Nick Shirley Interview

Summary

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5CAST w/ Andrew Callaghan

Nick Shirley Interview

Recorded: January 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features journalist and YouTuber Nick Shirley, best known for his viral expose on daycare fraud in Minnesota. The discussion centers on the fallout from his reporting, government accountability, fraud within social service programs, immigration, identity, media credibility, and broader political themes. The conversation is candid, occasionally confrontational, and features both hosts’ personal perspectives on the media landscape and American society.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Minnesota Daycare Fraud Exposé

• Viral Impact: Nick's video on fraud in Minnesota became the most viewed video by any creator (aside from MrBeast) over 10 minutes in length (~500 million views) ([00:00]).
• High-Profile Shares: The video was boosted by figures like Elon Musk and J.D. Vance. Health and Human Services froze daycare funding in Minnesota following the video's release ([00:19]).
• Fraudulent Operation Details:
  • “Quality Learning Center” was found with over 90 violations and had not been seen operating as a real daycare by neighbors for eight years ([00:55], [02:35]).
  • Nick recounts his attempts to access the center, the lack of observable children, boarded-up windows, and inconsistencies in reported operating hours ([00:53]-[01:42]).
  • After the video went viral, officials gave conflicting statements about whether the daycare remained open ([03:36]).

"Neighbors around it said they have not seen a child there for eight years." — Nick Shirley ([02:35])

2. Systemic Fraud, Ethnicity, and State Response

• Allegations Against Specific Communities: Nick repeatedly claims that a large majority (89%) of identified welfare fraud in Minnesota is committed by Somali immigrants, referencing this in relation to welfare statistics ([05:20], [26:11], [60:24]).

• Government Accountability:

  • Health and Human Services demanded legitimacy proof from businesses; none responded within three days ([05:29]).
  • Nick expresses skepticism regarding the government’s ability to manage taxpayer funds:

    "No, I don't think any of us should. I mean, just last year alone, over $120 billion were misplaced." — Nick Shirley ([06:02])

• Political Fallout: The scandal contributed to Minnesota Governor Tim Walz ending his re-election campaign ([07:39]), referencing the political and media pressure generated by Nick’s investigation.

3. Media, Narrative, and Creator Economy

• Mainstream Media Criticism: Nick and Andrew discuss how legacy outlets focus on smearing independent creators rather than reporting on fraud itself. Nick notes being branded as a 'right-wing YouTuber' rather than as a journalist ([12:20]).
• Rise of Independent Media: Both predict a coming shift away from legacy news as new generations age ([33:34]-[34:06]).
• Censorship and Monetization: Nick credits Elon Musk’s X acquisition for reducing censorship and enabling more open conversation on digital platforms ([23:10]-[24:16]).
• Government’s Relationship to Creators: Andrew raises concerns about future co-optation of influencers by political actors ([11:50]-[12:07]).

4. Background & Motivation

• Nick Shirley’s Upbringing: Grew up in Utah as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, engaged in sports, and began creating content as a high schooler ([15:13]-[15:24]).
• Mission Work: Served in Chile, learned Spanish, and was exposed to societal contrasts leading to social and political interest ([19:06]-[19:31]).
• Career Development: Early YouTube efforts focused on lighthearted or cultural topics before shifting to politics after experiences at the border and seeing issues like trafficking ([19:44]-[20:22]).

5. Immigration, Housing, and Social Tension

• Views on Immigration:
  • Nick asserts migrants are used as political pawns and links immigration volume to housing unaffordability and strained social programs ([20:50], [44:05]).
  • Andrew counters, attributing housing costs to broader economic trends and developer-driven gentrification ([44:18]).
• Supply and Demand Debate: Extended disagreement over whether immigration directly drives housing prices, with Nick emphasizing supply/demand and Andrew focusing on economic policy and profit-driven landlords ([44:39]-[47:08]).
• Integration & Identity: Nick argues that all Americans, regardless of background, have equal institutional opportunity, though Andrew raises issues of structural inequality ([40:12]-[40:54]).

"Everybody has the same opportunity. If you're a United States citizen, whether you're black, Mexican, Asian…" — Nick Shirley ([40:23])

6. Critiques of Nonprofit and NGO Ecosystem

• Nonprofit 'Industrial Complex': Nick suggests that some nonprofits exist merely to siphon government funds, with weak oversight ([05:12]-[05:20]).
• Welfare and Work: Asserts the system incentivizes fraud and noncompliance, with claims that certain welfare programs are exploited to game the system ([62:06]-[63:12]).
• Polygamy Stereotypes and Religion: Touches on stereotypes about Somali Muslim families and draws comparisons to Mormon practices, leading to an exchange on cultural misunderstandings and biases ([61:05]-[61:59]).

7. Race, Media Framing, & Social Friction

• Media Labels: Nick complains about being called fascist or Nazi by left-leaning critics and details receiving death threats ([28:24]-[29:22]).
• "All Lives Matter" Discourse: Expresses disagreement with framing of racial justice slogans, favoring a universalist perspective ([29:23]-[29:54]).
• Cultural Clash and Stereotypes: Several moments devolve into heated territory as Nick presses Andrew about alleged statistical realities and stereotypes, leading to tense exchanges on Somali identity and community reputation ([31:03]-[35:55]).

8. Accountability, Solutions, and Vision for the Future

• Confronting Fraud: Nick repeatedly advocates for stiffer measures against fraud:

  "Go freeze the funding. Each business can then prove if they are legit and if they can't, cut the funding." — Nick Shirley ([05:29])

• Political Preferences: Strong support for Donald Trump, citing perceived results at the border and on social spending ([21:00], [38:03]).
• Future Outlook: Both hosts reflect on the potential for independent and community-driven journalism to effect substantial change, though Nick is pessimistic about meaningful third-party disruption until the generational turnover is complete ([52:34]-[54:26]).
• Personal Risks: Nick describes being doxxed and living under increased security because of his reporting ([28:16]-[28:50]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mainstream Media’s Reaction:
  “That's why they will never give us credit. So when they see me doing what I'm doing, when they see me get more views, then they will get onto their website for the whole entire year on one single video. Yeah, it's gonna make a lot of people mad.” — Nick Shirley ([12:38])

• On Welfare Fraud and Ethnicity:
  “81% of the Somalian population inside Minnesota is living off welfare. And 89% of the fraud being committed inside Minnesota is by the Somalian population.” — Nick Shirley ([05:20])

• On Death Threats and Political Labels:
  “One person sent me a photo...He said, this is going to be you on April 27th on the side of a highway. And it was a photo of a man with his head decapitated in a trench. Another person openly said, tick tock, tick tock, Nick. Shirley time's coming...I have 24. 7 security with me right now…” — Nick Shirley ([28:26])

• On the Creator Economy:
  “Essentially, we're a threat to their entire industry. That's why they hate. That's why they will never give us credit.” — Nick Shirley ([12:51])

• Andrew on Developer & Immigration:
  “Landlords raise prices when rich people move in because they go, we got some big bucks in town like in Aspen or somewhere.” — Andrew ([45:36])

• Disagreement on Opportunity in the US:
  “They have the same opportunity I do when I wake up in the morning to go create the best life I can possibly create for myself...Everybody has the same opportunity.” — Nick Shirley ([40:23])

  “Well, there's pretty significant, like, funding and financial disparities between areas in the U.S.” — Andrew ([40:12])

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Useful Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00]-[03:45]: Breakdown of Minnesota daycare fraud, Quality Learning Center exposé
• [05:12]-[06:59]: Welfare, fraud, and Somali community
• [12:20]-[13:34]: Media branding and impact on credibility
• [15:13]-[19:31]: Nick’s background, upbringing, missionary work, early career
• [23:10]-[24:16]: Censorship, Elon Musk’s influence, platform monetization
• [44:05]-[47:08]: Debate over immigration and housing affordability
• [61:05]-[61:59]: Polygamy, religious practices, stereotypes
• [28:16]-[29:54]: Discussing threats and cultural tension
• [52:34]-[54:26]: The future of political parties and the media
• [55:36]-[58:40]: Policing, crime data, and National Guard deployments
• [60:24]-[63:28]: Welfare fraud, community targeting, and systemic reform

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Tone & Style

• Candid, Brash, Populist: The conversation maintains a conversational, sometimes adversarial edge, with both participants wielding personal experience and polemic.
• Attribution: Both Nick and Andrew provide personal anecdotes and openly argue their perspectives.
• Engagement with Complexity: At times, the conversation simplistically frames issues along populist or partisan lines; other moments include efforts to clarify nuances or bridge divides.

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Summary

This episode provides an unfiltered, multi-faceted window into the current divide over government corruption, media trust, and socioeconomic pressures in America. Nick Shirley’s viral investigation acts as a springboard for wide-ranging discussion encompassing fraud, race, immigration, the pitfalls of legacy and independent media, and the fraught landscape of American identity politics. The result is an episode that is as divisive as it is revealing, serving as both a chronicle of internet-era journalism's rise and a case study in America's ongoing culture wars.

