Audio Flux

Summary

99% Invisible — “Audio Flux”

Host: Roman Mars
Guest: Julie Shapiro (co-creator of Audioflux)
Date: January 20, 2026

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Overview

This episode of 99% Invisible with Roman Mars dives into the world of Audioflux, a project created by Julie Shapiro and John Delore to champion short-form, experimental audio storytelling. As the podcasting ecosystem has shifted towards longer-form, conversational formats, Audioflux seeks to celebrate creativity, constraint, and diversity in audio through a series of themed, three-minute audio “Flux Works.” Mars and Shapiro discuss the origin, purpose, and format of Audioflux and share notable submissions from recent circuits, highlighting how design in storytelling flourishes with limitation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Origins and Motivation of Audioflux

• Decline in Short-Form Audio: Julie and John saw the podcasting landscape becoming dominated by long-form content, sidelining shorter, creative storytelling (02:07, 02:40).
• A Response to Industry Fatigue: Both were in transitional moments in their careers and saw widespread creative fatigue—Audioflux was created as “something to appreciate, you know, audio for the sake of audio” and to uplift the community (03:24).
• Community and Spirit: The project serves to both invigorate their own spirits and to offer a rejuvenating creative challenge to the audio community (03:24).

Quote:

“If you invite people to make something and give them a little bit of parameters to play with… it always works. You can always invite people to get creative and they will always respond in some fashion."
—Julie Shapiro (01:48)

How Audioflux Works

• Twice-Yearly ‘Circuits’: Each circuit teams with a new creative partner (e.g., illustrator, writer), generating a fresh theme and prompts each time (04:33).
• Three-Minute Limit: Each piece (“Flux Work”) must be exactly three minutes—a nod to the classic pop song and an approachable entry point (04:52).
• Structure: Invited commissions, open call submissions, winners presented at live events, online release, and now the podcast (06:06).
• Community Engagement: Emphasis on debuting works at public events to build community (06:06).

Quote:

“Three-minute pop songs are very popular. And these Flux Works almost end up being like little pop songs that you can listen to over and over.”
—Julie Shapiro (04:59)

• Purposeful Constraint: The tight structure serves as a counterpoint to the sprawl of modern podcasts and a “protest” against loss of imagination in the medium (05:41).

Expanding the Definition of a Podcast

• Encouraging Experimentation: The format gives both emerging and established producers space to try new styles or approach personal stories in a new way (11:14).
• Podcast as Showcase: The Audioflux podcast collects and celebrates these works, emphasizing brevity and creative freedom (40:04).

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Featured Flux Works & Segment Timestamps

1. The Sound of Silence by Gregory Warner

Theme: Letting Go (with artist Wendy McNaughton)
[07:52–10:53]

• Warner narrates the unexpected arrival of enchanting “tones” his wife hears when meditating during the pandemic, later revealed as tinnitus—a condition reflecting both loss and the mind’s search for meaning.
• Poignant integration of personal anecdote and scientific explanation.

Memorable Quote:

“Tinnitus is the sound of the brain’s refusal to let go of what it once had.”
—Gregory Warner (09:47)

2. In Between Silence by Talia Augustidis

Theme: Listening With (inspired by Annea Lockwood and Sam Green’s 32 Sounds)
[13:13–16:06]

• Audio collage blending the narrator’s London soundscape with first-hand accounts from Gaza residents, centering on the omnipresent “Zenana” (drone) buzz and the meaning of true silence under siege.
• Contrasts periods of quiet and noise, exploring silence as both respite and foreboding.

Notable Quote:

“The drones feel so familiar in Gaza that they’ve earned a nickname—Zenana. It means an annoying buzzing... A buzzing which becomes near constant during periods of increased violence.”
—Gaza Resident, voiced in piece (13:48)

3. The Ghost on Side B by Caitlin Halewood & Alan Gifinski

Theme: Firsts / First Times (with writer Jason Reynolds)
[21:50–24:35]

• The surprise discovery of a father’s voice on an old cassette, lost and found by chance, turns a mundane tape into an emotional portal across space and time.
• Sound design immerses listeners in the tactile and emotional sensation of analog technology and memory.

Memorable Quote:

“Hearing my dad for the first time didn’t feel like looking at a photograph. It felt like touch. Tiny spools with reels of magnetic tape coiled into a plastic cassette. This was a portal.”
—Caitlin Halewood (24:21)

4. First Words by Peter Lang Stanton

Theme: Firsts / First Times
[28:00–31:41]

• A time-lapse journey through the first two years of a child's life, capturing the slow emergence of language and the deep yearning for first words.
• Juxtaposes generational home movies, parental impatience, and the eventual wonder of communication.

