Post Mortem | The Neighbor Across The Street - 48 Hours

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[00:00]
A
True crime is full of unanswered questions. But earning your degree doesn't have to be a mystery. That's where Southern New Hampshire University comes in. SNHU offers more than 200 online degree programs with flexibility that puts you in the driver's seat and trusted support to keep you on track even when life takes an unexpected turn. Find the answers you're searching for at SNHU.edu 48 hours the Hulu original series
[00:30]
B
Furious is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. From Liz Merriweather, the Emmy nominated executive producer of Dying for Sex and the Dropout comes a gripping psychological thriller. Starring Emmy Rosem as Alice Black, Furious follows a rookie FBI agent on the hunt for Catherine, played by Lola Pettigrew, a mysterious, calculating female serial killer. While Alice upholds justice, Catherine kills for it, terrorizing the rich and powerful men of New York in her pursuit of vengeance. As their twisted game of cat and mouse unfolds, the lines between good and evil begin to blur. With shocking crimes, tangled relationships, and secrets that change everything, Alice discovers there's a thin line between hunter and prey. Watch the Hulu original series Furious now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host Ann Marie Green. And today we are speaking with 48 Hours correspondent Erin Moriarty about the case of Katina Rose Salerno. In 1979, Katina was shot on campus at the University of the Pacific in California. It was the first day of her freshman year and the assailant was her high school boyfriend, Stephen Burns. Katina was just 18 years old at the time. Burns was convicted of second degree murder in 1980 and he's been in prison for four decades. Katina's family wants to keep it that way. They have attended every single parole board hearing, 13 in total, to advocate against his release. So Aaron is joining us now. Erin, thank you so much.
[02:27]
A
Well, I'm very happy to be here. Thank you, Amari. Because this case, as you're gonna hear, was eye opening on so many different levels. I've seen it all, but I hadn't seen this. And so I wanna talk about it.
[02:40]
B
Yeah, we don't talk often about this sort of component of the criminal justice system, the parole system. So I'm looking forward to digging into it. I do wanna remind everyone that if you haven't already listened to this episode of 48 Hours, find it in your podcast stream just above this one. Go ahead, go listen and then come on back. Katina Salerno and Steven Burns. They were high school sweethearts. They lived across the street from each other. But when Katina tried to break up with him, Burns threatened to kill her. She left and she went to college. And she was absolutely shocked when he turned up at the same college as her. They had discussed this before and he was supposed to be going to another college. They go off to their separate dorms to settle in, but he asks to speak with her and she agrees to do so. She tells her roommate, I'll be back. She never comes back. So what I found, just as a journalist, very, very impressive is the sheer number of people you all were able to track down from decades ago. We're talking about Katina's roommate, the then young student who stumbled upon Katina fighting for her life in the middle of campus. The patrol officer who stayed in her hospital room because he did not want her to be alone. Talk to me about how you all managed to get in contact with all of these people and convince them to participate.
[04:15]
A
It wasn't me. I'm as impressed as you are. We have these amazing producers, people who are willing to dig and as you point out, they had to go back 45 years and they managed to find so many people from that time. And what that allowed us to do with this story was bring the past alive in a way that is remarkable but also heartbreaking. And as you mentioned, Randy Haight, who was the patrol officer Young back then, 45 years ago. And it's so moving to hear, you know, when he gets to the hospital, he's wondering why no one in the family is there. But that's because they're in San Francisco at the college and her parents can't get there yet. And so he doesn't leave her. He and another officer stay there until she dies and until the coroner gets there. And it's so moving. He's still friends with the family and even went to the very last parole hearing.
[05:17]
B
Wow.
[05:18]
A
And then to be able to talk to these now grown up roommates of both Katina and Stephen Burns. And I think what really hit me was that event so struck Stephen Burns roommate Les, who really only knew him for a day, realized this was the first day of college, really. And he comes back with two really interesting stories is one, of course, is that Stephen had already come into that room and set up a shrine to Katina. And so I had asked him and I said, well, did he happen to mention that she had broken up with him? And he goes, no. He said, I saw more pictures than I'd ever seen. And also I was struck by the fact that that Les had told us that he had been watching Monday Night Football when Stephen came back. But Stephen told the police he had been there all night. So that gives you a real sense right away from the beginning who Stephen Burns was.
[06:20]
B
Absolutely. The other thing that kind of was really brought home to me by seeing all these people is the amount of time that has passed and, like, who Katina could have been, you know? Cause, like, here they are, they're all grown up. They've lived whole lives, whole careers. Like, wow, who would she have been if she had been allowed to sort of live these next four decades, you know?
[06:43]
A
Right. But Anne Marie, there is something really special. Even though she never got a chance to live her life, she lives on in. In these people's lives. What was so interesting to me is they hadn't forgotten her. That one act by Stephen Burns wasn't just. Didn't mean just the end of her life or affect her family. It affected so many people's lives. And Les was talking as if it had happened yesterday. And Randy Haight, the officer who sat there is still. You could see him thinking back to that night. So she never got a chance to live her life, but she certainly made an impact.
[07:25]
B
Indeed. So this is not the first time that 48 hours has actually covered this case. And I love it when we can kind of go into the archives. But the first report on the case was done in 1990 by correspondent Bernard Goldberg.
[07:38]
A
