Loading summary
Transcript322 lines
- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.
- [00:37]
B
The most horrible thing you could ever imagine. Woman's asleep in her own room, in her own bed and she's awakened to being stabbed. She's laying right here and whoever it was starts stabbing her. Joanne Witt lived alone in the home with her 14 year old daughter, Tyler Witt. Joanne had 20 stab wounds over her entire body. Some of the most horrific wounds I've ever seen. It was very brutal. It didn't appear that there was a robbery involved. There was nothing else missing from the home. And then the next question was, where's the daughter? And then, wait a minute, where's the daughter's boyfriend? Where are they?
- [01:21]
C
It was very devastating experience. My daughter is murdered and we don't know what happened. The next thing we know, they're telling us that our granddaughter and her boyfriend did it.
- [01:35]
A
The relationship she had with Stephen Colvard, she worshiped him. She would have done anything for him.
- [01:42]
B
She was turning into more of a rebellious teenager. She was testing the limits. She'd been getting into trouble.
- [01:49]
C
You've been arrested for murder.
- [01:51]
B
What? Who did I murder?
- [01:57]
C
Your mother.
- [02:00]
B
What?
- [02:02]
C
I'm upset. Whoever inflicted those wounds was very strong and I just don't believe a 100 pound Tyler Witt could have inflicted those wounds.
- [02:17]
B
Not true.
- [02:21]
C
She killed me.
- [02:21]
B
Then she's dead. No, she's dying. The victim's daughter is a very smart, manipulative 14 year old.
- [02:32]
C
There's no way that she came anywhere near her mother. I don't believe it could have happened.
- [02:37]
A
I think the evidence was overwhelming that.
- [02:40]
C
Tyler was not the one that did the killing.
- [02:44]
B
It wasn't a tricky.
- [02:45]
C
I want you guys.
- [02:47]
B
How dare you.
- [02:49]
C
The whole thing is crazy.
- [02:58]
A
I'm Richard schlesinger. Tonight on 48 Hours, a fatal Attraction. Norb and Judy Witt worked hard and planned well to live it up in retirement, traveling whenever they wanted in their luxury RV. In 2009, they spent two months traveling the country and came home to El Dorado Hills, California and days later got the phone call. It was their daughter, Joanne's boss wondering if they knew where she was.
- [03:55]
B
He says, well, she didn't show up for work on Friday and she didn't show up today. And we're worried that something might be wrong.
- [04:03]
A
Joanne Witt was 47, a single mother, raising her teenage daughter, Tyler. She was an engineer for the county. The thing was, Joanne always, always called when she was not coming to work. When you heard that she hadn't been at work the previous Friday or that Monday, did that strike you as odd?
- [04:26]
C
Oh, yeah. Well, like her boss said, she's never missed work without calling.
- [04:31]
B
Norb says, we're only two miles away. We'll go check on her.
- [04:35]
A
But Joanne's boss was one step ahead of them.
- [04:38]
B
He says, I've already called the sheriffs. And he says Joanne had confided that she and Tyler had been having some problems. And he says, we were concerned.
- [04:52]
C
I got in the car and got over there so fast, I think I was in a daze. By the time I got there, there was two sheriff's cars and two deputies out there walking around the house. And I said, well, I think I can get you in the house.
- [05:08]
A
Norb unlocked the house, but the sheriff's deputies ordered him to stay outside while they searched it. Before long, they told him Joanne was upstairs in her bedroom and she was dead.
- [05:22]
C
They never said killed or murdered, they just said deceased. So we didn't know what was going on. But when the CSI van came in and we had probably 20 detectives wandering around the place, we knew that she had been killed.
- [05:37]
A
Joanne had been stabbed about 20 times.
- [05:41]
B
It was very, very, very gruesome scene.
- [05:45]
A
Lisette Souter is the prosecutor on this case.
- [05:48]
B
There was a wound that almost decapitated her. Very violent.
- [05:54]
A
Two or three days before this, you'd been on vacation, having the time of your life.
- [05:57]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [05:58]
A
And you know, like that, everything changed.
- [06:02]
C
Yeah.
- [06:03]
A
The news got even worse. Their 14 year old granddaughter Tyler was nowhere to be found.
- [06:11]
B
We didn't know if Tyler had been kidnapped or we knew nothing.
- [06:16]
A
Can you remember what you were feeling? I mean, what?
- [06:18]
C
Shock.
- [06:18]
B
Just shock.
- [06:19]
C
Just shock.