Notable Quote:

“Imagine a new roommate. But you can’t talk to each other for the first two years.”
—Peter Lang Stanton (29:34)

5. Red Card by Vivian Schutz & Laura Rojas Aponte

Theme: Creative Tension (with Lorna Hamilton Brown, the “Banksy of Knitting”)
[33:59–37:04]

• Centered on the distribution and symbolism of “red cards” that inform U.S. immigrants of their rights during law enforcement encounters—a small, powerful object in the battle for civil liberties.
• Mixes market vendor testimony, activist scholarship, and direct readings of the cards, blending art and activism.

Memorable Quotes:

“...the red card is a beautiful symbol, but at the same time, to me, it is also kind of an index of how tiny, how little, how fragile our rights are.”
—Activist/Scholar (35:57)

“As a printmaker, what I can do is print something for you… but when those things are not effective, I don’t know what to do.”
—Lorna Hamilton Brown (36:44)

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Additional Insights & Reflections

• The Power of Constraint: Limiting stories to three minutes democratizes participation, lowers creative barriers, and re-ignites playfulness and risk-taking in audio (04:59, 05:41).
• Community & Evolution: Audioflux bridges new and veteran creators, often fostering ideas that grow into larger projects (27:20).
• Art as Response: Flux Works like “Red Card” illustrate design’s role at the intersection of art, activism, and the lived experiences of marginalized communities (37:13, 37:57).
• Changing Media Landscape: Roman notes nostalgia for an era when short, creative audio storytelling was the norm, and celebrates Audioflux for reviving and evolving this tradition (38:35, 39:10).

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Notable Quotes

• “I want to expand your definition of what a podcast can be.”
  —Roman Mars (02:56)
• “There’s such a boundless possibility for storytelling even in this short duration.”
  —Julie Shapiro (16:21)
• “Stories like this… tell a full story of the world that we’re in through a small object.”
  —Roman Mars (37:04)
• “Speaking them, it’s what sort of gives them their power. Rights not used are rights lost.”
  —Roman Mars (37:57)

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How to Get Involved & Further Links

• Participate: Anyone can submit to Audioflux’s biannual open call (39:45).
• Podcast: Audioflux’s own show features short, curated Flux Works—“maybe 10 minutes, 20 at the most”—hosted by Amy Pearl (40:04).
• Website: Learn more and sign up at [audioflux.org] or via their social media.

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Closing Tone

Roman Mars and Julie Shapiro’s rapport is warm, creative, and deeply appreciative of audio as an art form. The episode is a rallying cry for experimentation, brevity, and the revival of creative community in a podcasting world often fixated on length.

Final Invitation:

“Every single person listening to this is very welcome to give it a go and submit to the next circuit, which should be launching at the end of February.”
—Julie Shapiro (39:45)

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This episode is a testament to the possibility and vibrancy of short-form audio storytelling—a true celebration of design in a medium we often take for granted.

Transcript

[Roman Mars]

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[Julie Shapiro]

We would invite people to make short audio stories inspired by a set of prompts and we just trusted the fact that if you invite people to make something and give them a little bit of a parameters to play with, you know my my mantra is like it always works. You can always invite people to get creative and they will always respond in some fashion.

[Roman Mars]

Over the years I must have listened to dozens of shortdocs and hearing them gave me this jolt of inspiration. They were a reminder about what was possible with audio and how the whole medium benefits when there's a place for all kinds of storytelling. However, in recent years the audio business has changed. Long form conversation type podcasts dominate and it's made it harder for Documentary and short form experimental audio to find a home. Which is why Julie Shapiro and her creative partner, John Delore created Audioflux.

[Julie Shapiro]

We thought, you know, everything is longer and longer and longer and longer. So what if we could, you know, create some energy around a short form? So John and I decided to create Audioflux, which is sort of a new version of the ShortDocs challenge, but maybe a little bit more for the podcasting age.

[Roman Mars]

AudioFlux was recently recognized by the New Yorker as one of the best podcasts of 2025. And I want to share this project because I'm a big fan of what Julie and John are creating, and I want to expand your definition of what a podcast can be. We're going to play some Audio Flux stories in a bit, but first I'm going to talk with Julie about how it all works. So let's start off with a bit of an origin story here. How did you and John first arrive at the idea for Audioflux?

[Julie Shapiro]

Yeah, so we started in the spring of 2023, talking to each other. John and I had kind of known each other for known of each other, really. We had a lot of people in common because we both had these long histories of working in public radio and coming into podcasting, you know, in its early heydays. And so we were talking in the spring, cause he had just been let go from a job with a big podcast company, and I was in between positions, and we were just talking about how morale seemed really low, low in the creative audio corner of podcasting and in our community and amongst our friends. The people we kept talking to felt I just, like, really could sense this industry fatigue, you know, at every turn. And we started thinking about what could we do in this moment together that might reverse some of that or give people something to appreciate, you know, audio for the sake of audio. And this idea for Audioflux came out of that kind of motivation to offer something back to the community and also do something that would bring our own spirits up at the same time.

