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- [00:00]
A
Hey listeners, it's Jill Schlesinger, CBS News business analyst and certified financial planner. Today I'm thrilled to share the first episode of my brand new podcast. It's called Money Moves with me, Jill Schlesinger. Money Moves is a show that helps you take control of your financial life. With no jargon, no judgment, just actionable financial guidance. We're going to demystify your financial life and provide you with perspective on how to manage your money and your emotions without losing your mind. I've been answering financial questions for decades, decades now. And I want to do it with you. If you have a question, just go to jillonmoney.com and click the contact us button. We'll get you on the air. Here's the first episode of Money Moves. Enjoy. Welcome to Money Moves. I'm your host, Jill Schlesinger. I'm a certified financial planner. My co host is Mark Tularcio, also a certified financial planner, also my executive producer of my life.
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B
I just got the email this week that I have to pay my annual dues.
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A
Oh, is that right?
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B
To renew my cfp.
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A
Oh, it's, it's expensive.
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B
I'm going to guess it didn't go down.
- [01:06]
A
I know. I think it's like 600 or 700 bucks now. Anyway, nice racket. CFP board. We're happy that we passed the test. We're never giving it up. Hey gang. This is a program that tries to kind of help you along your financial journey, wherever you are. So if you've got a question about something going on in your financial life, you need some help. Maybe, maybe it's a job related issue. Maybe you're worried about technology. Maybe you are just trying to figure out what's the next best step for you about a particular issue. Get in touch with us. AskJillbs.com, we love talking to you about money and about complicated topics. Mark, I have bad news for people who are hoping that their parents die soon.
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B
Maybe, maybe.
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A
I just wanna say so. I was a financial planner in, in the 90s and the early 2000s and we at that time were talking about this thing called the Great wealth transfer. You've heard of it, of course, which is basically for a big segment of baby boomers and Gen Xers that they would be passing wealth down to the next generation. And this was going to be like a massive transfer of wealth from one generation to another.
- [02:18]
B
It's like a waterfall.
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A
It's a waterfall. It's a beautiful waterfall. So here's the problem. If you Were counting on that money. It may not actually happen as much as you thought it would or as soon as you thought it would.
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B
First of all, I'm not counting on it, but do tell me why.
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A
Okay, first of all, people are living longer and they're spending more on their own care, so that's a big deal. And I think people who are waiting for a pile of money at the end of the rainbow, they may not get it.
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B
This is like the longevity factor.
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A
Longevity factor, like our friend Michael Clinton likes to talk about. I hate the idea that there's intergenerational conflict in some respects. I know it's a big thing. Like, I have a friend who all she can do is complain about, like, oh, these kids, da, da, da, da. I actually think that one of the reasons that I wanted to do this show with you, Mark, was to be able to break down that barrier a little bit and say, yeah, you know, we have a lot to learn from each other. We really do. And you should be very careful about how you approach a conversation with sweeping generalizations about anyone. But I particularly get very ticked off when people will say things about these millennials or these Gen Zs or they're lazy or they're this. I think that it would go a long way if we can try to like break down some of these barriers and use this show to build bridges. We're lovers, not fighters. No, but I really, I think it's important because I do think that when I look at what hand somebody is dealt in the economy, a lot of it is luck. Mark. I graduated. I'm gonna just out myself. I graduated in 1987. It was a rip roaring bull market. You had to be a complete fricking moron not to get a job. When I graduated from college and not many people, I didn't know many people who lived home. It was very affordable. You just shared an ap. You just got on your way. My best friend from camp and I shared an apartment. It was great. The world is different now.
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B
Yeah, no, you can't do that anymore.
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A
I think the other part of it is I'm interested to hear about how. And I know that we hear this on our other show on Jill on Money. We get a lot of people in their 50s and their 60s and their 70s, and they're talking about how do I responsibly help my kids. I have wealth. I don't want them to get a big pile of money when I die, but maybe I should be doing something more while I am living. So, Mark, what do you think of that? What do you think of this idea that instead of just waiting till I die while I'm here, given that housing is expensive and education is expensive and having kids is expensive, how about opening up the purse strings now?
