A Preacher's Secret, Part 2

Summary

A Preacher's Secret, Part 2 – Detailed Summary

Podcast: 48 Hours
Host: CBS News
Episode Title: A Preacher's Secret, Part 2
Release Date: April 10, 2025

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Introduction

In the gripping second part of A Preacher's Secret, CBS News' 48 Hours delves deeper into the harrowing case of Matt Baker, a former Baptist preacher accused of murdering his wife, Carrie Baker. Hosted by Erin Moriarty, the episode navigates through the complexities of the investigation, the courtroom drama, and the relentless pursuit of justice by Carrie’s family, particularly her mother, Linda Doolin.

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Background

Carrie Baker's death initially appeared to be a tragic suicide. On April 8, 2006, Matt Baker, a respected preacher and husband, called 911 reporting his wife’s suicide. However, lingering suspicions from Linda Doolin, Carrie’s grieving mother, challenged this narrative.

Linda Doolin [02:22]: "I believe that her life was taken by her husband, Matt. I don't believe that a person should be able to walk free after he's murdered someone."

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The Investigation

Linda Doolin, unconvinced by the suicide verdict, took matters into her own hands by hiring attorney Bill Johnston and enlisting investigation aid from Matt Cawthon, a Texas Rangers sergeant. Their probing unearthed questionable evidence:

• Inconsistent Evidence: Experts indicated that Carrie couldn't have ingested the lethal cocktail of sleeping pills and alcohol and died within the short window Matt Baker claimed.

• Digital Footprint: Matt's computer showed alarming searches for terms like "overdose" and "death by sleeping pills" ([08:49]).

• Vanessa Bowles' Involvement: Phone records revealed frequent communications between Matt and Vanessa Bowles, a young parishioner, sparking suspicions of an affair ([06:43]).

Linda Doolin [09:49]: "We have to try to do such a good job and have the evidence be so clear and so strong that a prosecutor looking at it will say, I can do that, too."

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Reopening the Case

Despite the initial dismissal by authorities due to lack of concrete evidence, persistent efforts led to an autopsy three months post Carrie's death. Findings of UNISOM and Ambien in her muscle tissue shifted the classification from suicide to undetermined cause, leading to Matt Baker's arrest for murder ([10:14]).

Linda Doolin [13:13]: "He knows I'm not capable of hurting Carrie. There's too much about the staged crime scene to believe that Vanessa Bools was a key to this whole thing."

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The Trial

The courtroom became the battleground where truths were contested and lies unraveled. Key elements of the trial included:

• Vanessa Bowles' Testimony: Vanessa admitted to an affair with Matt Baker, providing explosive details about Carrie's murder, including Matt’s confession to her about smothering Carrie ([31:17]).

Vanessa Bowles [32:34]: "He told me that he had smothered her. She was screaming out for her babies. I know that."

• Defense Strategy: Matt Baker's attorney, Guy James Gray, vehemently attacked Vanessa's credibility, portraying her as a deceitful individual who changed her story multiple times ([35:51]).

Guy James Gray: "Vanessa is a liar, pure and simple."

• Evidence Presentation: The prosecution highlighted discrepancies in Matt's accounts, including the improbability of dressing a lifeless body within seconds and digital evidence linking him to the act ([25:00], [26:32]).

Linda Doolin [25:00]: "There was a guy who was holding a Bible on Sunday telling everybody how to live, and he murdered his wife."

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Key Testimonies and Evidence

• Crime Scene Analysis: Photographs showed uneven pooling of blood, contradicting Matt’s diagram of the body’s position ([25:20]).

• Digital Evidence: Matt’s online searches for Ambien and attempts to purchase it raised red flags about his intentions ([26:21]).

• Forensic Expert Witness: The defense presented a forensic expert suggesting that the DNA on the suicide note belonged to Carrie, aiming to cast doubt on the murder allegation ([36:09]).

Erin Moriarty [36:13]: "But isn't it possible that Vanessa Bowles is finally telling the truth?"

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Verdict and Aftermath

After days of intense deliberation, the jury found Matt Baker guilty of first-degree murder ([40:53]). The verdict brought a sense of closure and relief to Linda Doolin and her family, ensuring Matt Baker would no longer pose a threat.

Linda Doolin [40:59]: "I felt absolute relief that Matt Baker would never again be in a position to take a life or destroy life."

Despite the conviction, Matt Baker maintained his innocence, claiming that Vanessa Bowles fabricated the affair and subsequent confession to protect herself.

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Custody Battle and Healing

The aftermath of the trial involved a fierce custody battle for Linda and Jim Doolin to regain custody of their granddaughters, Kenzie and Grace. Against the odds, they succeeded, providing a nurturing environment for the girls to heal and thrive.

Linda Doolin [44:13]: "Grace is 12. She loves the arts and she's in band and she plays the piano. Kinsey will be 17 next week. She is very excited about the prospect of college."

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Conclusions and Reflections

A Preacher's Secret, Part 2 underscores the relentless pursuit of justice by a mother who refused to accept an easy explanation for her daughter's death. The episode highlights the importance of persistence in uncovering the truth and the complexities inherent in legal battles where evidence is intricately woven with personal relationships and deceit.

Linda Doolin [43:36]: "Incredibly close. If the Doolins hadn't pursued him, he certainly would have."

