Post Mortem | The Mother I Wish I Knew

Summary

Podcast Summary: 48 Hours — Post Mortem | The Mother I Wish I Knew

Host: Anne-Marie Green
Guest: Natalie Morales (48 Hours Correspondent)
Date: January 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of "48 Hours: Post Mortem" delves into the decades-old murder mystery of Deborah (Debbie) Atrops, a young Oregon mother found strangled in the trunk of her car in 1988. After remaining unsolved for 37 years, the case was reopened, eventually leading to the conviction of Debbie’s estranged husband, Bob Atrops. Host Anne-Marie Green is joined by correspondent Natalie Morales to examine the evolving investigation, shifting suspects, family trauma, and the intricate legal battle that resulted in a long-awaited — and still controversial — verdict.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Initial Disappearance and Investigation

• Timeline of Disappearance:
  • Debbie was last seen alive on November 29, 1988, after a hairdressing appointment.
  • Bob Atrops (estranged husband) reported her missing soon after, claiming she was about three hours late in picking up their baby daughter, Rihanna.
  • Anne-Marie questioned the timing, finding it “too soon” to call police (02:08).
• Questionable 911 Call:
  • The urgency and content of Bob’s call struck both hosts and investigators as odd.
  • Bob claimed to have called Debbie’s babysitter, boss, and parents, but there was no phone record to verify these claims, raising suspicions about his alibi and whereabouts. (04:17)
  • Possible explanations: Bob might have used public payphones or calling cards, but inconsistencies remained.

Crime Scene and Early Suspects

• Discovery of Debbie’s Body:
  • Debbie’s body was found in her car trunk two days after her disappearance, showing signs of manual strangulation but no sexual assault. (06:29)
• Focus on Bob Atrops:
  • He was immediately a person of interest due to being the estranged spouse.
  • Investigators collected mud and soil samples from Bob’s driveway, matching them to mud found on Debbie’s body and car. However, tire tracks were inconclusive. (06:58, 07:56)
• Relationship Context:
  • Debbie had left Bob and was dating a coworker, John Pearson.
  • Friends reported Debbie feared Bob, citing earlier incidents of violence: “If something happens to me, Bob did it.” — paraphrased from (08:13)

Suspicion Shifts: New Boyfriend as Alternate Suspect

• John Pearson (Debbie’s New Partner):
  • Interviewed early, provided unusually detailed descriptions of Debbie’s car, raising suspicions.
  • Passed a polygraph and was reportedly cooperative with police. (09:39–11:06)
  • DNA evidence and further investigation eventually excluded him as a suspect.

The Cold Case Heats Up

• Reexamination Decades Later:
  • Cold case unit reviews evidence with new technology and “fresh eyes.” (12:36)
  • DNA Testing: Minute DNA found on Debbie’s coat couldn't exclude Bob, but was such a tiny trace (equivalent to six skin cells) that the defense argued it was likely from routine contact, especially as they shared custody of their daughter.
  • Soil Analysis: Mud from Debbie’s car closely resembled soil from Bob’s lawn, adding circumstantial weight but disputed as potentially common to the region. (13:56–14:38)

Bob Atrops’ Changing Story and Arrest

• The Phone Call Mystery Revisited:
  • In a 2022 interview, Bob claimed he had used an MCI calling card, not previously mentioned, to explain the lack of phone records. Prosecutors found this unconvincing (why would a frantic husband calmly dial a 16-digit code?). (15:02)
• Bob’s Arrest:
  • March 2023: Bob Atrops is arrested and charged with Debbie’s murder. (15:56)

Other Suspects and Unexpected Developments

• John Pearson’s Suicide:
  • Five days before Bob’s trial, John Pearson, living in Arizona, died by suicide as police arrived at his trailer. (16:20)
  • Prosecutors say it was likely unrelated (a DUI and outstanding warrant), and family indicated John wanted to testify against Bob. (17:15)
• Community and Family Support:
  • While Bob was found guilty, he retained strong support from friends, his daughter Rihanna, and even his fourth wife. (21:41)

