Post Mortem | The Han Family Murders

Summary

48 Hours: Post Mortem | The Han Family Murders

Podcast: 48 Hours
Host: Ann Marie Green
Guest: Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)
Original Air Date: November 11, 2025

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Overview

This “Post Mortem” episode of 48 Hours, hosted by Ann Marie Green with correspondent Natalie Morales, dives deeply into the 2016 Han family triple homicide case. The episode explores the shocking murders of Dr. Henry Han, his wife Jenny, and their five-year-old daughter Emily, found wrapped in plastic in their garage. The conversation unpacks Pierre Hobbs’ manipulative character, the forensic and digital evidence against him, and emotional ramifications for loved ones, culminating in Hobbs’ conviction.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Victims and Suspect Background

• Victims: Dr. Henry Han (renowned healer), wife Jenny, daughter Emily.

• Suspect: Pierre Hobbs, former business associate, described as a “career con man” who ingratiated himself with successful people despite dubious credentials.

  “Prosecutors… describe him as a lying liar who lies about lying, and they describe him as a career con man.”
  —Natalie Morales, (02:08)

Pierre’s History

• Hired by Dr. Han for a CBD startup, later fired for misusing Han’s credit card for escort services and other questionable charges (02:29).

• Reestablished contact with Han just weeks before the murders.

• Had previously convinced investors in Arizona to fund a fake “perpetual energy machine.” (03:45)

  “Pierre did demonstrations… they found an external energy source… a car battery… and… wires running underground into this prototype.”
  —Natalie Morales (04:12)

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2. Motive for Murder

• Purely financial: Pierre was nearly destitute—with about $500 left—and desperately sought companionship, even spending $10,000 on an escort (05:17).

• According to friend TJ Derita, Pierre confessed his plan was to “drain the money out of Dr. Henry Hahn’s account” and assumed if he transferred money in small amounts, no one would notice (05:17, 05:51).

  “Once he did start to try to make those transfers, I believe the first amount was $72,000… that triggered a bank fraud alert.”
  —Natalie Morales (05:51)

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3. Crime Scene and Initial Investigation

• Crime scene was messy despite Pierre’s attempt to clean up—bleach stains, bloody sheets, etc. (07:26).

• Pierre planned to dispose of the bodies to make it look like a disappearance but failed due to logistical challenges.

  “He tries to clean up, but he’s kind of unsuccessful… police zero in on Pierre.”
  —Ann Marie Green (07:26)

• Dr. Han’s friends (Mark & Marla Palumbo, Don Goldberg) quickly noticed something was wrong, leading police to discover the crime (07:49).

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4. The Digital & Physical Evidence Trail

Key Evidence:

• Keylogger Device: Pierre installed a keylogger on Han’s computer—but left it in place, inadvertently exposing himself (08:51).

• Surveillance Footage: Captured Pierre buying plastic wrap and duct tape at a Home Depot, as well as at an Arizona gun store purchasing firearms and ammunition matching the murder weapon (09:42).

• Home Depot’s Role: Their surveillance and receipt-tracking systems were pivotal.

  “Home Depot keeps track of the receipts… able to track the surveillance footage as well.”
  —Natalie Morales (09:59)

• Go Bags: Pierre’s father (not implicated) was seen handing him duffel bags in a Walmart parking lot shortly after the murders (10:30).

• Victims’ Phones: Wrapped in aluminum foil in an attempt to thwart tracking, yet one still pinged—helping police trace Pierre (11:15-11:33).

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5. Arrest & Further Evidence

[13:11] Pierre was arrested at a California gas station less than 48 hours after the murders.
Evidence in Pierre’s Car:

• Han’s wallet, credit cards, social security card

• Expended shell casing tied to the crime

• Murder victims’ cell phones wrapped in foil

  “Pierre made Internet searches: Is a car searched when entering Tijuana? How do crime scene investigations work?... He also consulted an online psychic—‘Will I get caught for what I did?’”
  —Natalie Morales (13:30–14:30)

Notable Moment:

• Pierre’s post-murder Google searches and inquiry to a psychic featured as a moment of dark irony:

  “Count Marco replied: What did you do, Pierre? Well, you know… investigators were the ones who were able to answer that: Yes, Pierre, you will get caught.”
  —Natalie Morales (14:25)

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6. The Confession and Pierre’s Friend, TJ Derita

• TJ Derita: Pierre confessed to the murders to TJ, but TJ waited two days to inform police, initially believing Pierre was spinning another story (15:20–15:56).

