Rachel Goldberg-Polin’s extended interview

Summary

60 Minutes: Extended Interview with Rachel Goldberg-Polin

Original Air Date: April 20, 2026
Podcast: 60 Minutes – CBS News

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Overview:

This moving episode features an extended, in-depth interview with Rachel Goldberg-Polin, whose son Hersh was taken hostage and later killed by Hamas after the October 7, 2023 attack near the Gaza border. Interviewed in Jerusalem following the publication of her book When We See You Again, Goldberg-Polin reflects on the ordeal of losing Hersh, her advocacy for hostages, and the aftermath of grief, hope, and human resilience. The conversation is intimate, philosophical, and honest, offering rare insights into individual trauma amid a major news event.

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Key Sections & Discussion Points

1. Remembering Hersh

[01:47 - 05:08]

• Description of Hersh:
  Goldberg-Polin remembers her son as “easy, easy,” and says, “The universe really knew what it was doing when it said, Rachel’s gonna have one son, so this is the one for her.” (Rachel Goldberg, 01:51)

• Final Night Together:
  The family spent Shabbat together the night before the attack. Rachel describes the family ritual of blessing their children:
  “Every Friday night of his life, even when he wasn’t home... we would call and say, put the phone on your head. Put the phone on your head. And we would give him the blessing before Shabbat would start.” (Rachel Goldberg, 03:31)

• Hersh’s Plans:
  Hersh was preparing to take a year-long trip around the world after a trial run in Europe. His final words to his mother were, “I love you. I’ll see you tomorrow. And that was 900 and something days ago. And I never saw him again.” (Rachel Goldberg, 04:22)

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2. The Attack and Hersh’s Abduction

[06:42 - 10:08]

• October 7th, 2023:
  Hersh and his best friend Aner were at the Nova Music Festival when the Hamas attack began. Hersh sent Rachel two messages at 8:11 a.m.: “I love you,” and “I’m sorry.” Rachel shares, “Everything that had ever happened in my life from the day I was born until that second was over.” (Rachel Goldberg, 07:03)

• Bomb Shelter Heroism:
  Aner tried to protect others in a crowded shelter. Rachel recounts survivor testimony and the brutality of the attack, including Hersh’s injury: “Yes, he picked up a grenade. And we know from survivors that the grenade went off in his hand and blew off his hand.” (Rachel Goldberg, 08:34)

• Realization of Hersh’s Kidnapping:
  After confirmation via video, Rachel and John found a strange comfort in knowing Hersh had been taken alive: “When we had the proof that he was kidnapped, that was actually good.” (Rachel Goldberg, 09:46)

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3. Hope and Survival During Captivity

[10:08 - 14:42]

• Mantras and Morning Prayers:
  Goldberg-Polin relied on mantras for survival: “I love you. Stay strong, survive.” (Rachel Goldberg, 10:16)
  Her prayer every morning was, “I am grateful to you, creator of the universe, for returning my soul to me. You have tremendous faith in me…” (Rachel Goldberg, 10:54)

• “Hope is Mandatory”:
  “Hope is mandatory for you in order to be able to get through the day. …Otherwise, I would probably lie on the floor in a ball.” (Rachel Goldberg, 11:22 – 11:30)

• Describing the Pain:
  Rachel likens her experience to being “hit with a semi truck, an 18 wheeler, but one that not only crushes you and flattens you and breaks all your bones, but also then parks on top of you.” (Rachel Goldberg, 12:48)
  She emphasizes the importance of not accepting torture: “I never want to accept that this is happening.” (Rachel Goldberg, 12:55)

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4. Advocacy and Media

[13:23 - 16:12]

• Becoming an Advocate Overnight:
  She was thrust suddenly into advocacy, meeting leaders across the globe in the hope of saving hostages.

• Tape as a Marker of Days:
  Rachel wore tape every day with the number of days since Hersh was taken, both as a form of accountability and identity: “It was holding people accountable. ...They would say, oh, wow, it’s day 113. I saw you last on day 66.” (Rachel Goldberg, 15:15)

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5. Receiving News, Proof of Life, and Loss

[16:12 - 24:37]

• Videos from Captivity:
  In April 2024, Rachel received a video of Hersh, which was “excruciating” to watch: “He was clearly suffering. And we didn’t share that video with anyone.” (Rachel Goldberg, 16:28; 17:49)

• Screaming Across the Border:
  On day 328, families were invited to the Gaza border to scream messages to the hostages. Rachel wonders if Hersh heard her blessing that day, the day he was killed. (Rachel Goldberg, 18:39)

• Receiving the News:
  A vivid, haunting account of being visited by the “messengers of death” with the news of Hersh’s murder:
  “I was completely broken. Meaning I didn’t cry, I didn’t scream. I was broken.” (Rachel Goldberg, 21:55)

• Funeral and Shiva:
  Thousands lined the streets with signs saying “Sorry.” Rachel recalls saying at the funeral, “finally, finally. Finally, you’re free.” (Rachel Goldberg, 23:19)

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6. Enduring Grief and Seeking Meaning

[24:43 - 31:14]

• Will it ever be okay?
  “What the heck? Like, kick a girl when she’s down? …And now I understand they were trying to warn me… But that is the truth.” (Rachel Goldberg & Interviewer, 24:36–24:39)

• Meeting Or Levi (a fellow hostage released):
  On day 496, the family met Or, who had spent days in captivity with Hersh—she calls him “light” in their darkness. “He shine this bright light of or into our lives.” (Rachel Goldberg, 26:18; 26:54)

