no, just record it live and make that your album. You know, like, that. That's the best way for you guys to work. And I feel like they did that on Skull and Roses, so I really appreciate it for that reason. Yeah. So that record comes out, obviously, a big Grateful Dead release. Another thing I want to talk about in terms of the context of this concert that I think is important, even though it's sort of tangentially related to the Grateful Dead, is that Duane Allman died two days before this show. This show took place again. It was Halloween 71. It was a Sunday, and Duane Allman died on the 29th, which was a Friday. So this is, like, part of the same weekend. And there's a couple things that are interesting about that to me. First of all, Duane Allman, of course, played with the Grateful Dead. He played with them earlier this year. I think he played with them during that Filmer east run in April of 71 that ended up being part of Skull and Roses. I think he played with them in 72. Like, him and Greg Ullman. Like, they played together a couple times. And then Duane Allman's last show. I think I looked this up earlier today. I think it was October 17, 1971. So it was, like, 12 days before he died. And, of course, for those who don't know, Duane Allman died in a motorcycle crash. And then another member of the Allman Brothers Band, Barry Oakley, died in another motorcycle crash almost exactly a year later, within a couple of blocks of, like, the same place where Duane Allman died. So definitely the freakiest rock deaths or among the freakiest in music history. You know, I don't know if things were different back then. It's a little weird to me that, like, the Dead didn't, like, give a shout out to Duane Allman at these shows, you know, like. Or tip a cap in some way. It's like, hey, we're playing this play, Wharf Rat and Dedicated to Dwayne Allman or something.

Rob Mitchum (32:01)

Yeah, they didn't really have their like, like standard, like, tribute to somebody who died songs yet, which they eventually had. I mean, he's Gone is the one that they usually go to. And like, because it was written about Pigpen, essentially, even though it was. It debuted before Pig Pen died, they.

Stephen Hyden (32:20)

Could have put like, Broke down palace or something and dedicated it, you know, they had a lot of songs about death, though, already, you know, that could have been easily put in. But maybe that wasn't something he did back then, you know, I don't know. Maybe that was.

Rob Mitchum (32:32)

Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (32:32)

Considered bad form. I mean, because I assume that they heard about it. It's not like new. It's.

Rob Mitchum (32:36)

Right.

Stephen Hyden (32:37)

It's not that news traveled that slow back then. So, yeah, I'd imagine that would have affected them in some way. But it's interesting to. To. To imagine that that is in their minds as they're on this tour. You know that.

Rob Mitchum (32:52)

Sure.

Stephen Hyden (32:54)

And Duane Allman, of course, is only 24 when he died, and great loss to music at the time. So the next time you listen to this record, just imagine that, like, the Grateful Dead just don't give a shit that Duane Allman died and they're still playing the show.

Rob Mitchum (33:12)

Well, there are those. Maybe they didn't care.

Stephen Hyden (33:14)

They didn't care.

Rob Mitchum (33:15)

Yeah, they were cold. Yeah. Grumpy Phil. Hey, man, we didn't even talk about Phil in the first set. Like, lecturing the crowd not to jump on the seats at the Ohio Theater. And then.

Stephen Hyden (33:28)

Let's wait on that. That's good stuff. Let's wait on that. Because, yeah, Phil. Phil is the. Phil is the cop of the Grateful Dead. You know, I just think of like, he's the dad.

Rob Mitchum (33:38)

Stepdad.

Stephen Hyden (33:39)

Yeah, he's the step.

Rob Mitchum (33:52)

Sam.

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Stephen Hyden (35:56)

Before we get to that, though, we should do some more scene setting here, you know, for October of 71, like when they're playing this show. So Duane Allman has just died. You know, one of rock's great tragedies, certainly, like in the jam world, you know, one of the great, you know, huge paradigm shifting events has just happened. The number one song in the country the week of the show was Maggie Mae by Rod Stewart. Now, we've never talked about Rod Stewart. Like, what are your feelings about Rod Stewart? Are you pro or anti Rod?

Rob Mitchum (36:34)

I despise Rod Stewart. He's one of these people that I just have never.

Stephen Hyden (36:41)

You despise Rod Stewart's appreciation for. Are you serious?

Rob Mitchum (36:44)

Yeah. His voice is proverbial nails on a chalkboard for me.

Stephen Hyden (36:49)

Holy shit. Like, I. At first I thought you were joking when you said you despised him, but like, so just his voice or.

Rob Mitchum (36:58)

Yeah, it's. I mean, so we're both of an age. It's came up with, I think, the. What, the 80s? Rod Stewart forever young, Rod Stewart dating supermodels. Rod Stewart.

Stephen Hyden (37:10)

Right, right.

Rob Mitchum (37:11)

And it's the kind of thing that I've. Like, one, I've never been able to get over that. And two, I haven't really tried very hard because I find his voice just so, like off putting. I've tried and I know which Faces album is it that came out that year?

Stephen Hyden (37:25)

Well, okay, here's the thing.

Rob Mitchum (37:27)

Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (37:27)

1971. Okay? I want you to get over this Rod Stewart thing. And I think 1971, Rod Stewart is like a good.

Rob Mitchum (37:37)

Sell me on it, sell me, okay?

Stephen Hyden (37:39)

Because it's like one of the greatest years I think anyone's ever had in like rock and roll. Like, he had an incredible year, you know, In February of 71, the faces put out this record called Long Player, which is a great record. There's a song on there called Bad and Roon, which is like one of the great Faces songs. Used very memorably in an episode of the Sopran. It scores like a hit carried out by Tony Blandetto, played By Steve Buscemi. I think it's like in season five or six. There's also a great cover of maybe I'm Amazed on that record. The Paul McCartney song.

Rob Mitchum (38:15)

Yeah. I'm imagining that and hating it.

Stephen Hyden (38:19)

Oh, my God. So great. So then, In May of 71, Rod Stewart puts out a solo record called Every Picture Tells a Story, which is like an amazing solo record.

Rob Mitchum (38:31)

That one. Great cover. Great. I love that art. Great album, Rod Stewart. Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (38:37)

It has Maggie May on it. Has Reason to Believe, the Tim Harden song, which is the B side of Maggie Mae. It has Mandolin Wynn. It has the title track, Every Picture Tells a Story. Great record. Then later on in 71, the faces put out a second record called A Nod Is As Good of a Wink. No, wait, A Nod is As Good as A Wink to a Blind Horse is the name of the record.

Rob Mitchum (39:03)

I have that one.

Stephen Hyden (39:04)

That is.

Rob Mitchum (39:04)

I have it on my shelf.

Stephen Hyden (39:06)

That is the greatest faceless record. Just an amazing rock and roll record. So that's three just masterpieces released in 71 by Rod Stewart. So I implore you and anyone else that's agnostic or hostile to Rod Stewart, check out those three albums, Rod.

Rob Mitchum (39:26)

But Steve, his voice. Tell me on his voice. Tell me, why should I like his voice?

Stephen Hyden (39:34)

Well, see, this is. I mean, I can't really tell you. I mean, do you like Sam Cooke? Because I feel like Rod Stewart is like the rock and roll Sam Cook. It's like he has this sort of raspy thing going on. That kind of soulful thing. I mean, I think he sounds a lot like Sam Cooke. And of course, Rod cover Twisted the Night Away, which is a Sam Cooke song. I think that was on Never a Dull Moment, which is the record after Every Picture Tells a Story. I mean, really, like the first, like, four or five Rod Stewart solo records are amazing records. Like folk rock, sloppy drums, like, just incredible. Like, hoist your pints of beer type rock and roll music. They're so good. And like all the Faces stuff is so good. So Rod Stewart, again, a big star of 71. He's like one of the biggest rock stars in the world at the time of this Grateful Dead show. The number one album in the country imagined by John Lennon was the number one record. Very good John Lennon record. I think it's his second best solo record. I don't know how big you are on John Lennon solo records.

