Killer Conversation: Rick Valentini aka Bryan Stewart

Summary

48 Hours Podcast Summary: "Killer Conversation: Rick Valentini aka Bryan Stewart"

Released on June 17, 2025, the "48 Hours" episode titled "Killer Conversation: Rick Valentini aka Bryan Stewart" delves deep into the harrowing case of Bryan Stewart, also known by his real name, Rick Valentini. Hosted by CBS News and produced by Judy Ryback, this episode uncovers the intricate layers of deception, manipulation, and tragedy surrounding the murder of 32-year-old Jamie Laity.

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Introduction to the Case

The episode begins by introducing Judy Ryback, a seasoned producer for "48 Hours," who recounts her first assignment in 2011: to interview Bryan Stewart under the condition that he be referred to as Brian. This initial interaction sets the tone for unraveling the complexities of Stewart's deceit.

Notable Quote:

"Our front row seat to this con man's relationship with the truth taught us so much about how the criminal mind works. Things you don't learn in books."
— Judy Ryback [01:57]

Background of Bryan Stewart (Rick Valentini)

Rick Valentini, using the alias Bryan Stewart, orchestrated an elaborate scheme to conceal his true identity. In October 2001, he fled Michigan for Arizona, forging a new birth certificate, Social Security number, and even altering his appearance to appear eight years younger. His motivations stemmed from financial debts, particularly child support obligations, and a desire to escape his past.

Notable Quote:

"The whole point of coming to Arizona was not to be a burden. I wanted to be my own person. I wanted to be free."
— Brian Stewart [11:33]

Relationship with Jamie Laity

Brian Stewart met Jamie Laity, and the two dated for over two years. Jamie, a private individual, eventually allowed Brian to move into her home in Chandler, Arizona. Their relationship appeared stable on the surface, with Jamie financially supporting Brian by covering major expenses and purchasing vehicles for them.

Notable Quote:

"We were going to get married."
— Brian Stewart [17:18]

However, the dynamics shifted dramatically in August 2009 when Jamie lost her job during the financial crisis. Her subsequent struggle to regain employment coincided with increasing tensions within the relationship.

Disappearance and Investigation

On March 17, 2010, Jamie was on her third day at a new job before she vanished. Brian claimed that on the day she disappeared, Jamie was overwhelmed and wanted to quit her job abruptly. Despite initial belief from friends that Jamie might have chosen to disappear voluntarily, inconsistencies in Brian's account raised suspicions.

Notable Quote:

"From 2007 until now, I am the only human being who knows what happened."
— Brian Stewart [04:09]

As the investigation unfolded, alarming evidence surfaced. Detectives found Jamie's wallet, multiple credit cards, and her driver's license fragments at Brian's apartment, alongside her cell phone. Brian's dismissive responses and contradictory statements only deepened suspicions.

The Arrest and Trial

Brian was arrested on charges of forgery and identity theft before a murder case was pursued. Throughout the trial, his fabrications became increasingly evident. Despite overwhelming circumstantial evidence, Brian maintained his innocence, claiming Jamie was still alive and that he was merely aiding her disappearance.

Notable Quote:

"She’s still alive. So all this hubbub is a lot of horse crap."
— Brian Stewart [27:53]

The prosecution, led by Juan Martinez, relentlessly debunked Brian's narratives, highlighting the lack of credible evidence supporting his claims. His calculated demeanor and seamless blend of truth and lies made it challenging for even seasoned reporters to navigate his testimonies.

Judy Ryback's Interview Experience

Judy Ryback shares her firsthand experience interviewing Brian, revealing his manipulative tactics and the emotional toll it took on her. Brian's ability to remain calm and persuasive, even when confronted with incriminating evidence, exemplifies his deceptive prowess.

Notable Quote:

"He had already done it on the witness stand, too."
— Judy Ryback [22:19]

Resolution and Aftermath

Six and a half years after Jamie's disappearance, her remains were discovered, providing closure to her grieving family. The revelation reaffirmed Brian's culpability, allowing Jamie's parents to finally mourn their loss properly without the lingering pain of uncertainty.

Notable Quote:

"They can mourn her properly."
— Judy Ryback [40:21]

Lessons Learned

The episode emphasizes the importance of vigilance in relationships and the need to heed warning signs when a loved one becomes distant or behaves erratically. It serves as a poignant reminder to stay connected with those we care about, ensuring that sudden changes in behavior are addressed promptly.

Notable Quote:

"This is a reminder to all of us to stay in touch with the people we care about."
— Judy Ryback [41:31]

Conclusion

"Killer Conversation: Rick Valentini aka Bryan Stewart" offers a comprehensive exploration of a tragic crime fueled by deceit and manipulation. Through meticulous reporting and gripping interviews, "48 Hours" sheds light on the dark facets of the human psyche, urging listeners to remain vigilant and compassionate in their interpersonal relationships.

