Tracking the Killer of Mary Catherine Edwards

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Tracking the Killer of Mary Catherine Edwards" "48 Hours" by CBS News Release Date: November 11, 2024

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Introduction

In the gripping episode titled "Tracking the Killer of Mary Catherine Edwards," CBS News' 48 Hours delves deep into the tragic and prolonged investigation of Mary Katherine Edwards' murder. Hosted by renowned correspondents Tina Llewellyn and Brandon Bess, the episode navigates through decades of unanswered questions, groundbreaking forensic advancements, and the relentless pursuit of justice.

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The Crime

Mary Katherine Edwards, a beloved second-grade teacher, was brutally murdered on January 13, 1995. Her disappearance sparked one of Beaumont Police Department's most challenging cases.

• Tina Llewellyn [01:35]: "My daughter was murdered."
• Lieutenant Tina Llewellyn [05:17]: "The thing that really got me about the case was you don't expect to have this beautiful, young, single schoolteacher be murdered in her own home."

Mary was found handcuffed and sexually assaulted in her townhouse, with signs pointing to a non-stranger perpetrator.

• Tina Llewellyn [06:16]: "She was over the bathtub and she was obviously been sexually assaulted and handcuffed behind her back."

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The Initial Investigation

Early leads focused on determining whether the killer was someone Mary knew or a complete stranger. With no forced entry, suspicion initially fell on individuals within Mary's personal circle, including ex-boyfriends and even potential law enforcement officers due to the use of police-grade handcuffs.

• Brandon Bess [07:53]: "Maybe it was somebody in law enforcement or somebody in security. Could it have been somebody that we knew?"

Despite extensive efforts, the case remained cold for years, with DNA evidence preserved but untapped due to the limitations of forensic technology at the time.

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Breakthrough with DNA and Genetic Genealogy

Advancements in genetic genealogy became the turning point in solving Mary's murder. By 2018, the integration of DNA analysis with genealogical databases like GEDmatch revolutionized cold case investigations.

• Brandon Bess [08:38]: "Genetic genealogy."
• Tina Llewellyn [08:59]: "Genetic genealogy."

In April 2020, Mary's preserved DNA was submitted to Othram, a forensic lab, leading to potential familial matches that expanded into a vast family tree of over 7,500 names.

• Brandon Bess [11:14]: "The tree grew up and down and sideways. There were almost 7,500 names."

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Collaboration with Cheryl Lapointe

Enter Cheryl Lapointe, a seasoned genealogist and friend of the team, whose expertise was crucial in navigating the extensive family tree.

• Brandon Bess [10:35]: "And when they called her, they found out Shara had been building her family tree."

The collaboration was intense, with constant communication to filter through thousands of potential leads, ultimately homing in on the Lapointe family lineage.

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Uncovering the Suspect: Clayton Foreman

The investigation narrowed down to Clayton Foreman, a former high school football team manager with a dark past:

• Tina Llewellyn [16:52]: "This was back in the early 80s. We didn't have sex offender registry, no DNA database."

Foreman's history included a prior conviction for sexual assault, yet insufficient forensic procedures of the time meant his DNA was never collected.

• Brandon Bess [16:36]: "In 1981, a 19-year-old woman told police that Clayton Foreman bound her hands and raped her."

The breakthrough came when a trash sample containing Foreman's DNA yielded an unprecedented match probability of 461 septillion to one.

• Brandon Bess [21:12]: "The likelihood that the DNA belonged to Clayton Foreman was a big number 461, septillion. It doesn't get better than that."

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The Arrest

Armed with irrefutable DNA evidence, investigators moved swiftly to apprehend Foreman in Reynoldsburg, Ohio. Disguised under the pretense of discussing a lost item from one of his Uber rides, Texan Rangers Brandon Bess and Erin Llewellyn successfully confronted and detained him.

• Tina Llewellyn [22:55]: "We go in under the ruse of someone had left a purse in his car."

During the interrogation, Foreman maintained his innocence, despite overwhelming evidence.

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The Trial

Nearly 26 years after the crime, Foreman's trial commenced on March 12, 2024. Prosecutors presented a compelling case anchored by DNA evidence and testimonies from multiple victims who had suffered under Foreman's violence.

• Brandon Bess [31:33]: "Opening arguments began this morning. Foreman is charged with capital murder."

The defense, led by Tom Burbank, offered minimal counterarguments, failing to dismantle the prosecution's robust evidence.

Notable testimonies included:

• Diana Ko, Foreman's ex-wife, who recounted the uncannily cold response when Foreman learned of Mary's murder.

  • Tina Llewellyn [34:05]: "She was the final witness returning to the night her car got stuck."

• Other victims detailed Foreman's manipulative and violent behavior, further solidifying his culpability.

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Verdict and Reflections

The jury delivered a unanimous guilty verdict within an hour, sentencing Clayton Foreman to life imprisonment.

• Tina Llewellyn [39:53]: "We the jury, find the defendant guilty."

While justice was served, the emotional toll on the victims' families was profound. Tina Llewellyn expressed the futility of seeking closure:

• Tina Llewellyn [41:38]: "I don't believe there is such a thing as closure, not on this earth."

The team reflected on the moral complexities of justice, acknowledging that while Foreman's life was ended, the years he had already enjoyed were irreparably tainted:

• Roger Bess [41:38]: "He got to live a life and she should have been able to live a life and have children and go on. There’s no justice."