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Transcript

[A]

My video on the expose of the fraud in Minnesota is the most viewed video ever by a creator longer than 10 minutes than anybody other than the name of Mr. Beast. Altogether it did around 500 million views.

[B]

Who do you think were the main people who signal boosted the video and brought it into that true viral orbit?

[A]

Elon Musk, who shared the. Shared the video. J.D. vance, he shared the video. You had the Attorney General, but she actually didn't share it. She reacted to the video a few days later. Literally. Quite frankly, every account on X saw that video instantaneously. Health and Human Services, they froze all funding to childcare inside of Minnesota. And then they're asking for businesses to prove that they are legit businesses before they give tax dollars to these businesses that are not really businesses.

[B]

As far as that main center that you visited, Quality Learning, AKA Quality Learning Center.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was there ever any kids there in the first place?

[A]

No. So that daycare center, it's been operating fraudulently. It's actually had over 90 violations over the past few years. And the day that I went there, I went there at 11:00am Their operating hours are from 2 to 10:00pm they're now saying. And that's actually not legal.

[B]

So you said you went there at 11 o' clock in the morning?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And their operating hours are between 2 and 10pm allegedly. But if that is true, would it have made sense that you didn't see any kids there?

[A]

Yeah, it would have made sense if I didn't see children there. Either way, whether I was there when kids were supposed to be there, why are all the windows boarded up? Or why are all the windows blacked out? Why is there no phone number that leads to anywhere? These businesses are supposed to be operating to serve children. People should be able to check in their child there and their children into these daycares. It's literally impossible.

[B]

Did you see some of the footage released by CBS Minnesota affiliate station that showed kids entering and exiting the facility?

[A]

Yeah. The one on the abc? Yeah. So that one, that one received over a million dollars. It's licensed for 40 children. CBS, I believe they go in there the day after I had posted my video. Obviously they're going to have children there when they're getting all this heat. I take my kids here 2:00 clock to 10. Yeah, there's a lot of kids inside and same thing at that daycare. Why are all the windows blacked out? This is a daycare. Why can't a lady just give me a paper to enroll a child? This door is locked.

[B]

This facility is licensed for 40 children. Well, I guess maybe I'm just trying to think from all perspectives and help you clear up some misconceptions. Yeah, I mean, I figure like if you're going with a camera and like three or four dudes, some of whom are like larger security looking guys, some had face gaiters on, maybe there's a fear that there's like something weird going on or it just seems unfamiliar and they feel like they don't want to let you in.

[A]

Yeah, they might feel that fear. But if they're operating legally, why would they have anything to fear? And the neighbors around it said they have not seen a child there for eight years. And if you go on Google Maps right now, you can actually see the images of the daycare progress over the past few years. And starting in 2021, the door is boarded up from the image from Google Maps. So I think like if you show that, it's actually pretty crazy to see. And then they moved the building and they cut open a door on the backside of the building as well, where they had a quality learning center. One man, been living there since 2017 hasn't seen a seen a single child. And when I go and post my video on X, a lot of people are saying, well, Nick, you went during winter break. Well, actually I went December 16th, school was still in session, so kids should still be going to daycare. The following days after the video then goes viral and gets over 100 million views, they have a person come out and he says, no, we're open. I'm the manager, I'm the son of the owners. We're open at that same time. Simultaneously, the lady who's in charge, the commissioner of children of Minnesota says the daycare closed a week ago.

[B]

Quality learning center, which Brown says permanently closed last week.

[A]

While we have questions about some of the methods that were used in the video, we do take the concerns that the video raises about fraud very seriously. So I filmed my video. Daycare is allegedly open. Then a few days later, the lady says that the daycare was closed. While that guy is outside telling people that the daycare is open.

[B]

I mean, it seems like that learning center has had a serious history of violations.

[A]

Called the learning center. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Going back to 2020.

[A]

Yeah, it's literally not a daycare.

[B]

But how could they have violations related to childcare if there was no kids there?

[A]

Yeah, the way they're operating inside of there, they had the violations. Those people are not. They were operating fraudulently inside that daycare.

[B]

But fraud would Mean, there's no kids, but the violations relate to, like, poor safety conditions that put the kids in danger.

[A]

And so why would they be operating and why would Minnesota continue to be giving them millions of dollars if they're receiving all these violations?

[B]

That seems like a really valid question.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why do you think Minnesota would be giving a daycare center with so many violations so much money?

[A]

Well, that same man at Quality Learning center who was saying that they were open after the commissioner was on the live stream saying they were closed a week ago, was also partying with the mayor of Minneapolis is the manager of the infamous learning center in Minneapolis. Also, one of the guys that was dancing in the back of Mayor Jacob Frey's election victory video, the one that went super viral where he thinks his constituents in Somali for re electing him last month.

[B]

So you feel like there's kind of like some non profit, industrial complex type of deal happening?

[A]

For sure.

[B]

And the agenda is just for people to leech off the government and get free stuff.

[A]

81% of the Somalian population inside Minnesota is living off welfare. And 89% of the fraud being committed inside Minnesota is by the Somalian population.

[B]

So what do you think the solution to something like that is?

[A]

Go freeze the funding. Each business can then prove if they are legit and if they can't, cut the funding. And so far, no business has sent any information to the HHS showing that they're legit as of today, they've had three days to do it. They haven't been able to prove it. They haven't even tried to make the effort to show that they're legit business.

[B]

First it was closed, then it was open, and now we've confirmed it's closed again. That's all after the owners recently rejected allegations of stealing taxpayer money. Do you trust America and the government specifically to handle our taxpayer funds correctly and properly if they have access to more of them?

[A]

No, I don't think any of us should. I mean, just last year alone, over $120 billion were misplaced.

[B]

So you have a general distrust in the government?

[A]

No, I don't have a distrust necessarily in the government. But do I think we should trust the government 100%? No. It's kind of like having faith. Like, do you want to have faith that God's real? Yes. When we die, will we for certain know exactly where we're going? You kind of walk with faith in a way where you hope that the people that you elect are going to work for your best interest. Do you know for certainty that the best thing is happening inside the country every single time you pay taxes, it's going to go to the place that needs it? No. But on that case, do I feel certain that I know where I'm going to go when I die because of my faith? Yes. But does that mean that it's going to actually happen? Who knows until we pass the other side. So, and then another thing is, we as Americans, how should we feel comfortable knowing that there are daycares receiving millions of dollars while some families are paying upwards of $70,000 a year for their children going to daycare?

[B]

Do you ever hear about the Amy Bach case?

[A]

The White Lady? Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Amy Bach acknowledged the government has proven fraud among meal sites and vendors that she sponsored underfeeding our future, but that it was others, not her. If you look at the probe that began in 2023, as far as like Covid era, you know, scamming and different types of fraud, there's been over like 60 convictions and millions seized from the fraudsters who took the money away. But you feel like the state hasn't done enough.

[A]

Well, Tim Watts has said they've been stopping to fight fraud since 2019, 2026, and they're still having millions of dollars being stolen. Billions of dollars. Breaking political news out of Minnesota.

[B]

Governor Tim Walz, who of course was.

[A]

The Democratic nominee for vice president in.

[B]

2024, has ended his re election bid for governor. This comes as pressure has been growing.

[A]

Around this widening welfare fraud scandal. We've got conspiracy theories, theorist, right wing YouTubers breaking into our daycares demanding access to our children. So I've decided to step out of.

[B]

This race and I'll let others worry about the election while I focus on the work that's in front of me for the next year.

[A]

I have quite literally saved America millions of dollars. That's why he saw the mainstream media attack me instantaneously after I exposed $100 million in fraud. Why would they not go investigate the fraud? Why? Why would they investigate the person who investigated the fraud?

[B]

Where does that $100 million figure come from specifically?

[A]

Yeah, so you had all the daycares. With the daycares alone, you had millions of dollars in fraud. And then inside of the home healthcare businesses, they were warehouse style industrialized buildings where you had 14 of the same healthcare companies all working within the building and they could not even give you a rate. We know how expensive healthcare is and they're giving these companies millions of dollars. And the man, David, who's in my video, he's the One who had the statistics and has the numbers on how much these businesses were operating. It is far worse than anybody can imagine.

[B]

You heard it's 7 to 10 billion and maybe more. And now the numbers have been revised.

[A]

And put out there publicly that they think it's more like 8 billion.

[B]

How did you come into contact with David?

[A]

He just messaged me on Instagram and he said, nick, I have the information about the fraud taking place here inside Minnesota. I've been looking into it for years. I have somebody from inside the Capitol who has given me the numbers of CCAP funding. I've been trying for years to expose this fraud. Nobody will listen to me. Please give me a call.

[B]

Has he shown you that data?

[A]

Yeah, that's a. That's what's inside the video. When you see the video and screenshots of the CCAP funding, that's all straight from the capital of Minnesota.

[B]

So who is David's source?

[A]

David's source? He has somebody inside the Capitol and you don't know. And that's public information as well.

[B]

Who is it?

[A]

Who is the person's name? Yeah, the lady's name. I did not work with her. However, the information that was provided. I can't tell you her name right now, but I could pine on X because. But she's also inside the government there, inside Minnesota.