[Roman Mars]

So how does it work? Like, how do you get people to do it? How do you set up the structure for the sort of challenge?

[Julie Shapiro]

So twice a year we run circuits, and for each circuit we have a different creative partner, like an illustrator or a pet portrait artist or a writer. And it's with that partner that the theme for the circuit and the prompts that we invite people to respond to are. So it boils down to that formula.

[Roman Mars]

And another part of the Audioflux design is that each story is only Three minutes long. So why three minutes?

[Julie Shapiro]

So we thought three minutes would be inviting enough to convince people to try to give it a go, to participate in the circuits. But it's also like this iconic duration, right? Like, three minute pop songs are very popular. And these Flux Works, we call them Flux Works, almost end up being like. Or like little pop songs that you can listen to over and over. And there certainly are some that I kind of sing along with when I hear them. So you can do enough in three minutes to make a really compelling, memorable, profound audio story. But it also is not too daunting if you're trying to do something in a limited amount of time or for the first time.

[Roman Mars]

I mean, I think most podcast ads are longer than three minutes at this point.

[Julie Shapiro]

I know. Well, this is our way of protesting against all of the. What's happened to podcasting? In a way, I just, I'm a big. I want. I'm a big podcast fan. I make podcasts, I listen to podcasts. But I have, you know, I think we're all a little frustrated with some of the things that have happened in the industry and how the kind of imagination has left the building.

[Roman Mars]

So how far along are you with the project?

[Julie Shapiro]

So we've had two banner years, I must say. We have run six different circuits, which means we have partnered with six different creative partners, six different sets of rules, six different themes. And the life cycle of a circuit is that we commission four pieces from producers who we invite, and then we do an open call, and then anyone can participate in the open call, and then we pick winners and we present the winners, and the commission works at a big live event somewhere. It's really important to us to bring the community together to listen to these pieces. And. And so we have been always debuting them first in a public setting at a conference or a festival, and then we put them online, and now we have the podcast for them to appear in as well.

[Roman Mars]

Well, I am very excited to listen to some of these flux works, as you call them. So let's start with one from the first circuit of stories. This one's called the Sound of Silence. Could you tell us about this piece?

[Julie Shapiro]

So our partner for the first circuit was the incredible artist and illustrator, Wendy McNaughton. And with her we came up with this theme of letting. And this was based on a book that she had written and recently published after spending some time with people at the end of their lives. So the book was called how to say Goodbye. And in talking to Wendy, we thought about a theme that Wasn't exactly that, but letting Go really touched on the things she was drawing and writing about. And so this was the theme we brought to the producers to work with. And Gregory Warner made this piece called the Sound of Silence, which was about a situation he, his wife, found herself in and, you know, touches on letting go, but also really dives into a certain time and place and space in their lives.

[Roman Mars]

All right, well, let's hear it.

[Gregory Warner]

So a few years ago, this thing happened to my wife, Sana. She'd be meditating or reading a book, and she'd hear a sound.

[Roman Mars]

A kind.

[Gregory Warner]

Of ghostly tone just above and behind.

[Sid Wood]

Her right ear, as though someone were reading over my shoulder with me and delighting in it along with me.

[Gregory Warner]

An odd but delightful thing at a time when delight was in short supply. The pandemic's first spring. Sana's mind on high alert. Schools closed, death and doom on the news. One tiny home office for the two of us.

[Sid Wood]

I was trying to get work done, and you were always on the phone in interviews.

[Gregory Warner]

But the tone was like a place.

[Sid Wood]

That I could go to. It was like a dome I could enter that was almost insulated by static. It let me let go of all this high cortisol shit.

[Gregory Warner]

And the tone could also tune her in to the most everyday moments. Our kid practicing piano.

[Sid Wood]

Every note was almost like a pebble thrown into a lake in such a way that it created these musical ripples.

[Gregory Warner]

Well, you never told me this.

[Sid Wood]

Well, because, you know, it wasn't what.

[Julie Shapiro]

I thought it was.

[Gregory Warner]

The tone, not what she thought it was. Deep inside your inner ear are these special hair cells, cilia, that float in fluid like a field of seaweed. They're tuned to different frequencies. If some of these little hairs are damaged by loud noise or by a virus.

[Roman Mars]

Now that frequency or that range of frequencies that used to be there is not there anymore.

