99% Invisible – “How to Write a Joke”

Host: Roman Mars
Guest: Elliot Kalan
Date: November 11, 2025

Episode Theme

This episode explores the craft of joke writing as a structured, design-driven process. Host Roman Mars interviews comedy writer Elliot Kalan, discussing Kalan’s new book “Joke Farming: How to Write Comedy and Other Nonsense.” They delve into the difference between “being funny” and producing comedy professionally, the mechanics of joke construction, and the responsibilities and power embedded in jokes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. From Being Funny to Professional Joke Writing

• Motivation to Write Jokes for a Living
  • Kalan describes how growing up watching an abundance of standup on TV made comedy feel “doable” as a career (02:33).
  • “The great thing about writing jokes for a living is...no one can tell you not to do it.” – Elliot Kalan (02:33)
• The Daily Show and the Need for Systems
  • Roman Mars notes that natural funniness isn’t enough for a job like The Daily Show, where jokes must be produced on a deadline (03:21).
  • Kalan explains the “joke farming” approach: a systematic way to reliably generate jokes regardless of inspiration (03:50).
  • “I need to free myself from being chained to inspiration.” – Elliot Kalan (05:16)

2. The Joke Farming Process

• Components of Joke Farming
  • Identity: Who is telling the joke? What’s their voice? (06:52)
  • Point: What message or meaning is the joke aiming to convey?
  • Premise: The scenario or concept wrapping the point (“What if John Kerry loves French things so much that as long as the word French is in there, he loves it?” – 09:21)
  • Structure: How information is released, setting up expectations and subverting them.
  • Heightening: Building from the least to most exaggerated example for comedic effect (10:54).
• Detailed Example: Building a John Kerry Joke on The Daily Show
  • Kalan walks through creating a joke about John Kerry's visit to France (06:52–11:46):
    “Favorite type of fries? French. Favorite type of bulldog? French... Favorite mustard? Heinz. Come on, he’s not going to jeopardize his marriage over mustard.” – Elliot Kalan (10:32-11:46)
  • Shows how structure and subverting patterns delivers the punchline.

3. Examples of Classic Joke Structures

• Setup and Punchline
  • Rita Rudner’s “He wanted to get married, and I didn’t want him to” is cited as a model of conciseness and subversion (12:11–13:47).
  • “The fewer number of words you can use to deliver a joke, the better.” – Elliot Kalan (13:18)
• Tone and Persona
  • Tone management is essential: Don Rickles uses over-the-top hostility, while Steven Wright is deadpan – the delivery totally shifts how the joke lands (14:32–15:41).

4. The Role of Audience

• Comedian’s Persona Shapes Joke Reception
  • Charlie Hill’s jokes as an Oneida Nation comic are effective because of the persona and context (15:49–17:10).
• Audience as Final Arbiter
  • “The audience provides the most important part of the joke: the person laughing at the joke.” – Elliot Kalan (17:17)
  • The desire for the audience to laugh motivates, but sometimes it’s used to challenge or even antagonize (e.g., Andy Kaufman, 18:30–19:34).
  • The relationship can be playful or adversarial—bombing can be its own hidden joke among comedians.

5. Audience Feedback and Iteration

• Learning from Real Feedback
  • Kalan shares how too many jokes in Mystery Science Theater 3000 led to overwhelming the audience:
    “There’s too many jokes in this show...I don’t have time to process each joke before the next one comes.” (20:14–21:36)
  • He earned the nickname “joke killer” for refining scripts so the best jokes could shine.

6. Joke Writing as Engineering vs. Inspiration

• “Joke Farming” as Process
  • Not all comedy writers want to think systematically; some fear dissecting the process will destroy it (“explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog: it’s not good for the frog” – 25:33).
  • Even legendary comics like Jerry Seinfeld and Joan Rivers treat it as a craft with daily discipline and structure (27:02–27:28).
  • “There’s an attempt to work very hard at something and then make it look as if no work has been put into it.” – Elliot Kalan (28:10)

7. Using Joke Craft for Good or Evil

• Persuasive (or Destructive) Power of Comedy

  • Jokes can reinforce harmful ideas when used to “punch down” (28:28).
  • “Just because it’s funny doesn’t mean it’s right.” – Elliot Kalan (28:28)
  • Even political figures can wield humor for influence—Donald Trump’s “I wouldn’t be in Cleveland if I didn’t need your vote” is highlighted as effective (28:28–29:39).

• The Reflexive Power of Pattern and Expectation

  • Roman Mars recounts unintentionally laughing at a serious topic due to the pattern of setup and punchline being too strong to resist, sparking both introspection and listener feedback (29:51–31:32).
  • “I was definitely not making fun of Aleppo...it was a joke setup almost.” – Roman Mars (30:48–31:32)
  • Kalan: “The audience is ultimately the decider...It’s a sense of humor, not a science of humor.” (31:32)

8. What Non-Comedy Writers Can Learn

• Behind the Curtain of Comedy
  • Kalan hopes readers of his book will laugh and gain a deeper appreciation for the intentional craft that underlies great comedy (32:24–34:03).
  • “Anything you’re saying is in order to connect from one person to another person...” (33:40)
  • Comedy is about sharing risk and connection, with the outcome never fully known until delivered.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Professionalism:
  • “The difference between being a funny person and being a comedy professional is...to be funny on demand, in a professional manner when it needs to be done.” – Elliot Kalan (03:50)
• On Joke Construction:
  • “Structure is literally the mechanical construction of the joke: how you release each piece of information...” – Elliot Kalan (09:46)
• On the Role of the Audience:
  • “You can’t tell a joke on your own. The audience...provides the person laughing at the joke.” – Elliot Kalan (17:17)
• On Comedy as Craft:
  • “There’s an attempt to work very hard at something and then make it look as if no work has been put into it.” – Elliot Kalan (28:10)
• On Power and Responsibility:
  • “Joke writing, joke telling—it’s just a tool...It can embody terrible things and still be an example of craft.” – Elliot Kalan (29:39)
• On Appreciation:
  • “A lot of work went into that, a lot of craft went into that...Now I have a greater appreciation for the people who did it.” – Elliot Kalan (33:09)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction & Elliot Kalan’s Background — 00:00–03:21
• Joke Farming Process Explained — 03:21–06:07
• Detailed John Kerry Joke Example — 06:39–11:46
• Rita Rudner and Setup/Punchline Structure — 12:11–13:47
• Tone & Persona in Comedy — 13:58–16:12
• Audience’s Role in Comedy — 17:10–19:34
• Learning from Audience Feedback (MST3K) — 20:14–21:36
• The Reluctance of Comedy Writers to Dissect Their Craft — 25:33–28:10
• Joke Writing for Harm or Manipulation — 28:21–29:39
• The Aleppo Story—Pattern-Driven Laughter — 29:51–31:32
• What Everyday Listeners Can Learn — 32:24–34:03

Tone & Style

The conversation is lively, humorous, and insightful, blending technical analysis with practical examples and personal anecdotes. Kalan and Mars maintain a conversational, lightly self-deprecating style, with both banter and genuine warmth.

Final Takeaways

• Joke writing is both an art and a deliberate process.
• Structure, subversion, and timing are at the heart of effective comedy.
• The audience is the final, crucial co-creator in comedy.
• Even the best comedians treat humor as a craft—not only as inspiration.
• The power of joke structure can be used for connection or harm; awareness and intent matter.

For more, check out Elliot Kalan’s book “Joke Farming: How to Write Comedy and Other Nonsense.”