Killer Conversation: Sebastian Burns & Atif Rafay - Part 2

Summary

48 Hours Episode Summary: "Killer Conversation: Sebastian Burns & Atif Rafay - Part 2"

Release Date: June 25, 2025
Host: Judy Ryback, CBS News
Guest: Peter Van Santa, Author of Perfectly Executed

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1. Introduction and Context

The episode begins with Judy Ryback issuing a trigger warning due to references to graphic physical violence. This episode is the second part of a conversation between Judy Ryback and Peter Van Santa, focusing on the case of Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay—two teenagers convicted of murdering the Rafay family. Their capture was facilitated by a Canadian undercover operation known as "Mr. Big."

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2. Understanding the Mr. Big Operation

Peter Van Santa provides an in-depth explanation of the Mr. Big operation, an undercover unit within the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP). This unit posed as an organized crime family to entrap targets by involving them in seemingly illegal activities.

Peter Van Santa: "One of the undercover officers told me, we have never had a target who we did not successfully pull into our organized crime family. And he said, I'm talking doctors, lawyers, bankers. They were brilliant at this."
[01:48]

The Mr. Big team meticulously orchestrated interactions to gain the trust of Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay. They exploited the boys' interests, such as Sebastian's work on a screenplay titled "The Great Despisers," to draw them into the sting operation.

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3. The Entrapment of Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay

Sebastian and Atif were initially approached under the guise of "Al," the Mr. Big mobster. Pulled into illegal activities like delivering a stolen car for a mere $200—which Sebastian found inadequate—they were enticed further by promises of greater rewards.

Peter Van Santa: "There was the house was bugged and an undercover officer hears that Sebastian is going to get his hair cut... and so the adventure with the Mr. Big team began."
[03:29]

Sebastian's decision to stay involved and seek more money rather than distancing himself highlighted the persuasive prowess of the Mr. Big operation.

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4. Confessions Under the Sting Operation

As the operation progressed, Sebastian and Atif were coerced into confessing to the Rafay family murders. They were led to believe that Mr. Big and his team could eliminate evidence against them, but this was part of the entrapment technique.

Peter Van Santa: "Sebastian admits to doing the murders and he details how he did it, beginning with the mother, then the father, then the daughter, all beaten with a bat."
[10:00]

During a critical conversation recorded by hidden cameras, Sebastian appeared to confess nonchalantly, even laughing nervously while recounting the murders.

Sebastian Burns: "We were lying... I was just in a really awkward position, and I was just kind of chuckling nervously."
[10:58]

This behavior raised questions about the authenticity of his remorse and the validity of the confession.

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5. Legal Proceedings and Extradition Delays

The extradition of Sebastian and Atif from Canada to the United States was delayed primarily due to the lack of a death penalty in Canada. The U.S. insisted on removing the death penalty as a condition for extradition, which was eventually agreed upon after lengthy negotiations.

Peter Van Santa: "At the time when I was covering this... it was an undercover operation that was completely legal in Canada at that time."
[14:24]

This delay extended the time before the boys could face trial, contributing to the protracted nature of their legal battles.

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6. Issues with Defense Attorneys

A significant turning point in the case was the inappropriate conduct of one of Sebastian's public defender attorneys. She engaged in an illicit relationship with Sebastian, leading to her removal from the case and, consequently, compromising the defense strategy.

Peter Van Santa: "She had her law license suspended. She was taken off the case... and the two of them were taken off because they were a team."
[16:15]

The sudden change in defense representation left Sebastian and Atif with inexperienced attorneys, negatively impacting their ability to mount an effective defense.

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7. Trial and Sentencing

During the trial, Sebastian took the witness stand despite his attorney's advice against it. His demeanor was antagonistic, showing no remorse and insisting on his innocence. This behavior alienated the jury and strengthened the prosecution's case.

Peter Van Santa: "He was very put out while answering questions, and that attitude is of, I'm smarter than you, and I'm the one you should believe."
[22:00]

The judge delivered a scathing sentence, emphasizing Sebastian's amoral nature and holding him fully accountable as an adult for his actions.

Judge: "You are not immoral. You are amoral... you will be held responsible as an adult for your premeditated, naked, vicious massacre of this family."
[23:08]

Sebastian received three consecutive life sentences, underscoring the severity of his crimes and the justice served despite the controversial methods used to obtain his confession.