Yes, it was. Bernard Goldberg was the very first correspondent with 48 Hours. And I've been around long enough to remember Bernard Goldberg and I actually joined as a full time correspondent three years later. But he was the very first and really was a terrific correspondent at the time. And that was a time when 48 hours, where we got the name was we would spend 48 hours or more on a story. And so you really see it, even when you see Bernard talking to the family during our hour of how much time he was spending with them, because he was spending a lot of time with them on the fly as they were going to the very first parole hearing.
[08:25]
B
Yeah. I mean, he's sort of talking very comfortably.
[08:29]
A
Yeah. We would go everywhere with people. We would joke that they would be so tired of us. And I could tell when someone I was interviewing would say, yes, Aaron, because I've been there for 48 hours. Wow. So Bernard Goldberg spent a lot of time with his family to see what would happen at that very first parole hearing.
[08:52]
B
So then why did 48 hours decide to update viewers on this case? Was it because there was another parole hearing coming up? I mean, who, I guess who would have thought that there would have been so many parole hearings between then and now?
[09:06]
A
Emory, we stay on stories for a long time. And yes, it was because there was the 13th parole hearing. And I have to tell you, remember I said this was eye opening in my mind he was finally going to get out. I mean, I didn't realize all the elements that really go in to determine whether someone should get parole or not.
[09:30]
B
And I thought it was really good that you explored that idea, you know, asking, listen, like, what is justice? What is the system for? Are you sure that you're in the pursuit of justice or is this just like a personal thing? Because, you know, it's hard to get over someone taking someone you loved. I thought you, the way you explored it was just. Was delicate but direct.
[09:55]
A
Well, and the California law does allow for parole when somebody is judged to be suitable for parole. So you had to wonder what was the motive behind the family keeping him in? And so I did think we had to raise it. But they said he stalked her and he would never admit at these parole hearings that he had stalked her. And so their concern was that if he was ever out, he could still hurt somebody by stalking or controlling behavior, even if he didn't kill someone. I didn't understand that until I worked on this story.
[10:32]
B
We're gonna dig in a little bit more to that. But I just wanna ask you something about the court case, which was really surprising to me. I know it was back in 1980, but Katina's two sisters, Regina and Nina, they testified in Burns trial, but Nina was just 14 years old and she had to testify without her parents in the courtroom. They were not allowed why she was a minor.
[10:56]
A
Well, it's really interesting. The Salerno said that when they first went to this trial, they thought that there was more attention and more concern for the defendant's rights than victims rights. Harriet and Michael were not allowed into the trial because they were on the witness list. And back then that was the thought that if you're going to testify to trial, you can't be at the trial because it could affect your own testimony. Nina, who was only 14, had to testify against Stephen Burns, the young man who had been her friend. She saw him as a brother. No one else was allowed to go in with her. Her parents weren't in the court, and so they did not want to have other victims go through what they did. So Harriet made it her life's work to help other victims. And so now because of Harriet's group, now a young person who has to testify goes in with a support person. So they've made a difference for other victims,
[12:08]
B
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[14:46]
A
Aaron?
[14:46]
B
I don't think I knew exactly how the parole system works, but 13 sounds like a lot. Why was he up for parole so many times?
[14:54]
A
Well, every state is different, but what happens is at a parole hearing, the commissioners don't just decide whether you are suitable or unsuitable for parole. They also decide how much time they're going to give you to clean up your act. And so it could be two years, it could be five years. And that's what happened. And so the Salernos, I mean, they didn't have to come back each time, but they did come back every single time.
[15:24]
B
So this is really interesting because you interviewed Kevin Anderson, who was once a pediatrician and formerly incarcerated with Burns. He now counsels or he's a counselor, and he worked with Burns in mock hearing sessions to prep him for his last parole hearing. Very interesting. Kevin told you that he felt that Burns did deserve to be released. How did you connect to Kevin and how does he feel now?
[15:52]
A
So, of course, we asked Stephen Burns to speak with us, and I was hopeful he might, but he did not. What he did instead was suggest that we talk to Kevin Anderson. And Kevin Anderson did give us a lot of insight into Stephen Burns. And when I first met him, which was right before the 13th parole hearing, he said that he had worked with him while he was still in prison. He had gotten out on parole and thought that Stephen Burns had finally come to accept the behaviors that had led to the shooting. He even described what Stephen had told him about how he had looked at Katina and seen the fear in her eyes. And another big question in this, which is almost as troubling, is the fact that he shot his girlfriend. She didn't die immediately. He didn't call 911. So it wasn't just that he shot her. He let her die. He goes back to his dorm and starts watching Monday Night Football and never says a word. When I talked to Les, Les said he didn't even look nervous. So Kevin Anderson said to us, this time he actually admitted what a coward he had been. So Kevin thought, this is what he's gonna tell the parole board this 13th parole board, and that he's finally going to admit to the behaviors that led to him thinking it was okay to kill his girlfriend if she didn't wanna be with him anymore.
[17:30]
B
But you didn't.
[17:31]
A
No, he did not.
[17:33]
B
So how does Kevin feel? About him.
[17:34]
A
Now, I've got to give a lot of credit to Kevin Anderson. I was very impressed with him, because when he read the transcript from that 13th parole hearing, he was shocked. And so he wrote Liza Finley, who was the producer of this show, and God bless him, he said, oh, my gosh, I was wrong. This guy is not ready for parole. Can you believe this? That Kevin Anderson said? And so I had to be back in San Francisco anyway, which is where Kevin Anderson is. And I went back to have him explain. And he's the one who said to me, you know, he might never shoot someone again, but he has not come to terms with his controlling behavior. And he could still hurt somebody without killing them. He could still cause damage. Mm.
