99% Invisible – "Murderland"

Host: Roman Mars
Guest: Caroline Fraser
Release Date: November 25, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores Caroline Fraser's new book, Murderland: Crime and Bloodlust in a Time of Serial Killers, which weaves together memoir, true crime, environmental history, and design. Roman Mars and Fraser discuss her provocative thesis: the environmental pollution of the Pacific Northwest—specifically from the Asarco smelting company—may have contributed to the region’s notorious serial killer boom in the 1970s and 80s. The episode examines how industrial toxins, the built environment (like the infamously hazardous Mercer Island Floating Bridge), and societal choices intersect with violence and our sense of safety.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Caroline Fraser’s Connection to the Pacific Northwest

• Fraser grew up on Mercer Island, surrounded by the beauty of Washington state, yet haunted by frequent local deaths—murders, suicides, and car accidents ([00:00]–[01:46]).
• Early trauma: proximity to Ted Bundy’s first confirmed murders and a neighbor’s deadly domestic explosion affected her outlook ([01:33]).
• Fraser reflects:
  “It was just this horrific and inexplicable thing, which I think just stayed with me because I didn't understand it.” ([01:33]–[01:46], Fraser)

Environmental Toxins and Crime: A Radical Connection

• 1970s–80s: The region was saturated by pollutants from mining/smelting operations, especially the Asarco plant in Tacoma ([01:46]–[03:14]).

• Fraser's thesis: Could environmental pollution, especially lead, be partly responsible for the era’s wave of serial killings?

• The pollution "cloud" (lead, arsenic, asbestos) quite literally hovered over the area ([01:46]–[02:50]).

  “There were so many [serial killers]. And I just thought, wow, that's really bizarre... just a list that just went on and on. It just cried out for some kind of explanation.” ([02:50], Fraser)

Murderland as Trojan Horse for Environmental History

• Fraser admits her books use unexpected lenses (biographies, crime) to explore the environment:
  “People have used the term Trojan horse, you know, that I'm using serial killers to sell an environmental story or something...” ([03:59], Fraser)
• She describes her heightened awareness of environmental manipulation and vulnerability—most people feel safe in their surroundings, but should they? ([03:59]–[04:36]).

The Role of Place, Design, and Infrastructure

• Mars notes that design decisions—industrial siting, bridge engineering—shape not just landscapes but destinies ([04:36]).
• Fraser’s book’s rotating list of “villains”: Asarco (corporate pollution), the Mercer Island Floating Bridge (deadly design choices), Pacific Northwest serial killers ([04:36]–[05:35]).

The Spark: Maps and the Pollution Plume

• The book was inspired by a Washington State GIS map showing the reach of Asarco’s pollution—Fraser realized she could overlay sites of serial killings, upbringing, and toxic exposure ([06:04]–[07:02]).
• A real estate ad requiring “arsenic remediation” on Vashon Island led her down the research rabbit hole ([07:11]–[08:50]).

Serial Killers and Toxic Childhoods

• Fraser's fascination with serial killers began with Ted Bundy’s 1974 Lake Sammamish abductions ([09:22]).
• The public’s lack of awareness then:
  “The idea that there was somebody out there plucking women out of their dorm rooms or... off of streets and they just vanished was just profoundly strange and frightening.” ([09:22]–[11:03], Fraser)
• Mars praises the book’s cover: Bundy’s face merging with Asarco’s toxic plume, visually representing intertwined histories ([11:03]).

The Lead–Crime Theory

• The lead hypothesis: Childhood exposure to lead correlates with higher rates of violence and impulse control problems decades later ([11:38]–[13:04]).
• Bundy and Gary Ridgway both grew up near Asarco’s toxic fallout ([11:38]–[15:43]).
• The Tacoma area, due to industrial emissions and adjacent highways (and, at the time, leaded gasoline), was particularly toxic—making the cluster of serial offenders potentially more than coincidence ([13:46]–[15:43]).

Complexity: Crime, Environment, Social Factors

• Fraser notes there are multiple factors in violent crime: genetics, head trauma, domestic abuse, poverty, etc.—environmental toxins are only one piece ([16:13]–[18:15]).
• She draws a provocative parallel between the amoral behavior of polluting companies and serial killers:
  “The behavior of the companies eventually came to me to sort of mirror the behavior of the serial killers in a way that I thought was important and worth paying attention to.” ([16:13]–[18:15], Fraser)
• Notable quote on corporate callousness:
  “They actually did have conversations about how much they were going to have to pay the families of the kids who were lead poisoned... They weren't questioning their behavior in any way. They were just simply saying, well, you know, if it costs us $11 million per kid, we can still make a profit.” ([18:24], Fraser)