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8. Current Status of Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay

As of the episode's release, both Sebastian and Atif are serving three consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole at the Monroe Correctional Complex. While Atif has shown signs of remorse and engagement in educational activities within the prison, Sebastian remains largely isolated, having spent a decade in solitary confinement.

Peter Van Santa: "He seems to have been or is a model prisoner... All we know about Sebastian is that his parents visit him once a month, and according to them, he spent 10 years in solitary confinement."
[26:30]

Their continued claims of wrongful conviction persist, but the exhaustion of legal appeals, especially by Sebastian, makes any hope of exoneration unlikely.

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9. Reflections and Conclusions

Peter Van Santa reflects on the complexities and ethical dilemmas presented by the Mr. Big operation. He acknowledges the brilliance of the undercover team but also questions the moral implications of entrapping young individuals into committing heinous crimes.

Peter Van Santa: "These guys said, we always get somebody. Once they see our world, we're able to hook somebody."
[04:50]

The episode underscores the thin line between effective law enforcement and manipulative entrapment, leaving listeners to ponder the true nature of justice in such intricate cases.

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Notable Quotes

• Sebastian Burns on Confession:

  "We were lying... I was just in a really awkward position, and I was just kind of chuckling nervously."
  [10:58]

• Judge's Sentencing Remarks:

  "You are not immoral. You are amoral... you will be held responsible as an adult for your premeditated, naked, vicious massacre of this family."
  [23:08]

• Reflection on Entrapment:

  "These guys said, we always get somebody. Once they see our world, we're able to hook somebody."
  [04:50]

---

Final Thoughts

"Killer Conversation: Sebastian Burns & Atif Rafay - Part 2" delves deep into one of the most controversial cases handled by the Mr. Big operation. Through insightful interviews and expert analysis, the episode challenges listeners to consider the ethics of undercover law enforcement strategies and their long-term impacts on individuals' lives.

Transcript

[Judy Ryback]

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[Sebastian Burns]

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[Judy Ryback]

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[Peter Van Santa]

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[Judy Ryback]

Feeling the heat, Circle K makes your day. Before we begin, just a trigger warning. The following episode contains references to graphic physical violence. Please listen with care. Welcome to Killer Conversation, a podcast about the criminal mind. My name is Judy Ryback and I'm a longtime 48 Hours producer. This is part two of my conversation with Peter Van Santa about his interviews with two convicted killers, Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay. Burns and Rafay were just teenagers when they murdered Rafa's family. And they might never have been caught were it not for a Canadian sting known as the Mr. Big operation. So, Peter, Mr. Big? What is that?

[Peter Van Santa]

So this was a unit within the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and undercover unit that would pose as a organized crime family. And they had the ability, when they had a target, to get that person entwined in their illegal business what the target thought would be illegal. One of the undercover officers told me, peter, we have never had a target who we did not successfully pull into our organized crime family. And he said, I'm talking doctors, lawyers, bankers. They were brilliant at this. And so the. There was. The house was bugged and an undercover officer hears that Sebastian is going to get his hair cut at a salon in downtown Vancouver, and they decide this is our moment to make an approach to him. They'd also learned that Sebastian and Atife had been working on a screenplay called the Great Despisers. And it's a story about two young men wrongfully accused of murdering a family. Wow. Where did they get that idea, Judy? Where do you think they got that? And so when Sebastian came out of the barber shop, there was a member of the Mr. Big undercover team waiting. Who approaches Simmonses. Hey, how's it going? You know, I left my keys in my car here. You know, can you do me a favor, drive me down to the local hotel. I got an extra set of keys down there. And so the adventure with the Mr. Big team began, right?

[Judy Ryback]

They went to a bar and they started talking and forming a relationship. And because they knew about the screenplay, they sort of used that to. To reel him in, right? Like at some point he said, I know somebody who I think can fund your movie, who can give you money to make your film. Let's go meet him. And that very same night, they went to go meet with Mr. Big, who they called Al, right?

[Peter Van Santa]

Yes, I've met Al. I've interviewed Al in shadow. The all the guys on this undercover team were among the most talented I have ever seen. They looked like character actors out of a Hollywood movie. And not long after, they. They meet this mobster, Al Mr. Big. He asked Sebastian to drive a very expensive stolen car from Whistler Mountain outside of Vancouver back to the city. And Sebastian agreed. And after the delivery, Sebastian was paid $200. That made him anger, angry, because he wanted a lot more money than that. But instead of running away from what he thought was a criminal enterprise, Sebastian told them he wanted more money.

[Judy Ryback]

Right.

