The Puppet Master

Summary

48 Hours – "The Puppet Master" (December 11, 2025)

Podcast Summary

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Episode Overview

This “48 Hours” episode, “The Puppet Master," investigates the harrowing case of Heather Grossman and the murder-for-hire plot that left her paralyzed. Through detailed interviews, courtroom testimony, and firsthand accounts, the episode explores the volatile relationships, custody battles, and ultimately the conspiracy orchestrated by her ex-husband, Ron Samuels. The episode expertly unpacks a web of obsession, revenge, and manipulation that spanned years, culminating in a dramatic trial and lasting consequences for all involved.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Crime: Attempted Murder on a Florida Highway

• Incident Recalled: On October 14, 1997, Heather and her husband, John Grossman, were shot while in their car. Heather was left a quadriplegic.
  • “I remember my body shaking.” – Heather Grossman [03:04]
  • “I stuck the weapon out the window and... I shot into the back window.” – Roger Runyon (shooter) [02:51–02:56]
• Perpetrators' Testimony: Roger Runyon admitted to shooting, encouraged by "Slim" Stafford, under the direction of an unseen “mastermind.”

2. Background: Love, Wealth, and Turmoil

• Heather and Ron’s Marriage:
  • Heather, a flight attendant, met millionaire car dealer Ron Samuels. Their whirlwind romance led to a marriage, three children, and an extravagant lifestyle.
  • “We went everywhere in the world on private jets, too.” – Ron Samuels [07:11]
• Deterioration and Abuse:
  • The relationship became abusive; Heather recounts fear and intimidation:
  • “He became controlling...scary and intimidating.” – Heather [08:12]
  • “He held a gun to my head.” – Heather [08:33]
  • Samuels denies the most serious allegations: “Never.” [08:41]

3. Aftermath: Divorce and Bitter Custody Battle

• Escalating Threats:
  • Following divorce, Ron sought full custody, refusing to pay court-ordered support.
  • Heather describes living in fear:
  • “When I left him and divorced him, he said...you will pay.” – Heather [08:53]
  • Samuels denies direct threats: “Not that I recall ever saying that.” [09:04]

4. A New Life, Still in the Shadow of Threats

• Heather’s New Relationship:
  • Heather married Jon Grossman, entering what she described as an initially idyllic marriage, overshadowed by Ron’s animosity.
  • “There was no doubt...I knew Ron Samuels was responsible.” – Heather [13:50]

5. Investigation: Who Was the Puppet Master?

• Evidence Trails:
  • Car traced to Hugh Estes, a friend drawn into Samuels’ drug-fueled circle.
  • Multiple co-conspirators identified: Estes (the link), Eddie “Slim” Stafford (driver), Roger Runyon (shooter), Jeff Pollack (witness to planning).
  • Immense legal maneuvering; prosecution offers full immunity to all but Samuels for testimony.
    • “The puppet master is responsible for the actions of the puppets.” – Asst. State Attorney Al Johnson [04:02]

6. Flight and Capture: Samuels’ Fugitive Years

• Ron Flees:
  • Days before arrest, Samuels flees to Monterrey, Mexico, with the intention of bringing his children.
  • Arrested with six kilograms of cocaine (which he disputes) and serves five years in Mexican prison.
  • Even in prison, remarries to a supporter who believes in his innocence.

7. Courtroom Drama: Testimony and Confrontation

• Complex Testimony:
  • Co-conspirators testify that Samuels orchestrated the hit:
    • “He said he wanted his wife whacked.” – Hugh Estes [28:54]
    • “I want her taken care of.” – Jeff Pollack recounting Samuels’ words [28:25]
  • Samuels’ ex-wife Debbie Love describes his violent, controlling, and hateful attitude, sharing his words:
    • “That bitch should be dead.” – Repeated by Debbie [30:20]
• Ron’s Defense and Outbursts:
  • Samuels claims innocence, instead blaming others and attacking witnesses’ credibility.
  • Explosive courtroom confrontation:
    • “I’ll meet you in hell, you son of a... I’ll find you one way or the other. I’m sorry.” – Samuels, to Runyon, courtroom outburst [27:32]

8. Family Torn Apart: Children’s Testimonies

• Manipulation Revealed:
  • Their son, Ronnie, testifies he was coerced to make false allegations:
    • “No ma’am, it was a lie. A lie that his father...convinced him to tell.” [34:04]
    • “He wanted...to take me away from my mom and John.” [34:19]

9. Heather’s Perspective: Survival and Forgiveness

• Confronting Her Accused:
  • “I have to understand somehow how the individual that I loved so much could have done this to me.” – Heather [26:04]
• Life after the Shooting:
  • Life as a quadriplegic—learning to eat, speak, and rebuild.
  • “I had to learn how to eat, how to swallow, how to sit up, how to speak on a ventilator...everyday life this way.” – Heather [44:54]
  • Finds peace:
    • “It might be hard for some people to believe, but...I’m sitting in a very happy place.” [45:20]