[B]

But you like fact checked all that and you looked it all up?

[A]

Yeah, David, all those numbers are straight from the Capitol.

[B]

So a couple days ago, Minnesota State Representative Lisa DeMuth said that her Republican caucus had been, quote, working with you ahead of your coverage. How do you respond to that?

[A]

Yeah, I had no idea who she was. Our caucus has been working to expose fraud for years, including working with Nick shirley. Minnesota House GOP leaders say they provided the YouTuber with information in the now viral video.

[B]

So you feel like she's just clout chasing.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I literally put in the reply in the tweet. Her campaign freaked out when I, when I tweeted that. That's the lady who I was referring to earlier in this interview. So her staff was the people that David had received the information because David reached out and she works inside the government, so she did actually a good job by doing what she's supposed to do, by serving the people and giving that information.

[B]

Yeah, it says that Harry Niska, a Republican representative who's a staffer for her, was the one who gave the intel to David.

[A]

Yeah, that probably sounds about right. But good on her for actually caring about fraud. Fraud's been taking place for years.

[B]

And it's really affected the city on that big of a level to the point where people like David are feeling it.

[A]

Yeah. Because what they knew is Minnesota is not Minnesota anymore as far as immigration goes. Immigration goes. Fraud. They just released a new thing where they're giving people 20 week leaves for work leaves. And they've also raised property taxes. Meanwhile, you have billions of dollars, quite frankly, literally billions of dollars over the past few years going to fraud. It's not a hyperbole, it's fact. The government has shown that upwards of $9 billion has gone to fraud. I would vote for anybody but Tim Wallace inside that state of Minnesota.

[B]

Yeah, definitely. I'm glad you cleared that up because, you know, it's like the same reason that people lost trust in traditional media is because they felt like there was no barrier between the establishment and, you know, corporate news pundits. And they felt like CNN was an arm of the Democratic Party and then Fox was an arm of the conservative wing. So the fear, now that I've thought about before, and I'm not saying this is happening, will probably take like five to 10 years, is that somehow the political powers that be figure out how to use the independent creator economy, like on a sleeper cell level to do their bidding for them.

[A]

Yeah, that could happen.

[B]

Like with influencer contracts and stuff like that.

[A]

Yeah, you saw the DNC do that. All the people are talking that are out talking against me. A lot of them have got checks.

[B]

From the DNC through like a paid influencer program.

[A]

Yeah. And it's open, it's public.

[B]

Would you ever agree to something like that?

[A]

No, never.

[B]

Hell yeah.

[A]

Like why? I don't need it. I make enough money doing my videos off YouTube. And the people that support me, like, why would it ever turn against their best interest?

[B]

And you mentioned that the mainstream media has kind of been attacking you since this video did its rounds. What are some of the things they've said? Like, what's their main point of attack?

[A]

Yeah, if you listen, every single time they bring up Nick Shirley on these news sites or the Internet or on their TV, they'll say right wing, YouTuber, MAGA, YouTuber, conservative. It's never journalist Nick Shirley, it's right wing. Who? Journalist Nick Shirley, MAGA influencer Nick Shirley.

[B]

Yeah. When I interviewed Hunter Biden, they got. They did a RV. YouTuber was the one they would use for all, like the. Which actually sounds pretty cool. Like I'd want to be that, but I'm not that. And then like a liberal podcaster. Oh, that in the Atlantic said Gen Z influencer.

[A]

So, yeah, it's just like they. They're so mad that we have the opportunity, people like me and you, to upload a video and to get more views than them. Essentially, we're a threat to their entire industry. That's why they hate. That's why they will never give us credit. And so when they see me doing what I'm doing, when they see me get more views, then they will get onto their website for the whole entire year on one single video. Yeah, it's gonna make a lot of people mad. So called evidence comes from a man.

[B]

Who has posted anti Muslim and anti.

[A]

Immigrant content in the past. CNN's Whitney Wilde speaks to the man behind that video and takes a look at his claims.

[B]

We're from CNN.

[A]

Can we talk to you? This is MAGA YouTuber Nick Shirley.

[B]

Yeah, so going back to. We met. So what do you remember about that? That first interaction?

[A]

I had just started making YouTube videos again and I was all by myself. We were going to. You were going to Amfest. So was I. I was going to interview people about what's happening here inside the country. And I thought. I had no idea exactly what I was walking into. I just knew there was going to be a lot of people to interview about what was happening inside the country. I thought it was like called America Fest. So I had no idea what Turning Point was. I had no idea who Charlie Kirk was at that time. It was funny because I'd watched you before on all gas, no breaks, and you're always in that beige suit, just moving around and doing your videos. And so I was like, stoked to. It was great meeting you the first time.

[B]

I remember I first saw you and you were setting up a tripod and I was like, yo, what should I do? And you told me you were like, you should go cover the border. And I told you. I was like, I want to go to Nogales to cover it. And you were like, no, you should go to Lukeville. So you were the one who actually sent me in the right direction to do the.

[A]

Yeah, you actually said, hey, can I get that information? I'd love to do something with you. I sent you the information and ghosted me right after.

[B]

Well, now the whole world's gonna know that there wouldn't have been a border video without my guy Nick right here.

[A]

It's the truth.

[B]

It's the truth. Was that. So you said you had just started making videos in. In 2023, but had you done interviews before that?

[A]

Yeah, So I had actually started. I've been doing YouTube since 2017 as a sophomore in high school. I started just wanting to have fun with my friends, and I started watching YouTubers and I saw kind of like, the lifestyle they lived, and I was like, oh, I'm fun. I. I like to have fun. I'm creative. I can be entertaining. I could do YouTube. Like, a lot of us think when we're in high school, like, how many times, how many discussions have you had with your friends where you're just like, bro, that could be us. You know, most YouTubers wouldn't come in here and capture this because of political stuff. You know what? I don't care.

[B]

We' baby like and subscribe. Let's go back to the young Nick Shirley. Where'd you grow up?

[A]

Yeah. So I was born here in Utah, spending a lot of time with my family, friends, playing football, basketball, soccer, track, you name it. Sports was my entire life when I was younger.

[B]

True American life.

[A]

Yeah, true American life. Going to church, getting decent grades, having fun, hanging out with friends, riding your bike around.

[B]

And you said the church. What kind of church?

[A]

Yeah. So member of the church. Jesus Christ, Latter Day Saints.

[B]

Is that the same thing as Mormons?

[A]

Yeah, but we don't call ourselves Mormons now.

[B]

Because of South Park.

[A]

No, it's just we're not Mormon. We don't follow Mormon. We follow Jesus Christ. So we actually want people to refer to us and know us as members of the Church of Jesus Christ.

[B]

So Joseph Smith is not a prophet?

[A]

No, he's a prophet.

[B]

In addition to Jesus, Jesus is a savior.

[A]

He's also a prophet, but he's also our savior. He's your savior? He's my savior. He's everyone's savior.

[B]

Thank you. So what do you think is the main thing people get wrong about lds?

[A]

We're Christians. We're just people who love God and love Jesus. And, yeah, we do follow higher standards. No drinking, no smoking, no sex before marriage. Go to church on Sunday, Follow the Ten Commandments. Follow the Bible. We follow the Bible.

[B]

One of your earliest videos that you now deleted was about some of those loopholes.

[A]

Oh, yes. About soaking. Have you ever thought about soaking here at byu? No, because there's a lot of misconceptions on that thing that that's. That's not right. Soaking is not right.

[B]

Is it real, though?

[A]

I interviewed people at byu and they might have said it was.

[B]

So you think it counts?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, 100%. 100%. Wow. The rumors are true. Kids here at BYU actually do soak. They soak and they hump, definitely.

[B]

Especially.

[A]

I think that's like, my biggest advantage, that I don't really have many vices. Whether it be pornography, whether it be alcohol, whether it be cigarettes, whether it be vapes, whether it be nicotine. That stuff doesn't tempt me.

[B]

And you feel like living a clean light that way gives you, like, a journalistic superpower that allows laser focus. So you can just become a content machine? No, it's kind of what you're doing.

[A]

Well, that's just who I am.

[B]

But, I mean, I feel like if you drank and partied and stuff, you might not be able to make as many videos.

[A]

Well, if I drank and party, I wouldn't be able to show up to my job at McDonald's.

[B]

You'd probably be able to hold down a McDonald's job if you had.

[A]

But if you're referring to being on time and all that stuff, and I'm.

[B]

Talking about the sheer volume of content you've been able to produce over the.

[A]

Past year, I'm a highly functioning person. Yeah.

[B]

Congratulations.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Aside from the recent stuff, what pieces have you been most proud of since I last saw you at Turning Point usa?

[A]

I'd say my Brazil videos. Those were very awesome. Going to the favelas, that was an experience that I can't even believe. Favelas are real. After going there because I came this close to dying in the bottom of a destroyed house on the top of Rio's biggest favela.

[B]

When you say close to dying, like there was a gun in your face.

[A]

Yes. And if I didn't pay the man, I would have died.

[B]

You think so?

[A]

100%. Oh, whoa, this is heavy. That guy, after I interviewed him, he got beat up by the gang leader and kicked out of the favela for letting me interview him.