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Conclusion

"Tracking the Killer of Mary Catherine Edwards" not only highlights the relentless pursuit of justice by law enforcement but also underscores the evolution of forensic science in solving cold cases. The episode serves as a testament to dedication, innovation, and the enduring quest to honor victims long after the crimes have occurred.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina Llewellyn [27:34]: "And when you heard those words, guilty, what was that like for you?"
• Brandon Bess [40:48]: "We did it."
• Mary Katherine Edwards [43:47]: "I have given my life to God and I will follow his path. For me, that gives me a feeling of great relief and peace."

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Key Takeaways

• Persistence Pays Off: Decades-old cases can benefit from advancements in technology, offering hope for resolution.
• Genetic Genealogy's Impact: The integration of DNA analysis with genealogical research is revolutionizing criminal investigations.
• Emotional Toll: Solving such cases brings both relief and lingering sorrow to those affected.
• Justice's Complex Nature: While legal justice was achieved, personal healing remains an ongoing journey for the victims' families.

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For more in-depth analyses and updates on impactful criminal cases, tune in to 48 Hours every Monday on CBS and Paramount+, and explore the immersive "Post Mortem" series for behind-the-scenes insights.

Transcript

[Ryan Reynolds]

Wondery plus subscribers can listen to this podcast ad free right now. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app today. True crime fans know the feeling when a story pulls you in. You can feel like part of the investigation. And with Audible, there's a lot to uncover. Listeners might like after you've gone By Margo Hunt this Audible original is a gripping thriller that follows one woman as she tries to solve her best friend's murder in the French Quarter of New Orleans. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com 48 hours or text 48 hours to 500500 audible.com 48 hours hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we like to do.

[Brandon Bess]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Brandon Bess]

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[Tina Llewellyn]

What's your murder state?

[Ryan Reynolds]

My daughter was murdered.

[Brandon Bess]

She's been murdered.

[Ryan Reynolds]

We absolutely were obsessed with this case.

[Tina Llewellyn]

January 13, 1995 was the last known contact with Catherine.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She's handcuffed. She's been tortured. It was always a big case within the department because it was the biggest case unsolved. Nobody felt safe anywhere. Nobody knew if it was a neighbor. Nobody knew if it was a police officer because of the handcuffs being used. My name is Tina Llewellyn.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Erin Llewellyn. I'm a detective.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I'm a detective at Beaumont Police Department. My sister's dead. My parents are over there and I have a. Who's your sister? Katherine Edwards. I had no idea who Katherine Edwards was. But after I read decades of her journals. 1986, 1989, 91, 94. I feel like I know her. Things are looking up in my life. I'm going to teach second grade next year. I know I meant to do this. There were so many of her students that came forward to share the impact she had on their lives 25 years later. They were always close to me in my heart. I'm Diana Ko and I was friends with Katherine and her twin sister Allison, since middle school. They were so sweet and so funny. They had a cute laugh and everybody just loved him. This was not an easy case to crack. Every free moment I would try to work this case while still maintaining my caseload.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Staying up till midnight every night.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It just was not going to happen without the DNA.

[Tina Llewellyn]

If there was no DNA in this case, if that evidence had not been properly maintained. Nope. We'd have never got there. My name is Brandon Best, Sergeant, Texas Rangers Company, A cold case team. The technology has changed so much since 1995. By the time we got to Katherine Edwards, there were a lot more of these resources that were available. We felt that genetic genealogy was going to be the answer to this case.

[Brandon Bess]

So you would do the police work? You would do the genealogy work?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yes. Along with another genealogist. My name is Shera Broussard lapointe. Tina had started a tree and we really think alike and work together to build this tree with 7409 people in it.

[Brandon Bess]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I would call her no less than five times a day. We were on the phone constantly. Tell her what I found. Just back and forth. I blew her phone up trying to get to the bottom. We had to narrow down the different family members to find the direction lineage of our suspect.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Is this someone that knew her? Is this someone that was a stranger? She had some, you know, ex boyfriends. There was always the worry that it was a police officer. Some criminal is not going to have a pair of Smith and Wesson handcuffs.

[Brandon Bess]

There was no sign of forced entry at the time. Right?

[Tina Llewellyn]

Right. Did we believe it was someone she knew? Ye.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Natalie Morales reports tracking the killer of Mary Katherine Edwards.

[Tina Llewellyn]

The thing that really got me about the case was you don't expect to have this beautiful, young, single schoolteacher be murdered in her own home. She was such a great person, came from such a great family.

[Brandon Bess]

For Texas Ranger Brandon Bess, almost everything about the Mary Katherine Edwards case was different.

[Tina Llewellyn]

It was an unusual crime scene. She's over the bathtub and she's obviously been sexually assaulted and handcuffed behind her back.

[Brandon Bess]

Were they police grade handcuffs?

[Tina Llewellyn]

Handcuffs have always been a key piece of this.

[Brandon Bess]

January 14, 1995. It was a Saturday. Catherine, as most people called her, didn't show up for a family lunch. And she wasn't answering her phone. When her mother and father went to check on her, they had to see what no parent ever should.

[Ryan Reynolds]

What happened? Ma'am, we came over here and found her. Please send some. Mom. Okay, we're sending Someone, Ma'am, was she shot or what? We can't tell.