• Hersh’s “Why”:
  Or shared that Hersh repeated Viktor Frankl’s idea: “When you have a why, you can bear any.” (Rachel Goldberg, 29:14; 29:33)
  She is now “trying so hard to do now is to figure out what is my why.” (Rachel Goldberg, 30:02)

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7. Continuing Advocacy and Hersh’s Story

[31:14 - 34:00]

• Advocating for Others:
  Rachel and John continued working for the release of other hostages: “When you’ve gone through something so brutally painful, you don’t want anyone else to go through it.” (Rachel Goldberg, 31:14)

• How Hersh Was Killed:
  “They were all executed at close range in a tunnel under Rafah… Hirsch had six bullet wounds.” (Rachel Goldberg, 31:43)

• Knowing Hersh Knew His Parents Were Fighting for Him:
  Or Levi told them: “He told me that my mother spoke to the Secretary of State in the US… and it was like all of a sudden, thank God, first of all, that he heard my voice and that he knew we are nobodies. …But we tried so hard, and he knew, and that was really comforting.” (Rachel Goldberg, 33:09)

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8. The Shape of Grief and Love

[34:00 - 41:31]

• “The pain is chronic, ever present, constant, gnawing, circular, not linear.”
  “I think my understanding of grief has changed… maybe grief is actually just this precious badge of love...” (Rachel Goldberg, 34:18; 34:28)

• Continuing Relationships after Death:
  Rachel learns new stories about Hersh posthumously, such as his compassion when a friend came out to him. “It’s nothing, but it’s everything because it’s a new way of meeting Hirsch.” (Rachel Goldberg, 36:11)

• Part of Herself Buried:
  “It was very clear to me that I was bearing part of myself.” (Rachel Goldberg, 37:07)

• Holding Many Truths:
  “Humans are jugglers and we can juggle… while I’m having this very real experience of outrageously painful confusion and loss, I’m also filled with pride and feel blessed.” (Rachel Goldberg, 37:22)

• How to Keep Loving Without Being Destroyed:
  “I hope I can teach myself how to miss someone forever and love someone forever in a way that doesn’t run me over each day anew.” (Rachel Goldberg, 41:34)

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9. The Aftermath—Memory, Legacy, and Questions

[43:20 - 49:02]

• Takes Down the Tape:
  When the last hostage was returned, the family removed their daily tape ticks, a “symbol of failure, what we were fighting for did happen… not as we wanted.” (Rachel Goldberg, 43:41; 48:19)

• Guilt and Limits of Advocacy:
  “You did more than anybody could possibly do.”
  “It’s true. And sometimes 100% is not enough.” (Rachel Goldberg, 48:42)

• Hersh’s Room Preserved:
  The room remains a “room of a young person about to embark on their life.”
  “I don’t need to come in this room to find Hirsch. …I feel Hirsch everywhere, all the time.” (Rachel Goldberg, 49:02)

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10. Hersh’s Words—A Final Reflection

[50:07 - 52:27]

• Hersh’s Journal, Age 14—Tunnel as Metaphor:
  Hersh wrote about “tunnels” as unknowns in life, foretelling his own fate.
  Key excerpt:
  “Life is like the world. In order to exist, you have to move and work hard. Every so often, you arrive at a tunnel and you enter the unknown… it is not the exit or the end. …But whatever comes my way. It won’t stop me. …What I am sure is that I am walking to the end of the tunnel.” (Hersh Goldberg-Polin, 2015 Journal, 50:14)

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11. Faith and Facing the Unanswerable

[45:46 - 47:46]

• Faith through Catastrophe:
  “The second that they came to tell us that Hirsch was killed is the closest I’ve ever felt to God in my life… it’s not even faith or belief, because it’s more than that. It’s knowing.” (Rachel Goldberg, 45:49)

• Embracing Not Knowing:
  Rachel concludes, “The first step in really being wise is knowing you’re probably never going to figure most things out. And the older you get, the less you should know.” (Rachel Goldberg, 47:46)

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Notable Quotes

• On hope and survival:
  “Hope is mandatory.” (Rachel Goldberg, 11:22)
• On advocacy:
  “We were all running like crazed maniacs. All of us…” (Rachel Goldberg, 13:33)
• On loss:
  “The pain is chronic, ever-present, constant, gnawing, circular, not linear.” (Rachel Goldberg, 34:00)
• On grief:
  “Maybe grief is actually just this precious badge of love that you wear because someone has died and your love is continuing to grow.” (Rachel Goldberg, 34:28)
• On living after loss:
  “I have to come up with, like, really crafty, innovative ways of making it through.” (Rachel Goldberg, 39:11)
• On understanding:
  “The first step in really being wise is knowing you’re probably never going to figure most things out. And the older you get, the less you should know.” (Rachel Goldberg, 47:46)
• From Hersh’s journal:
  “Every so often, you arrive at a tunnel and you enter the unknown. …It is not the exit or the end… What I am sure is that I am walking to the end of the tunnel.” (Hersh Goldberg-Polin, 50:14)

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Memorable Moments

• Rachel’s tender description of her final blessing and last glimpse of Hersh on Shabbat [03:31–04:22]
• The act of shouting across the border to her son, possibly heard on the day of his death [18:39–20:04]
• The weight and symbolism of daily tape, marking each day since the abduction [15:15; 43:41]
• Hersh’s words from age 14, unexpectedly prophetic and poignant [50:14–52:27]

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Closing Thoughts

This conversation is a testament to a mother’s love, inconceivable loss, and the indestructible drive for hope and justice. Rachel Goldberg-Polin’s insights into pain, advocacy, community, faith, and grief are searingly honest. The episode leaves listeners with not only a portrait of private heartbreak but also universal lessons about navigating “the tunnels” we all face.