[Peter Van Santa]

This is what. Remember I told you these guys said, we always get somebody. Once they see our world, we're able to hook somebody.

[Judy Ryback]

They know their audience, right?

[Peter Van Santa]

So he and Jimmy Miyoshi, we remember his roommate, they agreed to start laundering money for this Mr. Big enterprise, and they were paid $2,000 for that. Oh, these are guys that can't get jobs. They're suddenly raking in the dough. They're going, they're having excitement. They're living on the edge, right? And Sebastian ends up working for this criminal enterprise for nearly four months.

[Judy Ryback]

I think we should just clarify that. Jimmy Miyoshi was a high school friend who they were living with at the time of the sting operation. So eventually, Sebastian was asked if he was willing to ready for this, commit murder.

[Sebastian Burns]

The only reason why I'm talking like that, if you follow the whole conversation, you'll see he's asking me a lot of questions about how does my conscience handle crime. And this is after he's already confessed to me that he's a murderer himself. And after he's also told me that he's worried that I'm a threat to his organization. He's worried that I'm reluctant to work for them. And it was clear that he was worried that I was going to tell them to the police. And the only conceivable purpose, I told him at this point that that wouldn't bother my conscience, but I wouldn't want to do it myself. And he Continued to ask me questions.

[Peter Van Santa]

You're saying, I'd do it, but I wouldn't do it. You're saying, yeah, I'd kill somebody, but, you know, I guess I wouldn't kill somebody. Is that what you're saying we should take from that exchange?

[Sebastian Burns]

Well, what you should take from that exchange is that I was trying to satisfy him that I wasn't going to tell the police what he just confessed to me. And I also told them, however, that I didn't want to do it. I mean, the sum total.

[Peter Van Santa]

Are we getting a glimpse here into the real Sebastian Burns, the man who had murdered a family and is now telling one of these undercover guys you're willing to do it again?

[Sebastian Burns]

No, that's completely not true. And if you read the rest of that excerpt, Peter, I think that it will be more clear that what I'm telling him there is, that I do not want to do that.

[Judy Ryback]

So is it true? Did he try to walk away? Did he ever say no to anything?

[Peter Van Santa]

No. He stays, he says, because he was afraid of what they would do to him if he didn't. But we already know that he is delighted. They've heard on these. These bugging devices. He's delighted by the money that's coming in.

[Judy Ryback]

So they. They tell the boys that. That there's. That they've heard that there's evidence against them in the case in Washington. Right. They have a memo that they show them that says that police found hairs and DNA and blood evidence that's gonna. That's gonna turn the whole case around. And they tell the boys that. That they can help get rid of that evidence.

[Peter Van Santa]

Yeah, this is really convincing stuff. This is very persuasive to him that, oh, my God, they've got this. They've got this evidence, and Mr. Big, with all his connections, can destroy that evidence. But Sebastian has to agree to do something. What is it, Judy?

[Judy Ryback]

He has to confess to the murders.

[Peter Van Santa]

That's right. And this is very clever. And this is where, you know, in the United States at that time, if there was an undercover operation like this, you tell me, would this be admissible?

[Judy Ryback]

No, absolutely not.

[Peter Van Santa]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. It would not be admissible. And, and Sebastian is, you know, he's heading down that drain. It's swirling and he's losing control because now they're going to have to tell Mr. Big exactly what happened to Mr. Big's satisfaction at Athi's family's home. And eventually, Sebastian and Atif are sitting in a room with Mr. Big. They're unaware that there's a hidden video camera and it's recording every second of their conversation, picture and sound.

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[Peter Van Santa]

There's no doubt about it. Sebastian admits to doing the murders and he details how he did it, beginning with the mother, then the father, then the daughter, all beaten with a bat.

[Judy Ryback]

Yeah. The way he confesses on that undercover tape is so matter of fact and at times he even laughs about it. You talk to him about that.

[Peter Van Santa]

Your behavior on that tape when there's some laughing. Did you think that the murder of the Refae family was some sort of a comedy?

[Sebastian Burns]

No, absolutely not. But we were lying. And I was not thinking about the murder of the Raffae family. When I was talking, I was trying to pass off a story. And for whatever reason, I guess the way that the whole ordeal affected me was to get nervous and to kind of giggle a bit. And I mean, in one sense I was trying to act casual and in another way I was, I guess, just genuinely giggling nervously.

[Peter Van Santa]

You laugh when you say Bosman needed a little extra bat work. That's sick, isn't it?

