Spirit Halloween

Summary

99% Invisible: Spirit Halloween

Episode Release Date: October 22, 2024
Host: Roman Mars
Producer: Chris Berube

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Introduction to Spirit Halloween

The episode opens with Roman Mars introducing a transformed space at Spadina and King Street in downtown Toronto. Formerly a bustling liquor store spanning 11,000 square feet, the location became markedly different after the store relocated in 2019. Since then, the vast area has remained mostly vacant, except for a notable seasonal presence.

Chris Berube reflects on the transition:

"[...], but it's only empty for about nine months out of the year because every fall, just like clockwork, the space has been possessed by a spirit. By a spirit. Halloween." ([01:49])

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The Emergence and Evolution of Spirit Halloween

Spirit Halloween has become a ubiquitous fixture across the U.S. and Canada, characterized by its vibrant orange, yellow, and black signage that pops up in approximately 1,500 locations each August and tears down by November. The concept is straightforward: a pop-up store stocking an extensive range of Halloween merchandise, from costumes and decorations to animatronics.

Chris Berube delves into his initial skepticism:

"For a long time I wondered, okay, what is going to move in there? [...] And I gotta say, when I finally took the plunge last fall, it was pretty much that." ([01:49])

Despite his reservations about the chaotic atmosphere, Berube acknowledges the widespread enthusiasm for Spirit Halloween.

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Founding Spirit Halloween: Joe Marver’s Vision

The story traces back to Joe Marver, the founder of Spirit Halloween, who launched the venture in 1983. Contrary to expectations of a Halloween enthusiast's origin, Marver’s childhood was devoid of bat-related experiences. His pivotal moment occurred when his women's apparel outlet in California struggled during October—a non-peak month for that merchandise.

Faced with dwindling sales and nearby competition from a dancewear shop selling costumes, Marver pivoted his business model:

"That October, Joe completely changed his business for one month only. And Spirit Discount Women's Apparel became Spirit Halloween." ([08:25])

This seasonal transformation was an immediate success, leading to significant revenue growth and the expansion of multiple stores.

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Spirit Halloween’s Real Estate Strategy

A cornerstone of Spirit Halloween’s success lies in its strategic acquisition of vacant big-box storefronts, especially those abandoned by the retail downturn—a phenomenon often referred to as the "retail apocalypse." Mike Olson, who started working with Spirit in the '80s, elaborates on the pragmatic yet creative approach the company took:

"We've cleaned more floors, replaced more light bulbs, and fixed more HVAC units across the country than I would think any other retailer at this point." ([13:26])

Spirit’s focus on large, empty retail spaces—typically over 10,000 square feet and often situated near other popular stores—ensures high visibility and foot traffic. Their readiness to pay above-market rates for short-term leases, combined with the adaptability to repurpose unconventional spaces like old banks or defunct churches, has solidified their dominance.

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Corporate Expansion and Brand Evolution

In 1998, after 16 years of independent operations, Joe Marver sold Spirit Halloween to Spencer Gifts, a well-known retail chain specializing in novelty items. Under corporate ownership, Spirit expanded exponentially from 65 to 1,500 stores nationwide. This growth also marked a shift from off-brand, generic costumes to officially licensed apparel featuring characters from Disney, Marvel, and popular horror franchises.

Chris Berube observes:

"Under corporate ownership, Spirit has gone from 65 stores to 1500." ([15:54])

Despite corporate backing, the essence of Spirit Halloween remains its temporary, seasonal presence, retaining the signature tarp logos and pegboard displays.

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Criticisms and Urban Planning Concerns

Notwithstanding its commercial success, Spirit Halloween faces criticism from urban policy advocates. Rachel Quedno from Strong Towns highlights concerns about the implications of Spirit’s real estate strategies on urban development:

"If our cities are thinking about, like, what is a long term benefit for us financially for our residents, then we shouldn't be thinking about pursuing, you know, really short term massive businesses like this." ([18:46])

Quedno argues that Spirit is symptomatic of broader issues in retail real estate and suburban planning, suggesting that the abundance of vacant big-box stores invites such temporary operations, which may not contribute positively to long-term urban sustainability.

Jackie, a YouTuber who covers Halloween trends, adds:

"Honestly, for, like, all the huge big box stores that are now sitting vacant. I think the best case scenario is to knock them down, let them return to the earth..." ([19:30])

---

Halloween Trends: The Rise of the Giant Skeleton

Transitioning from Spirit Halloween’s narrative, the episode explores another Halloween phenomenon—the 12-foot plastic skeleton offered by Home Depot. Introduced during the 2020 pandemic, these oversized decorations quickly became a cultural staple, often appearing ubiquitously across neighborhoods and garnering significant online attention.