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This summary encapsulates the critical elements of the "48 Hours" episode, providing a thorough overview for those unfamiliar with the original podcast. It highlights the intricate details of Brian Stewart's fraudulent actions, the subsequent investigation, and the profound impact on the victims' families.

Transcript

[Erin Moriarty]

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[Brian Stewart]

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[Erin Moriarty]

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[Brian Stewart]

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[Judy Ryback]

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[Rick Valentini]

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[Judy Ryback]

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[Rick Valentini]

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[Judy Ryback]

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[Rick Valentini]

Sold.

[Brian Stewart]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch.

[Erin Moriarty]

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[Judy Ryback]

Did you kill Jamie?

[Brian Stewart]

No.

[Judy Ryback]

Did you two fight that night? Were you angry with her?

[Brian Stewart]

No. I've never killed anybody in my life. Not ever.

[Rick Valentini]

Meet Brian Stewart, also known as Rick Valentini. He was my first killer. What do I mean by that? Well, my name is Judy Ryback and I'm a longtime 48 Hours producer. Back in 2011, my very first assignment for 48 Hours was to convince the man with two names to do an interview with Aaron Moriarty. He agreed under one condition. That we only call him Brian.

[Judy Ryback]

You're not really Brian Stewart at all, are you?

[Brian Stewart]

To me I am.

[Judy Ryback]

But not legally, are you?

[Brian Stewart]

Well, legally I'm not anything. That's the problem.

[Judy Ryback]

Well, you're Rick Valentini.

[Rick Valentini]

His legal name was Rick, but we all agreed to call him Brian because he had just been convicted of the second degree murder of his 32 year old girlfriend, Jamie Laity. And we wanted to hear his story, even though we knew it was mostly fiction. Actually, he had run away from a life in Michigan. He changed his name illegally, tricked Jamie into believing him and killed her. Our front row seat to this con man's relationship with the truth taught us so much about how the criminal mind works. Things you don't learn in books. I'm excited to be producing and hosting 48 hours killer conversation. And even more excited that Erin Moriarty is here to talk about her masterclass of an interview with my first killer. But definitely not hers. Brian Stewart. Welcome, Erin. Thank you so much for being here today. I so appreciate it. You are the hardest working woman in television, and I know you're taking this time out to be with us is a real gift.

[Judy Ryback]

But it's great, Judy, that you're doing killer conversations.

[Rick Valentini]

So tell me how you prepare for these interviews, because I know you want to get at the truth, but that's not easy, right?

[Judy Ryback]

No, because realize that the defendant in this case probably knows the case better than anybody, if they were there or not there, but they know the facts of the case. So you have to go in so prepared. So I think my goal. I think your goal, too, when you talk to someone, is to talk with them after, really, at the end of the process, after we've read every court document, spoken to everybody involved with the case. That's ideal. Because otherwise you can't. You don't know whether that person's telling you the truth or not.

[Rick Valentini]

Right, right. And we do really do our homework going into these things.

[Judy Ryback]

You have to.

[Rick Valentini]

Yeah. So you asked Brian, Rick, whatever his name is, why he agreed to sit down with you, and this is what he had to say.

[Judy Ryback]

Why are you talking to us today?

[Brian Stewart]

Um, I guess to put out the truth, you know, I mean, it really sounds. I don't know how it sounds, but frankly speaking, from 2007 until now, I am the only human being who knows what happened. I'm the only human being who knows why things happened when they happened.

[Judy Ryback]

Well, he's telling the truth on one thing. He's the only living person who knows what happened. Because sadly, at the time we were doing this interview, Jamie was still missing. And so there was no one to contradict what he said.

[Rick Valentini]

Right, Right. He had a blank canvas to tell his story. Right. So let's talk about the backstory of this case. In 2010, Jamie was 32 years old. She went missing from her home in Chandler, Arizona. Police couldn't find her or. Or her body. Some people thought she might have picked up and just disappeared, taken off. But once police got involved, almost everyone believed that she was dead. Right, Right.

[Judy Ryback]

And one of the sad parts of this story is Jamie was a very private person. She didn't share a lot, even with her close friends. So when she first disappeared, nobody really thought that much about it. But then after a few weeks, then they started getting worried. And once it was clear that she was missing, the most obvious person of interest was, of course, Brian. When the police caught up with him, he was driving her car, he had her IDs, and at trial, the 42 year old got 54 years behind bars for murder and for fraud.