- [04:55]
B
I'm all for that. If you have the ability to do that. I would much rather do it while I'm alive and I can enjoy it and see the benefits of doing such a thing to help it out my kids. Absolutely. Rather than waiting until I'm, you know, kicking the bucket, I can't see any of this. And there's different ways to do it. Like, if you have multiple kids, maybe one kid needs help versus the other kid, and you want to help one person now, you can, you know, you can figure out ways to deal with this and write certain things into the will so everything's even. Steven, you're not upsetting anybody. But absolutely, if you have the means to do it while you're alive, I would do it.
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A
I also think as somebody who has been able to write some checks to nieces or nephews, and the feeling of, like, the joy that you can get from that and seeing them having the ability to do something different in their lives is so great, and they're gonna
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B
take care of you.
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A
Well, that's my hope. When you need help, remember that every time I give a gift, I say, just remember, Aunt Jackie and Aunt Jill need your help. I think that there are a few things to consider if you are having, like, this conversation in your head, which is to be honest with your family and to be able to have a hard conversation and say, you know, we've talked to people, and they're like, I know I'm gonna inherit some money. I just don't know how much. I would just like to break the glass ceiling, the side ceiling. I just like to break the taboo of the topic and have conversations like, hey, I need the money now. I have three kids. I'm struggling. I. You don't have to make it equal right now. You can make this up in your estate documents later. But I had a very good friend who's a gazillionaire. That's the official term. And he always said, I treat my kids equitably, but not equally. And what his theory was was that each of them needed something different at different points in their lives. He would make the gesture. You each want a house. I want you to have a place to live. We just spoke to somebody who's sibling, had a ton of money and said, I wanna buy a condo. For my sibling who's struggling a little bit or having a harder time, I think if you're able to do it, great. It's not enabling in that respect. Enabling to me is like your kid is a bust out, is on his ass all day not working or not working to his potential. And you're just financing that. That I think is in my next book which is called the non parent's Guide to Parenting. I would say that's bad parenting.
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B
Bailout after bailout after bailout.
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A
Yeah.
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B
No, this is.
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A
So I am all about transferring the wealth during your life. More so than waiting till the end. So maybe kids, you get something right now could be good. Okay, time for the best part of the program. It is all about you jillionaires people. If you have questions, get in touch with us. Today we are joined by Toby. Toby, where are we talking to you from?
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C
Hi, Streaming live from Manhattan, New York.
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A
Fantastic. You look marvelous.
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C
Thank you.
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A
Hey, what's going on? What can we do for you financially that is because you don't need no other help.
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C
Oh, thank you. Well, financially, I think we're in an interesting moment where the stock market is hotter than ever. And I think people are looking for alternative investments. Maybe something that feels more active but isn't quite so competitive. Like something like stock picking, which we know there's tons of computer programs that can edge the average person out of making any money on the stock market. So me personally, I have a penchant for sterling silver jewelry. In particular antique and provenance pieces.
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B
Show me your bracelets, Tony.
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A
Let's see it.
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B
Show me your bracelets.
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A
Yes, that is excellent. Love that. So good.
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C
Thank you.
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A
So you are looking for a way to accumulate wealth to make money, but you're not that into the whole stock market thing. Now, can I give you the good and the bad news about the way you just laid out your thesis. The good news is you're sort of right. Nobody knows how to pick stocks. It's not because of computers. It's so great. It's just because you can buy an index fund and be a participant in stocks going up without having to pick something that is better than another thing. So the good news is that you are absolutely have the stock market available to you. The bad news is that there probably isn't a better way to start accumulating wealth. So, Mark, what about Toby's penchant for sterling silver jewelry as a wealth accumulation?
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B
As a wealth accumulation a little bit. If that's what floats his boat. Yeah, sure.