Transcript

[Rachel Goldberg]

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[Rachel Goldberg]

60 minutes overtime

[60 Minutes Correspondent]

Rachel Goldberg, Poland is an American Israeli living in Jerusalem whose life was forever changed on October 7, 2023 when her only son Hersh was taken hostage by Hamas. Rachel and her husband John worked tirelessly to bring Hirsch and the other hostages home. Crossing the globe, meeting with world leaders, they did everything they could to get their son back. After 328 days in captivity, however, Hersh was executed by Hamas in a tunnel in Gaza. I spoke with Rachel in February about Hirsch, the pain of losing her son, and what she's learned from her grief. This is an extended version of that 60 Minutes conversation.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

What was Hirsch like?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Easy, easy. The universe really knew what it was doing when it said, Rachel's gonna have one son, so this is the one for her.

[60 Minutes Correspondent]

I was really blessed when we met Rachel in Jerusalem. She'd recently finished writing a book called when we see you again, which comes out this week.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You write in the book that Hirsch was on the brink of budding, becoming and blooming. He was on the cusp of adulthood.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yeah, I had found a note that he had written to us right before the Yom Kippur holiday came in in 2023. He wrote to John and me, that's the day of atonement. That's the one day a Year when Jewish people kind of try to do real introspection and self reflection and think about maybe I have not exactly hit the mark where I wanted to. And he wrote us this really beautiful short message and he was saying, I'm about to become my own adult and thank you for, you know, being with me on this ride.

[60 Minutes Correspondent]

Basically, he had a real drive, even

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

at a young age, of wanting to be independent.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yeah.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You were all together the night before the attack?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yeah, thankfully, October 6th. Yes. It was a Friday night and we walked to synagogue together, John Hirsch and my two daughters.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Shabbat is the weekly day of rest in the Jewish faith and you all gather together. You actually gave him a traditional blessing that night?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yes. Every Friday night in many Jewish households, parents bless their children. And since Hirsch had been born, every Friday night of his life, even when he wasn't home, if he was away for whatever reason, we would call and say, put the phone on your head. And we still do this to our girls. Put the phone on your head. And we would give him the blessing before Shabbat would start.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

And in person, you put your hands on his head?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yes, put both hands on his head. So we both were able to bless him Friday night. And then we had this beautiful meal with good friends and Hirsch was regaling everyone about these fun adventures he had just come back from. He had been in Europe on his mini prep trip for nine weeks.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

He was going to be taking a year long adventure around the world starting December 27th.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Right. In the summer of 2023. He thought, let me go and see what it's like for, you know, a chunk as a practice run. And he had just come back and so he was telling us all these fabulous stories. And then right around 11 o', clock, he leaned forward, he came up behind me and he kissed me right here. And he kissed John and he hugged our hostess. And I thought, what a good boy. And he turned around in the doorway and he said, I love you. I'll see you tomorrow. And that was 900 and something days ago. And I never saw him again.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

That was the end of the.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Before it was, and I didn't know. And then we were on this odyssey for 330 days straight, 18 to 20 hours a day of trying desperately to save him and the other hostages. And what's so complex for me about that time is that it was so torturous and very difficult to describe what it feels like to know that your child is being tortured, tormented, starved, abused, is maimed. And that's an excruciating form of suffering. And then what's so fascinating to me is that when they came to tell us that Hirsch had been executed, then I realized that those 330 days had been the good part because he was alive. And now I'm in this place, and this is the rest of my life. How do I walk through this place without a piece of me here?

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Have you figured that out yet?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I'm trying to re understand what it means to be in this world. There are millions of us right now who have buried children. There's nothing unique about me, but it creates light for me to try to give words to the pain.

[60 Minutes Correspondent]

Hirsch and his best friend, Aner Shapira, were at the Nova Music Festival near the Gaza border on the morning of October 7th when Hamas terrorists attacked. They slaughtered 378 people and wounded hundreds more.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

What do you remember about the morning, October 7th?

[Rachel Goldberg]

The siren started and I went and turned on my phone and at 8:11, two messages had come in from her. The first one said, I love you, and the second one said, I'm sorry. And that was it. Everything that had ever happened in my life from the day I was born until that second was over.

[60 Minutes Correspondent]

Hersh sent those texts from inside this bomb shelter crammed with more than two dozen people. That's Hirsch against the wall and on

[Rachel Goldberg]

air near the entrance, 29 of them were hiding in this 5 foot by 8 foot shelter that Hamas came to the doorway and was throwing in hand grenades on air, was picking them up and throwing them out, picking them up and throwing them heroically. And he said to them, if something happens to me, you keep doing this, keep your eyes open.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Honor kind of took control in the bomb shelter and announced himself, said, this is what I'm going to do. If I die, you do this as well.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yes. Hamas came to the doorway and was just spraying the room with machine gun fire and had thrown in additional hand grenades. What we heard is there was screaming, there was blood, there was dying. There were some survivors who were luckily able to hide underneath the dead bodies and pretend to be dead because they were covered with gore and blood and horrific things.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Was Hirsch's hand blown off by a grenade?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yes, he picked up a grenade. And we know from survivors that the grenade went off in his hand and blew off his hand. There were four young men who were not able to hide underbodies. They were all wounded, and they were taken outside and put on a pickup truck and driven into Gaza. And that footage we saw for the first time when we talked with you,

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

we spoke on October 16th. And you and John, our son, by

[Rachel Goldberg]

all accounts of the witnesses, had his left arm blown off.

