Post Mortem | Joe Hunter’s Mission

Summary

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48 Hours: Post Mortem | Joe Hunter’s Mission

Date: December 16, 2025
Host: Anne-Marie Green
Guest Correspondent: Natalie Morales

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Episode Overview

This episode of the 48 Hours "Post Mortem" series delves into the unresolved and complex case of Joanna Hunter’s death in 2011, the unwavering pursuit of justice by her brother, Sacramento Fire Captain (and Survivor contestant) Joe Hunter, and the sweeping impact of domestic violence on investigative practices and legislation. Host Anne-Marie Green and correspondent Natalie Morales explore the facts, competing theories, personal heartbreak, and legal reform inspired by Joanna’s story.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Hunter Family’s Fight for Justice

• Background: In October 2011, Joanna Hunter was found dead in her Vacaville, CA home, hanging in her closet. Her death was ruled a suicide, but her family believes her husband, Pastor Mark Lewis, was responsible after years of domestic abuse ([01:14] - [02:19]).
• Joe’s Grief and Survivor Journey: Joe Hunter, especially close to Joanna, was left with deep grief and unresolved questions. Inspired by his sister and encouraged by his counselor, Joe joined Survivor, using his platform to raise awareness about domestic violence ([03:33] Joe Hunter quote at [04:10]).

2. The Aftermath—Evidence, Regrets, and Investigative Gaps

• Last Conversation: Joe’s regret is palpable, as he and Joanna argued during their final conversation, believing she was close to leaving her husband. “He felt like he couldn't protect her from what she was going through. You hear that in the episode…” (Natalie Morales, [05:25]).
• Investigation Critiques: Despite restraining orders and a documented abuse history, the crime scene was not handled thoroughly—no fingerprints/DNA were taken, and only an external autopsy was performed ([09:09]-[10:16]).
  • “There were no homicide investigators responding to the scene. The bedroom was not treated at all like a crime scene.” (Natalie Morales, [09:09])

3. Patterns of Abuse and New Crimes

• Mark Lewis’s Continued Violence: After Joanna’s death, Mark Lewis began dating another woman, Sarah Nottingham. The relationship escalated into stalking, arson, and ultimately led to Lewis’s conviction for orchestrating a firebombing of her parents' house ([10:56]-[12:45]).
• Sentence: Mark Lewis served five years of an eight-year sentence and now lives in Arizona ([14:24]).

4. Seeking Mark Lewis’s Side

• Attempted Contact: 48 Hours contacted Mark Lewis to respond to allegations. He refused to comment, even when approached at his home ([14:24]-[16:37]).
  • “We tried multiple ways to reach him... We wanted to give him that chance.” (Natalie Morales, [15:10])

5. Reopening the Case and New Forensic Insights

• Timeline Discrepancies: Friend Andrew Alvarado, who provided Mark Lewis’s alibi on the night of Joanna’s death, changed his story when re-interviewed, weakening Lewis’s alibi ([16:37]-[17:50]).
• DNA Findings: New testing found unknown male DNA (not Mark Lewis) on the bathrobe sash used in Joanna's hanging ([18:21]).
• Dueling Pathology Opinions:
  • Dr. Bill Smock, a forensic expert, concluded from scene photos that Joanna was strangled with a nautical rope while alive, and the bathrobe sash was applied post-mortem—a classic "hidden homicide" staged as suicide ([19:15]).
  • Law enforcement and other pathologists dispute this, maintaining a finding of suicide ([21:09]).

6. The Concept of Hidden Homicide & Advocacy

• Advocacy Groups: Casey Gwynn and Gail Strack (Alliance for Hope International) explain “hidden homicides”—where death scenes are manipulated to disguise murder as suicide. They cite the staggering statistic: “If a woman has been strangled more than once before, there is almost a 750 times greater likelihood that she is going to be killed by her partner.” (Natalie Morales, [21:44])
• Victim Risk Factors: The most dangerous time for victims is when they try to leave ([23:10]).
  • “When you analyze a suspicious death or any death, you have to look at victimology. … The most dangerous time for victims of domestic violence is when they leave.” (Gail Strack, [23:10])

7. Joanna’s Law—Turning Tragedy into Reform

• Joanna’s Law: Due largely to the advocacy of Joanna’s family, especially her mother Patricia, California enacted Joanna’s Law (effective Jan 1, 2025), mandating authorities checking for domestic violence history in all suicides, overdoses, or accidents. The law also expands next of kin notifications ([25:30]).
  • “Patricia went to every legislative hearing, she always had on the bench a large 8 by 10 picture of Joanna.” (Natalie Morales, [25:30])
• Hope for National Change: Advocates are working for a national rollout of Joanna’s Law ([26:37]).