[Gregory Warner]

Dr. Jim Henry is a pioneer of research in tinnitus.

[Roman Mars]

And the brain is in a steady state most of the time, so now it's got this loss.

[Gregory Warner]

The brain, he says, can respond to this loss of hearing by overcompensating, by upping its activity, filling in the missing frequencies like a phantom limb. Tinnitus is the sound of the brain's refusal to let go of what it once had.

[Sid Wood]

Yeah. Yeah, I got my diagnosis, and I.

[Julie Shapiro]

Cried on my way home. I always had in the back of.

[Sid Wood]

My mind, like, yeah, you could be reaching enlightenment or you could just be going deaf. And I just chose to believe in the former.

[Gregory Warner]

She knows now it's a symptom. But still, these days, when she's reading or concentrating on something beautiful, when words.

[Sid Wood]

Turn into images in your mind, the tones come back.

[Gregory Warner]

For her, the tones are still a sign that she's attained some mental quiet. She's paying attention to what is here, even if the sound that she is actually listening to is just the brain's song of grief for what is gone.

[Roman Mars]

So that was the Sound of Silence by Gregory Warner. It's a beautiful piece. And what I love about it in particular is I know Gregory Warner's work from npr. He was a longtime foreign journalist, did Rough Translation, the NPR podcast. And this allows you to get a different side of what he can create.

[Julie Shapiro]

That is so important to us to give we want to give brand new producers an opportunity to do something, but also to give more experienced people the opportunity to do something else than they usually do. And we felt that with Gregory, too. I mean, he is masterful storyteller at all durations, but we really felt like he could get a little more personal with this and bring his signature NPR style to this little flux work. And it's just so beautiful.

[Roman Mars]

Yeah. So let's play another piece. This is from Circuit Number two, and the theme is Listening With Anne. Could you describe this theme and how you came to it?

[Julie Shapiro]

Oh, yeah. We were inspired by the film 32 sounds by the wonderful filmmaker Sam Green. And in that film is a scene with Anaya Lockwood, who's this very accomplished field recordist, sound designer, composer, sound experimentalists. And she has this theory of listening with the world instead of listening to the world or at the world. So we grabbed that theme from Sam's film and invited producers to draw from that theme of listening with as they tell a story and also to think about everyday sounds in their environments.

[Roman Mars]

And so what's this piece that we're going to listen to from this circuit?

[Julie Shapiro]

Well, this piece is actually it's called In Between Silence by the British producer Talia Augustidis. And as Talia thought about the story she wanted to tell, she was thinking about the sounds around her versus the sounds that other people are hearing and are maybe forced to hear. So at the time, the war in Gaza was in full force, and she wanted to think about the situation for people living in Gaza, and there are sonic environments. And so she sort of took on the role of helping people living in that environment talk about what they were hearing on a daily basis.

[Gaza Resident]

We must leave this country and look for another country to live. I always remember how you obtained residency in London how you used to write outside a Buckian palace. I'm looking for something similar in Paris. What do you think? Gaza is over, my friend. And unfortunately, we will not be able to even breathe in it. The drones feel so familiar in Gaza that they've earned a nickname, Zana. It means an annoying buzzing. A buzzing which has been present for over 20 years. A buzzing which becomes near constant during periods of increased violence. A buzzing which represents surveillance and the looming possibility of a missile strike.

You try to just get on with things normally. So you try to make food, you try to kind of watch things on TV that will uplift you. Certain sounds would penetrate that kind of attempt to create normality. And then over time, you become habituated to the sound. But then the level of anxiety that you're experiencing, experiencing can then lead to more paranoia about the meaning of the sound. Your sort of mind kind of thinks, oh, it's slightly different. There was something different about that, but it probably wasn't. It's just an attempt to kind of try to predict the future. Yeah, it's an interesting question whether the periods of silence in Gaza, between bombings or between drones and rockets and so on, was in itself not silenced because it's a foreboding.

There are no sounds of planes. There's a truce, but this truce is only temporary. Only four days. Oh, God, I pray that this truce will better our conditions. I swear, life is beautiful like this without the. The sounds of Zenana.

[Roman Mars]

So that was in between silence and, you know, when you hear this piece together with or next to Gregory Warner's story, you get these two different meditations on silence. What does Talia's story evoke for you?

[Julie Shapiro]

I think one of the miracles of what Audio Flux gets to is that there's so many ways to tell stories. I mean, these were two different circuits with two different starting points, but yet they have in common this idea of silence and some manifestation of silence or lack thereof. And, you know, one thing you find, and what's really fascinating is how sometimes the flux works will talk to each other within a circuit or across circuits. And, you know, ultimately, you know, we've had 300 plus flux works made across the six circuits. And it's just there's such a boundless possibility for storytelling even in this short duration. So you take, you know, two producers who have done a lot of other work, each approaching this three minute challenge or exercise, and, you know, we learn a lot about Talia through how she tells that story. We learn a lot about Gregory through what he reveals about his wife. But you know, they're very different in form, different in style, but I think memorable. Equally memorable, but just for very different reasons.