[18:31]
B
I wanna talk a little bit about filming the day of that most recent parole hearing. This is in 2025. There's this really sort of tender moment with you, Erin, that you're driving in the backseat, you're with Harriet, who's Katina's mom, and you sort of reach out to touch her hand. Can you tell me about, you know, what was happening in that moment?
[18:55]
A
Well, we all know, Emery, that we're not ever become part of a story. And I try really hard not to, but I've worked at 48 hours for such a long time, and you spend so much time with people. It wasn't that I just reached out to touch her. She said to me that she was shaking. She's a 92 year old woman who was going to her 13th parole hearing, was very worried that the man who killed her daughter could get out and hurt someone else. And I just put my hand on hers and she was shaking and. And that it was just the right thing to do at that moment.
[19:33]
B
But it really lets you know that it never gets easier. You would think by 13, you would, I don't know, know exactly what to expect, know exactly what you want the board members to hear. But it's still like this emotional upheaval to yet to go there again.
[19:53]
A
Yes. This was, she said, as tough almost as the first one.
[19:58]
B
Yeah. Wow. Wow. In fact, you sat with Harriet and the family in the conference room and watched the parole hearing. 48 hours couldn't bring cameras in there, so it was just kind of you in there with the family. But tell me what that was like.
[20:13]
A
Well, I felt very blessed to be able to sit in there because we were not allowed to record any of it, but they did. Commissioners allowed me to sit in. And so, of course, I was dying of curiosity to get a sense of who Stephen Burns was. You know, there were other people that he had encountered during prison. According to a complaint brought up at previous parole hearings, a couple of instructors said that he made them uncomfortable.
[20:42]
B
Were they. Were they women? The instructors?
[20:43]
A
Women. Women, yes. Both instructors. Sorry. Both instructors were women. One when she wouldn't allow him into a class that he wanted to get into, and another when he did not think he got the grade he deserved. And it wasn't so much that he said something to them that wasn't the problem, but that the way he said it and the way he felt entitled. And I think you could hear it from the commissioner that the commissioners believe the same thing, that he just. He could not hear himself. He could not see his own behavior as troubling as it was. And so they found him unsuitable. It just. He has not acknowledged, accepted what he did back then. That's what the family is concerned about.
[21:35]
B
Yeah. You know, just as an aside, this is a family who opened their doors and their heart to a young man and like, to that level of betrayal to welcome him into your home. Cause Katina's father sort of took him a little bit under his wing, right?
[21:50]
A
Oh, my gosh, yes. And Nina. Nina saw him as, you know, the sports, the athlete. She was an athlete, and so he was like a brother, and she trusted him. And the girls felt so betrayed by the guy across the street that took away their big sister and changed their lives forever.
[22:16]
B
Right.
[22:17]
A
It was a betrayal to every person in that family.
[22:21]
B
And you had mentioned a little bit earlier that, like, that it kind of changed the trajectory of their lives in certain ways.
[22:28]
A
Again, that was eye opening to me, too, just how much this one act affected this family forever. Harriet with her victims group, where she helped change the law and still goes to work every day at age 92. And then you have Nina, who had to testify by herself and that, because of that awful experience, became a prosecutor focusing on victims of abuse so that other people don't have to go through that. And then Regina, who, remembering that her sister died in a hospital, became a nurse. So it was an awful thing that this family went through. But every member of that family made their tragedy better for other people.
[23:21]
B
Absolutely. You know, Erin, like, every once in a while people will ask me, isn't it sort of depressing to work on these sort of stories? And I always say no, because for every story, there's heroes. And here you have an entire family that are heroic in their efforts to make sure that no one else becomes a victim the way that their loved one became, you know, Annemarie, I'm just
[23:50]
A
like you people say, how can you deal with this after all these years? Erin and I go because I don't think about the horror. I think about the heroes.
[24:00]
B
I love that. I absolutely love that. Erin Another great hour. It was really an interesting way to sort of delve into the story. We don't talk enough about the parole system, what's great about it, but also what's really challenging about it, especially for the families of the victims. So thank you so much.
[24:18]
A
Thank you, Emery. I'll be back, as you know.
[24:21]
B
I know you will. And if you like this series postmortem, please rate and review 48 hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad free with a 48 hours plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening. I've realized lately that the products I use every single morning genuinely affect how I feel for the rest of the day. If something feels heavy, greasy, overly makeupy or complicated, I just stop reaching for it. That's why I've been loving Primally Pure's new Sun Serum Tinted SPF. It gives mineral SPF F30 protection and enough coverage to make my skin look even and healthy. But it still looks like my skin. It has this really fresh, lived in glow. And their Lip and Cheek tint has become one of those products I keep throwing on throughout the day because it makes me look instantly more awake and put together in like 10 seconds. The whole vibe just feels very effortless. Skin first Clean Girl Beauty products that enhance your skin. If you've been wanting your routine to feel lighter, simpler and more natural this summer, definitely check out Primally Pure's Sun Serum and Lip and Cheek Tints. Paw Patrol is coming to theaters and it's bigger than ever. Welcome to Dino Island. Run to get tickets.
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Summary6 min read