  “[TJ] felt sorry for Pierre because he saw Pierre as being very socially awkward…”
  —Natalie Morales (17:10)

• Defense tried to discredit TJ due to his career in the adult entertainment industry, but the judge dismissed the relevance and TJ’s testimony matched corroborating evidence (16:56–17:10).

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7. Interrogation & Pierre’s Defense in Court

• Pierre’s demeanor: Convinced of his own smarts, he waived Miranda rights and created elaborate alternative narratives, implicating shadowy “figures” and the Department of Energy (18:19–19:51).

  “‘I have no clue. Oh my gosh, everything was perfectly fine when I left.’”
  —Pierre Hobbs, suspect (18:19, 18:34)

• Courtroom Tactics: DA waived the death penalty for a bench trial; Pierre testified himself, spinning tales of being framed by a government conspiracy (20:28).

  “Pierre’s explanation on the stand for the murders was that he was being framed by the Department of Energy…”
  —Natalie Morales (20:28)

• His defense attorney hinted at possible mental illness, but Pierre denied any diagnosis (21:42).

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8. Judgment, Appeals, and Lasting Impact

• Conviction: Guilty on all three counts of first-degree murder.

• Sentence: Three consecutive life terms without parole (21:54).

• Appeals: All appeals up to the U.S. Supreme Court were denied (21:54–22:19).

  “So much evidence as we see in this case against him, and it’s hard to believe that any further motions… anything could come of that.”
  —Natalie Morales (22:19)

• Victim Legacy: Dr. Han and his family were deeply beloved in their community. Interviewed survivors and friends emphasized Dr. Han’s healing legacy (22:42–23:09).

  “A good man’s name is his legacy. Nearly a decade later, they’re all remembered by those who knew and loved them.”
  —Don Goldberg (via Natalie Morales, 23:09)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Prosecutors… describe him as a lying liar who lies about lying, and they describe him as a career con man.” —Natalie Morales (02:08)
• “Pierre did demonstrations… they found an external energy source… a car battery… wires running underground…” —Natalie Morales (04:12)
• “Once he did start to try to make those transfers, I believe the first amount was $72,000… that triggered a bank fraud alert.” —Natalie Morales (05:51)
• “Pierre made Internet searches: Is a car searched when entering Tijuana? How do crime scene investigations work? … He also consulted an online psychic—‘Will I get caught for what I did?’” —Natalie Morales (13:30–14:30)
• “A good man’s name is his legacy. Nearly a decade later, they’re all remembered by those who knew and loved them.” —Don Goldberg (via Natalie Morales) (23:09)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Pierre’s Fraudulent Past: 02:29–04:12
• Discussion of the Murders’ Motive and Details: 05:17–07:12
• Evidence Collection and Digital Trail: 08:51–10:27
• Home Depot Surveillance and Receipts: 09:42–10:27
• Discovery and Arrest: 13:11–14:30
• TJ Derita’s Testimony: 15:20–17:10
• Pierre’s Interrogation Clip: 18:19–18:43
• Bench Trial and Verdict: 20:28–21:54
• Appeals and Victim Remembrance: 21:54–23:09

---

Episode Tone

The episode is investigative and empathetic, blending journalistic rigor with respect for the victims and their families. The hosts maintain a measured, thoughtful cadence, punctuated by moments of genuine emotion and disbelief at the callousness of the crime.

---

Summary

This Post Mortem episode offers a thorough, layered discussion of one of the most unsettling murders investigated by 48 Hours. The hosts dissect the psychology of Pierre Hobbs, the overwhelming forensic evidence, and the ripple effects of tragedy on the community. Central themes include the dangers of misplaced trust, the sophistication of contemporary investigations, and a tribute to the lives of those lost far too soon.

