Untangling The Lies of Jodi Arias

Summary

48 Hours Podcast Episode Summary: "Untangling The Lies of Jodi Arias"

Introduction

In the gripping episode titled "Untangling The Lies of Jodi Arias," CBS News' award-winning podcast "48 Hours" delves deep into the complex and highly publicized case of Jodi Arias. Released on April 30, 2025, this episode meticulously examines the narrative spun by Arias, the overwhelming evidence presented against her, and the ultimate verdict that concluded her legal battles.

---

Background of the Case

Maureen Maher, the host, provides an overview of Jodi Arias, a once-normal woman whose life spiraled into infamy following the brutal murder of her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander, in 2008. Arias's initial interview with "48 Hours" in 2009, conducted shortly after her arrest, marked the beginning of her transformation into a national sensation.

"[...] I met Jodi Arias at the Estrella Jail four and a half years ago when she agreed to tell CBS News her story of how Travis Alexander had been murdered."
— Maureen Maher [02:19]

---

The Initial Interview and Early Impressions

During the three-hour interview, Arias presented a narrative of secret intimacy and alleged abuse, claiming that Travis's actions left her with no choice but to defend herself. Her portrayal painted Travis as an abusive partner, a claim that would later become a cornerstone of her defense.

"I know that I won't be the first person to be wrongly convicted and possibly wrongly sentenced for either life in prison or the death penalty."
— Jodi Arias [01:04]

"There was an attraction and you know it. It found an outlet on occasion."
— Jodi Arias [02:24]

---

The Trial: Prosecution vs. Defense

Prosecution's Case

Prosecutor Juan Martinez built a compelling case against Arias, presenting overwhelming evidence that contradicted her claims of self-defense. Key elements included:

• Crime Scene Evidence: Detailed photographs showing blood spatter and Travis's injuries, including a slit throat and gunshot wounds.

  "Latent print 169A was individualized as the left palm of Jodi Ann Arias. Is that the bullet?"
  — Ryan Reynolds [08:27]

• Medical Examiner Testimony: Autopsy reports highlighting the severity of Travis's wounds.

  "The most significant wounds are going to be the neck wound, the stab wound that penetrates the heart, and also the gunshot wound."
  — Mesa County Medical Examiner Kevin Horn [08:50]

• Behavioral Evidence: Arias's inconsistent stories and efforts to manipulate public perception, including misleading interviews with "48 Hours."

  "She premeditated it. You now have a duty. You are to reach a decision as to whether or not the defendant committed first degree murder."
  — Ryan Reynolds [37:56]

Defense's Strategy

Defense Attorney Linda Kenny Baden aimed to portray Arias as a battered woman acting in self-defense. Key aspects included:

• Allegations of Abuse: Testimonies from experts like Alice La Violette, a domestic violence expert, who described the relationship as abusive both verbally and physically.

  "He really didn't know and probably didn't care because when you're young and you're having sex the way Jody made it very easy for him and he didn't realize that he had this rattlesnake by the neck, whatever he did fed into her craziness, fed into her insanity, fed into her desire that she wanted him and she wanted to control him and she wanted to have a life with him."
  — Linda Kenny Baden [30:23]

• Memory Loss Claims: Psychological evaluations suggesting Arias suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and resultant amnesia, clouding her memories of the event.

  "The State may call its next witness."
  — Jodi Arias [12:40]

---

Key Evidence Presented

The prosecution introduced a plethora of evidence undermining Arias's claims:

• Photographic Evidence: Images captured at the crime scene showing Arias's footprints, Travis's head and arm, and blood spatter patterns that contradicted her narrative.

  "This is a photograph of the staining on the sink and some of the spatter inside of the sink running down."
  — Ryan Reynolds [08:17]

• Forensic Analysis: Examination of Arias's latent fingerprints and ballistic evidence linking her directly to the wounds inflicted on Travis.

  "He called me a bitch and he kicked me in the ribs."
  — Jodi Arias [04:10]

---

Arias's Testimony and Inconsistencies

Arias took the stand multiple times, presenting conflicting accounts of the events leading to Travis's death. Her testimonies ranged from describing masked intruders to spontaneous self-defense, each version fraught with inconsistencies.

"I charged her. She thinks she was in the shower when I stabbed him."
— Jodi Arias [12:00]

"I don't remember stabbing him."
— Jodi Arias [17:52]

These discrepancies, highlighted by the prosecution, severely damaged her credibility.

---

Psychological Assessments and Expert Testimonies

Experts presented during the trial provided critical insights:

• Dr. Richard Samuels, a clinical psychologist, supported Arias's claims of PTSD-induced amnesia.

  "She knows that I'm not innocent. And even though this is a very serious thing to be charged with, there's no reason for me to be sad, because I know that I'm not."
  — Jodi Arias [25:22]

• Dr. Stuart Kleiman, a forensic psychiatrist, challenged the validity of Samuels's diagnosis, suggesting Arias's actions were deliberate rather than a result of altered mental states.

  "It's very reasonable to conclude this person acted out their rage and told lies about it afterwards."
  — Ryan Reynolds [19:18]

• Alice La Violette, a domestic violence expert, corroborated the defense's portrayal of an abusive relationship, though the prosecution contested these claims.

  "He picked me up and he body slammed me again on the tile. I remembered where he kept a gun, so I grabbed it."
  — Jodi Arias [16:19]

---

Verdict and Sentencing

After intense deliberations, the jury found Jodi Arias guilty of first-degree murder. The sentencing phase commenced with arguments for the death penalty against the alternative of life imprisonment without parole.

