Afroman Interview

Summary

5CAST w/ Andrew Callaghan: Afroman Interview – Episode Summary

Date: April 8, 2026
Host: Andrew Callaghan
Guest: Afroman (Joseph Edgar Foreman)

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Overview:

This episode of 5CAST features a sprawling, unfiltered, and deeply personal conversation between Andrew Callaghan and Afroman. The main thread weaves through Afroman’s recent high-profile legal battle with the Adams County Sheriff’s Department following their raid on his Ohio home, a saga that ultimately became a rallying point for First Amendment rights and police accountability. The conversation journeys through Afroman's upbringing, views on race and American society, origins as a viral rapper, philosophies on marriage and freedom, and his unique sense of humor and self-reinvention.

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Main Themes:

• The Adams County police raid and lawsuit saga
• The value and boundaries of freedom of speech
• Racism in America: LA vs. the South
• Upbringing, gangs, and migration stories
• Viral fame and the mechanics of “Because I Got High”
• Music, masculinity, and self-definition
• Police, the justice system, and accountability
• Race, community, and building new models

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Key Discussion Points & Insights:

1. The Police Raid, Diss Tracks, and the Court Battle

• Background: In 2022, Adams County sheriffs raided Afroman’s Ohio home on false allegations of narcotics and kidnapping. The incident became public when Afroman turned security footage of the raid into viral diss songs directly naming and mocking officers.

• Creative Retaliation: Afroman’s approach was to publicize the incident with music and video, leading to renewed fame and a surge in support for police accountability.

• Legal Battle: Sheriffs sued Afroman for alleged privacy violations and defamation; after years of litigation, the court sided with Afroman, affirming his rights under the First Amendment.

  “How can you take me to court when you stole my money? … I feel like I won because I was telling the truth.”
  – Afroman [06:00]

  “We did it, America. Yeah, we did it. Freedom of speech. Right on. Right on. … God bless America.”
  – Afroman [05:04]

• Strategy for the Powerless: Advice for others to counter police abuse with evidence and public pressure, not just legal avenues.

  “If you don’t got no money for a lawyer, you get you some damn good videotape footage…”
  – Afroman [08:18]

2. Freedom of Speech: Principle and Practice

• Afroman frames his fight through the lens of free speech: honesty as a shield against defamation and government overreach.

• He rails against selective enforcement and double standards, noting law enforcement’s protection of overtly hateful groups’ rights while seeking to curb his.

  “Don’t give the Nazis freedom of speech and tell me I can't say nothing. Let's all have freedom of speech at the same time. That's all I'm saying. Be fair with the freedom of speech.”
  – Afroman [14:10]

3. Upbringing: Migration, Gangs, LA vs. the South

• Family migrated from Texas/Alabama to LA amid the “Black flight.”

• Describes the differences in racism: “classy” Southern racism vs. unapologetic West Coast bigotry.

  “California had more unapologetic racism. Mississippi had traditional, understandable racism … It's not as rude.”
  – Afroman [21:49]

• Gangs and school violence were everyday realities, leading his father to move the family to Palmdale to escape cycles of danger.

• Observations on segregation in LA and the cycles of white flight and gentrification.

4. Rebellion, Humor, and Music as Survival

• Early creative victories: “Harry Cary” rap in school targeted a bully through wit, not violence, setting the tone for his later approach with law enforcement.

• Rebranding insult into identity: The “Afroman” moniker was originally an insult he transformed into a brand.

  “I couldn't fight gravity. I was like, all right, Afro Man. I started, and it started working.”
  – Afroman [33:00]

5. Culture, Race, and Appropriation

• Discusses the history and consequences of the N-word, why he avoids it, and how hip-hop’s popularity allowed for widespread appropriation.

  “I don't feel black people should disrespect the home team, you know? … I don't think black people should call themselves that.”
  – Afroman [44:21]

6. “Because I Got High” and Early Viral Fame

• Chronicles how “Because I Got High” became the first hip-hop “viral” hit, spread via Napster, coining the term "viral" in music.

  “They had to invent the word viral to explain what my song had did through the computer.”
  – Afroman [52:22]

• Explains how giving away CDs at a rave led to global recognition and a life-changing major label signing.

7. Reflections on Family, Marriage, and Gender

• Offers personal philosophies on relationships, grounded by his parents’ divorce and his own experiences.

• Draws parallels between household dynamics and business partnerships, but is critical of contemporary marriage systems.

  “My parents’ breakup ... I was basically through with school. … There's no college for rappers.”
  – Afroman [39:22]

  “If you like me, you like me. You gonna be where you want to be … marriage to me is me and a young lady wanting to be with each other. And that can stop anytime.”
  – Afroman [75:40]

8. Police, Corruption, and the Courtroom

• Exposes the pettiness, unaccountability, and hypocrisy he observed among local law enforcement and the judiciary.

• Insists that his victory, in a conservative jurisdiction, affirms the power of truth.

  “I realized they was bullying me, so I bullied them back … and bullies are usually the biggest wimps.”
  – Afroman [97:14]

9. Community Building, Segregation, and “Micronations”

• Fantasizes about building a new intentional community for black Americans—one free from self-hatred and old traumas.

  “All the black people that don’t like using the N-word ... I would set up a nation for them ... I would exclude the self-proclaimed n****r.”
  – Afroman [61:50]

• Advocates for environments where communities can be themselves, with “neutral zones” in public, but respecting difference in private.

10. Reflections on Justice, Parenting, and Having the Last Word

• Proud of showing his children how to stand up through evidence and nonviolent means.

• His legal victory, in his eyes, restores hope—not just for himself, but as an example for others.

  “You obey the law, install your cameras, know your rights, know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.”
  – Afroman [118:47]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | [02:18] | “When you make a spectacle out of them and people laugh, they can't take it. They can't take it. We gotta take it. Every day. Every American citizen gotta take it... They can't take it.” | Afroman | | [08:38] | “You don't need no money with the truth. When you've done all you can do to stand, you stand and you yell it out.” | Afroman | | [14:10] | “Don't give the Nazis freedom of speech and tell me I can't say nothing. Let's all have freedom of speech at the same time.” | Afroman | | [21:49] | “California had more unapologetic racism. Mississippi had a traditional, understandable racism... It's not as rude.” | Afroman | | [25:34] | “Black people wasn’t brought to America for America to be beneficial to black people...” | Afroman | | [33:00] | “I couldn't fight gravity. I was like, all right, Afro Man. I started, and it started working.” | Afroman | | [52:22] | “They had to invent the word viral to explain what my song had did through the computer.” | Afroman | | [75:40] | “Marriage to me is me and a young lady wanting to be with each other. And that can stop anytime.” | Afroman | | [97:14] | “I realized they was bullying me, so I bullied them back. And come to find out they are some bullies. And bullies are usually the biggest wimps.” | Afroman | | [118:47] | “You know, I showed them how to handle the police. Obey the law, install your cameras, know your rights, know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.” | Afroman |

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Structure & Important Segments

Police Raid Incident: The Story, The Songs, The Lawsuit

• [02:32 – 09:13]: Intro of incident, background on Afroman, and initial legal response.
• [87:31 – 116:44]: Courtroom experiences, legal loopholes, and racist overtones in trial/jury dynamics.

Upbringing, Identity & Racism

• [15:43 – 25:34]: Family background, migration, LA/South, racism.
• [21:11 – 24:03]: Contrasting racism in LA and Mississippi.

Music, Fame, Viral Moments

• [52:22 – 54:39]: “Because I Got High”, Napster, viral spread.
• [81:10 – 84:54]: Touring, small-town performances, relationship to mainstream fame.

Social Commentary: Race, Speech, and Community

• [44:21 – 50:19]: Avoiding the N-word and the broader cultural fallout.
• [61:50 – 68:34]: Micronations, intentional communities, and dreams of self-sufficient black enclaves.

Reflections on Principles & Parenting

• [75:40 – 80:45]: Marriage, love, and relationship wisdom.
• [118:02 – 119:07]: On fatherhood, raising proud, self-loving Black children.

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Tone & Style

Afroman’s signature is irreverent, playful, stoner humor, but the episode also features moments of sharp cultural commentary, righteous anger, and vulnerable honesty. Andrew Callaghan keeps the interview moving with curiosity, respect, and opportunities for both therapy and comedy.

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Conclusion

This episode of 5CAST offers a potent blend of political commentary, personal memoir, hip-hop history, and social critique, all delivered in the raw, comedic, and philosophical voice of Afroman. Listeners walk away with not only the details of the famous police raid and resulting lawsuit, but also with a blueprint for turning adversity into art and leveraging humor and authenticity as tools for survival and resistance.

Transcript

[Afroman]

Officer Sean Cooley is Officer Pound Cake. He's the biggest star out of all of them. I don't know. I think Lisa took his place. Lisa's down on the totem pole. Randy's number one. Randy's the man.

[Andrew Callahan]

Officer Randy Walters, his name is.

[Afroman]

Run the stop sign. Wreck it, Randy. We're not required to do that. Walters, that's his name? Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

And what can you tell us about him?

[Afroman]

He's the guy that inspired me to make music about the whole situation. Randy Walters is the son of a bitch. The worst thing I said was, Randy Walters is a son of a bitch. That's why I his wife and got filthy rich. But I said that to Randy Walters. I didn't say that to the police department. He's the guy that pissed me off and cracked a smile. He thought it was funny that my door was on the floor.

[Andrew Callahan]

So he was the most pompous douchebag of them all.

[Afroman]

No. After I started watching the body cam footage at my house village, Brian Newlin was like a human snake. All of this came from him. He rammed the door. He kicked the door in. He was reading my bank statements. He wanted in my safe, and he always stayed. He didn't want to be on no FaceTime with me. He was trying to get me. He didn't want me to put a face to him. You know what I'm saying? He was a real. I got more respect for Randy Walters

[Andrew Callahan]

than Brian Newell, who disconnected the surveillance cameras.

[Afroman]

Lisa.

[Andrew Callahan]

What's her nickname?

[Afroman]

Lick Em Low Lisa Full of Shit Phillips. Lick Em Low Lisa. Lick Em Low Lisa.

[Andrew Callahan]

What makes her Lick him low?

[Afroman]

I was just mad at them all for.

[Andrew Callahan]

But I mean, like, what's the inspiration for the nickname?

[Afroman]

I like to keep the same consonant going, so. So her name was Lisa. So my brain just took off in the L section. I was like, lisa. Lick Em Lo Lisa. I got the triple up cuh. Three names for the set. Lick Em Lo Lisa. And then her name was Phillips. So I was like, lick Em Lo Lisa. Full of shit Phillips. We from la. We used to call it bagging the homies bag all the time. It's like breathing. It ain't nothing. Oh, look at you, big basketball headphones. Look at this motherfucker. You don't want to bag with me. I come from the best, you know. So I just started capping on her. Easy, you know, it was just play. No, we some marines, man. We some, you know, we some vets. Our play is violent to them. It's like some lion kittens. Playing with an actual cat. They might heard him playing with him like, hey buddy, what's the matter? Why you so sensitive?

[Andrew Callahan]

I think the mouthpiece just overpowers their ability to even process what's going on.

[Afroman]

No, when you make a spectacle out of them and people laugh, they can't take it. They can't take it. We gotta take it. Every day. Every American citizen gotta take it. Get pulled over by the cops, wrote a ticket, motherfuckers smack. You take it, we take it. They can't take it.

[Andrew Callahan]

Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Andrew Callahan and you're watching a Channel 5 exclusive interview. Today we're going to be talking to Afroman, real name Joseph Edgar Foreman, a laid back, stoner based and often comedic rapper and performer who first blew up in 1998 out of Palmdale, California, a high desert town just a stone's throw from LA. His breakout hits included Crazy Rap, aka Colt 45 and 2 Zigzags. And also because I Got High, Because I Got High, Because I Got High. Two quintessential stoner anthems that defined cannabis culture around the turn of the millennium. Since then, he's released a steady stream of music and has maintained a small, albeit dedicated, fan base. He'd have another explosion in popularity around 2022 that nearly rivaled his breakout decades prior. This came after he dropped the diss song titled Will youl Help Me Repair My Door?

[Afroman]

Will you help me Repair My Gate? Will you help me Repair My Door?

[Andrew Callahan]

Which was basically a diss to the cops, directly naming the Adams county sheriffs who'd raided his Ohio home at gunpoint based upon a questionable warrant that implicated Afroman and narcotics trafficking and kidnapping.

[Afroman]

The warrants said narcotics and kidnapping.

[Andrew Callahan]

In the process, the sheriffs broke down his door, destroyed his gate, disconnected his security cameras, pointed semi automatic weapons at his young children. And one sheriff, who Afroman calls Officer Pound Cake, appeared to come within an inch of scarfing down what was left on the kitchen counter.

[Afroman]

Mama's lemon pound cake. It tastes so nice it made the sheriff wanna put down his gu and cut him a slide. Of what? Of what? Lemon pound cake.

[Andrew Callahan]

Despite finding no evidence of narcotics or kidnapping during the raid, Adams county sheriffs refused to apologize or help him cover the cost of the property they destroyed. So Afroman deployed creative means to increase public pressure, dropping not one, but a series of diss songs that detailed the incident extensively, once again showing the officers faces on screen each time and outlining his plans to file a lawsuit. But before Afroman could file his lawsuit, the sheriffs filed their own a legal battle over privacy for officers involved in a raid. At the center of it, rapper Afroman. Somehow the judge approved their motion and the defamation case went to trial. Every bit of this was a lie

[Afroman]

and you knew it shouldn't have threw a fake raid.

[Andrew Callahan]

After multiple years in court, the jury ultimately ruled that Afroman's diss songs were covered by first amendment free speech protections and that he wouldn't need to pay the sheriffs a goddamn dollar.

[Afroman]

Yeah, we did it, America. Yeah, we did it. Freedom of speech. Right on. Right on. Yeah. God bless America.

[Andrew Callahan]

Afroman was ecstatic, as were millions of Americans across the political spectrum. Anyways, enjoy the interview.

[Afroman]

My name is the hungry hustling American dream Backslash Afro American wet dream Afro money making marijuana smoking man. And I am a singer, rapper, free comedian, musician.

[Andrew Callahan]

And so for somebody without a TV and no social media access, how would you explain to them what happened with the case? And over the past couple years, uh,

[Afroman]

freedom of speech has been challenged. How can you take me to court when you stole my money? And it's $400 short. There's the original Americans who want their freedom of speech. And there's like this new legal breed that's evolving that want to challenge that freedom of speech. You know what I'm saying? Like they say hate speech makes this new evolving group want to challenge freedom of speech. What they call it defamation. They have all these different variations of speech that want to challenge freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is such a broad statement. People are, you know, they're starting to take little cracks at it here and there.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Afroman]

To see if it can be freedom of speech under certain circumstances. With my case, we feel like overall freedom of speech won in America. You can say what you want to say, good or bad. Now they say if you tell a lie, that's defamation of character. But I did my research, and I wasn't telling any lies. You know, it was a fact. The cop. I was trying to figure out who the cops were. So as I zoomed in on them, I'd take a picture of them. Then I'd go do my homework and research. Who is this guy? I put him up. Who is this guy? And people would pop up. Oh, that is Brian Newland. Yeah. His brother was a police officer too, and he got fired because he was a convicted pedophile. They fought. You know, I started finding out who these strangers were walking around in my house. So to the general public, you have freedom of speech, but don't lie on people, because if you Lie on people, then they can possibly sue you for defamation of character. But you have freedom of speech, especially if you're telling the truth. And I feel like I won because I was telling the truth. I was doing my homework. And the police officers who raided my house, they didn't find anything. They didn't charge me, they vandalized and kicked down my door, they placed themselves on my video camera, they placed themselves into my music career. Therefore, the jury, they found me not guilty of defamation of character. So that's a big nutshell. But that's the fastest way I could burrito it for everybody. Raid my house and then get pissed. Cause the dungeon don't exist. My proof's on the Internet. I tell any citizen that's broke. If you don't got no money for a lawyer, you get you some damn good videotape footage. You get your evidence and you stand on it. You yell it out loud, you repeat it as much times as you can,

[Andrew Callahan]

like on social media and elsewhere.