10. Verdict and Aftermath

• Conviction:

  • Jury finds Ron Samuels guilty on all counts.
    • “We find the defendant guilty of attempted first degree murder with a firearm...” [41:07]
  • Samuels receives life plus 120 years.
  • “I know that he is out of our lives forever. He will never bother us. And I know that I’m safe and my children are safe.” – Heather [42:01]

• Samuels’ Regret (or Lack Thereof):

  • “My greatest regret is that both of us should have tried harder for the sake of the three children.” – Ron Samuels [43:05]
  • Still denies involvement:
    • “The truth is I would never, ever harm one hair on Heather’s head.” [43:33]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 02:56 | “I stuck...the weapon out the window and...I shot into the back window.” | Roger Runyon | | 08:33 | "When I wanted to leave him, he held a gun to my head." | Heather Grossman | | 13:50 | "There was no doubt in the moment I was shot. I knew Ron Samuels was responsible." | Heather Grossman | | 27:32 | “I’ll meet you in hell, you son of a...I’ll find you one way or the other. I’m sorry.” | Ron Samuels (courtroom outburst) | | 30:20 | "That bitch should be dead. Wish she was dead. She needs to be dead. Somebody needs to kill the bitch." | Testified by Debbie Love about Ron Samuels | | 34:04 | “No ma’am, it was a lie. A lie that his father Ronnie says convinced him to tell.” | Ronnie (Ron and Heather’s son) | | 41:07 | “We find the defendant guilty of attempted first degree murder with a firearm as charged in the indictment.” | Jury/Narrator | | 44:54 | “I had to learn how to eat...sit up...speak on a ventilator.” | Heather Grossman |

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:19–05:02] – Crime reenactment and initial aftermath
• [06:05–10:18] – Heather and Ron’s marriage, divorce, custody battle escalation
• [12:43–14:09] – Heather and Jon Grossman’s marriage, ongoing threats from Ron
• [15:14–17:13] – Police investigation; identifying and connecting conspirators
• [20:48–23:08] – Ron Samuels’ flight, arrest in Mexico, and prison years
• [27:10–30:26] – Courtroom testimony from co-conspirators and ex-wife Debbie Love
• [34:04–35:11] – Ronnie Grossman recants childhood abuse allegations, exposes father’s manipulation
• [41:07–42:01] – Verdict announcement and sentencing

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Tone and Impact

The episode expertly captures the raw pain, confusion, and determination of those swept up in the tragedy, blending legal drama, personal testimony, and forensic detail. The tone is unflinching but empathetic, letting Heather’s resilience shine through even as it exposes the depths of bitterness and obsession that fueled the crime.

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Conclusion

“The Puppet Master” is an unforgettable portrait of a meticulously orchestrated crime driven by control and vengeance. The episode stands as a testament not only to in-depth investigative journalism but also to the enduring human capacity for survival, forgiveness, and ultimately, justice.

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Heather Grossman]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Heather Grossman]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Heather Grossman]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Ron Samuels]

91 1.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Do you have an emergency?

[Ron Samuels]

Yes, we do. We have a shooting in a car in north bedroom Yamada. We have people with injuries. Oh, my God. She's.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Please tell them we're on the way.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

They're on the.

[Ron Samuels]

I don't think she's bleeding.

[Heather Grossman]

Even though the shooting happened nine years ago, it seems like it happened yesterday.

[Ron Samuels]

He said, do you want to make some good money? Around 20,000. Make it look like a robbery. I thought we could get away with it.

[Heather Grossman]

On that day, the weather was beautiful and warm.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Heather and John Grossman were having a normal day.

[Heather Grossman]

We were driving a black Lincoln Continental. My husband John was driving and I was in the passenger front seat. And John and I were on our way to lunch.

[Ron Samuels]

Slum's driving.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

He's telling Runyon what to do. I'm in the backseat and Runyon's sitting in the backseat with a rifle.

[Heather Grossman]

I remember going down Federal highway and.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

They were about to stop at one place and then they decided on another place.

[Heather Grossman]

They made a U turn, so John and I turned around.

[Ron Samuels]

We followed them, come up to a red light.

[Heather Grossman]

I remember coming up to a stoplight.

[Ron Samuels]

They're in one lane. We're in the lane right next to them on the left.

[Heather Grossman]

I reached down to get something out of my briefcase.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Roger Runyon took out a long rifle.

[Ron Samuels]

Slim's like, do it, do it, do it, do it.

[Heather Grossman]

And I came up and.

I stuck.

[Ron Samuels]

The weapon out the window and.

And I shot into the back window.

[Heather Grossman]

I felt the bullet penetrate.

[Ron Samuels]

She disappears.

[Heather Grossman]

I remember my body shaking.

[Ron Samuels]

Then Slim pulled up next to the.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Car, fired another shot and winged John Grossman in the cheek.