- [09:45]
A
Yeah. Okay. So when we say a little bit like, this is a funny question because we're talking to you the week of the SpaceX IPO, right? So we're getting tons of people who are asking us, should I buy this? Should I buy this? Like, so that's the ultimate in stock picking, right? And you say to yourself, well, I want in on this. So on one hand I say like, okay, well, you don't really need to do that. It's going to end up in an index fund. Fine. But if you wanted to do that, what I say is that any individual investment, anything. Like if you said it was silver futures, silver jewelry, crypto, your best friend is starting a business and you want to invest in it, I would say that if you keep the investment to that single idea, 5 to 10% of your invested assets, then you're fine. But if you're wrong, if all of a sudden you're wrong, like let's say, Toby, you're like, okay, I have $10,000 to invest in sterling silver jewelry, right? I have 100 grand or 150 grand that's invested. I. I'm gonna take 10 and I'm gonna use that as an investment. Then if the price of silver goes down dramatically and it even gets cut in half. I was a commodities trader. It was my first job on Wall Street. So I've seen silver go up and down. If you're wrong and the whole thing moves against you, no big deal. But Mark, what about the upside?
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B
The upside is there's a lot of upside. I was gonna say, though, I do feel like we find this a lot with newish investors. We say, just buy an index fund.
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A
It sounds boring.
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B
Sounds so boring. It's not. You're not picking that. The next hot stock, Right? But really boring does truly work in this game.
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A
Toby, I think you are on your way. I feel comfortable. Just, Just know that owning an index fund inside of your retirement account, that's great. This is a little icing on the cake. So let's try to make sure you get where you want to go. And if you have any, any more questions, anything else comes up and you want to gloat to us. When silver goes to 10,000, you come back on the air and you say, you idiots, I should have done more than $10,000.
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C
Okay, all right, stay tuned.
- [11:51]
A
Exactly. I love this question, especially because I had a step grandmother. Mark, you don't even know this. My grandfather's second wife, who escaped when the Nazis were marching into the Hungarian village she lived in. Her mother handed her like A stack of gold jewelry. And so her whole life, all she wanted was to make sure she had her gold jewelry. It saved her life. Now, I know Toby's not talking about saving his life, but I think a lot of people love the idea of a tangible asset, something they can hold, they can see. It's a house or real estate. It's a precious metal. It's sterling silver. This satisfies this emotional anxiety around sometimes investing in something that feels very far from you.
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B
Yeah, sometimes people, especially newish investors, they don't really trust the stock market. They think the stock market is rigged against them. You know, it's only for the rich, the wealthy, and, you know, they're just going to lose out.
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A
So I get it.
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B
I do get it.
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A
Today, Mark, we have Dave, who is joining us from the nutmeg state that is Connecticut. I'm very proud that I knew that. Hello, Dave. How are you doing?
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D
Great.
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A
What's going on and what can we do for you?
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D
So me and my partner, we're both very enthusiastic listeners to the show, and we were just, you know, it's very important for us to have your blessing. Both of us have been working towards fire. You know, we're not necessarily subscribed to the idea of retiring permanently, but we just kind of want to get a sense of what number would we need to hit in order to work if we wanted to.
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A
Okay, Mark, do you want to just give him the number right now without knowing anything else?
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B
Yeah.
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A
All right, everyone remember when fire was a thing that is financial independence. Retire early. Mark, do you remember the fire people that we interviewed? Vividly, vividly. They came into a studio. We're in the CBS News broadcast center, but we were downstairs in a much nastier studio, and these people came in and they told us they had a million bucks and they were traveling the world. And they were how old? 35.
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D
If that.
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A
If that. Maybe they were in their early 30s and they had a million dollars. And I said, that's it. I was shocked.
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B
The reason they were in studio, she had just written a book.
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A
Yes.
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B
About the fire movement and retiring on basically $30,000 a year.
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A
And then they were going to travel the world. I said, well, what do you do with all your stuff? And she goes, it's right here. She pointed to a bag in the corner. And Mark said, oh, no, I can't do that. No. Okay, so, Dave, how much do we. So listen, when you're thinking about any of these questions, when I can retire, how can I make a different decision about my Career. The biggest variable is how much money do you spend. So you and your partner, do you have a big fat lifestyle that we're trying to save for or what?
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D
So right now, our expenses, and we've tracked them over the last few years, land somewhere around 90k. And so we would also estimate, you know, obviously without an employer health insurance plan, probably another 10k on top of that.