[B]

Some other unknown or perhaps known by some Nick Shirley lore is that you've met deceased rapper YBC Duel.

[A]

Yes, I did meet him. It was Brian Buckingham. Yeah. I had no idea who he was.

[B]

Special guest right here.

[A]

Oh, we got a special guest. Still talk to him.

[B]

This is Nick Shirley from Salt Lake City, Utah. The Latter Day Saints. The. The Mormons. You ever heard of the Mormons? This is the first Mormon, the first Church of Latter Day Saint member ever to be out here in Philly like this.

[A]

Just like that. Just like that. Look at his sneaks, though.

[B]

Yeah. So that was an equally, I would say. Or similarly dangerous.

[A]

Yeah, no, I'd say the America hoods are about just as dangerous as the favelas. For instance, Chicago. You have armed militias walking around Chicago as well. Same within Philly. Think about how many young people are dying because of gang violence. Like I loved your video you did in Baltimore about them kind of combating that and showing that like community really can make a difference and people really need to be looking out for one another because it's not worth dying for.

[B]

So going back to high school, right? So you said that after high school you went on a mission trip, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where to?

[A]

Chile, Santiago.

[B]

Is that where you developed fluent Spanish?

[A]

Yeah, I actually was fluent Spanish when I was younger. When I was here in Utah. When I was growing up, I was in a Spanish margin program from kindergarten to fourth grade. Spoke Spanish fluently. Moved to Washington similar to you. Moved up to Seattle area. I didn't practice my Spanish anymore. I lost it. Decided to go on this mission thing for our church and they sent me to Chile, Santiago and I learned Spanish again.

[B]

What's the purpose of a mission trip?

[A]

Yeah, you're there to go share the gospel, the restored gospel of Jesus Christ and to teach people about Jesus and give them the opportunity to come into Christ. And if they want to follow or if you just want to teach them about Jesus, that's all you're supposed to do.

[B]

At what point did you start to really take political interviewing seriously and why did you dive into that realm?

[A]

Well, I think when I started seeing people get trafficked into the United States from the border and started seeing mass corruption inside the government, I just like couldn't believe that I met somebody at the border. She gives me her WhatsApp and the next day she texts me and she's in New York City. I was like, how is this happening? How are people just being trafficked around the country? How are little kids just coming over here? How's there a 15 year old girl or I think she was 17 year old girl from Dominican Republic all by herself? How are people doing this and how's the government enabling this to happen? I remember going to the border for the first time and I saw migrants coming over the border. I'm like, oh my gosh, what's going on? Like, shouldn't they be running away?

[B]

Wasn't Governor Abbott the one transporting people from the Texas border to New York City?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So you feel like there was mismanagement of the border on a executive Biden level and a state?

[A]

Yeah, and I think like Governor Abbott, that was his way of like saying like F you to the sanctuary cities. And for the Democrats for just accepting and letting this Happen saying, okay, well we're not gonna deal with it. You guys go ahead and deal with it. We'll give him bus ticket to get out of our state or city.

[B]

So you feel like migrants kind of became political pawns for the two parties in America?

[A]

Yeah, well, we all know, like, obviously it was because they wanted to vote, fill the swing states, fill the big cities. We would have seen what was going to happen. But thankfully Trump won.

[B]

How do you think Trump's doing so far this term?

[A]

I think Trump's delivering, especially on crises like the border. I think that's been the major win of this election right now. You're not seeing illegal migrants come into the country. Me and you both did videos at the Lukefield border. We spoke with migrants. That was the most inhumane thing that I think America has seen in years as far as letting people be trafficked into the United States and then bringing them into the system, making them rely on the government, not giving them working visas, putting them inside of shelters, busing them. All around the country, families are separated. Thousands of children went missing. The government was literally trafficking children into the United States, trafficking people, incentivizing them to leave their houses in Colombia, leave their house in, in Ecuador, and then come to the United States. And you're living in a shelter in New York City. So is it true that gangs are inside of the Roosevelt Hotel? This is me confronting a group of Venezuelan migrants who are potentially dangerous. Gang members of the gang Train de Aragua outside of the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City. Most of these migrants, they came here, they thought life would be good and they end up getting put inside the shelter and became essentially slaves to the system in a way where they're relying on the state to give them money, they're relying on the state for housing, they're relying on the state to give them a work permit to be able to work. Like that's not right. That's pretty mean if you ask me.

[B]

Well, I suppose the reason they hopped the border in the first place because the immigration system is so backed up, right?

[A]

Well, yeah, there's major issues with immigration here inside the United States, but you just can't walk into the country and think that you're going to be treated just like a law buying, tax paying citizen.

[B]

Who was filming most of your stuff back then?

[A]

Me, myself and I. And then I also bring my mom with me. She's like a producer on the channel, kind of. So they are coming right now because it is an opportunity for them to come and they are taking that Opportunity and they're coming here. And Nick and I wanted to show because all of America, we just sit home and watch this on our TV and get angry with it. And we wanted to show, like, what is truly happening. We have been there.

[B]

Did she have any kind of career in content creation prior to you guys working together?

[A]

She actually went to school for journalism and to be a broadcaster.

[B]

Did she have a hand in your decision to really, like, start taking things more seriously as far as political coverage?

[A]

No, actually, she actually didn't really believe in, like, anything I thought politically. But as you know, during like 2020, for instance, I couldn't, on my channel, I couldn't put Trump's name in a, in a title or thumbnail without the video being demonetized. And so there was no incentive to actually create political content in that time, especially if you're a smaller creator, because you couldn't get the video to be seen by anybody. And so you couldn't really make those videos. And then when I did get back from that mission, I could then make videos on politics and the censorship kind of got lifted because of Elon Musk buying X. People hate on Elon Musk, but they don't understand, like, what he actually did by buying X. Because of him, you're actually able to post stuff on YouTube and not have to worry about being, being censored or worry about not being able to get the video monetized? Yeah, if you can't get your video monetized, you can't make your videos. And so I, I think what Elon did really did change the, the shape of our society. Because then you also saw other platforms like Rumble, follow Facebook, they lift their, they lifted their censorship. YouTube lifted their censorship. So without Elon Musk, none of that would have been possible.

[B]

Was there a part of you that was wondering why the Trump administration and various allies promoted your expose so hard when they did?

[A]

I think it hit the heart of every American being able to see that their money that they pay for taxes is going to fraud. People like to talk about how our money's going to other countries or how it's being used wrongfully, but people can't actually see it with their eyes. And that was one of the first videos ever where people could see that people were abusing the system and taking dollars from the United States citizens and they're actually not operating a business.

[B]

But I mean, I'm just talking about, if you look at Google trends specifically like the phrase Somali fraud was borderline non existent, it just so happens to really kick up through your piece on December 16th.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is the exact same day that the Trump administration and Kash Patel released the redacted Epstein files list. That by all people was seen as like a disaster with hundreds of pages of blacked out stuff. Was there a part of you that was curious if maybe there was people in the GOP who chose to signal boost your piece as wide and far as possible in a way to distract and move the goalpost away from that?

[A]

I don't know. Like, if that was their. If that was their initiative, it probably worked pretty well. But I just posted my YouTube video, and that's the beautiful thing about the Internet is you just post and see what happens. Every week I've been uploading video. To me that was just going to be like another YouTube upload. Like, I didn't know that it was going to be the most viewed video ever on X. You're trying to say that it was some coordinated attack to get people's eyes away from Epstein, but the majority of the traffic, it has over 600,000. I think it has over 600,000 likes. So it wasn't just Elon Musk who was sharing the video. It was everyday Americans who were showing that video because they're sick. Like, what are they known for?

[B]

Africans?

[A]

No, Somalians. Well, say the thing that's on top.

[B]

Of your head, Captain Phillips.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

But I'm also an American who doesn't know any Somalis. Well, actually I grew up with a few in Seattle, but I'm not like, very in tune with the culture.

[A]

Yeah. And so why is 89% of the fraud happening inside Minnesota by Somalians? Yeah. And why have apartment complexes in locations inside of Minnesota? White people have been pushed out.

[B]

White people?

[A]

Yes. Inside these apartment complexes, you will not find a white person living inside of Cedar Riverside, for instance.

[B]

Where'd they go? They got pushed out, like to low income areas they got pushed out of.

[A]

I don't know where they went, but they're not there. Cedar Riverside was originally housing for the College of Minnesota. There's a bar there called Palmer's Bar. It used to be a staple for Minnesota. However, the Somalians inside of Cedar Riverside made complaints that Palmer's bar was too loud. They literally changed their state flag to be more like the Somalian state flag flag in Minnesota. Tim Waltz said their other flag was racist. And he called people like me white supremacist for talking out against the fraud that's happening inside of his state. He's been talking about fraud since 2019.

[B]

How do you feel about the way the, I guess, liberal side of the mainstream media has characterized the reporting?

[A]

They're defending fraud. I'm showing people what's happening. I showed it exactly how it is as it is, and then now they're defending fraud. Even if one of these businesses is operating, why should any American be happy or be satisfied with daycares ran by all Somalians receiving millions of dollars? And out of the population of Minnesota, I believe it's around 5.8 million. You have not seen one single Minnesotan say that their child was inside those daycares?

