Podcast Summary: Life After Bumfights & Indecline's War on America: 5CAST w/ Andrew Callaghan (#11)

Podcast Information:

• Title: 5CAST w/ Andrew Callaghan
• Host: Andrew Callaghan
• Episode: Life After Bumfights & Indecline's War on America (#11)
• Release Date: August 10, 2025
• Description: This episode features a candid interview with Ryan McPherson and Daniel Tanner, founding members of the radical art collective Indecline, discussing their controversial past with "Bumfights" and their evolution into Indecline’s current activism and art projects.

1. Introduction to Bumfights and Its Legacy

Ryan McPherson opens the discussion by reflecting on the controversial "Bumfights" project, questioning its reception and the motivations behind its creation:

“Bumfights. To explain it to somebody now feels so much more tame than it did like in 2010. Why in the world would anybody buy this thing?” ([00:00])

Daniel Tanner adds context about the long-term consequences faced by the creators:

“And for those who think there haven't been consequences, it's like there have 20 years of them going back wouldn't do that again.” ([00:15])

Ryan expresses admiration for artists with diverse backgrounds and unconventional approaches:

“Some of my favorite artists ever are the ones that are always on some different shit.” ([00:21])

2. Transition from Bumfights to Indecline

Andrew Callahan delves into the ethical boundaries between exploitation and documentation, sharing personal experiences where they chose not to publish certain footage for ethical reasons ([00:42]).

The conversation shifts to the impact of "Bumfights," highlighting its widespread condemnation, legal issues, and the eventual sale of its rights by Ryan at a young age:

“Ryan, then not even 20 years old, sold the rights away for all future sequels and stepped away from Bumfights for good to focus on an independent artistic venture called Indecline.” ([05:00])

Ryan recounts the early days of "Bumfights," including their interactions with Donnie and Rufus, two homeless individuals who became local celebrities due to their willingness to perform stunts for beer ([28:37]).

3. Evolution into Indecline’s Activism and Art

Daniel Tanner describes Indecline as an organic artist collective focused on message-driven projects that challenge societal norms:

“The name Indecline kind of gives you some idea of what it's about... the idea that like a lot of the things when you look at the political situation today... we'd like to show what's going on underneath that fuels the illusion or the dream.” ([07:19])

Ryan McPherson outlines Indecline’s diverse range of projects, from billboard altercations to large-scale guerrilla art installations:

“We've installed life sized butt naked nude statues of Trump across the country, painted giant anti-war murals on military training grounds, hijacked dozens upon dozens of billboards...” ([10:03])

The collective emphasizes the importance of fun and therapeutic purposes in their activism:

“Contrary to popular belief, if you're going to engage in this kind of stuff, you need to have fun. It needs to serve a therapeutic purpose as much as it serves a public service purpose.” ([12:18])

4. Ethical Considerations and Direct Action

Andrew raises questions about the ethics of their work, particularly in confrontational environments:

“What's the line between exploitation and documentation?” ([00:42])

Ryan and Daniel discuss their approach to direct action, advocating for property disruption as a form of protest against consumerism and corporatization:

“A billboard in the forest is. Putting a billboard in the city is property destruction. You're colonizing the space in our heads.” ([73:45])

They argue that property destruction isn't intrinsically negative but a means to challenge societal constructs:

“We feel that, like, there's all sorts of property destruction all the time. Strip mining is property destruction. Gentrification is property destruction.” ([73:37])

5. Impact and Public Reception

The hosts discuss the mixed reactions to Indecline's projects, from legal repercussions to media attention:

“Bumfights traveled from La Mesa across the entire planet at a rate in which the videographers couldn't imagine, resulting in widespread condemnation for obvious reasons, lawsuits and even the arrest of the directors for illegal prize fighting in far over their heads.” ([05:00])

Ryan recounts instances where their work led to significant legal and social fallout, emphasizing the importance of accountability:

“We've been putting in work since 2000 out here, you know, so they hate you guys for. Hate us. We don't mince words when it comes to Them in any form.” ([87:31])

6. Reflections on Modern Activism and Culture

Andrew and the guests explore the transformation of political culture, particularly the rise of cancel culture and its implications for activism:

