My Daughter's Killer

Summary

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48 Hours Podcast — “My Daughter's Killer”

Host: CBS News
Air Date: June 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

This deeply emotional episode of "48 Hours" follows Paula Kurland’s extraordinary journey to find closure after the brutal murder of her daughter, Mitzi, in 1986. The narrative centers on Paula's 12-year struggle with grief, her quest to confront her daughter's killer, Jonathan Wayne Nobles, and her experience seeking peace through Texas's unique Victim-Offender Mediation Dialogue program. The episode explores the complexities of loss, forgiveness, and justice—ultimately culminating in Paula’s face-to-face meeting with Nobles on Death Row and the impact of that confrontation on her path to healing.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Paula’s Grief and the Crime (00:38–04:30)

• Paula Kurland recalls her daughter Mitzi's beauty, kindness, and untimely death—Mitzi was murdered on her 20th birthday, along with her friend Kelly, during an intruder’s brutal attack.
• Prosecutor Carla Connolly details the crime: Kelly was almost decapitated; Mitzi was stabbed 28 times. Ron Ross, Mitzi’s boyfriend, survived being stabbed 19 times and provided crucial evidence leading to the killer.
• Notable Quote:
  “When Mitzi was murdered, I just died.” — Paula Kurland (01:19)

The Investigation and Arrest (04:30–05:20)

• Police tracked the suspect through a blood trail and witness accounts, leading to Jonathan Wayne Nobles—an ex-con with a troubled, drug-abusing past.
• Nobles confessed, showing no remorse during the interrogation.

Trial, Verdict, and Aftermath (05:20–07:09)

• Nobles cited his history of abuse and drug addiction but the jury found him guilty and sentenced him to death.
• Notable Quote:
  “His exact words to me were, ‘I’m really very sorry and if I could give my life right now to bring hers back, I would.’ And I said, that just isn’t enough.” — Paula Kurland (06:50)

Paula’s Pursuit of Closure (07:09–11:14)

• Paula describes the ongoing pain and her need to confront Nobles, explaining,
  “He’s sentenced to prison, but so are we. We’ve been imprisoned for 12 years and it’s time for us to be free and tell him exactly what he’s done to her.” (07:44)
• She discovers the Texas Victim-Offender Mediation Dialogue program—rare in the U.S., and unique for including death row inmates.

Preparation for Confrontation (11:14–14:36)

• Mediator David Derfler prepares both parties for months, ensuring Nobles accepts responsibility. Even then, doubts remain about his sincerity.
• Paula’s family is divided, with her sister Brenda and son Joe questioning the wisdom and necessity of such a meeting.

The Organ Donation Controversy (14:36–17:02)

• Nobles seeks to donate his organs as a final act of “good,” triggering skepticism from Paula, who suspects it’s a legal tactic to delay execution.
• Notable Quote:
  “He can sit there and tell me how remorseful he is till hell freezes over. This proves to me that he isn’t remorseful and he’s not making us his victims any longer.” — Paula Kurland (15:31)

The Face-to-Face Meeting (18:20–26:50)

• Paula prepares herself emotionally and enters Ellis Unit 1 (Death Row) to finally meet Nobles.

• The conversation is raw, honest, and at times unbearable. Paula confronts Nobles with the reality of his crimes, her pain, and her family’s suffering.

  Key Exchange:

  • Paula: “She was a real person, Jonathan… she was my baby. You can’t imagine what you’ve done. You just don’t know how much pain you’ve caused.” (20:34)
  • Nobles: “When you say that I cannot understand the pain I brought… No, I can’t.” (21:05)
  • Paula: “But thank you for that.” (21:14)

• Paula finds herself experiencing compassion, not forgiveness for the crime, but for the person.

  • “I feel compassion.” — Paula Kurland (24:36)
  • “I don't know that I deserve it.” — Jonathan Wayne Nobles (24:39)
  • “No, you don’t. But you have it.” — Paula Kurland (24:40)

• Nobles apologizes:
  "I brutally murdered your daughter. I brutally murdered her friend. I brought absolute horror into your life. I don't know what else to say other than I'm sorry." (25:25–26:04)

• Paula tells him:
  "The best I can give you is my forgiveness. I can never forgive what you did. But the God that I believe in demands that I have to forgive you as a person.” (26:29)

The Execution and Aftermath (32:03–38:38)

• Two weeks later, Paula attends Noble’s execution, describing complicated feelings of sadness, relief, and closure:

  • “He’s been basically in control of my life for 12 years, and today I'll be getting my life back.” — Paula Kurland (35:36)
  • Nobles’s final words to Paula: “Paula, I love you and I’m sorry.” (36:38)
  • Before dying by lethal injection, Nobles sings “Silent Night.”