[Afroman]

Every the. You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. So have your evidence, have your videotape, put it up on the media just in case you don't. So you don't lose it or anything. Get goofy, stash it as many places as you can. Get your facts straight. And you don't need no money with the truth. When you've done all you can do to stand, you stand and you yell it out. And this life is a war against good and evil. Sometime we win, sometime we lose. But fight.

[Andrew Callahan]

You mean like on a deeper spiritual level?

[Afroman]

Yeah. This whole life is a battle between good and evil. Is it good for you to vandalize my property, kick down my door, steal my money, flip off my surveillance camera, and then try to sue me in court? Is that good?

[Andrew Callahan]

And then potentially, like, eyeball some lemon pound cake, but look pretty good on the counter.

[Afroman]

That's not good, man. That's bad. So the good people have to fight that element. You gotta fight it with money, you gotta fight it without money. You gotta fight, you know, if everybody leaves you alone and everything is fine, you know, don't start no trouble. But man, when trouble kicks down your door and trouble steals your money and trouble looks at your lemon pound cake sometimes, you can't be no wussy. You gotta pull your pants up. You gotta go out there and address that trouble. You know what I'm saying? Especially if the man of the house, women get to have babies and, and, and, and, and, and you can't hit women. You have to Respect women, you hold the door open for them. There's a woman's role and there's her duties. Then there's a man's role and his duties. So when the government kick down your door and scare your kids and steal your money, a man got to stand up to the government. A man got to stand up to anybody that's doing wrong.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yo, Phoenix, Arizona, what the hell is up? Yo, Atlanta, Georgia, what the hell is up? Yo, El Paso, Texas, what the hell is up? You guys, guess what? I'm coming to your town to screen two secret documentaries, host a sick ass talent show, maybe some rap battles for something called the C5 Carnival. I am currently in Texas on tour right now, but having some fantastic shows. You can buy a ticket right now. You can see two secret documentaries. You can see rap battles, maybe a talent show, definitely. And a moderated Q and A. But show if you buy a ticket right now at www.channel5news. And remember, Atlanta, El Paso, Phoenix, we need you. Www.channel5.news Tickets on sale now in the pin comment and description box of this video. All right, so there's a quote that you have that you once said that your dad said. Your dad's from Mississippi, right?

[Afroman]

Texas. But we lived in Mississippi.

[Andrew Callahan]

Okay, you lived in Hattiesburg for a

[Afroman]

while, but he comes from.

[Andrew Callahan]

What part of Texas is he from?

[Afroman]

He's from Marshall, Texas. He's from the same town. George Foreman. We thank George Foreman as our family member. Because that town, Marshall, Texas, is too small for two Foremans to come out of that, to come out of that same freeway exit. You know what I'm saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

So you said, your dad once said, son, I'm not gonna whoop you for fighting. I'm gonna whoop you. Cause you was standing over there. What does that quote mean to you?

[Afroman]

My dad taught me how to avoid a fight. He said, you defended yourself. You didn't let that boy beat up on you. He said so I ain't gonna whoop you for that. I'm gonna whoop you for being in a place where you can get in a fight. I'm a whoop you for being in a position for a fight to come to you. Cause if you was home doing what you were supposed to do, you wouldn't have got in a fight. And what I'm thinking is those police officers, their daddy never gave them that little seven, eight year old whooping that I got. And so they're unaccountable, they make a mistake and then they cry and point the finger and they want to throw little fits until they make something bad happen to me. They're not getting the point. The point is you wasn't supposed to be there. All rivers lead back to the ocean. All my statements and my points lead back to the nutshell point. You had no business over here. You got some bad information. You didn't do your homework. You moved too fast. You vandalized my place. You put yourself on my cameras. You stole my money. You disconnected my cameras. You didn't want to help clean up the mess. And then when I do what I gotta do to clean up your mess, you wanna sue me for using my methods of redeeming my place. Yeah, so?

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, you came out on top. At least for now.

[Afroman]

Well, thank you, brother. Hey, man, all I can do is fight and tell the truth. I mean, I can stand there and be quiet while that keeps going on, or I can say something. In the movies, they go, stop, thief. Now, that dude was getting away till somebody put him on blast. Thief. Everybody know, hey, whoever's moving right now is some bad dude. And he can't. He can't move like he did now. If he didn't say nothing, that dude gets to get away with no hassle. But that's why we have freedom of speech. That way, when we have a problem, we can acknowledge that problem. After we acknowledge that problem with our freedom of speech, we can address that problem. After we address that problem with our freedom of speech, we can solve that problem. They vandalized my property. My money came up short. They disconnect my cameras because they are a poor sport.

[Andrew Callahan]

Are there any other areas in society right now where you feel like freedom of speech is being eroded in some way?

[Afroman]

Everywhere. Everywhere. Now I notice how the sheriff department, the same sheriff that's suing me, they assisted the Nazis to have their freedom of speech. And I want the Nazis to have their freedom of speech. But what I'm saying is, let me have mine too. Don't give the Nazis freedom of speech and tell me I can't say nothing. Let's all have freedom of speech at the same time. That's all I'm saying. Be fair with the freedom of speech. Don't be partial with the freedom of speech. This guy has freedom of speech, but this guy doesn't. You know what I'm saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

So you think that points to a broader problem? Like, as far as how law enforcement gives preferential treatment to certain groups in the country?

[Afroman]

You know, I'm gonna just look at my eyeballs for right now. For right now. My eyeballs see sheriffs helping Nazis in and out of U haul trucks, helping them have their freedom of speech.

[Andrew Callahan]

You talking about Patriot Front with the white masks that do like different rallies across the country.

[Afroman]

Right now I'm just referring to some

[Andrew Callahan]

Nazis, like actual American Nazi party people doing a demonstration in Adams County.

[Afroman]

And I'm not knocking them. I'm. I want the same privileges they got. That's all I'm saying. Let cuz I stand for freedom of speech. I want a guy to say when he has a problem with me, I want to know it. I don't want him to shut up and he's holding all that inside. I want a man to have freedom of speech. So I want the Nazis to have their freedom of speech, but I want to have my freedom of speech also. Everybody should have freedom of speech. If you're from America or in America, you should have freedom of speech.

[Andrew Callahan]

So backing up from the court case, going all the way back in time. I want to talk about Texas, I want to talk about your dad and then the move to la. You talk a lot about your dad in interviews. Was he a special person and a big influence on your life?

[Afroman]

Yes, he was. Yes, he was. He didn't pick fights, but every now and then he had stand on a principle. I seen him go get his pants hemmed one time. He was from the military. He's accustomed to that straight hem. This new hip seamstress wanted to do like some of that cool slant Mimey Vice BS with him and he was telling like, no, I don't want my pants hemmed like that. He said, I want my pants straight at the bottom. And then the guy goes, everybody do it like this. And he was like, I am not everybody. And the guy looked at him, he looked back and the guy just slowly went down and got it. Like he wanted it not to be hard to work with, but when he's right, he stood on the principle that made him right.

[Andrew Callahan]

So a firm defensive position.

[Afroman]

Dude, like I say, you don't want to walk around picking out, picking fights, walking around. I'm not telling you to be a bad dude, but when people kick down the door to where your family live, it's time for a man to stand on some business and stand on some principle. Like you need to see if they were right and if you're right and they're wrong, stand on it. Stand on it. Buck naked with your boxers on. Nope, you wrong. You ain't got army with a whole bunch of guns. If you don't got Time to grab your gun and grab your bulletproof vest. You stand on the facts.

[Andrew Callahan]

Back to the upbringing. Did your parents meet in Texas?

[Afroman]

No, they met in la. My dad's from Texas, my mom's from Alabama. But they both. You know, there was like this flight of black people from the south that went to la, Chicago, other Northern, you know, the black flight. All the blacks that were leaving the south, they went to different metropolitans for whatever reason. Mine went to Los Angeles.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, I was curious because that was like the Civil Rights act was passed in 64. Then you had the second great migration, which created the flight to Oakland, South, Los Angeles, places like that. So I'm assuming your dad followed that path.

[Afroman]

Yes, sir.

[Andrew Callahan]

Did he feel like the promise of the west was fulfilled in his move

[Afroman]

to LA at the time? I guess it was a good move at the time. My grandfather, he moved to Compton on an ox in a wagon. He rode an ox in a wagon from Texas all the way to Compton, and he bought his property in Compton for $7,000. I think a house in Compton is like 2 million now, you know? $2 million, you get shot in the ass while you bringing in your groceries and shit. You know what I'm saying? We curse on here.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, you can say whatever the fuck you want, man.

[Afroman]

All right, brother, I'm trying not to, but, you know, okay, you can say

[Andrew Callahan]

whatever the hell you want. You don't gotta go all the way there.

[Afroman]

All right, but we got the option, right?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yes. All right.

[Afroman]

I just love the option. All right. So at that time, it was the economic thing to do because I don't think he could get land in Texas for $7,000. I don't know. Back then, it was. It was all about. They were suckering people to la. There was jobs was out there. It was like a move back then. It's not a move right now, but back then it was a move.

[Andrew Callahan]

So moving there in the 60s and 70s was a great time period for

[Afroman]

black folks whenever they got there. Because, like, it might have been in the 50s, 40s, but I don't know. At some point, my grandfather moved from Texas to California.

[Andrew Callahan]

So you were born in 1974 during a very transitional time period for LA, for California. What do you remember about your early life, like, being elementary school age?

[Afroman]

I remember Afros. I remember bell bottoms. I remember people dancing outside of the Laundromat to shake your booty. I remember telling my mom, ooh, mom, they said a bad word. I thought booty was such a bad word. I remember palm trees I remember the Southside Christian palace, where I sung my first song. But I was a baby then. I, you know, I moved to Alabama at five years old.

[Andrew Callahan]

Okay.

[Afroman]

And I stayed between Mississippi and Alabama for like the next five, six years. So I came back to California when I was 12.

[Andrew Callahan]

And you lived on 69th and Western?

[Afroman]

Yes, sir.

[Andrew Callahan]

And what was your life like there? What kind of stuff were you getting up to?

[Afroman]

Oh, man, I think that's where I got my. My hustle and my. I don't know. It was. It was a. It was a major point. It's like where I started rapping. That's the first place I saw rich black people, guys with hair longer than the women. I started seeing like. Like police officers just jump out on any random black person. I realized that we all looked alike and we were all suspects until they figured out what was going on. And police helicopters. I never seen a homeless person. Everybody in the south had somewhere to go. It was a raggedy shack where he could sleep at his auntie's somebody house. It wasn't no homeless people in the south, so I never seen people sleeping on the ground. I never seen graffiti. I thought that was nasty. I didn't like that. Like, what the hell? They right on the damn way. Everywhere I looked, it was just like, nasty. But I like palm trees. I love the fact that it didn't rain. That was tripping me out. I went back to the South. I heard thunder. I jumped on the ground. I thought somebody was shooting. Cause I ain't heard thunder in so long, I forgot about it.

[Andrew Callahan]

Was there a particular, like, police brutality incident that you remember witnessing as a young kid in LA that like, really stuck with you?

[Afroman]

I never really saw, you know, we all saw Rodney King and I knew what was going on. I'd hear stories. I'd see people the next day and they'd tell me stuff. I would just see the police be rude, not aligned. Searching. Deacons coming home from church, they'll get a gang call and be searching Bill Cosby on the side of the road. You know what I'm saying? Like, I was just seeing unapologetic police officers. I definitely knew that they were aggressive. Like another type of aggressive and aggressive I didn't even see in Mississippi, you know? Cause in the south, you had to actually do something. It wasn't just. It wasn't as random as it was.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, yeah. A lot of people, like, characterize the south as being really backwards. And they make it seem like the west coast has it all together.

[Afroman]

No, no. The west coast is the frontier of racism. Like, they are innovative with racism. Like somebody somewhere right now coming up with more racist terminology, more racial jerk, more racial jokes, more, you know, it's on the frontier of racism. Yeah. California, I believe it's the most racist place in America.

[Andrew Callahan]

What are some of the ways you saw racism baked into California society that you didn't see in the South? Like, maybe something that was more behind the scenes.

[Afroman]

Okay. A racist cop in the south, he thought he was better than me. He didn't like me, but he'd still be polite. Good morning. You look like somebody we looking for. We just need to make sure you're not him and we'll let you go. And I'm sorry for the inconvenience if you're not this guy, a California dude, was more unapologetic and kind of happy. Even if I wasn't the guy, he was still kind of happy. He treated the N word bad, you know what I'm saying? So California had more unapologetic racism. Mississippi had a traditional, understandable racism, but it wasn't. It's there, but it wasn't. It's not as rude.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. And also, like, it's a little more

[Afroman]

classier racism, you know? Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Like Colonel Sanders style racism.

[Afroman]

You know, like, don't start nothing, won't be nothing. You know, they feel how they feel. But, you know, everybody know what's up in the south. But LA is up for grabs. So everybody want to spray paint on the wall, claim they territory. You know, everybody want their own piece of paradise and they don't want to share it with another nationality or group or whatever. So if you think about, LA is the most segregated city in Los Angeles.

[Andrew Callahan]

You mean in the state or the country?

[Afroman]

I'm gonna say in the country, of course. You know, Mexicans out populate everybody, but there was a time when each race stayed somewhere in the city. Mexicans had east la, blacks had South Central Washington, Compton, white people had West LA and Hollywood. They had the beaches, Santa Monica, you know, all that good stuff. It was a real segregated city. It's the, you know, it's the most segregated city. Three racial riots, probably even more, you know what I'm saying? Like, blah, blah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Was there a period of more like black unity in South Central before gangs became so prominent, like during the late black period.

[Afroman]

You would see it when the police beat up like, like when that little girl got killed over that orange juice

[Andrew Callahan]

by the, like, Korean store owner. Yeah.

[Afroman]

Or Rodney King, you know what I'm saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

But you Never went down the whole rabbit hole of, like, the systematic deconstruction of certain communities in la.

[Afroman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I. Dude, God bless America. The land that I love. Land where my fathers died. But if I was to keep it real, Black people wasn't brought to America for America to be beneficial to black people. Black people were brought to America to be burden bearers, to make life convenient for black. The white people who bought them. So there's an element in America that gives black people the short end of the stick. Now, all white people ain't like that. The good white people need to influence the bad white people a little bit more. A whole lot more. So, yeah, the government put crack in the black neighborhood. That's bad. That's bad. I don't like that. But a black person gotta learn how to say, no, I don't want you crack. The government, do what it do. But despite that, you know, all the strides that Afro Americans have made, you know, we went to France. I think they call them the Harlem Hail Stormers or something. France praised these men, the Tuskegee Airmen that helped win the World War II. It's a reason why ICE can't deport me. Everybody gotta go home except this guy, definitely. You can put me in prison, you can hang me from a tree, but. No, I stay.

[Andrew Callahan]

So going back to la, what prompted that move to Palmdale?