"We the jury... do find the defendant guilty of first degree murder."
— Ryan Reynolds [41:58]

Arias expressed a preference for the death penalty, stating:

"Ultimately, I think, I really hope that she gets the death penalty."
— Jodi Arias [44:03]

Ultimately, Jodi Arias was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, sparing her from execution but ensuring she would never regain her freedom.

---

Impact on Families and Public Perception

The trial's aftermath was emotionally taxing for both Travis Alexander's and Jodi Arias's families. Travis's loved ones sought closure and justice, while Arias's family grappled with their relative's actions and public vilification.

"Just as much as Travis lost his life, there's going to be parts of that family that have died in the process."
— Linda Kenny Baden [33:39]

Public perception remained divided, with many viewing Arias as manipulative and deceitful, while others sympathized with her claims of self-defense.

"She is a liar and she's evil."
— Travis Alexander's Siblings [39:58]

---

Conclusion and Reflections

"Untangling The Lies of Jodi Arias" offers a comprehensive exploration of a case that captivated the nation. Through meticulous reporting and in-depth interviews, "48 Hours" sheds light on the complexities of the criminal justice system, the challenges of distinguishing truth from deception, and the profound human emotions intertwined with such high-profile cases.

The episode underscores the importance of critical investigation and the relentless pursuit of truth, reminding listeners that justice is often multifaceted and fraught with moral and ethical dilemmas.

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Notable Quotes

• "I don't believe that I'm going to be convicted."
  — Jodi Arias [05:17]

• "These are photographs that the killer did not want. Take it."
  — Ryan Reynolds [12:40]

• "She enjoys every moment of it. [...] You know, she enjoyed toying with people."
  — Travis Alexander's Friends [36:31]

• "She couldn't let him go."
  — Ryan Reynolds [30:49]

These quotes encapsulate the central tensions of the case: Arias's confidence and eventual capitulation, the damning evidence against her, and the personal struggles faced by those involved.

Transcript

[Maureen Maher]

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[Jodi Arias]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Maureen Maher]

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[Jodi Arias]

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[Maureen Maher]

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[Jodi Arias]

I know that I won't be the first person to be wrongly convicted and possibly wrongly sentenced for either life in prison or the death penalty. And personally, if I had my choice, I would take the death penalty because I don't want to spend the rest of my life in prison.

[Maureen Maher]

We introduced you to Jodi Arias back in 2009 when she sat down to be interviewed by 48 Hours shortly after being arrested and charged with the murder of her ex boyfriend Travis Alexander. Since then she's become a national sensation, the focus of newspaper and magazine profiles, and the subject of 24 hour cable news coverage. I met Jodi Arias at the Estrella Jail four and a half years ago when she agreed to tell CBS News her story of how Travis Alexander had been murdered. An interview which for the first time in the history of 48 hours was used as evidence in a death penalty trial. Just give me the gist of what you are doing here in this place today.

[Jodi Arias]

Today I am interviewing with you. I've been charged with first degree murder of my friend Travis Alexander and I'm just here to have a conversation with you about it.

[Maureen Maher]

During this three hour interview, Jody told us a tale of secret intimacy.

[Jodi Arias]

There was an attraction and you know it. It found an outlet on occasion.

[Maureen Maher]

That's a very creative way of saying it. It found an outlet. The drama of masked intruders.

[Jodi Arias]

There were two Individuals walking toward us. And I just heard a loud bang and Travis was screaming.

[Maureen Maher]

And ultimately a desperate escape.

[Jodi Arias]

He was holding the gun at my forehead. He pulled the trigger and nothing happened with the gun. And so I just grabbed my purse and I ran down the stairs and out of there and I left him there.

[Maureen Maher]

It was an incredible story.

[Jodi Arias]

So at that point, I remember pulling over again at the Hoover Dam and I thought, I'm going to call Travis. And I tried calling him and it just went to voicemail. And I called him again and went to voicemail.

[Maureen Maher]

As it turned out, that incredible story was an incredible lie.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Would you agree that you're the person who actually slit Mr. Alexander's throat from ear to earth?

[Jodi Arias]

Yes.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander. There is no question about it. The million dollar question is what would have forced her to do it?

[Maureen Maher]

At her trial, Jodi Arias told the world a new story.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It was Travis's continual abuse. It had reached a point of no return.

[Jodi Arias]

I grabbed the gun. He was chasing me. I turned around and I didn't even know that I shot him.

[Maureen Maher]

Weaving a tale of fear and abuse.

[Jodi Arias]

He called me a bitch and he kicked me in the ribs.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Why didn't you call the police?

[Jodi Arias]

I would have never called the police on Travis. I was loyal to him.

[Maureen Maher]

We go back to the beginning, returning to our first meetings with Jody for insight into the mind of a killer. Is it at all possible, at all possible that that day that you were together, you had a fight, you had an argument and you just had enough?

[Jodi Arias]

No, we didn't argue at all that day.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Something happened in her to trigger this tremendous amount of rage.

[Maureen Maher]

Was he ever abusive to you in any way?

[Jodi Arias]

He lost his temper a few times. I never felt my life was in danger.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

Jody gave us secrets in those interviews. She gave us an insight right into what she is thinking.

[Maureen Maher]

He had a girlfriend who he was having a relationship with, but he was still having you on the side?

[Jodi Arias]

Yeah.