48 Hours: Post Mortem | "The Neighbor Across The Street"

Host: Anne-Marie Green
Guest: Erin Moriarty, 48 Hours Correspondent
Date: August 4, 2026

Main Theme

This "Post Mortem" episode features a deep-dive discussion between host Anne-Marie Green and 48 Hours correspondent Erin Moriarty about the decades-spanning case of Katina Rose Salerno. In 1979, on her first day as a freshman at the University of the Pacific, Katina was murdered by her former high school boyfriend, Stephen Burns. The episode zeroes in on the emotional and legal complexities faced by Katina’s surviving family, who have endured 13 parole hearings over 40 years, persistently advocating against Burns’ release. The conversation explores the evolution of victims’ rights, the parole process, and the lasting impact of violent crime on families and communities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Revisiting a Tragic Case (02:26–04:15)

Erin Moriarty reflects on the uniqueness of this case, despite her long career:

"I've seen it all, but I hadn't seen this." (02:27–02:32)
The case revolves around the murder of 18-year-old Katina by Stephen Burns, her high school sweetheart who followed her to college after she tried to break up with him.

2. Tracking Down the Past (04:15–07:25)

The producers’ determination is highlighted:

"They managed to find so many people from that time. And what that allowed us to do...was bring the past alive in a way that is remarkable but also heartbreaking." (04:21–04:36)
Notable interviewees include Katina's roommate, the first responder officer (Randy Haight), and Stephen's first-day roommate, Les, who recalled:

"Stephen had already come into that room and set up a shrine to Katina." (05:38–05:50)
Les contradicted Stephen’s police statement about his whereabouts the night of the murder, highlighting Burns' deceit.

3. Legacy of Loss (06:19–07:25)

Anne-Marie reflects on the ripple effects:

"Here they are, they're all grown up... Who would she have been if she had been allowed to sort of live these next four decades?" (06:21–06:43)
Erin stresses Katina’s enduring impact:

"She never got a chance to live her life, but she certainly made an impact." (07:11–07:25)

4. Return to the Archives (07:25–09:05)

The initial coverage by Bernard Goldberg in 1990 is recalled, underscoring 48 Hours’ long-term dedication to the case.

5. The Parole System’s Complexities (09:05–10:32)

Decision to revisit the case was partly due to the 13th upcoming parole hearing.
Erin describes being surprised by how intricate and subjective the parole process is:

"I didn't realize all the elements that really go in to determine whether someone should get parole or not." (09:18–09:29)
The Salerno family fears Burns’ potential for future harm, given his refusal to admit to stalking or controlling behavior:

"Their concern was that if he was ever out, he could still hurt somebody by stalking or controlling behavior, even if he didn't kill someone." (10:13–10:32)

6. Victims’ Rights & the Trial Experience (10:32–12:07)

Katina's 14-year-old sister, Nina, testified alone because her parents were barred from the courtroom—a common practice then to avoid influencing testimony.
Erin notes the shift catalyzed by the Salernos' advocacy:

"Because of Harriet's group, now a young person who has to testify goes in with a support person. So they've made a difference for other victims." (11:49–12:07)

7. How Parole Works (14:45–15:23)

Erin explains the recurring parole hearings result from state commissioners occasionally granting short intervals before reconsideration, compelling the family to face Burns repeatedly:

"They didn't have to come back each time, but they did come back every single time." (15:13–15:23)

8. Burns’ Readiness for Parole & Testimony from Within (15:23–18:31)

Kevin Anderson, a former inmate-turned-counselor, prepped Burns for his parole hearing and initially believed in his rehabilitation.
Erin relays a chilling detail:

"He shot his girlfriend. She didn't die immediately. He didn't call 911. So it wasn't just that he shot her. He let her die. He goes back to his dorm and starts watching Monday Night Football and never says a word." (16:32–17:01)
Anderson changed his opinion after reading the latest parole transcript:

"He said, 'Oh, my gosh, I was wrong. This guy is not ready for parole.'" (17:38–17:44) "He might never shoot someone again, but he has not come to terms with his controlling behavior. And he could still hurt somebody without killing them." (18:15–18:31)

9. Parole Hearing: Emotional Toll (18:31–21:34)

Erin describes an intimate moment with Katina's mother, Harriet, before the 13th parole hearing:

"She said to me that she was shaking. She's a 92-year-old woman going to her 13th parole hearing, very worried... I just put my hand on hers and she was shaking." (18:58–19:24)
Despite her experience, Harriet finds each hearing as difficult as the first.
The parole hearing revealed allegations about Burns' ongoing troubling behavior, including complaints from female prison instructors:

"The way he said it and the way he felt entitled...He has not acknowledged, accepted what he did back then. That's what the family is concerned about." (20:43–21:34)

10. Enduring Betrayal & Family Transformation (21:34–23:20)

The Salernos had welcomed Burns as part of their family, deepening the sense of betrayal:

"To that level of betrayal to welcome him into your home...the guy across the street that took away their big sister and changed their lives forever." (21:42–22:16)
Each family member transformed their trauma into helping others:

"Every member of that family made their tragedy better for other people." (23:17–23:20)

11. Concluding Reflections: Finding Meaning Amid Tragedy (23:20–24:00)

Anne-Marie and Erin agree on the redemptive side of covering such stories:

"I don't think about the horror. I think about the heroes." – Erin Moriarty (23:57–24:00)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

Erin Moriarty, on impact:

"One act by Stephen Burns...didn't mean just the end of her life or affect her family. It affected so many people's lives." (06:57–07:11)
Les’ haunting memory:

"I saw more pictures than I'd ever seen." (5:44–5:47)
Harriet’s quiet grief:

"She said to me that she was shaking. She's a 92-year-old woman who was going to her 13th parole hearing." (18:58–19:09)
Kevin Anderson, changing his mind:

"Oh, my gosh, I was wrong. This guy is not ready for parole." (17:38–17:41)
Erin on purpose:

"I don't think about the horror. I think about the heroes." (23:57–24:00)

Important Timestamps

02:26 – Erin Moriarty joins and reflects on the case’s complexity
04:15 – Tracking down witnesses and key figures from 1979
05:38 – Revelations from Stephen Burns’ college roommate
09:05 – Why 48 Hours returned to the case; parole hearings
10:32 – The trial’s lasting impact on the Salerno family
15:23 – The mechanics of repeated parole hearings
17:38 – Kevin Anderson’s reversal about Burns’ readiness for parole
18:55 – Erin’s emotional moment with Harriet before latest hearing
20:43 – Ongoing concerns about Burns’ behavior in prison
21:42 – Family’s sense of betrayal
23:57 – Erin on focusing on the heroes, not the horror

Takeaway

This episode highlights not only the enduring pain of violent crime but also the rippling, transformative strength of survivors. The Salerno family’s commitment to justice and reform—despite repeated heartbreak—has led to meaningful changes in victims’ rights. Erin Moriarty and Anne-Marie Green navigate the legal, emotional, and human elements with empathy, emphasizing the vital importance of persistence and advocacy within an imperfect parole system.

For listeners:
If you want to go further into the details, listen to the main 48 Hours episode on Katina Rose Salerno, and follow the Post Mortem series each week for behind-the-scenes context and deeper analysis.