Chris Berube recounts the product’s debut:

"In 2020 first, Halloween of the pandemic, [...] it's a 12 foot plastic skeleton you can put in your yard with light up eyes. [...] they sold out immediately." ([27:13])

The skeletons have sparked both enthusiasm and logistical challenges for homeowners. Bobby Lord, a podcasting colleague, shares his experience of receiving one as a wedding gift:

"When you guys bought the skeleton for us, it arrived in the most hilarious box [...] It was like, you know, cardboard is like pretty, pretty strong material, especially when it's that big." ([30:07])

Lord discusses the practical aspects of maintaining such a large decoration, including storage and seasonal modifications, as well as the peculiarity of their neighborhood’s reception.

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Cultural Impact and Social Dynamics

Despite initial fears of becoming neighborhood attractions, Lord notes an unexpected outcome:

"I naively thought [...] We're gonna have like a Google map. People will be coming from miles around [...] But actually, it's too popular, it's too mainstream." ([33:26])

This shift illustrates a broader trend where unique or extravagant Halloween decorations become quickly normalized, leading to an "arms race" for more elaborate displays.

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Conclusion: Spirit Halloween’s Role in Retail and Culture

The episode concludes by reflecting on Spirit Halloween’s influential role in reshaping retail spaces and embedding itself into Halloween traditions. By capitalizing on vacant big-box stores and marrying them with the festive spirit of Halloween, Spirit has not only thrived commercially but also influenced seasonal decorations and consumer behavior.

Chris Berube offers a final analogy:

"I think Spirit is more like a hermit crab. It finds these different shells and it discards them as it goes along." ([21:51])

Roman Mars wraps up by acknowledging the deep-rooted presence of Spirit Halloween in contemporary culture, highlighting its dual impact on both the retail landscape and the communal celebration of Halloween.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Chris Berube on initial space vacancy:
  "[...] the space has been possessed by a spirit. By a spirit. Halloween." ([01:49])

• Joe Marver on transforming the business:
  "That October, Joe completely changed his business for one month only. And Spirit Discount Women's Apparel became Spirit Halloween." ([08:25])

• Mike Olson on cleaning and maintaining stores:
  "We've cleaned more floors, replaced more light bulbs, and fixed more HVAC units across the country than I would think any other retailer at this point." ([13:26])

• Rachel Quedno on urban planning:
  "If our cities are thinking about, like, what is a long term benefit for us financially for our residents, then we shouldn't be thinking about pursuing, you know, really short term massive businesses like this." ([18:46])

• Chris Berube on the skeleton’s popularity:
  "In 2020 first, Halloween of the pandemic, [...] they sold out immediately." ([27:13])

---

Credits:
Produced by Chris Berube and Jacob Murdernado Medina. Edited by Skellington Prime Mix and edited by Marscream Gonzalez. Music by Swan Real Monsters. Fact Checking by Skaara Bullins. Executive Producer: Kathy Boo. Senior Editor: Delaney Halloween. Digital Director: Kurt Goulstead. Intern: Taylor Shrederick. Special Thanks to Katie Klein, Ben Frisch, and Katie Thomas.

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For more episodes, visit 99percentinvisible.org.

Transcript

[Roman Mars]

Apple Card is the perfect card for your holiday shopping. When you use Apple Card on your iPhone, you'll earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, including products at Apple like a new iPhone 16 or Apple Watch Ultra. Apply now in the Wallet app on your iPhone Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. Some things should be boring, like banking. Boring is safe and reliable. You don't want your bank to be surprising. Surprising is for podcasts about seemingly insignificant inventions that impact our lives, not banks. PNC bank strives to be boring with your money so you can be happily fulfilled with your life. PNC Bank Brilliantly boring since 1865 Brilliantly boring since 1865 is a service mark of the PNC Financial Services Group, Inc. PNC bank national association member FDIC this is 99% invisible I'm Roman Mars. There's a storefront at a major intersection in downtown Toronto at Spadina and King Street. The space is about 11,000 square feet and it used to house a massive liquor store right in the middle of Canada's biggest city.

[Chris Berube]

For years I worked down the street and let me tell you, that liquor store was bumpin'that's.

[Roman Mars]

Producer Chris Berube.

[Chris Berube]

I remember lines out the door before holidays and setting aside a whole lunch hour just to get a bottle of wine.

[Roman Mars]

But in 2019, the liquor store moved to a new, bigger location close by and the shop at Spadina and King closed. Since then all 11,000 square feet have been empty.