[B]

I've seen a couple interviews with people who are saying their child was in the daycare.

[A]

Who are they, Somalis? Yes. Why isn't any other white people, black people, Mexicans, Asians? Why aren't they saying, oh, these aren't fraudulent daycares?

[B]

Wasn't it a predominantly Somali area?

[A]

Why are all the daycares inside of Minneapolis? There's white people, there's Mexicans, there's Asians, there's everybody inside Minnesota in Minneapolis. How come no other person has said, no, this daycare is legit. Here's my child. I don't support our money going overseas to Israel either. I don't support our money funding Ukraine. But what I can actually see with my own eyes is the money coming here inside the United States, that's being spent fraudulently. People don't understand that.

[B]

What do you think's the biggest thing you risk doing this type of work?

[A]

People have doxed me. There's death threats. I have 24. 7 security right now because of how crazy people are mad at me for exposing fraud.

[B]

What are some of these death threats? Like, what do they say?

[A]

One person sent me a photo. You can grab it from my ex and put it on the screen. He said, this is going to be you on April 27th on the side of a highway. And it was a photo of a man with his head decapitated in a trench. Another person openly said, tick tock, tick tock, Nick. Surely time's coming. Why are Democrats calling me a white supremacist for talking against fraud? I have 24. 7 security with me right now because people think me exposing fraud is bad.

[B]

And was that something that has kind of, like, deepened your perception of the left as being, like, super crazy and messed up?

[A]

Yeah, I just think everything they say, they say they're the party of peace, party of acceptance. Meanwhile, they call people like me fascists and Nazis. Yeah, they call me a fascist. Meanwhile, they won't let Me speak. One lady, she came up to me, she took her shirt off, started jumping all over me, and she said, say black lives matter. Say black lives matter. I said, all lives matter. She said, get out of here, white boy. Like, what they're saying does not make sense.

[B]

Black lives matter.

[A]

My life matters, too.

[B]

No, it doesn't. Well, I think it was probably. It hits a little different now than it did back in the middle of.

[A]

2020, but even then, all lives matter. Yeah, that should not be a hot take.

[B]

Yeah. But the conversation was specifically about, like, police brutality in black communities.

[A]

Okay, cool. All lives matter. Still, I just can't fathom how people can side with people who have gone so far left to the point where they call people like me a fascist or Nazi or they think the take all lives matter is controversial, or they think that when somebody gets deported when they've been here illegally is a controversial take.

[B]

It's going to ccot. How did you end up down there?

[A]

Yeah. So on the topic of immigration, I was doing these videos and I was seeing these cartels come, these caravans come through. I was like, well, I'm going to join one of the car. I'm going to join a caravan. Like, I'm going to join in their journey. So I was looking at the map and I thought El Salvador would be like a perfect section point to go join a caravan. Yeah, it's kind of crazy idea to go join a caravan.

[B]

That's a sick idea.

[A]

At that point in time, I wanted to see what's happening with the immigration. And so I thought, okay, I'm going to go to El Salvador, I'm going to go speak to people. I'm going to find a caravan, and I'm going to go from El Salvador to Mexico and make it all the way to the United States. I get to El Salvador and they're like, no, we don't have any migrants here. We just actually put all of our gangs in the prison. Like, we're thriving. I had to change my plan to make. Make a video about how one country actually solved migration to the point where they're actually having people come back to their country versus leaving.

[B]

And you finally got up in there.

[A]

Yeah, I'm still the only American to ever go in. And you actually asked for the contact, but I couldn't give it to you. Yeah.

[B]

You know what I was thinking about, man, is like, on that note, how do you think I could, like, build more credibility on, like, the more conservative side of the aisle? As far as interviews go?

[A]

Don't Be afraid to say, what are Somalians known for? When you know the answer inside your head, but you're too afraid to say it.

[B]

Well, I just don't know if it's based on a stereotype or if it's.

[A]

You know, what they're known for. You. You said it. Pirates. So you're scared.

[B]

I'm not scared. I just want to get out of here, talk to them.

[A]

You haven't scared.

[B]

I don't want to go out and say things about people if I don't know the community. I go to the restaurants.

[A]

But that guy goes, I asked you the question, what are they known for? And I knew you knew what they.

[B]

Were because Hollywood promoted Captain Phillips. I mean, what are we known for in Somalia? I don't know. Cheeseburgers.

[A]

So why'd you question your thought?

[B]

I'm not that smart.

[A]

So you're asking, how do you gain credibility and trust? Will you say a fact for a fact?

[B]

And the fact is that the first thing I think of when I think.

[A]

The fact is, what are Somalis known for? Pirating.

[B]

Well, that's in Somalia. There's no pirates in America.

[A]

Who's stealing all the money in Minnesota?

[B]

Same as a pirate.

[A]

That is piracy. So how do you gain more trust? Well, don't be afraid to say a fact or opinion, even when you know.

[B]

I know that I'm dumb.

[A]

Yes. Am I not saying anything about the death of Charlie Kirk as well? I thought that was pretty messed up in a way. He's somebody just like me and you who was making videos, putting on the Internet, and then people literally killed him. But I thought that was kind of messed up of you to not publicly denounce what happened to Charlie Kirk. I did. I never saw anything on Instagram.

[B]

What am I supposed to say?

[A]

You never shared anything.

[B]

I interviewed the guy who was debating him while it happened, and I mentioned a bunch of times that it was horrible and it represented, like, one of the worst pivots in American politics ever.

[A]

And I didn't even watch the interview because I didn't want to watch that.

[B]

Well, you should watch it.

[A]

I don't want to. Why?

[B]

It's historically relevant.

[A]

It is historically relevant. I couldn't. I did lose respect for you when you. It felt like you went silent.

[B]

Well, you should watch the video because I say some stuff in it.

[A]

Okay, cool.

[B]

Do you ever see a world in which independent media will overtake corporate, traditional media?

[A]

Well, we still have boomers, and they're still watching tv, so that, like, is a lot their audience. But who, when me and you are 50, 60 years old, do I think that CNN and those companies will be able to operate at the scale that they're operating right now? I think CNN has around, I know they have more than a thousand employees and it took one person to expose $110 million in fraud in Minnesota. And then when he does expose it, they investigate the person who exposed the fraud versus investigating the fraud taking place. Nobody has trust in them. Their trust is at all time low because people like me are able to go and talk to the, to the liberal woman calling me an ICE agent outside the daycare and also talking to the man who's lived there for eight years, who's never seen a child. It's impossible for them to do that.

[B]

So you think once boomers go.

[A]

Yeah, I think once boomers go and once my grandparents aren't here anymore, which.

[B]

We don't want to happen, but it has to happen.

[A]

Well, it's just a part of life that people will die.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But at that point I think mainstream media will not really be a thing.

[B]

So what can we do to avoid the mistakes that mainstream media made in the past? Because at one point they were quite trusted.

[A]

Yeah, at one point they were quite trusted, but actually were they. Do we know that the history books are correct when only the victors write the history? And at that time they didn't have social media to combat the information. At that time.

[B]

I'm just talking about like Walter Cronkite, like when there was like two stations and like, you know, there wasn't such a divisive news media, corporate competition taking place to where people were competing for views by using pundits and having a 24 hour news cycle, like when the written word also meant more as well, there was more faith.

[A]

Well, I can't speak on that because I wasn't living that generation where you had.

[B]

You could even go back. I mean Honestly, the 24 hour news cycle, if you talk to older people like in their 30s and 40s, post 911 was pretty much the first time where cable networks had to keep their airways on all the time. So they started filling slots with not correspondence and not field pieces, but just pundits. So what they would do is they would get somebody, two people who fundamentally disagree and just have them yell at each other for like two hours to drive up engagement and keep people watching. So news kind of became like soap opera. Everything kind of became about engagement, like almost like reality tv. And then gradually trust faded because it became so partisan.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's also a sign of the times that we're seeing distrust and we're seeing the world get a little bit crazier as well.

[B]

So, I mean, what do you think we need to avoid?

[A]

What do we need to avoid? I think we need to call things out for facts. And you shouldn't be afraid to say when I ask you, what are Somalians known for? You're afraid of your viewers watching this video calling you a racist or Islamophobe.

[B]

No, to clarify, you knew that word, Andrew.

[A]

You knew you were saying pirate. You knew. You. In your mind.

[B]

You're asking me to think in a stereotypical mind, what do I think comes in your. What's the first. You're asking me what's the first stereotype that comes to mind when I think about Somalia?

[A]

I said, what are they known for?

[B]

They are known by Americans who don't know Somalis.

[A]

What are they known across the west for?

[B]

The west is very much indoctrinated by Hollywood. I'm just saying I want to wait to answer that before I actually have engaged with the community on a level to where I can actually say, like, they're known for this type of thing.

[A]

They're committing 89% of the fraud in Minnesota.

[B]

That wasn't the question you asked me. Hey, what are Somali? No, and of course, my. I'm thinking of the movie because.