[Rick Valentini]

Right. It's really remarkable. So you do work on a lot of wrongful convictions. How do you know when someone, someone is lying to you?

[Judy Ryback]

Well, some people are obvious. They really are. I just interviewed an individual last year who, when he talked to me, he contradicted the evidence. I mean, you know, and he knew it. He didn't even seem to be bothered. But there are other people. Remember, these individuals who are accused of a crime know the case better than anyone, know the details better than anyone, and sometimes can twist it and make you believe.

[Rick Valentini]

Right. Although in this case it was pretty obvious.

[Judy Ryback]

Yes, yes, it was. But also because he contradicted the evidence as well, so.

[Rick Valentini]

Right, right. The circumstantial evidence was really strong.

[Judy Ryback]

You yourself, you know, I wasn't the only one. I talked to him. After you had talked to him, you spent hours on the phone with him and in person, did you at first think he was telling the truth or was there a time when you realized this guy's lying?

[Rick Valentini]

So I went into this having already read, you know, everything that was available to me. And I had spoken to the cops and the prosecutor, so I kind of knew what the story was. But yeah, I sent him a letter and. Cause that's what we have to do. We have to send them a letter, set up an account for them to call us. And he slowly started calling me. And you know, at first it was very surface conversation. And then we started digging into his case a little bit more and I spent so many hours. I think he called me every day for a while because he was bored, right? He was bored and he was testing me. And then I went to Phoenix to sit through his entire trial. And I would visit him once a week. Arpaio, Sheriff Arpaio would let me visit him once a week. And I remember the first time I went to visit him, they left me in a room with him. I mean, he was shackled and there was someone in the room with us, but I was in there for four hours with him and he just told his whole story. And I remember thinking, oh, I have to go back to the hotel and make notes so I don't forget anything. But then every week I heard the same thing over and over and over again. So at some point, I mean, without actually rolling my eyes back in my head, my eyes were rolling back in my head.

[Judy Ryback]

Kind of sad that someone that smart and who could have had a decent life would run cons the way he did. He was a very, very troubled person.

[Rick Valentini]

Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about, you know, who he was before this.

[Judy Ryback]

Well, we know now that he had. This was actually a surprising detail, that he had had three ex wives, I believe. Cause he was. He seemed pretty young to me, you know, in his 40s. Turned out he was a little older than what he said he was. But three ex wives. And what one of his ex wives said was that he was just running away from paying the debt he had for child support. But what I think is, I mean, he was really running not just from the fact he owed money, but from his life. Because I interviewed one of his daughters and it was a very sad conversation. She never heard from him. He had no interest in her life. So he was running away from everything in Michigan. Debt. And the people had been in his life in Michigan.

[Rick Valentini]

Right. He wanted to start over. So it wasn't easy for Rick to change his name to Brian illegally. He literally had to make a whole new person. But he makes it sound like it was no big deal.

[Judy Ryback]

How long does it take to change your identity? Um, takes a while, doesn't it?

[Brian Stewart]

Year, year and a half? Yeah. So, I mean, it depends.

[Judy Ryback]

But why not, why not change your name legally? Just do it legally? Why go to the trouble of forging a birth certificate?

[Brian Stewart]

Well, it was my understanding that to change your name legally would take years.

[Rick Valentini]

That's actually not true. It's not easy, but it doesn't take years. In Michigan and Arizona, it would have only taken four to six months. So what he did was much harder.

[Judy Ryback]

So he changed his identity. Post 9 11, when authorities were really trying to clamp down on fake IDs, and they were really worried about airport security, he used somebody else's Social Security number, forged a new birth certificate, made himself eight years younger. I wish I could do the same thing. Right.

[Erin Moriarty]

Yes.

[Judy Ryback]

He took in a roommate. I hope people can see I'm using quotation marks as air quotation marks. Brian Stewart. And about a year later, Brian Stewart, who shared the same address as Rick, had a credit score, a birth certificate, and other ID and credit cards. And so it wasn't too tough for Rick Valentini to slip into the Persona.

[Rick Valentini]

Right. So in October 2001, Rick Valentini disappeared from Michigan and headed to Arizona.

[Brian Stewart]

When I left Michigan, driving from Michigan to Arizona, that's all I did. Brian Stewart. Brian Stewart. Brian Stewart. Brian Stewart. I was always saying, listening for Brian Stewart. Brian Stewart. Because it's a new name. The whole point of coming to Arizona was not to be a Burden. I wanted to be my own person. I wanted to be free. I wanted to, at some point, to go back to my family on my terms, to say, it doesn't matter what happened in the past. It doesn't matter the mistakes that were made or all this. Look, I'm successful and I've done it, and I'm happy, and I found love and joy in my life, and I actually help people and, you know, and I love doing what I do.