Transcript

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[Pierre Hobbs (Suspect)]

Foreign.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your host Ann Marie Green. And today we're discussing the Hahn family murders. In March of 2016, the bodies of Dr. Henry Hahn, his wife Jenny and their five year old daughter Emily were discovered wrapped in plastic in the family's garage. Now there is a lot to get into here, so joining me now is 48 Hours correspondent Natalie Morales, who worked on this hour. Natalie, thanks for joining us again.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

Thanks for having me. Once again, Emerie.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

And of course, a reminder to everyone that if you haven't listened to the 48 Hours episode that we're about to discuss, head on over to your podcast feed. You'll find the full audio version there. Take a listen and then come on back. So shortly after police discover the bodies of Dr. Han and his wife Jenny and their daughter, a trail of evidence led them to Pierre Hobbs. He's a former business associate of Dr. Hans. And in the hour, the prosecutor called Pierre a lying liar who lies about lying. It certainly seems like he was able to spin stories quite well. Well enough to, I mean, endear himself to some pretty smart people. What do we actually know about Pierre, though, and his connection to Dr. Hahn?

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

Well, Dr. Henry Hahn had hired Pierre to develop a CBD product and it was part of his new business venture that he had started with a couple of other partners. But he then fired Pierre once he discovered that Pierre had been using his credit card to charge for escort services, among other things. On his business account. However, just weeks before the murders, it seemed like Pierre was able to get back into Henry's good graces. Now, prosecutors, as you mentioned, describe him as a lying liar who lies about lying, and they describe him as a career con man. I should point out he was never convicted of previous cons. But Pierre did tell authorities, though, that he didn't have a college degree, but he lived in a college town in Arizona. He would go to the library a lot. He was self taught. He was fascinated with the idea of energy and technology. According to prosecutors, this wasn't his first con. Allegedly, Pierre had duped a group of investors in Arizona into giving him money to build this so called perpetual energy machine. And his story then just grew from there.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

You know, Pierre's like one of those sort of characters that we see that you think, gosh, you're able to endear yourself to many, many people who are smart and who are good with money. If only you had funneled that in a different direction, you know. But let's talk about this perpetual energy machine. Pierre's own attorney said in the Hour that you don't have to be a scientist to know that a perpetual energy machine does not exist.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

Yeah, it implies it just, you know, creates its. Its own energy source. So according to the prosecution, Pierre apparently did demonstrations for this group of investors back in Arizona. However, in those demos, twice, they found an external energy source that was sort of plugged into this so called perpetual energy machine. The first time, apparently there was, you know, like a car battery that it was connected to. And the second time, investors actually traced back and they found what were like wires running underground into this prototype. So, you know, we did try to reach out to these investors in Arizona. Unfortunately, we didn't hear back from any of them.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

I think what was particularly challenging about this hour is, of course, you know, there's a young child who's killed. Like he kills the entire family. And I was hoping, as the hour was unfolding, to hear and they found Emily in the bedroom sleeping or something like that. I just, I thought, why a child?

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

I think that's the hardest thing to try to understand. Wiping out the whole family the way he did and little Emily, who was just three days shy of her sixth birthday. You know, hard to believe that money was purely the motive here. But prosecutors believed that Pierre had targeted Henry Hahn because he was flat broke. And I think he had $500 left in his bank account. According to the prosecutor, also, Pierre was apparently desperate for a real relationship. So much to the point as we told you he was hiring escorts to have companionship. And apparently he fell in love, according to the prosecutor, with one of the escorts and outright gave that escort a $10,000 payment. So there went more money. Now, Pierre had told people, including his friend TJ Derita, that he wanted to move to Russia because he felt he clicked more with the women there. And Pierre's friend TJ Also told investigators that Pierre confessed to him, as you saw in the Hour, about the murders. But he said in that confession that his. His motive was purely financial, that he planned to drain the money out of Dr. Henry Hahn's account. He said that, you know, as long as he felt like he kept making these transfers, perhaps no one would be the wiser for it. You know, once he did start to try to make those transfers, I believe the first amount was $72,000 that he tried to take out of Dr. Henry Hahn's account. Well, that triggered a bank fraud alert, as you would hope. The banks are on to this kind of thing, and that transaction never went through.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