[Roman Mars]

After the break, Julie and I share a few more Audio Flux stories. Stay tuned. Everywhere you turn, it's New Year, new me. But growth isn't a glow up trend, it's a practice Grow Therapy helps you do the real work with licensed therapists who meet you where you are and not where anyone else says you should be. You can search by what matters like insurance, specialty, identity or availability and get started in as little as two days. And if something comes up, you can Cancel up to 24 hours in advance at no cost. There are no subscriptions, there's no long term contracts, just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Sessions average about $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit GrowTherapy.com invisible today to get started. That's GrowTherapy.com invisible GrowTherapy.com invisible Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan Ready to give your home a stylish refresh? Article makes it easy to create a stylish, long lasting home at an unbeatable price. They offer a curated selection of mid century, modern, coastal and scandi inspired pieces that would make a perfect addition to your home. All article collections are carefully curated, focusing solely on high quality, meaningful pieces that will stand the test of time. And with Article's 30 day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence. When I got my article dining room set about 10 years ago, I got eight Miha chairs to go with it and I knew they were great. But it wasn't until Covid and I was home sitting in those chairs every day, working for hours and hours that I realized just how great they are. And still to this day, my wife Joy is upstairs right right now working at that article Dining Table and Chairs Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit article.com99 and the discount will automatically be applied at checkout. That's article.com 99 for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

[Julie Shapiro]

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[Roman Mars]

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[Julie Shapiro]

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[Julie Shapiro]

All right, so I have another Flux work ready for you. This one is from Circuit four. The theme was Firsts or First Times? Our partner was Jason Reynolds, who had written a young adult novel about a very special first time. And so we drew from that topic and invited people to tell us about first things or first times. And this is the Ghost on side B by Caitlin Halewood and Alan Gifinski.

[Roman Mars]

Okay, I have not heard this one, so let's check it out. We'll talk about it on the other side. It's on the radio now.

[Sid Wood]

It's 2001. I'm 16, maybe 15, and I'm sitting on my bedroom floor in front of my ancient, clunky stereo listening to my CD of the original Broadway cast recording of the 1990s hit musical Rent. I'm always listening to Rent. Broadway stars fill my ears with lyrics of Bohemia. I want to get out of the suburbs and make art and be a lesbian and not wear clothes from Kohl's. I decide that I must record this CD to a tape so I can listen to it in my mom's minivan on the way to school because we don't have a CD player in the car. So I take a blank tape I find in the living room, I put the cassette in my tape deck, I sync it with the start of the cd and I press Record. The next morning, I hop in the passenger seat, I put the tape in the cassette player, and I'm singing along, and it's all bouncy and rent, rent, rent, rent, rent. Then, without warning, the tape skips to the other side, the B side. And a man's voice comes on.

[Roman Mars]

Good morning, 6:09 with Sid Wood. It's gotta be a lot.

[Sid Wood]

And my mother says, where did you get this tape? And I say, what. What is this tape? Did you get this tape from the box in the living room? Who is this man on this tape? And she says, this tape is not a blank tape. This tape is your father. I'd never heard this voice before. Or if I did, I didn't remember. On July 18, 1987, Sid went to work at the country radio station where he was a DJ and then did not come home. I was two. He was 40. It was a heart attack. But here he was, sid wood on country 100, 105 WFMB. Like he'd been hiding in the airwaves all along. Hearing my dad for the first time didn't feel like looking at a photograph. It felt like touch. Tiny spools with reels of magnetic tape coiled into a plastic cassette. This was a portal.

[Roman Mars]

Be radar weather.

[Sid Wood]

There you are. Here I am at a sonic axis of space and time.

[Roman Mars]

Okay, y' all gonna stick around for a little longer or what?

[Sid Wood]

Nice to meet you.

[Roman Mars]

Wow, that is so good.

[Julie Shapiro]

I often have to breathe a little bit after it ends before I can really talk. Yeah, yeah, this one. Well, I'm actually curious. What's your first impression coming out of it?

[Roman Mars]

My first thing is that there's so many hours of my recorded voice in the world. And I think about this a lot with my kids and how I don't have a lot of the previous generation of the sound of their voice or even photographs of them and how much more kids will have and how rare and special this is. To have this thing, especially radio, recorded onto a tape is really something else. I used to record radio onto tape. And so I just find it all very, very kind of magical. And I don't even know if people will understand with the fact that you have a recording device and a documenting device in your pocket at all times these days, how special it is to have the sound of someone's voice and then the pure chance of it all and then the near disaster of. Of losing it all, too, without knowing all of it is just like it's full of emotion for me.