[Ron Samuels]

Where is she shot? She shot, I think in the head or face and she's face down. I want to touch her. She's all slumped over.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

My name is Alan Johnson. I'm chief assistant state attorney at the Palm Beach County State Attorney's Office. Roger Runyon was the shooter.

[Ron Samuels]

I attempted to kill people for money.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Roger Runyon was one of the puppets.

[Ron Samuels]

I'll go to hell.

[Heather Grossman]

Roger Runyon is the man that shot me.

[Ron Samuels]

I ruined her life. I ruined her kid's life.

[Heather Grossman]

I don't hold hatred towards him.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Roger Runyon is not on trial. We want the mastermind.

[Heather Grossman]

The man that paid him to shoot.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

The mastermind of the crime.

[Heather Grossman]

He finally got me. He put me in my wheelchair.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

The puppet master is responsible for the actions of the puppets.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The Puppet Master. Tonight's 48 Hours Mystery.

[Ron Samuels]

Yamato and Federal Southeast Corner. Reference to shooting two victims.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

First we heard a real loud bang. About 10 seconds after that we heard another loud bang.

[Ron Samuels]

I've got one person shot in a black Lincoln, also a white male sitting on the floor of the vehicle holding his face.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The first report on that October day in 1997 was that a woman had been killed in a drive by shooting.

[Heather Grossman]

Life's in there, she said.

Tears falling down the sides of my cheek.

I'm feeling so scared.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The bullet that struck then 31 year old Heather Grossman ripped a fist sized hole in her neck, severing her spinal cord.

[Ron Samuels]

Her husband's outside of the car. He's shot in the face, bleeding everywhere.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The bullet that struck her husband, John Grossman, then 47, only grazed him. But Heather's life was forever changed.

[Heather Grossman]

They explained what had happened and that I was going to be paralyzed from the neck down and I was going to be a quadriplegic.

[Ron Samuels]

It pains me to see her crippled and helpless in that chair.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Ron Samuels rushed to the scene. He was Heather's first husband and father of their three children.

[Ron Samuels]

I was under the impression that these people were shot and killed. Police were there. I said that's my ex wife. I think I want to know. Were there three children in the car? It was that time of the day when my three kids could have been with them.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The welfare of the children had always been a contentious issue in a messy custody battle. A far cry from the happier times the couple enjoyed when they met a decade earlier.

Ron met Heather when she was working as a flight attendant.

[Ron Samuels]

She was prettier than any movie star in Hollywood.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Samuels, a 40 year old entrepreneur, fell hard for the Former high school cheerleader from Minnesota.

[Ron Samuels]

I was the only first class passenger on the way back from Oregon.

[Heather Grossman]

I just talked to him a little bit. He was just a passenger.

[Ron Samuels]

And I said to her, you either come home with me now or I'll see you in the movies.

[Heather Grossman]

He was very persistent.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Soon after that flight, they moved in together. What were your impressions of him?

[Heather Grossman]

He could charm people.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

They lived in Pensacola, Florida, where Samuels owned a successful car dealership. At the height, what was your net worth?

[Ron Samuels]

In excess of $30 million.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

$30 million?

[Ron Samuels]

That's right.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Was he very generous?

[Heather Grossman]

Yes, he was very generous.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

You spoiled your wife.

[Ron Samuels]

I enjoyed it.

[Heather Grossman]

We took very lavish trips.

[Ron Samuels]

We went everywhere in the world on private jets, too.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

After living together for several years, In December of 1988, Heather and Ron were married. Their son Ronnie was born shortly afterwards. Two years later, they had twins, Lauren and Joe.

[Ron Samuels]

Ronnie and his dad are going to sing the Miami Dolphin fight song. Miami Dolphins.

What do you think of that? I had three beautiful children. Look at that.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

She was an excellent mother.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

She was always with the children.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Ben and Helen Bentfeld were good friends.

[Narrator/Announcer]

I thought they were getting along beautifully, didn't you?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

I thought everything was going along great.

But if it all seemed perfect. Behind the scenes, the marriage was beginning to crumble.

[Ron Samuels]

I was 18 or 18 and a half years older than Heather was.

[Heather Grossman]

He became controlling and rude and scary and intimidating.

[Ron Samuels]

I expected her to understand that to live the lifestyle that she wanted, that somebody had to pay the bill.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Did your arguments turn violent?

[Heather Grossman]

Yes, they became violent.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

How?

[Heather Grossman]

When I wanted to leave him, he held a gun to my head.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Did you ever put a gun to her head?

[Ron Samuels]

Never.

[Heather Grossman]

I was terrified of him and I said, I'm out of here.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Heather fled with the children to her parents home in Minnesota and filed for divorce.

[Heather Grossman]

When I left him and divorced him, he said, you know, you will pay.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Did you say to Heather, if you leave me, you're going to pay?

[Ron Samuels]

Not that I recall ever saying that.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Heather moved on and began dating Jon Grossman, the son of a business tycoon who was part owner of the Minnesota Vikings football team.