Rihanna Atrops: Caught in the Crossfire

• Rihanna’s Experience:
  • Raised solely by Bob, Rihanna (now in her late 30s) described him as a devoted father and grandfather, and asserted his innocence. (11:26)
  • Felt excluded during trial: not given a victim’s advocate, not informed about sensitive court proceedings, and her name mispronounced. She said, “The prosecution stood there in trial and made me out to be the most important thing in my mom’s life. … But the prosecution never treated me as such.” (18:18)
  • Prosecutors denied intentional exclusion, citing perceived lack of interest or alignment with the defense. (18:47–19:39)
  • At sentencing, gave a powerful statement pleading for leniency and expressing her doubled sense of loss. Bob “hardly ever looks up from the table” during her statement. (22:29–23:34)

Trial, Verdict, and Aftermath

• Key Evidence for Prosecution:
  • Alleged history of domestic abuse by Bob
  • Soil and trace DNA as heavily debated circumstantial evidence
  • Debbie’s own warnings and fear, recorded by friends
• Defense Arguments:
  • DNA was minuscule and expected via normal family contact
  • Soil evidence not unique to Bob’s property
  • Questioned reliability of Debbie’s statements about Bob
  • Emotional closing: Defense attorney expressed strong belief in Bob’s innocence (22:18)
• Verdict and Sentencing:
  • Bob Atrops found guilty and sentenced to life, with possibility of parole after 25 years; he would be 93 at earliest release. (23:34)
• Rihanna’s Grief:
  • Has now lost both parents — “a victim twice over.” (22:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Odd Timing of Police Call (Anne-Marie): “Three hours was too soon to be calling the police.” (02:08)
• On Bob’s Call Records (Natalie): “All these phone calls should have been recorded somewhere as long distance calls on a phone bill. So it became a big part of the mystery was, where are these calls?” (04:41)
• On Debbie’s Fear (Natalie): “She had even told friends, if something happens to me, Bob did it.” (08:13)
• On Rihanna’s Experience (Rihanna Atrops): “The prosecution stood there in trial and made me out to be the most important thing in my mom’s life… But the prosecution never treated me as such.” (18:18)
• On Prosecution's View of Excluding Rihanna (Prosecutor): “We had the indication that she didn’t want to have any contact with us, that she was on the defendant’s side and that wasn’t interested in being… part of our case.” (18:59)
• On Sentencing Scene (Natalie): “Bob, at that point, he hardly ever looks in her direction and hardly ever looks up from the table… as a parent, if that was my child saying, I need my parent, I just can’t imagine not being emotional in that moment.” (23:01)
• On Loss and Family Tragedy (Natalie): “This is truly a tragic love story… all that was lost. And Rihanna says she feels that loss every day.” (23:48)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Bob’s Odd 911 Call: 02:08
• No Phone Records for Bob’s Calls: 04:17–05:33
• Discovery of Debbie’s Body & Forensics: 06:29–08:04
• Relationship Troubles and Domestic Abuse Allegations: 08:13–08:57, 20:21
• Suspicions around John Pearson (New Boyfriend): 09:39–10:46
• Case Goes Cold, Debbi’s Daughter and Life After: 11:26–12:36
• DNA & Soil Evidence Re-examined: 12:54–14:38
• Bob’s Changing Story About Phone Calls: 15:02
• John Pearson’s Suicide: 16:20–17:44
• Rihanna’s Perspective and Role in the Case: 17:49–19:39, 22:29
• Trial, Defense, and Sentencing: 21:33–23:34
• Final Thoughts on Family Loss: 23:48–24:26

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Tone and Language

Throughout, Anne-Marie and Natalie balance empathetic concern for the family’s trauma with careful, skeptical analysis of the trial evidence and investigative process. The conversation is thoughtful, at times anguished, particularly regarding Rihanna's heartbreak, and frequently returns to the theme of complicated, ambiguous justice in long-unsolved cases.