Rob Mitchum (40:46)

Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (40:47)

Plastic. Plastic Ono Band, I think, is like, his best solo record.

Rob Mitchum (40:51)

Yeah, that's the one I go to. I'm surprised it was only number One for one week. Imagine.

Stephen Hyden (40:57)

Well, and it had just displaced Every Picture Tells a Story by Rod Stewart. That's right. And that's how huge this dude was. In the fall of 71, did you notice that, like, one of your favorite albums of all time was number one, like, a couple months before this, The Jesus Christ Superstar.

Rob Mitchum (41:17)

Thank you for pointing that out. It hit the top of the charts twice.

Stephen Hyden (41:22)

Yes.

Rob Mitchum (41:23)

Once in February and for two weeks in May, bookending Janis Joplin's run at the top of the charts. Did Janis Joplin die that year, too? Is that why that was such a big hit?

Stephen Hyden (41:32)

I think she did, yeah. I think she died, I think. Well, her. Yeah. Pearl was her number one record in 71.

Rob Mitchum (41:39)

Pearl was posthumous.

Stephen Hyden (41:40)

That was her last record. But, yeah, yeah, JCS displaced Pearl, and then JCS was displaced by Four Way street, the live record by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, which is like, a pretty good record. I'm not like. Yeah, it's all right. I love that box set that they put out, like, four or five years ago from the Doom Tour.

Rob Mitchum (42:04)

That's from the Doom tour, though. Yeah. Four way street is earlier.

Stephen Hyden (42:08)

A little earlier. 71, but. And then, you know, you have Sticky Fingers was number one record that year. Tapestry was number one record by Carole King. And the soundtrack to Shaft was number one going into November. And then There's A Riot Going on was also number one record that year by Slyin the Family Stone. So all classics.

Rob Mitchum (42:32)

Good year.

Stephen Hyden (42:33)

Yeah.

Rob Mitchum (42:33)

Really.

Stephen Hyden (42:34)

I mean, 71 is like one of the greatest rock years or pop music years of the modern era, I would say. So. The number one film the week of this Grateful Dead show was the French Connection with Gene Hackman, directed by William Friedkin. And I love that. I love the French Connection. Great, great movie.

Rob Mitchum (42:55)

That's a good one.

Stephen Hyden (42:56)

And the Last Picture Show, Peter Bogdanovich was released earlier this month. Another, I think, just American masterpiece. Incredible movie. Have you seen the Last Picture Show?

Rob Mitchum (43:06)

I. I still haven't seen it. I've been wanting to.

Stephen Hyden (43:09)

Oh, man.

Rob Mitchum (43:10)

It's up there on my list.

Stephen Hyden (43:12)

Yeah. Everyone, okay, go listen to some Rod Stewart and then go watch the Last Picture Show. And then, like, the following week after this show, Fiddler on the Roof came out, the famous musical Norman Jewison and Play Misty for me, the first directorial effort from Clint Eastwood.

Rob Mitchum (43:34)

Clint Eastwood already directed movies in 1971.

Stephen Hyden (43:38)

Yeah, man. And starring Jessica Walter from Arrested Development. She plays sort of like a sexy, crazy woman in that movie. And that's. That. That's a great movie. And the Number one TV show, of course, was all in the Family.

Rob Mitchum (43:52)

Didn't I tell you last episode?

Stephen Hyden (43:55)

Yes, all in the Family. Yeah. I'm hoping that sometime we'll get a MASH in here. I feel like for the 70s, MASH will be number one at some point. Maybe once we get into, like, 76, 77, maybe MASH will sneak in there or else.

Rob Mitchum (44:12)

Did our Dead play a show the night of the final MASH episode that, like, nobody showed up to because everybody in the world was watching mash?

Stephen Hyden (44:19)

That's a good question. I mean, it does kind of blow your mind to think, like, you know, because, like, back then, like, an average audience for, like, all in the Family was probably, like, 40 million people would, like, watch one episode.

Rob Mitchum (44:30)

Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (44:31)

And yet. And yet, you know, the Dead could still play a show. They could still attract enough people that would tear their faces away from the TV to watch Archie Bunker drop racial slurs in front of millions of people to go see the Dead.

Rob Mitchum (44:47)

Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (44:48)

All right, so let's get into this show. So we've already talked about the fact that this show is heavily edited in terms of the set list, you know, and, you know, it's really just the second set with no encore. The encore is cut off. So we're talking about. I think it's six songs over the course of 58 minutes.

Rob Mitchum (45:13)

And one of them splayed twice.

Stephen Hyden (45:14)

Yeah, one of them is. Yeah, exactly. I mean, really, it's about four, if you really want to think about, like, Not Fade Away. Not Fade Away with going down the road feeling bad in the middle, and then you have Not Fade Away again on the other side of it. You know, I listened to the entire show on Relisten, and it's interesting listening to that first set because, as you said before, it's not on paper anything that's radically different from what you would expect from sort of a typical early 70s Grateful Dead show. And yet I found myself really enjoying the first set. And I think it has to do with the fact that while the songs that they played in that set ended up becoming standards for the Dead, it was still early enough where they hadn't played those songs to death quite yet. And while they weren't doing anything radically different with them, there is a certain energy that comes from those songs being relatively fresh that I think made them feel more lively to me. So I actually really liked the first set. And again, I guess, in terms of, like, you know, length, it's not very long, but there's a lot of songs in that set. I Mean, it's a very, very song heavy set.

Rob Mitchum (46:32)

A lot of them are played very short, like.

Stephen Hyden (46:35)

Right.

Rob Mitchum (46:35)

I was laughing at the fact that, like, playing in the band is shorter than Loser, for instance, like. Yeah, they're both. They're both, you know, seven minutes tops. Like.

Stephen Hyden (46:44)

Well, yeah, because like playing in a band was like on, you know, they played that on volume one, Dick's Picks, and that version is like what, like 20 minutes long? You know, that's like when they were starting to get really sort of noodley with that. Whereas, yeah, again, like in this show, yeah, it's about four and a half minutes, five minutes long. It's like much tighter.

Rob Mitchum (47:04)

Yeah. The other thing is, I don't know about you, but like, I definitely, you know, not just with the Dead, but with Fish and other jam bands as well, like, kind of appreciate a songy first set sometimes as like just sort of like an on ramp to like the bigger, like deeper jams that come in the second set typically.

Stephen Hyden (47:24)

Right.

Rob Mitchum (47:24)

And so, like, it is a little bit strange to just kind of like drop right into a 23 minute dark star without, you know, having some Bobby Cowboy songs warming you up in the first set, you know?

Stephen Hyden (47:37)

Right. Yeah, exactly. I mean, and. And we'll get into this when we talk about the album. I think there, there's. If you're gonna talk about the wisdom of doing like a tight one disc, Dick's Picks, I guess it would be that it's a good introduction for people that aren't familiar with the Grateful Dead, that, you know, you maybe can't expect them to sit through like a three hour two disc show, but like a one disc show that still manages to have like some jamming on it. It does give you a taste of like, what this band is like without going into overkill, you know, that would be the pro argument for doing that. I don't totally buy that argument, but.