• Paula’s emotional journey continues even after witnessing the execution:

  • “I feel sadness. I’m going to grieve for Jonathan.” (34:31)
  • “I feel light. I just feel like something has just left my body.” (37:25)

Reflections on Mediation and Forgiveness (28:02–32:40)

• The episode briefly contrasts Texas’s mediation approach with South Carolina’s more distant system, showing different victims’ attitudes toward confronting offenders and the possibility of forgiveness.
• In other cases, as with Jimmy and Chandler Leland, forgiveness is impossible, and the preference is for no contact.
• Paula’s journey demonstrates that remorse from the perpetrator can be crucial in enabling forgiveness (“Remorse made forgiveness easier to offer.”) (32:50)

Final Moments and Legacy (38:38–End)

• After Nobles’s death, Paula is surprised to receive a medal Nobles had worn, left as a final gift.
• “A good end to a terrible tragedy.” — Paula Kurland (38:38)
• Paula reflects that, at last, her daughter can rest, and she can begin to let go of the pain that dominated her life for over a decade.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “When Mitzi was murdered, I just died.” — Paula Kurland (01:19)
• “She died a horrible death, a frightening death. Can you imagine that? Your last thought in this world being of somebody stabbing you?” — Paula Kurland (03:16)
• “His exact words to me were, ‘I’m really very sorry and if I could give my life right now to bring hers back, I would.’ And I said, that just isn’t enough.” — Paula Kurland (06:50)
• “He’s sentenced to prison, but so are we. We’ve been imprisoned for 12 years and it’s time for us to be free…” — Paula Kurland (07:44)
• “Not everyone feels the need to do what I’m doing, but I think everyone should at least be open to it.” — Paula Kurland (14:09)
• “I feel compassion.” — Paula Kurland (24:36)
• “I don’t know that I deserve it.” — Jonathan Wayne Nobles (24:39)
• “The best I can give you is my forgiveness. I can never forgive what you did. But the God that I believe in demands that I have to forgive you as a person.” — Paula Kurland (26:29)
• “He’s been basically in control of my life for 12 years, and today I'll be getting my life back.” — Paula Kurland (35:36)
• “Jonathan isn’t going to be a weight and a focal point in my life anymore.” — Paula Kurland (37:54)
• “A good end to a terrible tragedy.” — Paula Kurland (38:38)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Paula’s Grief and the Murders: 00:38–04:30
• Investigation and Arrest of Nobles: 04:30–05:20
• Trial and Aftermath: 05:20–07:09
• Paula’s Quest for Confrontation & Mediation: 07:09–14:36
• Organ Donation Controversy: 14:36–17:02
• Preparation, Confrontation, and Catharsis: 18:20–26:50
• Contrasting Mediation with Other States: 28:02–32:40
• Execution and Paula’s Reaction: 32:03–38:38
• Final Reflections and Letting Go: 38:38–End

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Tone and Atmosphere

The episode unflinchingly lays bare Paula’s pain, tenacity, and eventual measure of forgiveness without softening the horror of the crimes or the difficulties of closure. The interviews, exchanges, and mediation are raw, direct, and often heart-wrenching—never sentimental, but deeply human. The reporting never shies away from the ambiguity of forgiveness, the limits of justice, and the complexity of remorse.

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Summary

“My Daughter’s Killer” is a powerful exploration of the intersecting lives of victim, murderer, and their families. It offers a rare, deeply personal look at what justice, closure, and forgiveness can mean after unimaginable loss—and at the emotional toll exacted by both crime and the search for healing. The episode stands as a testament to the courage required for true confrontation, the reality of restorative justice, and the enduring wounds that, in rare cases, can begin to heal.

Transcript

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[Paula Kurland]

She was very beautiful. She had the biggest, brownest eyes and her heart was so good. This was the first newspaper article. This was the crucifix from her casket

[Narrator/Reporter]

in a handmade cedar chest in her Houston, Texas home.

[Paula Kurland]

This was her little gawky stage.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Paula Kurland keeps her memories of her daughter Mitzi under lock and key.

[Paula Kurland]

I'm just extremely protective of the contents. Well, you can see how old the papers are.

[Paula Kurland (continued)]

It's the first time I've gone through

[Paula Kurland]

them in 10 years.

[Narrator/Reporter]

On most days, even opening the chest is just too painful.

[Paula Kurland]

When Mitzi was murdered, I just died.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But today, Paula has to look for one favorite photograph.

[Paula Kurland]

I'm going to wear her picture right here on my chest that she'll wear

[Narrator/Reporter]

to one remarkable meeting.

[Paula Kurland]

The last pictures he saw of her was her laying on the floor with 28 stab wounds. That's the reason we're here.

[Narrator/Reporter]

In just a few days, Paula Kurland will finally meet the man who murdered her daughter face to face.

[Paula Kurland]

I can't bring Mitzi back, but I can make her memory a lot more pleasant than it is now.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Will this do that?

[Paula Kurland]

That's what I'm working for.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

What could he possibly say to you that would make you feel any better?

[Paula Kurland]

I don't think that he can say anything that would make me feel better. But I can say some things that'll make me feel better.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Things she's been waiting to say ever since that terrible night in 1986, the night of Mitzi's 20. Mitzi came home late to the house she shared in Austin, Texas, with her roommate, Kelly Farquhar.

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

These girls were asleep in their beds, minding their own business. Mitzi had been out celebrating her birthday.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Carla Connelly was an Austin prosecutor.

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

It was very, very brutal.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She says the horror began when an intruder broke in.

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

He jumped the fence of Mitzi and Kelly's home, went into the house through a back door.

[Narrator/Reporter]

When the Girl started screaming. The intruder started stabb. First Kelly.

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

He slit her throat ear to ear, almost decapitating her.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He killed Kelly, then Mitzi.