I mean, I don't know why he thought that would work. I literally get a bank fraud alert when I try to buy, like, a train ticket. I mean, the. The banks are really sensitive to this stuff these days. Right? So.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

Right. Especially this went against Dr. Han's usual. I mean, if usually, if there were big transfers like that, maybe it would pass. But in this case, Dr. Henry Hahn wasn't that kind of man to just transfer that amount of money like that.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

So here's the thing about the scene. This is a guy who, you know, thinks he's planned everything out, but then he's left with a very. I mean, messy crime scene that he tries to clean up, but he's kind of unsuccessful. Investigators find bleach stains and bloody sheets in the laundry room. And very quickly, police zero in on Pierre as a person of interest.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

Yeah, I mean, that's right. The prosecutors believe that, you know, Pierre's plan was to get rid of the bodies, to clean up the scene, make it look like the Hans were actually missing instead of dead. But he doesn't account for the weight of the bodies and being able to fit the bodies, all three of them, in his car. Keep in mind, there was this business meeting that very next morning, and Mark and Marla Palumbo, friends and business partners of Dr. Hans, they start to call, and they're worried, and that's when they send Don Goldberg, you know, who's such a good friend of Dr. Hans, to go check out the house. And that's when investigators are then called to the house and they discover the bodies and this horrific crime scene.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

The other kind of component to this investigation is that there was a huge amount of digital evidence that led investigators to Pierre. So this is a guy who's supposed to be pretty savvy, right, when it comes to computer, but he leaves, like, this tremendous digital footprint.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

Right. Let's start first with the fact that he had placed this keylogger device on Dr. Hahn's computer, but also he left it plugged into his computer so that all the keystrokes were basically tracing right back to Pierre's computer. Security video was also found placing him at an Arizona gun store four days prior to the murders, purchasing ammunition and two firearms, including the alleged murder weapon. Now, investigators also traced the plastic wrap that was found used to wrap the bodies to a Home Depot in Oceanside. That's Southern California, right near where Pierre lived. So they go to that Home Depot, and as you know, with Home Depots, they have great surveillance footage. So they had footage of him leaving the Home Depot with that plastic wrap and also duct tape.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

I was also impressed with how rapidly Home Depot was able to pinpoint where these purchases were made. I feel like I've done several post mortems where we've talked about Home Depot being, like, clutch when it came to investigating.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

It's remarkable. I mean, I just reported on another story in the Fandridge case, where the video surveillance footage from Home Depot was crystal clear. It could spot the suspect at the time leaving with a big package of goods and even having the receipts. You know, Home Depot keeps track of the receipts, so once they identify the time of purchase, they can go back into their receipts and their computer system, and that's where they then are able to track the surveillance footage as well.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

Yeah, it's unbelievable.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

And then Pierre was also captured on surveillance camera meeting his father in a Walmart parking lot. That's where the father gave him two big duffel bags, which investigators say were go bags. Go bags, meaning, you know, a bag that had enough supplies and clothing that he could live on for months, we should say. Pierre's father was not charged with any crime in that there was no indication that Pierre's father was involved in any way, according to the prosecutor. But Pierre also took with him the victim's phones. He had wrapped the phones in aluminum foil trying to evade any sort of tracking.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

I had no idea wrapping phones in aluminum foil was a thing, but it doesn't seem like it would work, not always.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

And in this case, it was Maybe not wrapped well enough, but investigators were able to track one of the phones it was pinging all the way to Oceanside, California.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

Yeah, it actually became really sort of pivotal when it comes to the investigation. So after the break, we're gonna talk about that. We're also gonna talk about his defense in court.