Rob Mitchum (48:22)

Like, well, and also, we're still at a time where the Dick's Pick shows where I think mail order only, like, they were very much not. Here's a single disc introduction to the Dead for people who haven't heard the Dead before. They were like, for fans, by fans, like, you know, there was, you know, no. No rookies. No rookies allowed. And I think that's kind of why, you know, they went with just like the meat of this show is like, I'm sure from the moment they started doing Dick's Picks, people were. I don't know how they would contact the Grateful Dead offices in the mid-90s, like letters, postcards, calling them up. But they were demanding every Dark Star be released from the first one to the last. So people just wanted to get straight to the Dark Star, I'm sure. And that's what they gave them here.

Stephen Hyden (49:16)

So in the first set, we have Bertha, Me and my Uncle Deal playing in the band. And again, like, three out of those first four songs are all from the Skull and Roses record. So it makes sense why they'd be playing those loser. El Paso. Tennessee Jed. What's your stance on Tennessee Jed, by the way? Do you like that song? That's always like the song that's like a skippable song almost for me, at this point. I'm not super excited.

Rob Mitchum (49:42)

Your Bathroom Break choice.

Stephen Hyden (49:45)

Well, maybe.

Rob Mitchum (49:45)

I mean, I don't go out of bounds a little.

Stephen Hyden (49:47)

I don't dislike it. I mean, I. I mean, like, when we start getting to like, 80s dead shows, I feel like they'd play Tennessee Jed like, every show and it was always like eight or nine minutes long. And it just felt like kind of interminable, actually.

Rob Mitchum (50:00)

Yeah, yeah.

Stephen Hyden (50:01)

Like in this show, it actually, again, because it wasn't. It was still a relatively new song, it has a little bit more energy to it. So I. I enjoyed it more in this set than I did. Than I do maybe in a lot of other Dead shows. Jack Straw comes after that. Jack Straw is like the opposite end of the spectrum for me. That's probably my favorite Bob song, like, of all time. Yeah. How do you feel about Jack Straw? Are you pro. I love it. Yeah, that's.

Rob Mitchum (50:29)

Yeah. No, it's great. And I like these early versions too, before they, like, figured it out and were trading verses and things like.

Stephen Hyden (50:35)

Right.

Rob Mitchum (50:35)

It's. It's a cool song to hear sort of take shape live.

Stephen Hyden (50:40)

I know, like, when Robert Hunter died, the Jack Straw lyric was one of the lyrics that came to mind as just being like a great example of Robert Hunter storytelling.

Rob Mitchum (50:50)

Yeah, exactly.

Stephen Hyden (50:51)

Because that song just unfolds like a movie to me. You know, just. It's like a Sam Peckinpah Western that unfolds in the course of. Over the course of four minutes. Yeah. Big Railroad Blues, another Skull and Roses song, Bright Night Women, Mexicali Blues, which was a song that ended up on we solo record Ace, which came out the year after this show in 72. Casey Jones Cumberland Blues, One More Saturday Night. Like a pretty, like, Bob heavy set. The first set.

Rob Mitchum (51:21)

It is. Yeah. And a lot of. A lot of blues. A lot of songs that end in blues that's true.

Stephen Hyden (51:28)

A lot of blues. But I, you know, I think spotlighting Bob at his best, I mean, like, playing in the band, like, a pretty compact version of that Again, Jack Straw, you know, great Bob Weir song. And then Mexicali Blues, a song I always like One More Saturday Night. I'm, you know, I don't mind that song. I'm never, like, excited to hear One More Saturday Night. But I don't. I don't. I don't dislike it. It's kind of weird that that would come at the end of the first set. That always seems like, yeah, end of the night type song.

Rob Mitchum (51:59)

And speaking of snarky stepdad Phil, did you catch his banter before that as well? I wrote this one down because I thought it was so funny.

Stephen Hyden (52:08)

Oh, that's right.

Rob Mitchum (52:09)

He sounds incredibly sarcastic. And he says, this here's a new one designed to rock you all the way out to the parking lot. Which is funny because it's the end of the first set. It's not, as you say, it's not the end of the show.

Stephen Hyden (52:21)

Right.

Rob Mitchum (52:22)

So, I mean, maybe they had a liberal in out policy at the Ohio Theater, so everybody could go out and smoke during set break. In fact, that's probably what they did back then. But I still thought it was amusing that Phil. It sounded like Phil was telling everybody to leave, like, halfway through the show.

Stephen Hyden (52:39)

Well, and we alluded to this earlier, but there's this part at the end of me and my uncle, like, where Phil starts chastising people for jumping on the seats at the Ohio Theater. And, like, he's saying, like, you know, this is a nice theater. And again, as we said, the theater was 40 years old at this point, so it was already, like, a pretty old venue. And he's telling people not to jump on their seats. And I'm just thinking, like, this is a Halloween show. Like, this audience is probably pretty rambunctious anyway. And then at Halloween, you know, they're probably extra rambunctious. So, you know, Phil's telling him not to jump on the seats. And then Jerry comes in and, like, kind of makes fun of Phil for doing this. And it just made me think of that part from Long Strange Trip where they talk about how in the 80s, you know, like, when the. When the parking lot scene got out of control at Grateful Dead shows. And, like, they were telling people, like, if you don't have a ticket, don't come to the show. And, like, they couldn't get Jerry to do a recording of that. So, like, Phil did it. And I was like, of course Phil did it. You know Phil, he's the cop of the Grateful Dead. Although in a way, I kind of sympathize with Phil. It's like, Phil, he's like, the guy like. Like, if you and your buddies, like, you rent, like, an Airbnb for the weekend, you're gonna have a party. And it's like, Phil's the guy who actually, like, set up the booking, and it's in his name, and he has to, like, worry about people trashing the apartment. So he's like, hey, guys, guys, okay. Don't spill beer on the couch. You know?

Rob Mitchum (54:16)

Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (54:17)

Don't eat.

Rob Mitchum (54:17)

The responsible one.

Stephen Hyden (54:19)

Yeah. Don't leave your cigarette butts on the patio. You know? And, like, everyone's like, oh, God, okay, this guy, he's a buzzkill. But it's like, if not for this guy, you wouldn't have. You wouldn't have even booked this place. So he has to be the responsible one. So as annoying as Phil is a little bit in the first set, you always feel like, okay, he just wants to make sure that they can continue to tour and make a living. So he wants the crowd to behave themselves.

Rob Mitchum (54:44)

Somebody's got to be the adult in the room, right? Unfortunately, it fell to old Phil. You know, I should add, I absolutely love Phil.

Stephen Hyden (54:54)

I do, too.

Rob Mitchum (54:55)

Have seen him a lot now. Love him back then. Love him now. I love that he's the only one with the integrity not to play with John Mayer.

Stephen Hyden (55:04)

The first pause for laughter. Is that your first shot at mayor in this show? I think that might be the first official shot at mayor.

Rob Mitchum (55:16)

Is that the. From the vault drinking game?

Stephen Hyden (55:19)

I think so. I think so. Take a shot up there, everybody. The first of many shots, I'm sure, at John Mayer on this podcast, but. Right. I mean, do you think that's it? Do you think he doesn't want to play with John Mayer, or do you think there's just some other. I mean, because Phil.