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

Mitzi was huddled in the corner of a closet with her body covered in stab wounds.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Mitzi was stabbed 28 times.

[Paula Kurland]

She died a horrible death, a frightening death. Can you imagine that? Your last thought in this world being of somebody stabbing you?

[Narrator/Reporter]

With the girls dead, the killer might have gotten away. But that night, there was someone else in the house.

[Ron Ross]

Okay, you can throw the rock when

[Narrator/Reporter]

we get to the water. These days, Ron Ross lives with his wife and two kids just a few miles from the murder scene. But back in 1986, Ron was Mitzi's new boyfriend.

[Ron Ross]

She was a beautiful woman. She always had a smile on her face.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He'd been celebrating her birthday and had fallen asleep at her house.

[Ron Ross]

She came back screaming my name into the room. And it was pitch black. And I reached up to turn on the light.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Ron bolted out of bed and fought for his life.

[Ron Ross]

Our fight was hand to hand, face to face, the whole time.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Ron was stabbed 19 times before the killer turned and ran. Ron made it outside and collapsed. A neighbor called the police. The crime here was brutal and frightening.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

There was no motive and no suspect.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The police, though, did have one significant lead. As he fought for his life, Ron Ross had managed to turn the murderer's

[Interviewer/Reporter]

own knife against him, cutting him in the arm. Now, whoever he was, wherever he was,

[Narrator/Reporter]

the cops knew the killer would be hurt and looking for help.

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

He drips blood onto the carpet, out the walkway and all the way out the backyard onto the fence and onto the leaves.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Police followed that blood trail, canvassed the neighborhood and found two witnesses who said a friend of theirs had just come by asking for bandages.

[Paula Kurland]

I got a call from Ronnie's father. Dale said, baby, they got the bastard. And I said, you're kidding. He said, no. And he said, his name is John Wayne Nobles.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Jonathan wayne nobles. A 25 year old ex con with a history of petty crime and mental illness. He'd been abusing drugs since he was 10 years old. Detective Dusty Heskew made the arrest.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

Not any doubt in my mind he'd have killed somebody else if we hadn't caught him.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He was there when Nobles gave this chilling confession.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

Was she screaming?

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

I believe so.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Did you start to stab her?

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

Yes, I did stab her.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Could you feel the knife going into her body?

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

I don't recall that sensation.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

He just never, never showed any remors. It was kind of like he smiled

[Narrator/Reporter]

all the way through the whole time. In his confession, Nobles never said why he committed the crimes. Later, he blamed the drugs.

[Paula Kurland]

He had a terrible, terrible past.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Mental illness.

[Paula Kurland]

Not any of us have had a wonderful, perfect past. And his abusive childhood that we didn't kill someone. He did.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Nobles offered the same reasons at his trial a year later, but the jury didn't buy it. The trial lasted more than a month, and when it was over, it took the jury of eight women and four

[Interviewer/Reporter]

men less than three hours to reach its decision.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The verdict, guilty.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

The sentence, death.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Then, before he was led away to death row, Jonathan Nobles did something nobody expected. He spoke to Paula Kurland.

[Paula Kurland]

His exact words to me were, I'm really very sorry and if I could give my life right now to bring hers back, I would. And I said, that just isn't enough.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

Serenaded divine.

[Narrator/Reporter]

More than a decade later, it still isn't enough. But now Paula says there is one thing that might find bring her peace of mind.

[Paula Kurland]

I sat in a courtroom with him for 13 months before he went to death row. And I've been trying to see him ever since.

[Narrator/Reporter]

That's right. Amazing as it sounds, ever since the trial, Paula Kurland has wanted to go to death row.

[Paula Kurland]

He's sentenced to prison, but so are we.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Look her daughter's killer in the eye.

[Paula Kurland]

We've been imprisoned for 12 years and it's time to for us to be

[Narrator/Reporter]

free and tell him exactly what he's done to her.

[Paula Kurland]

It's going to help me close a chapter and hopefully get on with my life.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But year after year, Nobles refused to meet with Paula. Until now. 12 years since the murders. Less than two weeks before his execution, Jonathan Nobles is finally ready to talk.

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[Paula Kurland]

In loving memory. Mitzi annally.

[Narrator/Reporter]

On the 12th anniversary of her daughter's murder.

[Paula Kurland]

We should be celebrating your 33rd birthday instead of mourning the anniversary of your death.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Paula Kurland is placing a memorial notice in the newspaper.

[Paula Kurland]

None of us could ever express how much we still love and miss you,

[Narrator/Reporter]

just like she does every year.

[Paula Kurland]

But this year will be different for us. We will at long last see justice done for your death.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And this year will be different. Soon, Paula will finally meet Jonathan Wayne Nobles, the man who murdered her daughter. And two weeks after that, he'll be executed.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Why put yourself through this if he's

[Narrator/Reporter]

going to die anyway?

[Paula Kurland]

Because there are some things that I want him to take with him that only I can give him.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She's been trying to do that for more than a decade. But Paula's requests to meet Nobles in prison were always denied.

[Paula Kurland]

It's been 12 years, and it's time.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Until she discovered a little known state program with a very long name. Victim Offender Mediation Dialogue.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

Our purpose.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The people who run it shot these videos of the program at work.

