Post Mortem | The Day Maddi Kingsbury Went Missing

Summary

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48 Hours: Post Mortem | The Day Maddi Kingsbury Went Missing

Podcast: 48 Hours
Host: Ann Marie Green
Guests: Correspondent Peter Van Sant, Producer Jordan Kinsey
Date: September 2, 2025
Case: Disappearance and murder of Madeline (“Maddi”) Kingsbury

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Overview of the Episode

This episode of the "Post Mortem" series delves deep into the disappearance and murder of Maddi Kingsbury, a 26-year-old mother of two from Winona, Minnesota, who vanished on March 31, 2023. Host Ann Marie Green is joined by 48 Hours correspondent Peter Van Sant and producer Jordan Kinsey, who reported on the case. The trio revisit the pivotal community response, investigative hurdles, early suspicions, and the heartbreak endured by Maddi’s family, highlighting both the human and legal complexities in such a high-profile case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Discovery and Early Coverage of the Case

• Personal Connection: Producer Jordan Kinsey learned about Maddi's disappearance before national attention through a Minnesota court employee, who was friends with both Maddi and her ex-boyfriend, Adam Fravel.
  “I knew sort of before it hit the headlines... Their friends already texting trying to figure out what's going on.” — Jordan Kinsey [02:42]
• Building Sources: Kinsey leveraged local relationships, meeting college friends and connecting with the family, highlighting challenges in gaining access during a sensitive, emotional period.

2. The Town and Community Response

• Community Mobilization: Winona is described as the epitome of “Minnesota Nice,” with a tightly-knit community; over 2,000 locals participated in the search for Maddi.
  • “The entire community mobilized... I’ve never seen anything quite like this. And it was all through Megan and TikTok.” — Peter Van Sant [06:02]
• Role of Social Media: Maddi’s sister, Megan Kingsbury, galvanized public support through raw, daily TikTok updates, some reaching half a million views.
  • “She posted nearly every day for 68 days until her sister’s remains were found.” — Peter Van Sant [04:56]

3. The Emotional Toll and Family Involvement

• Impact on the Family: Megan’s advocacy was both therapeutic and agonizing, making her the public face of the search. The mayor himself joined the search, indicating the deep communal impact.
  • “She went on TikTok... desperate for any kind of tip that could help find Maddie. It was truly heartbreaking.” — Peter Van Sant [04:56]
  • “She comes up and gives him this bear hug. He said he'll never forget, and she wouldn't let go.” (On Maddi’s mother hugging the mayor) — Peter Van Sant [06:44]
• Family’s Pain: Maddi’s father struggled with guilt and helplessness, recalling that he warned Maddi her partner might harm her.
  • “I did tell her at some point he’s gonna kill you.” — David Kingsbury [16:31]

4. Investigation: Myths, Delays, and Dead Ends

• Critical First Hours: The team stresses that the first 12 hours are crucial in missing persons cases. However, police told friends it hadn’t been 24 hours, contributing to critical delays.
  • “I hear that all the time... Usually it is 48 hours because they think, ‘Well, maybe they had a fight.’” — Peter Van Sant [08:50]
• Friends' Suspicion: Friends grew suspicious over Adam Fravel’s dismissive responses.
  • “Why are you doing this?... She hasn't even been gone 24 hours.” — Adam Fravel in text exchange [09:31-09:37]

5. Scrutiny on Adam Fravel

• Gabby Petito Case Reference: Adam told investigators he was infatuated with the Gabby Petito case and allegedly threatened Maddi with a similar fate.
  • “He did tell Maddy if she didn’t listen up, that she would end up like Gabby Petito... but claimed it was only a joke.” — Jordan Kinsey [11:23]
• Legal Concerns: Adam’s defense claims his Miranda rights were not read before the second police interview, which could affect admissibility of statements.
  • “Anytime you begin a new interview, you have to read rights...” — Peter Van Sant [12:43]