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Final Thoughts

This “Post Mortem” episode offers a deep, personal look at the lasting impact of cold case investigations on families, the challenges of re-evaluating old evidence, and how justice — even when it finally arrives — can feel tragically incomplete for those left behind. The story underscores how time, memory, and advances in forensic science can reshape a case, but not always restore what’s lost.

Transcript

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[Ann Marie Green]

Foreign. Welcome back to postmortem. I'm your host Ann Marie Green. And joining me today is 48 Hours correspondent Natalie Morales. We are going to discuss the case of Deborah Aatrobs. Now, back in 1988, the young mother was found strangled to death in the trunk of her car in Oregon. For decades, her murder remained unsolved and it would take 37 years to bring her killer to justice. Joining me now is Natalie.

[Natalie Morales]

Hi, Ann Marie. Good to be with you.

[Ann Marie Green]

Hey Natalie, it's always good to be with you. This is one of those hours that I just kind of went back and forth. I was so convinced that they, you know, that they had the right suspect and they then they had the wrong suspect. I just, I was ping ponging, I.

[Natalie Morales]

Think it even for me, as I was reporting on this case, it was, I was very conflicted. Even our producers, we were conflicted. But this case was cold for over 30 years. So really it was all about figuring out what new evidence could be presented at trial.

[Ann Marie Green]

If you haven't listened to the 48 Hours episode yet, you can find the full audio version just below this episode in your podcast feed. Go take a listen and then come on back for the conversation. Deborah or Debbie Atrops was last seen Alive on Tuesday, November 29, 1988. Her husband, Bob Atrops, first reported her missing to Oregon police when she said she never arrived to pick up their baby daughter Rihanna from Bob's house. Uh, so I should point out that Bob and her, they're estranged, right? So they have been separated um, but Bob calls the police, like pretty quickly after he felt that she should have been picking up their daughter. He tells them that Debbie was running about three hours late from a hairdressing appointment. So to me, this was like the first indication, like very early on I thought, oh, yeah, he's the one. Because I just, it just seemed like three hours was too soon to be calling the police. And at least in the portion of the 911 call that we heard, it's not like he said, I've been everywhere. I went to her apartment. I, I called the hairdresser. Like, it just Something about the 911 call seemed off.

[Natalie Morales]

Yeah, all valid points, Anne Marie, you know, and actually really wasn't even three hours because her appointment ended at 7:15. She was expected back at Bob A trop's house around 7:30, 8:00'. Clock. So he's calling really less than two hours after that time frame. And police, well, Detective O', Connell, I should say, who was one of the initial people who was on this case. He, he said that felt strange to him too. It's sort of that Shakespearean, you know, that quote, thou doth protest too much. And prosecutors believe those phone calls were almost to try to make police believe that he wasn't involved.

[Ann Marie Green]

Interesting. Now, he does say back in 1988, he tells police that he called other people. He says he called the babysitter, called Debbie's boss and her parents from his home. Ph. But the problem with that is that it couldn't be confirmed because there was no record of these phone calls on his home phone. And they were long distance. So they, they should have been a record someplace.

[Natalie Morales]

Yeah. And I should remind people this is 1988, this is Oregon. So calling from one town to the other town, that could sometimes be a long distance call. Bob lived about 30 miles from where Debbie's parents lived. So all these phone calls should have been recorded somewhere as long distance calls on a phone bill. So it became a big part of the mystery was, where are these calls? Now we know that he did place these calls because Debbie's parents did confirm and her stepfather confirmed that they received the calls. The babysitter confirmed that she received a call. So the question is, where did he make the calls from? Investigators believe that Bob maybe had, you know, committed the murder and was just trying to get rid of the car and dispose of Debbie's body. And that's when he made those calls as he was out and about.

[Ann Marie Green]

Were they looking for, I don't know, public telephone?

[Natalie Morales]

Like, telephone went around and looked at all the public pay phones that they could find. They tried to get phone records off the pay phones, but that said, you can't go around and trace and track every payphone in the neighborhood. I should also say the one phone call that bob didn't make, which was very telling to investigators, was he didn't try to call Debbie's house. Now, remember, they're estranged, so she has an apartment in Salem, Oregon, and he never even calls the apartment and never goes to the apartment either, to try to see if she ended up deciding to go straight home. So that was very telling to investigators. Bob aatrops explained that away as saying, well, I had already called Debbie's parents, and they said she had not gone home.

