How L.A. Sheriff Deputy Gangs Terrorize the Public: 5CAST w/ Andrew Callaghan (#5) ft. Janet Asante

Summary

Podcast Summary: How L.A. Sheriff Deputy Gangs Terrorize the Public: 5CAST w/ Andrew Callaghan (#5) ft. Janet Asante

Release Date: May 11, 2025
Host: Andrew Callaghan
Guest: Janet Asante
Organization Represented: Justice LA

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of 5CAST with Andrew Callaghan, host Andrew Callaghan delves deep into a grave issue plaguing Los Angeles: the presence and impact of gangs within the L.A. Sheriff's Department. Joined by Janet Asante, an activist and communications manager at Dignity and Power Now, they explore the severe human rights abuses, corruption, and systemic failures associated with deputy gangs and the notorious Men's Central Jail (MCJ).

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Defining Gangs and Deputy Gangs

Andrew begins by outlining the official definition of a gang as per former California Attorney General Kamala Harris—a group of three or more individuals committed to a common criminal purpose. He contrasts traditional gangs with groups like the Juggalos, highlighting the legal implications of being labeled a gang member, such as enhanced sentencing.

Notable Quote:

Andrew Callaghan [00:56]: "We're just a family. Which I agree with, man."

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Impact of Gang Designation

The conversation shifts to the consequences of being designated as part of a gang, emphasizing the harsh sentencing enhancements that can significantly increase prison time. Andrew references a previous episode discussing Crip Max and the federal sentencing enhancements that adversely affected his case.

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Deputy Gangs within the L.A. Sheriff's Department

Janet Asante provides an in-depth look at the existence of gangs within the L.A. Sheriff's Department, such as the Banditos, Rattlesnakes, Jump Out Boys, Grim Reapers, Wayside Whities, and Compton Executioners. These groups are implicated in violent acts, intimidation, and corruption, contributing to a toxic environment within the department.

Notable Quote:

Janet Asante [07:35]: "Sheriff gangs continue to operate and threaten."

Andrew recounts the tragic case of Anthony Vargas, a 21-year-old who was fatally shot by deputies allegedly affiliated with the Banditos. Despite evidence suggesting the gun was planted, the court dismissed all charges against the deputies, highlighting systemic bias and corruption.

Notable Quote:

Andrew Callaghan [03:42]: "Deputies with threatening names like the Banditos, the Cavemen, the Executioners."

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Men's Central Jail (MCJ): Conditions and Abuse

Andrew and Janet shift focus to Men's Central Jail, LA’s largest and most controversial incarceration facility. They discuss the deplorable conditions within MCJ, including excessive inmate violence, neglect of mental health needs, and alleged cover-ups of deaths caused by deputy gangs.

Notable Quote:

Janet Asante [32:22]: "It's truly horrible."

Janet shares harrowing stories, such as the case of John Horton, whose death was initially ruled a suicide but later changed to undetermined after an independent autopsy revealed signs of severe physical trauma inflicted by deputies.

Notable Quote:

Janet Asante [33:59]: "John Horton was killed by deputy gang members... his entire body was brutalized."

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Activism and Efforts to Reform

Janet outlines the mission of Justice LA, aiming to shut down MCJ, reform the police department, end poverty, and provide justice for victims of deputy gangs. She emphasizes the need for community investment in mental health care, housing, and other supportive services as alternatives to incarceration.

Notable Quote:

Janet Asante [15:56]: "We're trying to divest from carceral systems to invest in things like mental health care, housing and the like."

Andrew and Janet discuss the challenges of implementing these reforms, including bureaucratic obstacles, misallocation of funds, and the powerful unions defending corrupt practices within the Sheriff's Department.

Notable Quote:

Janet Asante [43:35]: "There's a mishandling of funds on the regular."

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The Role of Media and Public Perception

The duo examines how media portrayal influences public perception of criminals and the incarcerated, often dehumanizing individuals and justifying harsh treatments. Janet highlights the disparity in media coverage, where systemic issues and personal stories of those affected are overshadowed by sensationalized crime reporting.

Notable Quote:

Janet Asante [22:43]: "Language plays a huge part... Humanizing someone takes effort."

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Proposals and Legislative Actions

They delve into recent legislative measures like Proposition 47 and Proposition 36, analyzing their impact on jail populations and societal behavior. Janet criticizes these propositions for not addressing the root causes of crime, such as poverty and lack of resources, instead perpetuating the cycle of incarceration.

Notable Quote:

Janet Asante [37:14]: "Crime is something defined by the state."

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Closing the Loop: Jail Closure and Future Steps

Janet shares hopeful developments, such as the establishment of a jail closure implementation team tasked with executing recommendations to close Men's Central Jail and invest in community-based alternatives. She underscores the importance of community involvement and sustained advocacy to ensure meaningful reforms.

Notable Quote:

Janet Asante [65:27]: "It's been an entire process... we need mental health care here in LA County."

Andrew encourages listeners to get involved through organizations like Justice LA, emphasizing that collective action is vital for systemic change.

Notable Quote:

Andrew Callaghan [56:47]: "Getting involved on a local level is a real way to make a difference."

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with a passionate call to action, urging listeners to support movements aimed at dismantling the entrenched carceral systems and deputy gangs within the L.A. Sheriff's Department. Janet Asante reaffirms her optimism, highlighting the progress made and the potential for transformative change through active community engagement.

Notable Quote:

Janet Asante [86:07]: "It's happening right here in the United States, not somewhere else in some other country... get involved in your backyard."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of 5CAST w/ Andrew Callaghan serves as a critical exposé on the corruption and brutality within the L.A. Sheriff's Department and Men's Central Jail. Through engaging dialogue and firsthand accounts, Andrew and Janet shed light on the urgent need for systemic reform, community investment, and collective activism to combat the pervasive issue of deputy gangs terrorizing the public.

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For listeners seeking to take action or learn more, Janet Asante encourages involvement with Justice LA through their virtual actions and social media platforms, emphasizing that every effort counts in the fight against systemic injustice.

Transcript

[Andrew Callahan]

According to former California Attorney General Kamala Harris, a gang is defined as a group of three or more people who are committed to a common criminal purpose. For example, fictional American guitarist and comic book folk hero Archie Andrews, despite identifying his core social group as Archie. And the gang would not meet this criteria because despite being five deep, they're not jointly invested in either kidnapping, drug dealing, arms trafficking, money laundering, or. Or prostitution. At least not that I'm aware of. On the other hand, if you're, let's say a high school student in Carson City, Nevada, watching this right now with two of your buddies, and you guys are devout fans of the Insane Clown Posse, whoop, whoop. Congratulations, bro. You're in a gang now. That's right. Due to the antics of some people within the ICP fandom, the Department of Justice officially considers the Juggalos to be a gang, despite numerous active lawsuits filed by both the ACLU, Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope, who decry we're not a gang.

[Janet Asante]

We're.

[Andrew Callahan]

We're just a family. Which I agree with, man. Shout out to the Juggalos and my boy, Flip Flop the Clown. Haven't seen you in a couple years, but I hope you're still out there sucking on toes at the Sausage Castle. Shout out to all gas and all breaks. Flip Flop the Clown, suck some toes. To clarify, this gang designation isn't just a police classification to help rookie cops, like, figure you out during the booking process. It totally transforms the way that you're treated by the courts if you ever get charged with a crime. As we covered in our previous episode, Crip Max Sentencing, which explored the federal sentencing enhancements that resulted in Crip Mac being initially offered a 15 year minimum before his transfer to the mental health courts. Gang membership has the possibility to double, triple, quadruple, and even quintuple your jail time for crimes that could otherwise result in community service, probation, or a very short bid.

[Janet Asante]

So for every crime that's a federal crime, there's a guideline which tells you what the base offense level is, and then there's enhancements.

[Andrew Callahan]

And outside of the federal system, almost every state and county has gang enhancements. So if you're watching this right now, being in a gang is a. Is a bad idea. I know that in a world where guidance can be very limited and there's very little opportunity on the horizon, and you have record labels like Atlantic promoting artists who glorify death and destruction, it can seem appealing to join a gang. And you probably, for a short time, will experience true, genuine brotherhood. And insane situations that will give you stories that last a lifetime. But if you follow the rap money up the pipeline, you just might end up at the gates of a private prison. And if you follow rap lyrics to songs like Teach Me how to Drill by Lil Mabu, you might actually end up behind those gates. And listen, I'm not saying that Chief Keef was created in a laboratory by the CIA to hypnotize millions of young minds into engaging in flashy self destructive behavior to feed the voyeuristic appetite of white suburbia while simultaneously keeping the American prisons full and ensuring the availability of a low paid labor force of inmates to pick cotton and press license plates until they can be replaced by robots. But the conditions that created drill music in the first place were as deliberate as a scoop of cold vanilla ice cream on a warm slice of apple pie. Anyways, that's enough of that for today. Because this episode is not about rap music, street gangs or sentencing reform. This episode is about gangs on the other side of the law. Specifically L. A Sheriff Deputy gangs here in Los Angeles and the numerous deaths and human rights abuses that have occurred under their watch in LA's largest and most controversial incarceration facility, Men's Central Jail, aka MCJ. Deputies with threatening names like the Banditos, the Cavemen, the Executioners. The deputies rep their cliques, tattooing their bodies with logos and throwing up gang signs. The gang's facing allegations they use violent excessive force against Angelenos.

[Janet Asante]

To me, they're punks, the people that.

[Andrew Callahan]

Killed my sons, that executed my sons and intimidate fellow deputies who don't play along. Our guest today is LA based activist and video game aficionado Janet Asante, who works with an organization called Justice LA whose primary goal is to shut down mcj, reform and abolish the police department, end poverty and ensure justice for the families of those who've been victimized by LA Sheriff Deputy gangs such as the Banditos, Rattlesnakes Jump Out Boys, Grim Reapers, Wayside Whities, Compton executioners, and the 2000 and 3000 boys who control the 2000 and 3000 tier of MCJ. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Andrew Callahan and you're watching Five Cast, our weekly broadcast, not a podcast, here at Channel 5. I know I said that we're a broadcast and not a podcast, but as of today we are officially on Spotify, Apple, Soundcloud and Amazon. I know that some of you guys are driving trucks out there on the American interstate and otherwise important stuff that requires a linear visual focus and that audio is the only way to go for y'. All, so this is for y'.

[Janet Asante]

All.