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

This is real hard for me.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Victims who want to get on with their lives.

[Paula Kurland]

God knows I felt anger like I've

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

never felt in my life.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Meeting the criminals who devastated their lives.

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

It's real important to me that I know about those last. The last things he said.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Why would anyone want to do this? Well, each meeting happens only if both sides agree to it, and then only after months of preparation with a trained mediator, David Derfler. With Victim Services like psychologist David Derfler,

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

this is not fun and games. I mean, this is real life. It's the opportunity to see people at their very worst and at their very best.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Derfler started the program. He's the one who finally convinced Nobles to meet with Paula.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

Hey, Jonathan.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Today, Jonathan Nobles, now 37, might not look or sound much like a killer.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

I have to be accountable to myself saying, jonathan, you're guilty. Okay, Jonathan, you did this. Jonathan, you were wrong, Jonathan. It was a monstrous act.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Like many convicted murderers, he says he's found religion in prison. And now before he dies, he says he wants to do a little good by bringing Paula some peace.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

That's one of those moral and spiritual obligations.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He's been working with David Durfler for months.

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

Go to the heart.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

Not facing that pain is far worse than anything else.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Derfler is helping Nobles figure out what to say when he has to look Paula in the eye.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

I made a mistake. I can't go back and change the past.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

A mistake? I mean, I make a mistake by leaving something at home. I mean that.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

A mistake by allowing myself to get so far out of control that murder became possible.

[Narrator/Reporter]

If the prisoner isn't remorseful, isn't there

[Interviewer/Reporter]

a chance that this process could actually do more harm to the victims?

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

Absolutely. But the fact is that one of the requirements for them to participate in this process is to admit guilt and take responsibility.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But when the time comes, will Nobles really take responsibility? Will he show remorse? Or will he try to destroy Paula Kurland again?

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

He was manipulative then, and I think he's manipulative today.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Carla Connolly, the prosecutor who put him behind bars, has her doubts about his sincerity.

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

Perhaps the man is being sincere. Perhaps I'm just being cynical. But I question his motives.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And she's not the only one.

[Brenda (Paula's Sister)]

I don't want to get to know him in any way. I don't see why anybody would. I wouldn't even give him the satisfaction to let him know I think about him.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Your family doesn't necessarily think this is a good idea.

[Paula Kurland]

They think I'm crazy.

[Brenda (Paula's Sister)]

Thought she was crazy.

[Paula Kurland]

I told her I thought she was crazy. She told me I was stupid and crazy.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Paula's own family has never understood why she ever wanted to meet Nobles.

[Paula Kurland]

He's not honest. Killers can't be honest.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Her sister, Brenda.

[Paula Kurland]

He didn't just kill Mitzi. He killed everybody. He killed everybody that we loved.

[Narrator/Reporter]

You know her son, Joe.

[Brenda (Paula's Sister)]

I've never seen him in person. Why in the hell would I want to see him in person?

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Can you understand that? Probably most people wouldn't want to sit in the same room with someone who killed their child.

[Paula Kurland]

Not everyone feels the need to do what I'm doing, but I think everyone should at least be open to it.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

By all accounts, this man is a manipulative guy.

[Paula Kurland]

Exactly.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Can use words and say things and try and convince people of things that may or may not be true.

[Paula Kurland]

That's right.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Are you prepared for this guy?

[Paula Kurland]

He can say anything he wants to say. It's not going to change what I feel.

[Narrator/Reporter]

At least that's what she thought.

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

Until Nobles has been on Texas death row for the past 12 years.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Nobles says something in a local TV interview that changes everything and could jeopardize the meeting.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

The organ donation. That's about love and respect. It's not about anything for Jonathan.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Nobles says he wants to become the first death row inmate in Texas history to donate his organs.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

I Think it's my responsibility to do what I can to today that which I believe is God's will.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But lethal injection leaves organs unusable. Nobles would need surgery in a hospital before his execution.

[Paula Kurland]

We don't let death row inmates out. End of story.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Prison officials won't let it happen, but Nobles wants to challenge that in court.

[Paula Kurland]

If there's anything of him walking around on the face of this earth, this will never be closed for me.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Paula thinks it's just a stunt to get a stay of execution. Now she's furious.

[Paula Kurland]

He can sit there and tell me how remorseful he is till hell freezes over. This proves to me that he isn't remorseful and he's not making us his victims any longer.

[Narrator/Reporter]

So here's the problem. Before Nobles and Paula can actually sit down together, the mediator, David Derfler, must give his okay. If he thinks this meeting might just dissolve into a shouting match, he'll call the whole thing off. And right now, he's worried my baby is gone.

[Paula Kurland]

And he sits there and talks about wanting to do good.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

I feel an awesome responsibility at times because ultimately, someone has to make the decision of whether or not it's safe enough for these people to get together.

[Paula Kurland]

The organ donation is not an issue. I think that it's a wonderful, beautiful thing, just not death row inmates.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

Okay, but that makes it an issue.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Derfler doesn't expect Paula to ever agree with Nobles, just to agree to disagree. So the meeting can happen.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

This is non negotiable.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He meets with Nobles again and asks him to write a letter laying out his case for organ donation. Maybe it will convince Paula.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

I feel very uncomfortable asking for belief or trust from you, but please reserve any judgments as to my motivation until I can stand before you face to face and you are able to test these things for yourself.