[Chris Berube]

For a long time I wondered, okay, what is going to move in there? I mean this is a big time space right downtown. But in 2019 it sat empty. 2020 still empty 2021 empty 2022. Okay, you get the point. But it's only empty for about nine months out of the year because every fall, just like clockwork, the space has been possessed by a spirit. By a spirit. Halloween.

[Roman Mars]

If you live in the US or Canada, you have probably seen the orange, yellow and black Spirit Halloween signs. They go up sometime in August in 1500 empty storefronts and by early November all of them disappear.

[Chris Berube]

Spirit Halloween has become something of an institution. If you aren't familiar, I mean it's pretty simple. It's a pop up store full of Halloween stuff. They sell Halloween masks, Halloween costumes, Halloween costumes for dogs, Halloween decorations, creepy robots, and several different kinds of fake blood. And it's successful spirit reportedly sells about a billion dollars worth of Merchandise Every year for a long time I resisted going to spirit because, I don't know, it just seemed like a lot of loud noises and crowds and children running around. And I gotta say, when I finally took the plunge last fall, it was pretty much that. Okay, I'm passing through a crypt. Looks like it's set up to look like a crypt. It's just full of those electric candles that kind of look like fire. After passing through rows of plastic gravestones and being yelled at by a terrifying animatronic clown, I discovered this one blue jumpsuit costume that severely creep me out. I see an avatar, which honestly is very disturbing. I can't imagine dressing a child like this. I don't like it. Overall, I'd say the experience wasn't really for me. But I know that my opinion is in the minority here because there are a ton of people who are obsessed with spirit Halloween.

[Jackie]

Today is a very special day, my friends, because today is the day that my local spring spirit Halloween store has opened. And we are here right in front of it, about to go in. I'm going to give you a full tour of this year's theme.

[Chris Berube]

Animatronic.

[Roman Mars]

There are countless YouTube videos from creators who treat the first day of the spirit calendar like a high holy day. Walking through the aisles of a freshly opened store and exploring the new products.

[Chris Berube]

I love this guy.

[Jackie]

My name is Jackie and I have a YouTube channel called super enthused.

[Chris Berube]

Jackie's videos of spirit Halloween walkthroughs have garnered hundreds of thousands of views. Jackie says the reason spirit has developed a following is the way they've tried to make the store itself feel like a haunted house.

[Jackie]

One thing I found, like the first thing that hit me was that spirit kind of let you play with things. They let you stomp on the floor and activate the animatronics and almost all the others, especially as like a younger person, a kid, a teenager. No, no, no, don't touch, don't touch that. Don't open that.

[Chris Berube]

Don't.

[Jackie]

You can't touch anything. You can't play with anything. They're watching you like a hawk, like if you're going to steal the whole store. But Spirit's like, come in, touch everything, play with all the things.

[Roman Mars]

Spirit's haunted house energy is a big part of the draw, but there's also an element of scarcity. Because the real hallmark of spirit Halloween is that it's only open roughly three months out of the year.

[Chris Berube]

Spirit Halloween has zero permanent year round locations. And inside these pop up stores, there's an overwhelming feeling that everything won't be around for long. The thing that's interesting is that even the walls look temporary. Like, the walls up here look really thin. They almost look like cardboard walls that have been put up here. Is what I do not get about spirit Halloween. The last few years have been considered this kind of retail apocalypse, with lots of brick and mortar chains closing their physical locations. A lot of those retailers have just left empty storefronts across the country. So what does it say about the world of retail that a seasonal Halloween store is taking all these abandoned spaces for three months a year and making a killing in the process? To understand how spirit became ubiquitous, I called up the guy who started it, Joe Marver, open spirit in 1983. And I'll admit, when I met the father of spirit Halloween, I kind of assumed he'd have a backstory about how he became a Halloween guy. Like, he stumbled into a crypt full of bats, or he stumbled upon a pumpkin that was full of bats. But it turns out his childhood was disappointingly bat free.

[Joe Marver]

Did trick or treating. Out of my house. I mean, we're going back to 1950 is when I was seven years old. My first costume was Zorro.

[Chris Berube]

Okay. But Joe Marver did tell me as a teen, he attended summer camp at this place with a really spooky name.

[Joe Marver]

I went to a camp in Devil's Lake, Wisconsin.

[Roman Mars]

In his 20s, Joe Marver moved west to California in search of his fortune. He worked as a clown in Las Vegas, then at a shoe store. And by the early 80s, he owned an outlet store in the Bay Area. A haunted outlet store.