[Andrew Callahan]

I'd also like to mention that we do a Midweek five cast every week where we answer audience questions and break down recent videos, but that one is available exclusively on our [e-mail]. channel 5 subscriptions are five bucks a month, but it powers the whole operation and gives you access to a separate catalog of not safe for work and uncensored content that can never live on the surface net. Like our recent drop Florida Swamp Fest. Here's a quick, very censored proo preview of that documentary. Do you think this could exist outside of Florida? Nah. Yeah, it's pretty much as Florida as it gets, I'd say. Hey, where we at? We're at Swamp Fest, motherfucker. It's day two of Swamp Fest absolutely turnt up. It's a lot more chaotic today than it was yesterday. We got the 30 racks, we got some Crown Royal, we sent me that Canadian whiskey backflip. It smells like gasoline, mud and blood. It's fucking lit out here. Yep, there it is. So if you want to check, swap Bomb Fest out, support us and see the Midweek five cast, all that is very possible right now again at www.patreon.com channel5. Alrighty. So as I mentioned earlier, we're going to be oscillating between two different topics this episode, Men's Central Jail and LA Sheriff Deputy Gangs. But let's start with the gangs. So the trending topic Google LASD Gangs first came to my attention around 2019 and I was introduced to the case of Anthony Vargas who was a 21 year old young man and church employee in East LA shot and killed by two LA County Sheriffs who were attempting to stop him on the way from a party in a low income housing complex. While in pursuit, they fired 18 shots into his back, head, arms and torso as he fled. Deputies Jonathan Rojas and Nicolas Perez, who killed Vargas, claimed to be searching for a robbery suspect and though they've admitted since the fatal shooting that Vargas was not the suspect they were searching for, deputies claim they found a loaded.22 caliber handgun beneath Vargas dead body and thus were acting in self defense. In court, Vargas family argued that the gun was planted by sheriffs given the fact that it was registered to a man in Arizona with no connection to Vargas, never reported stolen by the owner, and didn't contain a single shred of Vargas blood, DNA or fingerprints on it. Still, the judge in the case sided with the deputies or one could argue their co workers and ruled to dismiss all charges. However, a mistrial was ruled in favor of the Vargas family after it was proven that the judge ignored, did not show to the jury and decided to omit altogether substantial evidence showing the deputies Rojas and Perez were prospecting members of a sheriff deputy gang called the Banditos with long ties to the East LA Sheriff Station. That station in particular has a long documented history of sheriff gang violence, most notably the of an LA Times reporter and police corruption whistleblower named Ruben Salazar, who was allegedly killed by deputy gang members in the Silver Dollar Saloon in Boyle Heights in 1970 as he sat down for a drink after the Chicano Moratorium march against the Vietnam War. Hunter S. Thompson covered the situation pretty extensively in his book the Great Shark Hunt, which I recommend all you guys read if you get the chance.

[Janet Asante]

Sheriff gangs continue to operate and threaten.

[Andrew Callahan]

Public safety like regular gangs. Each deputy gang has their own logo and insignia. Banditos are marked by a secret numbered tattoo with a skeleton wearing a thick mustach and a sombrero and banishing a smoking gun. It's typically on the ankle or leg of members. It's been alleged that Rojas and Perez, who killed Vargas weren't quite at tattoo earning level and may have killed him as an initiation. Still, the chief of the station back then, Alex Villanueva, asserted there are no deputy gangs within the LA Sheriff's Department. Somehow you're trying to say oh, these people with tattoos and these things happen over here, oh my God, they're gangs. It doesn't pass muster at all. However soon this lie would be almost impossible to maintain. After more and more incidents came to light, one regarding another, a fatal shooting by Deputy Perez, who shot another Hispanic male to death in the back while he fled. This time, 20 year old Anthony Serrano and ultimately Villanueva moved to discipline, suspend or transfer 26 Bandito affiliated sheriffs from the East LA station in the August of 2020, a move that exposed the hypocrisy, corruption and abuse of power endemic in the department. After all of this, Sheriff Villanueva lost his bid for re election in 2022. And in the meantime the Vargas family kept fighting. And this year they were awarded a $3 million settlement by the city for the wrongful death of their son. While still no charges have been filed against Rojas or Perez for their involvement. I'd like to remind you guys that while it might seem like a victory, and I'm sure it helps the Vargas family a lot, the LA City and county's budget for these kind of settlements comes from taxpayer dollars, AKA everybody's income here. And the fact that they're willing to spend $3 million of that taxpayer funding that could just as easily be invested into the community to pay off the family of a victim instead of holding their own officers accountable speaks volumes. Anyways, in the wake of this massive fallout and multiple other lawsuits filed by the families of sheriff gang victims, recent reports suggest that the power of deputy gangs has waned and only six of them remain, as opposed to 30 just 10 years ago. However, two of the sheriff gangs remaining, according to Justice LA, have been wreaking havoc in Men's Central Jail in downtown la. I've personally never been to mcj. I've only been to jail twice. Once in South Dakota for a week after a Sturgis bike week graffiti incident, and a second time for a few days at a Department of Homeland Security border facility. But neither were that rough compared to What I've heard MCJ's is like, here's how Crit Mac explains the intake process. I mean, yeah, going through the whole attacks, you see different from different. Hoods ask you where you from? All right, let's go to process. He's gonna get out, you're gonna get down on her. You go through the whole tanks. Now you're a cj, you land where you at? All right, you got, he's from here, he's from here. All right. He already tell you where you from? You know, she already know. Cuz once it's time five on on hood, go fight a day room on hood where everybody watch TV and a little workout. We gonna squabble, we gonna get it in on neighborhood crib. I'm not gonna turn down a time. So obviously guards have no control over inmate violence. But Additionally, there are two major documented sheriff gangs at the MCJ. The 2000 boys on the 2000 cell block and the 3000 boys on the 3000 cell block. And according to legal filings, they do some horrible Stanford prison experiment, gladiator school, abuse of power type shit and are linked to a number of mysterious deaths that our guest, Janet Asante will break all the way down after this commercial break and some positive news. Alright guys, we're back. And before we talk about Men's Central Jail and deputy gangs with our illustrious guest, let's take a deep breath and visit some positive stories. Our first positive news story comes out of Vancouver, Canada, my favorite city in the great white north, where after 12 long years of research, a team of Brothers at the University of British Columbia have invented what might be the ultimate nightlife saver for you ladies and perhaps fellas trying to protect your alcoholic beverage from getting spiked by a deranged pervert. Believe it or not, I actually got roofied once on my first day of college in New Orleans when I was 18. Thankfully, nothing fuck up happened to me, but I was at a local college bar and I had no money. So I asked my friend Savannah, who had no fake ID but was a girl, which gave her some home field advantage, to ask an older guy to get her a beer so she could give me the beer because she doesn't drink beer. Turns out old boy was trying to roofie Savannah, but she didn't drink and I do. So I drank it and I woke up at a bus stop at 6 in the morning with no recollection of how I got there. Pretty scary stuff, but it could have been avoided with something called Spikeless, which is like a fentanyl test kit. But it's a discreet drink stirrer like a stir stick with a color changing tip that can detect GHB, Rohypnol or Ketamine in under 30 seconds while still remaining very discreet. So you can be low key, see what's up, let the bartender know and then get that full 86 and or arrested. The geniuses behind this product are Dr. Jonathan Foster, a chemical and biological engineering professor, and his brother Andrew, who first cooked up the idea back in 2012, and after possibly roofing themselves hangover style for over a decade as field research, have finally rolled out their prototype for Spikeless, which is in the process of being approved by the Canadian health officials and hopefully will be like mass manufactured in the future at some point to save lives, spirits and parties, man. Shout out to the motherfucking Foster brothers now heading to the home of Dababy and Michael Jordan. That's right, North Carolina, where the towns of Chimney Rock and Bat Cave are rising from the mud and floodwaters left behind by Hurricane Helene. Much like undocumented workers and seasonal workers arrived from Mexico and elsewhere in Latin America to help rebuild New Orleans after Katrina of 2000, 2005. Something similar is happening in Chimney Rock and Bat Cave. But these hammer holding patron saints don't habla espanol. In fact, they don't really talk to anybody outside their community. Unless you want to buy some butter. That's right, the Amish have arrived to save the day. And shout out to the goddamn Amish. As a Philadelphia native of Irish and Italian ancestry, we appreciate The Pennsylvania Dutch, more than you guys can possibly imagine. But let's keep it real. You guys aren't watching this. You Amish people aren't watching shit. Except for your children, who are living a happy and stress free life, totally unaware of the late stage capitalist, terminally online, parasocial, reactionary hellscape that's eroding the minds of the masses, leading to crippling loneliness, the relentless commodification of anything cool or unique, and the collapse of regional and cultural identity that's come with the interconnectivity provided by social media. Your kids don't want to live stream, you guys don't need to live stream. You already live by the stream and skip rocks after a long day of child labor. Maybe we should all be Amish and trade in these stupid suits and ties for straw hats, chin strap beards and overalls because they're doing more for North Carolina than I am. And that's for show. It's been reported by WCNC that over 2,000Amish volunteers have been selflessly sacrificing their time to help rebuild these communities, turning disaster zones into construction sites. And it's working. These fools are laying down drywall and rectifying hundreds of dilapidated structures at breakneck speeds. Like God himself is watching. And he probably is. Again shouts out to the Amish, we'd love to have one of you guys on the show. So if one of you guys is like hiding in the barn right now, fearing total exile as you surf through the YouTube app and rum Spring is coming up soon, shoot me an email at andrewannnel5news. We'll book you first class. From Lancaster to LAX. Just say the word. All right, that is two positive stories for you guys. Let's go ahead and get into the main interview of the day about LA Sheriff, Deputy, Gangs and mcj. Here we go. Thanks so much for making the time. I really appreciate it. Now, for somebody unfamiliar, can you tell us about yourself and what Justice LA does?

[Janet Asante]

Yeah. So my name is Janet Assante. I'm communications manager at Dignity and Power now. And I also do a lot of the campaign organizing for the Justice LA Club Coalition. Justice Allay is an abolitionist coalition fighting for not only the closure of Men's Central Jail, but a number of anti carceral efforts here in the Los Angeles area.

[Andrew Callahan]

And what are some of the main activities that y' all do to forward that cause?

[Janet Asante]

So Justice Allay specifically was formed in 2017 in response to a $4 billion plan to expand LA County's jail system. Specifically at Miraloma and other locations. And it's a collective of not only like, healthcare service providers, community members, legal organizations like the ACLU of Southern California nonprofits. Like I mentioned, I work for Dignity and Power now. We offer services directly to formerly incarcerated people and their families, people affected by police violence. And there's a lot of people who are at stake when we do jail expansion. And so Justice LA is the formation of those groups coming together to fight those things. And ultimately what we're trying to do is divest from carceral systems to invest in things like mental health care, housing and the like.

[Andrew Callahan]

Now when you say abolition, you're talking about prison abolition.

[Janet Asante]

Absolutely.

[Andrew Callahan]

And obviously people watching at home who aren't familiar with, like, literature around abolition might be thinking, what the heck? No jails. What are we gonna do with all these crazy people out here who are, you know, setting shit on fire and kidnapping kids?