[Brandon Bess]

Katherine was 31.

[Ryan Reynolds]

My mom is the one that told me.

[Brandon Bess]

Diana Coe remembers hearing the news, and.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So she said, have you not heard about Katherine? And I go, my Katherine.

[Brandon Bess]

She had been friends with Katherine and her twin sister, Allison since middle school.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I was new to the area, so I knew no one. And they just started talking to me, asked me my name, and we were friends from that point forward.

[Brandon Bess]

The sisters, both schoolteachers, looked so much alike. Everyone had trouble telling them apart, especially their young students.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ms. Edwards, who's my second grade teacher.

[Brandon Bess]

Helenia Adams, remembers being in her classroom.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Most of us grew up in a pretty tough environment, and being around Ms. Edwards was a joy.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Originally, they believed that she might have been drowned, but there wasn't enough fluid in her lungs. So then it kind of became a suffocation by compression.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I just remember being told that our teacher wouldn't make it to class that day. Everyone just crying early.

[Brandon Bess]

Investigators could not piece together what happened, but those police grade handcuffs were a big clue.

[Tina Llewellyn]

It was almost talked about like a ghost story around a campfire.

[Brandon Bess]

Detective Aaron Llewellyn.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Maybe it was somebody in law enforcement or somebody in security. Could it have been somebody that we knew?

[Brandon Bess]

In the weeks after the murder, police focused on tracing the serial numbers of the handcuffs, but came up empty. They also zeroed in on an old boyfriend, David Perry.

[Tina Llewellyn]

They focused on him early on because there was no forced entry.

[Brandon Bess]

But Perry was out of town that night. He gave a DNA sample and it was not a match.

[Tina Llewellyn]

I wasn't there. It's not me.

[Brandon Bess]

The crime scene DNA stayed well preserved. And the years dragged on and on until forensic science changed genetic genealogy technology.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Genetic genealogy.

[Brandon Bess]

By 2018, there was a way to take the DNA left at a crime scene and search for biological relatives. A program, GEDmatch, scarfs up all the DNA from people who agree to share it with law enforcement and upload it when they use sites like Ancestry.com and 23andMe.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Ranger Bess approached me and he asked if I thought we had a case that would fit the bill for that type of investigation. I said, absolutely. I know the perfect case for this. And it was the Katherine Edwards case.

[Brandon Bess]

So in April 2020, the DNA from Katherine Edwards crime scene went to Othram, a lab outside of Houston for testing.

[Tina Llewellyn]

There they would give us familial matches, and from there, we would start trying to build a family tree to get us closer to our suspect.

[Brandon Bess]

Yeah, but the number of names to pursue Was overwhelming.

[Tina Llewellyn]

When the family tree began to grow beyond my computer screen, I started to get a little bit confused. And that's when Tina jumped on board.

[Brandon Bess]

Erin's wife Tina, an Auto Crimes detective, began using her off hours to help sort through it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The matches were all Cajun.

[Brandon Bess]

Cajun ancestry Coming from the Louisiana area?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yes, particularly Caplan, Louisiana.

[Brandon Bess]

So Tina went back to Catherine's journals.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Looking for clues to see if I could see a Cajun name that jumped out to me. I did find a few French names, and they were quickly eliminated and nowhere in our tree.

[Brandon Bess]

And as she was building out the branches, one of the names on the family tree kept coming up. Lapointe.

[Ryan Reynolds]

As I'm researching the matches and building my trees, and you're researching other people's trees, I kept noticing Shira Lapointe had built that tree. And then I'm working some more. I do some more research. Well, Shira Lapointe built this tree. And, like, is she related to our suspect? I had no idea who she was. This is actually my great grandmother, Claudia.

[Brandon Bess]

And when they called her, they found out Shara had been building her family tree.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It was my family's DNA kits that I had uploaded to GEDmatch.

[Brandon Bess]

And then they found out something that changed the course of the investigation. Shara was known professionally as the gene hunter and already skilled at working these cases. She'd identified one of the women buried along Interstate Highway 45 in the Texas Killing Fields case, and she agreed to lend her expertise.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I told him that I was willing.

[Brandon Bess]

To help, even if it meant taking a hard look at her own relatives.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It was kind of scary because I'm putting my own second cousins in this tree, and I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, you know, could one of my grandfather's sister's grandchildren have done this? They lived here in Texas.

[Brandon Bess]

It was a complicated multilayered process, using publicly available DNA, birth and death records, finding parents, siblings, and cousins.

[Ryan Reynolds]

As you build those trees, you look for information that is pertinent to the case that you're working on. We had a tag for people who were in Beaumont. She was a teacher. As you build tree, you look at people who are in education. Every one of these lines are built out.

[Brandon Bess]

The tree grew up and down and sideways. There were almost 7,500 names.

[Ryan Reynolds]

That's a lot of hours, a lot of work, and a lot of people in the family tree.

[Brandon Bess]

All the while, Tina hardly slept, working through most nights, knowing there was a killer still out there.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Tina Llewellyn]

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[Brandon Bess]

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[Brandon Bess]

Down at their computers. Day after day, constantly back and forth on the phone. Tina Llewellyn and genealogist Cheryl lapointe are quickly becoming great partners.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She was a team player from jump. Never had met me. We talked so often that we became friends.

[Brandon Bess]

Best buds.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Best buds. I don't know what else to say.