Rob Mitchum (55:39)

Honestly, I think. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, it's. It's probably hell, and, you know, a little bit of just not wanting to be on the road all the time. He pretty much plays where he wants to play, and he hangs out at his restaurant, which I've been to. It's beautiful. I love it. It was great. I saw Phil read, like, children's books to, like, kids, including my son. It was an amazing experience, you know, Thanks a lot, Phil. But, yeah, he just likes to play there, and he likes to play in New York. And every so often he plays like some jam band festival and I don't know what he does the rest of the time, but he's. He's clearly pretty content.

Stephen Hyden (56:15)

Did you read that book about the Fare Thee well tour? And like, just like the post Jerry Garcia years. I can't remember the name. There was a book that, that came out, I think it was called Far Thee well that talked about just sort of like the Post Garcia years and.

Rob Mitchum (56:32)

Like the Further festival and. Yeah, and like, and that stuff.

Stephen Hyden (56:38)

I should reread this and I'll bring it up in future episodes. This is a pretty interesting book. I mean, I get the feeling that Phil is a bit of a fly in the ointment or he has been in the past with Grateful Dead business dealings related to this Dix Picks thing about how Phil was sort of the difficult one. I feel like he's been difficult in other business propositions that they've been doing. I wonder if Phil had. Let's say Phil woke up tomorrow and he's like, I want to join Dead and Company. Like would they let him do it? Or like would they have a choice? I wonder if they would want. If the other guys would want him involved. Because it just seems like it's probably easier not to have him involved. Even though in a way maybe it would help the box office. Although they're already playing stadiums. So I mean they've proven that they don't need Phil to sell tickets. I don't know. Like, my sense is that things are probably a lot smoother not having him on board, even if it maybe isn't as authentic of a band. Not having him in the band.

Rob Mitchum (57:43)

Yeah, I mean, I can't keep track of like who is mad at who anymore in Dead world. I've given up. It's like, it's like the whole CSNY thing again with everybody who's not talking to who at any one moment. And you know what 30 year old arguments are like keeping these people apart. I did see Bob and I saw the Bob and Phil tour a couple years ago when they were. When they played a short run of shows and they seemed to get along like just the minimum amount to actually pull off like a pretty good concert. But you know, whatever the. Like. Yeah, you're right. I think both sides of the equation are pretty happy with what they're doing. And you know, the. The Grateful Dead cash cow never stops paying out, so why shouldn't they? What is a city without its music?

Stephen Hyden (59:13)

The legacy of the New York Philharmonic is incredible.

Rob Mitchum (59:15)

Nearly two Centuries of history. That's a lot of music and a of lot, lot of stories.

Stephen Hyden (59:21)

I was sitting on stage for the very first time thinking, I can't quite.

Rob Mitchum (59:25)

Believe this is happening. Join me, Jamie Bernstein, as we explore the history of the New York Philharmonic. It's the NY Phil Story, Made in New York, a podcast about a city, its people, and their orchestra. Listen wherever you get podcasts.

Stephen Hyden (59:55)

Hey, everyone, Just taking a quick break from this episode of 36 from the Vault, where we're celebrating the music of the Grateful Dead. To tell you about another group of people who are celebrating the music of the Grateful Dead, and that is the Skull and Roses Festival that's taking place in Ventura county in California from April 2nd to the 5th. And it's basically just a bunch of musicians and bands playing Grateful Dead music. We talk about Grateful Dead music here on the podcast, but there's nothing better than actually being in a field or desert or wherever you may be in listening to this music. And there's some really cool groups playing there this year. You got Billy and the Kids. You have, ooh, OTL and friends. I'd actually like to see see that ot of course, he's the bass player for Dead and Company. Played in the Allman Brothers for a long time. Hell of a musician. That'd be great to see. So go see the Skull and Roses Festival that's again April 2nd to the 5th in Ventura County, California. So, yeah, so be sure to check that out. Sounds like a great time. Okay, now back to 36 from the vault. So let's get to the actual Dix picks here. As we said, it starts off with the second set and with a 23 minute version of Dark Star, which, you know, by Dark Star standards isn't excessively long. You know, it's like about typical. I mean, there's definitely longer Dark Stars than this, but I think the way it's positioned on the record, I think it's intended to be the star, you know, no pun intended, of this release. And, you know, it's a parlor game with Grateful Dead fans that talk about, like, what their favorite dark star is of all time. I mean, this isn't my favorite Dark Star, but I think it's a really good Dark Star. And it's interesting digging into sort of the lineage of this particular version because fans have linked it to other versions of Dark Star as well as other jams that have occurred in the song Dancing in the Streets that have occurred from 69 to 71. And it's called the Tighten Up Jam. And I don't know if you're familiar with this. You can tell it begins in this version of Dark Star at around the 13:30 mark, where Bob starts playing this sort of like funky guitar part that's kind of more melodic than the rest of the song. You know, like the rest, like, leading up to that, it is more of like a typical dark star kind of a noodle y, jazzy, you know, interstellar exploration. And then around the 13:30 mark, it takes this shift into sort of like this funky guitar riff that they ride for the next several minutes. And it's like, really cool. And the reason why they call it Tighten Up Jam is that it. It's similar to this song called Tighten up, which was a 1968 hit by a group called Archie Bell and the Drells. Have you ever heard that song?

Rob Mitchum (63:07)

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Stephen Hyden (63:08)

It's like a classic song. Classic, classic R B jam, considered one of the, like, foundational songs of funk music. Before funk was really sort of regarded as like a standalone genre, like this song. As well as, you know, obviously the James Brown material that was coming out this time and early Sly in the Family Stone, all that stuff were the building blocks of what became funk in the 1970s. And the grateful Dead returned to that sort of musical motif many times in 69 and 70 especially. And you can actually go online. There's an article that's really interesting. It's on the Internet archive forums where someone went through all these sort of Grateful Dead live recordings and they found other instances of the Dead playing with this riff and other jams. And some of them are in Darkstar. Some of them, as I said before, are in Dancing in the street, for instance. The Dancing in the street in the Harper College show that we mentioned earlier that ended up being released as Dix Picks Volume 8. There's a section of that which has the same riff that occurs now. It was in 70. And according to this article, they went back to that riff many times in 70. And then they didn't do it for a while. And then they did it at this 71 show. This for the Sticks picks. And that was the last time they did it. It's like the last instance of the Tighten up jam.

Rob Mitchum (64:43)

Yeah, but it's actually. It's interesting. Like, I'm fascinated by the fact that. So, like, this is just one of a lot of different themes that the Dead would regularly jam on in sort of these early days. And in some cases all the way up to, like, the end of their run. Like, you have the Tighten Up Jam, you have the mind left body Jam, you have the feeling Groovy Jam, the Spanish jam. There's all these names named jams that in some cases were named by the fans. So it's never quite clear whether they actually are all the same thing or like the band intended them to be all the same thing.

Stephen Hyden (65:19)

Right.

Rob Mitchum (65:19)

Or whether it's just sort of like a sort of taper hive mind thing that they came up with. But it's always been fascinating to me how sort of like modular dead jams could be that, like, yes, they were improvising and they could go way out there and be super free and like, just happen upon new themes that they could carry through. But they also had these sort of like, sort of ready set chord progressions that they could pull out in cases where they felt like they just needed to go in a particular direction and tighten up. Well, and like the tighten up jam being an example of this. Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (65:52)

And from their perspective, you know, they're just playing shows they're playing, you know, they knew, I'm sure, that some people were following them, but for the most part, they're playing for different audiences every night. And they didn't, I'm sure they didn't conceive in like, 1970 or 71 that people would be like, obsessively studying every show they ever played, like 50 years later, like we're doing on this podcast. So, you know, it probably didn't occur to them that, like, oh, yeah, like, if we. If we have some of these sort of recurring motifs, you know, like, we'll know they're there, but maybe. But the audience surely won't notice that we're doing this, right? Yeah, yeah, but you bring up a good point that, like, I don't think that the band themselves have ever, like, talked about this and said, oh, yeah, we liked that Archie Bell song. So we like, kind of dropped it into this jam reading that Internet Archive article. You know, there's other songs that they've speculated that the Dead were inspired by it. And one of the songs so I could alternate theory to tighten up was Beginnings by the band Chicago.