[Maureen Maher]

Did you know that that relationship was.

[Jodi Arias]

No. I would have never allowed him and I to continue to behave the way we did had I known.

[Maureen Maher]

Like Casey Anthony and O.J. simpson before her, Joe Di Arias captured the attention of the country. Arias pelted these lies in the Jodi Arias trial.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Jodi Arias.

[Maureen Maher]

Jodi Arias. Looking back at these interviews, it would appear that Jody thought she could fool everyone.

[Jodi Arias]

I don't believe that I'm going to be convicted. I don't think that I'm going to spend one day in prison.

[Ryan Reynolds]

State of Arizona vs. Jodi Ann Arias.

[Maureen Maher]

But in the end, Jodi Arias could not have been more wrong.

[Ryan Reynolds]

We, the jury, do find the defendant guilty.

[Jodi Arias]

I know that people will look at me and say, oh, yeah, he really meant a lot to you, didn't he, by the way, that you just left him there. Not only that, they think that this is a fabrication and that I was the one that murdered him.

[Maureen Maher]

I'm Maureen maher. Tonight on 48 Hours, unraveling the lies of Jodi Arias.

[Jodi Arias]

I have nothing but time on my hands to think. And that's when I really began to try and remember and relive that day. And then it just gets so horrible that I shut it out and I don't want to think about it. A friend of ours is dead in his bedroom. His roommate just went in there and said, there's lots of blood.

[Maureen Maher]

It all started in 2008 when Travis Alexander was found dead in his bathroom. The first question homicide investigator Esteban Flores had was, who? When did you first hear the name Jodi Arias?

[Ryan Reynolds]

We heard that name from day one. There were certain individuals who gave us.

[Maureen Maher]

That name and said, you need to.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Look into Jodi Arias.

[Jodi Arias]

He has an ex girlfriend that's been bothering him. And.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And do you know the ex girlfriend's name?

[Maureen Maher]

Her name is Jody.

[Jodi Arias]

In the state of Arizona v. Jodi and Arias.

[Maureen Maher]

Now, four and a half years after Jodi Arias was arrested and charged with first degree murder.

[Jodi Arias]

Are we ready for the jury?

[Maureen Maher]

The question that needed to be answered.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Was why Travis Victor Alexander, an individual that was one of the greatest blessings in her life? Well, she knocked the blessings out of him by putting a bullet in his head.

[Maureen Maher]

Prosecutor Juan Martinez wasted no time exposing the jury to the brutal reality of this homicide.

[Ryan Reynolds]

There was a hallway leading off to.

[Maureen Maher]

The bathroom where the shower stall was.

[Ryan Reynolds]

That was all covered in blood. And I noticed large amounts of blood pooling and smears.

[Maureen Maher]

When I first walked through this crime scene in 2008, I was struck by the echoes of the extraordinary struggle that had taken place here. And it was the evidence of that struggle collected at the scene that spoke volumes to the jury.

[Ryan Reynolds]

107 is what. That's a photograph of the staining on the sink and some of the spatter inside of the sink running down. That is red spatter staining on the.

[Jodi Arias]

Tile floor in the bathroom.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Red staining that was on the carpet in the master bedroom. Latent print 169A was individualized as the left palm of Jodi Ann Arias. Is that the bullet?

[Jodi Arias]

Yes, it is. This is consistent with the.25 auto bullet.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Did you have Occasion to conduct a medical examination on the body of Travis Alexander. Yes.

[Maureen Maher]

One by one, Mesa county medical examiner Kevin Horn listed each of Travis Alexander's devastating wounds.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The most significant wounds are going to be the neck wound, the stab wound that penetrates the heart, and also the gunshot wound.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

She really slaughtered him. This was overkill.

[Maureen Maher]

Criminal attorney Linda Kenny Baden, who worked on the defense teams of Casey Anthony and Phil Spector, has seen more than her share of murders, but few like this.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

This showed that she was an incredibly angry young woman.

[Maureen Maher]

What piece of evidence sticks out the most in your mind?

[Linda Kenny Baden]

Well, the piece of evidence that, to me is amazing is the slit neck wound.

[Maureen Maher]

Why?

[Linda Kenny Baden]

Because it was the coup de grace, in my opinion. It was the ultimate control over him. He wasn't going to say anything bad to her ever again. To me, that was just vicious.

[Maureen Maher]

Since her arrest in yreka, California, in 2008, Jody has always insisted that she did not viciously murder Travis Alexander. But her details of how he died have changed repeatedly.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ma'am, there's a number of stories that you gave in this particular case involving the killing. There was one that you gave to Detective Flores, right?

[Jodi Arias]

Yes. He was, like, on his knees like this, doing something like this or something like. I don't know. And I was like. I was like, are you okay? What's going on? What's going on? He's like, go get help. Go get help. And I said, okay. And I turned around. There were two people there. One was a guy and one was a girl.

[Ryan Reynolds]

But then you still gave another view of what happened to 48 hours, right?

[Jodi Arias]

I think I was inconsistent in my lies, yes.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So let's take a look at what you may have said. 48 hours.

[Maureen Maher]

In the 25 years that it's been on the air, this is the first time a 48 Hours interview has been used as evidence in a death penalty trial.

[Jodi Arias]

I was hit on the back of the head. I don't think I was out very long. But when I came to, Travis was on all fours on the tile, and he was. Well, I say all fours, but one of his hands was actually holding his head.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And that's another version of the events that occurred on June 4th of 2008, correct?