[Chris Berube]

It was not haunted. It was just a regular store called Spirit Discount women's apparel. But right across the parking lot from Joe's store was. Was a dancewear shop. They sold leotards and tutus, but also a selection of Halloween costumes. And watching their customers gave Joe Marver an idea.

[Joe Marver]

They were lined up around the block for the month of October. And it was insane, because our October stunk in the women's apparel business. Across the street in a strip Center.

[Roman Mars]

In 1983, the Dancewear Shop closed, and Joe Marver decided he could not let those customers go someplace else. So he put the women's clothing in the basement and bought a crop of Halloween costumes.

[Chris Berube]

Hmm.

[Joe Marver]

I'm gonna go to a trade show. I'm gonna get wigs, makeup, A lot of products that could be for Halloween.

[Chris Berube]

That October, Joe completely changed his business for one month only. And Spirit discount women's apparel became Spirit Halloween.

[Joe Marver]

Our staff Totally was dressing up in costume, something that might have been a costume that we wanted to sell. And it rocked. It was amazing.

[Roman Mars]

The new business model worked right away. In his second year, Joe says he made $100,000. Soon he was running six stores and then even more.

[Chris Berube]

And it's from these early stores that we get the not built to last quality that's come to define Spirit Halloween. Now, this predates the rise of pop up retailers. Back then, there wasn't this modern concept of a cool artisanal clothing shop that's open for two weeks or a food truck in the parking lot of your favorite bar. Spirit was ahead of all that. And because they were just building for the short term, they used materials that could be put up and taken down really quickly.

[Mike Olson]

I remember that the tables for displays were actually the cardboard boxes that the merchandise came in, because you end up with all these boxes, lots of boxes, maybe 1,000 cartons at the time, and you'd pile these boxes up in the middle of the sales floor, drape a black cloth over them, and that was your display table. So ultimate in reduce, reuse, recycle, right?

[Chris Berube]

That's Mike Olson, who started working with spirit in the 80s. Mike says while the setup was a little bare bones, Joe Marver had a knack for making his stores feel macabre.

[Mike Olson]

You know, the aisles were nice and wide and you were just inundated with all the sights and sounds of Halloween.

[Roman Mars]

Joe started experimenting with how much he could scare customers without scaring them away. For example, many Spirit stores included baby carriages with creepy dolls in the middle of the action.

[Mike Olson]

You had the animatronics. You step on the mat and they scream at you.

[Roman Mars]

Customers loved the mix of kitschy and creepy. But early on, Joe hit a major roadblock in expanding the business. Landlords just didn't understand the idea of a temporary store.

[Chris Berube]

Mike Olsen says they associated the idea with something low rent and unreliable, like say, a fireworks stand that would pop up on the side of the road around the 4th of July. Very few landlords wanted to rent their space to a business that was going to put down stakes for eight weeks and then leave that space abandoned.

[Mike Olson]

I was calling around to landlords and other brokers and they, you know, they'd look at you like you had three heads when you say, look, I've got this temporary Halloween thing.

[Roman Mars]

To find locations, Mike Olsen would drive around town looking for shopping centers with empty, rundown storefronts until he found one that might take his call.

[Mike Olson]

That was it. When you put it like that, I mean, it makes it sound like, wow, that was super inefficient, but it was really the only way.

[Chris Berube]

Mike Olson says the sales pitch in the early days was pretty difficult. So the Spirit team got creative. Mike remembers trying to win over one corporate landlord with this suite of available spaces.

[Mike Olson]

I just know that I wanted to get in and break that nut with him. And eventually he called my buddy Ann Sullivan down at the Hayward office, said, hey, any chance that we've got a severed arm down in inventory somewhere? And she said, you know, I think we do. So she sends that thing to me and I staple it to a piece of cardboard, put my business card on it, and then write on there the gentleman's name. Hey, lend me a hand. I need your location here. And I put it in an envelope, sent it off to the guy, and he called me back and I got the deal.

[Roman Mars]

Ultimately, Spirit was able to solve their problem largely by paying above market rate for their short term leases. But another thing that helped Spirit was timing. Big box stores spread across America in the 1960s and 70s with the rise of Walmart, Target, and Kmart. By the 1980s, big box retail stores were becoming ubiquitous in the American suburbs. Those retailers put a lot of mom and pop and smaller chains out of business.

[Chris Berube]

But for Spirit, Halloween, the ubiquity of these big boxes was an opportunity. Because if one of these stores closed, which happened from time to time, landlords were stuck.