- [06:19]
B
Total, total shock and concern about our granddaughter. Yeah.
- [06:23]
A
But it didn't take detectives very long to conclude that Tyler was not a victim. Just weeks before, Joanne had complained to a th about her daughter's relationship with a 19 year old boyfriend, Stephen Culver. And now detectives wanted to talk to both of them. Culver and Tyler met at a coffee shop soon after she started ninth grade and he had started college. Norb Witt says it wasn't long before Steven started influencing Tyler, and not in a good way.
- [07:00]
C
He had a 14 year old that looked to him as God. I mean, he had total control over her. We knew that drugs were involved. We knew that a lot of Drugs were involved. They were into marijuana, ecstasy, cocaine. What does that do to someone's mind?
- [07:19]
A
Just weeks after they met Steven and Tyler convinced her mother to let Steven rent a room in their home. And Joanne thought the two were just friends. They told her he was gay, and Joanne told skeptical friends Stephen could help Tyler with her homework and help her pay the mortgage.
- [07:39]
C
No one, every friend she had, everyone in the family did not want him in there. But Joanne was very strong willed, so.
- [07:47]
A
She let Stephen move in. But within a month, Joanne had become suspicious. She came home one day and was shocked when she went to Stephen's room.
- [07:59]
B
This is the room where it all began.
- [08:01]
A
The prosecutor took us through the house.
- [08:04]
B
Joanne walked in and caught them in a compromising position. They had just or were about to engage in a sexual relationship.
- [08:12]
A
Tyler was naked, right?
- [08:14]
B
She was actually inside this closet, crouched down, covering herself, butt naked.
- [08:25]
A
Joanne did what any parent would do. She ordered Steven to leave, and she called in two of her male co workers to help throw him out.
- [08:35]
C
She said she was going to kick Stephen out and she didn't want to be there alone.
- [08:39]
A
Vinnie Catapano was one of Joanne's friends. He helped move Culver's things to the sidewalk and then confronted him. The first thing I said to him is, if it was me, you'd be.
- [08:50]
C
In jail right now.
- [08:52]
A
Joanne believed Culver had committed a crime, statutory rape, by having sex with Tyler, who was a minor. Joanne warned Culver she'd call the sheriff if he didn't immediately stop seeing Tyler. Vinnie took a more direct approach.
- [09:09]
C
I said, if you make contact with Tyler again, either by phone or in person, I'm going to hurt you. And I'm going to hurt you east coast style, not west coast style.
- [09:21]
A
What does that mean?
- [09:22]
C
I was trying to intimidate him.
- [09:24]
A
Did he seem intimidated? Absolutely not.
- [09:26]
C
And that again, annoyed me more.
- [09:29]
A
Culver was also apparently not deterred by Vinnie or Joanne.
- [09:33]
C
He snuck over to the house 20 times.
- [09:36]
A
They continued their affair during the day when Joanne was at work and late at night when she was asleep. When Joanne found out, she made good on her threat and called authorities, who opened an investigation.
- [09:51]
B
She wanted him away from her daughter, but they couldn't stand the thought of not being together. And so that's when the plotting began.
- [10:03]
A
Within days, Norbwitt unlocked the house and sheriff stood. Deputies discovered the results of that alleged plot. Norb and his wife Judy now faced a terrible choice. Getting justice for the murder of their daughter meant turning their backs on their granddaughter.
- [10:23]
C
If she hadn't done Whatever she did, her mother would still be alive today. Probably.
- [10:29]
A
And prosecutors say Tyler and Steven apparently didn't intend to stop with Joanne. They had more killing in mind.
- [10:46]
B
Imagine fast hydration combined with balanced energy. Perfectly flavored with zero artificial sweeteners. Introducing Liquid Ivy's new energy multiplier, Sugar free. Unlike other energy drinks, you know the ones that make you feel like you're glitching. It's made with natural caffeine and electrolytes so you get the boost without the burnout. Liquid IV's new energy multiplier, Sugar free hydrating energy. Tap the banner to learn more.
- [11:15]
C
Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back.
- [11:23]
B
So I thought it would be fun.
- [11:26]
C
If we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment.
- [11:37]
B
Of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of network's busy taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.
- [11:49]
A
It was less than a month before her murder, and Joanne Witt had had enough. She went to the sheriff to complain about Stephen Culver's sexual relationship with her underage daughter. That's when Culver got this call.
- [12:05]
C
Have you ever had sex with her?