[Jodi Arias]

Yes.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And they're not true.

[Jodi Arias]

Neither of them? Well, it's all the same thing. It's just different versions. Couldn't keep my life straight.

[Maureen Maher]

But Baden says that her experience with other defendants suggests that the story Jody told 48 Hours may contain elements of the truth.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

Jody gave us secrets in those interviews. She gave us an insight right into what she is thinking.

[Jodi Arias]

She was in the bathroom standing over Travis, and I charged her.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

She talks about having a fight with the woman, and she describes the woman who attacked Travis as being about her height and Caucasian. Well, that's her.

[Jodi Arias]

I ran down that hall and I pushed her as hard as I could, and she fell over him.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

She then talks about power later on in that interview, and she talks about having a gun.

[Jodi Arias]

They just kept arguing back and forth whether or not to kill me.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

And if somebody has a gun to your head, you have the ultimate power.

[Jodi Arias]

It's like everything just stops when you. When someone else is sitting there with a gun pointed to your head to stop.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

So I think that a lot of what she was saying about what happened was what happened with her and Travis the day he died.

[Maureen Maher]

Jody's various stories aside, the prosecution says there are critical pieces of evidence that speak for themselves.

[Ryan Reynolds]

These are accidental photographs. These are photographs that the killer did not want. Take it.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

Jody, when she did the interview, she at one point said she likes to document everything.

[Jodi Arias]

I've always had my camera, always. So it goes everywhere I go.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

So it's kind of amazing that she actually documented herself committing this murder.

[Ryan Reynolds]

This individual's here. You see her foot. You see Mr. Alexander's head, you see his arm, you see him bleeding profusely.

[Maureen Maher]

After nine days and 20 witnesses, Martinez believed his case against Jodi Arias was ironclad.

[Jodi Arias]

The state may call its next witness.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The state rests.

[Maureen Maher]

Now, despite all the lies and deceitful behavior that the court has heard.

[Jodi Arias]

I wouldn't hurt Travis. He's done so much for me.

[Maureen Maher]

The defense will have to convince the jury that on the day Travis died, it was actually Jodi Arias who was the victim.

[Jodi Arias]

Travis flipped out and he stepped out of the shower, and he picked me up and he body slammed me again on the tile.

[Maureen Maher]

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[Jodi Arias]

Night the stars are brightly shining. It is the night.

[Maureen Maher]

Even in jail awaiting trial, Jodi Arias had little trouble keeping herself in the spotlight and caught the attention of the media when she won a jailhouse Christmas singing competition.

[Jodi Arias]

Well, I appreciate your vote. Thank you very much.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The defense calls Jody Arias.

[Jodi Arias]

Arias, please stand to be sworn.

[Maureen Maher]

And when the defense finally presented its case, Jody took the spotlight again, taking the stand to tell her unbelievable story of self defense. Among those listening were Jody's mother, her aunt, and Travis's family.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4, 2008?

[Jodi Arias]

Yes, I did.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Why?

[Jodi Arias]

The simple answer is that he attacked me and I defended myself.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

The biggest hurdle is Jody herself.

[Maureen Maher]

According to trial lawyer Linda Kenny Baden, putting a defendant like Jodi Arias on the stand can be extremely problematic because.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

Then the case only becomes about the client and what she said. And that jury is always going to go back to what Jody said.

[Jodi Arias]

Ms. Arias, you are still under oath. Do you understand? Yes.

[Maureen Maher]

And what Jody had to say was shocking.

[Jodi Arias]

I'm taking pictures of him. We were trying out different poses, and when I went to delete the photos, as I moved the camera, it slipped out of my hand.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So what happens after you drop the camera?

[Jodi Arias]

Travis flipped out and he stepped out of the shower and he lifted me up and he body slammed me again on the tile. I remembered where he kept a gun, so I grabbed it. He was chasing me. I turned around. We were in the middle of the bathroom. I pointed it at him with both of my hands. I thought that would stop him, but he just kept running. I didn't even think I was holding the trigger. I just was pointing it at him. And I didn't even know that I shot him. It just went off. And after I broke away from, he said, kill you, bitch.

[Maureen Maher]

Jody's memory of how Travis allegedly attacked her was striking, and yet she was at a loss for words when asked to explain her actions.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Once you broke away from him, what do you remember?

[Jodi Arias]

Almost nothing.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Do you remember stabbing Travis Alexander?

[Jodi Arias]

I have no memory of stabbing him.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Do you remember dragging him across the floor?

[Jodi Arias]

Oh, and I just remember screaming. I don't remember anything after that.

[Ryan Reynolds]

But there are many people that never remember the actual events.

[Maureen Maher]

To help the jury understand why Jody had trouble remembering, the defense called Dr. Richard Samuels, a clinical psychologist who tested Jodi for PTSD, her scores on the.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder Scale confirmed the presence of ptsd, right? Yes.

[Maureen Maher]

Samuels concluded that Jody suffered amnesia from the trauma of the attack.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And it's clear from the research that a large percentage of individuals who are in such settings do not remember or have cloudy and foggy memories of what has transpired. How many hours did you spend with her? Between 25 and 30 hours.

[Maureen Maher]

But the prosecution insisted that Samuel's diagnosis was flawed because when he examined Jody three years ago, she still maintained the intruder story.

[Ryan Reynolds]

You confirmed the presence of ptsd, even though you just now told us that this is based on a lie. Perhaps I should have readministered that test. Altered mental states, which are of such magnitude that a person has little or no awareness of their behavior, are very, very uncommon.