[Afroman]

When I was living in Los Angeles, I was trying to go to school and do my homework and everything. And I was the only child, so I was trying to fit in with the little boys in my neighborhood. So I started claiming the set.

[Andrew Callahan]

And which, for those who might not know, means a gang.

[Afroman]

Yeah, I started claiming my section of la. We say set. Claiming the set. I started claiming my section of la. I went to school. I went to junior high with my rivals, and there was no way that I was gonna complete junior high school with my rivals as deep as they were at that junior high school. So I told my dad about that. So to give me a clean start, to be able to finish school, he took me to Palmdale. He did his homework. He did his research. And he didn't realize. He didn't know nothing about G. He was a good old black man from Texas. All black people was. We was all slaves. We was all pole. We was all in the ghetto. He didn't know what the problem was. He didn't understand none of that stuff. But once he seen what was up, he realized he moved us somewhere crazy. He said, okay. So he went up to Palmdale he bought us a house up there and that's how I got to Palmdale. No more ducking for shotgun shell. Bought a two story house in East Palmdale. Give it to me now. Palmdale. Hey, come back to me.

[Andrew Callahan]

Before you went there, did you ever have any encounters with like Tookie Williams or Big U?

[Afroman]

No, I think Tookie was gone before I came along. Now he wasn't gone like dead, but he. I think he was in prison before I came along. The Rolling 60 set was like, that was a foreign country to me. I didn't stagger around there meeting different Rolling 60s, you know, I didn't know no Rolling 60s.

[Andrew Callahan]

Even though you were on 69th?

[Afroman]

Yeah, that was the north side. Like my set, we expanded across Florence. The 8 Ray gangsters run the 80s and they took over the 70s. Then they crossed Florence and they start nibbling on some of those 60s streets. So when I came there and I moved there on 69th, it was eight Ray gangsters around. And you know, I started getting, you know, I was a little boy, I started, you know, knowing them and affiliating with them and they was taking over, you know, they started pushing cats on the west side of Western and north of 67th Street.

[Andrew Callahan]

Did you feel like when you went to Palmdale things calmed down a bit and you could focus more on like school and music and stuff like that?

[Afroman]

Yes, yes, definitely. You can get in a fight in Palmdale too. But it wasn't like LA LA. There was no choices, LA. It was what it was in LA, you know what I'm saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

I want to hear about this song that you made in 8th grade called Harry Carry.

[Afroman]

So gather round young cholos, bloods and crips While I ra rap about the hair on Carrie's lips. It goes Harry Carrie, Harry Carrie. Man, you know what? The other day I called myself a. Like, you got serial killer, right? I called myself a serial rapper. Like, I'll take you out lyrically, you know what I'm saying? Like, I was in the sixth grade, Raymond Elementary. This girl had a lot of money. She had some real fancy clothes and she picked on everybody. Me and all the other kids, we were poor and raggedy and we couldn't buy $50 tennis shoes and $100 jumpsuits. So I remember she was a. She was a. She was cute. She was a real cute girl, but she was real mean and rude and she had like a slight mustache. Her lip was kind of dark around the tip. So I. I wrote this rap song exaggerating about her mustache. I had There's Lottie Dottie. So I made Harry Carrey. I kind of structured my song like Lottie Dottie. But I turned to Harry Cary, I wrote it. And then I had my friend Beatbox. And so I said it. Harry Carey ate her own cherry. That's why her lips are very, very hairy. You know how they used to say, you go down on a girl, you get hairy lips? So I said, harry, Carrie ate her own cherry. That's why her lips are hairy. And they were like, who in elementary school. That was a good line. You're gonna like this one because it's a winner. I remember one night she invited me to dinner. She opened the door, I sat at ease that night. She cooked some macaroni and cheese. I did not care. Pulled up my chair, opened up my mouth. Got a mouth full of hair. I said, carrie, what you put in this trash? She said, I'm sorry, Joseph. That's my mustache. I looked at her and I said, what? She said, I tried to shave, but the razor wouldn't cut. I asked my dad, my maw, my pa. I got tired of listening. I crunked the chainsaw. I cranked it up, it began to run. Afro man, bout to have some fun. Try to cut her hair. It began to pop, snap. I said, it began to smoke, snap, crackle, pop. And the chainsaw broke. I said, hairy Carrie, try to calm down. You done ran all the barbershops out of town. Don't get mad, don't complain. And she had a hairy leg friend. I pulled her pants leg up. I said, go chill out with Hairy leg Charmaine. And I ended on that and the scooter. The whole school. Like I said, rap was a craze in the late 80s. If you attempted to do it, people would gather around you like a fight or break dancing. People with all the kids at the school was just. I was on top of this bench with my buddy Beatboxing. And we just had a whole sea of. The whole recess was over there. And the whole school just went nuts. When I pulled up that girl's leg and said, hairy Leg Charmaine. And they was like the two school bullies. So that was like my first rap song against the bullies.

[Andrew Callahan]

And what effect did that have?

[Afroman]

Everybody started calling her Harry Cary. Anytime she tried to pick on anybody, they'd start singing my rap song. Like she had to chill out and start treating people nice.

[Andrew Callahan]

So you humbled the bullies. You're like a social vigilante early on in life.

[Afroman]

Yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

And that was the first time that you used those creative means to get over on someone who was putting you down.

[Afroman]

Yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

And you still do that?

[Afroman]

Only when I have. Only when necessary. Don't make me do it. Don't make me do it, Lemon pound cake. Only when necessary. Because if it ain't necessary, I just want to get high and have some cold 45 with two zigzag. You know, I just want a nice rap.

[Andrew Callahan]

But you know, I heard even the name Afroman itself is a rebranding of a nickname someone tried to give you to put you down.

[Afroman]

Yeah, you know, like I'm trying to make it look good. Like, you know, you know, I didn't have no voluptuous nice afro. I had the spiders in the meeting going on. I had that little intermediate situation going on. And the girl was like, hey, you boy Afroman, pass this up to the front. And everybody started laughing and that name was kind of sticking. Everybody, hey Afroman. They'd laugh, Afroman, Afroman. Cause everybody had bald heads in the mid-90s. Tupac, Michael Jordan, any serious black man that was seriously trying to get at a good looking black chick, he had his hair cut and that was like requirement number one, get a haircut. If you didn't have a decent haircut, a girl would give you a ride home, she'd give you some food. But if you thought about asking her for a number and your hair wasn't right, she, you know, she go, uh, you know, you need to go get this shaved and cleaned up. You can't be out here with me.

[Andrew Callahan]

But you didn't fold to cultural peer pressure. You kept the Afro rockin and you own the nickname.

[Afroman]

Because of my finances, I couldn't get, I couldn't get that $10 haircut every two, three days.

[Andrew Callahan]

So if you had some money, you would have been Michael Jordan ball.

[Afroman]

Yes, if I could have, yeah. I love to be fly. So if I could have been fly, I would have been fly. But I couldn't do it. And I was trying to go to school, I was trying to eat, and I just couldn't get my hair cut every day. And so I had an unattractive afro in the mid-90s and people used to call me Afro Man. And then I seen a, I seen too short. And he was saying how he went up to girls saying, yo, I want your number, I want this and I want that. And he was saying how the girls told him he was too short. And the girls always told him he was too short. And he said he started putting it on hats and shirts and everything. And he said it worked. So I thought I'd try that. I was trying to figure out how I could get fly with Afro Man. So I noticed it was seven letters and it had a O in the middle. I drew an afro around the O and a little stick man smiley face. And I saw. And then I made it Afro man. And I embraced it. I started wearing hats. I started wearing T shirts. And then I made a rap tape and I started. I was like, I couldn't fight. I couldn't fight gravity. I was like, all right, Afro Man. I started, and it started working. And when I walk up to a dude clowning me with, clowning me, calling me money, he likes, you can rap Afro. They put it in, check it out, be laughing, and it's Afroman. Take it. It just. It was working. It worked better than, you know, Heavenly Henry or Poetic Paul. And, you know.

[Andrew Callahan]

So in between Harry Cary and then owning the name Afroman, were you still making music?

[Afroman]

Yes, yes. Matter of fact, I was looking for a rapper name. I was trying to go with Jay Natural. I was trying to do everything. Man, my phone's ringing like a dog. I'm sorry. I'm gonna turn this thing off.

[Andrew Callahan]

So we talked a lot about eighth grade. The first time I smoked weed in eighth grade, I was listening to your music.

[Afroman]

Well, I want to thank you and apologize at the same time, man. I didn't mean to influence you at such a young age.

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, you didn't make me do it, but, you know, it was like the essential weed music at that time. So I think people probably want to know when was the first time you smoked weed and was it a positive or negative experience?

[Afroman]

I smoked some weed, but I wasn't getting high at first. You know what I'm saying? Like, I was smoking, like, some. You know, when you first start smoking weed, you don't know if you're smoking some good weed or some Bama. You don't even know. You could be smoking parsley. You don't even know. Until you get high, you start realizing, oh, okay, this would smell like, oh, this is what. This how I'm supposed to feel, you know, when you're getting ripped off or not. So at first, I didn't know what I was smoking. I was. I was pulling these little joints, and I was scared of some kind of crack high that I couldn't. So I didn't want to get addicted. So I. I smoke a little bit and see did it. Does it kick in 30 minutes later or, you know, I Think the one time I really got is when I had a homeboy. He had a car in his backyard with no wheels on it. It sat on bricks. He got some good weed. One time. He was like, man, you my homeboy. I love you. He said, man, come over my house, man. He's. I got a special treat. He called his three best homies. It was me, another dude and another dude. We was all in the back of this. We was all in this car. I'm in the front, this other dude in the front. He in the back seat. He light up four blunts. We might as well not even pass these things. Passing them was a joke. Cause then another one was coming. It was like a mind game or something. He said, don't roll down the window and waste my money. And it's like, I ain't never had that much smoke. It was like stupid. Like tears was coming out of my eyes. My tongue was a rug, you know what I'm saying? Like, I gotta get out of here. And so he finally said, okay, y' all can get out. And when we open up that car door, La duh tuh tu. That's when I got my little dance. Cause I feel like the coyote on Roadrunner when they slow it down. So I remember I was walking. It felt like I was floating. Like I couldn't really feel my legs.

[Andrew Callahan]

And you were 16.

[Afroman]

I was older. I'm a late bloomer.

[Andrew Callahan]

Like after high school.

[Afroman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause I was playing football in high school. I thought you was a bum if you smoked any kind of dope, even if you drunk beer. I just thought you was a goofy ass, you know, I might have been. I'm gonna say 20. Cause I smoked some Bama weed when I was 18. I didn't try to do it every day. I like to drink my 40s at 18. I was a 40. Man hit me in Newport, you know, I was cool.

[Andrew Callahan]

And was Colt 45 actually your favorite 40? Or was that like a behind the scenes brand deal?

[Afroman]

Man, I wanted an eight ball because all the famous gangsters drunk eight ball. All the gangster rappers drunk eight ball. Eight Ball was the ghetto Republican beard. You was like a rich ghetto dude when you spent $5 on a beard. When you spend $5 on one beard, you know, $5 is $5 was a lot of money back in the day. I couldn't afford $5 beers, but Coke 45 cost $1.25. I remember I got this one song, I say, standing in the front of the liquor store with no dough, trying to bum a foe o8 ball cost 384. I can't afford that. I'm young and po co 45 cost $1.25 and I'm trying to survive. If I ask five people four quarter, I be just like the bathroom out of order I used to be bashful, used to be shy and all that stuff. Five quarters from some strangers outside of the gas station and get me a whole 40. And then I liked the way it made me feel. Like eight ball gave me like this, this, this bad hangover the next day. But I could pop up and play basketball after I drunk a Colt 45, you know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't feel it. It was like, okay, everything's fine.

[Andrew Callahan]

That's a pretty special talent. You could drink a 40 and play basketball right after.

[Afroman]

I'm talking about, like the next day.

[Andrew Callahan]

Did you end up graduating high school or no?

[Afroman]

No, I dropped out of the 11th grade.

[Andrew Callahan]

And was that like out of musical passion or you just weren't feeling school?

[Afroman]

A combination of things. My parents was breaking up. They were letting the house go in foreclosure in Palmdale. So I had to choose which parent I was gonna go with. And it was in the middle of the school year. On top of that, I wanna rap. There's no college for rappers. So I'm sitting around in school, just sitting here and just, you know, douchebagging around. I could see me staying in school if there was a rap class. There's no rap class. You know, I study hip hop at home with my tapes and through the game. So if I was to be honest with myself, I was basically through with school. So my parents was leaving, my mom was going her route, my dad was going back to Mississippi. I figured I'd go down to LA and try to become a rapper.

[Andrew Callahan]

How'd it go?

[Afroman]

LA is the entertainment capital. I couldn't tell myself I was gonna make it musically in Mississippi versus the music capital. How do you leave LA and go to Mississippi to make it in the music business? You know what I'm saying? Like, little farm boys is walking with they belongings on a stick. Everybody's trying to get to LA so they can make it fresh out of high school. I thought my best move to go down to LA and try to make it rapping, you know, go hard and try to make it.

[Andrew Callahan]

And back then, like, obviously way before the Internet, what was the standard marketing protocol for putting yourself out there?

[Afroman]

There was the Cinderella story of dropping off a tape to Dr. Dre or you know, letting some dude in the industry hear your song. There was that. And I think that's all I knew at the time. Now I knew Too Short sold tapes out the trunk and I was willing to do that. While I was waiting for a big deal, I was ready to do whatever was moving. So I was ready to go to the studio, make me some songs, make me some albums. I was ready to sell them myself. And then if I could get a deal, you know, I'm with that. But if I can't, I was ready to keep my trunk popped on my car and to keep slanging them.

[Andrew Callahan]

You mentioned style. You've always kind of had like really colorful suits and different, like sort of pimpop type, you know. Did you listen to a lot of BAE artists? Is that what inspired a lot of your fashion or was that also happening in la?

[Afroman]

I take what I want from everywhere. Yeah, I go shopping in the. I go shopping in the humanity store. So what I see, I take whatever, whatever. Whatever I like, I take. I seen some clean preachers. I seen some pretty clean brothers. Ice T is our player in la. He was pretty clean. You know, we got good weather in la, so you ain't gonna see the mink coats in la. You ain't gonna. I mean, you might some rich Hollywood movie star party that I can't go to coming from South Central la, but we had Ice T. Ice T was the flyest player that I knew in la. And you know, you got a little bit of the game everywhere, you know what I'm saying? You gonna have your fly New York cats, you gonna have you fly Atlanta brothers. Right now I think I'm gonna give it to Chicago, you know, that's where I really seen some clean brothers.

[Andrew Callahan]

Was there somebody in Chicago that put you onto the game or you self made through observation?

[Afroman]

A little bit of both. I went through a bad divorce and I had a lady take some money from me that I didn't think she deserved. And I was just looking at all the complications I went through in my marriage. Then I look up and I'm seeing guys with, you know, five, ten women paying them and they driving, living good. I got one woman taking half from me and these dudes got five, ten women bringing everything to him. And I was wondering what I was doing wrong. So I was just like, I was fascinated. Fresh out of a divorce that broke me for some money. I'm fascinated with a guy that gets paid and he got five, 10 women. I'm like, how do you do that? Yeah, so blah. Blah, blah.

[Andrew Callahan]

And the second part of the question, Was there a person, maybe a style or game icon that put you on?