8. Current Status & What’s Next

• Department Review: California DOJ is reviewing the DA's decision not to charge Mark Lewis—but is not opening a new investigation ([26:47]).
• Joe’s Future: Joe Hunter returns for Survivor Season 50 and continues advocacy ([27:10]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joe Hunter on Survivor as Grief Work ([04:10]):
  “My counselor said to do something really spectacular would be to help you manage the situation with Joanna. … She did tell me we should do this. … so on a whim I said, I'm gonna give this a shot for her. … it was awesome feeling.”
• Natalie Morales on Regret and Protection ([05:25]):
  “He struggles so much to this day, is that in the end, he felt like he couldn't protect her from what she was going through.”
• On Investigation Shortfalls ([09:09]):
  "There were no homicide investigators responding to the scene. The bedroom was not treated at all like a crime scene."
• Dr. Bill Smock on Staging ([19:15]):
  “There are two different … ligature marks on her neck. One is a red welt … (when) her heart was still pumping. … The bathrobe sash … was applied after she was already dead, meaning her heart had stopped.”
• Advocate Statistic ([21:44]):
  “If a woman has been strangled more than once before, there is almost a 750 times greater likelihood that she is going to be killed by her partner.” (Casey Gwynn and Gail Strack)
• Gail Strack on Leaving as High-Risk ([23:10]):
  “The most dangerous time for victims of domestic violence is when they leave. And that's when those stranglers become stalkers. … If they can't have her, no one will.”
• Natalie Morales on Inspiration ([27:20]):
  “Joe is … really one of the most inspirational families I think I have ever met. … The message overall is that you can leave. You will survive. You just need to take that first big step and to find your support.”

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Important Timestamps

• [01:14] - Case introduction: Joanna’s death and family suspicions
• [04:10] - Joe Hunter describes Survivor motivation
• [09:09] - Natalie Morales critiques the investigation
• [10:56] - Mark Lewis’s arson and stalking conviction
• [16:37] - Timeline issues and reopening of investigation
• [18:21] - DNA evidence discovery
• [19:15] - Dr. Smock’s hidden homicide theory
• [21:44] - The “750x risk” statistic; hidden homicide advocacy
• [25:30] - Origins and impact of Joanna’s Law
• [26:47] - DOJ review and the push for justice

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Conclusion

“Joe Hunter’s Mission” artfully traces one family’s quest for answers and justice, the enduring pain of unhealed loss, and how persistence can drive legislative change. The episode weaves together personal struggle, forensic controversy, and the transformative power of advocacy, making it a standout in both emotional impact and societal import. Listeners are left with a call for vigilance, reform, and hope.

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Transcript

[Natalie Morales]

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[Ann Marie Green]

Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your host Ann Marie Green and today we're Discussing Sacramento Fire Captain Joe Hunter, who you might know from the CBS TV show Survivor. He competed in season 48 and he's going to be back again for next year's season, season 50. If you watch the show, you know that Joe talked about the profound impact of losing his sister Joanna. Back in 2011, 36 year old Joanna was found dead in her Vacaville, California home, hanging inside a bedroom closet by a bathrobe sash. Her death was ruled a suicide, but her family believes that her husband and church pastor Mark Lewis killed her after a history of domestic violence. Now to this day, Mark Lewis has not been charged with any crime relating to the death of Joanna. Joining me now to discuss this case is 48 Hours correspondent Natalie Morales, who was the one who reported on this. Natalie, there's, there's so many elements to this case, so much to talk about.

[Natalie Morales]

You know, I've done true crime stories now for more than a decade. And I gotta say, for me, and I also know for my crew, the team that worked on this, this is definitely one that stands out. It had such an impact on all of us. Probably the most meaningful and heartfelt, I think in my career and I've never really felt more purpose in telling a story than I have with this One.