[60 Minutes Correspondent]

When John said that, I realized I'd seen their son being kidnapped four days earlier at the Nova festival site. Israeli soldiers showed me this gruesome video recovered from a terrorist cell phone. That's Hersh, with the bones sticking out of his left forearm being forced into a pickup truck.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Since we got off, I said, I need to call you. But I still, To this day, I am sorry that that is how you found out that I was the one to tell you that there's this video.

[Rachel Goldberg]

But we were so thankful, and it made us know that he was taken alive, that he walked on his own two feet. And we also were really grateful that you did it in such a human way in this sideways world. When we had the proof that he was kidnapped, that was actually good.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

There was a thought which ran through your mind, you write that you would repeat over and over and over throughout the days, a kind of a message to Hirsch.

[Rachel Goldberg]

I was always saying, I love you. Stay strong, survive. I love you. Stay strong, survive. I love you. Stay strong, survive.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Was it a command to you as well?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yes, because there were times when I would just get seized with emotional and psychological and physical pain, and I would keel over onto John, and I would just say, how much longer? How much longer? How much longer?

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You would say a prayer every morning for a long time when you woke up, and you had a kind of a mantra that you would say. What was it?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Well, the prayer that I have said for many, many years, and I still say, I am grateful to you, creator of the universe, for returning my soul to me. You have tremendous faith in me, which I've always loved, because I like the idea that God has faith in us instead of us having faith in God. So I would say that when I woke up, and then I would say when Hirsch was still alive, then I would say, hope is mandatory.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Hope is mandatory.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Hope is mandatory.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Hope is mandatory for you in order to be able to get through the day and do what you had to do.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Because otherwise, I would probably lie on the floor in a ball. You know, it was so traumatic. It was the most. Confusing, violent torture that I understand why so many of the families who had loved ones kidnapped couldn't get out of bed, couldn't leave their room, couldn't leave their house. There were plenty in the street. There were plenty doing advocacy, but there were plenty who couldn't function, because everyone responds to pain differently. And this kind of cosmic, mental, psychological, spiritual pain was so enormous. And so I just said, hope is mandatory. And then I would fling the blanket back and propel myself into the day.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You likened it to being hit with a semi truck, an 18 wheeler, but one that not only crushes you and flattens you and breaks all your bones, but also then parks on top of you.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Right. So you're rendered paralyzed. There's no movement.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

And that's how you felt all that day?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yes. The idea that someone would steal my child, blow off his arm and keep him in a deep, dark tunnel, starving him and torturing him, there's no way to try to digest that, because you shouldn't digest that. And that was so much of our advocacy was, this is not acceptable. I never want to accept that this is happening.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

How did you know how to navigate this? How did you know where to go, who to speak to, how to speak at the un?

[Rachel Goldberg]

None of us knew anything. We were all running like crazed maniacs. All of us, every single parent, spouse, child, grandchild, grandparent, best friend, boyfriend, girlfriend. Everyone was just. We were running like mad in whatever way felt that we should be doing in that moment. I mean, we were just trying to speak to anyone at all who had power or influence, who could help us. And it was obvious that there were people who could do stuff, and for whatever reason, they were not doing it.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

I mean, you had not been in many of these rooms before. You had not been meeting with the president of Here and There and the ambassador to Here and There and this secretary of Whatever. Do you feel they let you down?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I do, but I also think that we regular people let ourselves down. I think I let Hirsch down.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You feel you did?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I didn't get him home outside of that bag. And I think that John and I talk a lot about how we kept on trying to stress the urgency. This is urgent. And we could not convince the right people that it was urgent.

[60 Minutes Correspondent]

Every day she wore a piece of tape on it. She'd written the number of days since Hirsch and the other 250 hostages were taken.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You decided to start putting the numbers on you. Why?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Well, we were doing a lot of media. We were doing between. I think it was like 15 to 20 interviews a day because we happen to have spoken English. So we were able to do a lot of international media. And the interviews or conversations would always start with them saying, how long has it been since you've seen your son or since you've spoken to your son? It started to feel actually aggressive. They weren't being aggressive, but I was so raw and Tender and in so much pain that I found it insulting that they were asking me that. So I thought, this is going to become my identity. I'm going to change my name every day. And I also felt that, for me, it was holding people accountable. And it made an impression because I remember going to see many different people all over the world, and they would say, oh, wow, it's day 113. I saw you last on day 66.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

There were times along the way where you would get proof of life. You. You would get a word that it had been confirmed that Hirsch had been alive at a certain point.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Right.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

When did you actually see him? In a video.

[Rachel Goldberg]

So Passover in April of 2024. We had. That was excruciating. Going to a Passover Seder. Passover is the holiday that celebrates the freedom from slavery, the freedom from being, you know, held in Egypt. And it was impossible. How are we going to have this celebration of freedom when all of these people are still being held? And I got a call from someone at the CIA saying, someone is going to be sending you a video now. And we thought, what are they even talking about? And then someone who we had been in touch with, from a country that was sort of involved with all of these negotiations, sent us this video, and it was Hirsch. And I fell back on the couch. I hadn't seen him in six months. His head was shaved, he looked terrible. And he was speaking in English directly to John, Leiby, Orly and me. And he was clearly suffering. And we didn't share that video with anyone.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Yeah, it's never been seen.