[Roman Mars]

These spaces were purpose built for something like a Kmart, and they were difficult to repurpose. You couldn't just put in a hospital or an apartment complex into an old big box unless you completely redeveloped the property and got zoning laws changed.

[Chris Berube]

Mike Olson says Spirit became a favorite for corporate landlords because of their promise. We'll fill your empty boxes for a couple of months while you look for a new tenant, and maybe we'll fix them up a little.

[Mike Olson]

We've cleaned more floors, replaced more light bulbs, and fixed more H vac units across the country than I would think any other retailer at this point. Because when we go into a space, we need that space to look good. And oftentimes a retailer, when they leave a space, they're not leaving it in a condition that's ready to occupy.

[Chris Berube]

This was Spirit's real estate strategy. Sometimes they'd take an old bank or one time a defunct church, but mostly they were laser focused on abandoned big boxes. Anything over 10,000 square feet, preferably across the parking lot from another popular store.

[Joe Marver]

If it had good traffic and it was a corner that had across the Street, a Lowe's or Home Depot, then that would be enough of a draw. Now we were at a Walmart just off the highway with highway visibility, with an exit. Hello, money.

[Chris Berube]

By the 90s, Spirit had a few dozen stores. They even managed to secure the perfect celebrity spokesperson.

[Joe Marver]

I even had Elvira, Mistress of the Dark, who we put on our billboards with her picture. And I got rights to the phone number, 1-800-HALLOWEEN.

[Roman Mars]

Spirit went national, and pretty soon a big mall brand took notice.

[Joe Marver]

Fast forward to 1998, and Spencer Gifts approaches me and says, we would like to talk to you about possibly doing a deal.

[Chris Berube]

After 16 years in business, Joe sold Spirit Halloween to Spencer's, a store most Americans will know for their fine array of lava lamps and novelty T shirts. Joe stayed on as a consultant for a while, but today, Joe Marver is retired from the company and he runs a hotel in Washington State. He still dresses up every year for Halloween and he plays a character for his guests.

[Joe Marver]

And I don't do too bad an Elvis voice. I mean, wise men say olive, Reverend, but I can't help falling in love with you.

[Roman Mars]

People who work for Spirit Halloween talk about a before and an after for the company. Under corporate ownership, Spirit has gone from 65 stores to 1500. And they've moved away from some of the generic costumes they used to carry.

[Chris Berube]

Old Spirit would feature largely off brand costumes. You might have seen jokes about these online, like the Sidekick Bros, who looked suspiciously like Super Mario and Luigi. But today, Spirit has the license to real characters from Disney and Marvel and most of the popular horror franchises.

[Roman Mars]

Spirit Halloween have corporate owners now and a website where you can buy stuff all year round. But their physical stores are still a temporary operation. Their logo is still plastered on a tarp in front of each storefront. Their display is still made out of pegboard, and they are still only open a few months a year.

[Chris Berube]

The biggest thing that stayed the same about Spirit Halloween is their real estate plan. They keep searching for empty big box stores every year. Here's Mike Olson.

[Mike Olson]

You know, I'm cruising the newspaper and I see someone file for bankruptcy. Admittedly, I'm immediately jumping on the say, okay, where are the stores? How big are they? And can I take advantage of this? Hey, I'm a broker. I can admit that. I'll go with that. You know, it's finding opportunities for my client.

[Roman Mars]

Spirit has benefited whenever there has been a crisis in the retail sector. First with the wave of corporate closures.

[Mike Olson]

In the 90s, good guys in CompUSA and Circuit City and Best Buy was out to Barnes and Noble, Borders Books, all of the big box. You know, the category killers.

[Chris Berube]

Then there was a much bigger crisis in the American economy.

[Mike Olson]

Get to 2008, financial meltdown, 2009, I think the Phoenix metro area at one time had 256 empty retail boxes. Big boxes, take your pick.

[Roman Mars]

Many brands didn't survive the financial downturn or lost out to Amazon or other online retailers. And Spirit has taken many of their old storefronts.

[Mike Olson]

Yeah, we could take old Sears boxes, old Kmart boxes. You've probably seen those, you know, the 40,000 square foot Toys R Us box or the 30,000 square foot bed, bath and beyond.

[Chris Berube]

This kind of gorilla adaptive reuse has led some critics to call Spirit the grim reaper of American retail. In fact, the whole thing has become a joke online.

[Mike Olson]

Yeah, we're part of the meme universe. You probably see the memes out there that whenever the government shuts down, for example, someone hangs the Spirit Halloween banner, superimposes on the White House.