[Ann Marie Green]

I am not surprised. As you know, after I watched it, I immediately emailed you. I was. My mind was blown and I found myself, you know, speaking to the screen over and over again. I wanna remind everyone, if you haven't listened to this episode of 48 Hours, head on over to your podcast feed. You're gonna find the full audio of this episode right below this podcast. Go listen, come on back. We're gonna have a conversation. So a bit of a recap for everyone. Since Joanna's death In October of 2011, her brother Joe and mother Patricia have never wavered in their belief that Joanna's husband Mark killed her and staged the crime scene to look like a suicide. Joe was especially close to his big sister Joanna, and they often talked about competing together one day on the long running CBS series Survivor.

[Natalie Morales]

Yes, he and Joanna had loved the show. They talked about competing on the show. He was never really thinking he was actually going to apply to be a contestant. But, you know, when he was overcome with his grief, he, you know, had lost his sister and then later lost his dad. There was just so much trauma that he was dealing with. He was meeting with a counselor at the time and the counselor told him, you know, maybe you should do something with your grief. Here's a clip that didn't make it into the hour. Why it was important for him to be a contestant on Survivor.

[Joe Hunter]

And my counselor said to do something really spectacular would be to help you manage the situation with Joanna. Just do something for you and her to help close the door. And I thought back and I said she had always mentioned it. She actually was a super fan wife is too. And I thought she did tell me we should do this. And I thought, all right, I'll give it a shot. So on a whim, I said, I'm gonna give this a shot for her. And it took off. It just was awesome feeling. It took off. So, you know, my big sis again helping me out and it went well and it landed me on the shell.

[Natalie Morales]

He said he sent in his audition and he didn't think it was gonna go anywhere until he got that call back. But he said his true reason for wanting to be on the show was to bring awareness about domestic violence and wanted to bring some sense of justice to her case and to her death.

[Ann Marie Green]

It's sort of stunning to me, maybe because I'm an only child, but how much they look like each other. And I feel like as I watched the hour, they began to look more and more like each other. Almost like tw.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Natalie Morales]

And you know, as you said, they were very close growing up. She always was sort of the protector as the older sister, and that's why I think he struggles so much to this day, is that in the end, he felt like he couldn't protect her from what she was going through. You know, as he said, he had so much regret. You hear that in the episode. Because they had actually had an argument in their last conversation before she died. Mm.

[Ann Marie Green]

What did they fight about?

[Natalie Morales]

He thought she was going to leave Mark Lewis, and she was so close. Joanna's mother, Patricia and Jo said, you know, the year before she died, she was almost going to leave, and then she ended up going back to him.

[Ann Marie Green]

I'm not surprised that he's doing Survivor again, because he really was kind of a standout competitor. These reality shows can be cutthroat, but in this case, you have somebody who was just incredibly competitive but incredibly compassionate.

[Natalie Morales]

I don't know if you remember the episode where, I mean, I think everybody. It's the moment that went Viral from season 48, where he helped a contestant, Eva, out in a really big way. Eva was the first cast member on Survivor to talk about living with autism. So early in the game, she told Jo, I guess she saw him, you know, as this great father, always talked about his kids. She felt that she could. So she confided in him. And it was during a competition on the show that she did become overwhelmed and overstimulated, and Joe could see that. And he went over to her. He crossed tribal lines to be able to do that. And he took her hands and held her still. Thinking about that moment gets me emotional, and it was such an incredible moment.

[Ann Marie Green]

So in terms of the case, Joanna's case, she's got this brother who would always look out for her. And I think that that is one of the things about this particular hour that really stood out to me. I think it really sort of reinforced how challenging it is for victims of domestic violence to get out of that situation.

[Natalie Morales]

Yeah, that's right. And there had been a history of repeated abuse, which was very much documented. She had taken out restraining orders against Mark Lewis. So that said, Joe really believes that Mark Lew killed his sister and then staged the scene to make it look like a suicide. What is called a hidden homicide. And we're gonna talk about that more in a little bit. But I even asked Joe and Patricia both if she ever showed signs of being suicidal. You know, Joe did say she may have been upset. Of course, you know, she was going through a lot. But in his Heart of hearts. He believed she was ready to leave. Mark Lewis. What's interesting is investigators did this empty suitcase in the closet next to her with a note that read, take care of the dogs. So the investigators thought that was a suicide note. Now, Patricia saw the note a few weeks later, and she vehemently disagreed. She said that when Joanna had come home before, you know, she didn't bring the dogs because Joanna's late father had severe asthma. So Patricia believes that she was just in her mind saying, take care of the dogs.