The episode serves as a testament to the impact of dedicated investigative efforts and the profound resilience of a family striving to find closure amidst tragedy.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Linda Doolin [02:22]: "I believe that her life was taken by her husband, Matt. I don't believe that a person should be able to walk free after he's murdered someone."

• Linda Doolin [09:49]: "We have to try to do such a good job and have the evidence be so clear and so strong that a prosecutor looking at it will say, I can do that, too."

• Vanessa Bowles [32:34]: "He told me that he had smothered her. She was screaming out for her babies. I know that."

• Guy James Gray: "Vanessa is a liar, pure and simple."

• Linda Doolin [40:59]: "I felt absolute relief that Matt Baker would never again be in a position to take a life or destroy life."

• Linda Doolin [44:13]: "Grace is 12. She loves the arts and she's in band and she plays the piano. Kinsey will be 17 next week. She is very excited about the prospect of college."

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Closing Remarks

A Preacher's Secret, Part 2 masterfully weaves a narrative of betrayal, determination, and the quest for justice. By presenting a comprehensive account of the case, the episode not only informs but also evokes empathy and a deeper understanding of the emotional toll such tragedies impose on families.

For listeners seeking a profound exploration of true crime, 48 Hours continues to deliver compelling stories that resonate long after the final verdict.

Transcript

[Linda Doolin]

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[Erin Moriarty]

Salt n Pepa and more.

[Linda Doolin]

Parents just don't understand. Don't miss the new season of Family Legacy. All episodes now streaming exclusively on Paramount. My name is Linda Doolin and Carrie Baker is my daughter. I believe that her life was taken by her husband, Matt. I don't believe that a person should be able to walk free after he's murdered someone. In this subject, someone is my daughter and it's time that we should have been grieving for our daughter, that we've been fighting for a cause. A former pastor in Kerrville behind bars tonight accused of murdering his wife more.

[Erin Moriarty]

Than a year ago.

[Linda Doolin]

You've got a man who's extremely concerned about his public Persona. And it's very important to him to be viewed as the perfect father, the perfect husband, the perfect Christian, the perfect preacher. But in reality, he lives his day to day life very differently. I am Matt Baker and I have been called a cheater, an adulterer, a murderer, a liar, and that's the farthest thing from the truth. Authorities finally have enough evidence to say Matt Baker gave his wife, Carrie Baker a lethal cocktail of sleeping pills and alcohol. Her nose and bruises to her lips indicate she was also smothered with a pillow. Matt Baker was very good at hiding his dark side. In her gut, she was figuring it out. But she didn't listen to those instincts. How could they think this of me? They know I'm not capable of hurting Carrie. They know that I don't believe she committed suicide. There's too much about the staged crime scene to believe that Vanessa Bools was a key to this whole thing. She was maybe the missing link.

[Erin Moriarty]

She was the quote.

[Linda Doolin]

Other woman murders have occurred for less. Did he ever send you song lyrics? Yes, he sent me song lyrics to the song Dirty Little Secret. It Went I'll keep you my dirty little secret don't tell anyone or you'll be just another regret My dirty little secret Dirty little secret Dirty little secret.

[Erin Moriarty]

Who has to know?

[Linda Doolin]

You start connecting the dots and you start getting a picture of what was really going on here. My name is Matt Cawthon, and at the time of Carrie Baker's death, I was a sergeant in the Texas Rangers. Matt Baker has been behind his walls, but today he was released from jail. At that point, the investigation was something else. Was gonna have to cause the next domino to fall. Doesn't matter how long it takes. We're in it till the end. You can't hide dirty little secrets forever.

[Erin Moriarty]

I'm Erin Moriarty. Dirty little secrets.

[Linda Doolin]

Carrie was a very good minister's wife. Faith was very important in her life.

[Erin Moriarty]

Linda and Jim Doolin are convinced that their daughter Carrie was murdered by the man they once embraced as a son in law, Baptist preacher Matt Baker.

[Linda Doolin]

This was a man who was capable of the ultimate evil.

[Erin Moriarty]

Matt has always claimed that his wife committed suicide, just as he told the 911 operator, a little after midnight on April 8, 2006. Hey, with 911, do you have an emergency?

[Linda Doolin]

Yes, I think my wife just committed suicide.

[Erin Moriarty]

He said he went out to get a video and gas for his car. When he arrived home, he found his wife lifeless on the bed, an empty bottle of unisom and a suicide note on the table.

[Linda Doolin]

I felt as if she was breathing. She was not. I shook her. She didn't answer.

[Erin Moriarty]

Their daughters, Kenzie, 9, and Grace, 5, were asleep in nearby bedrooms. Matt says it was because of another daughter, Cassidy, that Carrie took her own life. She never stopped granted, who had a brain tumor and died seven years earlier.

[Linda Doolin]

That was a tough time for her. Every year, every year did it get.

[Erin Moriarty]

Better as the years went on?

[Linda Doolin]

It never got better for her.

[Erin Moriarty]

But Carrie's mom and her family did not believe that Carrie would have abandoned her living children. And that suicide note, it was typed. Even the signature. Linda grew more suspicious when she discovered that there were numerous phone calls between Matt and a young parishioner named Vanessa Bowles.

[Linda Doolin]

We talked a lot, but I talked to a lot of friends, so it's not.