- [12:06]
A
Have you ever had sex with Tyler?
- [12:08]
C
No.
- [12:09]
A
It was from a detective.
- [12:11]
C
Okay. And what's your relationship with her? He's like a sister to me.
- [12:16]
B
I understand. She's 14.
- [12:17]
C
I understand all this. I'm very, very scared at the moment. You need to be honest because it'll look a lot better if you just come out clean.
- [12:26]
A
But things were just getting worse for Tyler and Steven. Joanne discovered Tyler's diary, and prosecutor Lisette Souter says it could not be more incriminating.
- [12:38]
B
It depicted very explicit writings of different sexual positions, different encounters, things that made it very clear that in fact they had had a sexual relationship.
- [12:54]
A
Joanne turned the diary over to the detectives and broke the news to her very angry daughter. She felt betrayed by her mother, Tyler's attorney, Mark Ralphs.
- [13:06]
C
And she was devastated. And she was very much afraid that he was going to go to prison.
- [13:12]
A
Culver thought he would face serious prison time once detectives read that diary that Joanne gave them in his mind, up.
- [13:21]
B
To 20 years in prison for what Joanne had just done to him.
- [13:26]
A
And souter believes that's when Steven and Tyler decided they had to kill Joanne. Even though Joanne had already turned over.
- [13:35]
B
The diary, they both made the decision that, yes, this is what we're going to do.
- [13:40]
A
Authorities believe the murder occurred late at night on Thursday, June 11, 20, 2009. After Joanne went to bed, her daughter.
- [13:49]
B
Let in Stephen Culver. After they had made sure she was asleep, Stephen got out a knife.
- [13:56]
A
The knife was never recovered, but investigators believe it looked something like this. A 10 inch long chef's knife. Souter believes it was Culver alone who stabbed Joanne in a particularly violent attack.
- [14:10]
B
She's laying right here. He starts stabbing her.
- [14:13]
C
Wow.
- [14:14]
B
Very brutal. She tries to fight back. She puts her hands up, there's a struggle. The sheets are messed up, things go flying. And that's how she's found, with her legs over the bed.
- [14:30]
A
A bloody outline of the knife was left on the bed.
- [14:33]
B
And ironically, in the nightstand next to the bed where she died, there was a book, how to parent your out of Control teenager.
- [14:42]
A
After the murder, Souter says Tyler and Steven covered Joanne's body with a blanket, turned down the air conditioning to help preserve the body, locked up the house, and left.
- [14:54]
B
I think how they acted afterwards is very shocking, that they were hanging out with their friends. They were kissing and holding hands along the street. They were living their life without Joanne.
- [15:09]
A
But they didn't plan to live very long. Using logic only a teenager might understand, Steven and Tyler allegedly killed Joanne so they could run off and kill themselves. They both believe Steven was about to be arrested for having sex with Tyler.
- [15:27]
B
That's when it led to, how are we going to be together? Well, we're going to be together forever and eternally by killing ourselves.
- [15:37]
A
How much thought did they put into this?
- [15:40]
B
Well, it's a great deal. Obviously, I don't follow their logic, but.
- [15:44]
A
Steven and Tyler were following their plan. They went to San Francisco, rented this hotel room, and ate a bizarre concoction of Fruit Loops cake and rat poison. It didn't work. And two days after Joanne's body was found, with police hot on their trail, the teens were discovered by local officers changing their clothes behind a dumpster at a mall. They were both charged with murder.
- [16:14]
C
You've been arrested for murder.
- [16:17]
B
Not true. She killed me.
- [16:21]
A
Then it wasn't long before Tyler ended the interrogation.
- [16:26]
B
I want an attorney. I want you gone. How dare you?
- [16:31]
C
You want an attorney and you want me gone? Okay, that we can do. And unfortunately, we can't talk to you again. Good luck.
- [16:43]
A
Detectives had a lot of questions for Tyler And Culver. And so did Steven's mother, Jan. Culver is convinced her son is innocent.
- [16:53]
B
I remember when I looked at the autopsy photos, and I just remember gasping at the horrific nature of them. Steven is incapable of that.
- [17:07]
A
But Steven and Tyler both left incriminating suicide notes. And Steven told two of his close friends that he murdered Joanne.
- [17:17]
B
He went so far as to get into the trunk of his car and show the bloody knife.
- [17:22]
A
I'm sorry. So he showed what you believe is the murder weapon.
- [17:25]
B
Correct.