Design Catastrophes: The Mercer Island Floating Bridge

• The bridge features heavily in the book—as both metaphor and literal killer ([24:21]–[24:33]).
• Unusual and hazardous design (the “bulge” and reversible lanes) led to dozens of fatalities and persistent accidents ([24:33]–[25:58], [26:27]).
• Mars praises the bridge as a symbol of engineering hubris: a marvel that was deadly by design ([25:58]).
• Fraser describes the newsroom pushback and family silence:
  “The editor... began featuring photographs of these terrible crashes... which is why the newspaper got banned in my house... The fact that we couldn’t talk about them made them all the more interesting to me.” ([26:43], Fraser)

Endings: Industrial Fallout, Bridge Collapse, Decline in Crime

• The floating bridge’s dangerous “bulge” was removed in the 1980s, and then it famously sank after a storm in 1989/90 ([27:57]–[28:22]).
• The Asarco plant closed in 1986; environmental law made operations unprofitable, leading to site shut-downs across the West ([28:26]–[29:37]).
• The removal of leaded gasoline and closure of smelters correlates with a sharp decline in violence and serial murders by the late 90s ([29:53]).
• Fraser:
  “There’s a rise in violent crime... and then with the completion of this movement to close smelters and remove leaded gas... you start to see violent crime drop off a cliff in the United States and other developed economies around the world.” ([29:53], Fraser)

Reflections on Closure and Curiosity

• Fraser is circumspect about having “cracked the code,” but finds meaning in uncovering overlooked connections ([30:24]–[31:06]).
• Mars:
  “If we can’t come to any definitive, provable conclusion about serial killers... Do you feel like there’s some kind of closure there?” ([31:06])
• Fraser:
  “I think in some ways, yes. The urge to know more about serial killers, I think, is not there anymore. I think I’ve spent enough time with the serial killers.” ([31:29], Fraser)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “People have used the term Trojan horse... that I'm using serial killers to sell an environmental story or something, which I think is maybe a little too programmatic... You know, we think we’re safe in the environment that we have created. When I think that's not true at all.”
  – Caroline Fraser ([03:59])

• “The behavior of the companies eventually came to me to sort of mirror the behavior of the serial killers in a way that I thought was important and worth paying attention to.”
  – Caroline Fraser ([16:13]–[18:15])

• “They actually did have conversations about how much they were going to have to pay the families of the kids who were lead poisoned... They weren't questioning their behavior in any way. They were just simply saying, well, you know, if it costs us $11 million per kid, we can still make a profit.”
  – Caroline Fraser ([18:24])

• “There’s a rise in violent crime... and then with the completion of this movement to close smelters and remove leaded gas... you start to see violent crime drop off a cliff in the United States and other developed economies around the world.”
  – Caroline Fraser ([29:53])

• “The urge to know more about serial killers, I think is not there anymore. I think I’ve spent enough time with the serial killers.”
  – Caroline Fraser ([31:29])

Important Timestamps

• 01:33 – Caroline Fraser’s memories of death and violence on Mercer Island
• 02:50 – Fraser’s shock at the Seattle region’s list of serial killers
• 03:59 – Trojan horse concept: serial killers as a lens on environmental history
• 06:04 – GIS pollution map reveals the environment-crime connection
• 09:22 – Bundy’s 1974 abductions spark Fraser’s lifelong interest
• 11:38 – Discussion of lead exposure as a factor in violence
• 16:13 – On the complexity and corporate malfeasance paralleling criminal psychopathy
• 24:21 – Mercer Island Floating Bridge: why it became a “character” in the book
• 26:43 – The taboo and memory of recurring traffic deaths
• 27:57 – The literal and metaphorical collapse of unsafe infrastructure
• 29:53 – Correlation between lead removal and crime drop
• 31:29 – Fraser on personal closure after years researching serial killers

Tone & Style

• The conversation is deeply thoughtful, analytical, and personal, blending Fraser’s reflective, often somber reminiscences with Mars’s clear, evidence-based interviewing.
• Fraser’s tone is measured and nuanced, never sensationalizing: her interest is in systems, histories, and overlooked causes—“the 99% invisible."
• The episode balances dark subject matter with careful attention, complexity, and a dose of dark irony about the unintended consequences of design.

Summary for New Listeners

“Murderland” is an episode that challenges listeners to rethink the boundaries between crime, design, and environmental history. Roman Mars and Caroline Fraser trace haunting lines between the literal poison in the land, the bodies it touched, and the chronic social violence that plagued the Pacific Northwest. Through the infamous Asarco smokestack, a perilous floating bridge, and notorious serial killers, Fraser shows how our environments—their dangers hidden in plain sight—shape even the darkest chapters of our culture. The episode is compelling for anyone interested in the impact of design, the hidden costs of progress, and the mysteries of human violence.