[Erin Moriarty]

Did you have an affair with Vanessa?

[Linda Doolin]

Oh, no, I did not. There was never any relationship at all other than a friendship.

[Erin Moriarty]

Matt certainly didn't seem like he had anything to hide. He voluntarily spoke with the Hewitt police a few months after Kerry died.

[Linda Doolin]

So since then it has grown into a good friendship. You know and I know for a fact My in laws don't like that.

[Erin Moriarty]

And he wasn't shy about airing his grievances against the Doolins, who had been pushing the police to investigate.

[Linda Doolin]

I think they're mad that they think I'm moving on. I guess they think I'm moving on too quickly.

[Erin Moriarty]

Matt patiently answered every question they posed.

[Linda Doolin]

She was laying in the bed. Okay.

[Erin Moriarty]

Was she clothed?

[Linda Doolin]

She was not. She had her. She had her. I'm trying to remember. No, she was naked.

[Erin Moriarty]

The police also questioned Vanessa.

[Linda Doolin]

Like I said, you're not under arrest, and this doesn't mean that you're under arrested. I'm sorry. This is just scary. I know, I know, I know.

[Erin Moriarty]

Who denied any affair with Matt.

[Linda Doolin]

Did you ever meet him romantically? No. Never. Okay.

[Erin Moriarty]

And that, it seemed, was the end of the police investigation. Linda was frustrated and felt the only way she'd know what happened to Carrie was to find out herself. So she hired attorney Bill Johnson and his team of investigators.

[Linda Doolin]

We became convinced that he'd done it. It seemed like that every expert we talked to told us that it could not have happened way Matt Baker said it happened.

[Erin Moriarty]

Matt said he was only gone for about 40 minutes. But Kerry's body showed signs of lividity, the pooling of blood after death. The experts said it was unlikely that Carrie could have ingested drugs, died and reached that state in such a short period of time. Moreover, record salvaged from Matt's work workplace server were incriminating.

[Linda Doolin]

We got to parts of it that showed he had searched terms like overdose and death by sleeping pills.

[Erin Moriarty]

Johnston felt the police dropped the ball, but he was hamstrung. There was no autopsy, and the death was classified as suicide.

[Linda Doolin]

There was a guy who was holding a Bible on Sunday telling everybody how to live, and he murdered his wife. Every minute that went by, Baker was closer to getting away with it. And he knew it.

[Erin Moriarty]

Johnston turned to Matt Cawthon, an old friend who was a member of the Texas Rangers, the statewide law enforcement team. Cawthon agreed unofficially to help.

[Linda Doolin]

The next step in my mind was to obtain records from telephones, any other type of records that we might need.

[Erin Moriarty]

To get those documents. Cawthon needed the district attorney's help. He was turned down flat.

[Linda Doolin]

I could not understand why I could not have the basic tools that I needed to continue with this.

[Erin Moriarty]

Cawthon persisted and finally convinced the authorities to conduct an autopsy three months after Carrie died. It was too late to test for drugs in her blood, but they did find UNISOM in her muscle tissue, along with traces of Ambien a drug Carrie was not known to take. The manner of death was changed from suicide to undetermined in September 2007, a year and a half after Carrie died, the police now felt they had a homicide on their hands. Matt Baker was arrested and charged murder. He was released on bond thanks to powerhouse attorney Guy James Gray, who took the case pro bono.

[Linda Doolin]

I only take the cases that I believe in with all my heart and this is one of them.

[Erin Moriarty]

And Gray says this is an injustice.

[Linda Doolin]

You can't go forward with a murder case unless you can establish that it is homicide. So you have to establish cause of death and that forensically is just not possible in this case. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast?

[Erin Moriarty]

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[Linda Doolin]

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[Erin Moriarty]

6 six months after Matt Baker was arrested, his fate changed again. Dramatically.

[Linda Doolin]

Heavenly Father, we thank you so much for our food, for our family, for our friends. Amen.

[Erin Moriarty]

Assistant District Attorney Crawford Long had decided it was too risky to take Matt to trial, so he dropped the murder charges.

[Linda Doolin]

The evidence was too speculative. Couldn't get beyond a reasonable doubt. With that, it's not was it a crime? And who committed it? But was it a crime at all?

[Erin Moriarty]

But Matt wasn't off the hook. Carrie's mother, Linda Doolin had decided to sue him for wrongful death.

[Linda Doolin]

I'm angry. And all he's doing is making us more determined to uncover the truth. We've got a guy on the street that's a killer, and I wasn't gonna let a guy like that outsmart me or outplay me.

[Erin Moriarty]

Linda's attorney, Bill Johnston, and his investigators were hoping any new evidence they might dig up for the civil case would help rebuild a criminal one.

[Linda Doolin]

We have to try to do such a good job and have the evidence be so clear and so strong that a prosecutor looking at it will say, I can do that, too.

[Erin Moriarty]

And Johnston had an advantage in a civil case. He could depose Matt Baker under oath and on camera.

[Linda Doolin]

He was foolish enough to allow me to. Did you have a sexual relationship with any woman in the year prior to Carrie's death? Other than Carrie? No. He could have pled the Fifth Amendment. While you have 911 on the phone, you're dressing her. How long did it take to dress her about again? Probably just seconds.