[Janet Asante]

Yeah, that might be what they're thinking. And unfortunately, the best thing I can provide them is data. So if they're not into data, I tell them stories. Like, I tell them about, like, the real people. A lot of people who are against abolition or confused by it or don't understand it, are against it in theory. Like, it's hard for them to truly, like, from a brain perspective, like, imagine a world where we don't have jails and prisons. You don't have to imagine to, like, look at what's actually happening. You can look at the specific stories, especially here in Los Angeles. Half the jail population is there on mental health diagnoses. And so judges have the option to give somebody what's called diversion. So they say, okay, clearly you've been arrested because of your mental illness. Right. But the issue is LA county hasn't built any services for people to go, so they'll be granted diversion and still sit in these jails and get worse and, you know, be completely destabilized from their families or their jobs or, you know, maybe their car is towed because their car was just left wherever they got picked up or whatever. And it's, it really is. Is disruptive to not only that person, but, you know, they might have children or other people that they're taking care of to support. And so it just proliferates out from there. And so many resources are put into the jails themselves that it takes away from any of those other things that would be preventative from being built up.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, definitely. I'm also in favor of prison reform, if not total abolition over time. But most people, they have a Very reactive sentiment when you say that phrase. Cause like, okay to use an anecdote, what about someone who's like kidnapping kids and like holding them hostage in the basement like on some crazy shit like how are you gonna keep that person away from society? Is there gonna be a rehabilitation center that is not carceral, that does isolate them?

[Janet Asante]

I think we haven't even gotten to a fraction of the population that is just a so much easier case than that is. In addition to that being such a fringe case of who's actually in our jails that it's like to shoot down the entire idea of abolition based on some of these edge cases would be really unwise and unfair to the everyday people who are harmed by the system itself and not to be avoidant. I think it's important for us to address those things. But it's like if I really want to explain abolition to someone, I don't start there. I start with, first of all, people don't understand the difference between jails and prisons. First and foremost, its stated purpose really is to keep people there until their trial, until they see a judge. So if people, let's say, well currently we have around 12,000 people ish in the LA county jail system, the largest jail system in the world. And people are not able to see a judge in a timely manner. So they sit in there for even longer. You know, people who are legally innocent at that point you're waiting to even just have your case heard. So what can we do to be supporting people at home, for example, where they can still maintain their jobs? You know, if you're worried about somebody being brought to court, like we're not offering transportation, we don't even offer court reminders. And oftentimes for people currently in jail, the deputies just don't feel like taking them and so they sit there even longer even when they're slated to be released. And so, so that's the reality of what we have. And in theory we can have a figurative made up person who has caused a whole bunch of harm in the community, but the reality is that most of the folks that we have incarcerated aren't that person.

[Andrew Callahan]

So what's the most common reason that somebody's held for a long period of time in Men's Central Jail?

[Janet Asante]

In Men's Central Jail specifically most people there are pretrial. There's an entire unit called, well, I'll say this downtown. There's two facilities. There's Twin Towers facility and there's Men's Central Jail. They're connected and the whole first floor of Men's Central Jail is the inmate reception center. You might be familiar with IRC because that's where everyone who enters the system pretty much goes there first.

[Andrew Callahan]

Holding tanks, kind of.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah, essentially. And the other reason why you might know of the IRC is because there's been so many lawsuits against the county because of the conditions there to where folks are being chained to benches for overnight for up to two days. This is not a cell even so this is a whole bunch of people just in a room, maybe a working bathroom. There's reports of people literally shitting in orange juice containers because they don't have a bathroom or any way to even be assessed for things like physical care or mental health care, anything like that. And, yeah, it's been a year's ongoing lawsuit between the ACLU of Southern California, the California Department justice, the federal doj. It's a really bad situation.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. It seems like everyone that I've talked to who's gone to Men's Central has had a horrible experience.

[Janet Asante]

It's truly horrible. And for me, a lot of people speak about the folks who are being caged there as this whole population of figurative humans. Right. And for myself, working directly with populations who are directly impacted, you know, folks have real names. I know there was Aceo Roblero. He. He has a son who is held at MCJ in Twin Towers. And he started organizing with us at Justice LA because for years he had been trying all of the numbers that they tell you exist, right? Like, oh, call this number to get your family member mental health care. If somebody's having a crisis, you can always reach out to this, this and this, or sign up for this program or do this. He had done his due diligence and still was not able to access those resources. And then eventually he had a mental health crisis at home and his dad called the cops. And when he was arrested, he was granted mental health diversion and still waited in jail for almost an entire year to get that, like, placement into mental health care. And throughout that time, you know, his mental health deteriorated. He was formerly just like, you know, a science kid in college. And, you know, because he was presented with this mental health condition and specifically, like, the response, the state's response to his mental health, like being a carceral facility, like, genuinely trickles out to the entire family. And now his dad is facing, you know, potential eviction and eventually actually did get pushed out of his home.

[Andrew Callahan]

What sort of mental condition was it?

[Janet Asante]

Schizophrenia.

[Andrew Callahan]

So it led to a psychosis of some kind yeah, yeah. About the dehumanization of people that are in jail. You know, one word in particular that's been very like frequent in the news is the word criminal. Like capital C, like describing someone as a criminal. And it kind of weirds me out because for one, there's a big spectrum of crimes and it kind of has the notion that once you have done a crime of any kind, whether it's, you know, vandalism, littering or assault, or you get into a bar fight, like if you get charged, you're a criminal and thus you deserve no human treatment. And that kind of becomes like the way to flatten your identity into a single word, which then enables the public consciousness to justify treating you horribly.

[Janet Asante]

Exactly.

[Andrew Callahan]

And it's always been a really weird thing. Like even though you like get criminals out of our country, like if you have a criminal record, you can't be treated as a US citizen. What role do you think the news media plays in facilitating that perception?

[Janet Asante]

Oh, I mean, I think language plays a huge part and I think, you know, there is a real effort. Humanizing someone takes effort when there's so much propaganda put behind not caring what happens to them. For example, when we look at what happened with the fires in the Castaic area, like the facilities out there, as the fire was approaching, came within one mile, really half a mile of those facilities. And at no point were they actually evacuating people from those facilities. And meanwhile, you know, they're on like the fire map. It's you know, level three, get out. You know, no if, ands or buts about it. For everyone else in that area, they're saying don't even, don't grab like your favorite animal. Right, Just get out. But for folks there, they're not human enough for that to be something like the first thought in folks mind. And it allows for things like that to happen.

[Andrew Callahan]

The way that I try to break through to people who are really into crime and punishment and carceral ways of thinking is I say, okay, most people in jails and prisons will be re released into this society that you're so hell bent on protecting from criminals. Right. Well, under that logic, wouldn't you want them to have a genuinely rehabilitative process after causing harm? You know, because if they're going to be re entered, why would you want to hyper traumatize them and make them perhaps more violent and exacerbate their mental health symptoms?

[Janet Asante]

Absolutely. And on that note, like most of the people that we have in our jails aren't like Quote, unquote, violent people. For example, I mentioned Asael before. One of the crimes that he was, you know, picked up on was assault of his father because his father said, oh, you know, he's hitting me. You know, I don't know what to do to control him. So they not only tacked that onto his case, but they also issued a protection order automatically so that when he, you know, if he. Or when he was released, if he came home, he would then be eligible to be arrested again for violating that protection order that the father didn't even ask for. Right. So it's like, there's specific things that are criminalized that create, quote, unquote, criminals. And it's always in service of, you know, of course, like the ruling class, the wealthy folks who, you know, lobby to make these laws happen.

[Andrew Callahan]

Speaking of criminalization, let's talk a little bit about gangs. So the gangs are defined by the FBI as a group of five or more people.

[Janet Asante]

I think it is.

[Andrew Callahan]

What's their official definition, a violent group of five or more individuals? I think it's something like that, yeah. So there's a lot of gangs that people know about. Everyone knows about Crips, Bloods, Gangster Disciples, Juggalos, or Classified, you know, the Insane Clown Posse fandom. They're a gang, according to the FBI, but not that many people know that there's gangs within law enforcement. Yeah, Nipsey and YG once said the biggest gang in LA is the Los Angeles Police Department, which may be true, but today we're going to talk about the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department and their deputy gangs. What can you tell us, for starters, about what the heck's going on with that?

[Janet Asante]

Well, the first thing I'll say is Google LASD gangs. Cerise Castle has done a ton of reporting around this and has really turned over so many leaves that were previously unturned. I mentioned I work for an organization that works directly with people who are impacted by the system. So we've known for a very long time that the Sheriff's department gangs existed, but it's only within the last 10 or so years that they've been documented. For example, you know, this is not an exaggeration or a metaphor when we say, like, the Sheriff's department is a gang. They literally have tattoos and logos. And in men's Central jail, specifically on the third floor, they have the 3,000 boys, and, like, they're literal gangs. I mean, we've even seen pictures of them having mouse pads or other, like, gear and memorabilia with these images and Logos and like, things that are specific to individual stations. And yeah, the sheriff's department union does a lot to fight against the exposure of these gangs. They're called alads. So, for example, they had a whole bunch of legal meat behind fighting, having to show their tattoos, for example, in court. And it helps make it a little bit more obscure what they're doing. But the community has already long been aware of what they do to the community. We know from community members, like they've talked about in Men's Central Jail, what's called flashlight therapy, where they're literally beating people with flashlights. And we know from a lot of the families there's record numbers of in custody deaths right now in the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department. And when I say that, I'm talking about the highest rate in the last 20 years with a lower jail population, you know, than in all of these other decades. Right. So we know from the families that say, you know, my son's death was ruled as, you know, natural causes or accidental or suicide or drug related. But we did an independent autopsy and found that, you know, his spleen is busted, his liver is busted. There's evidence of physical trauma. The UCLA Carceral Ecology's lab has done a lot of work to that end of exploring, like, what happens with collusion between the coroners and the sheriff's department, where the sheriffs are allowed to be in the room with the person doing the autopsy and explain away all of these things and say, oh, you know, yeah, we found him unresponsive. You know, that was from that bruise you see, is from a fight that he had, you know, way back when. But, yeah, the Sheriff's department gangs are a plague on the community. We know they're costing us billions in legal settlements and lawsuits alone. And that's for the things that we know about where families have access early enough to expose what's going on to their family members.

[Andrew Callahan]

Anecdotally, what is some documented evidence of sheriff gang violence, there's been a number.

[Janet Asante]

Of things that have happened. First and foremost, there's like the legal cases brought out against the county for sheriff's department gangs. And since those legal findings, there have been efforts to avoid, like, additional penalties against the county, namely, you know, measure A, for example, which the voters voted for, which allowed for the removal of a sheriff for cause. A lot of people are aware of. Alex Villanueva, he was like the Trump of la, right, where he refused to acknowledge deputy gangs, so much so that he was calling them cliques. He was like, These aren't gangs, they're cliques. Like, don't get it, Twist. Yeah. No, they're literally the same thing. Or we deny that they existed at all. Like, oh, yeah, we're just like a brotherhood. And this is just like our kickball team. And that's why you see this logo, things like that. And Sheriff Luna coming in meant that one of the things on his platform that he ran on was that I'm going to root out deputy gangs. And something so deeply ingrained that we at least know that deputy gangs go as far back as 50 or 60 years or so. So it's not like, like a byproduct or like a side activity for the sheriff's department. It's a core part of their identity as a force.