Rob Mitchum (66:56)

Right.

Stephen Hyden (66:57)

In Beginnings is a song that, like, you know, if you listen to like, AM pop radio or you listen to like, oldies radio, like, you know, that song, it's like a pretty popular kind of like hippie era pop song of the time. So in a way I kind of wish that it was the Chicago song that they were like, we just love Chicago. And. And like this article, it goes into how, you know, like, Terry Cath, the guitar player from Chicago, like, I guess he had played with the Dead a little bit, like, in the late 60s. So, like, you know, the writer of the article was. Was. Was speculating that, like, the Dead would have known that record. So it's possible that they liked that song and, you know, maybe took the progression.

Rob Mitchum (67:46)

Tighten up was the number one. Like, it. It hit number one in the country, Right?

Stephen Hyden (67:51)

Yeah.

Rob Mitchum (67:51)

I mean, it was a positive success.

Stephen Hyden (67:54)

Which, by the way, like, you listen to that now, and, like, it's so. It's so cool that that was, like, the number one song, because I know.

Rob Mitchum (68:01)

It'S basically just a guy, like, yelling at his band for three minutes.

Stephen Hyden (68:04)

Yeah.

Rob Mitchum (68:04)

I mean, play a funk groove.

Stephen Hyden (68:06)

Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's like a studio jam. It's, like, pretty raw. It's, like, not really a song. It's just, like, kind of like a groove, but, like, it's. It really slaps and, like, it sounds awesome and. And it's like, wow, like, something this raw and Unpolished was, like, the number one song in the country.

Rob Mitchum (68:21)

Captured the IM of the entire country. Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (68:24)

So I don't know if we want to get into, like, a Dark Star discussion. I. You know, I'm not as big of, like, a Dark Star disciple as some people, you know, like, there's some people that, like, feel like that's, like, the be all, end all of the Grateful Dead, and, like, they'll actually, like, rank their favorite Dark stars. Actually. Pause there for a minute. Another thing that was interesting from that Internet Archive story that didn't occur to me when I was listening to this Dark Star, but it made sense after I read this is that some fans have said that that Tighten up jam is actually a precursor to Eyes of the World.

Rob Mitchum (68:59)

Right. Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (69:00)

And that totally makes sense after I read it. And now when I listen to this Dark Star totally makes me feel like, oh, yeah, this is like Eyes of the World, you know, two or three years before Eyes of the World. And Eyes of the World is a be all, end all song for me personally, for Grateful Dead. Like, I love that song, and I love what they did with that as a jam vehicle.

Rob Mitchum (69:21)

Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (69:22)

So that's really.

Rob Mitchum (69:23)

It probably explains why the Tighten up jam, like, disappeared after the show, because, I mean, what. What seems logical to me is that they liked playing this chord progression, so they just kind of changed the key of it and built Eyes of the World out of it.

Stephen Hyden (69:38)

Right.

Rob Mitchum (69:38)

Like, it seems like it would be a pretty short walk to make, you know, make that assumption and, yeah, then they could jam on it, you know, all the Live Long day with their own song instead of, like, dropping this into other, other songs. So, yeah, I mean, it has that same, like, rhythm that the Eyes of the World chords have. It's just in a different key.

Stephen Hyden (70:01)

So how do you feel? Like, this Dark Star stands, like, in the pantheon of Dark Stars. Like, for you.

Rob Mitchum (70:07)

Yeah. Like, so I am not like a big Dark Star scholar either. Even though I like it, I think more than you do. Like, it is sort of like the Dead song that.

Stephen Hyden (70:17)

I mean, I love Darkstar most, I don't want to say. But, like, I'm just saying, like, some people are like, that's their number one. It's like that it's not my number one. But I obviously love Dark Star, so I just want to say not knocking Dark Star.

Rob Mitchum (70:31)

Yeah. When people ask, like, what my favorite Dark Star is, I feel like I have really, like, generic opinions. Like, I love the Live Dead Dark Star and I love The Dix Picks Volume 4 Dark Star, which we'll talk about in a couple episodes, which feel like very, like, entry level dead. Maybe like 201 level dead. Like, once you've gotten to the point where you can handle a half hour Dark Star. But both of those are the ones that I pretty much compare all Dark Stars to in my mind. And so I got to admit, like, I didn't want to interrupt you earlier, but I kind of actually don't really like this Dark Star as much as a lot of Dark Stars. Like, I know this is meant to be, like, the featured, like, performance on this Dix Picks, but. And I really like the Tighten Up Jam, but I feel like the, like, 13 minutes leading up to it are pretty aimless as far as Dark Stars go. And the Tighten Up Jam really feels like sort of the band making, like, an effort to just go in a totally different direction and save a Dark star that is sort of meandering up to that point. Like, it's not really doing much for me until this kicks in.

Stephen Hyden (71:36)

Yeah, I kind of agree with that. I mean, I like this Dark Star a lot overall and. But I do believe, I do agree that it doesn't really totally click into place until, like, that 13:30 mark. And like, the last 10 minutes, I think are really great. And then. And it probably makes me, like, the first 13 minutes more because it's building up to that. And I mean, I wouldn't call it aimless because I'm not bored by it. I'm always like, I'm pretty Like, sucked in to that part of the jam. But like, yeah, it's not. It's not my favorite dark star. Actually one of my favorite dark stars ever. And no one ever really talks about this one, but I love the Dark Star from Dick's Picks 19, which was a 73 show that they did in Oklahoma City. And that. That has a Mind Left Body jam in it as well. And I just love 73 dark stars. I mean, I love 1973 anyway, as I talked about in our last episode. But the dark stars from that year are a little jazzier and a little more laid back and a little space here. And that's my favorite kind of dark star. Like when they get spacey and a little jazzy and more pretty. And I feel like this one, it kind of approaches that in the first part without really getting there. I feel like they're trying to find something and they don't quite get there. And then the tighten up part of the jam is really cool, but it feels almost like a separate thing. And it's almost like a. It's almost. This isn't a criticism. It's gonna sound like. The way I'm putting it is a criticism, but it's like. It's a little too song oriented almost for a dark star. You know, like. Like dark stars are tended to not be as melodic as that is. Like it. Like it sounds like a song. Whereas I feel like Dark Stars are generally more. They have more of a freeform feel to them, I think, at their best.

Rob Mitchum (73:44)

Well, it really pops out of you because of that. Yeah. And I mean, we'll get there. But the. The Dixbys 4 Dark Star has the feeling. Groovy jam. One of the other many themes of the early Dead. And yeah, it feels the same way where it's just like all of a sudden like a radio hit. It's like you're tuning a radio and all of a sudden you land on like an actual poppy chord progression in the middle of this very experimental surroundings.