[Ann Marie Green]

So an autopsy report determined that the ligature marks on her neck were consistent with the suicide. There were no signs of a struggle. Toxicology report comes back, it is clean. And the county sheriff's office then closes the case.

[Natalie Morales]

Right. And I. And I asked the Solano County Sheriff's Department spokesperson, Captain Jackson Harris, who's in charge of field operations. Now, according to Harris, he pointed out, again, again, there was no evidence of a struggle, no evidence of force, that another person was there even to kill her. But as we reported in the Hour, there were no homicide investigators responding to the scene. The bedroom was not treated at all like a crime scene. No fingerprints were taken. No DNA was tested. The cell phones. Cause there were cell phones in 2011. They were not collected. Officers did take pictures of the note, and they did an external autopsy only, not an internal autopsy, meaning that, you know, they just looked at the injury, the ligature marks on her neck, and they didn't see, you know, any signs of struggle on her body. That said, they did do a toxicology test, and that all came back clean. So the evidence, according to the investigators, supported a suicide.

[Ann Marie Green]

I think we should remind people, too. Medical examiners, you know, they certainly look at the body, but they also take the additional information that they get from officers who were at the crime scene to help them kind of come to a conclusion. Which then brings me to the history of domestic violence. Was that not part of their investigation?

[Natalie Morales]

Right. You know, I pressed Captain Harris on that. Mark Lewis, this was 15 years prior, was convicted of domestic violence when he sent Joanna to the hospital with a sprained neck. So Captain Harris said, because this was an incident that happened 15 years prior, that that would not have been available to the deputy in the field at the time.

[Ann Marie Green]

So then we learned that a little more than two years after Joanna's death, Mark Lewis is arrested, and he's charged for something else. Arson, stalking, and conspiracy against another woman who he had started dating, Sarah Nottingham. You spoke to Sarah. What did she say about that experience? What did you learn from her.

[Natalie Morales]

Well, Sarah was a member of the church and she and Mark were friends at first. And then the relationship evolved after Joanna's death into a romantic relationship. She told us that Mark Lewis became more controlling. He would sometimes become a little physically rough with her. The final straw, she said, was when she discovered that there were text messages that Mark Lewis allegedly sent to an underage girl. That's when she tried to end the relationship. She said at the time he wasn't ready for the relationship to be over. She and her kids had at the time been living with her parents and he was calling constantly the house. And by 2014 we then hear of this incident where a Molotov cocktail was thrown in the overnight hours into her parents home and and it lit a fire. I mean, fortunately they were all able to extinguish the fire before the fire department got there. But the police determined that Mark had hired three people. The three were picked up that night. They confessed to the act, saying that Mark Lewis hired us to do this. He ultimately pleaded no contest to the arson and stalking charges, but he was sentenced to eight years in prison, although he served five.

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[Natalie Morales]

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[Ann Marie Green]

Welcome back. Well, after serving five years of his eight year sentence for the firebombing of Sarah Nottingham's house, Mark Lewis was released on parole. He's currently living in Arizona. He has a new wife. He is working for a plumbing and drain cleaning company. And 48 Hours reached out to him several times to see if he wanted to respond and participate. He did not respond. And so you and producers actually went to his front door. You had a hidden camera. I'm curious about what that was like and I want people to know that it wasn't about sort of catching him off guard. This is about giving him every possible opportunity to respond to these accusations.

[Natalie Morales]

Absolutely. You're absolutely. Thank you so much for pointing that out. This was, you know, our intention truly going there was just to get his side of the story. And we, and we tried multiple ways to reach him. We sent him letters, we called people, you know, who were associated with him. We tried to call him. We were able to find out, though, that he was living in Arizona with his new wife's family. And we approached him because we wanted to give him that chance. We didn't know even if he would be home. Turned out when we arrived there he was standing outside his front door in the gated area with his wife and his dog. I knew that, you know, we were in a situation where Mark Lewis probably would be surprised that we were there. And maybe I had like two to three questions that I'd be able to get in. So I point blank asked him, you know, if he wanted to say anything, if he wanted to tell his side of the story, and he said no. And he walked back in the house and closed the door. So that's when we saw, you know, the garage door was open and Lewis's father in law was in the garage. And so we went over there and asked him a few questions and I asked him if there was anything he would like to tell the Hunter family. And, and he said anything he wanted to tell them, he already told them in prayer. And he felt, you know, that Mark Lewis had served the time that he had served for Sarah Nottingham's arson and the stalking charges.