“A cancel culture is about canceling.” ([44:29])

Daniel elaborates on the dangers of cancel culture, comparing it to historical movements and emphasizing the need for open communication and accountability without persecution:

“If you don't have accountability and a path to restitution, then you're in the French Revolution... it's like... Those systems were built to fight for who gets to be the police.” ([44:38])

7. Projects Highlighted: Billboard Liberation and Art Installations

Ryan details specific projects, such as altering McDonald's billboards to critique consumerism:

“We removed them completely. We cut them into 8 by 11 pieces. We stenciled Respect Existence or Expect Resistance on them and mailed those out as individual works of art for $50 a piece and raised $9,500 for the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund in a matter of 48 hours.” ([72:04])

Daniel underscores the significance of these actions as direct responses to societal issues rather than mere acts of defiance:

“We're advocating for property destruction as a means to disrupt and challenge existing societal norms and corporate messages.” ([73:37])

8. Personal Stories and Anecdotes

Ryan shares personal anecdotes about interactions with figures like Bling Bling and the impact of their work on individuals’ lives:

“And the fascinating thing about that was when we sold the rights, the criminal and civil investigations were heating up. So you have the people we sold it to who now own the rights to it... it’s a whole lesson for anybody in your profession.” ([36:08])

Daniel emphasizes the human relationships formed during their projects, highlighting moments of care and responsibility:

“We've put $40 grand in a bank account for them. We have a trustee situation. There was rent, there was apartment keys... it's about ensuring their well-being beyond just documentation.” ([38:00])

9. Future Projects and Aspirations

The guests hint at upcoming projects, maintaining secrecy to protect their operations:

“Most of them, we can't talk because it's like they're... you're putting the blueprint out and giving people a head start on, like, so you have to keep certain things under wraps.” ([86:28])

Ryan discusses their strategic planning and the meticulous execution required for their large-scale art installations:

“It's like the most well-oiled bank robbery you could imagine. Every billboard, every project... is all about the execution and handling fallout.” ([66:46])

10. Closing Remarks and Shoutouts

Andrew concludes the episode by acknowledging the ongoing struggles and resilience of activists, while also giving shoutouts to organizations supporting their causes:

“What we're trying to do is point people in directions that are way more impactful...,” ([82:17])

Ryan and Daniel express admiration for organizations like the Sidewalk Project and encourage listeners to volunteer and support local initiatives:

“Shine a Light's the real deal... If you're in Las Vegas and watching this, you should go to Devoid magazine... and get the contact info to all five of these organizations. We believe in all them.” ([82:15])

Notable Quotes:

• Ryan McPherson ([00:00]): “Bumfights. To explain it to somebody now feels so much more tame than it did like in 2010. Why in the world would anybody buy this thing?”

• Andrew Callahan ([00:42]): “Brothers, brothers, brothers. Got a question for you guys. Where exactly is the line between exploitation and documentation?”

• Daniel Tanner ([07:19]): “The name Indecline kind of gives you some idea of what it's about... the idea that like a lot of the things when you look at the political situation today... we'd like to show what's going on underneath that fuels the illusion or the dream.”

• Ryan McPherson ([73:45]): “A billboard in the forest is. Putting a billboard in the city is property destruction. You're colonizing the space in our heads.”

• Daniel Tanner ([44:38]): “If you don't have accountability and a path to restitution, then you're in the French Revolution... It's like... Those systems were built to fight for who gets to be the police.”

Conclusion

In this episode of 5CAST w/ Andrew Callaghan, Ryan McPherson and Daniel Tanner provide a deep dive into their tumultuous journey from the creation of the controversial "Bumfights" to their current role in Indecline's radical art and activism. They discuss the ethical boundaries of documentary work, the impact of their projects on both themselves and society, and their unwavering commitment to direct action as a form of protest against consumerism and corporatization. The conversation also touches on the challenges posed by modern political culture, including cancel culture, and emphasizes the importance of accountability, open communication, and meaningful activism. Through personal anecdotes and reflections, the guests illustrate the complexities and sacrifices involved in pushing the boundaries of art and activism over two decades.