[Brandon Bess]

And when they needed DNA, they turned to Tina's husband, Aaron, and Texas Ranger Brandon Bess.

[Tina Llewellyn]

So from that point, me, Brandon Bess, would drive around in Texas and go talk to these people. Convincing someone to give their DNA up, to give a piece of themselves up to you in a homicide investigation can be very difficult. When we would sense anxiety in someone, Aaron would immediately tell them, hey, who do you want to play you in the movie? And they would look at Aaron like he was crazy and say, what are you talking about? Well, this guy's a Texas Ranger. Everything they do turns into a movie. Who do you want to play your role in this movie? That calmed him down every time. And I, of course, threw out there, hey, I've already got Brad Pitt. So, you know, you can't, you can't be Brad, because Brad's playing me.

[Brandon Bess]

Was there ever a time, though, that somebody actually thought my uncle may actually be a killer? Who knows?

[Tina Llewellyn]

In every one of these cases that I've worked, using DNA and genetic genealogy, you have at least one person, usually two or three, that says, you know what? I had that weird Uncle Joe.

[Brandon Bess]

Once the uploads were compared to the killer's DNA, if the amount of shared genetic material was Low. They knew it was a dead end.

[Tina Llewellyn]

There were times when we would come across a name and, like, you get that, the butterflies in your stomach, like, hey, maybe this is our guy. And then it turns out it's not our guy.

[Brandon Bess]

After almost three months of ups and downs and nearly nonstop work, Shara hit pay dirt.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It was about 10:30 at night.

[Brandon Bess]

She was working a family line very distantly related to her own.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It was a very common Cajun name. Thibodeau. I got to a couple who were in Beaumont. I was able to see from records that they had two sons.

[Brandon Bess]

This was a major lead. A family in Kathryn's town with two sons who went to Forest Park High, the same school Katherine did at around the same time.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I put the names in the tree and I messaged Tina and I said, there's a couple in Beaumont. I'm tired. I'm going to bed. And I turned my cell phone off and I fell asleep on the sofa. And when I woke up the next morning, my phone had just blown up.

[Brandon Bess]

And it was you on the other end.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yes.

[Brandon Bess]

What were you saying?

[Ryan Reynolds]

This is them. We found them. Just didn't know which one.

[Brandon Bess]

Okay. It's either Michael Foreman or Clayton Foreman. What did you do to figure that out?

[Tina Llewellyn]

The first name I ran was Clayton. And then when I came across his prior conviction for the sexual assault, the hair on the back of my neck stood up. I'm like, this is our guy.

[Brandon Bess]

In 1981, a 19 year old woman told police that Clayton Foreman bound her hands and raped her. She had also gone to Forest Park High School, where Clayton was the manager of the football team. Foreman was convicted, but was given probation and paid a fine. But he did not have to give a DNA sample at that time.

[Tina Llewellyn]

This was back in the early 80s. We didn't have sex offender registry, no DNA database.

[Brandon Bess]

And then they found another connection. It went all the way back to Diana Ko, Kathryn's friend from middle school. In high school, Diana fell madly in love. Her boyfriend had graduated three years ahead of her, and they got engaged.

[Ryan Reynolds]

He was so kind. He had the most wonderful personality.

[Brandon Bess]

And when she started planning her wedding, she immediately turned to her old friends Catherine and Allison.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And they were one of the first ones I thought of as a bridesmaid. And I asked them, and they said yes.

[Brandon Bess]

And the groom, the man Diana Coe married back in 1982, now he was their number one suspect, Clayton Foreman. She, in fact, did know him. Yes, in hindsight, there were signs. When Diana found out about Clayton's legal troubles, the wedding was less than three.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Months away, and the wedding invitations had already been mailed out. And I said, rape. I said, oh, there's no way.

[Brandon Bess]

But she never got any details. And her fiance explained it away.

[Ryan Reynolds]

He kept telling me it was a big misunderstanding. And so in my mind, I thought, well, he must be telling the truth, because if he got arrested, he's not in jail.

[Brandon Bess]

But you didn't really believe it was rape, right? Diana's sister Ann and her brother Scooter were not so sure. And neither were their parents who wanted her to call it off.

[Tina Llewellyn]

And I said, well, Diana, why don't you just wait? And she didn't want to wait. She wanted to marry Clay. She was in love with him.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She's believing him, and she's wanting to get married. Then we have to support as a family. He was like, I'm so, so sorry. I love you. I want us to be married. I want us to have a family. And so I was like, okay, you know, so I went through with it.

[Brandon Bess]

Diana and Clayton stayed married for a little more than 11 years. They had a son. The relationship began to fray over. Foreman lying about their finances. And it ended after he had an affair. And looking back, Diana can see that he had an unhealthy fascination with police officers and the tools of their trade, like handcuffs.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I remember that he had ordered those handcuffs. Well, he had them hung over the rear view mirror. And I. I didn't think anything of it.

[Brandon Bess]

When Katherine was killed, they were divorced. But Diana remembers calling her ex husband to talk about it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I think I was, you know, crying, and I said, oh, my God. I said, somebody has murdered Katherine. And he goes, oh, really? Just like, no emotion. When we hung the phone up, I can remember because I was, like, kind of squinting and kind of like, going, God, that's kind of odd.

[Brandon Bess]

With all the mounting evidence, Foreman needed to be found. He was 60 and no longer living in Beaumont. They quickly tracked him to Reynoldsburg, Ohio. What was he doing there?