6. Allegations of Abuse & Relationships

• Domestic Violence: Texts revealed a physically abusive altercation.
  • “I'm not really okay with or over the fact that you put your hand around my neck and pushed me down in front of the kids... Adam said you'll adjust.” — Texts read by Jordan Kinsey [15:39]
• Family & Friends’ Regret: Maddi’s family laments not pushing her harder to leave.
  • “She became a pro at minimizing thing... She wanted to believe that you.” — David Kingsbury [16:45]

7. Evidence and Circumstantial Case

• Timeline Inconsistencies: Surveillance footage contradicted Adam’s account; he had unexplained scratches, which he attributed to a dog.
• Cadaver Dog Alerts: Dogs alerted to a scent on the family UTV and shovel. Fravel family claims it stemmed from moving a raccoon.
  • “Cadaver dogs had alerted to ascent actually on that UTV and the shovel... the family has a reason. They claim... their father had used a shovel to move a dead raccoon.” — Jordan Kinsey [18:45]
• Body Discovered in Familiar Location: Maddi’s remains were found in an area familiar to Adam and his family, following a tip.

8. Motive, Relationships, and the Road Ahead

• Financial Motive: Maddi was the primary provider, working at Mayo Clinic, supporting the family after Adam’s job loss during Covid.
  • “She did everything... financially supported the family with her job at the Mayo Clinic.” — Peter Van Sant [20:55]
• A Love Triangle: Maddi was entering a new relationship with Spencer at the time of her death. Adam’s family suggested authorities should have looked at Spencer (who was cleared).
  • “He was just devastated... the day I interviewed Spencer, it was his birthday, and exactly one year earlier, he'd spent that birthday with Maddie.” — Peter Van Sant [22:39]

9. The Quest for Justice

• Elevated Charges: After discovery of Maddi’s body, charges against Adam Fravel were raised from second-degree to first-degree murder.
  • “After they found Maddie’s body, the charges were elevated... they have something new, right?” — Peter Van Sant [23:55]
• Social Impact: The episode highlights how sharing stories can help prevent future tragedies.
  • “There is going to be one family out there who's going to hear this story and pick up the phone and say, no, I insist you leave.” — Ann Marie Green [24:57]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Community:
  "The entire community mobilized, and you get this situation. As you mentioned earlier, Anne Marie, a couple of thousand people turned out to search. I’ve never seen anything quite like this. And it was all through Megan and TikTok." — Peter Van Sant [06:02]

• Family Intimacy:
  “She comes up and gives him this bear hug... she wouldn’t let go.” (On Maddi’s mother and the mayor) — Peter Van Sant [06:44]

• On Domestic Violence:
  “I did tell her at some point he’s gonna kill you.” — David Kingsbury [16:31]
  “She became a pro at minimizing thing... She wanted to believe that you.” — David Kingsbury [16:45]

• Emotional Impact:
  “I will always be the father of a murdered girl. And that pain... will echo in his life for the rest of his days.” — Peter Van Sant (about David Kingsbury) [23:55]

• Cautious Reporting:
  “We keep going back to Adam Frabel is innocent until proven guilty. And that's where we stand. We need to hear where all the evidence has been presented.” — Peter Van Sant [23:42]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:05-03:14]: Jordan Kinsey shares his introduction to the case and early reporting challenges.
• [04:12-06:02]: Winona’s community response and the role of Maddi’s sister Megan on TikTok.
• [07:56-08:31]: Importance of early action in missing persons cases and law enforcement delays.
• [09:31-10:57]: Friends’ suspicion and Adam Fravel’s dismissive texts.
• [11:23-12:14]: Adam’s infatuation with Gabby Petito’s murder and legal implications over Miranda rights.
• [15:39-16:14]: Texts between Maddi and Adam reveal allegations of past violence.
• [16:31-17:32]: Emotional interview with Maddi’s father, David Kingsbury.
• [18:05-19:48]: Evidence including timeline discrepancies, scratches, cadaver dog alerts.
• [20:55-21:49]: Discussion of motive and the family’s financial dynamics.
• [22:13-22:39]: Spencer’s relationship with Maddi and his heartbreak.
• [23:42-23:55]: Charge elevated from second- to first-degree murder post body discovery.
• [24:57-25:10]: Host Ann Marie Green’s note on the episode’s preventive value.