[Julie Shapiro]

Yeah, I can really appreciate that sort of the wonder of it all. Like that. Actually, the stars aligned for her to discover this for Caitlyn. Caitlyn Halewood and Alan Gaffinski made this piece together, and it's really. It's been a crowd favorite. I mean, we love all of the Flux Works equally, but this one, really, people respond to in a certain way. And I think it has to do with some of the things you were talking about, like the power of hearing somebody. And so Caitlin had these recordings, and I think she found a very poetic way to bring us closer to her and the story of discovering her father. And I'm really struck by the different tones and emotions in this piece. It's funny, it's a little mysterious. The sound design by Alan is beautiful. You are immersed in the sound of, like, cassette. And, you know, it's just. It's so familiar to anyone who ever played Gazettes or played with Gazettes growing up. And then that line, a sonic axis of time and place, time and space. I love ending in that sort of place of thinking and wondering and speculating. And, yeah, this piece, I think just the three minutes are perfect. But I will say there's a bigger story here, and they're actually trying to tell the bigger story. So sometimes Flux Works can be like, testing grounds for bigger ideas that people want to dive into. And they're developing a whole show around Caitlin's sort of search to learn more about her father. So it all starts here, but then, you know, it can and does go on from here.

[Roman Mars]

So while we're on this circuit of firsts, let's hear first words. Can you describe this piece?

[Julie Shapiro]

Yeah. One thing I should say is so many of the Flux Works revolve around family relationships. And so this next piece also has to do with fatherhood and language and hearing voice. But it's a very, very different story told in a very different way. So we're gonna hear first words by Peter Lang Stanton. And this is basically a kind of time lapse piece about the first two years of his son's life.

[Peter Lang Stanton]

Let's start with the home movies, the ones my dad made with a camcorder on his shoulder and shorts that were dangerous.

[Julie Shapiro]

Get that stupid camera out of my face.

[Peter Lang Stanton]

Here's another home video. I made this one. Let's do two breaths.

[Lorna Hamilton Brown]

Okay?

[Peter Lang Stanton]

This is the exact moment my son was born.

[Julie Shapiro]

Oh, my goodness. Hello.

[Roman Mars]

Oh, my God.

[Peter Lang Stanton]

These are the first words I said to him.

[Roman Mars]

Hi, sweetie.

[Peter Lang Stanton]

It's also what I say to dogs.

[Gaza Resident]

Hi, sweetie.

[Roman Mars]

Who's a good girl?

[Julie Shapiro]

Who's a Good girl. Anyway, just.

[Peter Lang Stanton]

And this is the first time my son ever used his voice.

[Julie Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Peter Lang Stanton]

But I really had no idea just how long it takes to talk.

[Julie Shapiro]

Make some sounds.

[Sid Wood]

Can I hear you talk.

[Roman Mars]

Tiny ribs?

[Julie Shapiro]

Alvin, do you have anything to say this morning?

[Peter Lang Stanton]

For the longest time we say nothing at all. We have to find workarounds, other ways to communicate. The talking part takes forever.

[Roman Mars]

Alvin, what's my name?

[Peter Lang Stanton]

Imagine a new roommate. But you can't talk to each other for the first two years.

[Roman Mars]

Let's wash your feet.

[Julie Shapiro]

Feet.

[Roman Mars]

Where are your toes?

[Peter Lang Stanton]

The wait is so long.

[Roman Mars]

Right there.

[Peter Lang Stanton]

You worry he'll never be able to talk at all.

[Gregory Warner]

But.

[Peter Lang Stanton]

But then.

[Roman Mars]

The garbage truck said beep, beep, beep, beep. It went right by our house and.

[Julie Shapiro]

It said beep, beep, beep, beep.

[Roman Mars]

That's right.

[Julie Shapiro]

A, B, C, D, E, D. Hey.

[Roman Mars]

Alvin, can you say cracker?

[Julie Shapiro]

Cracker.

[Roman Mars]

Can you say it again? Sorry. Alvin, can you say lawnmower?

[Gaza Resident]

Wow.

[Roman Mars]

Can you say cracker again?

[Julie Shapiro]

No.

[Peter Lang Stanton]

Then all of a sudden you say cracker.

[Julie Shapiro]

Cracker.

[Peter Lang Stanton]

It happens quickly.

[Julie Shapiro]

I have a tracker, please. Old MacDonald had a rash.