- [17:26]
A
It was Steven's own words that helped convince prosecutors he actually stabbed Joanne Witt to death while Tyler stood by. When somebody says, I did it, and here's a knife I did it with. Indeed, that's a problem for a defense attorney.
- [17:40]
C
Very much so.
- [17:41]
A
Dane Weiner is Steven's attorney. He says Culver told his friends he killed Joanne to protect the real killer, the love of his life, Tyler Witt.
- [17:52]
C
He's planning on being dead in several days, so he's not concerned about the consequences for him. His goal is to prevent her from being labeled as a mother killer.
- [18:02]
B
He would care about others before himself, to his detriment. Stephen is the kind of guy who would drive off a cliff or jump in front of a bullet or run into a burning home for a friend.
- [18:13]
A
Even when he was interrogated shortly after his arrest, Culver was asking about Tyler.
- [18:19]
B
You spoke with Ty. How is she?
- [18:22]
C
Better now. She's probably going through a lot. I'm just worried about her.
- [18:29]
A
But he probably should have been worried about himself. His mother believes Steven has crippled his defense, and she told him so right after his arrest.
- [18:39]
B
Why on earth would you have ever said that you did this? We were both crying, and he said. He said, I was in a different frame of mind. He goes, I'm so sorry, Mom. And I said, you do realize that your words will probably convict you.
- [19:05]
C
Steven's not violent. He's not aggressive. Tyler wrote in her diary about how she wished her mother would die in a horrible car crash.
- [19:14]
A
Dane Weiner, who's defending Tyler Witt's boyfriend, Stephen Culver, says while Culver had a clean record, there is plenty of evidence that shows Tyler was violent and more than capable of stabbing her mother.
- [19:30]
C
Every friend she had, virtually, she told that she hated her mother. She said, if my mother doesn't let me see Steven, I swear to God, I will kill her.
- [19:42]
A
For Tyler's grandparents, it is almost impossible to believe.
- [19:47]
B
There. That's cute.
- [19:49]
A
Tyler was a beautiful baby when she was born.
- [19:53]
C
Tyler's birth. As soon as she was born, they let me in with the cameras, and I've got the pictures.
- [20:00]
A
Tyler was Norb and Judy Witt's third grandchild. Happier times.
- [20:05]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [20:07]
B
Tyler.
- [20:09]
C
I love you.
- [20:14]
B
Oh, she loves her papa now.
- [20:18]
A
Times are very different when you look at those pictures. Given all that's gone on, what happens in your heart.
- [20:26]
C
It was hard. It really was. Hey.
- [20:29]
A
Hey.
- [20:30]
C
She was a wonderful mother. Just the affection, the care. Her whole life centered around her daughter. No father involved at all. He was never in the scene. Joanne took Tyler everywhere, Very, very close.
- [20:49]
A
Everything changed, though, when Tyler was just five. According to Joanne's best friend, Roxanna Urgite, Joanne lost control just for a moment. It happened when she was taking Tyler home from daycare.
- [21:03]
B
They were on their way home, and they were driving. Tyler was screaming, and Joe was having trouble concentrating on driving and being safe. Driver. And she turned around and hit Tyler.
- [21:17]
A
Later, when daycare workers noticed a red mark in the shape of the Joanne's hand on Tyler's face. They reported it to the state cps, Child Protective Services, and Tyler was taken away from Joanne. She went to foster care for about a month until Norb and Judy could get temporary custody.
- [21:39]
B
She lived with us for about six months, where Joanne had to take classes.
- [21:43]
A
What kind of classes?
- [21:45]
B
Anger management and parenting.
- [21:49]
A
When Joanne got Tyler back, things were very different. In her house.
- [21:54]
B
No. After that, Joanne was afraid even to discipline her that strongly because she was afraid that Tyler would report her to cps.
- [22:02]
C
Cps. So that cloud was always there. Mommy, you know, I want to go out tonight with the boys or something like that, and I'm going.
- [22:10]
A
And that was always the threat.
- [22:12]
C
Yeah.
- [22:12]
B
Hi, Ty. What? Ty, wait a minute.
- [22:18]
C
What's wrong?
- [22:21]
B
Tyler got into this behavior that she could do whatever she wanted and there's no consequence.
- [22:34]
A
She watched as Tyler started getting into trouble at school, and she ran away from home several times.
- [22:42]
B
She was sweet. When she was growing up, she was sweet, but I don't know her now, and I don't want to know her now.