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Resources

• Finding Madeline Kingsbury Facebook page: 28,000+ followers; for case updates.

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Conclusion

This emotionally charged episode examines the immense ripple effect of Maddi Kingsbury’s disappearance and murder—on family, friends, and an entire community. Through in-depth reporting and first-hand accounts, the episode provides a thorough overview of the investigative challenges, the family’s fight for justice, and broader issues of domestic violence awareness. Listeners walk away with a poignant reminder of the stakes behind every true crime headline, and the lingering hope that stories like Maddi’s might save another.

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Transcript

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[Ann Marie Green]

Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your host, Ann Marie Green. And today we are talking about Maddie Kingsbury, 26 year old mother of two, who disappeared on March 31, 2023 after dropping her kids off at daycare. About a week after her disappearance, about 2,000 people turned out to search for Maddie covering a large stretch of southeastern Minnesota. And her sister Megan took to TikTok for help. So with me to discuss their reporting on Maddie Kingsbury's case are correspondent Peter Van Sant and producer Jordan Kinsey. Welcome, guys.

[Jordan Kinsey]

Hi, Anne Marie.

[Peter Van Sant]

Hey, Anne Marie. Good to be with you again.

[Ann Marie Green]

Once again, this is a fascinating case. If you haven't watched or listened to the episode the Disappearance of Maddy Kingsbury, then we go do that now. It's the episode just below this one in your podcast feed. To start though, Jordan, we've had a few cases in Minnesota this season. How did you learn about this case?

[Jordan Kinsey]

Yes, so how I learned about the case was that I was covering another trial in Minnesota and a court employee who I became really close with mentioned to me about this case and knowing that the person missing with someone she went to college with. And of course that blew my mind in that moment. And she did say that I also attended college with Maddy's ex boyfriend and father of her two kids and that we think he might have some type of involvement.

[Ann Marie Green]

Wow. So this is. You knew about the story before there was national coverage?

[Jordan Kinsey]

Yeah, yep. Day one, it just happened in that moment in the courtroom, just on break and their friends already texting trying to figure out what's going on. So yeah, I knew sort of before it hit the headlines. And that's when we reached out to the planning team to find out if we want to really invest in and try to cover this case.

[Ann Marie Green]

And Then how do you go about doing that, though? How do you go about building those connections? Because this is a really emotional, sensitive time for everyone involved.

[Jordan Kinsey]

It is. It is. And it can be a challenge, right, because people are going through the emotions at that moment. But I think for me, what really worked out was that I had already been in Minnesota Court employee. She connected me with some of the college friends who I just met with over dinner, and we stayed in contact, and then from there, they were able to connect me to additional friends and family.

[Peter Van Sant]

The other thing about Jordan, for the audience listening to this, he learned to speak Minnesotan, which is really important. He don't say, and Minnesota nice, and Jordan is Minnesota nice. And he can really connect with people. And so to have him there at the very beginning was just crucial for us in. In putting together this successful hour.

[Ann Marie Green]

So, Peter, to give people this backdrop, this town in particular seems like a prime example of Minnesota Nice. It seems like a sweet town.

[Peter Van Sant]

It is a beautiful, beautiful town on the banks of the Mississippi River. It is clear water that flows by, and the bluffs in the area where Winona is situated. The locals talk about their geology with pride, and the town is something out of a Hollywood movie set. The famous actress Winona Ryder is from Winona, and it has some sense of celebrity. But everyone seems to know everybody there. When someone goes missing, as Mattie did, the entire community mobilized.

[Ann Marie Green]

Finding Maddie went beyond the work of investigators. And it's all because of Maddie's sister, Megan. She started posting on TikTok and people tuned in.