[Paula Kurland]

I mean, it's absolutely unfathomable to me that he could have so much gall. And he says, I'm sorry for what I've done, and I just want to bring some brightness in this life.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

Bullshit.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Paula is angry, but Derfler decides she's not too angry.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

The past cannot be changed. What do you do now?

[Narrator/Reporter]

The meeting will go ahead as planned.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

The mediation will take place back in the visitation area.

[Paula Kurland]

This is it, huh? I don't want to go in there and scream and rant and rave and carry on like an idiot.

[Prison Priest]

May the Lord bless you. May the Lord keep you transparent.

[Paula Kurland]

I mean, who knows how it's really going to go?

[Prison Priest]

Body of Christ.

[Paula Kurland]

Are we ready? Once I Get started talking. I'm sure that a lot of things that I've suppressed for a lot of years will come out. It's bottled in there, and I'm ready to let the cork off.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Its official name is Ellis unit 1.

[Paula Kurland]

The price is is horrible. I mean, even worse than that.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But here in Texas, it's better known as Death Row. The end of the line for more than 400 hardened, violent criminals.

[Paula Kurland]

It isn't going to be easy.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It's the last place in the world you'd want to visit.

[Paula Kurland]

I'm nervous.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Which makes what is about to happen this day.

[Paula Kurland]

But I'll be okay.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Even more amazing.

[Paula Kurland]

Jonathan is going to see what he took. Thanks. He's going to see Mitzi. Just say a prayer. Okay? He's going to see that she was real. All I can do is pray that God just lifts me and takes me in there and holds me while I'm there.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Paula Curland has waited 12 years to come to Death Row to confront Jonathan Nobles, her daughter's killer.

[Paula Kurland]

I'm not going in there for him to say I'm sorry. I mean, sorry won't cut it.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Paula's family didn't want to be here, so she's brought a few close friends. Friends for support. David Durfler, the mediator, is along to guide the conversation if he has to.

[Paula Kurland]

I imagine it's going to be extremely

[Narrator/Reporter]

emotional before they begin.

[Prison Priest]

You leave it in the hands of the Lord.

[Paula Kurland]

Yes.

[Prison Priest]

And first word is don't be afraid.

[Paula Kurland]

I'm not.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Paula gets a blessing from the prison priest.

[Prison Priest]

Grant them the grace that they may be reconciled with one another.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And then it's finally time to meet her daughter's killer face to face.

[Paula Kurland]

I'm willing to listen to what he has to say, but I don't have to believe anything he says. It's pretty hard, isn't it?

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

It's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. Dying is easier than this.

[Paula Kurland]

This is Mitzi.

[Paula Kurland (continued)]

She was a real person, Jonathan. She was real, and she was nothing to you. But she was my whole life. She was my baby. You can't imagine what you've done. You just don't know how much pain you've caused. There's just no way that you could possibly know what pain you've caused, what devastation.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

When you say that, I cannot understand the pain that I brought.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

No, I can't.

[Paula Kurland]

No, you can't.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

I wouldn't even begin to suggest that I could.

[Paula Kurland]

But thank you for that.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

And that's why I'm Here.

[Paula Kurland]

Do you realize you stabbed my daughter 28 times?

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

No, ma', am, I didn't remember the number.

[Paula Kurland]

It was 28 times

[Paula Kurland (continued)]

when you murdered Mitzi. You murdered me. My kids lost their mother. Can you give that back to me? Can you give that back to my kids?

[Chandler Leland]

Oh, ma'.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

Am.

[Paula Kurland (continued)]

I don't know what to do with you, Jonathan. I just don't know what to do with you. It's ripping me apart. It's just absolutely eating me alive. I don't know what to do with you.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It's just too much. Too much pain, too many conflicting emotions.

[Paula Kurland]

Excuse me, John.

[Narrator/Reporter]

As the sun sets over the barbed wire outside, Paula has to take a break, catch her breath and try to make sense of it all. Man, but there is so much more to.

[Paula Kurland]

Yeah, honey, I'm okay. I'm okay. It's just.

[Lemonade Pet Insurance Narrator]

She's just taking a break.

[Paula Kurland]

I'm just taking a breather.

[Narrator/Reporter]

They return to the meeting and find there is one thing they can agree on.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

I was a beast.

[Paula Kurland]

I agree. You scared a lot of people.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

Yes, I did.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Down the hall, Paula's friends wait and worry.

[Paula Kurland]

Ronnie's here and he's really, well, working very hard at this, too.

[Narrator/Reporter]

One of those friends is Ron Ross, Mitzi's former boyfriend. The victim who survived this is bringing

[Paula Kurland]

up a lot of very painful things for him.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Ron's been offered the chance to meet with Nobles, too.

[Ron Ross]

I just didn't feel like I could be in the same room and conduct myself in a sane manner.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But Ron doesn't even want to look at him. Back in the meeting, Paula and Nobles talk for hours with no end in sight about everything.

[Paula Kurland]

I don't want you to die from the upcoming execution. Just to die. I don't want that for anyone. To Mitzi's memory, it's not very satisfying going to a cemetery and saying, I love you, Mitzi. To a piece of bronze.