- [22:53]
A
Roxanna says Joanne finally started trying to discipline Tyler more in the months before she was killed. And that led to fights, violent ones.
- [23:05]
C
Deafening.
- [23:07]
B
Yeah. Things were starting to get physical between them.
- [23:12]
A
The authorities, including Child Protective Services, got involved several times. Tyler told them her mother frequently got drunk and beat her. But Tyler was never taken from the house.
- [23:24]
B
There was no abuse. She wasn't an alcoholic. She didn't get violent.
- [23:31]
A
And the authorities seem to agree. Prosecutor Lisette Souter says there is no evidence to support Tyler's accusations.
- [23:39]
B
If Tyler were truly beaten, to the extent that is sort of assumed from the way Tyler speaks, there were never marks, There were never bruises. There were people around a lot, and it never happened when any of those people are around. So was it something that happened just behind closed doors? I don't know.
- [23:58]
A
But less than a month before the murder, Joanne and her daughter had a fight, focusing this time on Tyler's second sexual relationship with Culver. Did she ever actually attack her mother?
- [24:08]
C
She did. She threw some things at her mom. It was the day that she learned that her mother had reported the relationship to the police.
- [24:15]
B
Actually, Tyler called the police pretending to be her mother, saying, my daughter's out of control. Come get my daughter.
- [24:23]
A
It has to be one of the more bizarre 911 calls ever made.
- [24:29]
B
911. Excuse me. My daughter, Tyler Witt, has physically assaulted me into vandalizing my home.
- [24:36]
A
That's Tyler impersonating her mother. She's trying to get herself taken away by the sheriff.
- [24:42]
B
Do you feel safe being on the phone with me? No, I do not. She would not go back into her room. I tried to push her back into her room, and we started to get into a fight, and I'm bleeding.
- [24:52]
A
It is chilling evidence of a deeply troubled mother daughter relationship. Joanne finally comes to the phone, and she really is injured. The angry voice in the background is Tyler.
- [25:05]
B
Hello? Yes, that was my daughter. Go ahead, finish your report. Send me to jail. Is her name Joanne? Are you safe? Okay. Are you injured at all? Yeah, we have deputies on the way. Thank you.
- [25:26]
A
Why would Tyler try to arrange her own arrest?
- [25:29]
B
I have asked Tyler that question, and she said she wanted to be anywhere but home. She would rather have been in juvenile hall than at home that day.
- [25:35]
C
Mom ended up with, I believe, a cut on her chin, some bruises on her arm.
- [25:42]
A
Joanne didn't need to go to a hospital, but Tyler was taken to juvenile hall. When Joanne refused to press charges, Tyler was released within hours and sent back home. Weiner questions why, with Tyler's history of fighting with her mother. Steven is the one prosecutors say stabbed Joanne.
- [26:07]
C
He has never hurt anybody or tried to hurt anybody or threatened to hurt anybody, as contrasted with Tyler, who has a very specific history with her mother and. And has literally threatened to kill her, to stab her, the very method by which she was ultimately killed.
- [26:27]
A
Joanne's parents, Tyler's grandparents, weren't sure what to believe, who did what to whom. But Norb was convinced that Tyler was involved in Joanne's murder somehow.
- [26:43]
C
She's not my granddaughter anymore.
- [26:48]
A
Your husband's Written her off. I mean, is that pretty much, have you a little harder for a grandmother?
- [26:55]
B
Yeah. I think she'll always be in my heart that it's not the Tyler that we know today. It was the Tyler that I knew before.
- [27:06]
A
I mean, you're writing off a girl now, a young lady who you've known since she was born.
- [27:12]
B
Yep.
- [27:13]
C
But she's gone. I've accepted it.
- [27:28]
B
Crime doesn't take a day off, and neither do we. I'm Katie Ring, host of the Crime House Daily podcast. Twice every weekday, we bring you the biggest crime stories as they unfold. In the morning, get the latest updates. At night, dive into the moments that matter. The pursuit of justice never stops. And with Crime House Daily, you won't have to either. Listen to and follow Crime House Daily, available now wherever you get your podcasts. It's just very, very emotional, to say the least.
- [28:06]
A
For two long years after Tyler's arrest, her grandparents would not have anything to do with her. But on this day, Norb and Judy Witt are at the Eldorado California Juvenile hall, where Judy finally plans to visit her granddaughter alone.
- [28:27]
B
I had no expectations. I guess it was 20.