[Rachel Goldberg]

And then 36 hours later, we were notified by the Israeli intelligence units that there was going to be a video released by Hamas. It was a different video where Hersh is screaming and moving his arm.

[60 Minutes Correspondent]

On the 201st day, Hamas posted this video of Hirsch.

[Rachel Goldberg]

And we see the stump of his arm.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

It was a propaganda video.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yes. And that gave us another bolt of adrenaline. Keep going, Keep going. This child needs you.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

11 months after Hersh was taken, you and other families went to the border with Gaza to scream messages to your loved ones. Do you remember that day?

[Rachel Goldberg]

So that was day 328. They had erected this platform and this very loud sound system right on the border with Gaza. And they were inviting families of hostages being held to shout to our loved ones. So we drove down there, and they handed me the microphone, and I screamed Hirsch's name. Hirsch H. It's Mama Hirsch. It's day three 28. We are all here, all the families of the remaining 107 hostages. Hirsch, we are working day and night and we will never stop. You know, I think I gave him the blessing. I think I gave him a blessing that day. May God bless you and keep you. May God shine his face upon you. We ended up finding out they killed him that day. And so I wonder, did he hear me?

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Do you think he did?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I think there are other ways that you can hear your parents screaming for you, even if you don't hear them.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

When did you find out that he was dead?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Saturday morning of day 3:30. I woke up and I thought, oh, my gosh, I just had this horrible dream. And I debated if I should tell John about the dream because it was bad. And I told him I just dreamt I was in a cemetery. And there were these planks, like a deck on the ground. And through two of the planks was a little tiny olive tree growing. And there was a plaque on it, like a death plaque. And I walked over, and the plaque had Hirsch's name on it in Hebrew and in English. There were rumors online that six bodies had been found in a tunnel in Rafah and that Hirsch was one of them. John handed me my book of psalms, which I keep next to my bed. And he said, now it's time to pray. And we started to just say psalms repetitively. Repetitively, Repetitively. We stayed up, sang Psalms from 9:15 in the evening until 4:00 in the morning when John's phone rang. And I could hear, sitting next to him, the woman who had been assigned to our family on October 7 from military intelligence, Israel Intelligence. She said, we're downstairs. And I knew no one comes at four in the morning to your house to tell you great news.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

In the book, you refer to them as messengers of death.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yeah. And the messengers of death came in. And. It was so confusing because when you've been running on adrenaline for so long, I was completely broken. Meaning I didn't cry, I didn't scream. I was broken. I had been running and fighting for so long that I didn't understand how to compute this horrific end.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

What do you recall about the funeral?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I have flashes. I remember driving there and being very confused.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

I remember there were thousands of people in the streets.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yeah, there were thousands of people. And I said to the girls, what's happening?

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You didn't know that they were there.

[Rachel Goldberg]

It was right. And Lippy said, read the signs. And every sign had his name or a picture of him or just one word. Sorry. Signs. Just saying sorry. Sorry. For six miles from Our house until the cemetery.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Do you remember what you said?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I don't remember everything I said. I do remember saying, finally, finally. Finally, you're free. And when I said that, everyone there was like this roll of. Pain, and I could feel it. Hirsch was wrapped in a prayer shawl, and I could see the contour of his face through the shawl. And I remember putting my face up and screaming, I'm sorry. And now I'm living in the world of the after, where Hirsch is gone. And every day I wake up and he's still gone. And I had so many parents say to me during Shiva, during the week where we sit in a morning tent and people come to pay their condolences. I had so many parents coming, saying, you're never gonna be okay. And I thought, what the heck? Like, kick a girl when she's down? I mean, you know, I didn't understand. And now I understand that they were trying to warn me.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

But that is the truth.

[Rachel Goldberg]

That is the truth.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

They were right.

[Rachel Goldberg]

They were right.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Do you think it ever will be?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I don't know. Well, that's. I want to be. Be fair and open to the possibility that, you know, it's been a little less than a year and a half since Hersh was killed. Maybe there will be progress. My goal for a long time is, okay, I'm carrying this tremendous ball of weight, of struggle. What if I get stronger? Like, the ball of weight is always going to be, that it's not changing, but can I get stronger? And so I am trying to figure out, what does this look like? A huge pivot for us was on day 496 when we met or Levy.

[60 Minutes Correspondent]

In February 2025, a hostage named Or Levi was released by Hamas along with two others, or had spent three days with Hirsch in a tunnel.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

What did Orr give you?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Well, first Or's name. In Hebrew, the name or means light. And we actually have this belief that your name, what name you're given, is very much helping describe what your purpose in life is. And I think he was so properly named because we were in horrible darkness.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You had had no actual information about Hirsch's time in California, who he was with,

[Rachel Goldberg]

what happened. And we went on day 496 to meet Orr, and he shine this bright light of or into our lives. And I was speaking to a group of students last week, and they said, when did your life change forever? I said, I actually think my life changed forever on October 7, on August 31, and on day 496 when we met Orr.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Orr had been in the bomb shelter or was in the truck.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yes. And we went and we met with or, and he. He's just a really special person. First of all, the fact that he got released and said to his brother, let them know, I want to meet them. He had just been released. He had just been told his wife had been killed.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

His wife was killed in, in the bomb shelter. In the bomb shelter.