[Ann Marie Green]

Okay. So, you know, sadly, Debbie is not a missing person for very long. Less than two days later, police discovered her abandoned car near a construction site. And then inside, they discover Debbie's body face down in the trunk of her car. She had been strangled, but no signs of sexual assault. So at this point, I would think the only person to look at would be Bob. Did police zero in on him as a suspect right away?

[Natalie Morales]

You know, obviously, as we have reported, all too often, the partner or the spouse, or in this case, the estranged spouse, Is definitely the first person they consider. And they look at, and they did search outside Bob's house. They, in fact, checked his driveway, which was a gravel and muddy sort of driveway. They took pictures of that driveway. They even took a mud sample of the drive driveway and the lawn as well. Because on the top of the car, the hood of the car, it appeared there had been some mud, Evidence that had been wiped away on Debbie atrop's body. On her coat, they found mud. On her shoes. They were muddied as well. So they were trying to match the sample of mud specifically, and also trying to verify the tire tracks. Now, they never could verify her tire tracks on his driveway. A lot of people, a lot of friends were visiting in the time that he reported Debbie missing. Obviously, a lot of people very concerned about Debbie. So police were never able to definitively say whether or not debbie had come back to the house based on tire tracks.

[Ann Marie Green]

So then let's talk about their relationship. We know they're strange, but, I mean, do we know anything about the nature of the relationship? At the time that she goes missing.

[Natalie Morales]

She was living, as I said, in this whole other apartment. She was also involved in an entirely new relationship with a man named John pearson. Friends said that Debbie was very afraid of Bob finding out that she was already dating this guy. John Pearson was somebody she worked with. And Bob apparently knew her boss. They were good friends, so it wouldn't be, you know, too crazy for him to find out. But Debbie's friend, Tammy Nelson also said back in 1988 that Bob A Jobs had a temper, that he had actually had choked her, according to Debbie, shortly before she moved out. And, you know, she had even told friends, if something happens to me, Bob did it.

[Ann Marie Green]

Yeah, those are definitely some famous last words. But she is dating this other person, John Pearson, which is what started me when I was watching the Hour. Moving away from Bob as a suspect. He was interviewed by police. He told police that he had been with his estranged wife and children on the night of Debbie's disappearance. But he also gave a detailed description, a really detailed description of Debbie's car and what was in the trunk. And it just. I know I can't even tell you really, what's in my trunk right now. So it just seemed like an odd amount of detail to remember, you know?

[Natalie Morales]

Yeah, I mean, it was a very detailed description of what was in the trunk. You know, John told police even how could a body even fit in the trunk?

[Ann Marie Green]

Which kind of strange like that words.

[Natalie Morales]

To say he thought the trunk was too small. And so I asked the prosecutors, Alison Brown and Chris Luman, about that. Take a listen.

[Prosecutor]

John Pierson told police back then that there was a Burger King bag as well as a box with cranberries and a child car seat. Seems like a lot of details about the car. I mean, that's not details that I don't think my husband knows what's in my car.

[Natalie Morales]

That seems like somebody who's very intimately.

[Prosecutor]

Involved with knowing what's in the contents of that vehicle.

Well, and I think we knew that Mr. Pierson had been with her. I mean, he admitted that he'd been with her, they'd been dating and was in that car frequently. And then I think his surprise at how could the body fit in the trunk. I mean, as we mentioned, it was delicately placed in there. It is not a large trunk. And that had to have taken some effort to sort of get Debbie's body in the trunk.

Does it seem like an odd commentary, though?

[Rihanna Atrops]

Yeah, I mean, I think they asked.

[Prosecutor]

Him specific questions about the car and its condition. And they were seeing each other every day. I mean, not only were they in a romantic relationship, they both worked at Wellands, so they would often have lunch together. I think they had lunch together the day prior. And so, you know, he would see, he would See her often.