- [28:31]
A
Tough to know what to say to their granddaughter, accused, along with her boyfriend, of killing their daughter.
- [28:41]
B
I said something about the horrendous act, and we didn't know if you had done it or not or how much you were involved. And she got the shocked look on her face, and she says, do you really think I could have done that?
- [28:57]
A
You believed her?
- [28:57]
B
I believed her.
- [29:00]
A
Norb will wait a little longer to see Tyler.
- [29:03]
C
The two of them planned and killed our daughter. That's the bottom line. We will never know the full story.
- [29:15]
A
But Stephen Culver's lawyer, Dane Weiner, has a tangled story to tell. He says Stephen was actually suicidal, not homicidal. He argues that Culver believed he was about to be arrested for statutory rape and his solution was to commit suicide along with Tyler.
- [29:35]
C
From Steven's perspective, the plan was to pick her up, leave, go spend a few days down in San Francisco and end their lives together. There was no discussion about killing Mom.
- [29:46]
A
Weiner says Tyler stabbed her mother, that Stephen didn't know anything about it until Tyler called him to the house where he saw her with the bloody knife.
- [29:57]
C
Steven comes over. He comes in the house. That's when he sees her at the door with the knife. He said the knife was bloody.
- [30:04]
A
Why can that not be true?
- [30:06]
B
He says that there's blood dripping everywhere. There was no other blood found in the kitchen area where he was Saying this was happening.
- [30:12]
A
There's no blood on the carpet or on the floor. None leading up to the door?
- [30:16]
B
None.
- [30:17]
A
Wouldn't you think there'd be some evidence of blood somewhere besides that room?
- [30:22]
C
And there may have been. They were focused on the bedroom. They didn't go through the house looking for blood drops.
- [30:27]
B
There is no physical evidence, there's no logical evidence to support Stephen Culver's claim of what happened.
- [30:34]
A
And prosecutors are counting on Tyler to help them prove that. There is one problem, though. Tyler is a liar. She lied several times to detectives, most importantly to those who interrogated her right after she was arrested.
- [30:51]
B
Who did I murder?
- [30:53]
C
Who did I murder? Conversation.
- [30:55]
A
Your mother.
- [30:58]
B
What?
- [31:00]
C
Your mom's dead. We are. We don't need to play this. We already know that you know that your mother's dead.
- [31:08]
A
Over time, Tyler gave up the act and, according to the prosecutor, admitted she helped plan her mother's murder. But she said Stephen did the actual stabbing. And with that, prosecutors struck a deal. If Tyler testified truthfully against Culver, she'd get a reduced sentence.
- [31:34]
B
You asked why I ultimately believed her. All the other evidence in the case that we have independently supports what she says.
- [31:43]
A
But 48 Hours found a witness who raises questions about Tyler's role in the murder. One of her neighbors who never was interviewed by authorities.
- [31:53]
B
Well, I was walking my little girl to go to the park, and I noticed that there was a young girl, young teen, sitting on the swings, and she was just looking straight down.
- [32:04]
A
The neighbor asked that we not use her name. Only after the murder, she says, did she realize she had been talking to Tyler Witt just months before the killing.
- [32:15]
B
I saw a lot of sadness. She seemed angry to me. She seemed very cold to me. She just seemed very lost.
- [32:24]
A
The neighbor got into a conversation with the young girl who complained that her mother drank a lot, and the two got into fights.
- [32:34]
B
I said to her, what are you going to do to try to fix this problem, you know, if this happens again? And she said, there is not going to be a next time. Next time, it's either going to be her or it's going to be me. That statement alone ran chills through me.
- [32:50]
A
When she heard there'd been a murder in the neighborhood, she went to the crime scene and was seen on news footage talking to an officer.
- [32:59]
B
And I said, sir, can you please tell me, did a young girl murder her mother? And he just looked at me and he said, it's a crime scene.
- [33:08]
A
Did you know that this was Tyler's house?
- [33:10]
B
I had no idea because I Never.
- [33:11]
A
I never jumped to that conclusion.
- [33:12]
B
I never let go of the conversation that we had at the park. It weighed very heavy on me.
- [33:19]
A
And now as Stephen Culver's murder trial gets underway, roughly two years after Joanne Witt's killing, he will be together again with the one person his lawyer says he wanted to protect. Tyler Witt. But this time, the one time lovers will point fingers at each other in court.