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A
Right, Right. Okay, so we need to get you 100 grand a year. So how much money have you guys saved already in retirement versus non retirement assets?
- [14:59]
D
Within the 401k in pre tax dollars, we have $572,000. In the Roth portion of the 401k, we have $231,000. With the 403 that my partner has 30,000 there, and that's all pre tax. And then outside of the employer plan, we have Roth iras with a bucket of cash in them, and that's about $178,000. An HSA with $73,000, and then the bridge account, which we say at the brokerage, that is at 1.469.
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A
Holy smokes. Let's say one and a half million. How old are you guys?
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B
How old are you guys?
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D
So I am 40 and she is 36.
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A
What is the goal here, though? Let's just think about this. Are you, like, working in a job that you hate? Are you thinking, like, I want to do something different? Like, what is when you're this age, if you're this young, My real question is, are you miserable doing what you're doing?
- [16:05]
D
So I really do enjoy the work. I enjoy working with my clients. And in that respect, the job is really fulfilling. It's just unfortunate because with my expertise, basically I need to commute into the major cities. And so my commute is a bit of a bear. It's about two and a half hours.
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A
You mean round trip or not each way.
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D
So each way what? And so I think that's part of the challenge is right now I basically commute up, I rent a place, work during the week, and then really my time to live is on the weekends. Right. And I think there's kind of this antsiness I feel in terms of transitioning to something where I can have a bit of a social life during the week.
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A
I think you're very close. Here's what I'm hearing from you, okay? We talk to people who are much older than you are, but they are voicing the same thing, which is, hey, I am working my ass off. Either my commute or the work itself. Is insane. And I don't know if I want to live my life keeping up this pace. Now, Mark and I come from, like, more cut from the same cloth, which was. We never questioned these things. We should just dopes. I mean, this is what people say to me, like, there's a difference in the generations. I'm like, yes, they are smarter than we are because we gave our entire lives over to our careers. And you can't get that time back, Mark. You just can't.
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B
No, I mean, there's something to be said for quality of life. You can just hear in his voice. It's a struggle for him right now. I'm sure he loves making the money, he loves saving the money, but at some point, he wants to pull it back and get his life back. So what's the time frame?
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A
Yeah, well, how long do we have to get you out of this hellhole commute?
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D
So I would say 12 days. We do it. Yeah, yesterday, you know, No, I mean, realistically speaking, I could probably keep this up for, you know, two to three years.
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A
But could you do something like, okay, now that you have this chunk of money you've done this hard work of saving, is it possible that you could transition into something else where you would make less money but have an easier commute and have, like, similar level of fulfillment professionally but not kill yourself?
- [18:20]
D
Yeah, for sure. And I think downshifting to something, you know, variety is the spice of life. I think, like, there's a lot of things that you could pursue in life that are interesting. So I think the question would be, can I find that thing and also sustain us?
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B
I mean, you've done the heavy lift. Like, you've given yourself the opportunity to make a decision here.
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A
I'm gonna give you, like, the Aunt Jill blessing, the Jewish girl papal blessing of, you know what, you've killed it. You two are on your way to go wherever you want to go. So do you need a permission structure to do this? You've given it to yourself and everyone else listening. You don't need two and a half million dollars to get here, okay? But the reality is, the whole point of saving money early is to give yourself these opportunities, Mark. I mean, this is the freedom that people are hoping for. And in fact, if I may be so bold, it's kind of what allowed you to walk away from a standard 9 to 5, or 5 to 9 mostly job where you could start doing stuff with me that was much more flexible, where, you know, honestly, if you stayed where you were, you were. You would be Making more money because I don't pay him that much.
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B
Three words, Best decision ever.
- [19:34]
A
Yes. So Dave, live your best life. I think this is a no brainer. You don't need to retire early. It's your next thing. It's a way for you to take my book, the great money, reset and reset your life so you don't have to commute that you can really feel, feel like, hey, we have put ourselves in a place to get to this point. And you know what, Mark, having those options, it's huge.
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B
That's why you save, to give yourself these options.