[Peter Van Sant]

Absolutely. Megan, who's an absolute sweetheart and. And loves her sister as deeply as. As anyone can. She went on TikTok because she had watched dozens of videos from people who were in similar situations that she was in. You know, a missing loved one. And in one of her first posts, she was so panicked and anxious to tell people an update that she appears on camera, which you'll see in the show, fresh out of the shower, just wearing a towel. She's a remarkably genuine person, and she was desperate for any kind of tip that could help find Maddie. And it was truly heartbreaking for her. She posted nearly every day for 68 days until her sister's remains were found. And one of her posts had half a million views. And as a result, the community mobilized, and you get this situation. As you mentioned earlier, Anne Marie, a couple of thousand people turned out to search. I mean, I've never seen anything quite like this. And it was all through Megan and TikTok.

[Ann Marie Green]

So was this also therapeutic for Megan Absolutely.

[Peter Van Sant]

I've done this now for 20 years on. On 48 hours. I still cannot imagine what these families go through. The loss and the fear and knowing she's out there somewhere. And it was cold, and is she alive? Is she being held somewhere? Is she dead? And Megan became the face of that for us. And it's very powerful in this story.

[Ann Marie Green]

So people, I mean, who knows, all over the world were transfixed by this story. But even closer to home, I mean, you spoke to the mayor, and it almost seemed like he was personally offended that anything like this could happen in his town.

[Peter Van Sant]

He was. Scott Sherman is his name, an incredible human being. He's a mountain biker. And so as soon as he heard about this, he got on his mountain bike and went for mile after mile in those hills out there looking for her. And he had set up a command center there in downtown at the government complex. And what was really an incredible moment is when Mattie's mother walks into this room, he said, and says, who are you? And he says, I'm the mayor. She comes up and gives him this bear hug. He said he'll never forget, and she wouldn't let go. And he got emotional, and he was hugging her back, these two total strangers. And he says that he was communicating, that he will do anything he can to try to find her because she's a daughter of the community. In other words, they were holding each other without speaking, and it was very powerful. He also shared with us that at one of the vigils for Maddie, they showed a video of Maddie singing you Are My Sunshine. And he said that he sings that same song to his daughter every night before bed. And so every night, he was thinking about Matty as he would sing that song.

[Ann Marie Green]

So, Peter, you also spoke with former prosecutor and defense attorney Mary Fujiniti, who is a consultant for 48 hours, and she said with regards to the police investigating missing persons cases, that they know there is a ticking clock on these things. Can we talk a little bit more about how crucial it is to gain some traction in those first few hours of an investigation?

[Peter Van Sant]

It is so crucial when there's a missing person, particularly when they suspect foul play. In case after case that I have covered, police say that the first 12 hours are critical, sometimes life or death critical.

[Ann Marie Green]

Maddie's friends are frantic. They're trying to get a hold of her. They're calling. They're not getting a response. And eventually they go to the police. They want to file a missing person's report. Let me ask you this. Is it a Myth that you have to wait 48 hours. Like, that's what they were told by police when they tried to say she was missing.

[Peter Van Sant]

This happens all the time. These are really intelligent people. They knew of a history of alleged abuse in this relationship, and they go to cops and say, we have got a problem here. She's disappeared. None of us can get a hold of her. And they say, well, it hasn't been 24 hours yet. I hear that all the time in cases. Usually it is 48 hours because they think, well, maybe they had a fight. She was just emotional. She's gone off to be on her own for a time. She'll be back.

[Ann Marie Green]

When you're close with someone, you know, when their movements are out of the ordinary. So Maddie's friends, they text Adam and say to him, we're really concerned. But his response is not appreciation.

[Peter Van Sant]

In fact, this is what he said. Why are you doing this? Right? It's. She hasn't even been gone 24 hours.