[Maureen Maher]

Dr. Stuart Kleiman is a forensic psychiatrist and consultant for 48 hours.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So it's very reasonable to conclude this person acted out their rage and told lies about it afterwards.

[Maureen Maher]

Jodi Arias claims she not only has no memory of stabbing Travis more than two dozen times and slitting his throat, but she also has no memory of altering the scene. It wasn't until after driving hundreds of miles into the desert that her mental fog apparently lifted, and she suddenly realized she had done something horrible, horribly wrong.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Did you believe he was alive?

[Jodi Arias]

I didn't know, but I didn't think he was. I was scared, and I couldn't imagine calling 911 and telling them what I had just done.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

If someone after a crime engages in.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Behavior which suggests an effort to cover a, then that would not be consistent with amnesia.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

If you didn't remember what had happened, what's the need to cover up something?

[Ryan Reynolds]

You did grant interviews to people from 48 hours, didn't you?

[Jodi Arias]

Yes.

[Ryan Reynolds]

There were two interviews, right?

[Jodi Arias]

Yes.

[Maureen Maher]

Martinez hoped that by exposing Jody as a liar, he would discredit her with the jury and once again presented clips from Jody's 48 Hours interviews.

[Jodi Arias]

Travis family deserves to know what happened. And because I may be the only person that will ever be able to say what happened that day, I wrote them a letter.

[Ryan Reynolds]

In that letter, you actually tell the family that the people that did it were this male and this female, right?

[Jodi Arias]

Yes.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So you lied to them, didn't you?

[Jodi Arias]

Yes. When you asked me if I was angry or outraged, I'm more angry and outraged that his life was taken and that he had so much potential. I know that I'm innocent. And even though this is a very serious thing to be charged with, there's no reason for me to Be sad, because I know that I'm not. I'd never hurt Travis. I did see Travis the day that he passed away, and a lot of things happened that day. I almost lost my life as well.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Nowhere in that recitation or in any of the interviews that you gave with 48 hours did you ever indicate that you had memory loss, Correct?

[Jodi Arias]

That's correct. I have faith that in the end, everything will be made known, everything will come out. And in the meantime, smile. Say cheese.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It takes a certain kind of person with great chutzpah to go on national television and tell a big lie to the entire world.

[Jodi Arias]

Am I allowed to tell you what I'm trying to say?

[Maureen Maher]

And Jody displayed that same tenacity during her 18 days on the witness stand.

[Ryan Reynolds]

You say that you have memory problems, but it depends on the circumstance, right?

[Jodi Arias]

That's right.

[Ryan Reynolds]

What factors influence your having a memory problem?

[Jodi Arias]

Usually when men like you are screaming at me or grilling me or someone like Travis doing the same.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So that affects your.

[Maureen Maher]

Throughout the heated cross cross examination, Martinez vigorously attacked Jody's story.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ma'am, were you crying when you were shooting him?

[Jodi Arias]

I don't remember.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Were you crying when you were stabbing him?

[Jodi Arias]

I don't remember.

[Ryan Reynolds]

How about when you cut his throat? Were you crying then?

[Jodi Arias]

I don't know.

[Maureen Maher]

But to save their client's life, the defense tried to destroy the only thing left of Travis Alexander. His reputation.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The instances of violence were becoming more frequent and more severe. Fear, love, sex, lies, and dirty little secrets will help you understand, I think what happened in those three minutes. Jody's life was in danger.

[Jodi Arias]

She would either live or. Or she would die.

[Maureen Maher]

For the entire time that Jodi Arias fate hung in the balance in court. Her defense was on a mission to save her life.

[Jodi Arias]

Jody had to make a choice by.

[Maureen Maher]

Proving Travis left Jody no choice but to defend herself.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The million dollar question is what would have forced her to do it?

[Maureen Maher]

Jody's answer, an accusation of her own.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It was Travis's continual abuse.

[Jodi Arias]

And on June 4th of 2008, it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Had reached a point of no return.

[Maureen Maher]

Jody now claimed there was a dark side to Travis and that she lied to cover up the truth about domestic abuse and their relationship.

[Jodi Arias]

Her fear and her panic about what.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Had happened led her to tell different stories. He threatened to kill her. And given her experience with him, she had no reason to not believe him.

[Maureen Maher]

It was a challenging defense, one that in addition to her story of intruders, Jody may have been considering when she spoke with 48 hours just after her arrest. Was he ever abusive? To you in any way?

[Jodi Arias]

He lost his temper a few times, and it wasn't anything that really required me to. That I felt. I never felt my life was in danger, I'll say that.

[Maureen Maher]

Did you show the physical signs of it?

[Jodi Arias]

Yes, but I was able to hide it pretty well, I think. Arms, arms, legs, torso.

[Maureen Maher]

But Jody testified to several incidents of alleged abuse.

[Jodi Arias]

And he body slammed me on the floor at the foot of his bed. He called me a bitch, and he kicked me in the ribs. He went to kick me again, and I put my hand out and it clipped my hand and hit my finger.

[Maureen Maher]

Defense attorney Kirk Nurmi even had Jodi display her injuries to the jury.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Could you hold up your hand for us so we could see? Why did you call the police?

[Jodi Arias]

I would have never called the police. On Travis.

[Maureen Maher]

There is no record of Jody reporting this abuse. And his friends Chris and Sky Hughes say that is not the Travis they knew. We've never, ever seen any evidence of abuse.