[Chris Berube]

As a business, Spirit is doing well for itself. But I wanted to know what urban policy folks think about it. Rachel Quedno is the program director at Strong Towns, an organization that advocates against suburban style planning. And she doesn't like what Spirit represents.

[Jackie]

If our cities are thinking about, like, what is a long term benefit for us financially for our residents, then we shouldn't be thinking about pursuing, you know, really short term massive businesses like this.

[Roman Mars]

A 2023 report from the commercial real estate data company Costar says the United States has more than 50 square feet of retail space per person. That's much higher than countries like Australia, which have about 11 square feet. European countries have even less.

[Chris Berube]

And in Rachel's opinion, the success of Spirit is something that only happens because we have a bunch of big companies that build big boxes and then leave them empty.

[Jackie]

Honestly, for, like, all the huge big box stores that are now sitting vacant. I think the best case scenario is to knock them down, let them return to the earth, particularly if they're on the edge of town where it's hard to access without a car. I don't think that's a viable model to hope that we could transform all these stores into something new, especially when there's more and more becoming vacant every day.

[Chris Berube]

For his part, Mike Olson doesn't agree that there's some big overabundance of retail space. In fact, he says right now it's kind of a low point in the market for Spirit.

[Mike Olson]

We're in a completely different era. We're at a Point where it's difficult to find spaces because there hasn't been much in the way of new construction for retail across the country. And what retail is out there happens to be mixed use. You know, retail on the main floor, apartments or office above.

[Chris Berube]

If Mike's right, Spirit still manages to find hundreds of empty storefronts every year. The days of Spirit's real estate team driving around and begging landlords for space, those are over today. Larger corporate landlords expect Spirit's calls every year, and those calls start as early as January. That's because Spirit is just a regular part of their business.

[Mike Olson]

Now look, we are no different than any other retailer out there right now because they're doing the exact same thing. I guarantee you it's just on a slower scale. Every retailer is a temporary tenant. It just depends on how long they're temporary. Sears was temporary for 130 years. Other tenants, well, they're temporary for two years. But that's the reality of retail.

[Chris Berube]

Ultimately, Spirit isn't the reason for empty big box stores. There are bigger factors at play here.

[Jackie]

I don't think that there's something inherently wrong with Spirit. It's more like a symptom of a bigger problem. Most of our cities today, unfortunately are really structured to invite those large scale developments. Our zoning codes, our rules around parking requirements, our tax structures are set up so that, you know, when the Walmart at the Target or the big supermarket wants to come to town, we bend over backwards.

[Chris Berube]

I think it's easy to find some gruesome metaphor for Spirit to say it's like a vulture or a zombie or a grim reaper. But actually, I think Spirit is more like a hermit crab. It finds these different shells and it discards them as it goes along. Sometimes the shell is an old bank or a giant big box or an abandoned liquor store. It just uses these spaces because they're there. As to why Spirit is popular, I mean, there's no mystery here. Halloween is fun. It's the only holiday where you get to buy a present for yourself. And it's the only night of the year where it's socially acceptable to dress up and just be whoever you want. Oh, my gosh. Okay, maybe I have to get this. This is a costume. And the costume is guy who works at Spirit Halloween. So it says Spirit crew work shirt. There's a patch that says Spirit and skeleton crew on the side. Ooh, that's awful tempting.

[Roman Mars]

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[Chris Berube]

Hey, Roman.

[Roman Mars]

So you have a little bit more to this story.

[Chris Berube]

I do. I mean, I feel like in talking about the last few years of Halloween, there have been a couple of trends in America. Of course there's been the ubiquity and the spread of spirit Halloween and other stores. There's also Spooker, Superstore, Halloween Express, all these other ones. But there's also been another consumer product that has been just everywhere the last couple of Halloweens. So it's been memed to death. It's become this kind of obsession for people around Halloween in this country. Roman, are you familiar with the giant skeleton?

[Roman Mars]

So I've seen these around. So how actually tall are these?

[Chris Berube]

These are about 12ft tall.

[Roman Mars]

Oh my gosh.

[Chris Berube]

So if you don't live in the US maybe you haven't seen these, but if you're in America, they're kind of unavoidable around Halloween now. So in 2020 first, Halloween of the pandemic, everybody was wondering, you know, we're under lockdown. It's like, are we going to do Halloween this year? And that's the year Home Depot decided we're going to roll out this new product. It is a 12 foot plastic skeleton you can put in your yard with light up eyes. It costs about $300. And a lot of people, including me, were wondering like, given the price, given the size, would anybody buy these? And they sold out immediately. Like they Were just gone, unavailable. 2021. They sold out again. There's like, articles in newspapers that are like, when's the skeleton coming back? Where do you buy the skeleton? And it's hilarious because, like, this is all from a company that is not known for, like, Halloween stuff like Home Depot. I mostly associate with buying lumber.