[Rick Valentini]

So the scary thing is that anyone who did a background check on Bryan Stewart found nothing. He was clean. Right. So he actually got a job.

[Judy Ryback]

Yeah, he was a personal trainer at Gold's Gym in Scottsdale. And I guess that's what he meant when he says that he was helping people and that he loved it and he was doing well.

[Rick Valentini]

Right, Right. And again, the sad thing is, okay, so you're starting over again, and he still couldn't get it right. Right. He still messed it up. And then he got really cocky and he decided to pretend to be a graduate of the University of Michigan.

[Judy Ryback]

Yeah, but that fits in. Remember when he said that he could be really successful going to the University of Michigan? Now, remember, I went to Ohio State, so this is very hard for me to say, but that going to the University of Mich Shows that you are a smart person. It's hard to get in there. It's a great school. So having that pretending to be a graduate of University of Michigan burnished his image, made him look like this smart, accomplished guy. And he was from Michigan, and growing up, he loved University of Michigan. And so it wasn't hard to pull that off.

[Rick Valentini]

Right. Cause he's mixing truth and lies together. Right.

[Judy Ryback]

Well, that's what all good liars do. There's always something. We find that all the time.

[Rick Valentini]

What do you think Jamie saw in Bryan Stewart?

[Judy Ryback]

Well, you know, if we're gonna be impartial, I think there's a quirkiness, a kind of a charming personality in a quirky way. With Brian, I think that she was lonely. She didn't have family or friends in Arizona, and so he provided companionship, and he's kind of fun to be with. She had a tough relationship with her parents. They wanted her to be a doctor, and she didn't live up to that. So I think she felt she disappointed them. So she wasn't as close with her parents. So here she is on her own. And, you know, you've got this guy who went to University of Michigan. They have. That's what he says. So she thinks she has something in common. And you know, they're cheering together during all the games. It makes me sad to even think about it.

[Rick Valentini]

So sad. Yeah. We called this hour the stranger beside me. And it really was. He was the stranger beside her. So by the time Jamie disappeared, she and Brian were so isolated from. From just about everyone that it took months for anyone to even notice that she was gone.

[Erin Moriarty]

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[Erin Moriarty]

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[Rick Valentini]

Brian and Jamie dated for a little over two years. And Brian says that sometime in the summer of 2008, Jamie let him move into her house.

[Judy Ryback]

In an email, Jamie described you as her trophy boyfriend. And you know, she was the one who was spending all the money. Did that bother you?

[Brian Stewart]

No. Cause I never knew that she said that.

[Judy Ryback]

Did she pay most of the bills?

[Brian Stewart]

Most of the big ones, yeah.

[Judy Ryback]

She bought two cars.

[Brian Stewart]

Right.

[Judy Ryback]

And the other car you drove?

[Brian Stewart]

Right. She bought a truck, an suv.

[Judy Ryback]

So she made a lot more money than you did?

[Brian Stewart]

Sure.

[Judy Ryback]

So was that hard? You were pretty dependent on her financially. Was that tough?

[Brian Stewart]

No, I didn't really feel that way. I just felt like it was definitely easier to live with her. And it was easier that way because we still looked upon our future as being together. We were going to get married.

[Rick Valentini]

Do you think they were going to get married?

[Judy Ryback]

No. No. When he said it was easier living with her, that's what he meant. You know, he was having all his bills paid and he could do whatever he wanted.

[Rick Valentini]

So in August 2009, Jamie lost her job, the real estate market crashed, the financial Crisis hit her hard. What do you think was going on in that relationship at that point?

[Judy Ryback]

Well, we don't know, but we know that she was supporting him. I doubt if he was emotionally supportive for her going through something like this. And her joblessness went on for a while, which must have been very difficult for a woman who was used to succeeding and making a lot of money and doing well. She didn't tell her friends, you know, much about how she felt about what was going on. And she was actually out of work for months. She was applying for jobs all over the country. New Jersey, Florida, Denver, Colorado, and eventually she did get a job in Arizona, again in medical sales.

[Rick Valentini]

But on March 17, 2010, it was her third day on the job. Brian claims that he was at Jamie's house when she got home from work.

[Brian Stewart]

I just remember that she come home, she was in scrubs, threw her hands up in the air, totally exasperated. And so it's like, you know, you seem aggravated. What's going on? You know, and she's like, I can't take. I'm not going back there. This. It was absolutely crazy.

[Judy Ryback]

And she's talking about her new job.

[Brian Stewart]

Yeah. And it. And I'm like, wow, okay, well, what happened? What's going on? And she's like, well, you know, it was. You know, I get there, and. And, you know, she's like, I just kind of sort of had a bad feeling.