[Rachel Goldberg]

He hadn't seen his son in 491 days. His son was 2 years old. His parents, his brothers. Who are we? We're no one to him. And yet he said, these people need to hear about their child. I mean, every time retelling is very emotionally challenging and psychologically challenging and mentally challenging. And so that told me everything about him already that I knew that, like, this is a. A person of great generosity, of kindness, spirit and heart. Or was in the tunnels. And Hirsch and Ori Danino are brought into the tunnel that he's in, and they spent two and a half days together. But when you're doing nothing and you're basically in a teeny, tiny closet, that's a very long time. And he and Hirsch started to talk, and Hirsch suddenly said, you're the guy from the bomb shelter. You have a son. Because at some point Orr had said to the terrorists, please, I have a son at home. Don't kill me, please. And suddenly Orr realized, oh, my gosh, you're alive. Because he saw that this boy he was speaking to in the tunnel had an arm missing.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

What did Orr tell you about Hirsch getting medical attention?

[Rachel Goldberg]

So Hirsch was bleeding to death, and for the first three days he was not treated, and on day three, was now unconscious and Oridenino was screaming at the captors, you need to get him treated. He's going to die. He's worth much more to you alive than dead. He's American. Treat him. Treat him. And they did come in with a burqa, and they dressed Hersh as a woman and they took him to the hospital and they had the jagged bone amputated.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

They took him to Al Shifa Hospital.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yes. We found out all of this information that had been a black hole. And that was when he also said that Hirsch was saying to everyone, this quote from Viktor Frankl's book, Man's Search for Meaning, that when you have a why, you can bear any.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

How Viktor Frankl's book is set in a concentration camp, and it's all about his own experiences and about how people survive.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Right. And so OR told us he was saying it constantly and it was Hersh's mantra and he was saying it to the other men who were in the tunnel.

[60 Minutes Correspondent]

What was Hersh's why?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I asked Orr that and he said, he went like this. You. It was this shocking life affirming CPR from beyond to have Hirsch through or telling us what's your why gonna be? Because you can bear this, even. This even losing me, you could do it. And so part of what I'm trying so hard to do now is to figure out what is my why.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

How do you figure out a why?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Talking about pain that I think is part of the human enterprise and that for whatever reason, we generally feel very uncomfortable doing can be part of the why. And I already know that because I've had thousands of people have reached out who want to have a voice and description for the suffering that they're experiencing. Describing it for me is part of what gets me through.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

After you buried Hirsch, you could have stopped advocating, but you and John decided to keep advocating for the others who were still being held.

[Rachel Goldberg]

I think a lot of it was when you've gone through something so brutally painful, you don't want anyone else to go through it. And we still had 101 hostages at that time that we wanted to get home. And we also knew that that was something that we could do for Hirsch, is try to save these other people.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

How did Hirsch die?

[Rachel Goldberg]

What we know is that they were all executed at close range in a tunnel under Rafah. We know that the army was close by, the Israeli army, and I think that the captors got scared, I don't know. And. And Hirsch had six bullet wounds. A bullet went through his right hand, his left shoulder, neck, out. The right side of his head was also shot at the base of his head, upward. And the bullet wound, the bullet exited the top of his head. His hair was filled with gunpowder. He had fallen forward, and on his left side was Ori Danino, who we had heard from Orr that they were inseparable and that Ori Denino always sat on Hirsch's left to make up for Hirsch not having a left hand. And he was found next to him that way.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

The other thing that Orr gave you was a prize of great value, which was that Hirsch knew what you had been doing.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yeah. He said, it's important that you know that. He told me that my mother spoke to the Secretary of State in the us.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Hershey told him that?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yeah. And I said he heard on the news I had spoken to the Secretary of State and he said, no, he heard you on the news. And it was like all of a

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

sudden,

[Rachel Goldberg]

thank God, first of all, that he heard my voice and that he knew we are nobodies. We are absolute nobodies. I even say the equivalent of John Doe in the Jewish world is Rachel Goldberg. But we tried so hard, and he knew, and that was really comforting.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You wrote in the book, people want hope, resilience, recovery, strength, survival, healing. They want thriving and rising from the ashes like the Phoenix from the days of yore. The pain is chronic, ever present, constant, gnawing, circular, not linear. That's how it feels.

[Rachel Goldberg]

That's how it feels. Now I'm open to it. Feeling different.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Have you noticed a change?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I think my understanding of grief has changed. I was dreading and uncomfortable with grief. And recently I had this whole different thought of maybe grief is actually just this precious badge of love that you wear because someone has died and your love is continuing to grow. And not everybody gets that. And also what really shocked me is the knowledge that you can love someone who you've never even met, therefore the grief can come for someone you've never met, and that the love keeps growing. That's what's been so eye opening, and it's such an epiphany to me, because

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

the love for Hirsch keeps growing.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yes, it's like bamboo. And it just keeps growing and thriving and changing.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

It's interesting that the idea that you can still have a relationship with somebody who has died was kind of revolutionary to me, and I didn't believe it, but I. I realize now I know my dad better than I knew him before, because I'm a dad, and I see what he saw through his eyes when he looked at me, when I look at my children. And I've read letters that he wrote about things that were happening behind the scenes in my childhood that I didn't know about. You've learned things about Hirsch that you didn't know previously, and you've read things about him in journals, and so your relationship with Hirsch continues. Did you know that that was possible?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I did not know. But I'll tell you something really beautiful that we just heard. A friend of Hirsch's who's gay, who's Hirsch's age now 25, was telling his parents recently he never told anyone that he was gay growing up. His father said, you never told anyone, like, that whole time? He said, I told Hirsch when we were, I think he said, 14. And his dad said, why did you tell Hirsch? And he said, because I knew he wouldn't care. And I knew he Wouldn't tell anyone. Now, I never knew that story. And it's nothing, but it's everything because it's a new way of meeting Hirsch.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You talk in the book about at the funeral, looking into the grave that Hirsch is put in, and you feel like you. Part of you is in there for sure.

