99% Invisible: "Get Played with Roman Mars and Ben Brock Johnson" (October 3, 2025)

Episode Overview

This collaborative episode spotlights "Hidden Levels," a new six-part miniseries from 99% Invisible and WBUR's Endless Thread, hosted by Roman Mars and Ben Brock Johnson. The hosts appear on the video game podcast "Get Played" (with hosts Heather Anne Campbell and Matt Apodaca) to discuss how video games have shaped design, culture, socialization, and even physical spaces in the real world—often in subtle, overlooked ways. The conversation covers the genesis of the "Hidden Levels" series, the growing ubiquity of gaming tropes in mainstream culture, design principles manifesting in hardware and interfaces, and the personal connection each guest has to video games.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis and Purpose of "Hidden Levels"

[03:07-05:47]

• Ben Brock Johnson explains the miniseries originated from noticing how video games influence the world beyond the screen, often unnoticed by non-gamers but obvious to those immersed in gaming culture.
• The show aims to reveal how gaming ideas, language, and hardware have permeated everyday life and design—mirroring the ethos of 99% Invisible, which uncovers the stories behind common yet ignored design elements.
• Roman Mars: “Video games are just ripe for this because of the way that they've infiltrated real life and... communicate. It's huge and rich.” (05:00)

2. The Connectedness of Series Topics

[05:47-07:07]

• Each episode focuses on a different aspect (e.g., sports games and hardware design), but the thread of influence and cross-pollination between physical and digital worlds ties them together.
• Ben: “We have an episode about a very famous sports game... and that leads into a story... about the hardware that we use to control these games and how that hardware has itself influenced all these other parts of the world.” (06:01)

3. Ubiquity of Video Game Vocabulary

[04:17-05:00]

• Heather Anne Campbell reflects on how terms like “level up” moved from niche gaming slang to advertising catchphrases—evidence of gaming culture's deep cultural penetration.
• “These are just... permafrost on reality now.” (04:54)

4. The Design of Game Controllers and Real World Affordance

[07:07-10:14, 10:48-12:52]

• The discussion explores joysticks as a prime example of hardware ‘affordance’—their function is communicated by their design.
• Roman Mars: “A joystick has an extremely just grokkable affordance. Like, you know that when you want to go up, you push up.” (10:48)
• The design of controllers feeds back into the physical world: from planes to digital spaces and back into real-world machinery.
• Flight simulators make digital skills transferable to real-life flying, as illustrated by Heather’s personal story of piloting a plane after playing Microsoft Flight Simulator. (08:07)

5. Translation & Evolution of Design Language

[13:14-17:51]

• The group debates why some real-world objects signal their uses well (e.g., joysticks), while others (e.g., carrot peelers, toilets, smart home switches) do not.
• Roman Mars: “When you've lived in a house for maybe 20 years and you still don't know which knob goes to which burner on your stove... that's a type of weird, bad design.” (15:53)
• Skeuomorphism's transitional usefulness is acknowledged, but digital-first design is increasingly replacing relics of physical analogies.

6. Game Literacy, Conventions, and Legacy Design

[17:51-21:13]

• Modern games communicate much more directly—tutorial prompts and standardized controls—whereas early games required players to “learn the language.”
• Vestigial conventions remain: searching barrels for ammo, punching trash cans for health, persistent even in modern, realistic games like "The Last of Us Part II."
• Heather: "All of that legacy has then gone all the way to effectively Last of Us Part II, where you're smashing in the environment to try and find ammunition for your character." (20:48)

7. Personal Histories with Gaming

[25:07-31:45]

• Ben values gaming now as a way to maintain social bonds with distant friends—less “the grind...more about talking to each other...group therapy sessions.” (26:11)
• Roman admits he’s a 'lapsed' or passive gamer, favoring tower defense and VR fitness games—activities that mesh with his work routine and need to stay physically active.
• Roman reveals previously unknown "lore": he was an early QA tester for Roger Wilco, the first gaming voice chat software, which led (via the proceeds of its sale) to his entry into public radio:
  • “Selling that company...paid for my three-year internship in public radio that led me into being a podcaster.” (28:31)
• Roman’s multiplayer heyday: Sniping on the "Tribes" renegade mod, with a reputation so fierce he had to use aliases to not scare off opponents. (29:37)