[Narrator/Reporter]

To the one critical issue that might still mean a stay of execution for Jonathan Nobles. Organ donation.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

You know that I started this organ donation issue a long time ago. Can I ask your permission for something?

[Paula Kurland]

If I can.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

If I do do this, can I publicly state that I'm doing this in memory of my victims?

[Paula Kurland]

I'm going to have to give that some thought.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Nobles tells Paula the story of his life of a bright kid gone terribly bad. Growing up, his high school threw him out, the Navy kicked him out, and his own mother tossed him out when he was 17.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

The last night I used was the night of the murders.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It was. Was all he says, because of drugs.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

I started the 12 step program when I was in the county jail.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Then as three hours turn to four

[Paula Kurland]

and then to five, I feel I've grown about 15ft.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Today, something extraordinary begins to happen.

[Paula Kurland]

Are you okay?

[Brenda (Paula's Sister)]

No.

[Paula Kurland]

Me too.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Paula's anger is slowly giving way to. Not sympathy, exactly, but understanding.

[Paula Kurland]

I feel compassion.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

I don't know that I deserve it.

[Paula Kurland]

No, you don't. But you have it.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

Thank you.

[Paula Kurland]

Do you have anything else you want to say?

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

Not this moment.

[Paula Kurland]

Yeah, me too.

[Narrator/Reporter]

They take another break, let me go

[Paula Kurland]

tell them I'm okay.

[Narrator/Reporter]

I know they're worried so Paula can reassure Ron. It's all going okay.

[Prison Priest]

I'm proud of you.

[Paula Kurland]

And I'm proud of you, too. I know. I know how hard this is for you. But I think it's gonna be okay, Ronald.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And then it's time to go back in one last time. David Doerfler, the mediator, speaks first.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

If I could be so, so bold to presume to use this time for your closing statements to wanna you first.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

Sorry'. I brutally murdered your daughter. I brutally murdered her friend.

[Paula Kurland]

Mm.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

I brought absolute horror into your life.

[Paula Kurland]

Mm.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

I don't know what else to say other than I'm sorry. And sorry seems so cheap. So, so very cheap. I have, Paula, tried to change my way of thinking, my way of life, my way of living. And that's not enough either. Nothing will ever be enough. But I am sorry. I honestly am sorry.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It's the second time Jonathan Nobles has apologized to Paula Kurland. The first was at his trial more than a decade ago. That time, she told him it wasn't enough. This time, it still isn't.

[Paula Kurland]

I wish I could just say it's okay. But it isn't okay.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But Paula says she does now believe Nobles is genuinely remorseful. And she is genuinely moved.

[Paula Kurland]

The best I can give you is my forgiveness. I can never forgive what you did. But the God that I believe in demands that I have to forgive you as a person.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

I respect that. Thank you. Thank you, Father.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

For your sake, Jonathan, thank you.

[Paula Kurland]

You're welcome. Thank you.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And with that, the meeting she fought for for 12 years is over. Now, in just two weeks, Nobles is scheduled to die.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

These people are going to take this arm, and they're going to put a needle in it, and they're going to inject me, and I'm dead.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And forgiveness or not, Paula still wants Nobles to pay with his life for killing her daughter.

[Paula Kurland]

I want to be the last person he's.

[Troy Roberts (Reporter)]

Face to face with her daughter's killer. The program that brought Paula Kurland into a Texas prison to confront Jonathan Wayne Nobles is unique. These days, many states arrange for the victims of crime to meet with their offenders, but it's almost always for lesser offenses. Only Texas includes inmates on death row. Now, even though she offered him a measure of forgiveness, Paula still wants to witness Jonathan Noble's execution for the death of her daughter. That part of their story a bit later on. But first, Troy Roberts reports on how such emotionally charged confrontations are looked upon in another state and on some victims who are in no mood for forgiveness.

[Chandler Leland]

He grabbed her, brought her in here.

[Tom Hanks (World War II Podcast Promo)]

This morning, we picked up suspect a roy David Brooks.

[Jimmy Leland]

14 years after Jimmy Leland's wife was murdered.

[Chandler Leland]

That son of a bitch didn't have to kill her.

[Paula Kurland]

Next case is number 41.

[Jimmy Leland]

Her killer, Roy Brooks, is being considered for parole.

[Chandler Leland]

He should never get out of jail.

[Paula Kurland]

Okay, we're ready for.

[Jimmy Leland]

In South Carolina, unlike in Texas, where Paula Curlin lives, there are no mediation hearings.

[Paula Kurland]

I've been here 10 years.

[Jimmy Leland]

No efforts to bring the criminal and the victim's families together.

[Parole Board Member]

Thank you so much.

[Jimmy Leland]

And that's exactly how Jimmy Leland likes it.

[Chandler Leland]

I don't even have to tell him how I feel. If it would make him feel any worse, I would. But I'm not going to go looking for the chance to tell him, you know? God, he's got to know. I mean, he's got to know.

[Jimmy Leland]

Jimmy Leland runs a commercial dock in McClellanville, a small fishing village on the South Carolina coast. Roy Brooks came here intending to rob this post office. Jimmy's wife Evelyn worked at the town's post office.