Stephen Hyden (74:15)

So it's cool. But going again, I'm just thinking of that Dick quote from the beginning that you read where he said he was speechless when he heard this and it made him rethink the whole concept of music or whatever. It's not really a mind blowing dark star. I feel like, like that kind of dark star. I think when people think about that, they think of like the Live Dead version. Like, that has more of like a transcendental type feel to it. Like, if you're gonna just be blown away and Taken to a different place.

Rob Mitchum (74:48)

Like, yeah, my favorite guitar performance of all time. Like, Jerry on that Dark Star, like, does it all for me. Like, that's all I need from the guitar. Is that, like, you know, 20 some minutes of Dark Star? Yeah, this one. I mean, it just. It feels like it's. Even in the Tighten up jam. It feels like it's, like, dying out every couple minutes. And then somebody, like, steps it up and gets it going again. Like, I almost want it to be a little more effortless, but you can really hear sort of, like where things are sort of petering out and then somebody decides to, like, pick it back up again. It's great. It's fun. There's part of it also that sounds a lot like Slave to the Traffic Light. I gotta say. I don't know if you noticed that as well.

Stephen Hyden (75:35)

Oh, yeah.

Rob Mitchum (75:35)

If you go to Fish fans, go to minute 18 of the Dix picks two, Dark Star, and you can hear Slave to the traffic light 25 years ahead of time. But, yeah, I mean, it's kind of like. It's kind of cool hearing each of the band, each member of the band sort of take that role. Like, there's a really cool Billy part, like, around. In. Towards the end of it.

Stephen Hyden (75:57)

Yeah.

Rob Mitchum (75:58)

I was gonna say, like, picks it up all of a sudden, starts playing, like, breakbeats, essentially. That is kind of, like, gives them that last little oomph over the hill to get into Sugar Magnolia. I was gonna say, like, you know, it's.

Stephen Hyden (76:11)

That breakbeat part that Bill plays is, like, one of my favorite parts of that whole jam. And it only lasts maybe 10 seconds. Like, it's not that long. And as you say, like, Sugar Magnolia comes in, like, right after that. I was like, they've already been playing this for 23 minutes. But I'm like. I kind of wish that went on longer like that. I always feel, like, a little frustrated that Sugar Magnolia comes in there because I'm like, oh, that's like, a really cool part that Bill's playing, but he kind of drops it because they have to go into this other song.

Rob Mitchum (76:44)

Yeah, I mean, I do think, like, this is all coming back to 71, being a really transitional year, being a new lineup, being new. Like, Dark Star obviously isn't new material, but Sugar Magnolia is. So they're still sort of, like, figuring out, like, the natural place to put these things. And I feel like that kind of. I just get a sense of, like, indecisiveness from this Dark Star now. I like a lot of things later in this set, a lot more. And I think that might be what Dick was referring to. I don't know. It's hard to tell because, I mean, he does talk about the Dark Star is why he picked this particular set. But the set has a lot more to offer than the Dark Star, I think.

Stephen Hyden (77:25)

Well, let's go on to the next, I guess two songs. Because they're the two kind of like outliers on this set, you know, because you have the Dark Star epic, and then you have the Not Fade Away Going down the Road Feeling Bad epic at the end. And you have these two songs in the middle. You have Sugar Magnolia, a great Bob Weir, Robert Hunter song. And I'm trying to think of, like. Because obviously we were talking about Jack Straw before and you have Sugar Magnolia. What are some other, like, Bob Weir, Robert Hunter collaborations? Like, did they write Black Throated Wind together? Or was that like a.

Rob Mitchum (78:01)

That was Barlow by then.

Stephen Hyden (78:02)

Was that a Barlow song? Was that Barlow?

Rob Mitchum (78:03)

Okay, so Sugar Magnolia is famously why Robert Hunter refused to write songs for Bob for a long time, because he kept changing the lyrics around. I don't know if you know that story. It was like Bob.

Stephen Hyden (78:16)

No, I don't know that story.

Rob Mitchum (78:17)

When Bob started sort of, you know, early on. And you. We get there in this set a little bit too. This sort of early stages of Bob just like. I don't even know what to call it. It's like his own, like, version of, like, scat singing where he's like, you know, he starts saying hey, now every other line and, you know, sort of scraping those vocal cords whenever he can. But I'm 99% positive it was Sugar Magnolia that, like, Robert Hunter was just found it so distasteful that Bob was taking such liberties with his words that he refused to write songs for him anymore. And so Bob hooked up with John Perry Barlow instead for all of his 70s and 80s songs. I did learn that, like, eventually, but before the Dead ended, Bob and Robert Hunter wrote a couple of the, like, sort of early 90s debut dead songs together. But yeah, this is. This is towards the end of their collaboration.

Stephen Hyden (79:18)

And it's a typical, you know, it's a classic kind of Grateful Dead maneuver where they play this spacey jam and then they go like, right into, like, a feel good rock song. Like, that was what they always did. Like, where they would either play, you know, like, like a party song coming out of a jam, or they would play like one of those, like, slow moving Jerry Garcia ballads. Yeah. You know, usually the. Usually the ballads would come after, like, Like a drum space type excursion where it got kind of really evil and dark, and then they played this beautiful song. But there was also this. This thing that they would often do, like, where they would play something esoteric and kind of out there and then bring the people back with, like, a good time party jam, which seems like the construct here, like, going into Sugar Magnolia.

Rob Mitchum (80:04)

Yeah, this is kind of like a passing of the torch here, I think, because, like, St. Stephen was that song for a long time. Like, there are so many dark stars that go into St. Stephen, and of course, that's what they do on Live Dead, and this one goes into Sugar Magnolia instead, and it eventually gets to St. Stephen, but it's the last St. Stephen for a long time. So I think it's a little bit like, hey, we like doing this song better now.

Stephen Hyden (80:30)

Right? Right. Well, I did think it was. You know, the part where I really missed Donna in this show was at the end of Sugar Magnolia because they go into the Sunshine Daydream part, and I just associate that with Bob and Donna. So just having Bob sing that and that being an example of what you were talking about earlier, where Bob is really starting to, like, ham sandwich it up, you know, like, with. With his vocals. Like, I was thinking, like, the Sunshine Daydream part is being like, you know, like, that's where he's really scatting and, like, really getting into it and hollering and.

Rob Mitchum (81:02)

Yeah.

Stephen Hyden (81:03)

And all that stuff. And where very bar band type of delivery. And I say that with affection. You know, sometimes it's a little too much, but, like, that's part of what I love about Bob Weir, too, that. That he'll go there. But, yeah, then they go into to St. Stephen, and definitely a classic of, like, 60s dead that they were in the process of phasing out at this point.

Rob Mitchum (81:27)

Yeah, it's like, well, this is the last version until 76, I believe. And they played it a little bit. 76, 77. And then in 83 and then never Again. And I think, you know, towards the end there, it was the song Deadheads wanted to hear the most. I remember there were always rumors that they had sound checked it at those, like, 90s shows just to get people hyped up that they were gonna bring it back and they never did. And there's all these, like, interviews of Jerry where he was like, yeah, I got tired of playing it. Like, there's no, like, big secret as to why we retired St. Stephen. It was just, like, not what I wanted to do anymore. And it also had a lot of words and Jerry wasn't very good at remembering a lot of words towards the end. So, yeah, no more St. Stephen. And it's, you know, you hold up in this show especially like the energy of Sugar Magnolia compared to the energy of St. Stephen in this show. It's not that great of a St. Stephen. It's already getting a little slow. When it came back, it was even slower. But this one is kind of like, you know, it's a little limp compared to Sugar Magnolia and they're not as excited about playing it. So kind of makes sense that this is, you know, it's sort of first finale.