[Andrew Callahan]

Just what kind of things are they accused of doing?

[Janet Asante]

Oh, oh, you mean, like, literally killing people? That's just about as bad as it could get. Killing people, covering up their deaths. We know at least of one family that we work with at justice la, where they tried to not count his in custody death. It was only recently that in California, the departments were required to announce, like, when someone died in their custody, they didn't announce this person. And so they reached out to us, the family reached out to us and said, you know, my son's death was uncounted, but he was in custody. And you have to wonder, like, how many people they do that to where who, like, might not have families who they're connected to. There's also a story that we've heard from someone directly impacted on our staff who was incarcerated in mcj. And he talked about someone who was pushed down a long flight of stairs while handcuffed. And the family was told that he fell, but it was only because the person who was in the cell next to him knew his family was able to call from inside and say, here's what I saw happen. There's. There's no telling what else they do in our communities. Like, the lawsuits and the documented abuse and murder is absolutely heinous. We know there's so much more as.

[Andrew Callahan]

Far as these murders that are happening. Do you think that has something to do with an initiation into the deputy?

[Janet Asante]

I mean, allegedly, yes, but there's really.

[Andrew Callahan]

Not much known about it as far as, like, transparency.

[Janet Asante]

Well, it depends on what you mean by known.

[Andrew Callahan]

Well, they're not out there, like, you know, making songs. You know, some gangs are creative in some capacity. They have a creative arm, you know.

[Janet Asante]

Right.

[Andrew Callahan]

There's no sheriff's department music.

[Janet Asante]

No, they're Lacking creativity. And just from an artistic perspective, their logos are also really ugly too.

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, really?

[Janet Asante]

Yeah. If I had a, if I had a picture of some of them, you'd be like, yeah, cops are bad at art.

[Andrew Callahan]

You think it's like one of the dude's wives on like Microsoft paint or something? Cause if I had a gang called the Executioners, I could make a sick ass logo for it.

[Janet Asante]

The logo is butt ugly, actually.

[Andrew Callahan]

Damn, that's crazy.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

So the way you see it, these deputy gangs and the corruption within both the sheriff's department and the police department all ties into the prison conditions and lack of management.

[Janet Asante]

Absolutely. And on top of that, like, the jails are where they send some deputies as kind of like their first assignment as well. So it's unfortunately like the perfect place for them to do that initiation where, you know, there's barely any, any functioning cameras, if at all. Like any accountability period. You know, there's a lot of secrecy. There's like, areas that are run completely run down. I mean, this facility is decrepit. Everyone agrees Men's Central Jail should be closed on either side of the aisle. And here in Los Angeles, I think where people diverge is, you know, should another jail be replaced? Right. This, I mean, this facility alone, it was studied in 2006 to say, oh, if a big enough earthquake comes through, it'll literally follow like it's on a fault line. It's not structured or retrofitted at all. It's just. It's a horrible building just as a structure itself.

[Andrew Callahan]

So the building itself sucks.

[Janet Asante]

The building itself sucks.

[Andrew Callahan]

Moving to the conditions, though, I really want to kind of. You've obviously spoken to a lot of people who have been in and out. How would you paint a clear picture of what it's like in there for people who are held?

[Janet Asante]

Yeah, I mean, I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who's never been held in Men's Central Jail. Right. But I've been able to see what it does to people. First and foremost, the inmate reception center because of the court cases from the California Department of Justice. Legally, you're supposed to be processed within 24 hours. So if you're lucky enough, they're at least following, you know, the judge's ruling there. And you arrive on the first floor of Men's Central Jail at the irc, you're evaluated for, you know, any kind of maladies you might have or physical conditions, and then you're taken somewhere, whether that's mcj, Twin Towers, like the Castaic Jails, for example, which one of those facilities entirely, like the building itself, is only for people with mental health issues. And the entire time you know, you're around deputies who may or may not be a part of a deputy gang, you don't know if you're on the third floor, you're among the 3,000 boys. If you're on the fourth floor, you're among the 4,000 boys. If you're, you know, potentially put into a cruiser, you know, you don't know where you might be getting taken to. And even when you know that your court date is coming up, what we've seen from deputies as recently as this year, they will claim that the person just didn't want to come to court. So you can't even count on your court date to know that you can stand before a judge and make your plea guilty, not guilty, you know, or anything like that. Right. You won't even know that. That your court date already passed.

[Andrew Callahan]

What's the most horrific story of deputy abuse that you've heard coming from Men's Central Jail?

[Janet Asante]

I would say the story of John Horton. John Horton was killed by deputy gang members at a time where only community members knew that they existed. So this is before a lot of the exposure of how organized it was. I think people have always known that, you know, the sheriff's department abuses people and, you know, causes harm on the community. John was held in Men's Central Jail, and until a few years ago, his death was ruled as a suicide. And it was only very recently moved to undetermined. I think that that's really telling because the physical evidence of what happened to him is so jarring. You know, his liver, his kidney, his spleen. I mean, his entire body was brutalized. While his family did receive, like, you know, a settlement from the county, it won't bring John back. No one is better off in society for what happened to John. You know, this is. The sheriff's department gets billions of dollars out of this county's budget every single year to do what happened to John.

[Andrew Callahan]

So they're receiving billions in funding.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Everybody across the board knows that the facility is horrible.

[Janet Asante]

Right.

[Andrew Callahan]

Why is it not shut down at.

[Janet Asante]

This point, first and foremost? I know. Just kind of like backing up to the start of this conversation, too, like when you're talking about abolition, Right. And folks are saying, well, what do we do? Like, are we just going to let everybody out and see what happens? That's not the case with Men's Central Jail. There's been over a dozen reports that Outline exactly what we need to do. You know, for example, the alternatives to Incarceration report. This committee was formed by the county itself and they brought back 184 recommendations. Everything from, you know, like housing and treatment programs. Just like community based mental health care, where the county wouldn't even need to like build a whole new facility for mental health treatment. They can just contract with people who are already doing that work to expand and actually provide it to folks in their neighborhoods, which is better anyway. It has better results and better outcomes for people to just go somewhere local to them. And so when it comes to Men's Central Jail closure, it's this muscle memory of, you know, a bureaucratic system where even though they've been given this mandate, it hasn't actually been carried out. And so right now we have just finally received a jail closure implementation team to actually carry out the duties of Men Central Jail Closure. This is coming years after jcit, like jail closure implementation. This is coming years after they were allegedly created. So it's been an entire process I could go through. Like, oh yeah, it was in this department and then it got moved here. And the person who was in charge there didn't believe in jail closure. And so they just took the funding and put it towards someone. Like, I could go through the history of that. But what really matters, at least for folks who are waiting for these resources to be brought online, whether they're in MCJ or not, like, we need mental health care here in LA County. We need substance use treatment to prevent people from going in because we all deserve it. Folks who are inside of these jails, they're there because the state has failed them. And that's something that becomes really clear when you look at the reality of the populations there.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, because most of the people there are coming from impoverished areas.

[Janet Asante]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Andrew Callahan]

Do you think there can be poverty? Poverty without crime?

[Janet Asante]

I mean, crime is something defined by the state. Right. A lot of what people do when they are impoverished are criminalized. Right. And we've seen that. I've been speaking about the county for the most part during this conversation, but there's also the LA City and the LAPD. Right. We know in the fight against 4118, where it was criminalizing things like repairing your bicycle on the sidewalk. Right. And we know that's not going to be used for somebody like on a road bike with like the most aerodynamic outfit in the world. They're using that as a way to criminalize the everyday survival activities of someone who doesn't have a Lot of money. Right. And so inherently, yes, where there's poverty, there's crime, but we need to look at, like, what we're doing when we define those things as crime.

[Andrew Callahan]

I guess the crimes that I'd be referring to are just theft, and that means just taking stuff from people. Like, do you think that typically when the state thinks of a solution to theft, they think, okay, we're just going to teach people a lesson by. By putting them in jail so they have such a terrible time and they're traumatized and, like, you're not going to steal again, but it doesn't work. So I think that. I mean, the way I see it, the only way to stop that would be to just bridge the massive inequality, because then you wouldn't have people wanting to steal. I mean, you might have some kleptomaniacs who are just, like, touched in the head, but even they could get mental health treatment for that. But just raw necessity theft, I feel like, would go away if you close the wealth gap, right?

[Janet Asante]

Oh, absolutely. And in that sense, like, abolition isn't confusing. Like, if somebody's hungry, we give them food. Right. If somebody's sick, we give them treatment. Things like that. It's actually quite simple. And it's just so much less costly to actually do the things to help the community. Especially when you think about, like, how much these sheriff's deputies make. On top of their base salary, they also have, like, contract cities. So like West Hollywood, for example, gives the sheriff's department a whole bunch of money to, like, provide policing services for West Hollywood and so on and so forth for all of these different cities in LA county, on top of the billions that they already get, on top of the billions that they end up getting for things like settlements, overtime, you know, I think it was 185 million last year in overtime alone. And so the fraction of that, if, like 1%, if 01% even of all of that money went towards, like, helping someone who was in that position that you named, like, thefts of necessity, it would just make such a difference. Right? $100 can make a difference in someone. And that might be like, what a sheriff's deputy's making in. In, like, I don't know, an hour. Right?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. I just feel like radical structural changes in society are the only really way to bridge this gap because California still, they have, like, trillions of dollars that they're giving to different NGOs who are supposed to be administering, like, mental health services and help people with stuff like, you know, reducing recidivism And a lot of that money doesn't get spent on the community. It gets paid out to people who are working for these expensive, high paid nonprofits. So it's like you'd also have to come up with a checks and balances system to mitigate that bureaucracy as well.

[Janet Asante]

Well, absolutely. And in many cases those systems already exist, they just aren't being used. Right. We've seen consultants, I'll name, for example at justice la, we're a collective of experts as well. Right. There's data organizations that do the research and provide it to the county free at cost. Right. And they'll still charge, you know, a consultant will still charge the county, I don't know, $10,000 for a PowerPoint presentation. Right. And meanwhile we'll get questions about like, oh, actually like providing, you know, this, this much housing or mental health care or treatment will cost so much money. We don't have it. And that's on top of the fact that voters voted for a 10% of LA County's budget to go towards alternatives to incarceration. This is what the people want. And we're seeing year after year those unspent funds sit there. And because voters specifically locked it in as protected funds, so they actually do roll over from year to year. It's unlike other county budget funds where like it might on paper roll over, but it really doesn't. It's just the same money just being carried down. It doesn't actually accrue the 10% each year, but in this case it does. And this is the first year because of the years of unspent funds. This happened in 2020 when voters voted for Measure J. Now we're five years out and we're facing the largest settlement in county history because probation officers were abusing children in the facilities. It's a $4 billion settlement that they're approving this year to go towards the victims that have been the victims of the probation department.

[Andrew Callahan]

That's being paid by taxpayers.

[Janet Asante]

Yes, being paid by taxpayers. So it's like we either actually help kids get their resources met. I mean, these are literal children. Right. If you or I were to have a kid in a cage underneath this table, you know, that would be a.