- [33:53]
B
This episode is brought to you by Greenlight. Get this, adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. From swimming lessons to piano classes, us parents invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives. But are we investing in their future financial success? With Greenlight, you can teach your kids financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing. And this investment costs less than that. After school treat stay start prioritizing their financial education and future. Today with a risk free trial@greenlight.com Spotify greenlight.com Spotify running a business comes with a lot of what ifs. That's why you need Shopify. They'll help you create a convenient, unified command center for whatever your business throws at you. Whether you sell online, in store, or both, you can sell the way you want, attract the customers you need and keep them coming back. Turn those what ifs into why nots with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial@shopify.com specialoffer that's shopify.com specialoffer.
- [34:56]
A
As Stephen Culver's murder trial finally gets underway, his attorney Dane Weiner is ready and eager to argue that the wrong person is on trial.
- [35:08]
C
He doesn't have a violent bone in.
- [35:09]
A
His body, but Tyler Witt, Culver's former lover and self confessed accomplice in the planning of her mother's murder, tells prosecutors a different story. She outlines her gruesome version of the killing. She says she let Steven into the house and that he was armed with a chef's knife.
- [35:29]
B
Tyler went to the kitchen, got out her own knife and the two walked quietly up the stairs.
- [35:37]
A
It was late at night and Joanne was asleep.
- [35:40]
B
They turn into Joanne's room. He walks ahead and just as he enters in, Tyler sees him making practicing motions as he's headed towards the bed. At that point, Tyler fell to the fetal position, was right there at the opening of the door, covered her ears. He began to stab Joanne.
- [36:06]
A
Prosecutors believe Tyler's testimony, saying it's corroborated by other evidence. Her lawyer, Mark Ralphs also says she passed a polygraph test, helping to prove she did not stab her mother. Who decided that Joanne Witt had to die? Tyler indicated she could not remember whether it was initially her idea or whether it was Steven's idea. She couldn't remember. How do you not remember whose idea it is to kill your mother? I don't know. It had been more than two years. But, counselor, it's the murder of her mother. I understand, but Tyler has other credibility problems. One psychologist called her sociopathic. And on the stand, she testified she has two. Two super beings living inside her. An angel named Alex and a demon named Toby. The demon, she says, takes control of her in times of stress.
- [37:06]
C
I think that has great significance. It gives a whole other personality, an aggressive, violent personality inside Tyler.
- [37:15]
B
It had nothing to do with the murder. So it's simply a defense attorney asking questions, trying to show flaws in Tyler's character.
- [37:23]
A
And if jurors have trouble with Tyler, prosecutors have DNA evidence to offer. It was found on Joanne's body and under her fingernails.
- [37:33]
B
When there is DNA underneath the fingernails with the defensive wounds, it is very likely that that DNA comes from Joanne trying to fight her attacker.
- [37:46]
A
There was not enough DNA to identify anyone, but there was enough to prove it came from a male.
- [37:54]
B
It really narrows it. Stephen Culver is a male. There's only one male that we're looking at.
- [38:00]
A
Stephen Culver's trial lasted four weeks, but it took jurors less than four hours to reach a verdict.
- [38:12]
C
Hello.
- [38:13]
B
Yes, we have a verdict.
- [38:16]
A
What does it mean that it went so quickly?
- [38:19]
B
This is good news.
- [38:20]
A
It depends whose side you're on.
- [38:22]
C
I think that's not a good sign.
- [38:24]
A
Steven Culver's lawyer, Dane Weiner.
- [38:26]
C
I've always been of the opinion that the longer they take, the better.
- [38:31]
A
Weiner believes his young client is moments away from becoming a convicted murderer. You braced your client for that?
- [38:39]
C
We discussed it. Has the jury reached the verdict?
- [38:42]
B
We have.
- [38:43]
C
It's a tense moment. Tense moment.
- [38:47]
B
We, the jury, find the defendant, Stephen Paul Culver guilty of the crime of murder of Joanne M. Witt.
- [38:53]
A
Culver is understandably shaken. He will end up in prison for the rest of his life. For reasons they would not discuss, prosecutors decided not to ask for the death penalty.
- [39:06]
B
I just felt the air leave my lungs.
- [39:09]
A
His mother, Jan, is still convinced he's innocent.
- [39:12]
B
I just wanted somebody to wake me up from the nightmare.
- [39:18]
A
For a crime this brutal, the judge has no other choice.
- [39:22]
C
The defendant shall be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.
- [39:28]
A
Tyler Witt, the girl Culver planned to spend eternity with, gets her reward for testifying against him, she's allowed to plead guilty to second degree murder.