[Afroman]

I was inspired by the whole game, but I guess Bishop Dunn Magic. When I was sad and depressed, I'd watch him in his Rolls Royce. I'd watch him looking good and he'd be talking positive, man, you know, stay down. You know, keep your head up. If you stay ready, you ain't got to get ready. It's like all them players, they had a little saying or something that. That would make you. That inspire you. They'll say something like, stay down like four flat tires. When all the buildings in New York City fall, I'm gonna be standing tall. Just something that make you wanna get up off the ground, brush yourself off and say, you know what? Let's go for it.

[Andrew Callahan]

Did you ever have one, like a phrase?

[Afroman]

Yeah, I got a phrase. My phrase. I had to outdo all the players that inspired me. So mine is Kenny Redd, rest in Peace. I like to say stay down like four flat tires. Lee Mack, rest in peace, Stay down and come up with your money. I'm the hungry hustling American dream, Backslash, Afro American wet dream. The rock and roll gangsters, the Kenny Redd, rest in Peace of reefer rap. The Don Juan, Dank the Pimp and Kenny the Ink Pen Money Q Green. You know, there's these. I got my lines.

[Andrew Callahan]

Who do you think's on the Mount Rushmore of old school pimpin?

[Afroman]

Okay, everybody say Iceberg Slim. But I missed that boat. And he didn't to me. He didn't like what he was doing. He didn't like himself. He didn't like. So I'm a. Me personally, I'm gonna exclude him. In my book, it's gonna be Don Juan, Kenny Redd. I like Jojo, and I like Scorpio. How many people's up on Rushmore?

[Andrew Callahan]

Four presidents up there.

[Afroman]

And I like Pimp and Ken. I think he got a beautiful. I think he got the best mouthpiece in the game. We was just talking about dressing. My Mount Rushmore is my. I got inspiration from their dress, their wardrobe.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, yeah. So just to clarify, Pimpin isn't cool, but pimps dress cool?

[Afroman]

Yes, yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

And another thing I wanted to talk about too is I saw you don't say the N word in your music. What kind of prompted that choice?

[Afroman]

Well, first of all, the N word is the most. I'm trying to find that word is said in the dictionary. It's the most offensive word in the English Language. I don't like being greeted with it. I don't address my brothers and sisters with it. Like, if you're on the Lakers, you're not going to say, fuck the Lakers. Or if you're an Englishman, you're not going to walk around saying, hey, what's up, limey? You know what I'm saying? If you're a Mexican, you're not going to walk around going, hey, beaner, what's happening? You know what I'm saying? I don't feel black people should disrespect the home team, you know? I know in America, they hear it so much. Like, if I had a bunch of white. Give me a bunch of white kids. All right? Imagine they're here. Yeah. They're all my. Give them. Give them to me as babies. Here you go. Right? All right. And when I see. I say, hunky, hunky, hunky, hunky, hunky, hunky, hunky. I separate them from the older white people that love them. The older white people that's gonna give them dignity and pride and say, hey, we're Americans. We're white people. We're the. I separate them from them people. And I got them over here in my little chicken coop, and I'm like, you're a honky. Honky, Honky, honky, honky, honky, honky, honky. What are those little white kids gonna grow up saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

Cracker, honky.

[Afroman]

And then they're gonna shake. They gonna be like, what's up, my honky? They're gonna have pride when they say it. What's up, honky? Yeah. Innocent and uninformed. Cause I done separated them from the people that would give them the dignity and pride not to say that. So I'm thinking, hundreds of years ago, the black people that couldn't speak English. Nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga. Sometime I watch a movie, the slave would be like, whose nigga is you? You know? They don't know no better. They don't know. They don't know they're the original man God created. They don't know they invented the pyramid. They don't know the Moors took knowledge to the Greeks and the Egyptians took. And the Moors brought knowledge to Spain and Europe. They don't know they're these intellectual people. All they know is what this guy that don't like him told him. That's my reason why I don't like the N word. I don't think black people should Call themselves that. I guess that's it in a nutshell.

[Andrew Callahan]

I can, I guess growing up, and I grew up in what they call a diverse environment where it was used a lot. And I was always told that it was a way of reappropriating a word that was used to dehumanize the community. So it's like by using it ourselves, we're taking that power away.

[Afroman]

Okay, all right. I'mma piss on you and I'mma tell you it's raining. Is that rain just cause I say it's rain? No, that's piss. I salute the brothers that tried that. And I understand. Ain't nothing wrong, you know, like if I stick you with a pin, it's typical if you jump. I gotta salute a brother that don't let the N word hold it. Hurt him, he use it, he get with him like, you can't hurt him like that. I salute that. At the same time, no.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. At what point in your life did you come to that conclusion?

[Afroman]

I think when a Mexican walked up to me and said it, I didn't like it no more.

[Andrew Callahan]

You've been back to LA in a while?

[Afroman]

No, I left LA because of it. I didn't want to go to prison because it was too many people using the N word that wasn't black. And I, I couldn't kill them all. So I knew I better leave before, you know.

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, Mexicans in East LA don't typically say that.

[Afroman]

A real Mexican don't say it. You got the, you know, like. I don't know, whatever, whatever, you know, like people hate us, but they imitate us. I'm gonna say that again. People hate us, but they imitate us. You know what I'm saying? My dad said black people invented low riding. He said it was like in the 50s. And he said black people used to wear zoot suits. He said black people, the black jazz musicians used to wear zoot suits. And he said that, you know, Mexicans that play the oldies, Motown, they play em now they play em like if I dig up Smokey Robinson, it won't be a picture of smokey Robinson on YouTube. It'd be like five cholos standing there. And I'm trying to, you know, when I pull up a Smokey Robinson video, that's how much they done, like embraced and intercepted Motown and all of the classic soul oldies that black Americans made. You know what I'm saying? You know, people hate us, but they imitate us. You know what I'm saying? So I was listening to that lefty Guy talk. He was like, yeah, in the penitentiary, we got ours. We let the blacks know, like, you guys are over there, but we got ours. Oh, but when he gets out the penitentiary. Oh, he wants to rap like the black guys he want to kill in the penitentiary. No, keep that same energy when you get out the penitentiary. No, no, no, no, no. Don't come over here using our rap music. You go over there and sing La Bamba. And a black dude wrote that, from what I heard. You know what I'm saying? So I ain't mad at him. It's like, just all that N word using. And then the black people that give other races the green light to disrespect us. Like, you know, California, you know, like, you know, I love my hometown, but. But it's a lot of stuff there, you know, that I don't like. You know what I'm saying? I'mma go back, but, like, I gotta live out in the desert. I need a whole lot of space, and I gotta drive around to my love. I just can't just be out with, like, random people drinking and just saying whatever and, you know, whatever.

[Andrew Callahan]

But you feel like the popularity of the music is the driving force behind the appropriation of black forms.

[Afroman]

You know, I think brothers should have thought about it. I think NWA should have been brothers with an attitude.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Afroman]

Instead of. We all get it. I get it. We was all mad and. And, you know, one time I called a girl a bitch, and she turned around, she said, I'mma show you a bitch. You know what I'm saying? So, like, I think a lot of black people kind of got that attitude, like, oh, we some niggas. Okay, all right, all right. We gonna show you some niggas. We gonna burn all this shit up. We gonna fuck up. And so they just running with that junk. But I think we should have just held onto the brothers. Cause now, you know, you got all kind of non blacks just. Just using the N word. And, you know, I don't know if

[Andrew Callahan]

they would have got the record deal if it was bwa.

[Afroman]

They could. They could have said f the police, as they would have got it.

[Andrew Callahan]

You don't think that there was, like, a conscious agenda behind promoting some of these words on, like, a corporate entertainment level? I'm sorry, do you think there was a conscious agenda, like, in promoting gangster rap in the 80s?

[Afroman]

Yeah, but see, they can't promote. They can't promote what you don't do.

[Andrew Callahan]

Gotcha, gotcha.

[Afroman]

Yeah. If a lady take off her clothes and start wiggling Right now I'm a promoter, but if she don't take off her clothes, I can't promote her.

[Andrew Callahan]

So it falls back to individual responsibility of the person.

[Afroman]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

So you mentioned nwa, you mentioned Mississippi once, which made me think about Soulja Boy, who's also from Mississippi. And he said that he was the first viral rapper. But if I think about it, I think it would actually be you with the song Because I Got High.

[Afroman]

Yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

That was the first viral hip hop song.

[Afroman]

Yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

Can you break down, like, how that song came about and then we can get into the actual mechanics of the mass spread of that song? Because it was, like, number one in Belgium and like, 15 different countries in Europe.

[Afroman]

I was gonna go to court before I got high. I was gonna pay my child support, but then I got high. No, you wasn't, because I got high. The first YouTube was Napster. I didn't know nothing about it. I was on the verge of being homeless and everything.

[Andrew Callahan]

You were working at LAX at that time, too?

[Afroman]

No, LAX was before that. LAX is gonna be in the Afroman days. When I first got my nickname and everything. Yeah. Okay. This is going to be. After I moved back to Mississippi, I kind of gave up on la.

[Andrew Callahan]

Went back to Hattiesburg.

[Afroman]

Yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. You're working at a chicken processing center.

[Afroman]

Yes. I remember I gave away. I tried to sell some CDs. Nobody would buy them. I got tired of toting the box around. I was just like, damn. So I just started giving it away to people. And they went home and put it up on the computer. And they put it up on Napster. They had to invent the word viral to explain what my song had did through the computer. It was like a computer. Platinum. At first we had platinum. We didn't have viral. Nobody said that before 2000. They started saying it after Because I Got High circulated. One dude said it was. I remember the dude, he looked like the guy on the Godfather that got mad at Michael Curleon. He goes. He was banging cocktail waitresses two at a time. Me, Mo Green. Yeah, yeah. He had on some glasses like Mo Green. He was like. He like. You're everywhere he goes. Your song went viral. And he held it with his eyes open like, I ain't never heard that word. I'm like, what is that? It was like. It's like a virus. They had to invent that word to explain what had happened in everybody's computers around the world.

[Andrew Callahan]

So nobody said it viral before your song came out?

[Afroman]

Yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

Wow. And it stemmed from. Was it a rave in New Orleans, I read.

[Afroman]

Yes. I handed out 500 CDs at a rave. All those kids went home and loaded that stuff up and it went around the world in like two, three days.

[Andrew Callahan]

Two, three days?

[Afroman]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

And what was your initial reaction? Like how did you even like come to terms with that global reach?

[Afroman]

Dude, I didn't even know what had happened. This dude was just pounding on my door like the British is coming or something, you know what I'm saying? He was like, Universal want us in New York right now. We gotta get a plane. And I'm like, okay, all right, all right. You know, like damn. And it was like, it wasn't a joke. The plane tickets was there, first class limousine picking us up, New York City, saw Johnnie Cochran in the airport, took a picture. Shit was starting to change, brother. Like I didn't know what was going on, but it was crazy, it was creepy and it was big.

[Andrew Callahan]

And how soon until you signed that major deal?

[Afroman]

It must have been like two, three days later. Yeah, we got the plane ticket, we flew up there. Universal was not playing.

[Andrew Callahan]

I know you're old school, so you probably don't want to talk about money super openly, but was it a pretty decent check for that first signing bonus?

[Afroman]

Yes sir. Yes sir. Let me get a quick time check right quick. I supposed to be on stage at seven. All right.

[Andrew Callahan]

We are here at Afroman's first show after his victorious court case against the Adams County Sheriff's Department. It's not a big venue. We're not in an arena or a big ass theater. We're inside of a dive bar in a suburban town called Clayton, Indiana, home to about 15,000 people. And it appears that 1%, maybe 5% of the town is in this bitch right now to watch Afroman do his thing. Thoughts on Afroman? He's great. How do you feel about his court case victory? That was amazing. Freedom of speech, good or bad?

[Afroman]

Great. The Afroman in Belleville, baby. You know? When are we gonna see this again?

[Andrew Callahan]

It's Afroman.

[Afroman]

How do you not show up tonight? My name's Gerald Claxon. This is the Clack Shack. Little small town, little hole in the wall type thing. Freedom of speech all the way through, baby, all the way. Go.

[Andrew Callahan]

Freedom of speech, Absolutely.

[Afroman]

Afroman got off his trial from freedom of speech. Honestly, I didn't know much about this court case till about two days ago.

[Andrew Callahan]

Super epic, super sick.

[Afroman]

And how blessed he is that it

[Andrew Callahan]

was all on camera with his cameras inside. You feel me? Like that's. I was just thinking about that earlier Today I was like, player, player, Hell yeah. What do you think this victory symbolizes? Freedom of speech.

[Afroman]

There's still hope in this world, at least a little bit. Oh, man, there's hope for my career. Hey, you know what? I feel like Tina Turner. She was old as fuck. She was basically a skeleton in some stilettos. Her hair looked like somebody electrocute. It ain't over.

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, you know what?

[Afroman]

It ain't over, you motherfucker. She got one more left. What's love got to do? Hey, it's a beautiful.

[Andrew Callahan]

When you pulled the guitar too, that was pretty sick.

[Afroman]

Right on, brother.

[Andrew Callahan]

So I had a couple follow up questions from the interview from yesterday. When you said you went to Chicago and like met a bunch of cool people and stuff like that. Did you ever go to a players ball?

[Afroman]

Oh, yeah, man, I go to all of them. Yeah, man. Cause I'm a player to this day. Yes. Don Juan, he, he threw his last one. He had his leg amputated. So he threw his Last one, the 50th one. So I guess it's up to the younger generation of players to keep it going. I'm gonna talk to Pimpsy down in San Diego and I'm gonna talk to some of the other famous players and see where they want to have them at and how they want to do them. I think they planning a picnic in July.

[Andrew Callahan]

A pimp picnic?

[Afroman]

Yeah. Player.

[Andrew Callahan]

Player.

[Afroman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

So what's the main difference?

[Afroman]

A pimp, I guess like that word can mean a lot. Like, it can mean like a guy that beats a chick up and forces her to have sex with people. We don't do that. A woman loves a player, she can't help herself. Everybody loves a player. Nobody likes a pimp, you know? Yeah, we some players, man. A player is a nice dude. A player is a ghetto politician. He's a good dude, he's smart, he has money, he has lots of friends, he has ideas, he throws parties. He's a wonderful social person. Yeah, he's a politician. So yeah, players ball.

[Andrew Callahan]

And do you think that culture will survive the test of time?

[Afroman]

Yeah, there's gonna always be a player. There's always gonna be a hater. So who the hater gonna hate if it ain't no player around? Somebody gotta be shining, doing good. So somebody got somebody to fuss and complain about. You gotta have the yin with the yang. You gotta have night and day, balance off the universe.

[Andrew Callahan]

You ever have any interactions with Sugar Free?

[Afroman]

Yeah, that's my man. That's the homie, you know what's the smoking on a dodo and his cousin? Hey, I'm sipping on the Hennessy. Cause it's up. What's up, Sugar Free? Sugar sugar. My homeboy Strange was tight with him. And Strange took me to his show. He brought me in the back, was smoking weed with me. He always treated me with respect, man. And I appreciate him, man. Cause I love his music. A lot of rappers I grew up listening to, you know, I love him, but you know, the feeling ain't mutual. They ain't feeling me. But Sugar Free is one of them rappers I grew up listening to. And he liked me too, you know. So he like, because I got high, he think I'm funny and everything. Cool, brother. I love Sugar Free, man. Free to pee. Look like the game hurt.

[Andrew Callahan]

If the bitch got two or three

[Afroman]

phones, she either a hoe or a brain surgeon.

[Andrew Callahan]

You ever meet a monster Cody?

[Afroman]

I didn't. You know, he stayed on my street. He stayed on my street. You know, I lived off of 69th in Harvard.