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Transcript50 lines

[00:00]
A
True crime is full of unanswered questions. But earning your degree doesn't have to be a mystery. That's where Southern New Hampshire University comes in. SNHU offers more than 200 online degree programs with flexibility that puts you in the driver's seat and trusted support to keep you on track even when life takes an unexpected turn. Find the answers you're searching for at SNHU.edu 48 hours the Hulu original series
[00:30]
B
Furious is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. From Liz Merriweather, the Emmy nominated executive producer of Dying for Sex and the Dropout comes a gripping psychological thriller. Starring Emmy Rosem as Alice Black, Furious follows a rookie FBI agent on the hunt for Catherine, played by Lola Pettigrew, a mysterious, calculating female serial killer. While Alice upholds justice, Catherine kills for it, terrorizing the rich and powerful men of New York in her pursuit of vengeance. As their twisted game of cat and mouse unfolds, the lines between good and evil begin to blur. With shocking crimes, tangled relationships, and secrets that change everything, Alice discovers there's a thin line between hunter and prey. Watch the Hulu original series Furious now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host Ann Marie Green. And today we are speaking with 48 Hours correspondent Erin Moriarty about the case of Katina Rose Salerno. In 1979, Katina was shot on campus at the University of the Pacific in California. It was the first day of her freshman year and the assailant was her high school boyfriend, Stephen Burns. Katina was just 18 years old at the time. Burns was convicted of second degree murder in 1980 and he's been in prison for four decades. Katina's family wants to keep it that way. They have attended every single parole board hearing, 13 in total, to advocate against his release. So Aaron is joining us now. Erin, thank you so much.
[02:27]
A
Well, I'm very happy to be here. Thank you, Amari. Because this case, as you're gonna hear, was eye opening on so many different levels. I've seen it all, but I hadn't seen this. And so I wanna talk about it.
[02:40]
B
Yeah, we don't talk often about this sort of component of the criminal justice system, the parole system. So I'm looking forward to digging into it. I do wanna remind everyone that if you haven't already listened to this episode of 48 Hours, find it in your podcast stream just above this one. Go ahead, go listen and then come on back. Katina Salerno and Steven Burns. They were high school sweethearts. They lived across the street from each other. But when Katina tried to break up with him, Burns threatened to kill her. She left and she went to college. And she was absolutely shocked when he turned up at the same college as her. They had discussed this before and he was supposed to be going to another college. They go off to their separate dorms to settle in, but he asks to speak with her and she agrees to do so. She tells her roommate, I'll be back. She never comes back. So what I found, just as a journalist, very, very impressive is the sheer number of people you all were able to track down from decades ago. We're talking about Katina's roommate, the then young student who stumbled upon Katina fighting for her life in the middle of campus. The patrol officer who stayed in her hospital room because he did not want her to be alone. Talk to me about how you all managed to get in contact with all of these people and convince them to participate.
[04:15]
A
It wasn't me. I'm as impressed as you are. We have these amazing producers, people who are willing to dig and as you point out, they had to go back 45 years and they managed to find so many people from that time. And what that allowed us to do with this story was bring the past alive in a way that is remarkable but also heartbreaking. And as you mentioned, Randy Haight, who was the patrol officer Young back then, 45 years ago. And it's so moving to hear, you know, when he gets to the hospital, he's wondering why no one in the family is there. But that's because they're in San Francisco at the college and her parents can't get there yet. And so he doesn't leave her. He and another officer stay there until she dies and until the coroner gets there. And it's so moving. He's still friends with the family and even went to the very last parole hearing.
[05:17]
B
Wow.
[05:18]
A
And then to be able to talk to these now grown up roommates of both Katina and Stephen Burns. And I think what really hit me was that event so struck Stephen Burns roommate Les, who really only knew him for a day, realized this was the first day of college, really. And he comes back with two really interesting stories is one, of course, is that Stephen had already come into that room and set up a shrine to Katina. And so I had asked him and I said, well, did he happen to mention that she had broken up with him? And he goes, no. He said, I saw more pictures than I'd ever seen. And also I was struck by the fact that that Les had told us that he had been watching Monday Night Football when Stephen came back. But Stephen told the police he had been there all night. So that gives you a real sense right away from the beginning who Stephen Burns was.
[06:20]
B
Absolutely. The other thing that kind of was really brought home to me by seeing all these people is the amount of time that has passed and, like, who Katina could have been, you know? Cause, like, here they are, they're all grown up. They've lived whole lives, whole careers. Like, wow, who would she have been if she had been allowed to sort of live these next four decades, you know?
[06:43]
A
Right. But Anne Marie, there is something really special. Even though she never got a chance to live her life, she lives on in. In these people's lives. What was so interesting to me is they hadn't forgotten her. That one act by Stephen Burns wasn't just. Didn't mean just the end of her life or affect her family. It affected so many people's lives. And Les was talking as if it had happened yesterday. And Randy Haight, the officer who sat there is still. You could see him thinking back to that night. So she never got a chance to live her life, but she certainly made an impact.
[07:25]
B
Indeed. So this is not the first time that 48 hours has actually covered this case. And I love it when we can kind of go into the archives. But the first report on the case was done in 1990 by correspondent Bernard Goldberg.
[07:38]
A
Yes, it was. Bernard Goldberg was the very first correspondent with 48 Hours. And I've been around long enough to remember Bernard Goldberg and I actually joined as a full time correspondent three years later. But he was the very first and really was a terrific correspondent at the time. And that was a time when 48 hours, where we got the name was we would spend 48 hours or more on a story. And so you really see it, even when you see Bernard talking to the family during our hour of how much time he was spending with them, because he was spending a lot of time with them on the fly as they were going to the very first parole hearing.
[08:25]
B
Yeah. I mean, he's sort of talking very comfortably.
[08:29]
A
