Podcast Summary: A Bit of Optimism

Episode: Choose Your Seven Humans Wisely with Fredrik Backman

Host: Simon Sinek
Guest: Fredrik Backman (author of "A Man Called Ove", "Anxious People", and "My Friends")
Date: November 18, 2025

Main Theme

The episode explores the power and intentionality of deep, lasting human relationships—how real friendship is forged, maintained, and what it teaches us about ourselves. Through candid anecdotes and reflections, Fredrik Backman and Simon Sinek discuss vulnerability, friendship “editing,” learning to celebrate others, and why being intentional with your "seven humans" is transformative.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Accidental Nature of Life-Changing Relationships

• Fredrik describes stumbling upon his closest relationships:

  "If my best friend or my wife had gone through an algorithm… never in a million years would it have matched us. I was fortunate to stumble upon people early in my life very different from me." (00:00)

• The episode contrasts our tendency to seek similarity with the deep growth that comes from friends who are different.

2. Vulnerability and Authenticity

• Fredrik’s viral speech at Simon & Schuster’s centennial was powered by panic, self-deprecation, and honesty:

  "Being a writer is the best way I know how to get paid for being insane." (04:00)
  "What you saw in the video, that was just me panicking..." (04:44)

• Simon reflects:

  "Where we hear someone as their most true self, that's when audiences fall in love." (04:58)

• The discussion highlights that imperfection and openness are widely relatable and connect deeply with others.

3. Editing Each Other in Friendship

• The best relationships act as editors:

  "Your friends are your editors... You need people around you who edit you." (12:31 - Fredrik)

• Fredrik shares how as a child he would “edit” himself, writing letters after arguments to communicate with more clarity.
• Simon likens good friendships to good writing:

  "The good writers know they won't get it right, and they need input. To be open to an editor rather than someone who just agrees with us..." (14:13)

4. Celebrating Others & Overcoming Jealousy

• Fredrik learned genuine pride in others’ achievements from his best friend:

  "He was the person who taught me how important it was to be happy for others. To have that as a genuine part of friendship." (10:02)

• Notably, Simon observes it's often harder to find friends to share your joy than friends who console you in hard times.

5. Quantity Over Quality Time

• Fredrik’s friend prioritized time as the true currency of relationships:

  "He said on multiple occasions, 'the only thing I can give you is time.'" (21:23 - Fredrik)

• Both agree: Repeated, sometimes mundane, investment in each other's lives builds depth—more than grand gestures or “quality moments” alone.

6. The Work of Relationships

• Fredrik demystifies the "relationships are hard work" trope:

  "When you're young, 'relationships are a lot of work' sounds unromantic. But the work is not on 'the relationship'; the work is on you." (29:42)

• Simon echoes this, noting the choice to be a good friend must come first.

7. Friend as Role Model, First Mover, and Rule Setter

• Fredrik’s friend set examples—from prioritizing a new family to communicating boundaries—showing how one person’s maturity helps others grow:

  “He sat down and said, ‘It’s not that I have to be with them. It’s that I want to be with them.’” (15:14)

• Their friend group learned to value investment in family and ongoing communication.

8. Self-Deprecation vs. Low Self-Esteem

• On healthy humility:

  “There’s a difference between being self-deprecating and having low self-esteem… Healthy self-deprecation lets you name what you’re working on. It’s identifying, not giving up.” (37:15 - Simon)

• Fredrik connects his humor to Swedish “Jante Law”—the cultural code of humility:

  “We never feel that we deserve each other. We always feel that we have to earn it.” (42:06)

9. Choosing Your "Seven Humans"

• Fredrik posits that most of us have a handful—“your seven humans”—who are truly central.

  “You have maybe seven humans that you chose. These are your [people]. And then people—people are the ones at the airport.” (35:43)

• These “humans” require real investment and can't be replaced by algorithms or superficial selection.

10. Empathy for Bullies & Difficult People

• Fredrik writes his fictional “worst” characters from his own worst instincts:

  "The worst people in my books… are often from me. And the best characters are from people around me." (49:06)

• Rather than excusing bullies, he focuses on what we share in our flaws:

  “Maybe I’m not that far from them that I wish I was...” (49:06)

11. On the Importance of Trying

• Simon and Fredrik agree that effort and visible trying matter most in relationships:

  “The measurable effort is the most romantic thing in the world in a romantic relationship or a friendship or a work relationship—it’s effort that someone is investing in a person, not that they get it right.” (34:54 - Simon)

• Both get emotional talking about how this effort is what really creates closeness.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Fredrik Backman:

  “I needed people who were not like me so that I could look at their best qualities and strive for them.” (00:38) "I have very few humans in my life because I realized early on that I need a lot of time from you—so you can see my good qualities too." (42:37)

• Simon Sinek:

  “The number of people who we can brag to is smaller than who we can go to in hard times. That says a lot about the quality of your friendships.” (08:39) “First you have to choose to be a good friend. Your friend made the choice to be a good friend—and what he got back was a great friend.” (30:13) "Being outwardly curious and saying 'I don’t know, can you explain that again?' … I get to learn more simply by asking." (52:02)

• On “Jante Law” and humility:

  “I wish it was expressed in the positive. Be humble, be appreciative of others, see the value in others.” (43:35 - Simon)

• On Cardamom Buns:

  “I know a bakery in Stockholm… called ET Baggery. It is profoundly good how good that cardamom bun is.” (55:43 - Simon) "From a lot of Swedes, you will get the same answer as if you asked an Italian about the best pasta: My mother." (56:03 - Fredrik)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00] – How Backman met his key people; the “algorithm” joke
• [04:00] – The viral speech at Simon & Schuster; panic as authenticity
• [10:02] – Learning to be proud of friends; the joy–envy paradox
• [12:31] – “Friends as editors,” editing yourself emotionally
• [15:14] – Friends as role models; the “first” to experience grown-up milestones
• [21:23] – Valuing time as the truest gift in friendship
• [29:42] – The “work” of relationships is on yourself, not the other
• [35:43] – The concept of “seven humans”; deep vs. surface connections
• [37:15] – The role of humility and self-deprecation; Swedish culture
• [42:06] – Never feeling you “deserve” your relationships
• [49:06] – Empathy for bullies; writing flaws from yourself
• [55:43] – Stockholm's best cardamom bun and the universality of food and family

Tone and Takeaways

Candid, gentle, and often humorous, this conversation underscores how real human connection is about time, effort, emotional honesty, and choosing to put in the work—for yourself, and for the small group of people who truly matter in your life.
Fredrik and Simon’s vulnerability offers both comfort and challenge: how can you become the kind of friend you wish to find, and who are the “humans” you’ll choose—and re-choose—over a lifetime?

Final Reflections

• The best friendships (and marriages) are ones where both people edit, challenge, and believe in each other, all while being honest about flaws.
• Choosing your seven humans—and choosing to invest your time and effort in them—is a meaningful act of courage and hope.
• Authentic, visible trying and willingness to grow are the root of lasting human connection.

If you’re looking to reflect more deeply on your own relationships, this episode is a masterclass in vulnerability, intentionality, and the work of real-life friendship.