[Ryan Reynolds]

They couldn't find one human other than.

[Maureen Maher]

Jody, who we know was a liar.

[Ryan Reynolds]

They couldn't find one person that had a story of being abused by Travis. She's making it up as she's going along.

[Maureen Maher]

And they say Jody's most appalling lie came next.

[Jodi Arias]

I walked in, and Travis started grabbing at something on the bed. It was a photograph.

[Ryan Reynolds]

What was the photograph of?

[Jodi Arias]

It was a picture of a little boy. He was dressed in underwear. He. He seemed very ashamed with himself.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She's saying this whole time she knew he was a pedophile. They're just lies. You saw him do that. That's a lie, isn't it, ma'am?

[Jodi Arias]

I wish it was a lie.

[Maureen Maher]

Prosecutor Martinez wasn't buying it either.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It is a hateful allegation with nothing to support it. It's so easy for her to make these allegations. It's so easy for her to get on the witness stand, as you've seen online. And this is really the pinnacle.

[Maureen Maher]

Trial attorney Linda Kenny Baden says if the defense could not prove Jody's allegations, they would come back to.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

To say that she was physically abused and she was fighting for her life that day, and that's why she had to kill him. That's just going to get the jury angry.

[Jodi Arias]

And do you believe in your expert opinion that Jody was a battered woman.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Or is a battered woman? Yes, I do.

[Maureen Maher]

To convince jurors that Jody was a battered woman, her attorney, Jennifer Wilmot, called domestic violence expert Alice La Violette, who testified for several days.

[Ryan Reynolds]

How would you characterize their relationship at.

[Jodi Arias]

This Point in time, Given your expertise.

[Ryan Reynolds]

In the area, I would call it a domestically abusive relationship.

[Maureen Maher]

La Violette testified that Jody and Travis relationship was abusive, both verbally.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Does he call her names like bitch? Yes. And calling her a whore? Yes.

[Maureen Maher]

And physically, he grabbed her by the.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Shoulders, threw her to the ground, and then told her she wasn't leaving. And when she hits the floor, she makes a sound and he says, basically, don't act like that hurts. Bitch.

[Maureen Maher]

As a defense attorney, how would you use this relationship between the two of them?

[Linda Kenny Baden]

You can't go after a victim. Going after a victim in a courtroom, you might as well just turn in your license, really. So you have to be able to be very soft with regard to Travis here.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Do you feel a need?

[Maureen Maher]

The prosecutor was anything but soft during heated cross examination.

[Ryan Reynolds]

You actually are biased in favor of the defendant, aren't you? I don't believe I'm biased. You're mischaracterizing what I do, Mr. Martinez. One of the questions here is, why is it that you felt the need to coddle her? Mr. Martinez, are you angry at me, ma'am? Is that relevant to you? Is that important to you? Does that make any difference to your evaluation, whether or not the prosecutor's angry? Yes or no? If you were in my group, I would ask you to take a time out, Mr. Martinez.

[Maureen Maher]

More layers of arias complicated psyche were peeled away when the state called its expert witness, Dr. Janine Demarte.

[Jodi Arias]

This reporting of domestic violence has changed over time, frequently. My opinion is that there did not appear to be significant abuse.

[Maureen Maher]

Demarte also dismissed defense claims that Jodi suffered memory loss from post traumatic stress.

[Jodi Arias]

She indicated to me that she had a very large gap in her memory. That's not how it typically presents with traumatic memories.

[Maureen Maher]

Instead, Demarte testified that tests she administered suggest Jodi may have a borderline personality disorder.

[Jodi Arias]

You could see it in her journal entries that went from happy to sad very quickly. There is some indication that she has some anger problems, that she had some strong feelings of anger internally.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She couldn't let him go. Even from Yreka, she couldn't let him go.

[Maureen Maher]

The prosecutor said Jody's desire to be with Travis had no bounds and she would stop at nothing to get what she wanted.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Her motivation for this was that she just wanted him.

[Maureen Maher]

You don't think she could have just snapped?

[Linda Kenny Baden]

No. This was a buildup that led to her ultimately making a decision in a.

[Maureen Maher]

Passionate way by continuing to have sex with Jody on and off for at least nine months after they broke up. Baden says Travis may have unknowingly sent Jody mixed signals.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

He really didn't know and probably didn't care because when you're young and you're having sex the way Jody made it very easy for him and he didn't realize that he had this rattlesnake by the neck, whatever he did fed into her craziness, fed into her insanity, fed into her desire that she wanted him and she wanted to control him and she wanted to have a life with him. It was the perfect storm that something had to happen.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She had a vision that they were.

[Maureen Maher]

Going to get married, and from that.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Point she would not let that go.

[Maureen Maher]

And she would not let Travis go.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Jody could not deal with the rejection.

[Maureen Maher]

Lots of people told Jody to move.

[Ryan Reynolds]

On, and she said, I can't. He'd be the most amazing husband. I can't picture anyone else being the father of my children. She was obsessed.

[Maureen Maher]

Dr. Stuart Kleinman says obsession can have dangerous consequences.

[Ryan Reynolds]

If a person has an intense need.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

For something and a clear, consistent boundary.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Is put up by another individual, that will probably help both of those individuals and ultimately, if that need is never going to really be satisfied, create an.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

Intense level of rage. Was sex a tool for Jodi? Of course it was. But was Travis playing with fire? Absolutely. Sixteen years from today, Greg Gerstner will.