[Natalie Morales]

Detective O', Connell, who interviewed Pierson back in 1988, said that Pierson was actually very forthcoming when he was questioned. He agreed to many interviews, in fact, and that he even took a polygraph. He passed the polygraph. So Detective o' Connell felt like it wasn't like Pearson was trying to hide anything at the time.

[Ann Marie Green]

Okay. And at the time, there's still some question marks about Bob, but there's really no evidence connecting Bob or anyone else to Debbie's murder. So the case goes cold. Right. Meanwhile, Bob continues to live life. He raises the couple's daughter, Rihanna. She's in her late 30s right now. You spoke to her. She describes him as a great dad. He's doting and attentive, and he's a fantastic grandfather to her three children. Bob. Um, she does not believe that he had anything to do with her mother's murder.

[Natalie Morales]

Yeah, you know, it was. It was heartbreaking speaking with her, of course, because here's a. A. A young woman who never even knew her mother. She was eight months old when her mother died. So she feels that loss still very greatly in her life. And then now she said she feels like she's lost the only person that she feels she could count on her entire life. And that was her father who raised her. And she does feel like he is 100% innocent.

[Ann Marie Green]

Well, decades after Debbie's murder, detectives and prosecutors with the Cold case unit start looking at Bob Atrops again. And we have seen this before, Natalie. Sometimes it's the same evidence, but with fresh eyes, and they see things completely different.

[Natalie Morales]

Fresh eyes and new technology. I mean, keep in mind from 1988 now to, you know, 30 plus years later, how much DNA has changed things when it comes to cold cases. There was, you know, Debbie's coat. With that, they take a look at the DNA evidence, and they were able to exclude John Pearson and Jeff Freeberg, who was a former ex, but he was no longer romantically involved with Debbie. However, they couldn't definitively exclude Bob Atrops. Now, the defense points out the amount of DNA that they had was the equivalent of perhaps six skin cells, which is a minute amount. So they said this is like the weakest bit of evidence that you could possibly even have. And they said as well, according to the defense, the fact that they shared custody of Rihanna, it's expected that there would be some sort of cross contamination with DNA. And remember those soil samples that I talked about from the driveway and the evidence that was on the car? So the FBI analyzed the mud that was found on the tire of the car. And also they looked at the soil that was taken from Bob Aatrops lawn and they said that the mud on the tire was indistinguishable from the mud from Bob's lawn in color, composition and texture. So that would be a real compelling piece of evidence. In fact, there became this whole part of the trial that was all about the soil evidence. They had soil experts testify. The defense said though, when it comes down to it, it's soil that is so commonplace in the Willamette Valley that they're like, how could you definitively say that it's not Bob a traps his lawn?

[Ann Marie Green]

Yeah. And so then detectives do something really interesting like one of the holes in Bob's story back then is about these phone calls. Right. How come there's no record of these phone calls you say you made? So they re interview him in 2022 and they ask him again about that night and the phone calls he made. But this time he's got a different story that he didn't tell them the first time around.

[Natalie Morales]

Right. So. So Bob is a salesman. And so at the time he was so his. Now he's telling detectives, you know, all these years later. Well, those phone calls weren't there because I used an MCI calling card to make those calls. And the prosecutors were like, no, no, no, that just doesn't add up. Because when you make a call using these calling cards, then you have to punch in this code, this 16 digit code. It just didn't sound like the act of a frantic husband who's calling 91 1. But then also is he like sitting there punching in the code to, to, you know, just try to make these calls? It, it just didn't add up to the prosecutors.

[Ann Marie Green]

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

[Natalie Morales]

The defense, however, presented somebody at the trial who said that the equipment could have been faulty at the time and it didn't necessarily record all the calls that came through in the area.

[Ann Marie Green]

Okay, but ultimately detectives do arrest him. Right. He's arrested in March of 2023 for Debbie's murder. What about the other suspects though? Because I gotta tell you, when I was watching, yes, initially the phone call was. It was. Troubled me. But later on I thought, well, what about John? I mean there are other people.