Yeah. We would go everywhere with people. We would joke that they would be so tired of us. And I could tell when someone I was interviewing would say, yes, Aaron, because I've been there for 48 hours. Wow. So Bernard Goldberg spent a lot of time with his family to see what would happen at that very first parole hearing.
[08:52]
B
So then why did 48 hours decide to update viewers on this case? Was it because there was another parole hearing coming up? I mean, who, I guess who would have thought that there would have been so many parole hearings between then and now?
[09:06]
A
Emory, we stay on stories for a long time. And yes, it was because there was the 13th parole hearing. And I have to tell you, remember I said this was eye opening in my mind he was finally going to get out. I mean, I didn't realize all the elements that really go in to determine whether someone should get parole or not.
[09:30]
B
And I thought it was really good that you explored that idea, you know, asking, listen, like, what is justice? What is the system for? Are you sure that you're in the pursuit of justice or is this just like a personal thing? Because, you know, it's hard to get over someone taking someone you loved. I thought you, the way you explored it was just. Was delicate but direct.
[09:55]
A
Well, and the California law does allow for parole when somebody is judged to be suitable for parole. So you had to wonder what was the motive behind the family keeping him in? And so I did think we had to raise it. But they said he stalked her and he would never admit at these parole hearings that he had stalked her. And so their concern was that if he was ever out, he could still hurt somebody by stalking or controlling behavior, even if he didn't kill someone. I didn't understand that until I worked on this story.
[10:32]
B
We're gonna dig in a little bit more to that. But I just wanna ask you something about the court case, which was really surprising to me. I know it was back in 1980, but Katina's two sisters, Regina and Nina, they testified in Burns trial, but Nina was just 14 years old and she had to testify without her parents in the courtroom. They were not allowed why she was a minor.
[10:56]
A
Well, it's really interesting. The Salerno said that when they first went to this trial, they thought that there was more attention and more concern for the defendant's rights than victims rights. Harriet and Michael were not allowed into the trial because they were on the witness list. And back then that was the thought that if you're going to testify to trial, you can't be at the trial because it could affect your own testimony. Nina, who was only 14, had to testify against Stephen Burns, the young man who had been her friend. She saw him as a brother. No one else was allowed to go in with her. Her parents weren't in the court, and so they did not want to have other victims go through what they did. So Harriet made it her life's work to help other victims. And so now because of Harriet's group, now a young person who has to testify goes in with a support person. So they've made a difference for other victims,
[12:08]
B
Summer adds up fast. A trip here, a dinner there, a couple of outdoor concerts. With all the extra expenses this season brings, it's easy to wonder if you're getting the most out of your money. That's why you need to check out Chime. They are completely changing the game with rewarding fee free banking, meaning no monthly fees, no minimum balance requirements, and absolutely no overdraft fees. My younger self definitely could have benefited from that. It gets better too. You can get 5% cash back on your Chime card in a category of your choice. I'm talking everyday purchases like gas or groceries, all while building your credit through everyday spending with no credit check required. Plus, your savings grow faster with an interest rate that's nine times the national average. Join the millions who are already banking fee free with America's number one choice for banking. Head to chime.com 48hours that's chime.com 48hours. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com disclosures for details. Summer is flying by, and if your calendar looks anything like mine, it's packed with plans to squeeze in before the season ends. But more plans mean you need more energy, not more complicated steps in your morning routine. Groons can help make your morning a little simpler. It's a convenient, comprehensive formula in one delicious daily pack of gummy bears. It isn't a multivitamin, a greens gummy or a prebiotic. It's all those things and then some. It's a fraction of the price. You get over 20 bioavailable vitamins and minerals, and the ingredients are backed by over 35,000 research publications. Instead of choking down earthy powders or swallowing a handful of oversized pills, you just open one daily pack of Groons. Plus, they taste great, so you actually remember to take them every single day. Even better, each pack delivers six full grams of prebiotic fiber, which is three times the fiber of standard greens powders and equivalent to over 2 cups of broccoli. Save up to 52% off with code hours at Gruins Coffee. That's code hours at Gruns Co. Welcome back in 1980, Stephen Burns was found guilty of second degree murder. And he was sentenced to 17 years to life with the possibility of parole. The Solar nose have attended 13 parole hearings for Burns since that time.
[14:46]
A
Aaron?
[14:46]
B
I don't think I knew exactly how the parole system works, but 13 sounds like a lot. Why was he up for parole so many times?
[14:54]
A
Well, every state is different, but what happens is at a parole hearing, the commissioners don't just decide whether you are suitable or unsuitable for parole. They also decide how much time they're going to give you to clean up your act. And so it could be two years, it could be five years. And that's what happened. And so the Salernos, I mean, they didn't have to come back each time, but they did come back every single time.
[15:24]
B
So this is really interesting because you interviewed Kevin Anderson, who was once a pediatrician and formerly incarcerated with Burns. He now counsels or he's a counselor, and he worked with Burns in mock hearing sessions to prep him for his last parole hearing. Very interesting. Kevin told you that he felt that Burns did deserve to be released. How did you connect to Kevin and how does he feel now?
[15:52]
A
So, of course, we asked Stephen Burns to speak with us, and I was hopeful he might, but he did not. What he did instead was suggest that we talk to Kevin Anderson. And Kevin Anderson did give us a lot of insight into Stephen Burns. And when I first met him, which was right before the 13th parole hearing, he said that he had worked with him while he was still in prison. He had gotten out on parole and thought that Stephen Burns had finally come to accept the behaviors that had led to the shooting. He even described what Stephen had told him about how he had looked at Katina and seen the fear in her eyes. And another big question in this, which is almost as troubling, is the fact that he shot his girlfriend. She didn't die immediately. He didn't call 911. So it wasn't just that he shot her. He let her die. He goes back to his dorm and starts watching Monday Night Football and never says a word. When I talked to Les, Les said he didn't even look nervous. So Kevin Anderson said to us, this time he actually admitted what a coward he had been. So Kevin thought, this is what he's gonna tell the parole board this 13th parole board, and that he's finally going to admit to the behaviors that led to him thinking it was okay to kill his girlfriend if she didn't wanna be with him anymore.