[Andrew Callahan]

So your dad in moving you to Palmdale when you were 11. Do you feel like it's a stretch to say that that might have saved your life?

[Afroman]

I'm going say, yeah, I was too alpha male. I was probably going to get it. You know, I might have made it. A lot of my homies made it through. They still around today. And they banged hard. Every day at South Central. I'm thinking me, the way I rap talk D spray painted on the wall.

[Andrew Callahan]

Too active.

[Afroman]

Cause yeah, I didn't back down. I was bony. My Jheri curl was too long. Somebody probably would have got me, man. Or I might have made it. I don't know. My dad didn't take that chance. Once he did his research, we was out of there.

[Andrew Callahan]

What percentage of people who were active during the 80s, during your time in South Central do you think are still around today? Is it half or you think it's even less?

[Afroman]

My homies were survivors. My homie Shady Mac died of natural causes. We put him down the other day. But my homies is still alive. One, one of my homies went to the penitentiary. They dodged some bullets. They, they, they. Some matadors, you know what I'm saying? You know, they tricked the bull and they, they stuck him with the sword at the end like they still alive. Tutone, he's still alive. He's. He live in the set right now. I pay his rent for him every day. All hungry. I need a new Cadillac. Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

So even though you moved to Palmdale, you didn't sever those lifelong bombs.

[Afroman]

I couldn't. I was a 8 Ray gangster. Like, I wasn't finna take my khakis off for nothing, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I was in Palmdale, but in my mind, I was still a Crip. I was still from eight Trey Gangsta. And that's how I carried myself. I dressed up every day, I got up every morning, ironed my khakis, ironed my T shirt, went to the Slauson swap meet every chance I could, you know, Went to see the homies every chance I could. Yeah, you can ask anybody from Palmdale. Joby. Yeah. 8 Trey Gangster, Louisiana. South Central, Wooty woo.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's interesting cause like, fast forward now, Lancaster and Palmdale have some of like the highest murder rates in the state. And a lot of LA families now got relocated from places like South Central especially.

[Afroman]

Yeah, man. You know, the funny part is the worst gang banger in la, he fantasizes about retiring in Palmdale, but the whole city is doing that. So a gang banger go to Palmdale to get away from gangs. There's a million other gang bangers there too, trying to get away from gangs. So you go up to the gas station, you get in the worst gang fight shootout in your life in Palmdale. Cause in la, every three things organized, right? Every gang is in their neighborhood. So if you're from that hood, you can get peace in your hood. Palmdale, Lancaster, you move into a little apartment that's not a certified hood. You see what I'm saying? Like your gang doesn't run that area. Different gang members is moving into apartment complexes. A crip upstairs, blood downstairs. 18th street, down the hall in 13 over here. You go to your car to bring in the groceries, man. You got all kind of shit going on them sheriff cars flying all up and down the street in Palmdale.

[Andrew Callahan]

Did you see the video that came out of Cowboy from from the 60s, like now, living far out in the desert, like past Apple Valley, like out there on a private compound with like 6 acres, like by himself.

[Afroman]

That's how you do it, brother. That's how you do it. I bought 195 acres. I want a real hood. I want a real country that I control. Like my land is my country. I'm the judge, I'm the president, I'm the army, I'm the police, I'm the judge. I like to put a fence up around my 195 acres.

[Andrew Callahan]

I can see you being the president of a micronation. Have you Heard of those before.

[Afroman]

Like the Amish kind of dude?

[Andrew Callahan]

No. Like you can declare your property a nation, a micro nation. You can have your own like passport stamp process. You can have law enforcement for nonviolent crimes. You can have your own currency. You can do all those things. I can kind of picture you. They have one in called Malacia outside of Reno, where this guy named Kevin has like a 20 acre property. He dresses like a North Korean president or whatever you call him. Supreme Leader all day.

[Afroman]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Would you want something like that?

[Afroman]

Yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

And what would the laws be on this micronation?

[Afroman]

No. N word. Black people used to be slaves in America. I believe about 30% of white Americans could afford to have slaves. Which leaves 70% middle class white people who didn't have slaves. These people lived in cities. The 30% that had slaves had big farms. When slavery was abolished and they told the slaves that they couldn't have them on their property anymore, these slaves migrated into the cities where the middle class white people lived, where the 70% middle class white people lived. Of course the middle class white people don't want the freed slaves to think that they are equivalent to them. They don't want to eat with the slaves, they don't want the slaves sitting next to them. The middle class white people, they move out of the inner city, the city they built for themselves. But they wanted to get away from the slaves, so they left and they built suburbs and they built all these other communities and they left the inner city for the newly arrived freed slaves. They called the older buildings that they done already lived in all the dilapidated buildings, the ghetto. They call this the black neighborhood. A black neighborhood in America was never designed by black people. For black people, it's just like this leftover garbage thing, you know what I'm saying? So as far as I'm concerned, a young black baby don't have a decent environment to come up in. Too many evil spirits have access to a young black child. There's no healthy place for him to grow up. I would like to have a whole bunch of land, like to fence it off. And all the black people that don't like using the N word, they don't refer to their brothers and sisters as the N word. They don't want the N word being said to their children. I would set up a nation for them and I would exclude the self proclaimed nigger. God bless him, I'll do business with him. If the world attack black people as a whole, I will help him in battle. But when peace arrives, I will separate myself from this man, I believe he contaminates and poisons the American black soul. And I create an environment where a young black person can grow up, know that they are a brother, they are Afro American. And I would nurture and raise a good citizen. And then I let him know, outside of this fence, the people outside of this fence are going to address you with the most offensive word in the English language. But just know that's not you, and just know not to do nothing with these type of people. Don't trust a person that calls you that. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's one of the main rules that I would have in my community. And then all the other sensible laws like, of course, don't steal, don't kill. But the only one that I think I'd have is like, you can't say the N word. And if somebody invites somebody over and they use the N word, I'd have my own security guards pull up and ask that person to leave our environment.

[Andrew Callahan]

Would you allow white liberal visitors and volunteers?

[Afroman]

Yes, you can come visit. You can come visit. And matter of fact, we actually need some white residents because if the government find out that it's all black people living here, they might fly over to Top and just blow us up.

[Andrew Callahan]

I'm trying to think if that's been attempted before. You had the new Africa Republic in the Southeast. You had Black Hammer in Colorado, but that was kind of like poisoned by nonprofit money. And then you have the Gullah Geechee Nation in the Sea Islands in South Carolina. And I think they're trying to build something like an intentional community with more direct connections to Africa.

[Afroman]

Okay, young people, I could say that I'd be proud of where you come from and where you going. They say the world is your oyster. You just gotta get out there, find your name, niche, but never forget where you come from. From what I understand, Africans sold black people around the world. So I don't even really want to call myself African American. I'm still an Afro American. I know I'm of African descent. And like I say, if the world wants to kill black people all at one time, I'm down to help my African brothers sisters fight. I don't want to patronize backstabbers and betrayers. I don't want to patronize the people that betrayed me and call myself African. And then they get this arrogance like we're to be like them. They want to rap like us, they want to be cool like us. And I'm not mad at them. I just. I'm an Afro American. I am an American. You wouldn't take a lion out of the zoo and put him back in the wild. But you know a person to tell me to go back to Africa. I can't. I don't know what's going on over there. I don't know. I'm an American, I can survive in America. I know America, this is what I know. So I'm looking for Afro Americans. I'm with the good people. I'm with humanity. Just because you're black, you might not be a good man, you might be a bad man. So if you. I'm not with nobody bad. I'm not bad. I'm not down with no bad black people. I'm not down with no bad white people. I'm not down with no bad Mexicans. I'm not down with nothing bad. I'm down with everything good. Afro Americans need a home. We've been misplaced. If the government and society doesn't give me some land or something, I'll go buy it, I'll build it. The Chinese man don't come up to me and ask me to build China for him. He goes and he builds it for himself.

[Andrew Callahan]

We just visited a whites only community in Arkansas.

[Afroman]

Yeah, I'm with it, I'm with it. I don't mind them having a whites only, but just don't get mad when I have a black one. And what I believe is this, if you're a white extremist, you have the right to find you some land and be extreme. I got the right to find me some land and be extreme. But we both should be able to come to a neutral zone and in that neutral zone we should get along. We should both be able to go to Walmart.

[Andrew Callahan]

So Walmart is the racial pacification zone.

[Afroman]

Like, well, it's an example. It's an example.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, I know what you mean though. The public, the third space, it's like, like this.

[Afroman]

When I go to the airport, I know I gotta compromise everything because I'm around everybody. You go to the airport, I gotta share. This dude might be a. He might be something I don't like. But we're at the airport, we need, we gotta get along. We got a flight. This is not the time place, it's boom. There need to be places like that. And then when you're ready to be extreme, go to your section and be extreme. And that goes for me too. When I'm ready to be Afro American and I'm ready to play My soul music and eat my collard greens and cornbread and pick my afro and say right on and pop my low rider. I need my section where I don't disturb my white brother that may not like that loud rap music. He may not like all the cars slamming and hopping and all that type stuff. He needs to breathe. He needs his environment. I need my environment. You go to the zoo, every animal has their own little environment. If you're a polar bear, they hook up the refrigerator for you because you're a different animal than this lion over here. This lion say, turn that air off, man. It's cold in this damn place. You know what I'm saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

But going back to Palmdale, though, you talked about how suburbs were built to escape, escape black migration out of fear of retribution in the inner cities after.

[Afroman]

No, they just didn't want to be. They. They never feared paying them back. They don't fear that now. They don't. They're not going to pay black people, but they didn't want to be around them.

[Andrew Callahan]

But there's some speculation that I've seen before that the gentrification of Los Angeles and other cities can be kind of seen as like a reverse white flight. Because now that the cities are cleaning up and integrating, you have suburban youth flocking to the cities to find culture, and in turn, the price gets raised. And I'm wondering if you know about the Cash for Homes program and how they were basically convincing families in South LA and elsewhere to move to Palmdale and Lancaster and offering them, like, briefcases full of cash to this business.

[Afroman]

Yeah, yeah. What I heard was, you know, at first, white people left South Central LA. They said black people couldn't come west of the 110 freeway. My dad told me that white boys used to chase him out of Compton. I'm going to repeat that. My dad told me white boys used to chase him out of Compton, across Imperial to Watts. White people moved to the suburbs. White people gave up Compton, gave that big court building. The black people let them have it all right? They gave up Compton, they gave up South Central, and they went wherever they went. Let's say Palmdale, let's say Simi Valley, all them outskirts cities. Then they want to blow their brains out from that traffic every day. So now, after about 20 years, 20, 40, 50 years of that traffic, white people are saying, look, put the gang members and the black people out here in the desert and we'll stay back in the city and don't have to drive that much. So that I hear that the Regentrification and all of this stuff is going on. I was in Inglewood. I seen a white girl on a skateboard with a dog pulling her.

[Andrew Callahan]

A dog pulling her.

[Afroman]

I was like, what is she doing? I was like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I mean, you know, okay, that's cool. You know, I was just, you know. But it's just like Inglewood, you know? All right. Dang. Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

So getting to another theme, which is divorce. I heard you mention it twice today. Seems like you had two particular divorces in your life. One was the divorce of your parents that kind of prompted you to drop out of high school and take music more seriously. Then you had your divorce with, I guess, your first wife. Later in time, that prompted you to travel around, meet different players, and kind of start getting your style turned up. Can you tell me about the impact of that first one?

[Afroman]

Yeah, you know, like, I trip on how soon as you get me married. Your wife can stop doing her duties, but you can't stop doing yours. And if you leave, you gotta pay even more money. Marriage is like a short end of the stick thing for the man. Marriage is good for the woman. Cuz soon as she get married, she can stop going to the gym, she can eat, you know, fart on you late at night, don't cook for you, go fuck other dudes. What are you gonna do? Divorce me and give me half of your shit? You know what I'm saying? So my mom was real religious and she thought it was a sin to go with a girl and not be married with her, not be married to her. But my mom and my dad was divorced, so I didn't get a chance to hang out with my dad too much until after he moved to Mississippi. So later on in Mississippi, after I got married, my dad was like, son, now watch this. She gonna try to divorce you to take a lot of money. He started advising me and he taught me a whole lot, so I had to learn. Oh, that's why women want to get married married. It's a low key hustle slash lick. You know, they have divorce parties now. Like, what the fuck you mean? You know what I'm saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

So when you sign that marriage contract, it's a prenuptial agreement that automatically.

[Afroman]

I believe the right woman can get around that. The right lawyer, right woman, you know, people biased. Look at what they was trying to do to me in court. Like, you know, like them cops were walked after beating Rodney King's ass. So the wrong judge, wrong court, wrong woman. That prenuptial agreement don't mean nothing. They. They'll get it still.

[Andrew Callahan]

So do you believe in marriage as a construct?

[Afroman]

I do. I believe in. I believe in. Look here, homie, look here. I seen a teacher. I seen a teacher whisper in somebody's ear. He go. He go, tell it to the person behind you. He started at the end of the class. And they pac man this shit up and down the aisle. And by the time it got over there, it was nothing like what he said over here. You see what I'm saying? So, like, what did God really say? Who really wrote the Bible? Like. Like, marriage is cool, but maybe you didn't even like, what the hell? If I like a girl and she like me, we should go together. And what I like about this is, soon as she stopped loving me and stopped doing right, I can do the same. Now where all this paperwork come in at? You know what I'm saying? Oh, she can go suck everybody's dick, but I still gotta pay her. And. No, that sound like a bad. I was just thinking, like, I could have a whole bunch. I got this one girl right now. She does everything right. She caters to me, she cooks. She brings my food to me. She sews my buttons on my suits. When I pop them, I go talk to some other girls. They'll be, like, snorting coke and drinking and loud and using the N word. And you know what? There's a side of me that feels like I want to be with this

[Andrew Callahan]

chick you want to be with. Not the crazy one, but the one who helps you out with your.

[Afroman]

Yeah, if two people want to be with each other, they'll be with each other. You see what I'm saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Afroman]

If she wants to be with you, she'll be with you. And she might only want to be with you six months. She might only want to be with you a year. She might only want to be with you two years. Me and my homies from 83rd, we still homies to this day, we go over each other's house. Cause we want to be over there. We been friends 30, whatever, damn near 40 years. We want to go over each other's house. We want to crack them beers. We want to shake each other hand and play our music. We want to see each other. And when a girl want to see you and you want to be with her, that's marriage to me. All these paperwork and all these strangers that come into your life telling you you need to give her this and that and that. There's a. There's a side of me at 51 years old in 2026 that, that thinks something is fishy. I like the Bible. But then, you know, I'm hearing all this stuff about King James. A lot of stuff is making sense now. Slaves, obey your masters. Turn the other cheek, you, you know, how come you don't turn the other cheek, yo. So I'm not saying it's false, but I believe that God will sympathize with my confusion. If I created a creature, I would understand that. He don't understand. God created me so he know I can't verify all this stuff. Everybody's hollering, so I think he's going to look at my heart and, and do what he's going to do from there. So. So marriage to me is me and a young lady wanting to be with each other. And that can stop anytime. Now. Your girl can break up with you in her mind, go out and start fucking everybody, sucking they dick. Now, you still married on paperwork, but that spirit is gone so far as I'm concerned. Fuck this paperwork. Why even have it in the first place? Bitch, you gonna love me today, oh, you don't love me tomorrow. Okay, well, we gonna, we gonna do an easier divorce. We're gonna do the kind of divorce we used to do in the third grade. Make sure the teacher ain't looking. That's the divorce. It's simple. It ain't all this traumatizing shit.