[Ann Marie Green]

Mm. Well, you know, it is the conviction that he received for the Sarah Nottingham case that helped to reignite the pressure to reopen Joanna's case. The wheels start to turn in 2014. The Solano County Sheriff's office reopened the case, and they tracked down Andrew Alvarado, who had actually called 911 the night Joanna died. And he'd originally told investigators that he had been with Mark playing basketball since 3pm that would have meant that they were playing basketball for about six hours. But when they re interviewed him in 2014, we learned that he actually left during that timeframe. And so he wasn't actually with Lewis the entire time and doesn't know what he was doing when he was gone.

[Natalie Morales]

Yeah. You know, and it's key nailing down sort of this timeline. Joe Hunter, as you heard, he found it hard to believe that Mark Lewis was outside playing basketball for six hours straight. Didn't go into the house once to go to the bathroom to get a glass of water. I should point out, we tried to reach Andrew Alvarado. We never heard back from him. Multiple times we tried calling him. He wouldn't return our calls.

[Ann Marie Green]

And I will give it to the sheriff's office because they had another forensic pathologist look at Joanna's case, and that person agreed with the original coroner that Joanna's death was a suicide. The case was closed again. And then in 2015, the county district attorney's office announced its own investigation, which included testing DNA on Joanna's bathrobe sash. And the result is something quite interesting.

[Natalie Morales]

They found her DNA, as you would expect, on her bathrobe sash. And they also found the DNA of an unknown male, not Mark Lewis. They tested it, according to Captain Harris in codis, which is, you know, the criminal database system, and there were no hits on that. So to this day, they still don't know who that male DNA belongs to. Mm.

[Ann Marie Green]

So then, you know, Joanna's family is stuck again. But for years, they kept on trying to sort of push this case forward. Then an advocacy group called alliance for Hope asked for another expert to review the case, and the sheriff's office agrees. The expert is Dr. Bill Smock. And he told you, I'm going to quote him here, every injury will tell you a story if you take the time to analyze it.

[Natalie Morales]

Yes. And, you know, he came to a very different conclusion about what he saw based on the photographs of the scene and the photographs of Joanna's body. So, you know, at the time, police reported that the noose was a bathrobe sash, as we've talked about. Well, Dr. Smock looks at the scene. Then three feet from Joanna's body, there is a nautical rope at the bottom of the closet, which Dr. Smock said, you know, this is completely out of place. And this was something that was not seen before or was not taken in as evidence. And Dr. Smock points out there are two different. What he sees ligature marks on her neck. One is a red welt. He says it's red because her body was still alive, her heart was still pumping blood. Whereas the bathrobe sash mark, which he views in the picture as sort of the wider yellowish mark, he said it was yellow because at that point in time, that was. The bathrobe sash was applied after she was already dead, meaning her heart had stopped. So he believes that Joanna had been strangled with nautical rope. And then he believes that then the bathrobe sash was applied after Joanna was dead.

[Ann Marie Green]

You spoke to Captain Harris about this?

[Natalie Morales]

Yes, I did. And Captain Harris questioned Dr. Smock's credentials. Let's play a little bit of that.

[Ann Marie Green]

Dr. Smock has never done an autopsy in his life.

[Natalie Morales]

Dr. Smock has reviewed thousands of autopsies. So, correct.

[Ann Marie Green]

I can review just as many things.

[Natalie Morales]

And provide an opinion as well. So I asked Harris then if he was discounting everything in Smock's report. He said he was discounting the conclusion. He was disputing it, saying that there was no evidence it was a homicide, that it was a suicide.

[Ann Marie Green]

And we should note that Captain Harris also said that they had the former president of the national association of Medical Examiners do a review. And he also concluded it was a suicide.

[Natalie Morales]

That's right.

[Ann Marie Green]

In the hour we meet Casey Gwynn and Gail Strack, co founders of alliance for Hope International, which is an advocacy group for survivors of domestic violence and their families. They agree with Dr. Schmock's assessment that Joanna's scene was staged in what they refer to as a hidden homicide.