[Sebastian Burns]

Well, yes. I don't want to split hairs, but the quote is actually a little more effort. I mean, not that it's much better and I guess that is just splitting hairs, but at the same time, It's a little bit different.

[Peter Van Santa]

That's not any better. Effort is still outrageous. You laugh when you're talking about killing Bosma.

[Sebastian Burns]

Yeah, well, we were lying. And at that point, I felt very awkward because I didn't know what to say about it to Al because we didn't do it. And I was making up a story, and I was chuckling awkwardly because I didn't know what to say, and I was. We had already heard some of the details in the newspaper about what supposedly happened there, and I was just in a really awkward position, and I was just kind of chuckling nervously.

[Peter Van Santa]

Sebastian, aren't we looking at you on this videotape? The real Sebastian Burns, the person who planned this murder, killed these people and has no conscience to the point where you can laugh about it.

[Sebastian Burns]

No, that's completely wrong. No, you are never seeing the real me on any of these tapes, in my opinion.

[Judy Ryback]

In my opinion. What an odd thing to say. Sebastian claims he was forced to confess that he was afraid of what the mob boss might do to him if he didn't. So Atif is there that day, and he also confessed they needed both boys there, right?

[Peter Van Santa]

Yeah. But Atif claims that he also felt trapped in that moment and had no choice that if they confessed, the mob boss was going to protect him and destroy that evidence down in Bellevue. And if they didn't, who knows what would have happened to them.

[Sebastian Burns]

I certainly had no way of dealing.

[Judy Ryback]

With the situation other than the one.

[Sebastian Burns]

That was offered by the undercover operatives.

[Judy Ryback]

Whereby somehow they would essentially, magically take.

[Sebastian Burns]

Care of all our problems.

[Judy Ryback]

And I certainly, I can say that.

[Sebastian Burns]

I almost enjoyed the irony of making a false confession in order to obtain a true exoneration. I thought that was kind of neat.

[Judy Ryback]

Neat? It was neat making up a story about his murdered family.

[Peter Van Santa]

What can I say? And like Sebastian, he laughed when he talked about the murder of his sister. Basma. You have declined to discuss the details of these murders during the course of this interview, what you saw inside your own house. And yet in front of two mobsters, you laugh about it and you give complete detail about what happened inside that house. I don't get it.

[Sebastian Burns]

It's easier to talk about a fiction.

[Judy Ryback]

Than it is to about the truth. I think in that way, I didn't have any emotional feelings about a fake story that I was telling. He doesn't ever have any emotional feelings, or it doesn't appear that he's emotional anyway. To a lot of people, what the Canadian officers did feels like entrapment and coerced Confessions. In fact, Sebastian's sister made a documentary about the Mr. Big operation that got Innocence International to take on Ateef and Sebastian's case. But all of the appeals were denied.

[Peter Van Santa]

At the time when I was covering this. And the way it was explained in court is that this was an undercover operation that was completely legal in Canada at that time. It was eventually became illegal, but at that time, it was legal. And here in the US There was an exception called the silver platter doctrine, which said that if an operation was legal in the country where it was conducted, it was then admissible here in the United States. And defense attorneys tried to get the video thrown out, but the judge in Sebastian and Atif's trial allowed jurors to watch it, and on it, the boys confess.

[Judy Ryback]

Do you think they would have been convicted without those tapes?

[Peter Van Santa]

I am not sure that they would have been convicted with what the neighbors had heard of these killings going on at a time when the boys were seen in a movie theater. I think there is hung jury was a real possibility. Or an acquittal was a real possibility. This was. This was the moment.

[Judy Ryback]

Right. Or there may never have been a trial. Right.

[Peter Van Santa]

Those of you who've been listening to all this, what do you think?

[Judy Ryback]

Right.

[Peter Van Santa]

If that tape had not been played, would these boys have been convicted? I think there's a excellent chance that they would not have been.

[Judy Ryback]

So a little over a year after the murders, they tell these Canadian officers that they committed the murders, but it took nearly 6.6years to extradite them. Why?

[Peter Van Santa]

Well, at the heart of this was the death penalty. There is no death penalty for murder in Canada. And the Canadian government said they're not going to extradite the boys until the judge in this case agreed to take. And prosecutors agreed to take the death penalty off the table, which eventually happened.

[Judy Ryback]

Right. Both boys were represented by public defenders, and there's kind of a crazy story about how they were pulled off the case. Is it true that Sebastian had sex with one of his attorneys?