[Heather Grossman]

I had a wonderful relationship with Jon Grossman, and we were in love, and everything was really pretty much perfect.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

You weren't jealous of him?

[Ron Samuels]

No, I wasn't jealous of Jon Grossman.

[Heather Grossman]

We were happy. We were starting out our lives despite all the torture in the background of Ron Samuels.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Samuels hired a succession of lawyers to fight Heather over custody of the children and child support payments. The court ordered you to pay $3,000 a month in child support, Is that right? You refused to pay. Altogether, you spent $650,000, 665,000 in legal fees to fight this.

[Ron Samuels]

That's correct.

[Heather Grossman]

He didn't want shared custody. He wanted custody of the children full time, all the time, without me having any contact with them.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Samuels also moved on, marrying Debbie Love, a legal secretary in the firm that represented him in his divorce. Debbie and Samuels, who always struggled with his weight, saw his children often during scheduled visitations. It was during one of those visits Samuels says his children told him that Jon Grossman was mistreating them.

[Ron Samuels]

You're a cowardly, motherless son of a bitch.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Samuels confronted Grossman on the phone.

[Ron Samuels]

That's not very nice. No. You're the father. No, I wouldn't be.

[Narrator/Announcer]

The children.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

No, I count that. What? You.

[Ron Samuels]

Why did you put your hands on the children? You know, Darren. Well, you never put my hands on all three of them here told me differently.

[Heather Grossman]

We're getting calls at night and we're getting death threats.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

But was Samuels capable of carrying out those threats?

[Ron Samuels]

If you want to know, would I have killed John Grossman? Had I had the opportunity, I definitely would have.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

And what about Heather?

[Ron Samuels]

I would never do that to the lady that I watch give birth to my three children. There's no reason in the world for that.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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Marshall's buyers are hustling hard to get amazing new gifts into stores right up to the last minute. Like a designer perfume for that friend who never RSVP'd wish. List topping toys for her kids who came too.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Mm.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Belgian chocolates for the neighbor. A cozy scarf for your boss, and a wool jacket for your husband that you definitely did not almost forget. Marshalls.

[Heather Grossman]

We get the deals, you get the good stuff.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Even at the last minute.

[Ron Samuels]

Phew.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Find a Marshall's near you.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

After a five year relationship, Heather married John Grossman in June of 1997 and moved back to Florida. This was a happy time for you?

[Heather Grossman]

Yes, a very happy time.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

But their happiness was overshadowed by their fear of Heather's first husband.

Ron Samuels, who had accused Grossman of abusing his children. Were you hurt when Heather married Jon Grossman?

[Ron Samuels]

Not particularly.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

What were your impressions of him?

[Ron Samuels]

I don't think I could say that on camera.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Go ahead, try.

[Ron Samuels]

He was a rotten, despicable scumbag.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Because of Samuel's unpredictable and volatile behavior, Heather and John chose to keep their wedding location a secret.

[Heather Grossman]

That's how afraid I was of him.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Just four months later, while driving to a lunch date, Heather and John were gunned down.

[Heather Grossman]

There was no doubt in the moment I was shot. I knew Ron Samuels was responsible.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

How are you so confident? How are you so sure?

[Heather Grossman]

Because when I left him, he said that he would destroy me, that he would kill me.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Samuels vehemently denies having anything to do with the shooting.

[Ron Samuels]

The one question I have is, if I didn't do it, who did and why? I have that question too.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

And he has a theory.

[Ron Samuels]

I think John Grossman had a motive to want to get rid of Heather for many, many reasons. But the biggest one is because I was a pain in his ass and I had just enough money to be that pain.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

So you're suggesting that Jon Grossman staged this shooting. He was injured though, in the shooting he was shot. Doesn't make any sense to me.

[Ron Samuels]

I don't think that was intentional.

He shot somebody in a car twice with a rifle out the window.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

But the evidence the investigators were gathering told a very different story. It began with a great lead.

A detailed description of the hitman's car.

[Narrator/Announcer]

It's a teal colored Thunderbird, a newer.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Model, including the license plate VIX30I. The car was registered to an insurance salesman named Hugh Estes.

At the time, Estes was a self admitted crack addict.

[Ron Samuels]

I had a lot of money. I got hooked into cocaine and other drugs. And boy, it, it'll empty your wallet fast.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Investigators put the squeeze on Estes, who told them all about the plan. He coughed up the names of the two men in the T bird. A crack dealer and pimp named Eddie Slim Stafford was the driver. Another petty criminal, Roger Runyon, was the shooter. Still another man, Jeff Pollack, was not involved in drugs, but was at meetings where Samuels allegedly discussed the murder plans.

[Ron Samuels]

He said, I want her dead.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The motive, money.

[Ron Samuels]

It was, you know, hey, here's 10 grand. Do something for me? Yeah, sure. Thanks a lot, sucker. You know, take the money and run.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

But who was paying?