[Chandler Leland]

She just hung out right here till she came through that door. And when she did, that's when he grabbed her.

[Jimmy Leland]

Roy Brooks was her last customer of the day.

[Chandler Leland]

When I couldn't get an answer on the phone, I knew something was wrong. And then when I couldn't answer, get an answer when I drove up here, I mean, I was shaking.

[Jimmy Leland]

Inside the post office, Jimmy found his wife's body. She had been beaten.

[Chandler Leland]

That's where she was hanging.

[Jimmy Leland]

Then strangled with a canvas strap.

[Chandler Leland]

And I took my pocket knife and cut the strap.

[Jimmy Leland]

And she was dead when you found her?

[Chandler Leland]

There is a picture here.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

That's a great picture.

[Chandler Leland]

Channel would have been two.

[Jimmy Leland]

Do you have any memories of your mom?

[Chandler Leland]

Vaguely.

[Jimmy Leland]

Chandler Leland, a college freshman, was just four years old when his mother was murdered.

[Brenda (Paula's Sister)]

I grew up without a mother for, you know, so I guess whatever that. Whatever that's like, I guess I miss that.

[Narrator/Reporter]

You don't know what to compare it to, do you?

[Ron Ross]

Nope.

[Chandler Leland]

He's very bitter toward the fellow who did it. I mean, he hates him, which I hate him too. Well, hate.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Yeah, I do.

[Chandler Leland]

I hate him.

[Jimmy Leland]

You don't have to be at this hearing.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

No, no, no. Why are you going?

[Chandler Leland]

It's never crossed my mind not to. That'll get me there and back.

[Jimmy Leland]

Number 16 the next day in Columbia, Timothy Gossett. Jimmy and Chandler are there. I'm ready to be a law abiding citizen. The parole board has a full docket of cases to review.

[Paula Kurland]

The next case is number 41, Roy Brooks. We have opposition. Jimmy Leland, the victim's husband.

[Jimmy Leland]

Roy Brooks hearing is among 60 cases that will be heard today before the state parole board. He'll speak to the six member panel first, then the Leland family will have their turn. In South Carolina, in contrast to Texas, official policy, Roy, you make parole. Always keeps perpetrators and victims far apart.

[Paula Kurland]

You do not see or hear the inmate. And the inmate. Inmate does not see or hear you.

[Jimmy Leland]

The parole hearings are conducted by closed circuit television.

[Narrator/Reporter]

I've earned three degrees since I've been locked up in this.

[Jimmy Leland]

The board doesn't allow a direct face off.

[Narrator/Reporter]

I would like you to understand that until this happened, for 37 years, I lived a pretty exemplary life.

[Jimmy Leland]

During Brooks presentation, Jimmy Chandler and their relatives are kept in a waiting room.

[Chandler Leland]

You remember when he was on the witness stand, he never said he was sorry.

[Jimmy Leland]

Where the discussion turns to. To questions of fairness and forgiveness.

[Parole Board Member]

We thank you all for coming in. If you step outside, y' all come in and have a seat, please.

[Jimmy Leland]

When the time comes to address the

[Chandler Leland]

board, if I could make a brief statement, please.

[Jimmy Leland]

Jimmy Leland speaks for the family.

[Chandler Leland]

Just for the record, because we'll be back again, I'm sure. But I hope he's comfortable where he is because we'd like to see him stay for a long, long time. He took a wonderful person away. Thank you.

[Jimmy Leland]

The panel quickly reached.

[Parole Board Member]

Roy Brooks is rejected. Number one, two and three.

[Jimmy Leland]

Did you have to think long and hard about it?

[Parole Board Member]

No, because he. His sentence was for life. Roy Brooks took a life.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

I was not violent in any respect.

[Jimmy Leland]

Since they couldn't watch Brooks's testimony, the family wanted to see our videotape of the hearing.

[Chandler Leland]

Hell, he didn't apologize for anything. He never said he was sorry.

[Parole Board Member]

Never.

[Chandler Leland]

The whole time, never said he was sorry. Did anybody hear him say he was sorry? He's not remorseful. And that's got to be the first step.

[Jimmy Leland]

Remorse.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles (Confession/Meeting)]

I am sorry. I honestly am sorry.

[Paula Kurland]

I know you Are Jonathan in Texas,

[Jimmy Leland]

remorse made forgiveness easier to offer. Can you find it in your heart to forgive?

[Brenda (Paula's Sister)]

No, Brooks.

[Paula Kurland]

Not at all. Not at all.

[Chandler Leland]

I really don't see how I can forgive him. I mean, he had to be there.

[Jimmy Leland]

But in South Carolina, he loved going in the creek. In this case, forgiveness is all but impossible now.

[Chandler Leland]

Well, as long as life lasts, there's breath in me he won't get out. I mean, if I got anything to say about it.

[Paula Kurland]

To that. Today I'm going to go witness an execution. I'm going to go watch a man die. The closer it comes, the more in tune to one's mortality you become, you know, and it's just not a good thing. I'm going to be very sad. I am very Sad.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It's been 12 years since her daughter Mitzi was brutally murdered.

[Prison Priest]

Our father who art in heaven.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And two weeks since she confronted the man who killed her and told him he was forgiven.