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A
It's why you save. But it's also you have to give yourself permission to spend. Right? So Dave, when you figure out where you're ready to downshift if you had to dip into some of your savings to cover that hundred grand, don't do this too quickly. Take a breath, get a pathway. You're there. You're totally there. I have no problem with this game plan. So now it's time for one of our favorite parts of the program. It's the TikTok takedown. If you see something in your feed that is kind of interesting to you and you want an opinion about whether it's legit or not or whether you should consider it, should you take the advice or not? Send it to us. Clip that. Send it to us again. Ask JillBS.com okay, let's watch this one, Mark, and get that blood pressure medication ready.
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E
Here's why you should never pay off your house. Here's your house. It's worth 100,000. That's what this stack is worth. And you've been told by Dave Ramsey and other people, I got to get my house paid off because I'm going to be financially free. False. Most people will accelerate getting their house paid off by throwing extra money on their 30 year mortgage. And maybe after 20 years you do it. You finally wipe it out. You own your house for free and clear. I got news for you. What do you have for retirement? You got nothing for retirement because you put all your focus in getting your house paid off. Instead, mortgage that house. Access the majority of this money. You know what I'd use it for? I'd go buy five more houses. Imagine those first five houses are each cash flowing, $500 a month. But a few years later, you're going to sell those five for 15 more. You're going to sell those 15 for 50 more. Now imagine $500 coming off of every one of those houses. How many houses do you need to cover all of your expenses for the rest of your life. You could manage those homes yourself, or you could just hire a property management company. And guess what? They'll do all of it for you. Now go ahead and pay off your house if you want, but until that happens, don't. It'll be the biggest mistake of your life.
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A
I mean, the biggest mistake of your. I was with.
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B
I was with him for like the first 30 seconds.
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A
No, like the first minute. I was all in, like, yes, yes, do not pay down your mortgage. Keep that cash flow, save for retirement. But then he makes the turn.
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B
I mean, it was so hard for me to follow. What was he talking like, put all of your. Buy five houses, then buy 50 houses, then 20. What is he saying?
- [22:13]
A
Okay, I think what he's saying is leverage your house, meaning borrow the money, buy another piece of property, create rental income. Now, I am not anti rental income. I mean, it's fine. It's just really hard to manage property, make money with that property. And there's huge risk, right? What's the risk? You know, everyone always talks about rental property. It's the greatest thing in the world. Except then you've got a renter who trashes your place. Except you have a recession and all of a sudden you don't rent the place for four months. Except that you've got other priorities and there's no liquidity.
- [22:50]
B
That's it right there. That's it. It's all about liquidity. I want to have my money in a taxable brokerage account where I can get my hands on it.
- [22:57]
A
Or you want to be putting money into a retirement account. So we have often talked to people who have made a ton of money with rental property.
- [23:08]
B
Yeah, sure. I'm not against rental properties. Am I against. You know what this guy's saying? 100%.
- [23:13]
A
Okay? So if you have a question and you think like, I just gotta be buying rental property. Cause this guy with weird hair says I should get in touch with us. Well, gang, that's the show. And if I'm wearing the same outfit show after show, you know that we are pre taping a lot of these first early shows. So come on, give us a little. Give us a little space here. We'll get there. Okay? If you've got a financial question, send us a video. Send us an email, askjillbs.com or go to jillonmoney.com, click the contact us button. We want to hear from you. This show is about you. We are here to help you navigate your journey. Thank you so much for listening, for watching. Like us. Promote us.
- [23:54]
B
Subscribe.
- [23:55]
A
Subscribe to us. Just make us really happy. Because then our overlords will renew our contract. That would be kind of fun, right, Mark?
- [24:02]
B
Tbd.
- [24:03]
A
TBD is right. Hey there, it's Jill Schlesinger. I'm launching a new show. It's called Money Moves, and your money is going to move. We're going to help you make better financial decisions. We're going to call out the B.S. you're finding all over social media. We're going to give you actionable guidance to make your financial life clearer, less stressful. We're going to answer your financial questions and take the mystery out of your financial life. Follow and listen to Money Moves with Jill Schlesinger. Wherever you get your podcasts.