[Roman Mars]

Old MacDonald had a rash.

[Julie Shapiro]

Bigger and bigger.

[Peter Lang Stanton]

It happened so fast it breaks your heart.

[Julie Shapiro]

Bigger and bigger.

[Peter Lang Stanton]

And you realize because of your impatience you were missing what was right in front of you.

[Gregory Warner]

What's my name?

[Roman Mars]

Daddy.

[Julie Shapiro]

Daddy. Daddy. Dad. Have tracker, please. Sure, honey.

[Roman Mars]

So this one, like you know, any parent who hears this just kind of loses it.

[Sid Wood]

Yeah.

[Julie Shapiro]

Relatable. I mean, yeah, it's very relatable. For anyone who's lived with kids learning.

[Roman Mars]

Language, you just miss those sounds. There's a lot of stuff that's documented and there's so many pictures. But I really do miss the personalities. There's still something there in my 19 year olds, but expressed through the squeeze box of that tiny little voice. You know what I mean? It's something I miss a lot.

[Julie Shapiro]

And hearing the development, it doesn't seem. It's like sort of when you're in the moment, you don't notice it, but when you hear syllables become words, become emotional utterances, it's so powerful and remarkable and it seems incredible that we learn language at all, but yet we do.

[Roman Mars]

Okay, so there's one more flux work that we want to share here. And this one is from your latest circuit, Circuit Number six. What was the theme for this one?

[Julie Shapiro]

Okay, we just finished Circuit six. The theme was Creative Tension. And our partner in this theme and circuit was Lorna Hamilton Brown, who has become known as the Banksy of Knitting. In the fabric art Circles. Fantastic. So. I know, I know. Well, quite an honor, and she has definitely earned it. Lorna explores all kinds of social justice issues through her art, and her art is mostly knitting, crocheting, working with fabrics. She's also a teacher and an activist and an educator. But we were really lucky to meet her and work with her for this circuit. And so the theme was creative tension, and we asked people to include the sound, like a repetitive sound in their flux work. It is a nod to kind of the repetitive motion of knitting and handiwork. And then we also. I thought this was really fun. Another prompt was to give your story a color, which is, like, really nonsense also, but was very fun to say, like, what color does your story sound like at the end of it? So that was also a nod to kind of the yarn and different colors of yarn and a sort of synesthetic sense that Lorna has when she hears music and thinks of patterns. So those were the prompts and the theme. And the piece we're gonna hear is called Red Card, and the color is red. It's by a couple of producers, Vivian Schutz and Laura Rojas Aponte. And the thing that is really notable to me about this one is as much as Fluxworks can be personal and artistic and talk about big abstract ideas, they can also very clearly document the world around us and things happening now. And they really pulled that off with this piece.

[Roman Mars]

All right, let's hear it. It's called Red Card. The cards, the ones that we make, are about the size of a business.

[Lorna Hamilton Brown]

Card, about 2 inches by 3 inches.

[Roman Mars]

Sort of a heavy piece of red paper. And since January, we've made 110,000 of them.

[Lorna Hamilton Brown]

I tend to carry a stack of cards with me, usually in Spanish, because that's a second language for me. I will hand them to people and say in Spanish, aqui ay infemeracion sobre su estrages constitucionales. This is about your constitutional rights. There's information on what to do with immigration, with the police, with whomever.

[Market Vendor]

He gave us cards week by week that we put on display at the market. Most of the people that would come by take them, especially the Hispanic community and others would actually take it to give to others that they knew. It says, I do not wish to.

[Julie Shapiro]

Speak with you, answer your questions, or.

[Roman Mars]

Sign, hand you any documents based on.

[Julie Shapiro]

My Fifth Amendment rights.

[Market Vendor]

You now have that card on you know what, by law, will protect you.

[Julie Shapiro]

I do not give you permission. I do not give you permission to enter my. To enter my Home.

[Market Vendor]

You come to this country for a better life. Once you are able to apply into the legal status, you then do it. Applying is a very costly process, but my folks, they had applied. If it wasn't for us doing that, we wouldn't be able to be selling flowers in New York City seven days out of the week and put 26 people on payroll because of two people going across the border for their family.

[Roman Mars]

The cards themselves, they're premised on the fact that somebody will read them and obey the law. And at some point, that is not going to be true.

[Activist/Scholar]

You have a red card that it's a piece of cardboard, and the other person has a rifle and handcuffs. We know of many neighbors who, because of all of these efforts, they didn't open the door, and they don't open the door still. And that is one of the reasons why I started to arrest people in the courtrooms. As an academic, as an activist, a scholar, I think that the red card is a beautiful symbol, but at the same time, to me, it is also kind of an index of how tiny, how little, how fragile our rights are. It's like such a little thing, and that the most fundamental rights can be written in a little card like that. It's kind of telling, right?