[Tina Llewellyn]

He was an Uber driver at the time. Sir. I was able to send a lead to a field office up there and basically did what we call a trash run.

[Brandon Bess]

You need to collect a piece of DNA so that you can ensure that it's the right guy.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Correct. So that's what they did. They surveilled his house and then went and snatched a bag of trash and sent it to me. So I brought that stuff to Houston to the DPS crime lab, and from there, they tested it.

[Brandon Bess]

The likelihood that the DNA belonged to Clayton Foreman was a big number 461, septillion. It doesn't get better than that. Says Cheryl Lapointe.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I mean, you can't fight those odds. You cannot fight those off.

[Brandon Bess]

And that was all they needed.

[Tina Llewellyn]

I got a text from a DPS lab technician, and she said, go get his ass.

[Brandon Bess]

Aaron Llewellyn and Brandon Bess were about to hop a plane to Ohio, ready to face the man they felt sure had killed Catherine.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Mr. Foreman, right? Yes, sir.

[Brandon Bess]

And while they're doing that, Tina pays a visit to Diana Coe. Did they tell you we had. They had DNA, though? Tina told you that?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I just went, oh, my God, Please don't tell me it was Clay. I almost fell to the ground. I was just like, oh, my God. I. Oh, God, I can't believe he's done this. What do you think of sharing your DNA with law enforcement to help solve a murder? Chat now with the 48 Hours team on Facebook and X.

[Brandon Bess]

When Texas Ranger Brandon Bess and Detective Erin Llewellyn arrive at the Franklin County Sheriff's Office to confront Clayton Foreman, they have a cover story. It's about a lost item from one of Forman's Uber rides.

[Tina Llewellyn]

We go in under the. Under the ruse of someone had left a purse in his car. So he came in voluntarily to talk about a purse that was in the car.

[Brandon Bess]

It was April 29, 2021, 26 years after Katherine Edwards was murdered. And they are sure. They are sitting in front of the man who murdered her.

[Tina Llewellyn]

And we're asking you to visit with us about a crime that we're investigating. Okay.

[Brandon Bess]

Did he immediately go, uh, oh, no, he didn't.

[Tina Llewellyn]

So the crime that we're looking at is the murder of Mary Katherine Edwards. And she was murdered in 1995.

[Brandon Bess]

I guess he pretty quickly realized he wasn't there to give up a purse.

[Tina Llewellyn]

He did. And we found a picture of a wedding picture that she and her sister Allison were actually in. Your wedding. Right. And 1982. 82. Do you ever remember anyone ever coming to you about that crime? Were you aware of the crime even? No. You didn't know the crime occurred? No, sir. Okay. We backed him into a bunch of hard corners. He claimed that he didn't even know that she was dead. You didn't know that Katherine Edwards was murdered?

[Brandon Bess]

No, sir.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Did not. Do you remember them from school? Do you remember the girls from school? Not really. Because they were freshmen when you were a senior? Yes, sir. Okay, so on Mary Edwards, Mary Craft. Catherine Edwards. Didn't know her. Well, did you Ever visit with her at all? Did you ever go in her house at all, any house that she ever lived in?

[Ryan Reynolds]

No.

[Tina Llewellyn]

You know, did you know where she lived? No. Had no idea.

[Brandon Bess]

So. And he's denying. Denying.

[Tina Llewellyn]

He is denying. You know, in these DNA cases, when you. Whether you're going to get a confession or not, you want to build up that background of, hey, did you know them? Number one? Did y'all have mutts acquaintance with them? Or was it just like a high school friend thing? How did you know him? I think they were bridesmaids for my Mike's wife. That's right. Did you ever go on a date? Never dated all the way up to. Did you ever have sex with this person? Never, obviously had sex with her.

[Brandon Bess]

No.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Never. Did you go to college together? Did you do all. Everything was a no. And we had those denials several times.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And then.

[Tina Llewellyn]

So towards the end of the interview, we asked him, well, if all those things are true, can you explain how your DNA ended up on her and on her bed? Do you understand DNA, and do you understand how DNA works? You understand you're made of DNA. He's made of DNA. I'm made of DNA. I think that Foreman knew enough about DNA that he thought he would have been caught already. He knew that he had never submitted his DNA. He had no clue that he was going to be arrested that day. Clay, I'm a level with you right here and now, and I want you to hear me real close. All right, sir? That crime scene was processed really well, and your DNA was on Katherine's bed and was inside Katherine, Okay? I mean, I don't know how I got there, but crusade was there. There's only one way for it to get there, okay? And that's by you putting it there. Okay? Do you understand that? Do you understand the implications of that? The day that she died, the night that she died, your DNA is in her, and your DNA is on her bedspread. Now, I don't want you to say anything right this second. I want you to think about the next words that come out of your mouth. I want you to think very hard about that, okay? There's two people that know that story. You're one of them and she's the other, and she can't talk. What I asked you is now to be honest with us completely and tell us, how did that happen? I'm not gonna say anything. I probably need an attorney. Now, you probably need one, or you do need one? If you're saying I did that, then I Finally need an attorney to talk to you. Well, that all we got then we're gonna let you walk out of the door just like we told you. It's a grainy video, but you can probably see us grinning at each other. You have all your stuff that he thinks he's walking out of here. He thinks he's fixing to leave here. So as he got out down the hallway, headed towards the elevator, we stopped him and arrested him for the murder of Kathryn Edwards.