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Ron Samuels gave the instructions to Hugh Estes and to Jeff Pollack.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Assistant state attorney Al Johnson. What were the instructions?

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Get me somebody to kill my ex wife.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Ron, did you hire these men to kill your ex wife?

[Ron Samuels]

Troy? I'm from Brooklyn, New York. If I wanted to pay somebody to do this, I'd have gone to New York and the professionals would have come there. And no, I didn't want to do that. And no, I did not pay anybody. Body.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Ronald Samuels was the puppet master.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

But could this bizarre conspiracy story hold up in court? Investigators had no direct evidence linking Samuels to the crime, but they believed he had a powerful motive. The costly custody fight that could see him lose his children. A fight Samuels was determined to win. Look, it's my clone.

[Ron Samuels]

Say, hi, papa. I'm the clone.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Hi, papa.

[Ron Samuels]

I'm the clone.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

What do the children mean to you?

[Ron Samuels]

I was willing to swap my life for theirs.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

And he was willing to put his children right in the middle of the fight.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Come on over here and let's just have a seat.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

To document his claims that Jon Grossman was abusing the children, he had them examined by a psychologist.

[Narrator/Announcer]

If you've done something wrong at your house, when you're at your mom, what happens?

[Heather Grossman]

I get spanked.

[Narrator/Announcer]

And who does the spanking?

[Heather Grossman]

It's usually John and grandpa and grandma.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Little Ronnie was just six years old when he accused Jon Grossman and Heather's parents of harming him.

[Ron Samuels]

I said to them, you guys understand these are very serious things you're saying. Very serious.

We promised daddy. It's the truth. We don't want to go back there.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Did you ever see Jon Grossman mistreat your children?

[Heather Grossman]

No.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Did you ever see your parents mistreat your children?

[Heather Grossman]

Oh, no, not at all.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Did you coach your children to lie about the child abuse allegations?

[Ron Samuels]

I would never do that. Never.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

In order to gain the upper hand, it's my belief that Ronald Samuels would call and make these child abuse accusations. They were investigated by the police in Minnesota. They were investigated by the police in Boca Raton. They were found to be unfounded.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The claims of child abuse were rejected by a Florida judge, and Heather was awarded permanent custody of the children.

[Heather Grossman]

Yeah, that was eight days before I was shot.

[Ron Samuels]

My wife in there, how's she doing? Is she breathing?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

While investigators were convinced Samuels was the mastermind behind the attempted murders.

They felt they just didn't have enough evidence to bring a case against him. The key was getting the alleged co conspirator to cooperate but at what cost?

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

It wasn't an easy decision for anybody, but the decision was made, and it was the right decision.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The decision was to make a controversial and highly unusual deal in exchange for truthful testimony about Samuel's lead role in the conspiracy. Complete immunity from prosecution for everyone involved. Everyone, that is, except for Ron Samuels.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

In a perfect world, all five would have done prison time for this. We live in a world of choices, and we make the best choice we can.

[Heather Grossman]

There was no question that we had to make the immunity deal. It was 100% the right thing to do.

The key person to get was Ron Samuel.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

With the deal made, the investigators were ready to make a move.

But before Ron Samuels could be arrested.

He was gone.

Five months after the shooting, and just days before he was to be arrested, Ron Samuels was on the run.

U.S. attorney's office called me and said Larry Samuels didn't show up. We think he's a fugitive now. Retired FBI agent Larry Doss tracks Samuels to Monterrey, Mexico.

A sprawling city about 200 miles south of the border. Why'd you go to Mexico?

[Ron Samuels]

The reason that I went was to eventually bring the three kids there legally or illegally. I was gonna do it.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

On the 20th of May, 1998. He's now calling from Mexico using a credit card.

[Ron Samuels]

Can you get the car and meet me somewhere with it safe?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

On the other end of the line was someone Samuels trusted, his second wife, Debbie Love.

[Ron Samuels]

Debbie was the only one knew I was in Monterey and what hotel I was at.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Little did Samuels know that Debbie was cooperating with Florida police and allow them to tap her phone.

[Ron Samuels]

Debbie, if I can get out of this, I'll straighten our lives out.

[Heather Grossman]

Not with me, you won't.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The Mexican authorities working with the FBI were following Samuels every move. And as they closed in, he became more desperate.

[Ron Samuels]

I'm begging you, please. Please.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

A short time after the surveillance started, he realizes that he's being followed.

A high speed chase ensues. The car gets wrecked.

And when they arrest him, an inventory. He has six kilograms of cocaine.

You were found with six kilos of cocaine.

[Ron Samuels]

That's what the report said.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Not true.

[Ron Samuels]

Not true.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Ron Samuels would serve five years in a Mexican prison for narcotics trafficking. And his second wife, Debbie, would divorce him. How does one man have so much bad luck?

[Ron Samuels]

Some might say I brought it on myself.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Did you?