[Rachel Goldberg]

For sure.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

And you still feel that for sure.

[Rachel Goldberg]

It doesn't come out.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Are you fully here?

[Rachel Goldberg]

No, no, no.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Right now?

[Rachel Goldberg]

No, definitely not. Where are you in the world to come with her?

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Part of you is already in the world to come.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yeah, I think so. I only know how to speak about what it feels like to bury a child. And it was very clear to me that I was bearing part of myself. And yet, you know, I'm the one who for so long was saying, you can hold two truths. Well, you can hold many more than two truths. Humans are jugglers, and we can juggle. And so while I'm having this very real experience of outrageously painful confusion and loss, I'm also filled with pride and feel blessed. I have two gorgeous, vivacious, dynamic girls. Daughters. I have this unbelievable partner. I mean, I don't know how I could walk through this without John. I have people who love me. I have people who care about me. And so I can hold that also. This book is about four things. Love and pain and pain and love. And that's life. I really think, when you boil it down, life is about love and pain,

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

and around it goes.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yeah. And it's part of what we sign up for when we arrive, which is not fair because we really don't have a lot of say when we arrive in this world.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

One of the things you write, you say, I need Hirsch in my life. Like, I need water, even if he's dead. So I'm obliged to find him here in new and transcendent ways. Have you found him in new and transcendent ways?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I think I. I have. And I'm always in the process of really trying hard. If you go out in the desert and you have no water, it's a problem. And I now have to live in this desert for the rest of my life without water. So if I don't want it to be a problem, I have to come up with, like, really crafty, innovative ways of making it through. And there's a lot of talking during the day that goes on.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Talking to Hirsch.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yeah. And then talking back as Hirsch.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You have conversations. You talking to Hirsch and you talking to yourself as Hirsch.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yeah. How's that work? They'll probably, like, come with Like a straight jacket shortly to take me away. But I find it very helpful if I'm having, like, a panic moment, because I'm feeling just this overwhelming. Are you here? So I'll say, hirsch. And then I say, mama. And I'll say, are you here? And I say, I'm always here, Mama. Also, something that he used to love to do, which was very funny, is he would do something, and he would just walk by me and go, favorite child. And I. Every so often, if I'm having, like, a rough day or something, I'll go, favorite child. Because he just thought. He just knew that that would, you know, get a chuckle, you know, I felt very close to him last week because I read the book out loud, and I thought it would be horrific, and it was. But I also felt really close to him. I felt like he was right here. I kept going like that. Like, I felt like he was right there.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

And that's a good feeling.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Oh, always. Hershey's a good feeling. I say sometimes before I go to sleep at night, right before I turn out my light, I always say, come to me in my dreams. Come haunt me. You know, I would love that. I'm not at all afraid of Hirsch.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Has he come to you? No, not yet.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Not yet.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Tonight's another night.

[Rachel Goldberg]

I know it could happen at any time.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You wrote, I hope I can teach myself how to miss someone forever and love someone forever in a way that doesn't run me over each day anew. Have you gotten any closer to that?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I hope so.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

It takes time. It's not easy.

[Rachel Goldberg]

I remember when John's dad died, he kept saying to me for a few months afterwards, and he said, it's so interesting because it's really final death. So that's. You know, I haven't had really, really final before. And also, it's confusing having someone stuck in the same age, being forever. 23. 23, I used to think was kind of old because I felt like he was kind of old. And now I have my girls getting closer to 23, and I think, well, but they're really young. Or I look at his friends. He has all these delightful, wonderful friends. And I'm looking at them, and they're 25 or 26, and I think, well, that's weird. And one day, you know, they'll be hopefully old and bald and heavy and have grandchildren and all these things, and Hirsch will still be 23. I'm forever missing who he was the last time I saw him. John has a different experience with the grief in that way, because he says that he pictures him at all different times of his life. I actually don't have that.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You picture him at 23?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yeah.

[60 Minutes Correspondent]

When the body of the last hostage was returned this past January, it had been 843 days since the October 7th attack. Rachel and John finally took down the people of tape their family had worn and stuck on a wall in their apartment.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

What was that like?

[Rachel Goldberg]

It was really hard. I mean, on the one hand, we were putting those pieces of tape up, hoping that we were going to get all of these people back. And we worked harder than I've ever worked doing anything in my life, in all different ways, talking with all different types of people, going to all sorts of scary places. And finally we had everybody home, but it wasn't how we wanted everybody home. And so many lives, so many innocent lives on both sides. The price was tremendous, and it was extremely painful. And there was something about peeling the tape off and the paint was coming off in our bedroom, and I thought, that's appropriate. It's like tearing the skin off our house. Here we had this huge ball of more than 3,000 pieces of tape, because between our girls and us, over 800 days, we had 3,000 pieces of tape. It was interesting for days, probably weeks afterwards. And I still, from time to time, I go like this, and I go. Because I think, oh, no, I forgot to put my tape on. And then I remember, I don't need that now.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You've spoken before about the pain on both sides of that border. What happens now?

[Rachel Goldberg]

It's a good question. I don't know. I want to believe that there's still a desire for people who just want to live. And we have to figure out how to live near each other. We don't have to all be best friends. There don't have to be any unicorns and rainbows. But we either figure out how to live near each other, or we will all die here together.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Did you ever feel your faith tested in this?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I didn't. And it is very confusing for people to digest this. But the second that they came to tell us that Hirsch was killed is the closest I've ever felt to God in my life. It felt extremely obvious to me.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

How so?