[Judy Ryback]

That totally contradicts the friend who helped her get that job, who reported she was excited about the job. She finally had a job, you know, Brian, Rick, whatever you want to call him, also said something like, well, there was a creepy guy at the job, and she wanted to get away from him. I don't believe either one of those.

[Rick Valentini]

So he was talking in circles. And you kept trying to bring him back to exactly what happened that night. Tell me what happened that night. And I love this next moment because you were starting to get so frustrated with him, you accidentally or not, called him by his real name.

[Judy Ryback]

Well, remember, that was one of the conditions that I had to call him Brian.

[Rick Valentini]

Right. So he got a little annoyed. Let's listen to this.

[Judy Ryback]

What happened that night, Rick? Brian, what happened that night?

[Brian Stewart]

That was when she came in and asked me to take a week off from work. And I was like, well, when. And she's like, well, in the next day or two, next couple days, I can't do that. What are you talking. What are you talking about? What's going on? And she's like, we need to. We're gonna go to Denver. We're gonna get a house. You know, I've got a job offer up there. You know, it's time to go. I want to go. I want to get out of this state. Well, okay. This is awfully short notice, you know? And then it was, I want to go to Denver. We need to go. We need to find a house, and we're gonna get married. Well, now, wait a second. Now, you and I know the rules here, okay? I'm not getting married to you until I find out what the heck's going on between you and your dad.

[Rick Valentini]

This is where it really gets crazy. So he's taking two truths and using them to lie to you to your face.

[Judy Ryback]

Right. So as we mentioned, she did have a complicated relationship with her parents, and so. And Rick. Bryan. Bryan clearly knew about it and wanted to use that. And then, of course, he used a truth. When she was, as I had mentioned earlier, she was looking for jobs. She was looking in Denver, Colorado, for a job and had hoped to get one, but she did not get that job.

[Rick Valentini]

I just can't get over how he just calmly sits there and makes up these stories to your face. I mean, he had already done it on the witness stand, too. Right? Right.

[Judy Ryback]

But also, it was his entire life. He had lied his entire life. That was the one thing we always heard about him. He's a liar. And sometimes people, like, they think, oh, particularly women, oh, she'll believe me. And so, yeah, his face never changed. Whether he was telling the truth or not, his face is the same.

[Rick Valentini]

Well, that's a good point, because I felt like he was looking at me as a woman, like a dumb woman every time. And so I just kind of let him believe that about me, you know, I was a very good listener. He never asked me a single question. Whenever I talked to him, it was always him running his stories by me. And I just listened. Just listened.

[Judy Ryback]

He probably was trying to figure out what seemed to stick and what didn't.

[Rick Valentini]

Definitely, yes.

[Judy Ryback]

What would work. What seemed to really resonate with you.

[Rick Valentini]

Yeah. Yeah. Can I take a minute to tell you? I don't know if you remember the story, but I was with him once on one of our visits, and I had said to them, please don't leave me in the room with him for four hours again. I said, just give me two hours and then come knock on the door. And I always had to have a guard with me. Right. So this guard kept. Like, he was so bored listening to this guy go on and on. He kept leaning out the door to See if they were coming to save us. And at one point he stepped and the door smacked shut behind him. And without missing a beat. Brian, Rick. Brian says, quick, take off your clothes and get on the table. And I laughed and I said, oh, come on. But like, that's how he was treating me.

[Judy Ryback]

That is the creepiest. I remember this now, but that is one of the creepiest stories. That's what you don't want to happen, right?

[Rick Valentini]

It was so bizarre. Anyway, after a little over two years, he says it was a drama free breakup. I mean, come on. She was leaving and he was taking his things and going. And he says they even slept in the same bed. And he left the next morning for work. Jamie was missing for nearly two and a half months and no one even noticed.

[Judy Ryback]

I think her friend said the same thing, that it did take a while, but then people started noticing that she was not posting or emailing anybody. So, you know, it's a little bit like telephone. Has anybody heard from Jamie? Has anybody heard from Jamie? And so he's realizing that people are gonna start looking at him as well. So he wants to look like another concerned person. Where's Jamie? And so he calls someone and says, look, you know, I'm worried about her. And the other thing I think really plays a part in this. This is so sad. We heard this over and over again from her friends. You know, you don't know somebody who's gonna disappear like this. So it was hard for people to believe that her boyfriend would do away with her. They just didn't believe it. That doesn't happen to people, you know, is what we hear all the time on 48 hours. And we really heard it with this case.

[Rick Valentini]

That's so true. Yeah.