[Roman Mars]

Yeah, I mostly associate with getting frustrated and not knowing where to go to find a thing.

[Chris Berube]

Yes, Home Depot is Byzantine. Yeah.

[Roman Mars]

But like, this. This thing has been such a success. Like, you know, it's probably one of the more famous things about Home Depot right now.

[Chris Berube]

Yeah, it's wild. I mean, the skeleton, it feels like it has become just like a part of Halloween now. And I've seen them all over the place. Like, I've seen them outside of chiropractors offices, which. Ha ha, ha, very funny. It's a skeleton. There was one in midtown Manhattan for no apparent reason that I kept running into. But I've always had a lot of questions about these. Like, I've always wondered, is it kind of a nightmare to own one of these skeletons?

[Roman Mars]

You mean, like, for the other, you know, 11 months of the year, like, where do you store them, how do you upkeep them, that kind of thing?

[Chris Berube]

Exactly. And personally, I would be most worried about judgment. I feel like, like, what would neighbors think if you had this G skeleton in your yard? Like, is it allowed also to have something this big just on your property? So I was wondering, what is it actually like to own a giant skeleton? So I called up a friend of mine.

[Bobby Lord]

My name is Bobby, and I am a proud owner of the 12 foot Home Depot skeleton.

[Chris Berube]

Bobby Lord, you may know him from the world of podcasting. He used to work on Heavyweight, and he does the music and the mixing for science versus a show that we love over here at 99pi.

[Roman Mars]

Yeah, I absolutely adore both those shows.

[Chris Berube]

So Bobby, you know, Bobby likes Halloween. His wife Deidre, she loves Halloween. And when they heard about the skeleton, at first they were interested, but they were initially kind of hesitant.

[Bobby Lord]

It's prohibitively expensive, unless you're insane about Halloween decorations. And we were very blessed to have a bunch of awesome, funny friends who pitched in as a wedding gift for us. Got it for us as a wedding gift.

[Chris Berube]

I was among those friends. It was.

[Bobby Lord]

Yes. I didn't know if you wanted me to.

[Chris Berube]

No, it's okay. It is okay to say this.

[Roman Mars]

So not only is Bobby your friend, you're involved in this story. You're the reason why this story is happening right now.

[Chris Berube]

I don't Think it's good journalism necessarily. But, yeah, despite my misgivings, I and a group of like 10 people went in together and bought them this gigantic Home Depot skeleton for their wedding. That's awesome.

[Bobby Lord]

When you guys bought the skeleton for us, he arrived in the most hilarious box I've ever seen in my life. On our front porch. It was so hard to just even open the box, move the box, get the stuff out of the box. And then I had to break down the box. And it was like, when you're breaking down this massive cardboard box, it was like, you know, cardboard is like pretty, pretty strong material, especially when it's that big.

[Roman Mars]

This is becoming like a white elephant for him. Like, I'm getting a little nervous for Bobby at this point.

[Chris Berube]

Yeah, I was, I gotta be honest, like, as soon as we pulled the trigger on this, I was like, what a great idea. They're gonna think this is so funny. And then I became anxious, like, right away. Like, am I signing up these people I care about for just a terrible experience?

[Roman Mars]

Totally.

[Chris Berube]

When you start, like, putting it all together and putting all the pieces together in your head, are you like, oh, no, we've made a terrible mistake, or was it like, this is amazing. This is changing my life for the better.

[Bobby Lord]

Funny that you say that, because I do think at one point it occurred to me that it might be a mistake. Like the type of thing that you think is so funny, and then you're actually doing it and you're like, oh, my God, this is so big. It really is so big. And then we had just moved into this house like two months prior into a new neighborhood. So I think part of you is thinking like, God, is everyone gonna hate us or be annoyed by us?

[Chris Berube]

So they put it up. They named the skeleton Tommy Lee Bones. So he's up there now. But they've got these worries, thankfully. It seems like people in the neighborhood are pretty into the skeleton. Nobody has complained so far. And they've had the skeleton up in their yard now pretty consistently for about two years, partly because there is nowhere reasonably to store a 12 foot skeleton in the off time. So for Bobby and Deidre, so far, they've been putting the skeleton in the backyard in the off season and they've been putting different seasonal clothing on him depending on the time of year. So he's had a Hawaiian shirt and shorts for the summer, you know, things like that.