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[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

Welcome back. So investigators closed in on Pierre at a gas station in the Oceanside, California area. He was arrested nearly 48 hours after the murder. Not a lot of time goes by, and ultimately, the evidence points to. To Pierre and no one else as the Hans killer.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

Yeah, I mean, and the evidence, there was plenty of it right in Pierre's car. I mean, they found Henry's wallet, his credit card, Social Security number, an expended shell casing, which would trace back to the bullets that were found in the victims, the victim's phones, and as I pointed out earlier, all wrapped in an aluminum foil as if trying to evade being tracked. They also uncovered some pretty damning Internet searches, according to investigators, Pierre made in the hours following the murder. You know, he asked, is a car searched when entering Tijuana? How do crime scene investigations work? How long does it take for fingerprints to process? And the. The interesting one, he consulted an online psychic named Count Marco. And he asked, will I get caught for what I did? And Count Marco replied, what did you do, Pierre? Well, you know, and think investigators were the ones who were able to answer that, yes, Pierre, you will get caught.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

And he did indeed. Absolutely. It's a very smart response. And I wonder how much those psychics hear. And you know what I mean? And you wouldn't want.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

Imagine the confessions they get.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

Can you imagine? And also, you would, I'm sure they don't want to be wrapped up or implicated in anything. So just, you know, keep it vague. Keep it vague. So as we discussed a little bit earlier, Pierre had actually confessed to murdering the Han family to a friend of his, TJ Derita. Just hours afterwards, while Pierre was in custody, detectives get a phone call from tj, who then tells them about Pierre's confession. But he waited two days. Natalie and I kept on wondering, like, what. What are you doing? What took you so long?

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

I know. And we asked TJ Dorita that point blank, you know, he's. He said that Pierre always told these bizarre, outlandish stories, so he wasn't quite sure what to believe at that point. He was making phone calls to all of Dr. Henry Hahn's office, to his business associates, trying to track him down to see what was true, what wasn't true. Now, once TJ learned that the murders had happened, he said he then started to worry that the police would think that he was somehow involved. So TJ said he was so scared, he called his brother, who happens to be a judge. His brother told him, you need to go to the police right away, tell your story, you know, make sure they know what's. What's real and what happened here. The defense at trial, of course, they. They saw this as. As an opportunity to poke holes in. In what TJ told in his testimony. They questioned, if you were so scared, why didn't you go to police right away? Because police would. Would have protected him. And they also questioned TJ's credibility because TJ had worked in the porn industry and in the marketing area of the porn industry. As TJ said, he worked with some rough, around the edges kinds of friends. The judge felt, though, that that line of questioning was irrelevant and the defense had to concede. In this case, much of what T.J. dorita testified to was corroborated by the evidence. And even in those text exchanges with Pierre in the aftermath, it seems like.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

Before learning about the murders, TJ had sort of some sympathy for Pierre. Do we know. I mean, how this friendship started, what the nature of their friendship was, why he kind of felt sorry for him.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

TJ says he felt sorry for Pierre because he saw Pierre as being very socially awkward. You know, Pierre would share with him the stories of not being able to get a date, not being able to have a real relationship. And TJ said he was always that guy in high school that stuck up for the kids who were bullied. He was just that kind of guy. So he tried to make him feel like he belonged. Pierre would send him pictures of himself working out at 4am looking all buff, just to try to make himself feel like he and TJ could hang and be friends. TJ said he just kind of went along with it because he felt bad for him.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

Wow. So the thing about Pierre, though, is he strikes me once again as one of those characters who thinks he's a little bit smarter than he actually is. Right. So he waives his Miranda rights, and he talks to detectives without his attorney present. I want to play a clip of the detectives questioning Pierre about the Hahn murders.

[Pierre Hobbs (Suspect)]

Obviously, you're suspecting it's me. I'm guessing that's why you're asking it like that. You're the last person who was there with him. What happened? I have no clue.

[Karamo (Podcast Host)]

That.