[Judy Ryback]

Well, it's interesting that as soon as the police, you know, they started looking because people reported him missing. Her parents reported her missing, and they do track him down and he's driving her car. And even they thought he was a little odd. So that's the reason why they wanted to check him out.

[Rick Valentini]

Police arrested him on a warrant for driving on a suspended license and took him in for questioning. And they held him on charges of forgery and identity theft until they could make a case for murder. When they asked him where Jamie was, this is what he told detectives.

[Brian Stewart]

So Thursday morning, I'm up at 2:30, take my shower, eat breakfast, and I'm out the door by 3:45. That's the last I saw her.

[Erin Moriarty]

Okay.

[Brian Stewart]

I got home around noon. There were two of the big suitcases missing. There Was a carry on missing and she was gone.

[Rick Valentini]

Detectives searched Jamie's home and her suitcases were still there. The car that she drove was also there, and so was her passport. But her wallet and credit cards and driver's license were missing. Then with Brian in custody, they got a warrant to search his apartment and found some really alarming evidence.

[Judy Ryback]

What I probably will never forget the rest of my life. Cause it's so disturbing. Is when they went to the apartment he had. He had rented right before, quote, unquote, you know, she disappeared. They found her wallet and several. Several of her credit cards were on the desk. And what was saddest to me was in an envelope they found all these little cut up pieces of what turned out to be her driver's license.

[Rick Valentini]

Right?

[Judy Ryback]

And you know, her cell phone was also at his apartment. But as usual, you know, Brian is not fazed by this very damaging evidence. And he had an explanation for all of this. And I don't think anyone listening is going to believe it, but this is what he claimed.

[Brian Stewart]

She's still alive. So all this hubbub is a lot of horse crap.

[Judy Ryback]

What do you mean she's still alive? You're saying Jamie is still alive?

[Brian Stewart]

She's still alive.

[Judy Ryback]

How do you know?

[Brian Stewart]

Because until I'm proven differently, I know what her plans were. I know what she wanted to do. I know what she wanted to accomplish, which was leave Arizona and get away from her dad. Now Streaming.

[Judy Ryback]

Hi again, TV's quirkiest crime solver. I'm Elsa. I'm Beth Tasione. I work with the police.

[Erin Moriarty]

It's on the case.

[Judy Ryback]

I like my outlandish theories With a.

[Erin Moriarty]

Heavy dose of evidence and ready to.

[Judy Ryback]

Go toe to toe with a cavalcade of guest stars.

[Brian Stewart]

Are you saying that this is now a murder investigation?

[Rick Valentini]

It's starting to look that way.

[Erin Moriarty]

Don't miss a moment of the critically acclaimed hit elsbeth.

[Judy Ryback]

All episodes now streaming on paramount and return CBS fall. That sounds like fun. Obviously, murder's not fun.

[Erin Moriarty]

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[Judy Ryback]

Are you saying that you helped Jamie change her Identity?

[Brian Stewart]

Yeah, I showed her how to do it.

[Judy Ryback]

So were you saying that you made up the idea that she had a job in Denver?

[Brian Stewart]

No. Uh.

[Rick Valentini]

He'S now totally changing his story. First he's telling you Jamie went to Denver, and now she didn't go to Denver. She just got up and disappeared to get away from her dad, who, as we mentioned before, she did have a complicated relationship with. What is he trying to say?

[Judy Ryback]

He's now saying that she was so tired of her own life that she asked him how he did it. And what's so hard about that is this was, again, this very accomplished woman and very buttoned down. And would she do something like that?

[Rick Valentini]

Right. Do you think she knew that he had changed his identity? Do you think she found out? No.

[Judy Ryback]

Well, she might have found out, right? Something happened that night. So maybe she did find out. Maybe during that time off, she was looking into him without a job. When I say time off, when she wasn't working, she looked into him. Something happened on March 17th.

[Rick Valentini]

So, okay, so he's changing his story. Now, did she go to Denver? Did she disappear? This is what you asked him.

[Judy Ryback]

So did she have that job? Did she take a job in Denver or not?

[Brian Stewart]

I don't know.

[Judy Ryback]

So what name is she operated?

[Brian Stewart]

Oh, I don't know that.

[Judy Ryback]

So what do you mean? If you helped her, wouldn't you know what name?

[Brian Stewart]

Well, you have to understand, I helped her from a general standpoint. I showed her how I did it, okay? Now, there were books, okay? She read the books. She knew they were there. She. She had all of that. Plus she had me. And that was the thing that I told her, is that the real key is you gotta have money, you gotta have cash. Okay?

[Judy Ryback]

She didn't have any cash.

[Brian Stewart]

Oh, she had.