[Brandon Bess]

And after all those years and all that work, Erin Llewellyn and Brandon Bess had one thing left they needed to do.

[Tina Llewellyn]

If you remember, back when we were talking about the crime scene, she was handcuffed. So we had Talked to the D.A. s office beforehand and got permission to.

[Brandon Bess]

Use those handcuffs, the very handcuffs that bound Catherine the night she died. How did it feel to put those handcuffs on?

[Tina Llewellyn]

Very good. Is a moment I'll never forget. You feel like you got to do something for Catherine, you know, like physically got to do for her is take those cuffs that bound her when she was murdered and put them back on the guy that murdered her. It's. You know, it may seem small to some, but it was a really big deal to us, and it felt good.

[Brandon Bess]

Even though they had their suspicions about him, the news that Clayton Foreman was arrested for the murder of Katherine Edwards was still a shock for his ex wife, Diana Ko, and her siblings Ann and Scooter.

[Tina Llewellyn]

And she calls me and she says, clay murdered Katherine.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And I said, do what your brain doesn't, because it knows him as a person, as somebody that you. Your brother in law or your brother. That was. That was hard.

[Brandon Bess]

Yeah.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I thought of Allison, and I just. I just couldn't believe it. My thought immediately went to Allison and I just said, allison, oh, my God, she's gonna hate me. Etsy knows these aren't the sounds of holiday gifting.

[Brandon Bess]

Oh. Or ah.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Okay.

[Brandon Bess]

Thank you.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Well, they're not the sounds you're hoping for. You want squeals of delight like this. Ooh. And spontaneously written songs of joy. I am so happy. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Brandon Bess]

To get those, make everyone on your.

[Ryan Reynolds]

List feel heard with gifts like personalized jewelry, custom artwork, vintage pieces, and home decor. For original gifts that say I get you, etsy has it 48 hours listeners are no strangers to stories that can make you question your safety. But when it comes to protecting your home, there's something you can do. There's Simplisafe offering reliable round the clock home security. Their vigilant monitoring services are always ready to respond immediately to any intrusion, providing you with peace of mind. With standout features like Simplisafe's Live Guard protection, agents can actively monitor your home, confront intruders in real time, and notify you that help is on the way. Adding a powerful layer of deterrence. Protect your home this summer with 20% off any new SimpliSafe system. When you sign up for Fast protect monitoring, visit SimpliSafe.com 48hours. Again, that's SimpliSafe.com 48hours. There's no safe like Simplisafe. Opening arguments began this morning. Foreman is charged with capital murder.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Guilty or knock?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Guilty. Knock guilty.

[Brandon Bess]

March 12, 2024.

[Tina Llewellyn]

This is not going to be easy for a lot of people because it's been a long time coming.

[Brandon Bess]

Nearly 30 years after Katherine Edwards was found dead in her townhouse, you got.

[Tina Llewellyn]

To remember, this happened in 1995.

[Brandon Bess]

Beaumont prosecutor Patrick Knaud and his colleagues Mike Laird and Sunny Eckhart are ready for trial.

[Tina Llewellyn]

You're going to get to learn a lot about DNA.

[Brandon Bess]

And they're extremely confident about their case against Clayton Foreman.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Mr. Burbank, do you want to make an opening statement at this time?

[Brandon Bess]

No, you, Honor. Tom Burbank is defending Foreman.

[Tina Llewellyn]

He didn't really have anything, and he knew it.

[Brandon Bess]

Next witness. The prosecution calls Catherine's twin sister, Allison.

[Tina Llewellyn]

We wanted to remind everyone this is about Katherine and her family.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And that's the way we wanted to.

[Brandon Bess]

Start off with here at 60. Sitting before them was the spitting image of what could have been.

[Ryan Reynolds]

That is a picture of my sister.

[Brandon Bess]

Catherine, reliving the day she lost Catherine.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And then the next thing we know, you know, my mom and dad drove.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Up.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And told us. What? I mean, there were no words. She was dead. That was all that mattered. I didn't know how, what or anything. I didn't know what happened to her. It was just that she was gone was all I knew.

[Brandon Bess]

The pain and the loss still so palpable.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Four years later, I had a daughter.

[Brandon Bess]

And her name is Katherine.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Katherine, after my sister. And she never got to know her. That's the hardest part. It was a lot.

[Brandon Bess]

Helenia Adams, Katherine Edwards, student when she was 7 and now 37. Sat in the courtroom nearly every day.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It was times when they would show photos or when they showed the videos of her on the floor. It was as if your heart was breaking all over again. You measure the proximity of matching DNA.

[Brandon Bess]

Detective Tina Llewellyn and genealogist Cheryl Point, along with other crime lab technicians, walk the jury through the process of the genealogy and the DNA match. Texas Ranger Bess and Detective Erin Llewellyn go through the final stages of the investigation, all carefully coordinated to make the chain of evidence airtight. And on the last day, the prosecution calls all the women who had been scarred by foremen and were alive to say so.

[Tina Llewellyn]

He was your supervisor?

[Brandon Bess]

That's correct. An old co worker.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Whenever I opened up the drawer, there was a pair of handcuffs.

[Brandon Bess]

A former fiance who found pictures of young girls. He said to me that he had.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Them so that he could fantasize about taking their virginity.