[Ron Samuels]

I must have been a very bad judge of two women.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

But amazingly, even behind bars, Samuels found romance.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Ron, I want to tell you that.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

I love you so much. When he had a chance encounter with Elizabeth Pastrana. Locono si un dia.

[Heather Grossman]

I met him when I had a clothing business, and I took clothes to the poor at the jail.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Three years later, while Samuels was still in prison, Elizabeth became wife number three.

[Narrator/Announcer]

He said, do you want to marry me, Elizabeth? And then I said, yes, my love.

[Heather Grossman]

I want to marry you.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

To this day, even in light of the charges against him, Elizabeth remains loyal to Samuels.

[Narrator/Announcer]

I believe in him. I believe in his innocence.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

While Samuels was serving out his sentence in Mexico, Jon Grossman, Heather and her children moved to Arizona.

[Heather Grossman]

Okay, hold my legs, honey.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Not long after she was shot, Heather says John became increasingly abusive, both physically and emotionally.

[Heather Grossman]

I truly believe John can handle it. And his anger and his rage.

Just took over.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

In 2003, they divorced. Two years later, John died of a massive heart attack.

[Heather Grossman]

I forgive him, and.

I can understand it now.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

You forgive your second husband, Jon Grossman, for his abusive behavior. Do you forgive Ron Samuels?

[Heather Grossman]

I forgive Ron Samuels, but.

I am afraid of him still.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Ron Samuels was extradited from Mexico and returned to Florida to stand trial here in West Palm beach on two counts of attempted murder. The co conspirators, under the grant of immunity, are scheduled to testify about their role in the plot to kill Heather and her second husband, John Grossman.

[Narrator/Announcer]

She's in good hands.

[Ron Samuels]

Don't worry.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Heather makes the long trip across country from Arizona to Florida to testify.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

With.

[Ron Samuels]

Nonstop service to West Palm Beach, Florida.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

She needs to confront the man she believes has caused her so much pain.

[Heather Grossman]

I have to understand.

Somehow how the individual that I love so much could have done this to me.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

It's been nine years since that fateful day.

Prosecutor Al Johnson.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Heather Grossman woke up today a quadriplegic. The defendant did that to her?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

No.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

He didn't pull the trigger. He wasn't the henchman. He was too clever for that.

Mr. Samuels is saying that I did not commit the crimes that the state.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Is alleging that I am not guilty. Defense attorneys Ned Reagan and Alex Bromfield plan to attack the credibility of the co conspirators. Are all of these men liars? I would say yes. So your position is that this immunity deal gave them a license to lie? That's exactly it. Why would these guys want to harm this woman? Why would they want to execute Heather Grossman? What would be their motive?

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

I don't know what their motive was.

On October 14, 1997, did you shoot Heather and John Grossman?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Yes, I did.

[Ron Samuels]

Did.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Who was the primary target? That day she was.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Triggerman Roger Runyon's testimony makes Samuels explode.

[Ron Samuels]

I'll meet you in hell, you son of a. I'll find you one way or the other. I'm sorry.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

You will not listen to me. Close your mouth, Mr. Samuel. Stop talking.

[Ron Samuels]

That cowardly son of a bitch shot my ex wife in the back of the head. That's why I was angry in the court that day.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

After order is restored, one by one, the other alleged co conspirators take the stand to testify. Eddie Stafford, the drug dealer and pimp who was driving the car, says Samuels talked often about killing Heather.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

What kind of terms did he years.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

He want to kill that bitch.

Jeff Pollack, who worked odd jobs for Samuels, says he was at a meeting where Samuels gave the orders to kill Heather.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

When Ron mentioned he wants his ex wife taken care of, he made a motion of a gun in his hand. So he said the exact words. I want her taken care of? Yes. And then he would make a motion. What kind of motion are you like a gun.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Hugh Estes, the old friend of Samuel's, who says he arranged it all.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Did there come a time when you provided him somebody that might do this for him?

[Ron Samuels]

Yes.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Did Ronald Samuels want Heather dead?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Yes, sir. He said he wanted his wife whacked.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Are those the words he used?

[Ron Samuels]

Yes, those exact words.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The testimony seems to put all the elements of the conspiracy in place.

[Ron Samuels]

I think that you could get anybody to say anything if they think they're not going to go to jail for whatever it is they have pending.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

But there's no getting around phone records. The prosecution says link Samuels to Estes and Stafford.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

The linchpin of our case was corroboration through the phone records.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

And the phone calls ceased after the shooting.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Pretty much after our marriage.

[Heather Grossman]

Ron immediately changed.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Debbie Love, Ron, Samuel's second wife, tells the jurors she was afraid of Samuels.

[Heather Grossman]

I was fearful of Ron. He's very forceful, he's very domineering, dominating and contriving.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

And then she makes the prosecution's day.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

What terms would he use when he was describing Heather?

[Heather Grossman]

That she was a gold digger.

That she took his money.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Did the defendant ever indicate that he wished ill of heaven?