[Erin Moriarty]

Not very long at all.

[Linda Doolin]

All right. He clearly describe things that were impossible.

[Erin Moriarty]

Do you think Matt Baker knows what he's up against? No.

[Linda Doolin]

Up first like this toward me, he's used to conning people and having them do what he wants.

[Erin Moriarty]

What Matt didn't anticipate was that Crawford Long and fellow prosecutor Susan Schaefer weren't giving up because they, too, believed Matt killed Carrie. The problem was proving it.

[Linda Doolin]

You get one bite at that apple, and if you get an acquittal, it's over.

[Erin Moriarty]

All the evidence prosecutors had was circumstantial. What they really wanted was the testimony of this woman, Vanessa Bowles, whom they suspected was Matt's lover before Carrie died. How important is Vanessa Bowles to this case?

[Linda Doolin]

She's key.

[Erin Moriarty]

Key because prosecutors believed she knew some of Matt's secrets. So far, Vanessa has had little to say to law enforcement.

[Linda Doolin]

I don't mind talking to y'all, but this is, you know, taking time out of my schedule.

[Erin Moriarty]

The only thing she admitted was that she dated Matt and only after Carrie died.

[Linda Doolin]

After. After? Yes, after. After his wife passed away. Okay. Okay. Because I didn't think there was anything wrong. Okay.

[Erin Moriarty]

Did you believe her?

[Linda Doolin]

No.

[Erin Moriarty]

Prosecutors had the phone records and a jewelry store clerk who saw Matt and Vanessa checking out wedding rings just weeks after Carrie died.

[Linda Doolin]

I wanted a shot at her real bad.

[Erin Moriarty]

Working with prosecutors was Abdin Rodriguez, a savvy investigator with a reputation for convincing the most reluctant witnesses to talk.

[Linda Doolin]

That's one of my specialties.

[Erin Moriarty]

Rodriguez carefully Studied Vanessa's interview.

[Linda Doolin]

Did you start to feel like he was kind of pursuing you? A little bit. I didn't really want to think that because he seemed happily married. I could tell she was lying. There was information there, and I could tell that she had. But she didn't want to give it up.

[Erin Moriarty]

And for good reason. Rodriguez knew Vanessa had everything to lose if she admitted knowing anything about the crime.

[Linda Doolin]

Why don't you have then talk to Matt Baker? You know, I said, we're going to have to break her. Matt isn't talking with us anymore because she's the one that knows exactly what took place here.

[Erin Moriarty]

But after interviewing her, Vanessa was still holding back. So the prosecution gambled and subpoenaed her to testify before the grand jury. Was that a little risky?

[Linda Doolin]

We didn't have anything to lose.

[Erin Moriarty]

Crawford Long gave Vanessa immunity, promising not to use her testimony against her. Abdin Rodriguez added a warning.

[Linda Doolin]

I know what you did. I know what you know. And I said, you better tell the truth, or that's because I'm gonna be sitting there. And if you perjure yourself, we will turn around and charge you with it.

[Erin Moriarty]

But on the stand, Vanessa stuck with her story until this question.

[Linda Doolin]

I said, did Matt ever tell you anything about Carrie's death? And she said, yes. He said, I killed her for you. My jaw probably dropped down on my chest.

[Erin Moriarty]

Matt even told Vanessa how he did it.

[Linda Doolin]

He told her that he had smothered her.

[Erin Moriarty]

Nearly three years after Kerry's death, Crawford Long had all the proof he needed to finally indict Matt Baker.

[Linda Doolin]

Oh, my gosh.

[Erin Moriarty]

It was unbelievable news for Linda Doolin.

[Linda Doolin]

I remember just falling to my knees, and I was crying, and I was overwhelmed.

[Erin Moriarty]

In March 2009, Matt Baker was rearrested and charged with Carrie's murder.

[Linda Doolin]

How do you wish to plead? Not guilty.

[Erin Moriarty]

And the state star witness, Vanessa Bowles.

[Linda Doolin]

I don't think she stole everything. I know. I don't mean there's still more. All right. The stakes are so high. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. This is what we had been working for. The criminal trial.

[Erin Moriarty]

Nearly four years after claiming he found his wife dead.

[Linda Doolin]

Kerry's last day of life was on Friday, April 7, 2006.

[Erin Moriarty]

Matt Baker is now on trial for murder.

[Linda Doolin]

You'll hear Matt Baker say his wife has just committed suicide, that he's found a note. But Matt has a variety of stories about what happened that night. Matt was a dangerous man. He had to be stopped before he hurt someone else.

[Erin Moriarty]

Carrie's mother, Linda, is surrounded by her family to me, he looked smug.

[Linda Doolin]

He looked like he's going to get away with this. You'll hear him repeatedly and consistently say he never had an affair with Vanessa Bowles. You're going to hear from Vanessa Bowles. You're going to see her.

[Erin Moriarty]

Assistant District Attorney Susan Schaefer promises the jury that they will meet the other woman.

[Linda Doolin]

She's going to tell you how Matt brought her into their marital bed while.

[Erin Moriarty]

Carrie was still alive. Matt has always denied that affair. So no one in the courtroom was quite prepared for what his defense attorney, guy James Gray, had to say.