[Andrew Callahan]

I guess like the core question is, does that belief about marriage more stem from you observing your parents, or is it more like your experience with marriage?

[Afroman]

Everything my parents really ain't got nothing to do with. Cause my mom's a good lady and I understand what my dad's. And my dad was illustrating to me how my mom didn't spend no time with him. He said she always down at the job, she run down to the school. My mama, low key, unconsciously broke up with my dad. She didn't want to be around him. So she'd load up her college courses, she'd stay at work, then she'd open up a business. And my dad like, where's she at? You know, so it's like this. They wasn't broke up, but they was broke up. If we ain't together, we apart. So if you like me, you like me, you gonna be where you wanna be. The players say she choose. The players say a female choose a player, fix itself up and you stand up tall, he stand upright. And a woman, look, she like that one. Even in Animal Kingdom, I guess this cheetah, she was giving off a scent and there was like five male lepers following her. She'd stop and turn around. They'd all sit and look like, we ain't. Like, we don't smell your pussy. We're not following you, you know. So finally she indicated to the one she wanted. The other ones kind of congratulated him, and he moved on to the top of the hill and mounted her. A female chooses, even in Animal World. So I believe in getting chose and I believe in two people being where they want to be.

[Andrew Callahan]

Going back to your parents, did you feel like that emotional distance that your mom created, like, kind of broke your dad's spirit a bit at that time?

[Afroman]

Like, did you notice it's mathematics? My dad tell me how his boss used to bust him. My dad used to work for Caltrans, and he said he had this bush on the freeway he used to get the best sleep at. My dad said he had a supervisor that busted him without busting him. He said, foreman. Look here, I ain't saying you ain't working. All I'm saying is I don't see it. Fuck where you was at. Fuck what I can't prove I don't see you. So my dad come home from work. You know, he married. But where's my wife? Is she here? She gone. So I'm married and single at the same time. I'm married to some paperwork, sitting in the courthouse. But my actual woman is moving around. She's not with me. She didn't choose me. She chose to be somewhere else. Amen. So, you know, marriage is an action. You know, it's an everyday action. You could be married to me today and you not married to me today, tomorrow.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, I just remember yesterday you were talking about the ideal marriage situation is like, the man goes out, hustles, gets it, brings it home, and the woman holds it down. You know, I wonder if that was informed by like, your experience watching the like.

[Afroman]

A marriage is an institution. A marriage is a company. Your family last name is a company name brand. Your company helps your family survive. Your wife, she feed, feeds you. She washes your clothes, she packs your lunch, she takes care of your kids, cleans your house. You don't want to come home to no laundry, dirty dishes. You know what I'm saying? She is your vice president. You're running the world, she's running the house. And it's a company. That's why when you break up, they make you give her half of it because she helped you run that Company. And now that she's parting ways with it, you need to give her something that's gonna help. As she looked for another business partner.

[Andrew Callahan]

Do you think it's natural for a man to be with just one woman for his whole life?

[Afroman]

Okay. I ask myself, why does a bull have 12 heifers? Now I eat a bull on a plate and this man has a better sex life than me. There's a side of me that says I can have as many women as I want. The key is getting the women to accept. If I can talk a woman into accepting other women, then. Okay, what's your problem? Excuse me? We're living life, liberty. And my pursuit of happiness. I heard it was immoral. I heard God don't like it. At the same time, I see bulls with 12 heifers. An alpha male fights you over all his women. If you can take care of a woman, why should another man enjoy what he's not paying for, what he's not supporting?

[Andrew Callahan]

But you felt like true romantic love before, right? Like, head over heels butterflies, Full emotional investment.

[Afroman]

Yeah, brother.

[Andrew Callahan]

And like, do you feel like that always expires?

[Afroman]

Like at some point there is a way to nurture. Nurture it. It's a way to keep things healthy. I believe people should have two rooms. They should have two rooms and a center room.

[Andrew Callahan]

I'm on board for that.

[Afroman]

Yeah. I believe there should be a center room. Then there should be a his and her room. There's a side of me that think both people should still masturbate. How can you make me happy when you don't even make yourself happy? How can you give me something you don't have? You don't love yourself, but you're gonna come loving us. You know, you ain't took a bath, you ain't got no rest, you ain't shampooed your hair, but you ain't brushed your teeth, but you want to kiss me.

[Andrew Callahan]

It'd be nice to have separate bathrooms, too, because, you know, girls always have so much shit in there. I could do seven in one. Or maybe 12 in one. Every body wash purpose?

[Afroman]

I suggest that every man have a house in his company. I believe a man should keep all his important stuff in his company. Everything you have in the same house with the lady should be disposable. So, like, if she crosses you, you could just hang up the ph and you don't even gotta go back there no more. She can burn that little weenie shirt she got hanging in the closet, you know what I'm saying? But she can't get ahold of your birth certificate, you know, so you gotta get your house deeds, keep your bases covered.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yes, definitely. So yesterday we kind of concluded with talking about. Because I got high dropping. You go to New York, you get this fat publishing check, your life pops off fast. What's a way that you splurge? Did you save or were you like going party mode for those couple years?

[Afroman]

Well, I put the money up and I let Universal have too much access to it. They fucked it off. When I went on, you know, live and Learn, they was giving me big money, so I didn't want to go against them. So I didn't know when to say no. I didn't know when to put my foot down at first.

[Andrew Callahan]

Like, in what sense? Like, what kind of things would they request of you?

[Afroman]

As far as they wanted. They gave me the check, but they didn't let it go. They was holding it as they gave it to me, they were like, we want to put this in a joint account so this guy here can pay your bills while you're on tour. And whoopty woot, they were saying stuff like that. If I do it now, I wouldn't have a joint account with him. I said, hey, let go of the check. Let go, go of it. All right, thank you. And then I wouldn't go on tour. I take their check, get on my airplane, fly back home to my bank and deposit it into my bank with no. With no whatever from them.

[Andrew Callahan]

Did you move from Hattiesburg to LA after this whole.

[Afroman]

No, I stayed in Hattiesburg. I went out to the country and bought me some bigger land.

[Andrew Callahan]

So you went out to the country. You never had like a urge to move to Hollywood or do something like that?

[Afroman]

Yeah, I get them urges I done got addicted to, to space and peace. And I'm over the whole Village People life. Like, I think people are too close to each other. All the peace I feel right now I wish I could give to every other human being. I really think we all need about 100 acres a piece. Go see people when you want to, but everybody just need that peace.

[Andrew Callahan]

So throughout the entire, I guess post fame process, you never moved to a major city to like buy a condo by the water or something?

[Afroman]

Nah, man. Cause because I'm living too big, man. I got a garage big as this place right here, if not a little bit bigger. Where am I put all my cars? You know, I'm a LA boy, you know, I can't leave my lowriders in the snow. I want space and I Can't get no space in a city. A city is where a rich man warehouses labor. You ever seen that movie Trading Places? Yeah, Duke and Duke, did they live in Philadelphia?

[Andrew Callahan]

No way.

[Afroman]

No, they got in they Rolls Royces and they was way out somewhere. And then when they was read to manipulate their laborers, they hop in the back of their Rolls Royce and they sell into the city where everybody's piled up and they manipulate people. Hey you, you're broke, your rent's high, Come here, jump on one foot. You know that type stuff.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's kind of crazy how you talk about how you love space and peace, but you also tour more than most rappers ever have. Like I, I saw the, obviously with all the coverage of the trial. I think when they were grilling you, they were asking you how often do you perform every. Every year. And you said hundreds of times per year.

[Afroman]

How many live performances did you do last year, roughly? Possibly 250. I think 250 shows was, was being modest. I doubt If I take 65 days off in a year.

[Andrew Callahan]

This makes sense why you like space and peace so much. It's a necessary component to your volume of touring.

[Afroman]

Man, you can say that, but it's, it's like when I'm done, I'm done. Like if I'm not getting paid, I'm home. That's my thing. I send people to the store. I don't want to go in public. If I'm not getting paid, I'm at home.

[Andrew Callahan]

One of the best things about last night too was just seeing how stoked each person was at the bar that you were there. You're like at the top of the news cycle right now. Technically, I bet you could probably sell out like a multi thousand person venue in LA or something like that. But you're here in Clayton, Indiana at a dive bar that looks like it's only had a handful of live performances. But now at Afroman, man of the hour is there. And it was cool because I felt like each person there is gonna be a lifelong fan. Cause they're like, afroman came to our town. To you. What's the importance of hitting small town dive bars and those kind of venues?

[Afroman]

I love small towns. They're easy to promote in. It's easy to be a big deal. The people are grateful because they don't get that much entertainment. So they're not too good to dance, they're not too good to have a good time. But if you go to Vegas, you know, people sit back and smoke a cigarette looking at you in the corner and shit. So that's what I like about a. They don't mind getting a lot of merchandise and getting a picture with you and really experiencing you, you know what I'm saying? What I didn't realize was it's the small towns that make your star go on Hollywood Boulevard. I'm from la, couldn't get no record deal, nothing. I went to them little small towns in Mississippi. They flew me out for the Grammys, the red carpet. All those little towns that I played told Hollywood, hey, this guy is a star. And Hollywood go, oh, see, LA is a city you go to after you make it. You don't try to make it from la. That's the part I didn't get. That's a retirement. That's a fame retirement city, you know, Cuz everybody's going to go to. All the little town people are going to go visit LA and they're going to walk the Hollywood strip. So Hollywood has the say. All right, look, we got a bunch of country flying into town. We need something they recognize and like. Oh, they like Larry the Cable guy put his star right here. Oh, now the country people can pose by the Larry the Cable. Oh, everybody likes Ice Cube, Everybody likes Snoop Dogg. Put him a star here that everybody come look at his star. Oh, well, they like Afro man, put his star here.

[Andrew Callahan]

You got the star yet?

[Afroman]

No, I'mma apply. I'mma. I think I might can ask for it now. Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yo, so I'm here at the Hollywood Walk of Fame and I just called the office and asked them what it would take take to get a star of my own. And you're never going to believe what they told me. They told me that I had to do a show in Phoenix, Arizona this month at the celebrity theater on April 24, and that I had to bring all the native homies out to really make it a goddamn movie in the southwestern plateau. That's right, you heard it here first. C5 Carnival is coming to the big Az, the big P, as I call it. And not just me, but also Hunter Biden will be in the building. Indigenous Enterprise and myself will be in the building screening the pilot for a TV show in which I personally executive produced and kind of starred in. And the Homing the Tawny Means also playing a set. So we have four heavy hitters, two documentaries, one talent show coming to Phoenix. Buy yourself a ticket. I'll see you there. Arizona on top. You know, it's a. All right, you ready to get into the trial?

[Afroman]

Yes, sir.

[Andrew Callahan]

Now that we Got some of that stuff covered. I appreciate it, man. Thanks for answering all those questions. I just got a lot of I was curious about, so I'm happy we got to bounce all that off before we get into the big story of the day. But before we get into that, what role did 911 play in your life?

[Afroman]

I believe it distracted the day that was supposed to belong to me. Like I was supposed to own the news cycle that next day.

[Andrew Callahan]

What was planned for that next day?

[Afroman]

Me. I did the correct Kilborn. It was hot. I was the talk of the nation. I was the talk of the world. I was the talk of the world. Nothing was bigger than because I got high except the fucking Empire State Building crumbling to the ground. I could not compete with that.

[Andrew Callahan]

Definitely. It was a big deal.

[Afroman]

Oh, my God.

[Andrew Callahan]

Rip. To all those who passed away.

[Afroman]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

All right, into the trial, what was our justification?

[Afroman]

An unconfidential informant got into some trouble. She just to get the handcuffs off of her, she told them that I had all kind of weed. Kidnapping victims. Just the most unbelievable stuff ever. And that same day, with no research, they get like a quick ass search warrant signed. They came over, you know, to my house based on that lady's words. I figured if she was gonna lie on me, she'd tell a believable lie. But she just jumped on the craziest, goofiest stuff. He got a dungeon, kidnapping victims.

[Andrew Callahan]

A dungeon.

[Afroman]

A dungeon. Wow. So they came over my house looking for a dungeon and looking for kidnapping victims. You know what I'm saying? Plus, they already didn't like me anyway, you know? Yeah, I see their facial expressions when I'm around town. I speak to them, they don't speak back. And, you know, that whole thing.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. I think myself and a lot of people wondered, what was the extent of your interactions with the Adams County Sheriff's Department prior to. To the raid?

[Afroman]

Well, people was breaking in my house when I went on tour. The insurance people will pay me back if I could just turn in a police report. I tried to get a police report. Mug don't come out till like a week later. He takes my report and I ask him for a copy, but he don't give it to me. I asked at the station, and so I never got the money to reimburse me because they never would give me the report. Like, I stopped calling them. Like, I used to call up there and consistently just check on the progress of my investment. And they begin getting hostile because I was consistent. Hey, listen, if you call up Here again, it will get addressed. I'm like, you know, he's just setting up, you know, a foundation for a fight now, you know? So I'm like, all right. I just stopped calling him. I figured I put up my cameras and whoever steal from me, we'll figure out something, you know what I'm saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

Who was breaking into your house? Do you know?

[Afroman]

No, no, I didn't have up cameras when I was getting broken into. That's why I put up cameras, because I didn't know who was breaking in my house.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's a pretty small town, right?

[Afroman]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

How many people live in this town?

[Afroman]

You know, we might have a couple hundred thousand. It's the whole Adams County. There's like five little cities in Adams County. There's little city of Winchester, little city of Seaman, little city of West Union, little city of Manchester. So I'm gonna say 2 to 300,000 people, but possibly less people were breaking

[Andrew Callahan]

into your house because they knew like, yo, that's Afro Man's house. He's probably got money in there.

[Afroman]

Little bit of everything, man, you know what I'm saying? They knew I was Afro man then. They might have been broke on some dope. They know I got some weed in there or something, you know? Yeah, everybody know he's gone, he's on tour.

[Andrew Callahan]

But you had never been like arrested or anything by this department beforehand?

[Afroman]

No.

[Andrew Callahan]

So I'm just trying to figure out why they would engage in such an outrageous raid.

[Afroman]

Well, I'm gonna tell you something. One time, my ex wife, she kicked down my door. I called the police on her. They take a long time to come. They never. And when I say, when they finally get there, I told them I wanted to press charges. They told me they didn't have no room in the jail. If that would have been me kicking down somebody's door, first of all, I would have got shot. For some reason I noticed they always got room in the jail for me. If they ain't got no room in the jail, they'll make me spend the night in the back of the squad car. At first I thought they was racist, but now that I talk to all the white people that live there, what I realize is they're just corrupt. They might call me the N word or something, but they just corrupt, dude. You know what I'm saying? They. They're doing white people bad. They doing people bad. They're doing taxpaying, law abiding citizens bad. That's why we the people got to get in there and fix that so

[Andrew Callahan]

you think when, when you say corruption, that kind of suggests that they broke into your house or raided your home just to steal stuff? Because if it's not racially or fame motivated, like, if it's not, you know, racially charged, I'm trying to figure out,

[Afroman]

well, you know, it's a little bit off all of that. Now who we talking about breaking in my house? We talking about thieves or the police?

[Andrew Callahan]

The Adams County Sheriff's Department. Basically, what was their intention in doing this raid? Like, what was your.

[Afroman]

They wanted millions of pounds of whatever drug they was looking for and they

[Andrew Callahan]

thought you had it?

[Afroman]

Yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

Okay, gotcha.

[Afroman]

And they thought I had kidnapping victims. They thought I had people tied up in a dungeon.