[Paula Kurland]

He's probably having his last lunch about now.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Now in just a few hours, what, five hours now, Jonathan Nobles will receive the ultimate punishment.

[Paula Kurland]

Five hours and ten minutes.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Paula Curlin Composure will be there to watch.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

The only way that I'm not gonna die is if Governor George Bush J. Jr. Commutes my sentence.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And even Nobles knows a last minute pardon isn't likely.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

These people are going to take this arm and they're going to put a needle in it and they're going to inject me and I'm dead.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yesterday the court made a final decision on Nobles. Request to donate his organs denied.

[Paula Kurland]

I feel sadness. I'm going to grieve for Jonathan.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It's a far cry from the way she felt just two weeks ago.

[Paula Kurland]

He's going to.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Here's what she had to say back then.

[Paula Kurland]

And I feel no sympathy for him.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But since their meeting, everything has changed.

[Paula Kurland]

It's just terribly confusing right now.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Well, almost everything.

[Paula Kurland]

But it doesn't change my views on the death penalty.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Paula still wants Nobles to pay for the murder of her daughter.

[Paula Kurland]

I can't even think right now. It's getting closer and closer and closer.

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

Now Nobles would was convicted of stabbing

[Narrator/Reporter]

two Austin women to death outside the prison. Texas Rangers block off the street to keep death penalty protesters at a distance.

[Carla Connolly (Prosecutor)]

Jonathan Nobles has been fasting all day.

[Narrator/Reporter]

At a few minutes to six, will you see everything?

[Paula Kurland]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Paula and the other witnesses are led into the prison.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Will you look at his face? Will you look at the surroundings? Will you. Will you hold someone's hand? Do you have any idea what you're

[Paula Kurland]

going to do probably all of the above.

[Narrator/Reporter]

While inside, guards walked Nobles from his cell to the execution chamber.

[Paula Kurland]

He's been basically in control of my life for 12 years, and today I'll be getting my life back.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

It's now 1 minute till 6 o', clock, the hour Paula Kurland has been waiting for with mixed emotions for all these many years. If everything goes according to schedule, at 6 o', clock, Jonathan Wayne Nobles will be given the three injections that, when admitted together, make up the lethal injection. The first one will put him to sleep. The second will stop his breathing. The third one will stop his heart.

[Paula Kurland]

It was a very difficult thing to witness.

[Narrator/Reporter]

By 6:25, it's all over. Afterwards, Noble's body is taken to a church down the street for a memorial service led by a bishop who met Nobles on death. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

[Jonathan Wayne Nobles]

Amen.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

When you went into the room, he was already on the gurney?

[Paula Kurland]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Strapped in, yeah.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Lord, accept the sacrifice we offer for our brother Jonathan.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

He talked to you directly. What did he say?

[Paula Kurland]

He just said, paula, I love you and I'm sorry.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And then just before he died, Nobles began singing, singing Silent Night.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

He just sang until he stop singing. What was going through your mind when you watched him sing and then stop and then die?

[Paula Kurland]

Well, it just. It just kind of took my breath away. It was,

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Bottom line, did the punishment fit the crime?

[Paula Kurland]

Yes. Yes.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

This was the way it had to be done.

[Paula Kurland]

This is the way it had to be done.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And now for Paula, it's time to start working on the toughest part of all, getting on with her life.

[Paula Kurland]

I feel light. I just feel like something has just left my body. But first, David came up to me and he said, jonathan has left something for you. I think that she would have been very pleased with the way everything went, and I think she would have been proud of me.

[Narrator/Reporter]

For Paula Curlin, the last few weeks have been an emotional roller coaster from grief to anger, and now, remarkably, to peace.

[Paula Kurland]

Jonathan isn't going to be a weight and a focal point in my life anymore.

[Narrator/Reporter]

With Nobles dead, he can no longer haunt her.

[Paula Kurland]

David came up to me and he said, jonathan has left something for you.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Or can he?

[Paula Kurland]

I was really kind of shocked.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Just one day after his execution, Jonathan Nobles gives Paula one more shock. He's left her a gift, a medal he wore around his neck.

[Paula Kurland]

I think it was a good thing to leave behind.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But is this a genuine sign of remorse? Or is Nobles manipulating Paula from beyond

[Paula Kurland]

the grave to give it to someone is to give it with. With love.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The medal goes in the cedar chest with Mitzi's mementos, the photos and the memories.

[Paula Kurland]

A good end to a terrible tragedy.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It's what Paula says she wants to do.

[Paula Kurland]

And I'll be able to let it go. I'll be able to let Mitzi rest, which is going to be nice for my family. They're completely cut off from the outside world.

[Tom Hanks (World War II Podcast Promo)]

A new Paramount plus documentary.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The narrative is we are a cult. No.

[David Derfler (Mediator)]

I'm doing this out of my own free will.

[Tom Hanks (World War II Podcast Promo)]

Gives unprecedented access to Gloria Vale, the controversial closed society in New Zealand.

[Jimmy Leland]

38 charges of sexually offending children.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Wrong things have occurred. They do not define who we are.

[Paula Kurland]

Can't you just accept the fact that I love my life?

[Tom Hanks (World War II Podcast Promo)]

I need to destroy them. Devotion, obedience or betrayal. Now streaming on Paramount plus.