[Maureen Maher]

Finally land the perfect cannonball epic splash Unsuspecting friends a work of art only possible because Greg is already making meeting all these same people at AARP volunteer and community events that keep him active and involved and help make sure his happiness lives as long as he does. That's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP. Learn more at aarp.org local.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Hey, it's.

[Jodi Arias]

Morgan Absher and I'm Kayla Moore and.

[Maureen Maher]

We'Re the hosts of the Crime House original podcast Clues.

[Jodi Arias]

Every Wednesday, we sneak past the crime scene tape and open a new case file for some of the most gripping true crime cases.

[Maureen Maher]

While Kaelyn pieces together the timelines and breaks down the hard facts of these cases, I'll be diving into the theories and pulling at the threads that may or may not add up.

[Jodi Arias]

From serial killers to shocking murders, Clues.

[Maureen Maher]

Dives into all the forensic details and.

[Jodi Arias]

Brilliant sleuthing that went into the world's most infamous cases.

[Maureen Maher]

These clues shine a light on stories that have been waiting, sometimes for decades, to finally be heard. So join us as we open a case and uncover the breakthroughs, the heartbreak, and the relentless pursuit of answers behind these unforgettable investigations. Follow and listen to Clues An Odyssey.

[Jodi Arias]

Podcast in Partnership with Crime House. Available now on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maureen Maher]

For the families of Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander, enduring the trial was a trial in itself.

[Ryan Reynolds]

What are we looking at here? That's a shower stall with the body crammed down on the bottom of it.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

Oh, it's very, very hard. I mean, they're never going to get over this trial.

[Maureen Maher]

Attorney Linda Kenny Baden knows the price both families paid.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

Just as much as Travis lost his life, there's going to be parts of that family that have died in the process.

[Jodi Arias]

It's just horrible, horrible thing. Happened to the best person.

[Maureen Maher]

It was an unthinkable crime, as Travis's siblings, Samantha and Steven told us in 2008.

[Jodi Arias]

And you would never in a million years think that that would happen to Travis, because things like this don't happen to people like Travis.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And you're the one that did this, right?

[Jodi Arias]

Yes.

[Maureen Maher]

The family of Jodiarius has had to endure their own torment. First watching as she was cast as a cold blooded killer.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And you would acknowledge that a lot of the stabbed ones were to the back of the head and to the back of the torso, Correct?

[Jodi Arias]

Okay, I'll count them. I don't know.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Just take your word for it.

[Maureen Maher]

And then hearing Jody tell the world that she has been abused her entire life.

[Ryan Reynolds]

You told us that your dad hit you with the belt.

[Jodi Arias]

Yes.

[Ryan Reynolds]

After age 7?

[Jodi Arias]

Yes.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Did he leave welts?

[Jodi Arias]

He didn't leave welts as often as my mom. She also used a belt. My dad was very intimidating, so I don't think he needed to hit us quite as hard to get the point across. My mom didn't carry that fear factor with her, so I think she used more force.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She's lying. She's making it all up. And she staged her defense by lies.

[Maureen Maher]

Do you think jurors are impacted by family who are in the courtroom, their reaction to, say, crime scene photos or even testimony by the defendant?

[Ryan Reynolds]

I think they are, but then they do a very good job of compartmentalizing it.

[Maureen Maher]

Jury expert Richard Gabriel, who has worked with the defense teams for Casey Anthony and O.J. simpson, says jurors are able to separate themselves from courtroom drama.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Does it impact them when they hear sobs in the galley? Yes, they absolutely hear that, but they do a pretty good job of trying to divorce themselves from that.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

The jury's not going to feel sorry for Jody. They can only feel sorry for her family and hope that the sorrow they feel for her family is more merciful than what she felt for Travis.

[Maureen Maher]

And during her 18 days on the stand, Baden says Jody thought she could win the mercy of the jury.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

Some defendants are manipulative and they think. They think they can manipulate the police and they also then think they can manipulate the courtroom. And that's the problem. You can't manipulate everybody.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Her being on the stand for so long was just disgusting.

[Maureen Maher]

Travis friends Chris and Sky Hughes believe Jodie relished her months in the spotlight. She enjoyed it. You know, she enjoyed every moment of it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She enjoyed the attention.

[Maureen Maher]

She enjoyed toying with people. She enjoyed you know, looking over and making up these just disgusting stories for the jury. Jody may have felt there was no question she would be found innocent, but the jurors had some questions of their own. Over 200 questions read by the judge. How could you kiss another man when you knew what you just did to Travis? Arizona is only one of three states that allows jurors to ask questions. Why were you afraid of the consequences if you killed Travis in self defense? You said that one of your worst fears was for everyone to find out what was going on in your relationship.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So why did you talk to 48.

[Jodi Arias]

Hours than other TV stations?

[Linda Kenny Baden]

I thought that the jurors in this case asked better questions than the prosecutor of defense.

[Maureen Maher]

Many times Baden says those jury questions were telling.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

They really got to the heart of the matter.

[Ryan Reynolds]

After all the lies you have told.

[Jodi Arias]

Why should we believe you now? The lies that I've told in this case can be tied directly back to either protecting Travis's reputation or my involvement in his death.

[Maureen Maher]

In the end, both sides agreed. It came down to one. Do you believe Jodi Arias?