[A]

So.

[B]

But it's a Tom Hanks Hollywood blockbuster.

[A]

Yeah, but it's a fact that they're committing some sort of piracy in Minnesota. 89% of the fraud is committed by Somalis. And that's a fact. When we're, when we talk about building trust in the future of media, we need to be able to say things for what they are. If Tim Waltz goes on TV and calls people like me a white supremacist, it's my responsibility to call Tim Waltz. He's enabled this to happen because he's afraid to be called a racist or. And Islamophobe. Meanwhile, our generation can't even buy a home. Meanwhile, people are stealing millions of dollars. And he's afraid to say that because he's too afraid of being called a racist or Islamophobe.

[B]

I think the one main issue that I feel like unites the left and the right, at least in a certain income bracket in the US would be affordability.

[A]

Yes, 100%.

[B]

That's probably the main issue that we're talking about deep down. I think that the main difference here is diagnosing how we can get to that point, you know, because when you're talking about your issue with fraud. You mentioned health care being expensive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we're all talking about the same thing here. It's just, I think the main difference is how are we going to get there?

[A]

And then when we have someone like Elon Musk, the smartest man in the world, who offers his help to get rid of fraud here in the United States, that could potentially cut down prices for health care, that could potentially help cut down the prices for homes, that could potentially give people better wages, and then they go and attack him.

[B]

Well, I think one of the biggest problems is also the private sector controls so many of these things, like medicine and also real estate. Like, it's not like home prices are going to get knocked down because the government has more money.

[A]

It might be able to help people not have to pay so much in taxes. It might help people to be able to take their dollar to buy the next thing. $120 billion in 2024 going towards fraudulent activity here in the United States. And then we go and attack that person who's trying to combat that.

[B]

Well, I guess one of the fundamental questions, too, that I mentioned early on in the interview is like, do you trust the government to handle a surplus in tax revenue if fraud is eliminated?

[A]

Say that question.

[B]

Like, let's say, like, fraud is totally eliminated and the government has, like, an extra stipend of money that they have that they could technically redistribute to things like making medicine cheaper and helping us pay rent. You think that the government would actually do that? Like, do you think they would genuinely invest in social programs that help change the affordability crisis?

[A]

I think so. And that kind of goes back to having, like, faith that we hope our politicians are and do better and work for us and us not be working for them. Trump's the only president of our lifetime who's actually not even collecting a salary, other than what can. What people will say. He's feeding his ego. Well, he's actually not even taking a salary. He's lost money. He's been attacked. He's been nearly shot and killed twice. He's had, I think, was it two or three assassination attempts? I want to say three. The guy in Pennsylvania, the guy at his golf course, and there's another one. And people want to keep demonizing Trump like he's some sort of devil. He does. He's not even taking a salary. He wants to put tariffs on other countries with the goal of hoping that we can have more money. And actually, with that tariff income, he's Even given military a bonus for Christmas. And people are saying tariffs are bad. Why should we be paying more money than Indonesia for sending stuff into our country?

[B]

It's a good question. So, like, it's also, like, if Trump's cutting all these different social programs and stuff, who's to say that if he had more money, he would reinvest in the people?

[A]

He's not. For instance, when people say he's cutting out funding for food stamps, he's telling people, all right, you're on it for this amount of time, but you need to be showing that you're trying to get off it. Trump is actually incentivizing people to go make a better life for themselves. He's even giving children. He's showing kids how. How to invest money at a younger age through the stock accounts he's created for him. Michael Dell, the owner of Dell, he gave each child, like, I think, $250, so they can see how to invest their money. Right now, you're seeing more people who actually have the power to make a change in America than ever before get involved in the politics, and not because they want to, but because they've been forced to. And. But then you see people come after them for it. I don't know what you're going to title this video.

[B]

Nick Shirley Interview.

[A]

Okay. Sick. Yeah. But I just think there's so many issues in the United States right now, and we can actually go out and comb them. We can combat the immigration crisis. We can say that illegal migrants should not be here. The word is illegal. If you're going to come after me for exposing fraud, something is morally wrong with your brain where you've gotten to the point where you think fraud is good.

[B]

That perspective is probably more like, these people are socioeconomically disadvantaged.

[A]

They're not, though. They're here in America. We all have the same opportunity. They're Somalian Americans.

[B]

Well, there's pretty significant, like, funding and financial disparities between areas in the U.S.

[A]

Well, 81% of Somalians are on welfare.

[B]

The welfare doesn't necessarily necessarily cover everything. It's not. They give you, like, you know, a ridiculous amount of money.

[A]

They have the same opportunity I do when I wake up in the morning to go create the best life I can possibly create for myself. Everybody has the same opportunity. If you're a United States citizen, whether you're black, Mexican, Asian. I mean, look at your crew filming right now. You have a Asian, Japanese man. I don't know who he is. You have a Mexican with a face.

[B]

Tat look, look at that Mexican and all the opportunity he's got. And what about him?

[A]

He's a white American with face tattoos and he's working just with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Though the fact that people think that they don't have the same opportunity or they can't go create a lifestyle they want, I don't believe in that. I've never worked for anybody in my entire life. I have created everything I have. Who knows what I can do in the next 20 years.

[B]

Yeah, same here. I'm 28. So maybe you and I, what's your.

[A]

Plans for the future, Andrew? Man, do you want to make YouTube videos until you're like 60?

[B]

Yeah, I want to make YouTube videos until I'm 85.

[A]

That'd be sick.

[B]

So what do you want to do in the future? What's the long term plan?

[A]

Long term plan would be, I think what you just saw is actually creating change inside of America. A video that actually created change. And so I'd like to continue to making the world a better place, whether it be through cutting off fraud or speaking out against corruption, or helping the old lady next to me.

[B]

And are you ever worried the Matrix will come for you if you continue to accrue power and influence?

[A]

Well, they are like when you say the Matrix, like I think that's like the mainstream media or people. But like who do you think the Matrix is?

[B]

I think it's the C suites of the corporations that own the major news channels.

[A]

Yeah, I mean they can try, but that's why I think it's so important that we have platforms like X. Say the mainstream media hates you. You can still make a business off of people who support you.

[B]

Is there any coverage that you regret at all?

[A]

Yeah, there actually is some coverage I think I've like messed up on or not that I necessarily messed up on, but maybe not have been totally informed, which is hard because when you're making a YouTube video every single week, you just can't be like the expert on every topic. So there was a time when I went to Ukraine and I made a video and I, I was missing. I kind of like geographically I'm from Utah, so all the mountains and stuff, you know, like north, south. And someone gave, when I was in Ukraine, they were, they asked me like, do you want to go to where the first place where Russia invaded, which was a place called Busha. And I didn't know like whether I was north, south, west. And then I, somebody interviewed me after because I had criticized where US tax dollars were going. Somebody interviewed Me, after asking me, did you go to the East? And I said, well, yeah, I went to Busha. I thought that, like, that's where Russia initially invaded. I was one of the main places they invaded before trying to go to Kyiv. So that was like a mistake on my end and I felt. I felt so bad after that. But it was just a mistake that we had made and I just made it publicly. It didn't make me want to do YouTube less. It was just a learning lesson, which is hard for people to have an actual learning lesson publicly.

[B]

Yeah, definitely.

[A]

I'd actually like to ask you a question. What do you think about Trump?

[B]

I don't like him.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, do I think that he is somebody who's going to fundamentally change the structure of the US for the better? I don't think so.

[A]

Do you think just by flooding the country with 20 million people helped us with affordability? It's not a human right to receive citizenship here. If anything, it's an opportunity if you get it and you gotta follow the rules for it.

[B]

I agree with that. Yeah, for sure.

[A]

So I think sympathy towards people who wanna come in here has in a lot of ways destroyed the opportunities for our generation.

[B]

I think if sympathy overpowers your ability to look at a situation objectively, that would be an example of you kind of being hypnotized by the wrong sources of information. But I think you can have sympath.

[A]

For people struggling with life. It's just simple supply and demand. If you have 20 million people who need to come and buy a house or rent an apartment, and you have other people who need it, you're going to raise the prices.

[B]

Landlords have been raising the prices systematically since the 1980s. I mean, the reason you can't buy a house is not because of an immigrant. I mean, they want us to think that because it's an easier scapegoat.

[A]

Well, if you look at the graphs, when you receive all this immigration, the price of homes has gone up, has gone up more than normal.

[B]

I don't think those two things are connected if you look.

[A]

But just based off simple supply and demand, those you can bring in 20 million people. They have to be able to sleep in 20, at least 10 million different locations.

[B]

Yeah, but we have 340 million people. I mean, I'm not. I'm just saying home values rising and rent rising is a result of, like, greedy developers, landlords doing price gouging. So many factors. Like, I'm from Seattle, a city with not that much immigration. Immigration from the border. And since 2013, before all of this stuff like rent had doubled because of Amazon moving their corporate campus downtown, H1B.

[A]

Visas and all that stuff.

[B]

No, I'm saying Amazon as a tech company themselves bulldozed my home neighborhood, built apartments for their workers who are legal and most of them are from the US but from surrounding suburbs. And none of us could afford to live, so we had to all move to other income low income areas around or just build our own way and move into an RV like I did. So I don't think there's a correlation between home values rising and migrants coming.