[Natalie Morales]

Hidden homicides are when homicides are staged to look like a suicide or an accident. And Casey told me, you know, domestic violence homicides are the number one staged murders in America. You know, Casey told us, if you kill your wife or you kill your girlfriend, everybody's gonna be looking at you as a suspect. So you have to stage it to make it look like something else. You know, Joanna's history of neck injuries, documented by her visits to the hospital, by the number of times she took out restraining orders on Mark Lewis, that police had to come to the house. That all informed them that they were looking at a case of a young woman who had experienced strangulation in the past. And they told me this astounding statistic. If a woman has been strangled more than once before, there is almost a 750 times greater likelihood that she is going to be killed by her partner. This is based on an academic report, which is just stunning when you think about that.

[Ann Marie Green]

This is a very important red flag. The experience working on Joanna's case actually led Casey and Gail to create a checklist of 10 factors to be considered by law enforcement, and they began drafting a new law. The law included the red flags that could signal a homicide.

[Natalie Morales]

Yes, and I'm gonna look down and read a few of them because they're so important. Okay. First is if the scene of the death gives the appearance of death due to suicide or an accident, if there is a history of being victimized by domestic violence, that includes strangulation or suffocation, and if one partner wanted to end the relationship at the time. Now, Casey and Gayle told us that in Joanna Hunter's case, There were all 10 factors present. Wow. So, Anne Marie, remember when I. When I told you that Joanna had left the note in an empty suitcase? We didn't have time to include this exchange in the hour, but Gail explains why, in a case where domestic abuse is involved, when a victim wants to leave the relationship, it is the most dangerous time in that relationship. Take a listen. When you analyze a suspicious death or when you analyze any death, you have to look at victimology. Was this victim who died at risk of being killed? So a victim of domestic violence is at risk. A victim who has been strangled is at risk. Is she trying to leave her partner? The most dangerous time for victims of domestic violence is when they leave. And that's when those stranglers become stalkers. And if they can't have her, no one will. Stranglers become stalkers and then sometimes even become killers. Yes. Casey Gwynn shared an interesting perspective as well. You know, often, you know, as we've heard, in these cases of domestic abuse, so much of the focus tends to be about the victim. Why did they stay is the question. You know, instead of why did the abuser do this to them? That should be the question. That's where the focus should really be.

[Ann Marie Green]

So let's talk about a bright light with this dark tragedy. And it's about the passage of Joanna's Law. It became law in California. State law in California, January 1, 2025. Joanna's Law requires investigators responding to reports of suicide, drug overdoses, or fatal accidents to check for a history of domestic violence. Casey Gwynn and Gail Strack helped write Joanna's Law. How involved, though, were Patricia and Joe in pushing this?

[Natalie Morales]

Very, very involved. You know, Patricia went to Every legislative hearing, she always had on the bench a large 8 by 10 picture of Joanna right next to her. One of the points that I want to make about Joanna's Law, you know, Mark Lewis was the only person who was considered next of kin back then because there was no obligation for law enforcement, you know, when Joanna died, for them to call Patricia or Joe or the family to notify them. So this happens often in domestic violence cases. And Patricia told me, you know, who is more next of kin than a mother? Joanna's Law has now changed that. Now, although Joanna's Law is only in the state of California as of now, Casey and Gail are very hopeful that with all this attention on this case and others, that this will extend, expand nationally. And I should mention we're also seeing some cases that we're working on at 48 hours here in the state of California where Joanna's Law is allowing those cases now to come under review again.

[Ann Marie Green]

Wow, that is interesting. So I, I presume that that's what's next is, is to push for kind of a national rollout of this law. Anything else?

[Natalie Morales]

That's the hope. We also learned in terms of Joanna's case that the California Department of Justice has agreed to review the Solano County DA's decision not to bring criminal charges in the case. The Hunters hope that that might change things. However, I should point out the California Department of Justice told us in a statement that they are not conducting a new investigation.

[Ann Marie Green]

So Joe Hunter is returning to Survivor. He's going to be participating in season 50. It premieres February 2026. I know I'll be rooting for him.

[Natalie Morales]

Joe is and Patricia, the Hunter family, really one of the most inspirational families I think I have ever met. And, you know, I think the message overall is that you can leave. You will survive. You just need to take that first big step and to find your support.

[Ann Marie Green]

Indeed, you and the producers did an excellent job. It's such a moving episode and, and I'm gonna say it's probably one of the best for the season for sure.

[Natalie Morales]

Thank you.

[Ann Marie Green]

If someone you know is a victim of domestic violence, call 1-800-799-SAFE or visit thehotline.org.

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