[Ryan Reynolds]

She premeditated it. You now have a duty. You are to reach a decision as to whether or not the defendant committed first degree murder. So what I'm saying to you, ladies and gentlemen, is Ultimately, if Ms. Arias is guilty of any crime at all, it is the crime of manslaughter and nothing more.

[Maureen Maher]

But for the family and friends of Travis Alexander, there was no debate. And there never had been. There was only one verdict, one punishment appropriate for Jodi Arias. I want the maximum that the law will allow.

[Jodi Arias]

Ultimately, I think, I really hope that she gets the death penalty.

[Maureen Maher]

Justice and what it would finally look like would depend on just which Jodi Arias the jury in this tense Phoenix courtroom ultimately bought into.

[Linda Kenny Baden]

She does seem to adapt, which is why I think she. She's like a praying mantis here is that she is a chameleon.

[Maureen Maher]

Jody's a manipulator, and that's what she does. Through 18 days of her testimony, the world had witnessed the many faces of Jodi Arias.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She's always reading the environment, right?

[Maureen Maher]

Trying to determine how she's supposed to act.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She's always trying to be something that she's not. Right?

[Maureen Maher]

When I see Jodi Arias, I just feel utter disgust. Like she's not human, you know, she.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Doesn'T feel like normal people feel. And she's over here.

[Maureen Maher]

So for Travis Alexander's loved ones, Jodi Arias is nothing but a fake.

[Jodi Arias]

Don't be fooled by Jodi's sweet demeanor. She's a liar and she's evil.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And.

[Jodi Arias]

She deserves to be judged and convicted. Who do you think killed him? I have no idea.

[Maureen Maher]

The stories told by the 32 year old California waitress were consistent with just one thing. A defendant who lied from the start.

[Jodi Arias]

Nothing but the truth. Still, my mom began to carry a.

[Maureen Maher]

Wooden spoon in her purse to family.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Were you at Travis's house?

[Maureen Maher]

To the police?

[Jodi Arias]

Absolutely not.

[Maureen Maher]

And to 48 hours. How do you feel about being accused of this crime?

[Jodi Arias]

I know that I won't be held accountable for killing him because I had nothing to do with that. I had everything to lose and nothing to gain if I were to kill Travis.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Okay, I'm gonna get those off you.

[Maureen Maher]

It seems like a lifetime ago.

[Jodi Arias]

I didn't kill Travis.

[Maureen Maher]

But it was only four years.

[Jodi Arias]

If a conviction happens, I know that I won't be the first person to be wrongly convicted and possibly wrongly sentenced for either life in prison or the death penalty.

[Maureen Maher]

Then that story evaporated in the Arizona desert. What was left was an admission.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And that's when you shot him in the face, right?

[Jodi Arias]

Yeah.

[Maureen Maher]

That's when the gun went off and an excuse.

[Jodi Arias]

And he's just screaming angry. It had already almost killed me.

[Ryan Reynolds]

We are so very thankful for the opportunity to gather here as friends.

[Maureen Maher]

Travis for those who loved him. Travis.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Jesus. Justice for Travis.

[Maureen Maher]

The thought that Travis Alexander somehow had it coming to him was the final crime against a murdered man. She slaughtered him on June 4th. And then she has slaughtered him every.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Day for the last five years with the lies that she's told.

[Maureen Maher]

After three days of deliberations, there was a verdict.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The State of Arizona versus Jodiann Arias. Verdict. Count one. We the jury, duly empanelled and sworn and the above entitled action upon our oaths, do find the defendant as to count one, first degree murder.

[Maureen Maher]

Guilty. Guilty of first degree murder. The highest charge the jury had. The death penalty was now on the table. Jodiaria seemed shocked, holding back tears of sadness while Travis's family could not hold back their tears of joy.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I'd rather have Travis Alexander back, you know, I'd rather have my buddy back, but we can't have him back. So I'm as happy as I can be, given the circumstances.

[Maureen Maher]

A week after the verdict, the sentencing phase begins, with the prosecutor trying to convince the jury Joe Darius deserves death.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And the last thing that Mr. Alexander felt was this knife coming towards him.

[Maureen Maher]

The first decision comes quickly. The jury rules. The murder was especially cruel, clearing the way for the penalty phase.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Is this your true verdict? So say you want it all. Yes.

[Maureen Maher]

The jury heard from those who love Travis Alexander. His brother Stephen.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Why him? Unfortunately, I won't ever get the answers to most of my questions. Questions like how much did he suffer?

[Maureen Maher]

His sister, Samantha.

[Jodi Arias]

Travis was not shy. He was full of life.

[Maureen Maher]

And the jury heard from the defense that Arias would testify one more time.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And talk to you about how she viewed her life.

[Maureen Maher]

That should be next week, when we may also find out whether Jodi Arias lives in this Arizona prison for a minimum of 25 years or dies here four years ago. She seemed to sense her fate.

[Jodi Arias]

If I had my choice, I would take the death penalty because I don't want to spend the rest of my life in prison.

[Maureen Maher]

And after her guilty verdict, Aria seemed almost wistful and talking to a local reporter.

[Jodi Arias]

I believe death is the ultimate freedom, so I'd rather just have my freedom as soon as I can get it.

[Maureen Maher]

Freedom wasn't an option for Travis Alexander. He was home in Riverside, California, his image silent and cold, carved in stone. And soon we'll see if Jodi Arias gets her wish. Joining three other women on Arizona's death row and perhaps making one final headline, becoming the first woman executed in that state since 1930. Jody Arias was sentenced to life in prison without parole.