[Judy Ryback]

Well, she didn't have any cash. Buying all her money. She left behind all her credit cards. She left behind all her accounts. Sure. You know, I mean, he wasn't expecting that I would know that. That she had money still sitting in her account. She simply disappeared. And I think what's really important to know is that she didn't have a reason to disappear.

[Rick Valentini]

Right?

[Judy Ryback]

She didn't have a reason. She had a brand new job. She wasn't running from things. She didn't have ex husbands or children she didn't want to pay child support for. There was no reason for her to want to change.

[Rick Valentini]

This next exchange kept me from dating online for many, many years.

[Judy Ryback]

For a decade, you used your credit cards to go on dating sites?

[Brian Stewart]

Mm.

[Judy Ryback]

That's nervy. Isn't it? Yeah, it's pretty nervy and pretty insensitive, too, isn't it? Um, yeah.

[Brian Stewart]

You know, a little. Because. Well, let me. Let me explain.

[Judy Ryback]

You used her credit cards to go on dating sites? To meet other women.

[Brian Stewart]

Well, you know what? Look, Jamie. Jamie was leaving. Jamie had her own life to live.

[Judy Ryback]

So use your own money. Why did you use hers?

[Brian Stewart]

Well, I did, okay? That was the whole point.

[Rick Valentini]

When you asked him what gave him the right to use Jamie's credit cards, he said he was doing it for her. Can you explain that rationale, please?

[Judy Ryback]

Well, I can't really explain it. I could tell you what his thoughts were. I mean, I was so offended by that as a reporter and a woman. The idea that he would claim to me here, she disappeared. She left behind the credit cards. And that he used those credit cards to meet other people was so offensive. But what he claimed was she was still alive. I know nobody will believe me, but this is what he said, that she was still alive and he was giving her cash and leaving it at her house, where she would come in, I guess, in the middle of the night, pick it up, and then disappear again. I mean, who's gonna believe that? But he said it to me just like that was the most normal thing to say.

[Rick Valentini]

Yeah, it's super crazy. So this next exchange feels to me like the final car chase in a movie.

[Judy Ryback]

It seems to me that when you're preparing for trial, if you could have found her, you would have found her with your lawyers. That's all you would have needed, and you wouldn't have gone on trial at all.

[Brian Stewart]

Well, now, okay, just because I could have sent her an email, just because I could have called a number, doesn't mean that she wouldn't have switched it out at that point. Okay? Because.

[Judy Ryback]

But you didn't even try.

[Brian Stewart]

How am I supposed to try?

[Judy Ryback]

She's gone. No one sees her again. March 18th. Jamie's dad, isn't she.

[Brian Stewart]

It's not hard to get new id.

[Judy Ryback]

You said it takes time. You yourself said that, Brian.

[Brian Stewart]

I said it takes time.

[Judy Ryback]

She didn't have that time.

[Brian Stewart]

I said it takes time to create a new Persona. To get the ID Is nothing, right?

[Judy Ryback]

She didn't have the time to create the new Persona.

[Brian Stewart]

Yes, she did. Jamie took $100,000 and what could be three different identifications, and she left the state of Arizona.

[Rick Valentini]

Do you remember how you felt in that moment?

[Judy Ryback]

Well, it's just like, where do you go with that? This is a man. I mean, what was really sad I mean, what. I was trying to make a point there. He's saying she's still alive, and he's on trial for her murder. And if she was still alive, he would have reached out to her and said, save me. Prove please, that I didn't kill you. What you have to be thinking as you're sitting there when you're talking is, he killed her, and he has the nerve to sit there and say she's still alive. It's not only old, it's just incredibly sad and aggravating.

[Rick Valentini]

Yes, very. He was called to the stand, the witness stand, as Rick Wayne Valentini, AKA Brian Stewart. But his lawyer called him Brian. I mean, so crazy. She walked him through his name change and the rest of his story gently. And then the prosecutor, Juan Martinez, took over and pounded him. I mean, I remember the judge, basically outside of the view of the jury, saying, we get it, we get it. You know, so just after he was convicted and prior to his sentencing, he agreed to an interview with you. What do you recall about that day?

[Judy Ryback]

Well, actually, you made me remember all of this. You know, we had amazing access. I've never had that kind of access inside a prison. The day that we were with him, his lawyer came to see him and was shocked to hear that we were there because he had not told her he was talking to the press. That is a nightmare for a defense attorney. I mean, he lied to everyone, including his own lawyer.

[Brian Stewart]

All along.

[Judy Ryback]

You've told a lot of different stories. Sure. And they're contradictory stories.

[Brian Stewart]

Sure.

[Judy Ryback]

I mean, you admit you've lied about things.

[Brian Stewart]

Sure.