[Andrew Callahan]

Problem, which we don't have. If you're watching, we don't, we can't see under the table.

[Janet Asante]

Right. Like that would clearly be a problem. But instead, like the state is doing it, charging us to do it, abusing children in the process. And now we're paying $4 billion in the largest settlement Settlement from our tax money.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, it's like this whole conversation about like non profits and NGOs embezzling money is kind of Trump coded right now because the DOGE is supposed to like, it's basically like California is wasting all this money. But what they don't understand is that California is wasting the money. But it's not, it's not like the progressive establishment, it's like the liberal weird bureaucracy that's trying to like hold on to the wealth and not redistribute it. A good example. I know it's a different topic, but in San Francisco they allocated all this money to deal with the fentanyl crisis and to clean up this neighborhood, the Tenderloin, which is like the kind of drug area. So like literally if you go there, there's like at least a year and a half ago there's like people shooting up on the streets, people smoking dope. Like a. Looks like a nightmare situation. So the city, the actual, the actual like organizations who work on the ground were like, we need a safe injection site. We need to take all these people, we need to put them in a two block radius. We're going to have every harm reduction worker in the city there. We're going to have every possible resource they need so we can give them the help so they can get off the streets or if they don't want to, at least give them the right materials to not shoot up and die immediately.

[Janet Asante]

And it's exactly why this group of local activists is here setting up this pop up safe consumption site. It's a place for people to use their drugs with someone nearby in case of an overdose.

[Andrew Callahan]

We're not putting anyone at risk, including ourselves. And Governor Newsom was like, no. And he said no because he was getting bullied by conservatives who were like, you're letting people turn this into Hamsterdam from the wire. Like you're letting people smoke fentanyl in the streets. So even these so called progressive California lawmakers who are getting audited by the federal government for mishandling funds are themselves themselves scared to actually provide help to the people. So I feel like you, as someone who works on the ground, have you seen a similar mishandling of funds when it comes to the fight to save to shut down mcj?

[Janet Asante]

Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a mishandling of funds on the regular. We recently held an action at the Board of Supervisors. A lot of people don't know LA county is run by six people and that's five Board of Supervisors or five supervisors of the five districts of LA county, plus the CEO. A lot of people don't know LA county has a CEO.

[Andrew Callahan]

Who is it?

[Janet Asante]

Fisha Davenport. Right now.

[Andrew Callahan]

Fasia Davenport.

[Janet Asante]

Fisher Davenport, yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Okay. Is she from here?

[Janet Asante]

I actually don't know.

[Andrew Callahan]

That would be crazy if she bought it.

[Janet Asante]

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised.

[Andrew Callahan]

But to your point, there's a Chief Executive Officer of the city. Of la.

[Janet Asante]

Of the county. County, which is larger than the city.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. That encompasses us. Baldwin park.

[Janet Asante]

Right. It's 10 million people. Right. There's a, there's a CEO. It's not even an elected position. And this person controls where the fund.

[Andrew Callahan]

What? Wait, wait, wait. We gotta back up a second. So LA has a CEO that controls the flow of cash after the city budget is calculated?

[Janet Asante]

Yes. And even after the supervisors make their motions and demands. For example, if I'm a supervisor, I've been elected to cover 2 million of the 10 million people in my district. And I say, okay, I want to make a motion to increase the Office of Diversion and Reentry that does supportive housing and treatment has a 90 sports success rate at keeping people out of jail.

[Andrew Callahan]

90?

[Janet Asante]

Yeah, it's 87 exactly. But I'm rounding up. And it's an extremely great. It's an extremely good program. Holly Mitchell, for example, put forth a motion a couple years ago to expand it and the rest of the supervisors voted against it and it ended up passing in supplemental, which. This is a lot of technical information, but let's just say I as a supervisor decide more funding should go towards mental health care treatment. The CEO can then say, actually I've checked the numbers, it's not looking good, we can't do it maybe next year. And that's an extremely large amount of power. Not just for one person to have over 10 million, but for that to be an unelected position, for that to be someone who like ultimately makes the determination for where the resources go and then can just tell the supervisors that something is not possible when they mandated it. It's undemocratic, quite frankly, because you have like. It's so hard for people to even make their voices heard. Especially when you have to show up to like a county meeting on Tuesday at 9am so when we have, you know, as coalition, hundreds of people show up just to do that, just to get something passed, just for it to get put into a department that then isn't given the funding because of some weird restriction that the CEO is saying it's a complete conflict of interest.

[Andrew Callahan]

So administering those tax funds to the people is a nightmare.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Unless those people are cops.

[Janet Asante]

Exactly. And we've seen that this year. Right. Like, Sheriff Luna showed up and was just like, I need 2 million to eradicate deputy gangs. And one of the supervisors said, well, do you have a plan that we can look at? And he was like, no. And they were like, cool. Approved. And that's quite literally what happened. And meanwhile, it's like, if I were to show up and say, hey, can we get $2 million, pretty please, to go towards these organizations that are fighting for funding who do amazing work and don't have the ability to be here because they're doing this work every single day. And they'll be like, we need it. Least 10 more reports from you, actually.

[Andrew Callahan]

So the funding is there. You just can't get it.

[Janet Asante]

It's really hard. It's really hard. And the county process to even get a contract, for example, you named that. There's a lot of shady folks who might want to receive these funds to do the work, but maybe they're not as effective or as efficient, which is a fringe case. But we do want to do our due diligence when we're talking about care in the community. We do care that it's quality care, but the process of getting vetted for that and to receive those funds is really long, and it can be a real barrier for folks to actually bring these things online.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. Well, also, psychologically, you know, like, power does corrupt, you know, so even if, like, the. Let's just say that instead of a police department, there was, like, a bunch of really qualified mental health professionals who had jurisprudence over the people who are committing criminal acts or what the state designates criminal acts. There's a big worry that a lot of people have that the same kind of personalities who want to become cops would also try to become that authority position as well. And there's a type of person who enjoys authority and likes to tell people what to. To do, handcuff people, boss people around, beat people up, like they're just gonna go wherever the power is and follow the money.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah. And that's why we advocate for decentralized care, too. Like I mentioned before, we're not trying to build another jail. So, for example, Sheriff Luna recently brought out this new idea of what's called, like, a care campus. It's not a care campus. It's literally just another jail. And he. This is coming after, like, a series of abuses, litigation that the county is currently facing. For so many things that are happening inside of Men's Central Jail, specifically. And so he says, well, since you guys want care first, how about we build a care campus? It'll be like super sweet. You know, just to save you guys some time, the sheriff's department will run it. You know, it'll be a locked facility. And it's like, okay, what about this isn't actually just another jail. And so like, even as the people have said time and time again, over and over again, we don't want more jails. We literally have the largest jail system in the nation, arguably the world. But once you leave the United States, what is a jail like becomes a little bit more tricky to define. You know, we literally have the largest jail system in the nation. What we want is care. And still the cops will find a way to say, like, oh, maybe we can be the care you need.

[Andrew Callahan]

Give you a hard lesson or something.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

I want to go back to the recidivism thing that you talked about because I used to go to school in Louisiana and I did some stuff with like covering the Louisiana State Penitentiary, a.k.a. angola Prison.

[Janet Asante]

Okay.

[Andrew Callahan]

And they have, it's a terrible prison, but they were able to bring the recidivism rate from 20% to 56% by introducing like a pretty good reentry program. You said you there's an 87% rate of people not returning to jail within a couple years based upon. I want to hear more about that program and what they teach offenders to help them go back into society and not re offend.

[Janet Asante]

It's less about teaching and more about resourcing, to be honest. Obviously there is a teaching component to that, just like showing folks like, what life can be like when you are resourced. But specifically, I'm talking about odr, which is the Office of Diversion and Rent Entry. It's extremely underfunded and it's one of the most successful programs and models that we've seen. There's other versions of this in other places across the nation, but I'll stick to LA for the sake of what I'm speaking about specifically. But the Office of Diversion and Reentry, it starts with housing, first and foremost. A lot of folks, you know, you might get these one off programs that are like, okay, job placement, but what good is job placement, like if you don't have somewhere to like shower before the interview or like, you know, a safe place to lay your head every day. And so it starts with housing and then they also do an evaluation for treatment and they specifically work with those community based healthcare providers that I mentioned before that are familiar with different populations who know what it's like every single day to work with folks who might be directly impacted by these systems or impoverished or might need substance use treatment, things like that. So to speak to a more specific example, I feel like it's almost more powerful to hear what it does for people in their lives. I know a good friend of mine is Robin Williams, and she was kind of in and out for crimes of, like, necessity, theft. Like, her last charge that she had was literally just stealing food out of a 7 11. Right. She was at that place of life where it was just like, just trying to get to the next day. And because she received those services from the Office of Diversion and Reentry, now she's able to be a mother and a grandmother in ways that she never thought that she would be able to. And it's like, because she received that support, she's a caseworker herself now. She just helped us bail out three more people from the women's facility a couple weeks ago for. We're doing like black mama's bailouts prior to Mother's Day. And it's really inspiring to be among people who have gone through that process because they can specifically speak to where they were and what helps them. But. Yeah, and then that's why ODR works. It's not just about teaching someone financial literacy.

[Andrew Callahan]

Right. Or like teaching them how to change tires and do stuff with cars.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

As it currently says, is the prison population in LA going up or down?

[Janet Asante]

Well, specifically, I'll specify the jail population.

[Andrew Callahan]

Jail. Sorry, Jail population.

[Janet Asante]

The jail population fluctuates from day to day. Generally, it depends on what frame of time you're looking at, but it's going down. And that's for a number of reasons. Proposition 47 helped reduce the jail population. And Proposition 36, which was recently passed, we don't know what it's going to do yet. So this was just passed in November. November. We're seeing just anecdotally from folks like our Public Defenders Union talk about those cases coming in. But a lot of folks there are still being granted, you know, things like mental health, diversion. When it comes to jail populations, it's about inflow and outflow. So there's some things that are increasing the inflow and decreasing the outflow. Like when people aren't brought to court on their court dates.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Janet Asante]

So.

[Andrew Callahan]

And for the viewer watching Prop 47, that was passed back in the day, we covered it pretty extensively in our coverage of San Francisco that did two things at the same Time it brought the prison population down, but it created the, the most insane era of boosting known to man. You had like these boot like boosting crews, like taking the BART into San Francisco, hitting every designer store like all the time. That started to wane after a while. But the hard thing about making these adjustments is like there is people out there who are just like heavy into boosting, who are just going to be opportunists. But that started to subside over time. But the immediate, like when you do something like that, it's hard because you have to live with the positives and the negatives of making that choice. I think overall the positive of keeping people out of jail for petty shoplift is a good thing. However, the immediate optics negative for city government of wide scale shoplifting, especially for international European brands is pretty rough to deal with. So can you talk about why that, that, that later proposition was passed and how the media played into leading up to that?