[Pierre Hobbs (Suspect)]

Oh, my gosh, everything was perfectly fine when I left. Everything was perfectly fine when I left.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

So just a reminder for those who watched the episode, Pierre admits he was at the house. He'd stayed with them the night before, but there he is talking to investigators, and he's trying to make up this. You know, he's trying to tell them that he's clueless in all of this. And he spins this fantastical story about how he was being targeted by these shadowy figures that were wanting his. His perpetual energy machine. And. And he said that he had engaged in three different shootouts and. And that he felt like his life was in danger, as well as the life of his father and his sister. So he. He said he was afraid for them. And I asked his defense attorney in the Hour, well, then if he tells this whole fantastical story, you would assume there would be a trail of bodies. And, you know, she had to acknowledge, of course, there was. There was no such record of any of that.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

Yeah, I mean, three different shootouts, that would be pretty easy for police to verify.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

Yeah. This sounded like a spy thriller more than it was Actual. In actual life.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

Yeah. So ultimately, though, Pierre is charged with three counts of first degree murder. The DA's office agrees to waive the death penalty in exchange for a more expedient bench trial. Which means it's only a judge, no jury, a judge is going to render the verdict. Pierre decides to take the stand. What did he hope to convey to the judge? You know, at least when you're taking the stand in front of a jury, there's a possibility that one person may be influenced. But a judge, I mean, that's, that's quite a challenge.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

His defense attorney said that he wanted to be vindicated. He really seemed to believe what he was saying. Now, I think he also believed that he could convince the courts. I mean, here's a guy he's, as you said, very persuasive. He's managed to convince, allegedly, you know, these investors who went along with his so called energy machine plan back when he was living in Arizona. So maybe he thought, well, you know, I can convince the court as well. He shared a lot of detail in his testimony, though. A lot of it didn't make sense. According to the prosecutor, Ben Ledenig, Pierre's explanation on the stand for the murders was that he was being framed by the Department of Energy, that any incriminating physical or digital evidence he said had been planted by the Department of Energy. Again, there's no evidence pointing to the Department of Energy in any of this. His defense attorney asked Pierre on the stand if he had ever been diagnosed with a mental illness. Pierre denied that. So, you know, I think she was trying to allude to the fact that Pierre perhaps might have had an undiagnosed mental illness.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

Right. Giving him some sort of excuse, I guess, in a way, for, for the behavior.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

Yeah. And then Pierre was found guilty of murdering the Hahn family.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

On April 15, 2022, he's sentenced to three life terms without the possibility of parole. So he appeals the conviction through the California courts. And while his appeal was pending, he also petitioned the U.S. supreme Court, Supreme Court to release him in March of 2025. The court denied his final petition. So is there any further legal action that Pierre can take at this point?

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

Well, I believe that he could file other petitions or motions, perhaps based on, you know, if there's new information or evidence. But all of that, again, is, is hypothetical, you know, whatever legal recourse he thinks he might have, though, you know, there's just so much evidence as we see in this case against him, and it's hard to believe that any further motions that anything could come of that.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, to hear Dr. Hahn's friends talk about him, I mean, he wasn't just a nice guy and a good friend. He really did change people's lives. And here's a guy who, a little bit later on in life finds the love of his life and. And has this beautiful child. I mean, these are people doing everything right. It's just so much potential cut short.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

And I think that's truly who Dr. Henry Hahn and his whole family was. I mean, Dr. Henry Hahn really believed that he could help people and was doing that. We talked to a few of the cancer survivors that he worked with who talked so lovingly about his healing powers. They believed, you know, that he really was the real deal. And in the darkest moments of their lives, he was the one who was there for them. And, yeah, it's just hard to even imagine the loss of little Emily. You know, as I said, just a couple of days before her birthday. I mean, I think that's especially heartbreaking. And I think I'll end this by, you know, saying again what Don Goldberg said. A good man's name is his legacy. Nearly a decade later, they're all remembered by those who knew and loved them. Them.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

Yeah, that. That was very, very obvious. It. It was a really good story, Natalie.

[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

Thank you, Anne Marie.

[Ann Marie Green (Host)]

And to our listeners, if you like this podcast, please rate and review on Apple podcasts or on Spotify.

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[Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)]

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[Paramount Plus Advertiser]

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