[Jordan Kinsey]

So I was able to connect with Maddie's best friend, Katie Cuoco, and she told us that there was a text exchange between Adam and her husband, which she shared with police. And so I just want to read that text exchange. Adam said, I talked to the police. Who or what prompted you guys to go check at the house. I'm so confused. She hasn't been gone for a day yet, so I'm not freaking out, but everyone else is. Then Adam responded again. So Katie called the police. He then said she was leaving for Farmington in the morning. Katie's husband responded, yes, she did. Weird that no one could get a hold of her. Adam responded, well, wow, that's a little out of bounds of Katie. It hasn't even been 24 hours, and I saw her this morning. And Katie's husband responded with, not really, when no one has heard from her most of the day. Apparently no one was able to reach you either, too. So at least you've heard from her. You can't blame people for being worried, man. And then Adam said, nobody tried to reach me until 7pm, which was Megan, so idk what you mean by that. And then Adam said, I get being worried, but no one asked me anything. So it's like, wtf? Laugh out loud.

[Ann Marie Green]

Laugh out loud.

[Peter Van Sant]

Yep.

[Jordan Kinsey]

And I think that and that interaction right there is what sent Katie, you know, in a tailspin. That's what got her really concerned about Adam.

[Ann Marie Green]

You interviewed Haley Scott, one of Maddie's sorority sisters, who shared that Adam had a fascination with Gabby Petito's murder. For those who might not be familiar with that case, Gabby was killed by her fiance, Brian Laundrie, while the couple was on a cross country road trip.

[Jordan Kinsey]

With this case in particular, the judge released 60 plus search warrants. So all these search warrants were unsealed. And it's detailed. Adam told investigators he was infatuated with Gabby Petito and that he did tell Maddy if she didn't listen up, that she would end up like Gabby Petito. And this statement was also detailed in the criminal complaint. So he admitted to making that statement, but claimed it was only a joke. And, you know, he also told investigators that there had never been any physical violence in the relationship. And also during the search, Adam released a statement through his attorney which read, in part, I have cooperated with law enforcement at every turn. I did not have anything to do with Maddie's disappearance.

[Ann Marie Green]

So this is kind of interesting. Adam's defense team says that he wasn't read his Miranda rights for one of the police interviews, specifically his second interview. For those who might not know what those are, you should know that for your own sake. Can you explain the Miranda rights and what's the defense suggesting? Because I presume that this means that he was read his Miranda rights at some point, at least initially, but I guess you got to do it each time.

[Peter Van Sant]

Well, anytime you begin a new interview, you have to read rights. And we've all seen this on police TV shows, right? And I know a lot of the audience listening right now can lip sync this along with me. But the Miranda rights require police to inform a suspect that they have the right to remain silent, that what they say can be used against them in court, that they have a right to a lawyer, and that the suspect must indicate that they understand what's been said to them by the police officer. And the defense attorney said what may end up being a crucial moment for jurors, his fascination with the Gabby Petito case. He had not been read his rights. So they want that thrown out of any trial. That's, that's coming up. We can't say this enough. He's an innocent man. Adam Fravel, until proven guilty. And his defense team and his brother and sister have told us we have answers for every issue that you've heard that we've talked about thus far and we'll talk about. And they say they are 150% confident in his innocence.

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[Ann Marie Green]

As we heard in the hour, there were allegations made by Haley Scott that there were physical altercations between Maddie and Adam, that this relationship was frayed, it was falling apart. Adam had denied this. Maddie's family said that she never filed any police reports alleging violence. And you really get from the family that they're conflicted about whether or not they should have pushed her to do something like that. According to a search warrant and criminal complaint, police discovered a screenshot on Maddie's phone of a text exchange between Maddie and Adam dated September 21, 2021, and it details an alleged choking incident that occurred. Jordan, can you read those text messages to us?

[Jordan Kinsey]

Absolutely. So Maddie says to Adam, you know, I'm not really okay with or over the fact that you put your hand around my neck and pushed me down in front of the kids earlier. So don't not okay with it at all, but especially with them there. Adam said you'll adjust. Maddie responds, the f, I will. Then Maddie says, again, you do that again without asking me, you can go somewhere else. Adam responded, you got it, mother. And then Maddie said, don't patronize me. That crossed a line.

[Ann Marie Green]

You see that she seems to stand up for herself in these text messages, but her friends, her family, they encourage her to leave. Adam, she does not leave. I want to play a clip from the Hour, Peter, with you speaking to Mattie's father.