[Janet Asante]

Absolutely. And I'm, I'm glad that you mentioned like those specific things. Like there is, there is an imagery like when people talk about, you know, for example, like smash and grabs, like they, there's an image that folks have in their mind and you have to ask yourself, like, where did that image come from? Did it come from like my local neighborhood? Did it come from you know, a store that I frequent or anything like that? Like this is being shown to you because someone sent it in and then it was spread to all of these network stations and replayed at like, you know, 5:00am, 10:00am, 3:00pm, 6:00pm and what wasn't shown to you was like, you know, the millions and billions in wage theft of like all of the workers that might work at those stores or you know, the folks who aren't able to take care of their kids because you know, they stole a sandwich out of a 711 and now that kid has to go into foster care. Like those are the stories that are like A, much more common and B, like intentionally hidden from you. When you talk about the impacts of things like Proposition 47. And so yes, obviously it's not good to steal, you know, it's not good to take things that don't belong to you.

[Andrew Callahan]

I think these brands deserve to be stolen from.

[Janet Asante]

You know, speaking from my personal views, I agree. Not from the perspective of my organization, but yeah, well.

[Andrew Callahan]

Cause it's like they're out here just hustling these like cheap made things. They're paying rappers to wear them and they're marketing to people with not a lot of money. That's why you see people, you can go to like some of the worst areas of like places like New Orleans and everyone's wearing designer and that's what they spend the money they have on. Because these are status symbols that they basically, it's for like the extremely rich and tacky and for the poor who are trying to develop self esteem because they've been so cast down upon by society.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah. I mean, and there's another layer to that where it's like for that to even be a profitable business model, like to have a designer store, like you've already stolen from someone. Whether it was like, you know, the slave labor that you had in another country overseas, or like the everyday wage theft that came from like you stealing the, you know, essentially like labor from the people who are peddling out your goods and wares. Like there's already a theft that's happened prior to that to make it like profitable to the people who own those things. On top of the fact that it's just like a lot more attainable to put $100 into getting this bag than it is to put $100 into the stock market and actually make something of yourself and elevate whatever.

[Andrew Callahan]

Your class is also anti American in American folk way. You know what I mean? You're letting these foreign brands come to our country and take our money from us. You know what I mean?

[Janet Asante]

The twang in there was interesting, but.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, why the hell are they? I don't know. I only feel bad for the people who work at the spots and they're just having a normal day and then they get like punched in the face by like a 15 year old. You know, that sucks. But like generally, I know what you're saying. So if we wanted to close Men's Central Jail and shut down LA Sheriff's Department gangs today or within the immediate future, what are the tangible steps we can take to make that happen?

[Janet Asante]

The tangible things, Number one, get involved. With justice la, we have virtual action. So you can literally just sign up for a text message, you can get updates on the real shit that's happening every single week. So for example, if there's like a plan to build a $4 billion jail, you'll get a text so that you can tap in, you can sign a one click action that we send out, you can figure out what's going on locally in your community. And that's to me, that's abolition in action, not just in theory, where we're debating over the policies or what we imagine the world to Be, this is real.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, I'm glad you put that out there because that really getting involved on a local level is a real way to make a difference. Because too often people get caught up in these rhetorical debates where it's like, even people who are on the left, they're like, I just defe a conservative in the most epic debate way ever. Like, here's the content. This is really gonna do great in terms of raising awareness. Cuz I'm like owning all these conservatives, but the net impact is basically zero. You just get a bunch of people ideologically on board, but nobody wants to actually help somebody who's incarcerated, Right?

[Janet Asante]

If we got 100 people to show up to every single Board of Supervisors meeting, it would make a real difference for people like Asael, for people like Robin Williams, who was served by the Office of Diversion and Reentry. You know, it would make a difference for folks like John and Horton, who was brutally murdered by sheriff's department gangs. As long as we are showing up with people power, it makes a real difference for the people that I personally know in my life are harmed by the current policies and helped by the structures that aren't funded enough.

[Andrew Callahan]

Speaking of structure and state, on a deeper level, why do you think the state wants to incarcerate so many people?

[Janet Asante]

So many reasons. I mean, we could talk about just historically the connection to slavery especially. You know, I know I mentioned the fires before, but when you look at what's happening with the incarcerated firefighters, I mean, I just. It's just like when people are debating, oh, well, maybe our incarcerated firefighters should make like a little bit more like, yes, but it's like, if you're willing to let somebody work, you know, one day so they get two days off of their sentence, that means that they're not being incarcerated because they're a danger to society. Otherwise you wouldn't allow for that to happen. Like, if they can be released two days sooner, why not just release them two days sooner? Right? Why is it that you must do this, like, bartering system with them? Like, clearly they're safe enough for you to allow them out when it serves you, when it makes you money, when it protects capital.

[Andrew Callahan]

The only reason they also needed those incarcerated firefighters. We did a segment about the federal wildland firefighting force last episode. Basically, like the wildland firefighters who were basically tasked with extinguishing the fires in the national parks, like Angeles National Forest, Forest by Castaic, Santa Monica Mountains. They lost half their workforce because they refused to raise the wage above 15 an hour. And so since COVID cost of living has gone up, so half of the people who worked for the wildland firefighting force, we have to leave. We can't afford to work here, especially with the cancer and different risks associated with firefighting. So the state basically panicked and we're like, fuck, we can't find any firefighters. Let's use our prison population. And so it was weird to see, like, I understand having a lot of love for the firefighters themselves who are incarcerated, like the humans.

[Janet Asante]

Right.

[Andrew Callahan]

But there was this valorization of just like, wow, like, that's so awesome that the state did that. Like, they let them leave. Like, that's so sick. Imagine fighting flight and fire and being a hero while you were in jail. Like, shout out to California.

[Janet Asante]

No, it's like literally exploitation. Exploitation of, you know, the folks who aren't incarcerated who deserve better wages. And also exploitation of people in pretty much like the worst humanitarian crisis you can possibly be in in 2025. Right.

[Andrew Callahan]

Is there also a profit incentive to keeping people locked up?

[Janet Asante]

Right, Absolutely, there's a profit incentive.

[Andrew Callahan]

What is that?

[Janet Asante]

Well, for the sheriff's department, specifically, who has custody over all of the facilities in LA county, they're getting overtime on top of overtime. Some of these officers are making, you know, $400,000 a day, or, sorry, $400,000 a year. And that's including things like, you know, overtime, you know, whatever, whatever other things they can, like, tack onto that. Right. That's a profit for them. But they also have a really strong union. I honestly, Sheriff's department unions aren't real unions. Right. They're not real land labor, but they have really strong unions that will basically fight anything that they do wrong. So they have zero accountability. Pretty cushy situation at the end of the day. And on top of it, the politicians get to seem like they're keeping people safe by giving them even more money. So, yeah, there's absolutely a profit incentive. And for the electeds, it's like, unfortunately, in the climate that we're in, it's like a safe political move to support them. Even when they're murdering people, even when we're seeing the highest in custody death rate, even when there's documented sheriff's department gangs, even when they're abusing children, even when the facilities have been deemed unsuitable to house children, and they still keep them open. Because none of that information is like being, like you said in traditional media, shown every single day, multiple times a day. All they see is that clip from Prada or that clip from Gucci. It remains a popular thing for elected officials to do.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. The reason I ask that especially is because a lot of people know about the prison industrial complex and labor being basically extorted from people who are behind bars because they have to get commissary. And there's no way to make money besides doing this, you know, pressing license plates or breaking rocks up or in some cases actually picking cotton. Is there like a jail industrial complex within the city itself?

[Janet Asante]

Absolutely. And we're starting to see even like the jail industrial complex expand to tech as well. Things like electronic monitoring or ankle shackles where there's like a technical component to it, where they're saying, well, since your jails are overcome crowded, why don't we just jail people at their houses and give them this like, you know, electronic monitor? And we've even seen via some court watching experiences that folks who don't even have a home will be put on house arrest. Right. Where they're just told to like stay within a certain radius or a certain amount of blocks. And like, that's crazy.

[Andrew Callahan]

It's truly so they have to be homeless and they can't leave a certain perimeter.

[Janet Asante]

Right. And think about the amount of money and resources that went into giving them that monitor. They might not even have a place to charge it, for example. And if you don't charge, then you're docked by probation and thrown back in jail, potentially with other penalties, potentially then not eligible for, you know, bail or diversion or, you know, even a program further down the road where they have certain requirement stipulations that you didn't like, end up going back in from your previous charges. So it's just such a cycle where it's like we're willing to invest in literally anything else besides actually helping people.

[Andrew Callahan]

Are you optimistic?

[Janet Asante]

Yes.

[Andrew Callahan]

Really?

[Janet Asante]

Oddly enough, yeah. I know I've been talking about a lot of the doom and gloomy because I think it's important to really paint a picture of how bad this issue is and to show why people should care. But then when it comes to, like, what wins we've seen and the progress that we've made, even if it's small, it's very real. When people are making these policies that harm people more broadly, like for example, voting yes on Proposition 36, more incarcerates more people, adds more penalties, makes things that would be a misdemeanor felony, they're thinking about people in the abstract. When I personally see someone get the mental health care treatment they need, it's such a huge impact on not only them, but their families and honestly, life saving, it's a life saving impact. What we've seen, for example, with the, with Justice LA, when we shut down that $3.5 billion jail expansion program, the county had already signed it. They told us, we've already signed this contract with the developers. We can't go back. We'll face like a huge fine if we pull out of this contract. There's nothing you can can do that this is going through. There's nothing you can do. But it's like the people power is real and I've seen it work. Los Angeles is at the forefront of real abolition and action where we know that resources specifically here, through a number of detailed plans, through a number of very specific allocations would help people get out, stay out, not go in. We could close McJ. We'd have a better system overall in the entire county for helping people who might not ever go to a jail, period, if we actually implemented those things. It's been years in the making. The MCJ report came out March 30th of 2021. Right. So we're four years out and now we finally have a jail closure implementation team who can carry out those recommendations. That's something new that's happened this year. And now they have an executive director and staff to carry out that mission as long as we hold people to it. Also a little plug. Please sign up for the Justice LA virtual actions and follow us on socials.

[Andrew Callahan]

Hey, sign up. Register for their text action [e-mail] actionlist if you don't, we're gonna use our Patreon subscriber money to create a private police force of our own and hold you here.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah. And then you'll end up under the desk.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah.

[Janet Asante]

With the other people we have under here. But yeah, like it's real. Now is like a critical moment really to make sure that this group that's been brought together is effective and supported by the people as they have to make those decisions to, you know, Department of Mental Health. Here's what you need to do now. Or probation department, for example, might be upset at something because now their jobs are threatened, which they've already been on a hiring freeze because $4 billion lawsuit against them, settlement that just got approved this year.

[Andrew Callahan]

So virtually every element of the justice system here in LA is under attack.