[Peter Van Santa]

Yeah, so I'll leave her name out of it. She's been through so much. But he had this dynamic woman attorney that was considered one of the best in the public defender's office. She had gone to Japan to see Jimmy Miyoshi. Remember, he was Sebastian and Atif's roommate in Vancouver, British Columbia, and Jimmy had been accused of conspiring in the murders, and. And he made a deal with the state to testify against his friends, and then he moved to Japan. Well, Sebastian's lawyer flew to Japan to meet with him. And she came back. She was incredibly excited because she claimed that Jimmy told her that he felt leaned on to make the deal. And she was excited that. That if she could present this in court, it would completely undermine him as a. As a witness. And I was told by the prosecutor in the case who talked to the guards who watched some of this unfold. She ran into his meeting, into the meeting room. She gives him this big hug. She tells him the news. They hug again. And then the hug immediately progressed into removal of clothing. A guard who is watching all of this called two other guards over and because they're on a slightly second floor, that they could look down and see this window on the door, this small window, could see inside. And they said, do you see what I see? Okay. Do you see what I see? Yeah, we all know what that is. Okay, well then let's go break this up. And it's a felony to have sex with an inmate in. In jail like that. And she had her law license suspended. She was taken off the case. And she had a partner who was. Who was incredibly bright and talented. And the two of them were taken off because they were a team. So when these two defense attorneys come in, instead of having years of research behind them, they had a few months to get prepared for this. And that was devastating to Sebastian and Atif's case.

[Judy Ryback]

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[Peter Van Santa]

Hi again, TV's quirkiest crime solver.

[Judy Ryback]

I'm Elspeth Tasioni. I work work with the police is on the case. I like my outlandish theories with a heavy dose of evidence and ready to.

[Peter Van Santa]

Go toe to toe with a cavalcade of guest stars. Are you saying that this is now a murder investigation?

[Judy Ryback]

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[Peter Van Santa]

Yeah, he said he'd been present when Sebastian and atife had discussed their plans to murder the family. And he specifically said he would call them, saying that they planned to stay at the Rafae home for a few days before the murder so their DNA and hair would be explainable when it was discovered during forensic examination.

[Judy Ryback]

Part of the plan, part of the master plan. So there was a bit of physical evidence that showed that there might have been someone else involved in the murder, at least of Tariq. What was that?

[Peter Van Santa]

Well, there was a hair, just a single hair found on the body of Tariq Rafae that didn't belong to anyone in the family or Sebastian. Now, of course, Tariq worked in the outside world, and being at work, if somebody had given him a hug or anything else, you could see transference. There was. But there was also, and this was really strange, there was blood in the garage that was discovered that didn't belong to anyone in the family or to Sebastian. And also, then don't forget the two neighbors who testified that they heard a commotion at the house at a time when the boys were in that movie theater.

[Judy Ryback]

Right, Right. So Sebastian took the witness stand, which doesn't surprise me at all. What about you?

[Peter Van Santa]

It doesn't surprise me. I'll use that phrase brilliantly. Stupid. His attorney said, don't do this. We have a chance. There's some reasonable doubt in here, and do not do this. And Sebastian insisted.

[Judy Ryback]

If he was anything like he was in your interview, I can only imagine that the jury just hated him.

[Peter Van Santa]

Yeah, it's. He had that same attitude.

[Judy Ryback]

Right.

[Peter Van Santa]

He was very put out while answering questions, and that. That attitude is of, I'm smarter than you, and I'm the one you should believe.

[Judy Ryback]

So at. At his sentencing, Sebastian never showed any remorse, told the jurors they were wrong, and went on for nearly two hours. What did he say?

[Peter Van Santa]

Yeah, I was there. This was theater in the round one man performance. He talked to the judge directly, but also then turned back to talk to the people in the room, all of us that were there. He insisted he was innocent, repeated himself over and over about why the jury was wrong. He threw his defense team under the bus, called them ineffective. He claimed he didn't know he would testify until the morning of and was unprepared. That's not true. Defense attorney had told me that they had urged him not to do this. He forced them to put him on the stand. He insisted that he had not had his day in court and asked that if he could have a new trial and represent himself. The judge told him to wrap it up many times.

[Judy Ryback]

This is what the judge said when he sentenced Sebastian to three consecutive life sentences. Mr. Burns, you are not immoral. You are amoral. You are an arrogant convicted killer. You are not a kid, as you so often refer to yourself. You're an adult. And you will be held responsible as an adult for your premeditated, naked, vicious massacre of this family. Of all the mic drops I've ever heard delivered from the bench.