[Brandon Bess]

His ex wife, Diana Ko, who agreed to testify.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Did you think at the time you were in love with the defendant?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yes.

[Brandon Bess]

When you saw him at trial, how hard was that for you?

[Ryan Reynolds]

That was very hard and it was very embarrassing to me and I do feel ashamed.

[Brandon Bess]

And it was during the trial that Diana learned about what really happened to that 19 year old woman in the months before she and Foreman married.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It was the most horrific thing that I could have ever heard. I couldn't imagine what she went through and was so brave to get up and say what she said.

[Brandon Bess]

She was the final witness returning to the night her car got stuck. And Foreman, falsely claiming he was a policeman, offered to help Percy.

[Ryan Reynolds]

He tied my hands back. He tied your hands behind your back?

[Brandon Bess]

Yes.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Did he threaten to cut your throat if you didn't?

[Brandon Bess]

Yes.

[Tina Llewellyn]

This whole thing took a while, didn't it?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yes, sir.

[Tina Llewellyn]

I'm sorry. What happened then?

[Ryan Reynolds]

He took me home.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Did he say something that you felt was odd?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yes. He said three things. He said, stop crying. I'm sorry. I hope I didn't hurt you.

[Brandon Bess]

And there was another woman who did not testify but went on the record, an alleged victim of Foreman's violence. Also a high school friend of Diana who did not press charges. She told investigators Foreman attacked her from behind and put a gun to her head.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She had indicated back in 85 or.

[Tina Llewellyn]

86 that he had come to her apartment and knocked on the door and.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Told her that he was having financial.

[Tina Llewellyn]

And marital problems with Diana and he.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Needed somebody to talk to and so she let him in.

[Brandon Bess]

Prosecutors suspect Foreman used a similar ruse the night he appeared at Katherine Edwards door.

[Tina Llewellyn]

That's the way we thought. He got to Catherine because Kathryn was.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Very, very Christian, very given, very naive.

[Tina Llewellyn]

And it's a wonderful thing to be, except when you're faced with Clayton Foreman.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I've always wondered, did he say something about me? Hey, it's Clay. You know, I need to talk to you about something about Diana. It's Always. I've always wondered. But I thought I'll never know.

[Brandon Bess]

After seven days of prosecution testimony, the defense calls no witnesses and attorney Burbank closes.

[Ryan Reynolds]

You heard different things.

[Tina Llewellyn]

And reference to sex things and stuff like that.

[Brandon Bess]

Okay.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Still doesn't make him a murderer.

[Ryan Reynolds]

You may not like him because of what people say, but I submit to you, they have not proven murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Brandon Bess]

The prosecution wraps up its case.

[Tina Llewellyn]

And it's so easy to believe that legal doesn't exist. It is here in this courtroom. Here, today. These are things I wish I didn't know exist. And I'm sorry I've had to talk to you about it. But I didn't bring us here.

[Ryan Reynolds]

You did.

[Brandon Bess]

Now it'd be up to a jury to decide Clayton Foreman's future. Patrick Knaud wants them to remember Katherine Edwards didn't have one.

[Tina Llewellyn]

And I do pray that Mike and.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I have done a good job for Gary and you.

[Tina Llewellyn]

I hope we've done our job.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Hey prime members, have you heard? You can listen to your favorite podcasts ad free. Good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad free top podcasts included with your prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon music app for free or go to Amazon.com ad freepodcast that's Amazon.com ad free podcast to catch up on the latest episodes. Without the ads, fall is in the air and that cooler weather calls for an update in your skincare. Moisturizing is key to keeping wrinkles at bay. That's why we need a skincare routine.

[Brandon Bess]

That'S easy, fast and gives us results.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Plus, what if your products had thousands of five star reviews were natural and affordable? Well, say hello to Dime Beauty. Dime Beauty is clean, high end skincare that is affordable and it really works. Not sure where to start. I highly recommend the work system. It's everything you need in one powerful package. Take out the guesswork with a proven routine that includes a gentle yet effective cleanser, a super skin toner, two incredible serums and two luxurious moisturizers. See what everyone is raving about. From serum sets to the always sold out retinol alternative TBT cream, you'll find your perfect skincare match. Dime has over 2 million happy customers and their product reviews are literally 5 stars. Love your skin again. Go to dimebeautyco.com and unlock your discount. That's dimebeautyco.com that's dimebeautyco.com.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Is this verdict a unanimous one?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yes sir.

[Brandon Bess]

It takes less than an hour for the jury to come back with the.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Verdict, we the jury, find the defendant guilty.

[Brandon Bess]

Clayton Foreman, guilty and sentenced to life for the murder of Katherine Edwards.

[Tina Llewellyn]

It didn't take long because all the evidence was there.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Once it got into the DNA, more or less sealed it for him.

[Brandon Bess]

Larry Delcombe, juror number two, says he and his fellow jurors had very little to talk about.

[Tina Llewellyn]

He had no defense that it wasn't him. There's no denial there.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It felt like, hey, this thing does.

[Brandon Bess]

Work for Helenia Adams. Finally, some justice for a favorite teacher after all.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I wanted to close that door finally. She meant so much to me.

[Brandon Bess]

And when you heard those words, guilty, what was that like for you?

[Tina Llewellyn]

We did it.