[Janet Asante]

It's extremely corrupt. It's just so far corrupt at the state level. We have the bscc which basically can deem a facility un. And we've known that they didn't necessarily have that much power to begin with. Like, they'll evaluate a facility and say, like, yeah, this is horrible. Like, you can't have people here. But, like, they didn't have any power. Except for which we thought when it comes to the youth facilities. And so when they deemed these facilities unsuitable, we thought, okay, this is finally it. They're going to have to actually deal with the issue that we have with the lack of care going towards youth who are, you know, systematic impacted. And instead they just declared like a state of emergency and then extended that state of emergency. And here we are today. And they even closed one of the facilities and reopened it because they still hadn't invested in, like, what we actually need to keep people resourced.

[Andrew Callahan]

Is the Youth Authority jail still open? Yeah, I heard that one is really bad, too.

[Janet Asante]

Well, I would struggle to name a good one.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, I guess every jail is pretty much bad.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah. Men's Central Jail specifically is just such a horrible, horrible, awful case. But many of them are already just bad because we've already deemed folks who are in our carceral systems as less than human and undeserving of basic things like cancer treatment. If you go in and you have stage two cancer, they're not giving you the treatment you need. And so even when you look at, I mentioned brutal cases of people dying in custody, but a lot of what we see are these like, quote unquote, natural causes. Right. But how natural is it if somebody's like 30 years old? Right?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. What's the process of identifying the cause of death for somebody that dies in custody?

[Janet Asante]

Right. So because of dignity and power, now we did an entire campaign around this, actually. And so now we no longer have, like, what's called, like, the coroner's department. And that's because the coroners don't actually need to have, like, certain medical, like, designations. And in some places they're actually, like, just right. Like, they might not even be doctors. And so now LA county has what's called medical examiners. But essentially when someone dies in custody, which can mean a lot of things, they're supposed to be brought to, like, receive an autopsy where, you know, the medical professional is, like, evaluating everything about the body and, like, documenting these things, they might just say, like, oh, this person's heart stopped. And so then it's up to, like, the deputies to say, this person heart stopped because of xyz. Like, oh, you know, they. They just, like, had a heart attack. But it could be that they were strangled, right? It could be that they were held down. It could be that they were brutalized. The fact that the deputies can just kind of be in there to explain those things away or to offer, in some cases, no explanation, or not even notify the family that this happened.

[Andrew Callahan]

So the deputies, who oftentimes are responsible for the deaths, are in charge of determining the cause, cause of death, and there's no one in between them and now the LA county medical examiners to intervene.

[Janet Asante]

Right.

[Andrew Callahan]

That's pretty crazy.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah. And that's just like one of many horribly corrupt issues that we have with our current justice or injustice system here in LA County.

[Andrew Callahan]

Sounds like we have to do away with the whole thing.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah, sounds like it.

[Andrew Callahan]

Because there's no way. There's no possible way to reform it, because from the probation to the CEO and the Board of Supervisors, to the sheriffs to the. The police to the COs, everything's all bad.

[Janet Asante]

And they get a lot of money to do this. That's the thing. Like, they get $4 billion a year. There was one year where this is the year a lot of people know about this because it was Kobe's passing, where the deputies were sharing photos of the crash that happened. We had a billion dollars in settlements from the Sheriff's Department that year. A billion dollars. That's on top of what they're already budgeting. Right. That's just paying people for the harm that they've caused, which doesn't even match up to the level of harm that they cause. Right. Like, these families aren't getting an amount of money that, like, makes that person's death okay. But, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

I mean, you know, the LA Sheriff's Department, I don't know if also. If you know this as well, but they're also in bed with Scientology.

[Janet Asante]

Oh, I'm. I'm not familiar with that.

[Andrew Callahan]

So the leader of Scientology, David Miscavige, his wife Shelly's been missing for, like, 25 years. Everybody knows he killed her or she's dead for some reason. Maybe she was going to speak out against the church because David Miscavige is known to, like, abused Scientology staff. It's a horrible, terrifying, corrupt, religious organization.

[Janet Asante]

Right.

[Andrew Callahan]

And so, like, everyone knows she's missing. And there was this big campaign, like, we need to find Shelly. And people would say, where's Shelly? So LA Sheriff's Department released this report, and they were like, oh, we checked on her. She's good. And they're like, can you provide some more info? They're like, we talked to her, she said, everything's fine. People are like, can we see a Picture of her. Is there any documentation in Villanueva, actually? Is that how you say, yeah. He was like, don't worry. I talked to her too. And it was like, what? Like, you know, it was just so obvious that she was dead and that they're being paid off. But there's no really, like, governing body to question their behavior.

[Janet Asante]

Well, so that's the thing. Like, actually, the voters voted not only to create the Civilian Oversight Commission that's supposed to, like, oversee the sheriff, but they also voted specifically to give them subpoena power. Villanueva just ignored the subpoenas, and nothing happened, because who's gonna enforce that? Like, if someone else ignores the subpoena, the Sheriff's response department shows up, the sheriffs ignore it, then what? Right? And so in addition to that, like, the Civilian Oversight Commission has tried to, like, file legal amicus briefs, for example, or, like, things that say, hey, the sheriff's department is really messed up. Here are findings. We've done some investigation. You know, we've gone inside or we've heard, like, we've seen footage. Like, whatever evidence they have, like, they'll say, hey, the Sheriff's department is really messed up. Here are recommendations. And the sheriff's, like, the county's own law lawyers will fight the Civilian Oversight Commission because even though you've created this commission within the county, the county has the same legal team for everything. So the same legal team that's defending the Sheriff's Department is supposed to somehow be doing the legal work for the Civilian Oversight Commission within the county. And it's a complete conflict of interest. So it's like.

[Andrew Callahan]

So there's no real autonomous body monitoring their behavior.

[Janet Asante]

Right. One of our campaigns that we're actually doing this year at Dignity and Power now is to fight for the COC to have independently legal counsel. It's gotten to the point where even county council will come into the CoC meetings and tell them, like, no, y' all can't, like, be talking about this. We won't allow you to go into closed session. Like, it's that much of a conflict of interest that, like, these attorneys that are supposed to be working on behalf of the CoC also are the attorneys for, you know, the sheriffs.

[Andrew Callahan]

Are you ever worried about your own safety doing all this work?

[Janet Asante]

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. But in a real sense, like, I'm less vulnerable than, like, pretty much everyone that I have a relationship with who's directly impacted. Right? Like, I'm in a position. I've never been arrested before, for example, despite my many Attempts.

[Andrew Callahan]

You tried to get arrested. Oh, in the field protesting.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

You weren't like, you know, I wanted to ask you for your journey, like in terms of activism, how did it all start for you?

[Janet Asante]

Yeah, I mean, it's hard to trace it back to like where exactly it started.

[Andrew Callahan]

Okay, let me ask you a few questions that might make it make sense.

[Janet Asante]

Okay. Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Where did you grow up?

[Janet Asante]

Houston, Texas. I grew up in Houston, Texas. While I was in Houston, I worked for a number of Texas based organizations and also just generally doing justice work. I have system impacted people in my family. I briefly worked for the Texas Innocence Network doing things on the capital and non capital side. So death penalty, but also non death penalty cases, just as a legal intern. Deeds Not Words. An advocacy based organization working for reproductive justice. But overall, I went to school out here in Claremont and learned way more about what's going on with abolition in LA and just that being like LA being like the epicenter of war.

[Andrew Callahan]

Is it really? Yeah, I would have thought for some reason it was like the Bay or the Pacific Northwest.

[Janet Asante]

Well, LA has the largest jail system in the nation and a lot of people don't realize that, that, you know, this progressive or like blue slave city, so to speak, is like doing these really horrible things. And so I moved here in 2022 to work for Dignity and Power now and specifically be doing comms and Media for Justice LA coalition in theory, like things that like radicalized me over time, I think as you witness things every day. My grandmother, for example, like she also has a severe mental illness and you know, it was so hard to get resources for her. And I think it became becomes really, really fundamental, like to learn like, why do people end up in the system? And I remember I was 12 years old and my uncle like wrote me from prison and this was when George Zimmerman was acquitted. And he was just saying, you know, it's really wild that, you know, I'm in here and George Zimmerman is out there. Right. For killing Trayvon Martin. And so I think those experiences growing up are radicalizing because you start to see what is criminalized and who are the quote, unquote criminals and who is being targeted by.

[Andrew Callahan]

So the past years for you have just been a journey of figuring out how to help.

[Janet Asante]

Absolutely. And that's why when people ask me, what should I do? I'm not an expert who knows all this data and the history of the fight and the jail closure, everything. It's like, you don't have have to be. We need everyone. We need everyone. We need People who are, you know, healthcare providers who are saying, you know, hey, I'm not getting the funding I need. We need people who are, you know, just doing basic youth programs who are saying, like, I really wish I could do this program, but I don't have the funding. I need all of the funding. Like, the sheriff's department is defunding everyone else. So everyone has a stake in this fight. And for me specifically, like, through comms and media and like, I'm personally a creative, like, just in my own life. Um, like, it's. It's really great to be putting my energy towards elevating these everyday stories of the people that I meet in this fight and be pitching it to press and like, be showing folks what's happening on the ground as opposed to, like, working at, like, a PR firm. Right?

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, yeah. You're making me want to get involved, like, you know, do some real shit. Start, like, working with people. Maybe I'll volunteer at a group home or something.

[Janet Asante]

Well, I mean, you don't have to do anything different than what you would normally do. And so that's why we encourage people to sign up for the text actions. Because let's say you're somebody who goes to church. Just tell your church about what's going on. Even if you're not moving people to be fighting for Men's Central Jail Closure, you should be, but even if you're not, people need to know what's actually going on so that when they are voting for different ballot measures, for example, they can know what's fake and what's real. What actually is affecting the most people in our system. And your, like, you have a platform, right, Online. So even if you're not talking directly to Justice LA organizers, like, what are you doing to center people who are, like, affected by all of these different things or their stories? And that's important too. You don't have to go and change your whole life. Education is the first step. Just being generally aware of what's actually going on in your community and not what Target tells you is important. Or like Home Depot.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, definitely. What's Home Depot saying?

[Janet Asante]

Home Depot was also behind proposals proposition 36.

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, why?

[Janet Asante]

I mean, like a Marxist reason why or.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, yeah, Marxist reason. Yeah, Marxist reason.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah, Marxist reason. It's like, it earns them more money in the sense that they can tell, like, people who own stock at Home Depot, like, oh, yeah, like, what hurt us is like, these shoplifting people, like, we'll just like, get behind this bill and like, don't worry about, like, your stock prices. Right. And we've seen that specifically with. With Target. They lied about the level of shoplifting that was actually happening. And when they show sales declining, they can attach it to the fact that, oh, it's because we had to put everything behind glass because the shoplifters and everything. The truth of it is that they're losing more money just from not accurately staffing their stores. People are frustrated. The fact that they have to wait 20 minutes to get a stick of deodorant.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. And I've stolen from Target because they have the self checkout and I forget to scan stuff and I walk out with $100 worth of free shit. Does that make me a criminal?

[Janet Asante]

To be fair, you weren't trained in how to use, like, you know, scanning systems.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah. Target sucks. Yeah, there's a. I mean. I mean, I don't want to Home Depot, though. I feel like they're kind of cool because they let, like, a lot of the migrants, like, get work there.