[Linda Doolin]

Matt Biker was in fact having an affair. I got fooled. Got fooled by Matt Baker.

[Erin Moriarty]

When did you realize that Matt was lying about his involvement with Vanessa Bowles?

[Linda Doolin]

Roughly a month before the trial. Something like that.

[Erin Moriarty]

How tough was that guy?

[Linda Doolin]

For me, pretty tough. Both of them lied to the families, both of them lied to the cops, and both of them lied to try to cover up this affair.

[Erin Moriarty]

That doesn't mean Gray says that Matt killed his wife instead. Gray goes on the attack and tells the jury that Carrie was in a precarious emotional state at the time of her death.

[Linda Doolin]

She took a mixture of medicine. I was trying to steel myself for the stories they were going to spin about Carrie. She used sleeping pills on a regular basis. She wasn't there to defend herself. And that broke my heart.

[Erin Moriarty]

Gray also zeroes in on the lack of evidence.

[Linda Doolin]

You've got no physical evidence. You will see a lot of suspicion. You've got no cause of death. You will see a lot of theory. You can't even be really certain that it was a murder. Was it a suicide? Was it a murder? I'd describe it as the most difficult case I've ever prosecuted.

[Erin Moriarty]

Assistant DA Crawford Long expects to get help from a surprising witness.

[Linda Doolin]

It's all the truth. Everything that is from me is the truth.

[Erin Moriarty]

Matt Baker himself. Matt was unusually talkative in the years before his trial. You're not nervous about talking. If it ever goes to trial, something you might say here could be used against you.

[Linda Doolin]

And if it is, then you deal with it at the time.

[Erin Moriarty]

And that time is now. Matt's contradictions and lies are coming back to haunt him. She was awake, correct? She was talking. She said goodbye to you?

[Linda Doolin]

When I left, she was asleep.

[Erin Moriarty]

While a defendant can't be forced to testify, everything Matt said already can be used against him at trial. There are interviews with 48 hours. Did you have an affair with Vanessa?

[Linda Doolin]

Oh, no, I did not.

[Erin Moriarty]

Civil depositions.

[Linda Doolin]

I proceed to talk to 911 operator as I put her clothes on her.

[Erin Moriarty]

And his statement to police.

[Linda Doolin]

I knew she was depressed. I knew she was down.

[Erin Moriarty]

Matt's claim that Carrie was a despondent, dysfunctional parent is disputed by witness. To me, she never seemed better after witness.

[Linda Doolin]

To me, she seemed excited.

[Erin Moriarty]

Even her grief counselor.

[Linda Doolin]

You did not feel that she was suicidal, is that right? That's right. Okay. State will call Linda Dealing. You solemnly swear the testimony you've given us may.

[Erin Moriarty]

Three days into the trial, Carrie's mom, Linda Doolin, finally comes face to face with a man she is convinced killed her daughter.

[Linda Doolin]

I am. I'm sorry. Mother of Carrie, you need to take a minute? No, I'm okay. I apologize. I had this inner dialogue with myself, telling myself to get it together.

[Erin Moriarty]

Linda testifies that that after her daughter died, Carrie's grief counselor told her that Carrie had found crushed pills in Matt's briefcase. Kerry feared he was going to harm her. Linda later confronted Matt.

[Linda Doolin]

He told me that clearly some youth had found his briefcase and spit the pills in there so that they wouldn't have to take them. And that he reported this to security.

[Erin Moriarty]

Security at the youth center where Matt worked.

[Linda Doolin]

Were you able to make any determination that it was reported? It was not reported.

[Erin Moriarty]

And there's Matt's claim that in the time it took paramedics to arrive, around four minutes, he managed to dress Carrie in her shirt and panties.

[Linda Doolin]

No, no, no. She's not breathing at all. No pulse or anything.

[Erin Moriarty]

Get her to the floor and perform CPR.

[Linda Doolin]

You're going to do it fast and.

[Erin Moriarty]

Hard, 400 times, all while cradling the phone on his shoulder. Do you believe that he is moving her at all while he's on that 911 call?

[Linda Doolin]

I don't even think he's in the room.

[Erin Moriarty]

Pictures taken the night of Kerry's death also contradict Matt's story.

[Linda Doolin]

Would you draw where she was on the bed?

[Erin Moriarty]

He told investigators that he found Carrie's body with both arms separate, stretched out flat on the bed.

[Linda Doolin]

He actually drew a diagram of how he claimed her body to be on her back, slightly at an angle. Slightly at an angle. There's no way.

[Erin Moriarty]

No way. The proof. Crime scene photos, which show an uneven pooling of blood or lividity in Carrie's arms. The fact there was more lividity on her left arm as opposed to her right, said what?

[Linda Doolin]

It said that that arm was lower than the rest of her body. Blood sinks to the lowest point. So either her head was on the other side of the bed with her left arm hanging off, or her head had to be at the foot of the bed with her left arm hanging off. Neither of which was what he described and diagrammed.

[Erin Moriarty]

And then there are those computer searches. Matt visited online pharmacies searching for the sleeping pill. Ambien is your business, your Internet business.

[Linda Doolin]

A library or a store. We're not in the information business. It's purely a commercial business.

[Erin Moriarty]

This witness who flew in from Spain says that pharmacy has one purpose.

[Linda Doolin]

The number one reason why you find yourself in this situation is because you want to buy something.