[Narrator/Announcer]

Yes, he did.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

In what manner? What words did he say?

[Heather Grossman]

That bitch should be dead.

Wish she was dead.

[Narrator/Announcer]

She needs to be dead.

[Heather Grossman]

Somebody needs to kill the bitch.

[Narrator/Announcer]

We need to get rid of her.

[Ron Samuels]

Deborah is a liar.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Everyone's telling the same story of rage and revenge and murder for hire. Everyone, that is, except Ron Samuels.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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Welcome to Radio Rental.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The scariest stories you've ever heard in your life, all told by real people. And off we go. This wasn't a human being that I saw. There's something here in this house, something not of this world.

[Narrator/Announcer]

There was a woman moving through the hall. I stepped back and I was completely alone.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Radio Rental is available now. Listen for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator/Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Rakuten. The holidays are here and that means it's the most wonderful time of the year. To save with Rakuten, use Rakuten to stack cash back at your favorite stores on top of holiday sales. That's savings on savings. With Rakuten, you can get cash back on gifts for everyone on your list, from toys for the kids to kitchen gear for the person who loves to cook to electronics for everyone. You can even save on something for yourself. Cash back is automatically added to your account as you shop and you can get paid with gift cards, PayPal or check. Or eligible American Express card members can choose to earn membership rewards points. Join for free today and get a new member bonus after minimum qualifying purchases. Just go to rakuten.com, download the app or install the browser extension. Terms and conditions apply.

[Heather Grossman]

Oh boy, I'm too nervous. Wish I would have eaten breakfast.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

So Heather, what do you want the Jory to understand?

[Heather Grossman]

I want them to understand how hard and difficult my life is every day.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Heather Grossman is about to confront the man she believes was behind the plot to kill her.

[Heather Grossman]

So Cole, I might have to look away because he still scares me. Just knowing that he's there is eerie enough.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Your son is testifying today. Are you worried for him?

[Heather Grossman]

Yes, I am.

This is going to be very hard moment in his life.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Ronnie, 17, is called to testify about the decade old allegations of child abuse against his stepfather, Jon Grossman.

[Narrator/Announcer]

The things that you told the social services or children's services persons about the abuse, was that the truth or was it a Lie?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

No, ma', am, it was a lie. A lie that his father, Ronnie, says convinced him to tell.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Did Ronald Samuels tell you the reason why he wanted you to make these allegations?

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Yes, he wanted, you know, to take me away from my mom and John.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Were you afraid not to do what he asked you to do?

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Yes.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

He was 6 foot 6. He's a very big guy.

[Narrator/Announcer]

And at times, did that frighten you?

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Yes, ma'.

[Ron Samuels]

Am.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

He's just got a very deep voice that's very intimidating. I mean, you know, scared us when we were younger.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Your own son says that you manipulated him, him into telling these lies.

[Ron Samuels]

What would you expect my child to say after 10 years of being told his dad did that to his mom and seeing his mom suffer every day of her life in that chair?

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

The state calls Heather Grossman.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

And now, finally, it's Heather's moment of truth.

[Heather Grossman]

I'm not scared of him like I was before. I was afraid to see him at first, but he doesn't look intimidating now. I somewhat feel sorry for him that he chose to do what he did, and it's really messed up his life.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

The problems you were experiencing with Mr. Samuels, did they intensify in the latter part of 1996 and into 1997?

[Heather Grossman]

Yes, they kept getting worse.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

What was Mr. Samuel's demeanor like when he would pick up or drop off the children?

[Heather Grossman]

Very loud.

Threatening, very pushy.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Did your children, either Ronnie, Joseph or Lauren, ever come complain to you about John Grossman's treatment of them?

[Heather Grossman]

No.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Then the courtroom is hushed as Heather recalls the very moment she was shot.

[Heather Grossman]

I tried to scream out for help, and help wouldn't come out.

And I don't remember anything after that.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

To this day, do you have any sensation whatsoever below the neck or the place where you were shot?

[Heather Grossman]

No, I don't.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

If the courtroom was riveted by Heather's testimony, defense calls for Ron Samuels. The atmosphere becomes electric when Ron Samuels, against the advice of his lawyers, takes the stand.

[Ron Samuels]

Raise your right hand.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Mrs. Samuels, did you have anything to do with the shooting of Mr. Grossman?

[Ron Samuels]

I did not.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Did you have anything to do with the shooting of Mrs. Grossman?

[Ron Samuels]

I did not. I wouldn't want anything like that to happen to her.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Samuels insists he had nothing to do with the murder for hire scheme. Did you go to a Denny's and meet with Hugh Estes, Jeffrey Pollack and Eddie Stafford?

[Ron Samuels]

No.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

And that the phone records don't prove anything. There's been numerous testimony with regard to telephone records.

[Ron Samuels]

Yes. Anything can be made sinister.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Mr. Samuels, this case never really was about the children. This was about winning, wasn't it?