[David Kingsbury]

David, I did tell her at some point he's gonna kill you.

[Peter Van Sant]

You said that to Matt? Yeah. You felt there was enough danger that you had to say to your own daughter, I think he may kill You. And how did she respond to that statement?

[David Kingsbury]

Or did she honestly. I mean, she became a pro at minimizing thing. And it came back to, well, he was. He was joking. He told me he was joking. And she wanted to believe that you.

[Ann Marie Green]

Spoke to her dad. This is a woman who was well loved by her family.

[Peter Van Sant]

This.

[Ann Marie Green]

They would have done anything to help her out, to help her get out of that relationship if she wanted to. Can you talk to me a little bit about how the dad was feeling? I mean, what's your take on that?

[Peter Van Sant]

Well, David Kingsbury is a brilliant man and a loving father, and he did the best he could over and over again, including to have her move in with him for a brief time. No one imagines that this will actually end up in murder. They just can't believe that's. That's. That's not on their radar.

[Ann Marie Green]

Yeah.

[Peter Van Sant]

Whatsoever. And she kept going back to him, which. Which is not uncommon. And that's. That's what really drove David crazy, is he said that she told him, too. The fact that she had these kids, it was just impossible to leave Adam. They were this partnership, and it. It just ended up in tragedy. They tried, Anne Marie. They tried.

[Ann Marie Green]

Yeah. As of now, Adam Fravel's trial is expected to start in the fall of 2024. Can we talk about the evidence that we might see at trial, Jordan?

[Jordan Kinsey]

So based off of what we have in the search warrants, Adam gave his timeline of what happened that day that Matti disappeared. Now, when investigators reviewed surveillance footage, they noticed that there was a discrepancy and what Adam mentioned with the times where he was at, and they weren't matching. You know, another observation, when police interviewed Adam in his first interview, they noticed scratches along his face and neck. And so we spoke to Adam's sister. She said Adam told her that he got those scratches from a friend's dog.

[Ann Marie Green]

Wait, I'm hearing a little noise in the background. What's going on down there?

[Jordan Kinsey]

Yeah, there's some wind happening. There's a storm that's hitting Florida at the moment. So that's why you hear some rumbling going on. Now, another interesting point is that Adam's family has a utv, a utility terrain vehicle. And so the cadaver dogs had alerted to ascent actually on that UTV and the shovel. And also mentioned in the search warrant that cadaver dogs are trained to pick up on any human remains. Now, Adam's family mentioned that they have a reason for that. They claim that the weekend prior, their father had used a shovel to move a Dead raccoon.

[Ann Marie Green]

I heard that in the hour. And I thought there's a difference between the smell of a body, which is what these dogs are trained to pick up on, and a wild animal. But that's their response. Jordan, what other evidence is there?

[Jordan Kinsey]

The area where Maddie's body was found was previously maintained by Adam's family. They admit that they did know the area very well.

[Peter Van Sant]

This came from a tip, by the way, that someone had seen Adam Fravel on this all terrain vehicle driving out in that area. And then they take the sniffer dogs out there and they alert on that vehicle. And. And prosecutors. This is all circumstantial, are obviously going to be suggesting the reason why they alerted on that vehicle was that Maddie's body was back there and that this was an area that Adam Fravel was familiar with and where her body was found. Again, we can't say it's strong enough. The family has says they are going to be presenting answers to all this. Remember, the defense attorneys did not speak with us in this.

[Ann Marie Green]

Now, I know the prosecution doesn't have to present a motive, but it certainly helps when you're arguing a case. And there's a motive that was floated, which was that Adam was financially dependent on her and if she was to leave, it would pull the rug out from under him financially.

[Peter Van Sant]

Well, she did everything. And what her friends and family say is that she financially supported the family with her job at the Mayo Clinic. Friends claim that Adam did not help with the raising of the children and that she was very much on her own. Also, this was not much of a loving relationship. It was on again, off again. And as we know, she sought another relationship and she had made the decision that she was going to leave him.