[Peter Van Santa]

That was epic, if I may say. A touch of genius from the judge, such as Athife might say. Such irony for the two geniuses whose brilliance and arrogance had turned on them and led to their demise.

[Judy Ryback]

Yes, yes. On the other hand, Atef seemed to get choked up at his sentencing. He didn't admit to his crime, but he showed remorse for his behavior for the first time.

[Peter Van Santa]

And I had interviewed him and things, I saw some humanity. The big question always in a situation like that is, is he sad for what he did or is he sad that he got caught?

[Judy Ryback]

Right, Exactly. And was it genuine or was he just terrified? So they both got three consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole. And of course they vowed to fight their wrongful conviction. But they're never getting out, right?

[Peter Van Santa]

Well, it's doubtful now. Sebastian has exhausted all of his appeals. Tief has one more to go. But I think it is very. It is very doubtful that. That they will ever see life outside of a prison cell. Here's an exchange I had with Atif. How would you describe what has happened to you?

[Judy Ryback]

I don't know. I guess we'd have to use words.

[Sebastian Burns]

Like disaster and calamity and other things.

[Judy Ryback]

It's very easy to fall into the rut of self pity. And so I try not to think.

[Sebastian Burns]

On it too much.

[Judy Ryback]

Luckily, it's very easy to.

[Peter Van Santa]

I guess, think of other things and fall into.

[Judy Ryback]

A sort of unmindfulness of your present situation. And here's Sebastian.

[Peter Van Santa]

Do you still see the images of their bodies when you think about the Rafae house, When you think about that Nike and you still see it in your mind's eye, Is it something you live with, that memory?

[Sebastian Burns]

Truly, I don't know. It was something that was very much with me for. I know the first year after it happened, especially with the first few weeks, it's been 10 years now. And so in a lot of ways, I'm over it.

[Judy Ryback]

Why do you think they never turned on each other?

[Peter Van Santa]

I still believe that they believe, and this is what has sustained them all these years, is that one day they will outsmart the system on appeal. They're down to their last one for atife. And I don't think Athi could ever have turned on Sebastian. His idol and his mentor.

[Judy Ryback]

Right. So Today they're both 49 years old. They're still in custody in the Monroe Correctional Complex. Athif was married in 2017, but is now divorced. Not surprisingly, he seems to have been or is a model prisoner, studying and teaching and writing papers and articles. All we know about Sebastian is that his parents visit him once a month, and according to them, he spent 10 years in solitary confinement. Well, Peter, we could go on forever, but we won't.

[Peter Van Santa]

Yeah, somebody wrote a book about it.

[Judy Ryback]

Yes, you did.

[Peter Van Santa]

You did. That my relatives bought Perfectly Executed is the book. I wrote it with Janet Jackson, one of the producers.

[Judy Ryback]

All right, thank you again.

[Peter Van Santa]

Yeah. And thanks for reliving this with me. It is one of the most extraordinary cases of my career and one I'll carry with me forever.

[Judy Ryback]

I can see why. 48 Hours killer conversation is hosted and produced by me, Judy Ryback. Our story editor is Maura Walls. Alan Peng oversees recording, recording, mixing, and sound design, fact checking, and additional production support from Rebecca Laflamme. And Special thanks to 48 Hours executive producer Judy Tygard and Paramount podcast vice president, Megan Marcus.

[Peter Van Santa]

What is Dadication?

[Judy Ryback]

The thing that drives me every day as a dad is Dariona. We call him Day Date for short. Every day, he's hungry for something, whether it's attention, affection, knowledge, and there's this huge responsibility and making sure that when he's no longer under my wing that he's a good person. I want him to be able to sit back one day and go, we work together. We did a good job.

[Peter Van Santa]

That's dedication. Find out [e-mail] brought to you by the U.S. department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council.

[Judy Ryback]

This summer, Pluto TV is exploding with thousands of free movies presenting summer of cinema stream hits like Good Burger, Can I take you Four Brothers, the Wood Paid in Full, and Beverly Hills Cop 1, 2, and 3.

[Sebastian Burns]

How you doing?

[Judy Ryback]

All for free. Get ready to feel the free with all the blockbusters one Summer can handle. And keep up with the action from virtually any of your devices. Summer will never be the same. Pluto TV stream now pay Never.