[Ron Samuels]

That's not true.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

This was about keeping that $3,000 from that bitch head. Isn't that true?

[Ron Samuels]

No, that's not true.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Yes or no, sir? Did you.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Why would you allow the prosecutors to have an opportunity to question you?

[Ron Samuels]

Because I told the truth. And I didn't want my to believe, like he's been told for the last 10 years, that I tried to kill his mom.

That's a terrible thing to live with.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

You never wanted Heather to be a quadriplegic, did you?

[Ron Samuels]

I never wanted her to be dead either.

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

That's exactly what you wanted her to be, sir. Dead.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Heather Grossman]

I slept so good. I took all my pills. I'm good.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Ron Samuels claims he truly feels Heather's anguish, but he insists he's innocent.

[Ron Samuels]

Heather, I'm not the one responsible. You're blaming the wrong person.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

How do you think your father looked? He looked aged. Very aged. Up until the trial, Young Ronnie hadn't seen his father since the shooting more than nine years ago. You believe your father took out a contract on your mother's life? Yes, I do believe that. As bad as that sounds, is there anything that he can say to you that would change anything?

[Assistant State Attorney Al Johnson]

Oh, not at all.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

He made his mistake. That's his doing now. He chose it this way. What sentence would satisfy you? Life. He wanted to kill that bitch.

[Ron Samuels]

Find a shooter.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Or you can do it yourself. After three weeks of testimony.

[Ron Samuels]

Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

And three days of deliberation. Okay, we are ready for the jury.

[Heather Grossman]

This is so exciting.

[Ron Samuels]

Everyone please rise.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Heather Grossman's nine year wait for a verdict is about to be over.

[Narrator/Announcer]

As to count one, victim Heather Grossman, we find the defendant guilty of attempted first degree murder with a firearm as charged in the indictment.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Guilty on two counts of attempted murder and guilty on four additional charges related to the murder for hire conspiracy.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Guilty of shooting into an occupied vehicle.

[Heather Grossman]

I was like, yes, yes. You know, I had waited so long to hear those words.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

And guilty.

[Heather Grossman]

Guilty. Yes. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The sentence based on the Evans life in prison is the appropriate sentence. Life in prison for the attempted murders and an additional 120 years for the other charges.

[Heather Grossman]

I know that he is out of our lives forever. He will never bother us. And I know that I'm safe and my children are safe.

[Ron Samuels]

I'll never forget myself.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

As for the trigger man, Roger Runyon, under the immunity deal, he won't serve a day in prison, but he's still haunted by his actions right now.

[Ron Samuels]

I wish I never would have been born.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

As he begins serving out his sentence in a Florida prison, Ron Samuels, who still maintains his innocence, has grown almost philosophical about his fate. I don't understand how a man who has realized so many of his goals could end up here.

[Ron Samuels]

Stupidity.

Stupidity and naivety.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

What is your greatest regret?

[Ron Samuels]

My greatest regret is that both of us should have tried harder for the sake of the three children. And I'm hoping that one day.

They'Ll want to come see their father before I die.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Don't you think that your children.

Need to know the truth?

[Ron Samuels]

I certainly do.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

And what is the truth?

[Ron Samuels]

The truth is I would never, ever harm one hair on Heather's head.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

As part of sentencing, he was ordered to pay restitution. The court ordered Samuels to pay heather more than $300,000. You claim at one time you had close to $30 million?

[Ron Samuels]

Yes, sir.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

What is your net worth now?

[Ron Samuels]

Zero. And then some.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

But if there's really no money left for Heather, she says that perhaps Samuels has something else he could offer her of value.

[Heather Grossman]

I would have liked an apology, but I know I will never get one. Because.

I'm sure he was overjoyed that day that I was shot. Ron Samuels is exactly where he belongs. I don't have to think about him anymore.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Is there any chance for rehabilitation?

[Heather Grossman]

No.

Maybe in 20 years there will be rehabilitation for somebody in my condition.

I don't think that's gonna happen in my life.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Today. Heather requires 24 hour attendant care.

[Heather Grossman]

I had to learn how to eat, how to swallow, how to sit up, how to speak on a ventilator. And just deal with everyday life this way.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Do you ever feel sorry for yourself?

[Heather Grossman]

Some days, you know.

I might have a date. Difficult day. It's been very hard.

But now I'm, you know, with my faith and the way my life is now, it's great. It might be hard for some people to believe, but it, I mean, I'm, I'm sitting in a very happy place.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Investigator/Interviewer]

Sunday, with the postseason approaching, count on an NFL on CBS doubleheader. The early window features the Bills out for revenge against Drake, May and the division leading Patriots.

[Ron Samuels]

Later, interconference squads square off when the.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Packers head to Mile High to face the Broncos.

[Ron Samuels]

It all begins at night, noon Eastern.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

With the NFL Today.

[Ron Samuels]

You can always count on Sundays with the NFL on CBS and streaming on Paramount.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Plus.