[Natalie Morales]

Yeah, yeah. You know, Jeff Freeberg, I think Detective o', Connell, they pretty much figured he was not a person of interest. Also back from the lab, the DNA evidence, the mixture from the coat from, from Debbie Aytrop's coat excluded John Pearson however, what was interesting about John Pearson, he had apparently moved to Arizona and was living in a trailer when five days before Bob Atrops trial, two police officers show up outside the trailer. They are out there. They're saying, we're here. We want to talk to you. John Pearson looks out the window, sees them, and then kills himself.

[Ann Marie Green]

See, for me, that was. I thought, wait a minute. Why would you do that? Right? What are you trying to hide?

[Natalie Morales]

Right. According to the prosecution, he had a dui, apparently, that he was wanted in court for. Take a listen.

[Prosecutor]

He had an open criminal case. I believe he thought they were there to arrest him for this misdemeanor warrant and. And took his life.

[Natalie Morales]

The prosecution also noted his family said he wanted to testify against Bob Aatrops. We don't really know what was going on in his mind at the time, but investigators and the prosecutors truly believe there is no evidence that points to John Pearson in this case, that all the evidence squarely pointed at Bob Aatrops.

[Ann Marie Green]

So when Bob is arrested, though, his daughter Rihanna is completely blindsided.

[Natalie Morales]

Yeah, Rihanna, you know, she's just been so upset at the entire process. She said, you know, she got a call at 5am that morning telling her that her father, Bob Aatrox, had been arrested. Beyond that, she says that at trial, they kept calling her Rihanna instead of Rihanna, which is how her name is pronounced. She was never given a victim's advocate, whereas Debbie's brother and stepfather had a victim's advocate at their side. Here's a little bit more of what she had to say.

[Rihanna Atrops]

The prosecution stood there in trial and made me out to be the most important thing in my mom's life. I'm her baby, her daughter. But the prosecution never treated me as such.

[Natalie Morales]

So I asked the prosecutors about that. I asked the point blank. I mean, how did they feel about how they treated her? And here's what they had to say.

[Prosecutor]

And during the trial, Rhianna told us that she was not contacted by a victim's advocate from your office, even though here it is, it's her mother who was murdered.

[Natalie Morales]

Why not?

[Prosecutor]

We had the indication that she didn't want to have any contact with us, that she was on the defendant's side and that wasn't interested in being part of our case or having contact with the prosecution. That was my understanding.

She also said that she was not informed ahead of time when the autopsy photos were going to be shown in court on the day during the trial. Meanwhile, you know, Debbie's brother had been informed ahead of time and he left the courtroom because he knew it would be too hard to see. What do you say to that?

Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine how that would feel. Again, her not having contact with our office.

[Natalie Morales]

We.

[Prosecutor]

It's difficult for us to sort of alert everybody in the courtroom. Here's what we're about to do. And certainly that was not intentional.

[Ann Marie Green]

Yeah. You know, sometimes it's the nature of the system that, you know, if you're not a defendant and you're not a witness, then it's like you don't have a role.

[Natalie Morales]

Right. And that's how she feels. She feels that she got lost in the process, but also that they excluded her because they knew she was on her father's side and she was going to defend him all the way.

[Ann Marie Green]

So then what sort of evidence did the prosecution have? What sort of evidence did they present that connected Bob to this crime?

[Natalie Morales]

Perhaps the most compelling part of evidence, according to the prosecution, was the alleged pattern of domestic abuse in their relationship. Debbie's mother had told police at the time of the murder that Bob Aatrox was verbally, physically abusive and very controlling, that she immediately suspected that Bob was the killer. And as we mentioned earlier, her friend Tammy Nelson testified that Debbie told Tammy that he had choked her before. I mean, that right there is evidence. Tammy also told the defense team that Debbie told her that she was scared of Bob, especially when they had to hand off Rihanna. That's when those moments, those confrontations could happen. And that's exactly what prosecutors believe in, is what happened when Debbie went to the house that night. He had found out about her relationship with John Pearson, and that set it up for that night for this confrontation, and for him to then, in a fit of rage, strangle Debbie Aatrops. The defense argued, however, that Debbie's stories were unreliable.