- [39:39]
B
Are you doing it freely, voluntarily, because it's what you want to do? Yes.
- [39:42]
A
And gets 15 years to life.
- [39:47]
C
This was a brutal murder. The court had seen no emotion or even remorse for the loss of your mother. And I'm sorry for you, Mrs. Witt.
- [39:55]
A
Because the person who loved you most.
- [39:57]
C
In this world and without any reservation, is gone.
- [40:03]
A
There is enough heartbreak in this case to go around. And the last great tragedy is it all started because of a stupid miscalculation. Lisette Souter says Tyler and Steven murdered Joanne Witt because they feared he would be imprisoned for a long time for committing statutory rape.
- [40:24]
B
It would have been a misdemeanor, and the maximum that he could have received was a year in the county jail. Reality is, he probably wouldn't have gotten any jail time, really.
- [40:33]
A
So these kids thought it was the.
- [40:35]
C
End of the world.
- [40:37]
B
It really wasn't.
- [40:39]
A
But it is now the end of the free world for Culver. It's the outcome Norb and Judy Witt hoped for. But of course, there's no satisfaction, no sense of victory for two people who lost a daughter and a granddaughter.
- [40:56]
B
I really do wonder how we've gotten through it. I really, really do. You just know that you can give up or you keep going.
- [41:03]
C
What's your choice?
- [41:04]
A
You miss your daughter, of course.
- [41:05]
C
Absolutely.
- [41:07]
B
Every day.
- [41:08]
A
Think about her every day?
- [41:09]
B
Yep. Oh, yeah. First thing in the morning, last thing at night.
- [41:14]
A
Life has gone on for the wits. And Norb, who once turned his back on Tyler, has now started to turn around to soften on the subject of his now 17 year old granddaughter. You look at this little girl and then you look at the person that she is now. Do you wonder what happened to this little girl who used to bounce around on your knee all the time?
- [41:40]
B
Yes, all the time.
- [41:42]
A
For years, Norb could not bring himself to see Tyler. But finally, after the trial, he did.
- [41:50]
C
You heard the clanking of metal doors and then the door opened and she came in very meekly and said, hi, Papa. She came over and hugged me and started sobbing.
- [42:02]
A
Did you cry?
- [42:05]
C
I don't really remember. But I held her pretty tight and we just talked and I see some remorse.
- [42:15]
A
It is not easy to reconnect. And Norb isn't sure after everything that's happened, how close he can be to his granddaughter who helped murder his daughter. Have you forgiven her? Have you?
- [42:32]
C
I haven't forgiven her at this point.
- [42:34]
A
Do you want to?
- [42:35]
C
I don't know. Oh, yeah, probably. Deep inside, I do. But I don't know if it's possible. I don't know. I really don't know. And I don't think Judy does either.
- [42:54]
A
In August 2022, Tyler Witt was granted.
- [42:58]
C
Parole and released from prison.
- [43:05]
A
Now streaming on Paramount plus. Someone is trying to frame us until.
- [43:10]
C
Our names are clear. Weird.
- [43:12]
B
We're fugitives from interval.
- [43:14]
C
Like Bonnie and Clyde with better snacks.
- [43:17]
A
Espionage?
- [43:18]
C
You still as good a shot as.
- [43:19]
B
You used to be? Better.
- [43:22]
C
Is there love?
- [43:23]
A
Language?
- [43:23]
C
We like to walk that fine line between techno thriller and romantic comedy.
- [43:29]
B
We make up our own rules.
- [43:30]
C
NCIS Tony and Ziva.
- [43:32]
A
Now streaming on Paramount plus.
- [43:35]
C
Now streaming when people go missing, I get hired to help find them.
- [43:39]
A
When lives are on the line.
- [43:40]
B
Coulter, please find my daughter.
- [43:43]
C
He is the man for the job. I'm going to do everything you can.
- [43:45]
A
Don't miss a moment.
- [43:46]
B
Culture's in trouble. I can feel it.
- [43:48]
C
Of TV's number one show.
- [43:50]
A
These people are dangerous.
- [43:51]
C
I'm doing this alone.
- [43:52]
B
Not at all. Every Batman got to have their routing culture.
- [43:54]
A
Justin Hartley stars.
- [43:56]
C
I made a promise I would never stop looking in.
- [43:58]
A
Tracker all episodes now streaming on Paramount.
- [44:01]
C
Plus and returning CBS Fall.