[A]

I think that'd be very stupid to not be able to come to the conclusion that supply and demand is really prices.

[B]

Landlords raise prices when rich people move in because they go, we got some big bucks in town like in Aspen or somewhere.

[A]

Just a normal sized home that used to cost $200,000 now costs $300,000.

[B]

So you're saying real estate developers see like a bunch of migrants rolling in town, they go, let's jack these prices up. These Venice wells are rolling in cash.

[A]

Then the billionaires are able to come and buy the houses and it causes the rent rent to go up and they're able to charge certain prices. And a migrant can then move in with eight other migrants and they can afford rent versus the one person who has a family with two children can't go and get that house because rent.

[B]

Is going up because the richest people in the country don't care about people like you and I and they're interested in making as much profit as they can and keeping us as poor as possible for as long as they possibly can until regular people can figure out how to get control and get a foothold in the government. I think that they want us to blame migrants because it's easier for them because they don't threaten their power either. So if they can keep us bickering about whether or not this migrant group got here the right way, then nothing will ever change and we're just going to be here forever.

[A]

I would beg to differ, but I do think there is corruption within the billionaire class here inside the United States just on a matter of fact basis that the issue of supply and demand instantly comes into place when you bring in 20 million people.

[B]

If anything, wouldn't they lower the rent?

[A]

No, because then they have more competition and they can raise the prices. I just don't think that immigrants are.

[B]

Increasing the density of New York City.

[A]

When you bring in 10 million people, people, there needs to be 10 million locations, not 10 million. There needs probably 2 million still. That's a lot of infrastructure to be up. That's a lot of billing to take place. They're going to be able to. It's just a supply and demand issue.

[B]

Yeah, I just think we fundamentally disagree on that. Knowing how just greedy developers are in general.

[A]

You know, if people aren't able to afford it, then they get into, they have to get Section 8 and then they get stuck in that system where if you make more than $40,000, you're going to lose your Section 8. And then if you, you make go and do better. Like there's a whole. The lower class is trapped here inside of the United States because of.

[B]

Well, the middle class has been erased by corporatization.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so the small business sector has been gutted since Reagan.

[A]

Yeah. There's a huge issue with affordability and housing and I think we'd be in a better place if we didn't just let in 10 million people through our borders.

[B]

Well, I guess we'll have to see. I hope that you're right because that's what Trump is doing. You know, if the border is closed and in 15 years, everybody my age is just living happily in a three.

[A]

Bedroom family home, prices will continue to go up because they go up over time. But at the rate that they were going up, up was unacceptable and it screwed over me and your generation. Like how are people supposed to be able to buy homes?

[B]

We can't.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But you think closing the border will make it so we can buy a home?

[A]

Well, the effects are already in place. The inflation already went up, the of the houses and the prices have gone up and the wasteful spending has increased as well. And who's profiting? The billionaires and the politicians?

[B]

Well, I think they have a vested interest in making sure the NGOs.

[A]

I don't think so. I think there's all, there's bad billionaires and I think there's good billionaires in this world. And I think a lot of billionaires are trying to make a lot of change here in this world and I think they create a lot, a lot of opportunity. You talk about Amazon. Well, Amazon also employs hundreds of thousands of people here inside the United States.

[B]

Who do you think are the three most benevolent billionaires?

[A]

What do you mean by word benevolent?

[B]

Just well intentioned, positive billionaires who you think are creating, you know, net positive societal progress.

[A]

Trump, our president, I think he's a good one. I think Elon Musk, I think what he's Doing is creating innovation. He provides lots of jobs to people. I think that's a good one. And then the third one, I'd have to think about that. Like, I think David Sacks, he's allowing looking for innovation inside of AI and crypto. I think that's a good thing to be happening. I think, think that all the guys on the all in podcast, I had a conversation with them on their podcast. I think they're looking out for the best of America. And I think a lot of the people are. I, I think a lot of the billionaires are actually trying to make a difference in this world with their money. They have because you don't need a billion dollars. And they, they know that they are able to use their resources. Well, then why create change?

[B]

Why do they virtually get, you know, taxed almost nothing? Well, the basically bottom 99 have to give solid 20, 30 of our income to the state.

[A]

Yeah, it's unfair for us. And, but that's also how businesses are set up. So if you're running a business, Elon Musk, they had to actually add on an extra number inside the IRS so he could pay taxes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So people are mad at him for making money.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I fundamentally hope that everything you're saying is true, just so you know.

[A]

Yeah, I hope so too.

[B]

Yeah, like, it's like, I mean, like.

[A]

I hope we all have the best interest in society and for our people because the affordability is insane and people can't buy houses. And if we're talking about creating change, we need to let innovation prosper inside the United States. And you're not seeing it. We're not seeing innovation. In fact, we're seeing fraudsters take our money in Minneapolis.

[B]

But there's innovation happening elsewhere, right?

[A]

Yes, but there's so many restraints happening. Like, when have you seen an American city? What American city is prospering right now? Now.

[B]

Austin.

[A]

Austin. Name another one.

[B]

El Paso, Texas.

[A]

El Paso, Texas is prospering.

[B]

Yeah. Where Nashville is doing good. Phoenix is doing good. Basically any place with low state tax is getting a lot of.

[A]

In any place that's not Democrat.

[B]

I don't know about that.

[A]

I mean, name a Democrat city that's prospering right now.

[B]

Well, it would have to be one that's affordable.

[A]

Name one.

[B]

Denver.

[A]

Why are you smirking? It's not prospering. Denver's not prospering either. Yeah. So I think what you're seeing is the right is looking to have innovation, looking to succeed, and you're seeing left locations like Democrat ran cities not prospering. In fact, they're going backwards.

[B]

Those are also the most expensive cities and they generate the large majority of the tax revenue for the entire country. The San Francisco Bay area, which is a blue city, probably generates more tax revenue that's used for programs than the entire American south, excluding Atlanta.

[A]

That's a. Yeah. That probably tells you why there's so much corruption, why there's so much bad. Because you use the word programs.

[B]

Not programs, all tax revenues, Highways, you know, basically every single thing that we need taxable subsidies for. So these are economic powerhouses. Like even money made in a blue state still cycles back on a federal level to benefit, you know, everything that we use tax money for. The post office, fire stations, cops and stuff like that.

[A]

You know what I mean? So it's like why are cities, why, why is it, why is California trying to get essentially push out the billionaires by imposing another 5% tax on these people? When billionaires are literally the one who create opportunities and they create jobs for people, yet the people who you support because you say you're left leaning are the ones pushing them out.

[B]

Well, billionaires are choosing to leave because they don't want to pay an extra 5%. Which should kind of tell you what billionaires are about, right?

[A]

Yeah. Because they're not able then play their employees as much I think they'd be able to pay. $1 billion is not a difference of $2 billion to a billionaire billionaire. You can't. If you have a billion dollars that you can buy a 10 million dollar house, you can buy a 20 million dollar house, there's no difference. The thing is, is they're going to face different restrictions inside of a Democrat ran state than they are in a Republican state. That's why they all moved to Texas.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's why now you're Elon Musk. He left, he went to Texas.

[B]

Yeah, they're. I mean they're moving to Texas to save money because they don't want their money to be taken and go to the poor.

[A]

No. And what happens in California? $24 billion went missing. Andrew.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I agree with you that Gavin Newsom in the NGO industrial complex is embezzling the funds. But those to me, I know this is probably gonna sound crazy. I view them as like not necessarily having the best interests of the people in mind.

[A]

Yeah. And those are the people you support.

[B]

I don't vote for California Democrats.

[A]

You're supporting the left. And right now you have the opportunity to support people who are actually trying to create innovation, change the country, you have the opportunity to. So does everyone watching this video. And if you think that deporting an illegal migrant is wrong, the word is illegal. If you think cracking down on fraud is bad, the word is fraud. If you think cracking down on the word corruption wrong, the word's corruption. If you think a girl should be able to play, a boy should be able to play in a female sport, it's a girl or it's a boy playing against girls. What Society benefits have come from the left.

[B]

We haven't had a sizable leftist political party in America in American history. You had Joe Biden, liberals, centrist liberals, defending, defending elite interests. And you had Obama centrist liberal, defending elite interests.

[A]

So who are you going to support? You need to support. Support somebody.

[B]

You're telling me that if you can point me in the right direction of a guy. But I don't see stuff's happening right now.

[A]

People can't afford houses right now. And then you're talking about people moving out of California. You're talking about programs I support. That's the reason why it's so California's most expensive, one of the most expensive states.

[B]

I support voting on a local level especially. I think that's probably the most important thing you can do. So I support voting on a local level for sure.

[A]

And if we want to create change nationally, if you have to support somebody, you have to choose.

[B]

Now we have to choose.

[A]

If you have to choose between the Democrats and Republicans.

[B]

Well, you just said yourself that the corporate media machine is on the verge of collapse. What makes you think the two party electoral system is going to last any longer?