Stephen Hyden (82:40)

Well, and all the real heads know that St. Stephen has come back in recent years with Dead and Company.

Rob Mitchum (82:47)

Oh, God.

Stephen Hyden (82:48)

Thanks to founding guitar. Thanks to John Mayer bringing it back. Bringing, you know, bringing back the 60s dead.

Rob Mitchum (82:55)

Yeah. Waving play video. I was searching for something about. Yeah. When St. Stephen came back and came across some video somebody posted where Dead and Company screwed it up so bad they had to like, literally stop the entire song and then restart it.

Stephen Hyden (83:12)

See that. That to me is an argument for the. For Dead and Company being an authentic Grateful Dead experience, you know, because, like, you know, it's like, you know, do you want them to be super polished like a Las Vegas band, or do you want them to, you know, fuck up songs where they have to start it over again, you know, like. So that's. That's the plus side for that. So after St. Stephen, we get into the Not Fade Away going down the road feeling bad, back into Not Fade Away. And we talked about Dark Star being at the front of the set and in a way kind of put in a pole position to be the star of the set. But you feel like the real star is this end part, this end sequence.

Rob Mitchum (83:55)

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a little bit like. I mean, they're very different songs, but in the same way that Sugar Magnolia is so much more enthusiastic than St. Stephen, I kind of feel like this like, Not Fade Away sequence at the end is. Has a lot more sort of energy and excitement behind it than the Dark Star does. Like, everything that is indecisive about the Dark Star, like, even though it does get to some interesting places, like this one is just like a full on sprint for 20 minutes. And I don't know, it's. Maybe it's just that I'm like, not as burnt out on this sort of Not Fade Away Going down the road feeling Bad sandwich. But there's a Lot of things I like about this version that make me want to listen to a whole bunch of them. I just think it's like a really cool dynamic how they go in and out of the two songs. Like, it's very fluid. The segues are amazing. Billy is like, incredible through this whole sequence. Like, you can finally gets to just kind of like rock out in a way that he doesn't really do in the Dark Star as much. And, like, I really love how he like, sticks to his toms almost exclusively in the Not Fade Aways, even in like the jam parts of the Not Fade Aways and then gets to use his full set for the middle part. There's just a lot of, like, little touches here and there. And like, I don't know, it seems like they. In the way that all good sets from jam bands do. Like, it seems like they are sort of touching on a lot of themes from earlier in the set. Like, they never go back into a full tighten up jam, but you can kind of hear it, I feel like in the background, sort of like hovering above this whole last sequence. I feel like Bob is pretty straight up playing the Sugar Magnolia chords for certain parts of it. I feel like Phil is like teasing Love Light for some reason, which is like, crazy. Like, it sounds like he's trying to drive them into Love Light. But Pigpen's not even there. And I don't even know what they would do with Love Light without Pigpen there at this point. There's a whole section that is Cold, Rain and Snow. Like between Going down the Road Feeling Bad and the return to Not Fade Away. It's just like there's so much going on at once. And it's here where it really feels like this, like, lean, mean, four piece Grateful Dead four and a half piece with Keith kind of hanging on to his piano bench over at the side. But, like, they are really just like throwing out ideas like crazy here at the end of this set. And. Yeah, I don't know, I think it's like, I find it thrilling in a way that the Dark Star just doesn't do it for me.

Stephen Hyden (86:31)

Yeah, it's an interesting comparison because when you listen to the Dark Star, you definitely feel like, okay, this is the Grateful Dead trying to create a masterpiece. You know, like they're trying to blow minds with this and they're searching for something that is going to be this, you know, transformative psychedelic experience. And, you know, we talked before about how you can hear them straining a little bit at the beginning of that jam where I think it's really cool, but it doesn't ever quite achieve liftoff. And then you hear this part of the set and I have to remind myself that they're basically playing for 20 minutes here. I mean, you could. You could basically count this as one song and you could count it as a 20 minute jam. But it doesn't feel like that. Like, it feels very swift. And there is a sense of effortlessness to it that makes it maybe easy to take for granted. But, like, when I was listening to it, just how well it flows and how much it rocks. Like, it. It is like just a great performance at the end where, unlike the Dark Star, like, they're not. They're not straining for profundity, you know, they're just playing. You know, they're just having a good time. And there is a breeziness to that performance that is really likable and endearing. Again, it's not the kind of thing where, you know, if you're gonna listen to, you know, the dick quote about, you know, this show's gonna blow your mind or it's gonna change your life. It's not that kind of jam. But, like, it will definitely appreciate. Make you appreciate how hard the Dead could groove at this time. And especially when they only had one drummer. Like when they was just Bill back there, they could really groove hard. When did they start doing China Cat into I know you writer. Like, when did that become, like, a common sequence for them to play? I mean, because they weren't doing that yet, were they?

Rob Mitchum (88:34)

Yeah, they were already sort of late 60s. Like, that's pretty. Because I feel like pretty standard by this point.

Stephen Hyden (88:39)

Yeah, I just feel like that became like, perfected though, like around this time, like early 70s, like, where they could really, you know, especially that middle part, connecting the songs. Because it just. It just reminded me, like. Like listening to this kind of reminded me of that. Like, how those two songs are connected and like, how they were able to weave in and out of the, you know, the beginning of Not Fade Away into going down the road feeling bad and then back into Not Fade Away, how they really got good at that. And obviously they were doing that in the 60s with like, you know, like alligator into the 11 and, you know, like. Or St. Stephen into the 11 and all that. Like, they were doing that a lot in the 60s. But that kind of jamming where it's. Yeah, just effort kind of segueing. Segueing into songs like, really well like that and having interesting jams, connecting songs.

Rob Mitchum (89:36)

Yeah, it's just well, that, like, connective tissue. Connective tissue between China and Rider was just getting longer and longer at this point. And you get some really. I think it got sort of to its, like, most extended in sort of 73, 74.

Stephen Hyden (89:52)

Right.

Rob Mitchum (89:53)

But yeah, you're exactly right. Like, that's where this gets really exciting is. I mean, those three minutes sort of at the end of going down the road feeling bad. You know, Jerry always sort of plays that sort of slower melody at the end of going down the road feeling bad. That sort of signals that they're heading back to not fade away, but they don't jump there right away. Like, there is still like three more minutes of, like, extremely open improv where, I mean, you. You brought up China Cat. I feel like Bob's playing China Cat really fast at one point over that sort of, like, end groove, over the cold rain and snow chords. Like, it's just like. You don't often hear the Dead, like, throwing out that many ideas that fast, I guess. And it's. It's really cool. It's just like a sort of little mini, like, symphony of, like, reprising a lot of the themes that they had played already in that night and some things that they didn't even play. So I really like that part a lot. And I think that's. You know, Dick talked about needing a seatbelt to listen to this. And I feel like you didn't need a seatbelt to listen to the Dark Star. It kind of loped along even during the Tighten up part. This part, you know, I listened to it a lot on my way home, driving home from work this week and definitely drove a little faster than I should have when I got to the last 20 minutes of this disc.

Stephen Hyden (91:13)

So the song they ended up playing for the encore, which is not on Dick's Picks Volume 2, is Johnny be Good. That was cut out and, you know, probably for the best. I'm sure it was awesome to hear it at the time. But, you know, Grateful Dead, Johnny, Grateful Dead, Chuck Berry covers usually are not, like, my favorite thing to hear. Like, either Johnny B. Goode or a Round and round. Usually pretty exciting.