[Ann Marie Green]

We hear this version of Bob, but at trial, there were a lot of people that were there supporting him, not just his daughter.

[Natalie Morales]

Yes, he had a lot of support, including his fourth wife was there. He's, you know, been married since 2011. He did have two other marriages and divorces after Debbie's murder. So, you know, but as Chris Lumen, the assistant prosecutor, said that he can be charming and he knows how to get his way and how to have people, you know, believe him.

[Ann Marie Green]

So ultimately, though, the jury does find him guilty of murdering Debbie Aatrops. The defense was rather emotional, and you don't see that very often.

[Natalie Morales]

Yeah, yeah. In fact, defense attorney April Yates was very emotional. She said that Bob Aatrobs is. Is in an Innocent person who has been convicted.

[Ann Marie Green]

Of course, Rihanna is now a victim twice over. That's the way she feels. She mentioned that to you. She never got to know her mother, and now she's lost her father. And she gave a really powerful statement at his sentencing. I'm curious about the reaction when she read that statement.

[Natalie Morales]

It was a moment that I felt was very, very telling. You know, Rihanna is there. She's pleading with the judge to, you know, spare her father, to be more lenient in his sentencing, telling the judge that she and her three kids, they need their father and grandfather. Bob, at that point, he hardly ever looks in her direction and hardly ever looks up from the table. Now the question is, is he so wracked with guilt, or is this somebody, you know, who's just being stoic and having to deal with, you know, this verdict and now the sentencing? It's hard to say how you would interpret it. I think it's up to the viewer's interpretation here. But as a parent, if that was my child saying, I need my parent, I just can't imagine not being emotional in that moment.

[Ann Marie Green]

Absolutely. Bob Aatrobs received a life sentence with the possibility of parole after 25 years. If he is to be released, he would be 93 years old at the time. How is Rihanna grappling with this?

[Natalie Morales]

She says she's trying to be strong and she's trying to keep up the fight, but she's very upset and really at the heart of all of this. This is truly a. A tragic love story. It's so clear when you see from the very first frames of the home video, you know, after adopting Rihanna, how much Debbie Aatrops bonded with that baby. That love just screams through the screen, and you can't help but think all that was lost. And Rihanna says she feels that loss every day. And now, of course, she's dealing with having, you know, to. To lose her father in the process as well. So it's a tragic story all around.

[Ann Marie Green]

Absolutely. Decades waiting for some sort of justice, and then there are other people involved who think there's no justice at all. But ultimately, my heart breaks for Rihanna and everything that she has lost.

[Natalie Morales]

Yes. I mean, she's a strong person, and, you know, fortunately, she has a lot of people who are supporting her through this.

[Ann Marie Green]

Yeah. That's good to hear. That's good to hear. Thank you so much, Natalie.

[Natalie Morales]

Thank you.

[Ann Marie Green]

And if you like this episode, please rate and review us on Apple podcasts or Spotify.

[Jackson Hewitt Advertiser]

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[Ann Marie Green]

Which would make you low key loaded.

[Jackson Hewitt Advertiser]

Or at least wealthy adjacent. Go with our trusted Pros and get $100 to switch. Rest easy. Jackson Hewitt's got your taxes guaranteed limited time offer for new clients. Participate in locations only. [e-mail] I'm back.

[Prosecutor]

I'm really back.

[School Spirits Narrator]

School Spirits returned Why am I here? Not dead right?

[Natalie Morales]

Disruption on this campus will not be tolerated.

[Ann Marie Green]

28 I look crazy.

[Prosecutor]

It's because that's how I feel. I don't know how to live in two worlds.

[School Spirits Narrator]

Secrets lurk. There are others beneath the surface. They're not like us. We need to get out of here now. School Spirits new season streaming January 28th only on Paramount Plus.