[A]

Quite frankly, it'll be impossible for an independent group at this point in time. I think in 50 years when the boomers are gone, mainstream media will die. But as of right now, they're still going to thrive. And right now in this moment of time, we have to choose who's going to create the most innovation and change and make America a more prosperous country.

[B]

But Trump can't even release the Epstein files.

[A]

He has released them and he did react and that was a total. That's his Achilles heel is this Epstein file thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we can't do anything about that, but what we can do is talk about fraud. We can talk about homelessness. We can talk about all of our money going to like, we can talk about going back to fraud, about 7% of our taxes going to fraud. We can talk about how, how $24 billion went missing for homelessness in California and how they're incentivized to keep people homeless so they can continue receiving money from the state.

[B]

Yeah, that's all true.

[A]

Right. So we can actually do stuff that creates change. We can't tell Trump to go release Epstein files. And it's just because you support Trump doesn't mean you support everything he does. But he's the man in office right now, and you do need to think who's going to be able to create the change and how are we supposed to be able to do it?

[B]

Well, he's in office, so I'm saying now is the chance to prove to people like me and like other people that positive change can happen. And if he does, it's Team Trump.

[A]

I would say he's trying to. But you're seeing what happens when he says he wants to go deport illegal migrants, Leftist judge block his orders. Or when he wants to deploy the National Guard to Chicago to, to make it a safer place. Democrats weaponize it. Like, do you agree that Chicago is a safe place? Would you agree that the west side or the south side of Chicago is a safe place?

[B]

I think that the west side and the south side are not safe places. However, I'm not sure how deploying the National Guard to that particular ice facility out west is going to change the situations in O block or somewhere like that.

[A]

Okay, so taking, take a look at Memphis, for instance. They allowed the National Guard to go in there. Or if you take a Look at Washington D.C. they allowed the wash. They allowed the National Guard to go in there. And crime significantly went down in 2025. Murders are the lowest they've been in years.

[B]

Well, they've been declining steadily since 94.

[A]

It's the lowest they've been.

[B]

One thing I want to push back on, too, is the conservative narrative that America was at its most dangerous point before Trump started cracking down. If you look at a graph, homicides have been trending downward since the mid to late 90s 90s for a long time, we're actually in the safest time. Every single year gets more safe than the last. And of course, there are certain cities like St. Louis, Baltimore, Memphis that will always have some degree of violence. But things are not that bad in the US as far as gun violence goes, they're really getting a lot better. So if things continue, I think that we'll gradually be able to root out the problem.

[A]

If you look at the graph, it's an exponential drop in violent in. In violence here in the United States.

[B]

I wouldn't say exponential.

[A]

I mean, I think it's a pretty.

[B]

Large video we did about Baltimore that they were able to cut homicides in half. And Trump didn't send anybody there. They did it all, you know, inside the community.

[A]

Yeah, it's amazing. Cheers for Baltimore for doing that. Maybe if places in Chicago took that same initiative, it would happen, but they're not. So therefore we have to trust the people in office who have the power to actually go make a change and to send a National Guard and to actually use them to make that place a safer place.

[B]

So what would they do in a place like South Chicago where you have like 50 blocks with that are in food deserts with no health care.

[A]

If you had a National Guard man patrolling the streets, do you think young gangsters would feel emboldened to go and steal from the gas station? Yeah, like we have the military, we have them, we have law enforcement, we have laws. It wasn't. People haven't always been walking around in sheisties and shooting people. They've always even shot people.

[B]

The Shiesty's came from Pooh Shiesty who by the way is free now and he's back in Memphis. So the homicides might be going up.

[A]

They're actually going down because the National Guard was there in Memphis.

[B]

Well, I heard a song and he said the war is back on whatever. But that's probably not reflective of the data.

[A]

So like everything, everything we're talking about, like we're. They're trying to make a difference here in the United States and we should also be trying to create change with our platforms and with our journalism. What I just did is I exposed fraud and within two, I think it was the second, next day they freeze funding for child care in Minnesota. Intellibus can prove their legitimate legit. All they have to do is prove they're legit. But no business has been able to send them proof of legitimacy inside of Minnesota. What does that tell you?

[B]

But you mentioned the, the ABC Learning center in particular. Yes, and I mentioned that they, they did. I'm not sure if this is real or not, but they did release footage of kids entering and exiting the building during operating hours on the same day that you guys were there.

[A]

And their capacity is for 40 children. In that video there was 12 children. And that place receives a million dollars.

[B]

But you do admit there was kids.

[A]

Yes, and I don't doubt that there are kids inside of some of these daycares. It'd be very stupid of a business to be receiving millions of dollars and not to show face with a few kids. It'd be very stupid do you see.

[B]

Also how some people could say that you pull up with a couple dudes in cameras and they would get suspicious and not want to let you guys inside.

[A]

I can understand that, but they should be able to say, and when I ask a question, question, how do I enroll my son, little Joe into daycare?

[B]

Well, there's not, probably not that big kids named Joey in Minneapolis.

[A]

Okay, so then why is only it for Joey? Why is it only for Somalians inside these daycares? Where's the white little kids inside these daycares?

[B]

Maybe they don't go to like federally funded daycares. They get probably taken by their white parents to.

[A]

So who are we? Who's being robbed?

[B]

I suppose in this premise the taxpayer.

[A]

Yes, the hard working taxpayer. While Somalians are taking in committing 89% of the fraud in Minnesota.

[B]

Have you ever personally been defrauded?

[A]

I have.

[B]

What happened?

[A]

I gave a man of money thinking that he was going to give me back on a loan and he never did.

[B]

Did you try to pursue any judicial means to get accountability for that in.

[A]

The process right now?

[B]

Wow, that would be a crazy full circle moment. Don't you see this as potentially being a story that really evolves into a probe of the Democratic establishment in Minnesota and how they're kind of sloppily just allocating all these different federal and state funds as opposed to specifically highlighting the Somali community? Or do you see it as both?

[A]

89% of the fraud is being committed by Somalians.

[B]

Where exactly is that statistic from?

[A]

You can pull it up on the screen, you'll find it.

[B]

I just want to know where it's from.

[A]

You want me to find it right now?

[B]

For sure. Just so I can. I don't know. I believe you. I just want to make sure we have the exact.

[A]

Here. Right here? Yeah. And it's not racist to say it. And when I go to the daycares, there's not a single white person running any of these daycares. Not a single white woman opened up the door. A lot of them could barely even speak English yet. Then you also have another issue with it is these people are Muslim. Muslims have four wives. And inside of these daycares, who's all working inside the daycare? Woman.

[B]

As far as the wives go, that's not a thing in ut.

[A]

Utah. It's not a thing in Utah.

[B]

That's a negative stereotype.

[A]

Negative stereotype. How many wives would you like to have? As many as God will give you. I grew up with two mothers and I absolutely loved it the general population, 99 of the population in Utah do not. That's why. Also going back to the point of being called why we don't call ourselves Mormons, because you can misconceptualize that with groups that left the original Church of Jesus Christ.

[B]

Well, I would argue that less than 1% of Muslims in America have Mormon than a single wife.

[A]

I don't know. Their religion allows them to have it, maybe if they are good for them. But that is a thing that they are able to have four wives. It's in their religion and it's not against the law.

[B]

I'm just saying, when's the last time you seen a Muslim guy with just four wives?

[A]

Well, they don't. They treat their woman differently. You'll never see a man, you'll never see a Muslim man praying side by side with his wife. They're treated differently.

[B]

So you feel like there's societal and cultural differences that make people from Islamic societies incompatible with the U.S. i think.

[A]

If you ask a Muslim man, if we were to go to war with a country in the Middle east, ask them who they would support, that will tell you everything you need to know.

[B]

I'm on it.

[A]

Yeah. And so. And with the DareCare fraud, with the daycare fraud, there's legit videos. You can find them, these daycare owners then going and giving that. Giving the woman in cash. And that's why you also have 81% living on welfare, because a lot of the women don't have to claim the money that they just received from working from these daycares. It's a whole entire corporation. You have daycares, you have home healthcares, you have adult daycares, you have transportation companies, you have translators that take these people to the hospital. And they're all working for that same group. And they're all receiving millions of dollars. Yeah.

[B]

The ngo, the NGO Iceberg is pretty crazy.

[A]

And so why would you be actually doing paperwork correctly, are giving women, these women paperwork if, you know, if you don't pay them on paper, you can just give them cash.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they can go and claim welfare and get food stamps and then claim housing and get free housing. Why would you do that? It's obviously it's fraud, but it's screwing over Americans.

[B]

Well, it's time to stop getting screwed.

[A]

I 100% agreeing. So we have the opportunity to make the change and we have to do.

[B]

It or else we're gonna keep getting screwed.

[A]

We're gonna keep getting screwed.

[B]

And, you know, I think that's the Nick Shirley, Andrew Callahan. Message is, whoever you are, stop screwing us.

[A]

Yes. All right, bro.

[B]

Appreciate your time. Channel 5 live worldwide, Hollywood and Vine.

[A]

The authority.

[B]

Channel 5 news, channel 55. We don't with custers and 5 is the best number.