[Lorna Hamilton Brown]

As a printmaker, what I can do is print something for you. And within my own art, I can tackle issues. I can do these things. But when those things are not effective, I don't know what to do.

[Roman Mars]

I mean, this one is kind of the most 99pi story. It tells a full story of the world that we're in through a small object. I love stories like this.

[Julie Shapiro]

Yeah, and just a couple of those lines that really bring home the situation that we're reading a lot about in the news. Just that personal window into actual people's experience of having the cards and, you know, dispersing them. And we also thought the theme creative tension, for me, was also a moment of reflection as artists and creative people. Like, what do we do in this moment where things around us seem chaotic? And what is an artist's role in this moment? So there's sort of this meta notion of creative tension, which the printmaker elaborates or is very eloquent about talking about what can he do in this moment? So this piece speaks to all of the themes wrapped up in the overarching theme of creative tension.

[Roman Mars]

When I first heard it, I didn't know the audioflux prompt, and I was so struck by the rhythm of the incantation of rights. It's really amazing. Because it's like in speaking them, it's what sort of gives them their power and rights not used, our rights lost. And speaking them keeps them in use. And I just think it's amazing to hear.

[Sid Wood]

Yeah.

[Julie Shapiro]

And speaking them, the people that they are for and are about speaking them. So this is a document that is about community and about all the people, and then you're actually hearing it read by some of these people. So satisfying and it's so powerful.

[Roman Mars]

So, I mean, I hope that we've just blown people's minds in the best way possible. Because, like, I have noticed it too, like in listening to podcasts. I love podcasts. I listen to chatty podcasts. I listen to three hour long podcasts. I've made and contributed to that particular art form. But it was just so nice to remember this period of time in which this kind of creative radio was just part of my life every single day. And so I really, really appreciate this project and what you're doing with pleases me to no end.

[Julie Shapiro]

Oh, thank you. And I have to say, like, there's a lot out there besides audio, and that's what's very exciting about this moment, is there are other independent small projects. There's Signal Hill, there's small audio art, there's in the Dark. There are a lot of people out there who value hearing these and making this kind of work. So we feel like we're part of a bit of a renaissance of audio for the sake of audio and community and culture alongside the podcast industry.

[Roman Mars]

So for people who want to get involved with audioflux, where can they find out more?

[Julie Shapiro]

Our website is the best place to sign up for our email list. We run two circuits a year, and every single person listening to this is very welcome to give it a go and submit to the next circuit, which should be launching at the end of February.

[Roman Mars]

But you do also have a podcast, so could you describe your podcast?

[Julie Shapiro]

Oh, yeah, we have a podcast too. It's not exactly an afterthought, but it is one of the many parts of the project. So, yes, yes, we launched our podcast, the Audioflex podcast, in the fall of last year. It's hosted by the marvelous Amy Pearl and we are walking the walk. These episodes are maybe 10 minutes, 20 at the most, but really we're keeping things short and just inviting people to just revel in what audio can do and celebrate these incredible creators that are, you know, experimenting and sending in their pieces. And yeah, we're having a lot of fun with the podcast. And I hope everyone goes and subscribes for it.

[Roman Mars]

Julie Shapiro, thank you so much for talking with me and thank you so much for Audioflux. I really appreciate it.

[Julie Shapiro]

Oh thanks Roman. And you know you are also welcome to make a Flux Rick anytime you would like to.

[Roman Mars]

I was so inspired listening to them that I really think that this is my, this is my year to get my audio Flux out there. So.

[Julie Shapiro]

Okay, I'm holding you to that. You've basically signed on the dotted line.

[Roman Mars]

If you love these documentary shorts and want to hear really short versions of 99% invisible, the first 25 episodes of this show were all about five minutes or less. You can find those by scrolling way back on our feed or on our website 99pi.org 99% Invisible was produced this week by Jason De Leon, mixed by Martin Gonzalez, music by Swan Rial. Kathy Tu is our executive producer, Kurt Kohlsted is the digital director, Jelanee Holland as our senior editor. The rest of the team includes Chris Berube, Emmett Fitzgerald, Christopher Johnson, Vivian Leigh, Lasha, Madonn, Joe Rosenberg, Kelly Prime, Jacob Medina, Gleason Talyn and Rain Stradley and me, roman Mars. The 99% invisible logo was created by Stefan Lawrence. We are part of the SiriusXM podcast family now headquartered six blocks north in the Pandora building in beautiful uptown Oakland, California. You can find us on all the usual social media sites as well as our own Discord server. There's a link to that as well as every past episode of [e-mail].