[Erin Moriarty]

He says Matt attempted to buy a generic form of Ambien and placed it in his online shopping cart. But when cross examined by defense attorney.

[Linda Doolin]

Gray, they went through the process of looking at it, but it was aborted. And no purchase of Ambien was made, correct? Yes. No further question.

[Erin Moriarty]

And there's no evidence that he bought Ambien anywhere else or that he forced Carrie to take that or any other drug.

[Linda Doolin]

If there is not clear cut proof, then we don't convict. You solemnly swear the testimony you give in this matter to be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.

[Erin Moriarty]

But the defense's biggest challenge is yet to come.

[Linda Doolin]

I do.

[Erin Moriarty]

When the state star witness takes the stand.

[Linda Doolin]

We had no knowledge of what she would say until she testified in the courtroom. You really need to turn yourself in or I'm going to tell what you did. And he said, you better not do that. This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. It's tax season and we're all a bit tired of numbers, but here's one you need to hear. $16.5 billion. That's how much the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud last year. Now here's a good number. 100 million. That's how many data points Lifelock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed. Save up to 40% your first [e-mail] podcast terms apply. Imagine if you could ask someone anything you wanted about their finances. How much do you make? Who paid for that fancy dinner? What did your house actually cost? On every episode of what We Spend, a different guest opens up their wallets, opens up their lives, really, and tells us all about their finances. For one week, they tell us everything they spend their money on. My son slammed like $6 worth of blueberries in five minutes. This is a podcast about all the ways money comes into our lives and then leaves again. Which, of course, we all have a lot of feelings about. I really want these things. I want to own a house.

[Erin Moriarty]

I want to have a child.

[Linda Doolin]

But this morning I really wanted a coffee. Because whatever you are buying or not buying or saving or spending at the end of the day, money is always about more than your balance. I'm Courtney Harrell and this is what we spend, listen to and follow what we spend. An Odyssey original podcast available now wherever you get your podcasts. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] this witness is a pretty woman. Could you please state your name for the record? Yes, it's Vanessa Bowles. She obviously loved the attention. I was raised strict southern Baptist. She was a mistress of a preacher. Now you're not saying that at that time you were pure as the driven snow, right? Oh no, that's not good anywhere around here. That's really not good.

[Erin Moriarty]

Four days into Matt Baker's trial, the moment everyone has been waiting for.

[Linda Doolin]

For the first time, we were going to hear exactly what happened on the stand.

[Erin Moriarty]

The prosecution's star witness, the self confident, almost smug 27 year old teacher, Vanessa Bowles. Were you worried the jury might really dislike her?

[Linda Doolin]

Oh, yeah, we were very aware of that problem going in.

[Erin Moriarty]

Assistant DA Susan Schaefer has another problem with the witness.

[Linda Doolin]

There was a lot available for attack by the defense. Did you tell the truth about the affair? No, I didn't admit to it.

[Erin Moriarty]

For years, Vanessa Bowles lied to everyone about her relationship with Matt Baker. The jury might just dismiss her as a liar.

[Linda Doolin]

Sure, I completely denied everything.

[Erin Moriarty]

But you were willing to go with this?

[Linda Doolin]

We believed that this was in fact the true story. One time I was sitting by myself in the church.

[Erin Moriarty]

Vanessa begins by telling the jury how she met Matt at church in the fall of 2005.

[Linda Doolin]

He came in and he just sat down, started talking to me and said, whoever finds you is going to be a lucky man.

[Erin Moriarty]

Vanessa was a single mom going through a divorce.

[Linda Doolin]

He said that, you know, he'd counseled people with divorce before. He said he's lost a child and God could get you through anything.

[Erin Moriarty]

She says Matt often complained about Carrie.

[Linda Doolin]

His wife was so depressed. He said she was a horrible mother, a horrible wife. They didn't have sex anymore. And at the time, were you buying into what he was telling you about Carrie? I was buying into everything.

[Erin Moriarty]

In early March 2006, Matt invited Vanessa to continue counseling at his house.

[Linda Doolin]

He asked if he could hold my hands to pray, and he did. Then afterwards, he started to kiss me. Then he just took my hand and led me to the bedroom.

[Erin Moriarty]

It was the first time, she says, they had sex.

[Linda Doolin]

I was extremely remorseful. I couldn't believe what just happened.

[Erin Moriarty]

But still, the affair continued, and so did Matt's bitterness towards his wife.

[Linda Doolin]

He referred to her as a fat bitch, said that he wanted her out of his life.

[Erin Moriarty]

Just a few weeks later, Carrie was dead. Within days, Vanessa says Matt told her exactly how he did it.

[Linda Doolin]

He said, I'm going to tell you what happened that night one time. Then he said, I never want to talk about it again.

[Erin Moriarty]

Under the guise of a romantic evening, Matt gave Carrie a mix of wine coolers and pills he said were sex stimulants.

[Linda Doolin]

He said he handcuffed her to the bed, started kissing her and touching her all over until she fell asleep.

[Erin Moriarty]

But Vanessa says Matt had filled the capsules with crushed Ambien to knock his wife out.

[Linda Doolin]

He said he kissed her on the forehead and either said, give Cassidy a hug for me or Give Cassidy a kiss for me. Then he said he got the pillow and put it over her face.