[Brandon Bess]

Was it. Was it emotional? We did it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

This whole case was emotional.

[Brandon Bess]

For detectives Tina and Aaron Llewellyn, genealogist Cheryl lapointe, and ranger Brandon Bess, it was the ending they had all worked for. But it left lots of room for reflection.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And I think the justice system has worked, and he's where he needs to be. But to say that that's honestly justice for Mary Katherine, it's frustrating to know that he lived a life and she should have been able to live a life and have children and go on. That is frustrating. I never used the word closure. I never used the word justice. There's no justice. He got to live 26 years. He got to get married. He got to have kids. She did not. There's no justice.

[Tina Llewellyn]

I don't believe there is such a thing as closure, not on this earth.

[Brandon Bess]

Bess always wanted a confession. They all wanted to know why 70%.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Of the time, you're not going to get that. And 100% of the time, you're not going to get the whole story anyway.

[Ryan Reynolds]

We all wanted those answers. And because he was spineless and didn't talk to us or give us any information, we'll never know the details behind it.

[Brandon Bess]

And everyone was still reeling, asking themselves how it was that Clayton Foreman walked among them, and no one saw his monstrous core all those years hiding in plain sight.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So when we identified him, I actually have mutual friends with him that were in shock. They could not believe it was him because they knew he was such a nice guy. He had fooled so many people for so long.

[Tina Llewellyn]

I personally believe that there are more victims out there. We just hadn't found them yet.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I find it hard to believe that he has not assaulted other people. I really feel with all my of my being, I feel that there are others.

[Brandon Bess]

And how do you think he was able to conceal this darker side?

[Ryan Reynolds]

That's the part. I cannot. I can't. I don't understand it. I don't know how he could. Like I always say, it's like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

[Tina Llewellyn]

I have my own speculations.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I think somebody, I think some people are demon possessed or demon influenced because that's pure evil. There's nothing else you can explain.

[Tina Llewellyn]

That's just evil.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I was married to a monster is what I was married to and didn't know it. Didn't know it. I think if he wouldn't have married me, she'd still be alive. That's not true.

[Brandon Bess]

But in the wake of the trial, it was time to turn away from Foreman and remember Katherine Edwards as she was and in her own words.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Wow. I didn't realize the timing on this one. December 11, 1994. She was murdered a month later. I have given my life to God and I will follow his path. For me, that gives me a feeling of great relief and peace. The human spirit is stronger than anything that can happen to it.

[Brandon Bess]

The vibrant, beloved schoolteacher in her prime, gone far too soon. If you could talk directly with Mary Katherine Edwards, what would you wish to tell her?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Oh, my gosh, I think I would say I love her and I'm sorry. I'm so sorry this happened to her. And I was honored to be given the privilege to help give answers. Very honored, very honored. She was a very special person. She really was. Unfortunately, it introduced me to real loss, to trauma, to fear, to grief, to heartbreak, to all the feelings. A podcast I watched. They would always ask aspiring lawyers, when did you fall in love with law? And I think that's when I fell in love with law in the second grade, when Clayton Foreman took my life from me.

[Brandon Bess]

Helenia is a student once again. She's studying for her master's in criminal justice and plans to apply to law school. A tribute to her teacher.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Clayton Foreman is eligible for parole in 2061. By then, he will be 101 years old.

[Brandon Bess]

If you like this podcast, you can.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Listen ad free right now by joining Wondery in the Wondery app. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a quick [e-mail] survey. Did you know that after World War.

[Brandon Bess]

II, the US government quietly brought former.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Nazi scientists to America in a covert operation to advance military technology?

[Brandon Bess]

Or that in the 1950s, the US army conducted a secret experiment by releasing back bacteria over San Francisco to test how a biological attack might spread without alerting the public?

[Tina Llewellyn]

These might sound like conspiracy theories, but they're not.

[Brandon Bess]

They're well documented government operations that have been hidden away in classified files for decades.

[Tina Llewellyn]

I'm Luke lamanna, a Marine Corps Recon.

[Brandon Bess]

Vet and I've always had a thing for digging into the unknown.

[Tina Llewellyn]

It's what led me to start my.

[Brandon Bess]

New podcast, Redacted Declassified Mysteries. In it I explore hidden truths and reveal some eye opening events like covert experiments and secret operations that those in power tried to keep buried. Follow Redacted Declassified Mysteries with me, Luke.

[Tina Llewellyn]

Lamanna on the Wondery app or wherever.

[Brandon Bess]

You get your podcasts to listen ad free. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app It was 1983. Power suits and perms were all the rage. Nightclubs pulse with energy and from bedrooms.

[Ryan Reynolds]

To boardrooms, cocaine was the drug of choice. One woman was raking in cash to keep that supply chain moving. Her name was Laney Jacobs. But Laney had her sights set higher.

[Brandon Bess]

She dreamed of becoming a Hollywood movie producer.

[Ryan Reynolds]

That's how it starts. Before it ends, someone will be shot dead. From Wondery and the team behind the hit series Hollywood and Crime comes a gripping tale of ambition, betrayal and the dark side of moviemaking. Follow Hollywood and Crime, the Cotton Club.

[Brandon Bess]

Murder on the Wondery App or wherever.

[Ryan Reynolds]

You get your podcasts. Listen everywhere on December 2nd. Or you can binge all episodes early and ad free on Wondery starting November 11th.