[Andrew Callahan]

And your kids and partner were home at the time? Yeah.

[Afroman]

Yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

And how did they react to what happened?

[Afroman]

Okay, you know, of course it was shocking, scary and traumatized, you know, to say the least.

[Andrew Callahan]

What did your kids tell you about how it impacted them?

[Afroman]

Like, they don't know if it's just because I'm black or not. You know, they see what being black can bring them. It's like this deep thought thing. It's this unescapable reality. It's like sometime when I speak to them, they got this low tone. When they speak back, hey, how y' all doing? They're like, hi, dad. And I don't know, you know, I'm like, yeah, I'm sorry. Like, you know, I'm sorry. This is what we got deal with. And I'm sorry. It's just that thing that they gotta face. That's why I attack these cops. Cause I gotta make a better world for my kids. I don't want these people knocking on my kids door like that. I did what I could, you know, A turtle goes in his shell, a skunk stinks. Well, I'm a rapper. I rap my ass off about them damn cops, you know what I'm saying? Because I don't like what they did to my children. You know, speaking and smiling at the school, but just showing up to shoot. They dropped daddy, you know what I'm saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

How many kids did you have living there at the time?

[Afroman]

Two.

[Andrew Callahan]

How old were they?

[Afroman]

Well, they 13 and 16 now. So what would they be in 20, 22?

[Andrew Callahan]

Around 11 and like 9 and 12.

[Afroman]

Yeah, there it is.

[Andrew Callahan]

You mentioned that low tone you noticed, like emotional and psychological changes.

[Afroman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I, I know, I know. Deep depression, stuff that depress you. Just knowing we're all going to die one day. Everywhere you, you look, just knowing you A target just knowing that a heat sinking missile of hate is, is following you through your whole life. And then when they realize, you know, like, damn, this is the, this is the path I gotta walk.

[Andrew Callahan]

And had you more or less been able to shelter them from that reality prior to the incident?

[Afroman]

Yeah, so, you know, I live a law abiding. I don't, I don't grow my kids up in South Central. I'm a law abiding, tax paying citizen. I got land. I don't want them living in an apartment complex and fighting with the kids next door door and walking through gang bangers trying to get home from school. Yes, we go pick them up from school, we don't even want them riding the bus.

[Andrew Callahan]

It goes back to what you were saying about that intentional community or micronation you wanted to.

[Afroman]

Man, my kids need somewhere that nurtures them mentally, physically, emotionally. You know, we raise in the. You raise corn, you raise cotton, you raise kids. And as I raise them, I don't want them getting damaged and trauma. I want to give society some good people. So cops showing up with guns and I didn't do nothing? No, man, think about your kid. You want anybody throwing your kid on the hood of a squad car, kicking his ankles, telling him to open up his legs, you might lose it, brother. If you literally watch your biological blood child getting whatevered by some police officers, you might be willing to give up the ghost. Like, you know what? This memory is not worth life. Living for the rest of my life and having to the point where, man, you know what? Watching you do my dart like that, I'm gonna have to go ahead and get down with you, brother. Yeah, man, I forget the original question. I don't know how far away I drifted away, but.

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, it's more like, how do these feelings influence your decision to make the songs that you did after the raid? Cause it goes back to what your dad said to you when you were a kid making Harry Cary in eighth grade. And kind of how you remain defensive, but when attacked you don't stand down. But you use creative means to achieve a. The objective.

[Afroman]

Yeah, you know, you don't want necessarily want to run up on the police. They was there after me. They didn't fuck with my kids. I just didn't like my kids seeing it. And then if I'm not a bad dude, what's all these rifles and shit out for? You know, like, I seen homicide detectives walk up to the guy they're about to arrest, gun in holster, clipboard down by their leg. Hey man, you need to come with us downtown, man. We gotta talk. They don't run up to a dude like they did me, you know what I'm saying? Even on 48 hours, you know, you watch a cop walk up to one guy with his gun in his holster, say, hey, let's go downtown. And then you watch him go up to another dude, you know, with the guns all out and all that type stuff when it ain't necessary. Like they did all that stuff to Puff Daddy. They brought the tanks, they brought all that stuff, right? Did they have to do that to arrest him? No. They walked up to him in the hotel like, how you doing? Let's go. He was like, okay, buddy. So all that shit was for sure, that was intimidation. That's bullying. So, you know, they was trying to intimidate and bully me. So I was ready to play the bully game with them. And then they lost the bully game. With all they AR15s and Beetle Bailey helmets and battleships, who is the biggest pussies in court crying about they feelings hurt? Is it the rapper that don't got nothing but some dirty rap songs? Or is the big bad boys with the AR15s who's crying? I realized they was bullying me, so I bullied them back. And come to find out they are some bullies. And bullies are usually the biggest wimps. They're unsympathetic, they're unconsiderate, they're inconsiderate. And come to find out he has some kind of psychological effect. So look at the bullies crying. Who I whining?

[Andrew Callahan]

How'd you feel when you saw Lisa crying in court?

[Afroman]

Look here, brother, I'm not trying to bully her. Those tears are fake. She wasn't. She's playing a tough guy. Let's cut the crap. We playing this equality game. We gonna say men and women are equal, right? Okay. Lisa is equivalent to a man. Hey, man, this ain't no time to be crying. Hey, man, check this out, man. You wasn't crying, man, when you was in my yard with that AR15, man. Equal person. Now, you want to play your female with your face facing the jury. And I ain't mad at her. She. You know what a woman cop reminds me of? They remind me of a quarterback. He's a big bad football player until he's about to get tackled, then he slides. He puts his dress on and he slides.

[Andrew Callahan]

What did you learn throughout the, I guess, lyrical research process that shocked you the most about these group of officers slash plaintiffs?

[Afroman]

How they were criminals worse than Me. And they shouldn't be in my house. Like, I smoke a little weed, I chase weed, women. But I'm a law abiding, taxpaying citizen. Brian Newland's a pedophile. His brother's a pedophile. Mike Estep has an ex convict for a wife. I believe birds of a feather flock together. I mean, people never said that, saying for no reason. Sean Grooms, he lied, said I'm the reason for his divorce. I made his wife my only witness. So he's a liar. Now. Let me ask you a question. Should a liar be a deputy sheriff? Answer my question, brother. Should a liar that got all of that power and access to your life and freedom, should a liar be a deputy sheriff?

[Andrew Callahan]

No. He's got to uphold the Constitution.

[Afroman]

Amen. So look at these motherfuckers they got walking around in my house. They got a liar walking around in my house. They got a pedophile walking around in my house. They got a thief walking around in my house. And then they got a vandal. They got an insecure vandal that don't even know if I fucked his wife or not.

[Andrew Callahan]

Did you.

[Afroman]

You know what? I'mma just say, yeah. It feels better when I say yeah. I think about him flipping off my camera. Yeah. You know, he don't know. He don't know. He's at home having unnecessary arguments, beating her ass. You know what I'm saying? I think I might. You know, I seen her. I seen her the other day, man. Hey, baby got back, so I don't know. Hey, man, I might have to look into that. I might have to do a little investig. Hey, hey, hey. Cause you know Randy gonna fuck up. You know he gonna fuck up.

[Andrew Callahan]

So, going back to before the trial, right after the raid, what came first? Publishing the songs that you made or, like, did you try to first reach out to the police directly to get restitution privately for the damages they caused?

[Afroman]

You know what? I asked Randy Walters if they was gonna fix my door. He said, we're not required to do that now. Dude, I'm black. I'm accustomed to getting done wrong by the public. I just lick my own wounds because I'm accustomed to these dudes doing me wrong. And I know I can't do nothing about it. I'm gonna go down to the station. And do what? Get arrested and beat up. And, you know, I didn't go down. I didn't go down to the station. I didn't make a phone call. Cause I didn't want them saying That I was harassing them and they was arresting me. I left them alone. I went back to my little black slave world and started making rap songs. And here they are, the big high and mighty police, all in my wall world with my fans, friends, and family. I thought they was tripping, you know, I just licked my wounds.

[Andrew Callahan]

And what was the first song you put out?

[Afroman]

I think it was lemon pound cake.

[Andrew Callahan]

And was there an immediate, like, blow up?

[Afroman]

Yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

What do you think people resonated with in that song? Why do you think that it reached so many people? Do you feel like it drew on a lot of personal, unspoken experiences?

[Afroman]

People like funny stuff. It was just funny. I was like, look at this physically challenged officer right here. I said it like that, and I'm physically challenged. So I got the right to say something about another physically challenged people. Like, we're, brother. We're physically challenged brothers. We can crack jokes the skinny homies can't crack, right? Me and you can crack a joke. And they're like. I'm like, wait a minute. Hang on. What you say, man? Hey, hang on, homie. The skinny dude said something, you know? So I said, look at the physically challenged dude coming in right here. I was like, watch the physically challenged cop. I like, he wants some of that pound cake. You can go to my TikTok and scroll down to the original post that went viral. I'm like, he wants some of that lemon pound cake, man. And that TikTok went crazy. I usually have about dude, before the case, it was only. I only had 200,000 people. I had to be humble on the stand. I'm like, there's other people bigger than me, but I'm all right. I hit a meal last night. This case brought me 800,000 followers in the last five, six days. That shit was changing in front of me. It was kind of spooky. Hey, hey. Every time I refresh.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, it was kind of frustrating hearing them, like, grill you in court, Basically suggesting that because you popped off so much after the media attention around this trial, that somehow you weren't taking the situation seriously enough by taking the crap. Create a route instead of just, like, fighting it silently in civil court.

[Afroman]

Nah, brother. You know what I'm saying? I'm a black man in America. I don't feel like the court is my friend. I don't feel like the police are my friend. The police officers were invented to keep freed slaves in line. Their job is to do bad things to me. Mexicans are just getting ice. Black people had ice. And it's not. It's like an internal ice. They can't get rid of us, so they need a department divided. Voted to fucking with us, doing this dirtying and keeping us away from the white population they're trying to protect or whatever. Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

How did you feel about the Black Lives matter movement in 2020?

[Afroman]

Everybody feel like they feel. I don't think people should get mad about a statement. I'm not a part of that organization. And none of that. I trip on how the statement. Just that statement pisses people off. They say all lives matter. Let me ask you a question.

[Andrew Callahan]

What's the percentage of all 13.5% of America's black.

[Afroman]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now, a lot of people say all lives matter, right? What Percentage is all?

[Andrew Callahan]

100%.

[Afroman]

All is 100%. All lives matter. But a black life don't matter. Now let me ask you another question. Do all lives matter?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yes. But when it's in direct respect.

[Afroman]

No, no, no, no, no. Wait a minute. A black life doesn't matter. Well, to me it does in America. I have a black life.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Afroman]

So I want a black life to matter. Not only does a black life not matter, the statement infuriates people. The fact that you just want to feel like that. How dare you think you matter. That's how much you don't matter. I'm asking you these questions again. They say all lives matter. All is 100%. Do all lives matter? No, they don't. Because a black life don't matter 100%. All lies. They say all lives matter. But a black life don't matter. So all lives don't matter. That statement needs to be said. I'm not a part of the organization. I heard some lesbians run it and they don't even care about black people. I don't even know what's going on with it.

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, that's like. That's the Black Lives Matter, like, foundation slash, like, fundraising enterprise. I think the movement itself should be separated from whatever's going on with that because that kind of became like a talking point for Trump and shit.

[Afroman]

I just trip on how the statement pissed people off. It makes you mad when I say my life matters? Yeah. The people that say our lives matter, they'll be on a porn and say black lives don't matter. But when they're in the middle of the Walmart parking lot and that comes off kind of harsh and bad, they'll just combat black lives matter. Matter with all lives matter. But a black life don't matter. In America, black men get hung. Police shoot them. They shooting them all the time. One here, not, you know, one here, one there. Oh, the cops get off Breonna Taylor, a couple of them cops. So one of them, they did something to one of them, but a couple of them cops, they just let them off.

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, I think it matters to the institution of America because it's necessary for, like sports and entertainment. America as an LLC relies on like black art and labor and, you know, athletic ability to maintain of these different billion dollar enterprises.

[Afroman]

Okay, but what about the black men that don't play sports? What about the black man that don't jump up and catch the frisbee with his mouth? You know what I'm saying? What about the black man that doesn't get the white American approval, lock him up in prison. Charlie Kirk, we ought to bring back public executions. Right before he got shot, who was he blaming everything on? Right before he got shot? The split second. The split second right after he got shot, who was he Madden for fussing that. Who did he want to have public. Who does he want to have public executions for?

[Andrew Callahan]

I believe the final question was counting or not counting gang violence. Counting or not counting gang violence.

[Afroman]

Now let me ask you this. Who does he want to have public executions for?

[Andrew Callahan]

Gang members and those who don't abide by the law.

[Afroman]

He didn't give those gang members of color.

[Andrew Callahan]

I'm assuming he means black people, not the Aryan brotherhood.

[Afroman]

A black life don't matter to Charlie. And Charlie Kirk represents 90% of America. What does Charlie Kirk think about Juneteenth?

[Andrew Callahan]

He wanted to reverse it or abolish it.

[Afroman]

Okay, now if a black life mattered, would you do that?

[Andrew Callahan]

No, I like Juneteenth.

[Afroman]

What's wrong with me respecting myself and respecting other spirits outside of my body? What's wrong with that?

[Andrew Callahan]

Nothing.

[Afroman]

So all I'm trying to say is people say all lives matter. But in America, if you don't play your cards right, you got to know a black life don't matter. If you know a black life don't matter, you know how to move. See, I knew a black life didn't matter. That's why I took the news down to the sheriff station with me. You hear what I'm saying? If they gonna kill and hang me, they gonna do it live on the news. Because my black life to these people.

[Andrew Callahan]

And that's kind of the connection that I was drawing. Not to make it about like politics necessarily, but using the media as a tool for police accountability is what caused the black lives Matter movement to gain so much traction as far as the videotaping of the George Floyd incident in Minneapolis. And you as well, were able to use your personal platforms to put pressure on the same sheriff's department who acted recklessly.

[Afroman]

I matter if I entertain people. I make them smile. So I matter if I continue to do that. And then with. With all of the clout I got. Look at the bullshit I still went through. I'm a celebrity, and I still don't matter. $4,000,000. F this n word. He doesn't matter. These are sheriff deputies.

[Andrew Callahan]

That was the total amount of damages the plaintiffs were asking for is $4 million.

[Afroman]

Basically 3.9.

[Andrew Callahan]

Okay.

[Afroman]

Jesus Christ.

[Andrew Callahan]

How soon after the raid did you drop the first song?

[Afroman]

Fast. Probably like two weeks.

[Andrew Callahan]

Okay. And then how soon after that did the defamation suit get filed?

[Afroman]

Probably like a week or two.

[Andrew Callahan]

So this shit was happening fast. Despite the fact that it took four years, it happened really fast.

[Afroman]

Yeah, they' with me for a long time.

[Andrew Callahan]

So when you first got the paperwork notifying you that you were being sued by the sheriff's department, like, did you ever think that it would get to the point of trial?

[Afroman]

Yeah, a sheriff is like a legal Klan member. For as I was, sir, I knew. I knew everything. I knew everything bad that could happen would. Like, they was gonna go all the way with me, you know? You know, they was gonna sue. I thought maybe they was bluffing. I thought maybe they had dropped the suit. At one point. I thought I was gonna. I thought I might tell him, hey, man, look, all of y' all give me $10,000 and I won't sing about you no more. Give me this quick. Seventy hundred thousand dollars right quick, and we good.

[Andrew Callahan]

And what'd they say?