[Judy Ryback]

Why should somebody believe you now?

[Brian Stewart]

I'm not. I'm not asking for people to believe me. I'm not, you know, to me, I don't really care what people think.

[Judy Ryback]

I think he does care, but. So have you heard it all from him?

[Rick Valentini]

No. Which is, you know, oddly upsetting. Like, they go away and they never call me again. But the last conversation I had with him, I was at the airport on my way home after all of, you know, after the interview. And he asked me. He started asking me questions which he had never done, like, what's your last name? And, oh, are you Jewish? And it was so bizarre. Like, all of a sudden, he's interested in me, which was sort of creepy. Right. And I remember calling my best friend at the time and saying, you know, I actually feel bad for this knucklehead. Like, he just, you know, he just doesn't get it. He can't get out of his own way. And she said to Me save that for someone who deserves it.

[Judy Ryback]

I agree with her. So, yeah, I do think that because you spent so much time with him that you saw him more as this guy who could have had a great future and threw it away. He hurt himself. I saw him as I couldn't get past. He was a con man who killed this young woman who did have a great future and was just looking for how she could succeed and impress her parents. And he took that all away from all of them. Her parents were wonderful, sweet people who, you know, blamed themselves in part. They felt they might have been too tough on her, and they never got a chance to say that to her.

[Rick Valentini]

Yeah, they were very sweet. And I remember her mother saying she carries her receiving blanket with her for the day that they find her. It was so sad.

[Judy Ryback]

And that turned out to be very important years later.

[Rick Valentini]

Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know. Six and a half years later, I was in Italy on vacation and my phone rang, and it was one of the detectives. And when a detective calls me, I always answer. And he said, you're not gonna believe this, but they found Jamie's body, and they did.

[Judy Ryback]

It still makes me sad, because we did. You and I both talked to him afterwards. And what struck me was how moved they were and happy that they were able to finally bring her home to her parents. And so, you know, their parents will continue grieving, but at least there's, like, a. A bit of closure to that. They know he murdered her. They know where he put her, and they could bury her themselves.

[Rick Valentini]

Yeah. And that's always so important to these families. Right. They just want their. They want their people home. They wanna know where they are. Right.

[Judy Ryback]

They wanna be able to grieve properly. Because sometimes when you don't know, and I've done too many of these stories where the person has not been found, that's. That really kind of gets in the way of the parents grieving properly because there's so much guilt I should be looking for. I didn't do enough to look for. And so finally, these parents can say, she's at rest and we can mourn her properly.

[Rick Valentini]

So, Erin, ultimately, what's the lesson of this, of this case? What should our audience take away from this?

[Judy Ryback]

Well, sadly, I think it is that I keep thinking of her friends, oh, this doesn't happen to us. And yet it does time and time again. Sadly, at 48 hours, if you're worried you're seeing signs of a problem in a relationship, you tell your friend or your sister or your. You know, whoever you know, and when someone doesn't respond, disappear for a while, you, you know, you don't let that go. You don't just assume they're fine. This is a reminder to all of us to stay in touch with the people we care about.

[Rick Valentini]

It's so true. So true. Well, thank you again for joining me for this podcast. You know, again, it was my first hour for 48 hours and now my first podcast for 48 hours. And it's such a pleasure having you.

[Judy Ryback]

But you know what? There'll be plenty of conversations with killers.

[Rick Valentini]

On the next episode of Killer Conversation. Peter Van Sant joins me again, this time to discuss two infamous teenage killers who made headlines around the world, but only granted interviews to Peter for 48 hours.

[Brian Stewart]

Atif, did you and Sebastian Burns meticulously.

[Judy Ryback]

Plan the murder of your family?

[Brian Stewart]

Absolutely. Lot.

[Rick Valentini]

48 hours killer conversation is hosted and produced by me, Judy Ryback. Our story editor is Maura Walls. Alan Pang oversees recording, mixing, and sound design, fact checking and additional production support from Rebecca Laflamme. And Special thanks to 48 Hours executive producer Judy Tygard and Paramount Podcast vice Versa president Meghan Markus. Follow and listen to Killer Conversation on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. If you liked this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Tune in next Tuesday for an all new episode of Killer Conversation. Follow Killer Conversation on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Summer is heating up. The chi is back on Paramount. It's the season of the women. This is on chance. It's time to get to work. But the men aren't giving up without a fight. The shy new season now streaming on the Paramount with Showtime plan. This summer, Pluto TV is exploding with thousands of free movies. Stream hits like Good Burger, Four Brothers, the Wood, Paid in Full and Beverly Hills Cop, all for free. It's Summer of cinema on Pluto tv.

[Judy Ryback]

Stream now pay never.