[Ann Marie Green]

In the very beginning of the hour. When you speak to his sister, she says something to the effect of he did the right thing. He dropped out of school and got a job. When she became pregnant, I got the sense that she felt like there was an unfairness to this. He made these sacrifices for her and now this relationship could be ending and she could be leaving.

[Peter Van Sant]

His family will tell you that was all to support the family, all to support her so she could get her degree and that he was being generous with this. He did have a job for a time, but when Covid hit, he lost his job. And so they depended completely on her salary. But on her side of the ledger, people say that he just was not much of a provider and not much of a responsible adult.

[Ann Marie Green]

Yeah, and sort of another really heartbreaking part of this story of the hour is Spencer, Maddie's new love. At the time of the murder, they were in a relationship and there's talk about whether she was going to be leaving Adam to start a life with Spencer. He certainly says that he was starting to think about a life with her. And now all of that potential, all of that hope is lost.

[Peter Van Sant]

This is an incredibly moving part of this story, a tragic part. Spencer is a military veteran. He was very soft spoken man, big hearted. He was just devastated by the loss of the woman that he said he wanted to spend the next 60 years of his life with. And keep in mind, after she disappeared, when you have what appears to be a love triangle, there can be a motive for murder. Adams family says even today you have to look more closely at Spencer. Now, authorities have said he is no longer a suspect, but he was generous enough to talk to us. He talked about the sadness. And by the way, the day I interviewed Spencer, it was his birthday. And exactly one year earlier, he'd spent that birthday with Maddie. And he has a card that he reads over and over again. Spencer got very emotional with me when he said the last thing Matty said to him was love you. And he just wishes he had said, I love you back. And he didn't. And every day he thinks about that. He's just a devastated man hoping for justice. In this case.

[Ann Marie Green]

Mattie's father said in the court of common sense, all roads lead to Adam. What was it like talking to this clearly heartbroken family boy?

[Peter Van Sant]

Mattie's father said, I will always be the father of a murdered girl. And that pain, you could just, you could see it, you could hear it, and it will echo in his life for the rest of his days. We keep going back to Adam Frabel is innocent until proven guilty. And that's where we stand. We need to hear where all the evidence has been presented. It is intriguing, though. After they found Maddie's body, the charges were elevated against Adam Fravo from second degree murder to first degree murder. Why is that? We don't know yet. But to have the charge elevated to first degree murder, they have something new, right? Mattie's family, they just so desperately want not only justice for their daughter, but to prevent this kind of domestic violence from. From taking someone else. Right now is a Facebook page called Finding Madeline Kingsbury. It has 28,000 followers and it's a good source to see what's happening in this case.

[Ann Marie Green]

You know, you bring up something, I thought there is going to be one family out there who's going to hear this story and pick up the phone and say no, I insist you leave.

[Peter Van Sant]

Absolutely.

[Ann Marie Green]

They will save lives for sure. I want to thank you Peter and Jordan once again for joining me on the podcast.

[Peter Van Sant]

Thanks Anne Marie.

[Jordan Kinsey]

Thank you. Thanks Anne Marie. I appreciate it.

[Ann Marie Green]

So listen, Join us next Tuesday for another Postmortem and watch 48 Hours on Saturdays 10, 9 Central on CBS and streaming on Paramount Plus. And if you are liking the show, please rate and review 48 hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 hours wherever you get your podcast. You can also listen ad free on the Amazon Music and Wondery app or with a 48 hours plus subscription on Apple Podcasts.

[Jordan Kinsey]

Is this a hit it situation?

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[Peter Van Sant]

We have to stop this invasion.

[Ann Marie Green]

Get into this.

[Jordan Kinsey]

This crew is a team. We are going to find our way out of this together. Hang on. It's one in a thousand.

[Peter Van Sant]

We get it done right or don't.

[Jordan Kinsey]

Blow ourselves up along the way. I like those odds.

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We'll just turn it off before we blow up.

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[Peter Van Sant]

We have to stop this invasion.

[Ann Marie Green]

Yes to this.

[Jordan Kinsey]

This crew is a team. We are going to find our way out of this.

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