[Erin Moriarty]

Matt thought Kerry was dead. Vanessa says, so he was startled when Carrie suddenly gasped for air.

[Linda Doolin]

He said, oh. And then he said he put the pillow on her face. But then he said he did this with his hand where her nose was so he would be sure to suffocate her. I know what my child was screaming inside of her head. She was screaming out for her babies. I know that. I know that.

[Erin Moriarty]

Even more devastating for Linda Doolin, her daughter didn't have to die. Vanessa admits she knew Matt was plotting to kill Carrie.

[Linda Doolin]

He talked about maybe putting something in a milkshake, making it look like she'd hung herself, maybe doing a drive by shooting, make it look like she overdosed on sleeping pills, tampering with the brakes of her car.

[Erin Moriarty]

Vanessa even knew the day Matt intended to murder his wife. April 7, 2006.

[Linda Doolin]

And you didn't report that to anybody? No.

[Erin Moriarty]

Vanessa could have saved your daughter.

[Linda Doolin]

Yes, I know it.

[Erin Moriarty]

She knew what day your daughter was going to die.

[Linda Doolin]

I know.

[Erin Moriarty]

And she never told anybody.

[Linda Doolin]

I know.

[Erin Moriarty]

Two weeks later, a smiling Vanessa Bulls was by Matt's side, helping to chaperone Kenzie's 10th birthday party.

[Linda Doolin]

Has it not occurred to you that if he'd killed one wife, he might kill another? I thought he would, but he promised me that he would be so happy that he would never do that.

[Erin Moriarty]

She continued dating him and kept her mouth shut.

[Linda Doolin]

Not only had I known about this and not done the right thing, in truth, who would believe me? He was a preacher, and so I felt like I was stuck.

[Erin Moriarty]

And even after she broke up with Matt months later, when police began looking into Kerry's death, he started saying, I.

[Linda Doolin]

Killed my wife for you, and now you're leaving.

[Erin Moriarty]

Vanessa says she was afraid to talk at that point.

[Linda Doolin]

I was worried that he would come after me and put a bullet in my head. To be blunt, if what she said was the truth, it was pretty dramatic and pretty damning.

[Erin Moriarty]

But Matt Baker's lawyer guy James Gray, says Vanessa is a liar, pure and simple.

[Linda Doolin]

I don't believe much of what she said.

[Erin Moriarty]

And when it's his turn to cross examine Vanessa, Mr. Gray, Gray attacks her credibility.

[Linda Doolin]

Was that statement true or not true? It was absolutely false. I was untruthful. I was still keeping that part in. I'm pretty sure I denied that completely.

[Erin Moriarty]

Isn't it possible that Vanessa Bowles is finally telling the truth?

[Linda Doolin]

Possible, sure. Not very likely, though. Mr. Gray, call your first witness.

[Erin Moriarty]

When the defense presents its case, Gray only calls one witness, A forensic expert who speculates that traces of DNA found on the suit suicide note might be Carrie's.

[Linda Doolin]

Out of all of the people that you tested, which one had the highest probability of a touch? Carrie Baker appears to have the highest number. Nothing further.

[Erin Moriarty]

Judge Gray hopes this will create doubt in the minds of the jurors.

[Linda Doolin]

If the primary source of DNA on that piece of paper was Carrie Baker's, then she must have taken a her own life. It's now in the hands of the jury. The jury started deliberating this afternoon. I felt we had proven our case. Right now we're waiting for the jury to return a verdict. I was concerned how the jury would feel about Manasseh.

[Erin Moriarty]

Seven women and five men now deciding.

[Linda Doolin]

If the former preacher is guilty of killing his wife.

[Erin Moriarty]

As they deliberate into the night.

[Linda Doolin]

We have a note from the jurors.

[Erin Moriarty]

Have a series of questions for the judge.

[Linda Doolin]

Is it possible for us to see Matt Baker's complete deposition video? It made me very, very nervous. We received another note from the jury. We were concerned. Do we have to find guilt by use of drugs and suffocating? It was frightening. Can we have a transcript of Vanessa Bull's testimony, please. You know, it may be that they can't figure it out. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save, and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money. With guardrails in place. Try Greenlight Risk free [e-mail] Spotify.

[Erin Moriarty]

As.

[Linda Doolin]

The hours went on, I became more nervous. I went off by myself and just prayed a lot. Oh, my gosh. What if. What if they don't convict him? What do you do? You're always nervous until they come back in. There's no such thing as a slam.

[Erin Moriarty]

Dunk, especially in this case after prosecutors lost their chance to put Matt Baker on the hot seat.

[Linda Doolin]

It's the only case I've ever tried that I didn't put my client on the stand.

[Erin Moriarty]

Defense attorney Guy James Gray couldn't risk it, he says, and for good reason.

[Linda Doolin]

They had a trap.

[Erin Moriarty]

You know the trap. This fireman's dummy at just about Carrie's weight when she died. This is very close to what Matt faced trying to move Carrie.

[Linda Doolin]

Yes, quite close.

[Erin Moriarty]

The prosecution's plan to have Matt Baker demonstrate in front of the jury what he claims he did after he found his wife dead and naked in their bed.

[Linda Doolin]

911. Do you have an emergency? When I'm on the phone with the operator, I'm putting her clothes on her and taking her off the bed.