[Janet Asante]

I mean, it's a great place to get spray paint, if you're into that.

[Andrew Callahan]

They locked that up in Seattle when I was 13. That was a big blow for us. Back to the death penalty.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yay or nay?

[Janet Asante]

Nay. Definitely nay. The state gets so many things wrong. Like, there's a. Abundant evidence that they kill people that they wouldn't want to be killed sometimes.

[Andrew Callahan]

I feel you. But then I saw this video where it was the Parkland families, You know, their children got killed by Nicholas Cruz in the school shooting.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

They reacted to him getting life and not death. And they were all crying because they wanted him to die. And then I thought, like, damn, if the families of, like, seven, 17 or more murder victims, like, want a shooter to die and their kids are dead. Like, that's not even an eye for an eye. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Janet Asante]

When it comes to Nicholas Cruz, is the issue why he killed people or was the issue that he killed people?

[Andrew Callahan]

Both.

[Janet Asante]

I mean, he could still have a reason for wanting to kill people, but that wouldn't be. They wouldn't say, like, oh, let's kill this person who is thinking. Thinking about, like, how much he hates us. Right. Like, they're asking for the death penalty for somebody who killed someone. Right. And the fundamental crime or, like, harm that he caused was murder. Right. And so if murder is the wrong, why does it then become right? Because you have a different reason for wanting to do it. You know, it's like, well, I guess.

[Andrew Callahan]

The people have attached their grief to that outcome.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah, I mean, it's not that they, I mean, who's to say what victims of this horrible tragedy want, but it's like ultimately what they want is for their loved ones to still be alive. If I ask for these sheriff's department gang members, for example, to be hung from the center of la, it's like that wouldn't bring John Horton back. And that's ultimately not what I'm asking for. What I'm asking for is for there to be care in the community, mental health care, resources, housing and treatment. Obviously, people should be held accountable, but like, me going over there and like beating them with a flashlight until they die isn't going to stop what's actually happening every single day here in la. And in the case of, you know, school shooters or, you know, mass shooters generally, and things like that, like killing Nicholas Cruz won't solve that either.

[Andrew Callahan]

Yeah, I guess I've just been trying to like, cope with my visceral emotional reaction to that because I've always thought like, man, hell, no, death penalty's horrible. But then I'm like, I've never experienced something like my children being killed in a school shooting. And this is what all these parents want. Like, who am I to tell them that they're wrong me for.

[Janet Asante]

For wanting that before we even get to the consequences? When somebody has been determined to have committed something really heinous like that. When it comes to just the history of the death penalty and just lynching people, modern day lynching and also pre or post Jim Crow era, the people who get to make that determination are extremely corrupt and oftentimes aren't worthy of even determining, like, whose life is worth living. There's so many cases where not only has somebody been found to be, you know, innocent after the fact, but even ongoing. In Texas, for example, I mentioned I worked for the Texas Innocence Network, there are, there was like one legal avenue that we have to appeal to the state and then to the Supreme Court for somebody if new evidence in their trial is found, right. We say, okay, hey, like, we have DNA evidence now to prove that this might person is innocent. And Texas actually decided, like, we're actually, we don't want to review those anymore even if there's new evidence. So those are the people who like the state is actually killing. And this to me, like, I'm glad you brought this up because it is an emotional thing. Like people are coming from a place of like, you know, like you said, an eye for an eye. But again, like Nikolas Cruz, the reason I know his Name is because it's like, it's a fringe case. And when you look at the people that are getting churned through, you know, the death penalty system, and in states like Texas, there's so many people who are, who just should not be getting killed by using our state money, using people that we pay to kill people.

[Andrew Callahan]

I guess maybe we're also like conditioned to believe because incarceration is so deep in the way we think about consequence that like, that makes sense. So probably the families are like, I want justice. We believe because we have been conditioned to think that the justice is the death penalty. Yeah, it's almost like people can't think bigger than capital. So a world without capitalism is terrifying to people because that's like bigger than God. It's like, wait, how do we determine value without these things? We've been taught. I think that it's similar with the death penalty in life in prison. Because I know that if I kill somebody, I'm doing life. And the idea is that that consequence will in turn stop me from doing that. But the reality is I probably wouldn't do that even if there was no consequence because it's morally wrong.

[Janet Asante]

I mean, when you look on a large scale, a lot of what incarceration is, it's a system of control. Control. And who has the power to execute on the behalf of the state is really indicative of that. Sorry, that was maybe a convoluted way to word that.

[Andrew Callahan]

No, I see what you're saying. Who are the executioners though.

[Janet Asante]

Right, right. And we see that because there's people dying every day based on decisions that corporations, for example, like health care companies or insurance companies that make the determinations that literally either keep someone alive or kill them, but like they're not being thrown in prison because it's a money based decision. Like it's a capitalist decision and that's the way.

[Andrew Callahan]

So you fuck with Luigi.

[Janet Asante]

I mean, on behalf of my organization. No, you know, I'm a gamer, so. Mario, Luigi. Great guys, you know.

[Andrew Callahan]

Wait, are you actually a gamer? I see what you're doing, but you do fuck with games.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah, I do.

[Andrew Callahan]

Top five games.

[Janet Asante]

Ooh. Okay, so first of all, I'm an adventure game player.

[Andrew Callahan]

Oh, me too.

[Janet Asante]

Okay, so any Lucasfilms? It'd be hard to pick between. Secret to Monkey Island, Grim Fandango, Day of the Tentacle. These are all like. I just love that kind of puzzle stuff I'm currently playing. I think it's called Cause of the Golden Idol. I just call it Golden Idol, but it's a similar clip clue based finding game. There's a game out right now to me, game of the year, called Blueprints. Have you heard of it? Okay, well, never mind. It's blueprints spelled like blue and then prince, like monarch prince. So the concept is like, basically you show up on this estate. I know we're like, so off topic, but like, you show up on this estate and like, you get to build out the rooms of the mansion. There's like a draft pool for which rooms you build. And you ultimately, like, want to reach certain end goals. You only have 50 steps a day before you're like exhausted and you have to camp out. But each day you start over from scratch and you find out clues along the way. I don't actually know the end game. I'm trying not to get spoiled. But it's like, the strategy is cool and it's the kind of thing that I spend a lot of my time doing. Abolition stuff and organizer work. So it's like I can unplug from.

[Andrew Callahan]

The Internet while simultaneously keeping the strategic part of your mind engaged.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, I like to relax by solving more problems. But, yeah, me too.

[Andrew Callahan]

How would you like for someone who wants an introduction to literature regarding prison abolition, do you have any books or authors you'd recommend?

[Janet Asante]

Absolutely. So if you're looking to get into like, freedom, like liberation more generally, Audre Lorde is really great. Angela Davis, of course, Angela Richie, who I think is one of the people who's contemporary and just really has their finger on the pulse of what's going on today. I mean, the new Jim Crow. As far as specific books. I mean, there's so much out there. I feel like books can sometimes feel like a real barrier. Like, people feel like, oh, yeah, I need to read a lot of books to be an abolitionist. You really don't. There's things we can teach you what's going on currently in your community. It doesn't require necessarily that reading, but there is a fundamental set of values that you can gain through other means. Some people, it's because they've been directly impacted. They were incarcerated for something. They're like, okay, incarceration didn't help me. Here's what I actually needed. And for some reason, some people, like, if you're. If you feel like you're really distanced from that, the books do help because you can learn about the history of how we got here.

[Andrew Callahan]

But yeah, reading can be difficult, though.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah. I mean, attention spans for our generation.

[Andrew Callahan]

I feel like there's an Anti reading agenda at play.

[Janet Asante]

No, there fully is and I'm aware of that. So I hesitate to be like, yeah, I could recommend books, but also follow us on social media.

[Andrew Callahan]

And I feel like most people our age reading a book or trying to impress somebody or make a statement or either was reading in public. They're at the bus stop, they're at the park. I'm like, okay, I see what you're doing. I know as soon as you get home you're closing that shit.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah. Or just like kind of when you said online, like there's people who are like, oh yeah, I totally owned the right. Like I read this book and like I quoted Marx to them and like their argument was unsound and like, okay, like you did that. But like that can't be the end.

[Andrew Callahan]

Just like debate in content culture is so fried. That's why I want to start doing stuff in real life. Cause I feel like, I mean there is awareness is good and fundraising is good, but sometimes when you do political stuff online too much, it's just like, what am I doing? I mean, changing minds. I know it does benefit people, but like, it's way easier to get involved in real life.

[Janet Asante]

You really should get involved in real life. And that's like, if there's any one takeaway, I would tell people it's like, get involved in real life. Yeah, tell them, get involved in real life.

[Andrew Callahan]

Real life.

[Janet Asante]

In real life. Yeah. Follow Justice LA now. Oh, sorry, is it this one? My bad. Follow Justice LA now. Get involved in real life. Follow dignity and power. If you're looking at statewide stuff, let's say you're not in Los Angeles. Go to Care First California if you want to learn more data. They didn't ask me to say this, but prison policy initiative Vera Institute also has some great resources. They specifically have a tracker on men's central jail closure that tracks like the pre trial population, the mental health population, the people who should have been diverted by. Now all of that is easily accessible online if that's what you need to do. And you can't read a book. It's super. It's got some animations and all of that kind of stuff. You know, we're seeing the record numbers of in custody deaths this year. We're at 18 deaths in 2025 and there's been 18 weeks in 2025. So this is a life or death issue and it's happening right here in the United States, not somewhere else in some other country where you can judge their elected officials happening in your backyard. So get involved in your backyard.

[Andrew Callahan]

Appreciate your time so much. Thanks for coming on.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah, thanks for having us.

[Andrew Callahan]

Great job. That was tight. Hope you you had fun.

[Janet Asante]

Yeah.

[Andrew Callahan]

Channel 5 live worldwide, Hollywood and Vine. The Authority, Channel 5 news, Channel 55. We don't with custers and 5 is the best number. Hey, what's up guys? Ah, hey, man. Thanks for that web link. It's really working. I don't know if you guys missed the memo, but we just dropped an entire feature film. That's right. A full blown movie. @www.Dear K kellyfilm.com Dear Kelly film.com It's an action packed movie that revolves around the life and times of Kelly Johnson, AKA Kelly J. Patriot Kobe Bryant was assassinated by the Clintons. Come here, Nazi. You're going to Guantanamo. Oh my gosh. What did I do? Am I getting canceled? The Democrats don't like you. They're gonna cancel you. It documents his semi estranged family and their attempt to pull him out of the rabbit hole. Aren't you selling baby parts? Yes or no? Don't tread on me. Don't even think. Think about it. I don't want to say too much, but it's a good movie. If you guys want to watch it, it would mean a lot. Www.DearKellyFilm.com it's available for rent and buy. You can rent it for $5.55 or you can buy it for $15.55. Www.Dear Kellyfilm.com www.Dear Kellyfilm.comwww.de.