[17:30]
B
But you didn't.
[17:31]
A
No, he did not.
[17:33]
B
So how does Kevin feel? About him.
[17:34]
A
Now, I've got to give a lot of credit to Kevin Anderson. I was very impressed with him, because when he read the transcript from that 13th parole hearing, he was shocked. And so he wrote Liza Finley, who was the producer of this show, and God bless him, he said, oh, my gosh, I was wrong. This guy is not ready for parole. Can you believe this? That Kevin Anderson said? And so I had to be back in San Francisco anyway, which is where Kevin Anderson is. And I went back to have him explain. And he's the one who said to me, you know, he might never shoot someone again, but he has not come to terms with his controlling behavior. And he could still hurt somebody without killing them. He could still cause damage. Mm.
[18:31]
B
I wanna talk a little bit about filming the day of that most recent parole hearing. This is in 2025. There's this really sort of tender moment with you, Erin, that you're driving in the backseat, you're with Harriet, who's Katina's mom, and you sort of reach out to touch her hand. Can you tell me about, you know, what was happening in that moment?
[18:55]
A
Well, we all know, Emery, that we're not ever become part of a story. And I try really hard not to, but I've worked at 48 hours for such a long time, and you spend so much time with people. It wasn't that I just reached out to touch her. She said to me that she was shaking. She's a 92 year old woman who was going to her 13th parole hearing, was very worried that the man who killed her daughter could get out and hurt someone else. And I just put my hand on hers and she was shaking and. And that it was just the right thing to do at that moment.
[19:33]
B
But it really lets you know that it never gets easier. You would think by 13, you would, I don't know, know exactly what to expect, know exactly what you want the board members to hear. But it's still like this emotional upheaval to yet to go there again.
[19:53]
A
Yes. This was, she said, as tough almost as the first one.
[19:58]
B
Yeah. Wow. Wow. In fact, you sat with Harriet and the family in the conference room and watched the parole hearing. 48 hours couldn't bring cameras in there, so it was just kind of you in there with the family. But tell me what that was like.
[20:13]
A
Well, I felt very blessed to be able to sit in there because we were not allowed to record any of it, but they did. Commissioners allowed me to sit in. And so, of course, I was dying of curiosity to get a sense of who Stephen Burns was. You know, there were other people that he had encountered during prison. According to a complaint brought up at previous parole hearings, a couple of instructors said that he made them uncomfortable.
[20:42]
B
Were they. Were they women? The instructors?
[20:43]
A
Women. Women, yes. Both instructors. Sorry. Both instructors were women. One when she wouldn't allow him into a class that he wanted to get into, and another when he did not think he got the grade he deserved. And it wasn't so much that he said something to them that wasn't the problem, but that the way he said it and the way he felt entitled. And I think you could hear it from the commissioner that the commissioners believe the same thing, that he just. He could not hear himself. He could not see his own behavior as troubling as it was. And so they found him unsuitable. It just. He has not acknowledged, accepted what he did back then. That's what the family is concerned about.
[21:35]
B
Yeah. You know, just as an aside, this is a family who opened their doors and their heart to a young man and like, to that level of betrayal to welcome him into your home. Cause Katina's father sort of took him a little bit under his wing, right?
[21:50]
A
Oh, my gosh, yes. And Nina. Nina saw him as, you know, the sports, the athlete. She was an athlete, and so he was like a brother, and she trusted him. And the girls felt so betrayed by the guy across the street that took away their big sister and changed their lives forever.
[22:16]
B
Right.
[22:17]
A
It was a betrayal to every person in that family.
[22:21]
B
And you had mentioned a little bit earlier that, like, that it kind of changed the trajectory of their lives in certain ways.
[22:28]
A
Again, that was eye opening to me, too, just how much this one act affected this family forever. Harriet with her victims group, where she helped change the law and still goes to work every day at age 92. And then you have Nina, who had to testify by herself and that, because of that awful experience, became a prosecutor focusing on victims of abuse so that other people don't have to go through that. And then Regina, who, remembering that her sister died in a hospital, became a nurse. So it was an awful thing that this family went through. But every member of that family made their tragedy better for other people.
[23:21]
B
Absolutely. You know, Erin, like, every once in a while people will ask me, isn't it sort of depressing to work on these sort of stories? And I always say no, because for every story, there's heroes. And here you have an entire family that are heroic in their efforts to make sure that no one else becomes a victim the way that their loved one became, you know, Annemarie, I'm just
[23:50]
A
like you people say, how can you deal with this after all these years? Erin and I go because I don't think about the horror. I think about the heroes.
[24:00]
B
I love that. I absolutely love that. Erin Another great hour. It was really an interesting way to sort of delve into the story. We don't talk enough about the parole system, what's great about it, but also what's really challenging about it, especially for the families of the victims. So thank you so much.
[24:18]
A
Thank you, Emery. I'll be back, as you know.
[24:21]
B
I know you will. And if you like this series postmortem, please rate and review 48 hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad free with a 48 hours plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening. I've realized lately that the products I use every single morning genuinely affect how I feel for the rest of the day. If something feels heavy, greasy, overly makeupy or complicated, I just stop reaching for it. That's why I've been loving Primally Pure's new Sun Serum Tinted SPF. It gives mineral SPF F30 protection and enough coverage to make my skin look even and healthy. But it still looks like my skin. It has this really fresh, lived in glow. And their Lip and Cheek tint has become one of those products I keep throwing on throughout the day because it makes me look instantly more awake and put together in like 10 seconds. The whole vibe just feels very effortless. Skin first Clean Girl Beauty products that enhance your skin. If you've been wanting your routine to feel lighter, simpler and more natural this summer, definitely check out Primally Pure's Sun Serum and Lip and Cheek Tints. Paw Patrol is coming to theaters and it's bigger than ever. Welcome to Dino Island. Run to get tickets.
[25:52]
A
I'm a bulldog. This is as fast as I can go.
[25:55]
B
Paw Patrol the Dino Movie Only in theaters August 14th. Rated PG.