8. Gaming Memories and Sensory Nostalgia

[35:46-40:25]

• The hosts and guests share jobs that allowed for sneaky gaming and how those moments (e.g., playing "Breath of the Wild" during restaurant downtime) become lasting, pleasant memories.
• Ben recalls Battletoads as a touchstone of childhood challenge and frustration: “That's one of those games that has like a sense memory for me... sweat of trying to get past that level.” (40:04)

9. Video Games’ Social Impact: Good or Bad?

[41:23-46:01]

• Ben: Games can foster problem-solving, creativity, learning, and offer relatively democratized entertainment. But addiction and toxic online cultures are very real risks—so the good or bad is dictated by how intentionally they are used and managed. (44:21)
• Roman: “I also just think that you can't sort of argue that the world would be a better or worse place without video games... it would be a completely different world.” (45:07)
• Both agree design and digital literacy acquired through gaming are valuable life skills.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Roman Mars on design and immersion:
  “...every pixel inside of a video game... is thought of. And because of that, there's so many avenues to explore because everyone made a decision about every pixel... you don't necessarily have to feel the author. You just feel immersed.” [12:39]
• Ben Brock Johnson, on gaming as social glue:
  “We've basically had group therapy sessions... talking to each other as we've gone through life challenges. And...it's really less about the grind and more about talking to each other.” [26:11]
• Heather Anne Campbell on gaming languages:
  “Now you will see video game language on, like, a billboard. You'll see things that say, like, level up your workout. And leveling up was once a thing that was in an instruction booklet for Super Mario Bros...now...they're sort of like permafrost on reality now.” [04:54]
• Roman Mars reveals his gaming past:
  “I was the first QA tester for the company [Roger Wilco]...selling that company is what paid for my three year internship in public radio that led me into being a podcaster.” [28:31]
• Roman Mars on design failures in daily life:
  “When you've lived in a house for maybe 20 years and you still don't know which knob goes to which burner on your stove... that's a type of weird, bad design.... we take those things on as 'I'm so dumb I can't remember,' but really, those are bad design decisions.” [15:53]
• Battletoads nostalgia:
  "That's one of those games that has like a sense memory for me where I just, I can remember the Doritos dust on my fingertips and the sweat of like trying to get past that level." —Ben [40:04]
• On games and the modern world:
  “It kind of trains you to think in ways that...are perfect for the modern world in terms of problem solving...and complex decisions.” —Roman Mars [45:42]

Important Timestamps

• 03:07 — Ben describes the conception of "Hidden Levels"
• 04:54 — Heather on gaming language becoming cultural “permafrost”
• 07:34 — Roman hints at the role of real-world machines (e.g., joysticks, planes) in gaming
• 10:48 — Roman discusses "affordance" via game controller design
• 15:53 — Roman critiques "bad design" in everyday household interfaces
• 20:48 — Heather traces game design conventions from arcades to modern games
• 28:31 — Roman shares how his early QA job and the voice chat tool sale funded his public radio career
• 29:37 — Roman’s "Tribes" sniper legend
• 40:04 — Ben’s “Battletoads” sense memory
• 44:21 — Ben on the pros/cons of games in society
• 45:42 — Roman on games teaching modern skills

Tone & Style

Throughout, the conversation blends 99% Invisible’s trademark curiosity and reflective design analysis with Get Played’s playful, irreverent humor and deep gaming knowledge. Hosts joke about AI-hosting, make references to old and new games, and infuse personal anecdotes with genuine insight into the enduring cultural relevance of video games.

Closing

The episode encourages listeners to check out "Hidden Levels" (launching October 7th, 2025), promising a deep dive into the invisible ways video games shape our everyday world—one carefully designed element at a time.