[Erin Moriarty]

Phone to his shoulder. Her lips are blue, Hands are cold. Dressing her without sounding out of breath.

[Linda Doolin]

No, no, no. She's not breathing at all. No pulse or anything. All right.

[Erin Moriarty]

Okay. Once he says that he has her dressed.

[Linda Doolin]

Okay, put her on the floor. Correct.

[Erin Moriarty]

He has to move. How did you get her off the bed?

[Linda Doolin]

I put my hands under her shoulders and pulled her.

[Erin Moriarty]

He moved her.

[Linda Doolin]

There's a reason that the term dead weight is used.

[Erin Moriarty]

I'm gonna need your help. And all this is happening in what period of time?

[Linda Doolin]

Oh, I measured it at a little less than 90 seconds. I don't know that Houdini could have done that. And I didn't think he could either.

[Erin Moriarty]

Because Matt didn't testify, the jury never got to see him do the demonstration. And as the hours ticked by, it seems like Gray made a wise call keeping Matt off the stand.

[Linda Doolin]

Generally, the longer the time it's better for the defendant.

[Erin Moriarty]

More than seven hours. Go.

[Linda Doolin]

All right, bring in the jury.

[Erin Moriarty]

And finally, jurors reach a verdict.

[Linda Doolin]

We, the jury, find the defendant, Matt D. Baker, guilty of the offense of murder.

[Erin Moriarty]

Guilty of first degree murder.

[Linda Doolin]

I felt absolute relief that Matt Baker would never again be in a position to take a life or destroy life.

[Erin Moriarty]

What did you tell your client?

[Linda Doolin]

Since the day he walked in my office and told me he was lying, I talked to him only for strict legal necessities, and I had no other conversations.

[Erin Moriarty]

Incredibly, the attorney who once so believed in his client stopped trusting Matt once he confessed to the affair.

[Linda Doolin]

You cannot be a good lawyer for somebody if you don't believe him. And that's the position I was in.

[Erin Moriarty]

Prior to trial, Gray had asked to be taken off the case.

[Linda Doolin]

I gave him my advice. They needed to go get a different lawyer to handle it. I did not want to be there.

[Erin Moriarty]

But Matt insisted that Gray remain his lawyer.

[Linda Doolin]

The judge made me be there, and they requested that I be there. And I did my duty.

[Erin Moriarty]

Guy, are you sorry you took on this case?

[Linda Doolin]

Oh, yes. I've never in my life been forced to go to trial in a case that I didn't think I was on the right side. Hardest thing I've ever done.

[Erin Moriarty]

Still, Gray says he defended Matt the best he could under the circumstances.

[Linda Doolin]

I still think I did a decent, credible lawyer job, but I had no heart in it.

[Erin Moriarty]

At sentencing, Linda Doolin gets the last word.

[Linda Doolin]

I'm talking to you, Matt, today. Okay? You haven't looked at me in almost four years. Can you look at me today? You murdered the mother of your children. But the most tragic victims, Matt, Kinsey and Grace, those sweet, sweet babies.

[Erin Moriarty]

Matt Baker's sentence, 65 years with the possibility of parole. Are you finally ready to admit that you killed your wife?

[Linda Doolin]

No, Because I didn't. I did not suffocate, did not shove pills down her throat, did not do anything to hurt my wife.

[Erin Moriarty]

You're saying the Vanessa Bulls lied about it all?

[Linda Doolin]

Absolutely.

[Erin Moriarty]

Why would she lie about.

[Linda Doolin]

She thought she was going to be with me, and I walked away from the relationship, and she was upset and mad.

[Erin Moriarty]

How close did Matt Baker come to getting away with Myrtle?

[Linda Doolin]

Incredibly close. If the Dulons hadn't pursued him, he certainly would have.

[Erin Moriarty]

The Doolins ordeal was not over yet. Kenzie and Grace were still living with Matt's parents.

[Linda Doolin]

Any reaction? Matt? They've been taught to hate us. We were portrayed as the. The people who caused their father to go to prison.

[Erin Moriarty]

A year and a half after Matt went to prison. Jim and Linda were back in court seeking custody of their granddaughters.

[Linda Doolin]

The odds were not in our favor.

[Erin Moriarty]

To their surprise, they won.

[Linda Doolin]

This is Grace's room. This is her hangout.

[Erin Moriarty]

Now they say their home is the girls home.

[Linda Doolin]

Grace is 12. She loves the arts and she's in band and she plays the piano. Kinsey will be 17 next week. She is very excited about the prospect of college. She's a hoot to be around. All we want now is for the girls to be teenagers. And we never want them to feel like they have to choose who to love. I live with three women, and the other night they were all laughing and giggling and just having a grand old time. That was a symphony. I see Carrie. I see her every day in her daughters. She would be relishing what we're experiencing. It's not just music. This is family. We call them music legends. To be great, there are sacrifices that need to take place. They call them mom and dad. My mom is literally calling me right now. The global music docuseries returns to Paramount. Nobody can hype the world up like my dad with rare family stories from the children of Lil Wayne, Busta Rhymes, Salt N Pepa, and more. Parents just don't understand. Don't miss the new season of Family Legacy. All episodes now streaming exclusively on Paramount.