[Afroman]

Hell, no. Came back with 800,000. And I thought that was ridiculous. I damn near had a red fox heart attack in court. When he said 3.9, I'm like, hey.

[Andrew Callahan]

So that was their settlement term before trial. It was like, give us 800 bands, leave us alone.

[Afroman]

It was gradually growing as time went. At first, I think they wanted $25,000 a piece.

[Andrew Callahan]

That's not too bad, but it's pretty bad.

[Afroman]

So still no, under the circumstance that you. How you kick down my door and you want $25,000 a piece for me? Fuck you. I'm.

[Andrew Callahan]

I'm just so confused. Like, so defamation. You just made a song about people who did something to you that's documented. How were they able to make a case even to get it to that point for defamation? Like, what was the Main thing they said you were lying about.

[Afroman]

I don't know everything I said. Only thing I was lying. Maybe lick him. Lolisa is possibly not a lesbian, so maybe I was lying about her.

[Andrew Callahan]

But parody law should, should have covered.

[Afroman]

Like I was just with her. Like if I say lick him. Lisa, I'm up there. You a cop? I don't like you. I'm talking all kind of about you. I can say Lisa is Harry in the Hendersons. Somebody put up a wrestler. Oh my God. I think they said she looked like something to Hammer. What's the dude? The Hammer. He had that wild. No, it's a wrestler. Greg the Valentine. The Hammer. Greg the Greg the Hammer Valentine or something like that. Oh, they got some up to date pictures of him. He looked rough. They did like some side by side. Yeah. My point is this. I didn't, you know, I lie like that, but like everything else was truth. Okay. I, I, you know, I didn't. Randy Walters wife. But I, you know, just for tearing down my door and being unapologetic. It kind of made me laugh to know that he's insecure about his own marriage and he don't know if I her or not. And, and they're having unnecessary arguments.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, but you're not a reporter or like someone claiming to be creating an act of not nonfiction. Like you're a rapper, dirty rapper with

[Afroman]

a bottle of code 45. I can't exaggerate. Yeah but like dude privilege of being a. Nobody's listening to me, you know what I'm saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

But I mean especially like old rap like horrorcore shit like from the like the Necro early Eminem era, there was like songs about like ripping the fucking president's head off with a chainsaw.

[Afroman]

Dude, lemon pound cake, get the fuck out of here. How big of a pussy can you be, man? Mama's lemon pound cake and cops don't give a fuck about what. What you say. Clear. Pirates trap. They walk off. Cry like a. I feel like a. Just for talking after he leave. I feel like a cuz I couldn't say it to his face and squabbing and shooting his ass back, you know. And you is crying about what I said when you left. You gonna give me that much power. Oh wow. We finna have some fun.

[Andrew Callahan]

I'm trying to think maybe like how they got so hurt after the song came out. I wonder if like fans were calling the station and with them and leaving Google reviews and like doing different shit

[Afroman]

to troll them, you know. They said they got hundreds of Pound cakes sent to him. That's it. They should have took them home. He should have started selling them wholesale. They was obviously fresh and wrapped up and in good shape. Man, he just wasn't innovative. He don't got like that thing going on. He's a celebrity. He could go around being like, I'm Officer Pound Cake and have girls with bikinis and feeding them pound cake. He could play into it, but he don't got that. He ain't got that thing. Like. Like I tell him I didn't like the name Alpha for a man. I made it work. You know what I'm saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

So you and Officer Pound Cake are on relatively cordial terms?

[Afroman]

We rode the elevator down, we joked about how slow it was, but he genuinely does not like me. He like, you know, he low key, got a. And I think I just embarrassed him. And he just egotistical, you know, if we had 30 seconds in the backyard, we'd probably be boys after that.

[Andrew Callahan]

That's all it takes sometimes.

[Afroman]

Yeah. Cause he just. He just ain't never had nobody clown his ass. Yeah, he grew up in that little county. He's an alpha male. And nobody ain't never embarrassed him.

[Andrew Callahan]

So I looked into the specifics of the case, like I said, because I've been getting kind of like on my legal nerd type of tip. So it looks like you guys filed an anti slap motion, which is like a free speech protection motion. First judge denied that you appealed the anti slap motion, which is the process you do when you feel like you got a bad rap. Which by the way, the anti slap appeal process is actually going away this year because the Supreme Court, through a case called Gopher Media, is striking down the ability to appeal an anti slap motion. Meaning if you got a shitty judge and you file a. A free speech motion and they strike it down, you can't even appeal. You got to go straight to the discovery process, which is going to be a huge blow for all journalists, entertainers, anybody in the free speech realm. So anyways, you guys move to the discovery process, exchange all types of text messages, information, do this whole cyber security audit, then you move to summary judgment, which is where the judge looks over the whole process of discovery and then each side makes their case and the judge still with all the plaintiffs who sued you. So I'm curious, like, who was the judge and did they have a. Or did he or she have a personal grudge against you?

[Afroman]

The judge was this judge from Pike County. He oversaw those murders of those people. Look up the Pike County Massacre. Couple of dudes walked in his trailer with some shotguns. They shot the whole family, kids, everybody. He resided over that trial. For whatever reason, he hates me. He hates me. He clearly was not on my side from the jump. No, the Adams County Sheriff is in the same building the courthouse is in. I mean, these guys ain't buddies, you know, they don't go golfing and fishing together and, you know, so these guys are friends. All government officials. Cops and government. They're all a big gang. They all hang out with each other and they bully normal society. So, blah, blah, blah. No, he didn't like me, and no, he wasn't on my side. Yeah, he was on the side of the cops and. Yeah, what else is new and what? You know what I'm saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

It's just so, like, fucked up.

[Afroman]

Yeah, brother.

[Andrew Callahan]

A judge needs to be able to put aside their personal connections and like, whatever type of overlap they have with the police department, they should be ruling, like, objectively. It's frustrating to think that judges themselves could be compromised.

[Afroman]

Yes, yes, dude. Everybody can be compromised. Dude, on earth. This is not a perfect world. Anybody can be corrupt. Everybody got different, different motives. You gotta watch who get where. Cause you can get done. Wrong, man. You know, wrong people on the jurors, wrong judge. He helped them all the way he could. He tried to brainwash them. Ignore the fact that he's a celebrity. He was just doing everything he could to just fuck me off, give me the short end of the stick.

[Andrew Callahan]

Was there any twists and turns throughout trial? Cause you know, trial is like a roller coaster that you didn't expect.

[Afroman]

When I heard $4 million, you didn't know until trial. $4 million. Nobody told me that. $4 million million dollar. 4 million. That was a long deliberation. Eight hours of deliberation. $4 million in the air. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I was having shot at the shot of Southern Comfort.

[Andrew Callahan]

Was there any, like, testimony from the officers that you couldn't believe?

[Afroman]

I was just watching them be unaccountable and unresponsible. And all I could think about was my dad. I had to turn into my dad. You had no business over there in the first place. All of this is your fault. You shouldn't have been here in the first place. Fuck all this shit you talking. Fuck your kids crying. Your kids are crying because you made a mistake in the first place. Go where you supposed to go. Do your homework. Bust some real criminals. Get out of law abiding, taxpaying citizens. Houses all rivers lead to the ocean. All statements led back to the bottom line. You shouldn't have been in my house at the first place.

[Andrew Callahan]

And were you surprised that you won?

[Afroman]

Yeah, I. I was ready to appeal. Cause they threw my claims out, so I was ready to. I thought going to court was a waste of time. I'm supposed to be getting money from them, not breaking even. Splitting the court cost no fuckers. If I back into a lady's car, I gotta pay for that. It ain't no me sue her. I back into a lady's car, sue her, she gotta split costs with me. No, that's Debo bullying right there. That's bullshit. My dad said a man stepped on his foot and turned around, asked, hey, man, why did you put your foot underneath mine? He's the offensive person trying to make it look like you the one tripping. Debo Bully. Shit, man.

[Andrew Callahan]

So was it. Was it like a feeling of pure relief when you finally got that verdict or result?

[Afroman]

I didn't know what to think. You know, it's Adams County. It's supposed to be the most racist county in Ohio. So, you know, I know people know how to shine me on. Hey, fro, how you doing? All right. Cause I got high, okay? They were like, yeah, nigger. You know what I'm saying? So I didn't know what ugly truth they was gonna show me. I ain't know what kind of true colors they was gonna show me. But even a jury in the worst county in Ohio could see, even though I don't like n words, this dude is right. The jury seemed like some good people. They probably didn't even say that, But I just didn't know what I was gonna get. Cause you know, everybody got that little flag in their yard with that blue. Everybody's real pro police, pro Trump, pro everything. So I didn't know how they was gonna view their opportunity to get this dude that's been hopping through them little towns and Three Wheeling. And I'm pretty sure some people don't want me there.

[Andrew Callahan]

Do you feel more comfortable living there now that you stood up for yourself and came out on top?

[Afroman]

Yes. Yes. Yes, man. I believe I could be the mayor of that town. I believe I could run for sheriff.

[Andrew Callahan]

What's the name of the town?

[Afroman]

It's Adams county, but the courthouse is in West Union.

[Andrew Callahan]

Got it.

[Afroman]

Got it.

[Andrew Callahan]

So you're gonna stay in West Union?

[Afroman]

Yeah. Cause if I move, I gotta deal with another police department. It's like moving schools after you beat up all the bullies at your school. Do you Wanna go to a new school?

[Andrew Callahan]

No, you gotta hold it down.

[Afroman]

Hell fuck no. God damn, that shit's over with now. Bring the beer and the girls, all right? Let's have the revenge of the nerd parties and shit, you know what I'm saying? You know, I might build me a house in Palmdale, you know, California, it's all good at the same time it's all bad, you know, the wrong dude spot. You don't like your set, don't like your skin. I don't have to worry about gang shit in Ohio, all I gotta deal with is racism. But in California, I gotta deal with racism, gang tension, everything. So now when my son get out of high school, I am giving up Ohio winners. I'm done. I'm a tough LA boy, but I have lost this fight. I can't take it no more. I feel like Muhammad Ali when he was holding up that glove against George Foreman. Like, damn, cuz I'm a big but God damn.

[Andrew Callahan]

So you mentioned your kids a couple different times and you said one of the reasons you wanted to fight back was because you saw the change in their mind, their life after the incident. Do you feel like you've seen them change for the better now?

[Afroman]

Yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

After the victory, yes.

[Afroman]

They are proud of their daddy. They both have afros, they wear them with pride. They know to love everybody, not be rude and cocky, but they're loving themselves and everybody outside of the their bodies. So they're in good spirits. And that's what I want my. You want your children to be happy. You could be happy and your kids depressed. You created a little human that's over there sad. That has an effect on you. You don't want your child sad. You want your child running through the house. Slow down. You know, kid happy. You want your child happy. You don't want your child depressed and bullied and, and, and, and, and traumatized.

[Andrew Callahan]

So you feel like you completely your responsibility and fulfilled your duty as a father.

[Afroman]

Yes. You know, I showed them how to handle the police. Obey the law, install your cameras, know your rights, know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Now, when you living right, when you living right, you don't mind telling the truth. When you living wrong, that's the last thing you want to tell. So I tell my kids, live right and then tell the truth and tell it hard.

[Andrew Callahan]

And then. So back in 2024, you ran for president. How do you think the current guy's doing?

[Afroman]

There's things people don't like about me. So I can Pick the things I don't like about him.

[Andrew Callahan]

Trump.

[Afroman]

Yeah. I can tell you the things I like about him. I can tell you things I don't like about him.

[Andrew Callahan]

Is there anything good you think he's doing?

[Afroman]

I haven't been watching the news lately because I've been the news here lately, so I had to watch the news when you're on the news. Last I heard, we went to war with Iran, and that's the last I heard. I turned the TV off. Cause, like, you know, then I had to go to court. I had my own drama, you know, like the. Putting the Civil War generals back on all of the places. You know what I'm saying?

[Andrew Callahan]

Okay, you want to take them down?

[Afroman]

Yeah. I'm a slave. I'm a slave. Do I want to see a Confederate general's name anywhere? If you was a Jewish person, do you want to walk by statues of Hitler?

[Andrew Callahan]

Walk.

[Afroman]

No.

[Andrew Callahan]

I'd be upset.

[Afroman]

You know, I'm not gonna cry if you put one up, but do I want that? No. You know what I'm saying? So if we're gonna be one country, we shouldn't glorify the things that made another group of people feel bad. If I'm gonna say, look, we're all gonna be Americans, well, I don't want things in America to make a group of people feel disrespected. If I tell them I'm gonna include them, then I don't want nothing around to offend them. When I invite a woman in my house, I turn too short off.

[Andrew Callahan]

That's actually really good advice for the guys out there.

[Afroman]

Yeah. When a woman comes over your house, the too short tape stops.

[Andrew Callahan]

All right, what do you play for the ladies?

[Afroman]

Keith Sweat. Something that won't offend her. I tell a girl when I get with a girl, I tell her, look, there's a time for everything. I said, I'll play Too short When I'm with my buddies. You can play Beyonce. You must not know about me when you hanging with all your divorced friends. All right, but when you get in this car with me, you not gonna play a song that's gonna motivate a conflict between me and you. When we get in this car, we gonna play I Got Sunshine. It's not just the slow tempo that makes it love songs. It's actual love lyrics. Like, when you get with your girl, y' all need to sit down and listen to the lyrics of a song. Is this song gonna make us argue? Is this song gonna make us argue? Can we. A couple need to have a couple's playlist.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Afroman]

So when you get in the car, here's a playlist of songs that we agree on. So back to the point. If I'm going to say, okay, look, black people are going to be a part of America, well, I'm not going to have something around that disrespects black people and offends them. I don't like renaming all of the places Confederate generals. And I don't like giving police officers 100% immunity. Can you. Can you imagine these people that had me in the court getting 100% immunity? Liars, pedophiles, thieves. With 100% immunity and a pistol. No. So that's what I didn't like about Donald Trump. That was the real main thing I didn't like about Donald Trump is 100% immunity to people who could possibly be pedophiles, thieves, liars, you know, criminals. Camouflages. Law enforcement.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, it's not that hard to be. Become a cop.

[Afroman]

Well, we need better character in the police department.

[Andrew Callahan]

In what sense?

[Afroman]

Better morals. Be a good person. Yeah, I thought I was a bad person. I got better character than those police officers.

[Andrew Callahan]

I guess the problem is, in my experience, it seems like the kind of people who gravitate toward wanting to be cops are the exact kind of people you wouldn't want to be cops.

[Afroman]

Like, well, that's why.

[Andrew Callahan]

Disempowered and bullied.

[Afroman]

That's why there should be a board,

[Andrew Callahan]

like a civilian approval board, almost like jurors that like, question a cop and be like, do I want this guy pulling me over if I'm going 5 above the limit?

[Afroman]

Right, right. Like, we need to pick cops like a girl, pick a guy to her.

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, thanks so much for your time, man. Congrats on the victory. I appreciate it. Hope it was a good interview for you.

[Afroman]

I hope it was one for you because.

[Andrew Callahan]

Amazing.

[Afroman]

All right. I hope so because I was high and I was, you know, drifting from the original question.

[Andrew Callahan]

You were drifting, but you were saying cool the whole time.

[Afroman]

Okay, brother, it was dope. Hey, editing to make me look good. Whoever edit. Thanks, man. All right.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, dude.

[Afroman]

Thank you.

[Andrew Callahan]

Channel 5 live, worldwide, Hollywood advice.

[Afroman]

Fuck the authority. Channel 5 news, channel 55. We don't fuck with custers. And 5 is the best number.