Rob Mitchum (91:37)

I do think it's funny that, like, unlike, you know, your standard CD, you've got, like, 72 minutes to work with, right? And I think this comes out to like, 57, 58 minutes total. So, like, they could have put like, one or two songs from the first set on the end of this, like, but they decided not to. I find that really interesting that they were just like, nope, that's it, this set, that's all we're putting out in a way. No, no bonus features, no filler.

Stephen Hyden (92:05)

I respect it because I think the idea was to create like a, like an hour of music that flows really well. And it's like we, if we put some songs at the beginning just to fill up the space on the cd, you know, is that really going to add to the experience of this album? And, you know, probably not. You know, as much as it would have been nice to hear that, you know, you want to hear as much as you can. You know, as flawed as this album is, I. I do respect that decision. And I think that was probably, if you're gonna do an edited version, this is probably the best way to go, you know, so that, that makes sense to me. And I have to say too, you know, we have this thing on our show, we call them bathroom breaks, and we give each other one bathroom break when we listen to the album where if there's a track that we don't want to sit through, we were allowed to skip it. And I mean, I didn't skip anything on this album. I mean, there's not that much to skip anyway. But you know, there's.

Rob Mitchum (93:09)

You have some bladder problems if you had to take a bathroom.

Stephen Hyden (93:12)

Exactly.

Rob Mitchum (93:13)

So during the soccer, if you had to pee during Dick's Picks to consult your physician.

Stephen Hyden (93:18)

Yeah, just put on a diaper or something. You know, it's. There's no reason you should be going to the bathroom if you're, if you're. If your bladder's that weak. So. But no, I think, as much as I think I would have preferred to hear like a two disc set, you know, that had more of the first set on it, if you're gonna do a one disc album like this, you know, I think they chose wisely in terms of how they edited it, so I think that's fine.

Rob Mitchum (93:50)

Sam.

Stephen Hyden (94:34)

So I think it's fair to say this is not going to be one of our favorite Dicks picks, like, ever. You know, I think when, you know, when we're done with this series and we look back on our favorite albums, this is not going to be one of them. But I think it's a. It's a good show. There's some good performances on it, and I would definitely recommend anyone going on re listen and hearing the whole show because I think there's a lot of good music in there. Not the best Grateful Dead show, certainly not the best Dick's Picks, but it's still 1971 dead, so you Know, you can't really go wrong.

Rob Mitchum (95:10)

And they're like. I think to your point, they're still sort of figuring out the format. Like, what. What do Dead fans want? Do they want full shows? Do they want highlights from a show? Do they just want, like, the best 60 minutes from a show, like, presented sequentially with no filler or, like, you know, outside stuff brought in? So, you know, they were. They were trying things out. They were throwing it at the wall. And the single disc Dick's Picks model didn't really work. But, you know, they kind of use that, I think, in some other ways as they're, you know, in other various releases that the Grateful Dead did down the line where they were like, you know, maybe it's okay to just release the good part of a show because, you know, a lot of Grateful Dead shows have really, really good parts right next to some really, really bad parts. So this was, you know, sometimes this is the smart solution.

Stephen Hyden (96:06)

And again, I think, you know, we. We talked about this in our first episode, that not a lot of bands were doing this in the mid-90s, you know, putting out shows from their archives, you know, that weren't. That weren't being massaged in the studio sonically. You know, like fairly raw live recordings and the idea that fans would actually want to hear this stuff. I think they had to kind of prove to themselves that there were enough people that were willing to buy this stuff. Obviously, there were a lot of tape.

Rob Mitchum (96:39)

Yeah. That there was a market for it.

Stephen Hyden (96:40)

Right. Obviously there are a lot of tape collectors out there, but, you know, were people actually going to buy this stuff as opposed to just like trading it with other collectors? But they learned very quickly that. That the Dead audience would pretty much buy anything. So, you know, so they got over that pretty quick.

Rob Mitchum (97:02)

And 24 years later, nothing has changed.

Stephen Hyden (97:04)

Nothing has changed. So let's look ahead to our next episode. We're going to be doing Dick's Picks Volume 3, and it's taken from one of the most historic months in Grateful Dead history. The show is May 22, 1977, in Pembroke Pines, Florida. Of course, May 77. We all know the Cornell show from May 8. There are several other shows from May of 77 that are released as other Dix Picks albums that we'll get to later on, but definitely a very well represented month in the history of the Grateful Dead on live albums. And I think when we dig into three, we'll find that that's probably justified. Yeah.

Rob Mitchum (97:54)

And I think. Yeah, just. I think this is another example of, at least early on, Dick wanting to release shows that maybe people hadn't heard of, rather than these sort of treasured shows that everybody already had a good tape of. So he was like, I'm not gonna release Cornell. Everybody has a good tape of Cornell. So let's do this random May 77 show from.

Stephen Hyden (98:16)

Wow.

Rob Mitchum (98:16)

Another place in Florida that I don't even know where Pembroke Pines is. So two out of the. Two out of the first three Dix picks are from Florida. The. The very under the radar home for hot dead shows.

Stephen Hyden (98:31)

I guess so. So we recommend that you guys check out Dick's Picks Volume 3 ahead of our next episode. Let's make this a listening party. Check it out and be prepared to hear us yap at you for an hour and a half or so about that.

Rob Mitchum (98:51)

Steve will be prepared about something better than water and coffee.

Stephen Hyden (98:57)

Exactly. By the way, we. And by the way, we did out Jam the Dead in this episode.

Rob Mitchum (99:02)

Oh, yeah.

Stephen Hyden (99:03)

It wasn't even close. Oh, yeah, we. We murdered the dead. The dead again. 58 minute jam on Dick's pick, volume two. Rob and Steve. 90 minute jams.

Rob Mitchum (99:15)

Yep.

Stephen Hyden (99:15)

Jam the hell out of this one, man. Yeah, I'm proud of us.

Rob Mitchum (99:19)

That's the. The Robin. Steve guarantee. Whatever the dead do, we'll talk for 50% longer.

Stephen Hyden (99:28)

All right, well, on that note, everyone, thanks again for checking out 36 from the vault. We'll be back again in a couple weeks to talk about Dick's Picks, Volume 3.

Rob Mitchum (99:38)

We'll see you.

Stephen Hyden (99:51)

36 from the vault is hosted by me, Stephen Haydn and Rob Mitchum and produced by Osiris Media. It is edited and produced by Brian Brinkman and mastered by Matt Dwyer. All music is composed by Amar Sastry unless otherwise noted. Logo design is by Liz B. Art and Design. The executive producer of 36 from the Vault is RJB.

Lawrence Lanahan (100:34)

This is Lawrence Lanahan, journalist, musician, and host of Rearranged, an Osiris Media podcast about music arranging. Once a song is written, arrangers make musical decisions that shape how we end up hearing the song. We're not just talking about adding orchestral accompaniment like horns and strings, or doing a cover version of a song. Arrangement can be putting happy music over dark lyrics, using samples, recording all acoustic, even tiny decisions like putting an electronic loop into an acoustic song to draw your attention to an important turn of phrase. It's all arranging. Rearranged Episodes are documentary essays where I use arrangements to answer some big questions like what is a song? And what can a song become? And how can the sound of a song, change the meaning you take from it. Listening this way has changed my relationship with music. Tune in to Rearranged and maybe it'll happen for you too. Learn more@rerangedpodcast.com.

Stephen Hyden (101:40)

Osiris.