[Bobby Lord]

We also put a Santa, a big Santa hat on him for Christmas last year, which, by the way, they don't make a Santa hat. Big enough for the 12 foot skeleton. So my wife bought four Santa hats and we kind of cut it and constructed one super large Santa hat. And then it was a big to do to like get up there and tape it to his head and stuff.

[Chris Berube]

So for the most part they love the skeleton. It's been a great experience. But he does admit there have been a few drawbacks.

[Roman Mars]

Like, other than being committed to large scale crafts. What are some of the drawbacks here?

[Chris Berube]

Well, okay, the maintenance issues, you know, predictable. You've got to do some upkeep. You have to replace parts once in a while. Bobby says it has scared some children. He has a cousin or a nephew who's been a little bit unnerved by it. But actually it's funny because the most disappointing thing about the skeleton, it's not like the negative reactions from people. It's not the stuff I was worried about, according to Bobby, it's actually how little people have reacted to it.

[Bobby Lord]

I naively thought like, oh my God, we're going to be like basically a tourist attraction in the neighborhood. We're going to be, we'll have like a Google map. People will be coming from miles around to see the big skeleton. That same Halloween, I saw like within one square mile of us, like literally like 12 people have the skeleton and then also they're all doing it better than us. Like they have more decorations around him and like, and like cool costumes on him and stuff. So no, a lot of people have the big skeleton and it was not as. We weren't as unique as I thought it might be.

[Roman Mars]

So the problem is that this wasn't weird enough. 12 foot skeleton has become too mainstream, it's too popular.

[Chris Berube]

Exactly. And then there's this like arms race to have the best decorated skeleton. So Roman, is this not in some ways the most human tragedy that we search for novelty, we push for greater achievement and then we normalize even these most remarkable of human accomplishments, the most remarkable human achievements.

[Roman Mars]

I mean, I don't know if I would put 12 foot skeleton in that.

[Chris Berube]

But you know, I think there are many people who have bought the skeleton who might disagree with you. Thanks, Roman.

[Roman Mars]

Thank you, Chris. 99% invisible was produced this week by the cadaverous Chris Berube and Jacob Murdernado Medina. Edited by Skellington Prime Mix and editing by Marscream Gonzalez Music by Swan Real Monsters Fact Checking by Skaara Bullins. Our executive producer is Kathy Boo. Our senior editor is Delaney Halloween. Our digital director is Kurt Goulstead. Our intern is Taylor Shrederick. The rest of the screen includes Freddy vs. Jason de Leon, Emmett Fitzperrell, Stabriella, Gladney, Christopher here's Johnson, Lasha, Madawn of the Dead, Vivian Slay, Joe Murder of Crozenberg, Nina Petocular and me Roman Mars attacks. The 99% invisible logo was created by Stephan Lawrence. Special thanks this week to Katie Klein, Ben Frisch and Katie Thomas. We are part of The Stitcher and SiriusXM podcast family now headquartered six blocks north in the Pandora building in spooky, scary Oakland, California. You can find us all on all the usual social media sites as well as our new Discord server where the cadaverous, crisp rube will be posting extra material from this week's episode. There's a link to that as well as every past episode of [e-mail] the first ever Kia K4 seamlessly combines bold.

[Chris Berube]

Style and advanced tech.

[Roman Mars]

With striking star map, LED headlights and.

[Chris Berube]

An available panoramic display, the Kia K4 delivers design and function. The available Surround View and Blind Spot View monitors can help provide added confidence.

[Roman Mars]

Plus SiriusXM comes standard, bringing you closer.

[Chris Berube]

To what you love. The Kia K4 balances aesthetics and innovation. Learn more at kia.com K4 4 surround view and blind Spot View monitors may not detect all objects around or behind the vehicle. Can your pad absorb everything and stay fresh? Always Radiant with Flex Foam can get up to zero leaks, zero odor and zero feel because Flex Foam is the only pad with a flexible foam core. That's right, Foam Always Radiant is so thin it feels like nothing, yet protects like nothing else. Can your pad do that for up to 100% leak free protection? Try Always Radiant to see what Flex Foam can do for you. Do you ever watch TV and think, wow, I'm really good at this? You're right. With rewards on sling, watching 30 minutes of TV daily gives you chances to win up to $10,000 in cash and other monthly prizes. Sign up for Sling or Stream for free with Sling Freestream to get rewarded for watching TV. Sling lets you do that. Visit sling.com to learn more and get started. No purchase necessary. FOIP we're prohibited by law. Visit sling.com for more details.