[Rachel Goldberg]

It just was. This is so horrible. And I know it's not a punishment, and I know it's not that he did anything wrong or I did anything wrong. And therefore, I know that this is directly from God. I just know it. It's not even faith or belief, because it's more than that. It's knowing. And the way I know Hirsch isn't supposed to be here now is because he's not here. And for whatever reason, this is where I'm supposed to be. I am a mother who's trying to figure out how to be here without part of myself here.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

And that tunnel is where Hirsch was supposed to be.

[Rachel Goldberg]

I don't know why. And I ask that in the book, right? Why. Why didn't he just die next to on air, his best friend? Or why didn't he die on day 502 or 431 or 698? And why with those five? Why with Ori and Alex and Almog and Eden and Carmel? Why? I don't know why. And it's the knowing that we're not going to always know why. And of course, part of our hubris, as you know, we think we're such evolved, knowledgeable human. Human beings is that we're going to figure it out. And I think the first step in really being wise is knowing you're probably never going to figure most things out. And the older you get, the less you should know.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

I, for a long time, questioned why on things like my brother's death. And I realized, looking back, that a lot of, like, my early travels go. Going to war zones and talking to people was trying to figure out a way to live in a world where there isn't a why and be comfortable that some things don't have answers.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Right? Right.

[60 Minutes Correspondent]

Rachel has kept Hersh's room as he left it.

[Rachel Goldberg]

And that's the tape that we took down.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Oh, my gosh. It's extraordinary to see all the pain and everything that is in that ball.

[Rachel Goldberg]

You know, it's like these. These symbols of failure, what we were fighting for did happen. We got all of these people home not as we wanted. We wanted them home alive, but they had come home.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You said it's. These are all symbols of failure. Do you think you fail?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Yeah.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You did more than anybody could possibly do.

[Rachel Goldberg]

It's true. And sometimes 100% is not enough.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Do you come in this room still?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I do, but not with super regularity. I don't need to come in this room to find Hirsch.

[60 Minutes Correspondent]

You don't have to be in this

[Rachel Goldberg]

room to find Hirsch. No, I feel Hirsch everywhere, all the time.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Will you always keep it like this?

[Rachel Goldberg]

Well, it's interesting. I don't know what to do with it either way. How does it help to pack it up? Like what? To make it into a exercise room, a TV room, a guest room. I mean, how does that help? And on the other hand, there is something very sad in a way of, oh, why is this room still like this?

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

It's such the room of a young person about to embark on their life.

[Rachel Goldberg]

Totally. I mean, there's a sweetness. And he does have friends who ask to come over, and if they can just come in here.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

I can't believe that we are standing here in this room.

[Rachel Goldberg]

I know. I was so sure when I met you that you would meet him. And I'm telling you, I'm not saying it as a mother, because I tried very hard not to mythologize or lionize him, but I'm telling you, you would have loved him.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You found something that Hirsch wrote back in 2015 in a journal that he had thrown out.

[Rachel Goldberg]

These are journal entries. They're in Hebrew. It's a page and a half of a journal. So that's not a lot. It was written on October 26th of 2015. He had just started 9th grade freshman. And the thing that I saw as Orlie was reading it is her face went completely white. She said, it's prophecy. And she started to read it to me. And what's interesting is there's a word that continues to be said again and again. He wrote, life is like the world. In order to exist, you have to move and work hard. Every so often, you arrive at a tunnel and you enter the unknown. And you don't know when you will get out to walk in the dark. In the beginning, you are upset and you are not ready, and you feel that you have arrived at the edge. But it is not the exit or the end. It is just a change in the situation. It is possible there will be improvement, but for the time being, there is none. But also, the one who is in the tunnel knows that there will be an end to it and that this is not the final tunnel. To every person, there is a tunnel that belongs to them. Some have small tunnels and some have long tunnels. But what is certain is there is an end. How much time it will take to get to the end of the tunnel depends on the person. If it is with despair, it will take a longer time, or if you enter it with all of your might, it will pass quicker. My tunnel was when I was the new one. But. But like everything in life, I pass through the tunnel. Who knows how many more tunnels I will encounter? But in contrast to the previous tunnel I entered, I will enter this one with all of my might and hope to pass through it more easily. But whatever comes my way. It won't stop me. It will only slow me down. But I am not afraid to slow down or even to make a U turn. What I am sure is that I am walking to the end of the tunnel.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

What did you think when you heard that?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I mean, it really shook us. Because in Hebrew, also in English. I mean, I just don't think that people really. Wax nostalgic about tunnels.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Your daughter called it a prophecy, right?

[Rachel Goldberg]

And he says tunnel like I think it's 12 times. Why is tunnel written so many times? And it was interesting for us because it was nine years before he was trapped in these tunnels. And we know he was moved from tunnel to tunnel to tunnel and then killed in a tunnel.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

You believe you will see him again?

[Rachel Goldberg]

I don't know what it will look like, but I like to think I'll see him again. He'd be grand.

[48 Hours Podcast Host]

From the trusted team behind 48 hours. Welcome to Case by Case, your weekly update on the biggest true crime stories on unfolding right now.

[60 Minutes Interviewer]

Nick Reiner remains in custody without bail. Luigi Mangione accused of stalking and gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

[48 Hours Podcast Host]

From high profile trials and stunning evidence to major breaks in cold cases, we'll follow it all case by case. Follow and listen to 48 Hours case by case. Wherever you get your podcasts.