← A Bit of Optimism
A Bit of Optimism
Creating Astonishment with Chicago Bears CEO Kevin Warren
00:56:08
Kevin Warren's job as CEO of the Chicago Bears is to astonish people with sports moments they'll never forget. A veteran executive of professional football, he's also served as COO of the Minnesota Vikings and Commissioner of the Big Ten Conference.
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- [00:01]
Simon Sinek
Do you remember the last time you felt truly astonished, being so surprised by something incredible, you just had to stop and take it in. That same feeling that kids get when they see a magic trick or a rainbow. For Kevin Warren, feeling astonishment is sort of a secret ingredient for why he loves his job. Kevin is the president and CEO of the Chicago Bears. Prior to that, he was the commissioner of the Big Ten conference. And prior to that he was the COO of the Minnesota Vikings. Put simply, he's pretty remarkable. So when talking to someone like Kevin, a serious high performer, you think you'd hear stories of discipline and structure and running on four hours of sleep. And though I'm sure some of those things are there, that's not what he talked about. He talked about the importance of pulling over to take a photo of a full moon and sending it to his friends. And he talked about making sure a new employee has their name on their cubicle and new business cards waiting for them on their first day of work. It turns out being astonished and creating astonishing experiences for others is the missing piece of magic in so many of our careers. This is a bit of optimism. You've never written a book, right?
- [01:20]
Kevin Warren
I have not written one. I have a draft of a book that I wrote and I have a promise to myself that as soon as our season ends this year, hopefully after the super bowl, going to pick it up and it'll probably take me just a couple weeks to finish it.
- [01:35]
Simon Sinek
What's the book about?
- [01:36]
Kevin Warren
It's called build your own pool and it's a story about my journey as a 10 and a half year old kid. I was run over by a car and I spent almost a year inactive. I was in a couple months in traction and then more months in a full body cast. And so it's. The lesson is all the things that I learned. The reason why I called it build your own pool is when I got out of my body cast, I got a relatively small, small settlement. But the doctor who I had was a skilled doctor, but he had his bedside manners were interesting. Saying that was the first time I learned in life that you got to listen to what people are saying, not how they're saying it. Because the way he said it to me was in a very aggressive manner. And one could have taken it as he doesn't care about you. But what he told me on my last appointment leaving the hospital, he said the thing that will give you the best chance for recovery will be if you spend time in the pool in the water because it will have the less Pressure on your body and it will give you a chance one to get back in shape, but give you a chance to get stronger. So the way he said it was like I said, aggressive, especially at that time talking to a ten and a half eleven year old kid. And. But I went to my parents and told them, you heard what the doctor said and I would like to build a swimming pool in our backyard. And my parents said we don't have the financial resources to do it. I said yeah, but I presume I'm going to get a small settlement. So I'd like to take that settlement and put it toward the pool, which my parents refused to allow me to do for about three days. And that was my first real negotiation in life happen after that. And I finally had to tell him to say that I was the one who got hit by the car. I was the one who endured traction, I was the one who endured a full body cast. So therefore it's my money. I know I'm not of age and because it's my money, I can spend my money on what I want and I want to spend my money on saving my life. And after that conversation they looked at me and said wow. And so I spent the majority of that settlement and built a swimming pool in my parents backyard. And six years later I was able to play Division 1 college basketball and kind of the rest is history. But that's when I learned the importance of being passionate. That was my why. And then that's when I learned it's one thing to have someone invest in you, but it's another thing for you to invest in yourself.
- [04:11]
Simon Sinek
It's so amazing, I think, how life turns out and sort of the things that happen in our childhood and in your case the, the pain and of being hit by a car and spending a year in traction and a buddy cast, you never want to go through that again and you wish that upon nobody. But at the same time it turned out to be a blessing. You, you probably wouldn't be the person you are today if it weren't for that experience.
- [04:34]
Kevin Warren
I would tell you unequivocally I wouldn't be sitting in this seat today but for that accident, it changed my life. It was the most painful, traumatic, dramatic, consequential event in my life. And what it did, it took me from a kid to an adult at 11 years old. It taught me to understand the importance of time management, that we all have 14, 40 minutes in a day. That's it. Regardless of our financial position, education, health, who we know, we all got the same amount of minutes. And then also it taught me the fragility of life, that every day you need to make sure when you lay down and go to bed that you can look back and say that I didn't, I didn't waste it. So I, I can tell you unequivocally there's no way that I would be sitting here today but for that accident. And, and so I've learned in life that some of those times that we think are really painful is really fuel. I know that's been my fuel even as I sit here today. Here's the challenge we have in life, or let's say it more positively, here's the opportunity we have. When I believe when you're born, there's a certain amount of reaching your capabilities that exists. It's there. And so I've always looked at is that what can I do to make sure that whenever my time on earth ends that I look back and literally the cupboard is dry. And that's how I look at my life. What I, I think the worst thing. And you've been around me, we've, we've spent time together. You know me, I don't like wasting anything. I don't like wasting water. I mean, I did it yesterday at the airport, you know, I was already over hydrated. But when I got into the, going into the line of security, you know, you have to empty your bags and, and I had about 8 ounces of one of those small little bottles of water. So I force myself to drink it just to make sure that I can maximize every gift from God, from a higher being that has been given to me. And so why is that important? Is my goal every single day is what can I do? Am I on track that when my day, when my last day goes out here, that I can look back and say I've maximized everything. We will better serve our young generation by putting them in a position where they have to struggle, where they have to pay for some things. And I'm talking to myself on this. One of the reasons why I embrace my graduate degrees is because I paid for them. I paid for all of them. I earned my undergraduate degree with my athletic ability, but my master's degree in business and my law degree I paid for. So it means a lot to me because I had to write the check. It's like building your own pool. I wrote the check. And so when I wrote the check as 11 year old kid for someone to build a pool in my parents backyard, my parents never had to tell me to make sure to get the leaves out of the pool because I knew if I didn't do it, it would clog it up, and then I'd have to spend more money to do it. My parents didn't have to tell me to tell my friends, don't eat in the pool, because I wrote the check. And so many times in life, when you write the check, something, whether it's, you know, it's an education, it's a degree or something, it just means more. And so I think we need to let our young people write checks more because it will mean more.
- [08:06]
Simon Sinek
I read a thing not that long ago that one of the most fulfilling jobs, the group of people that is contractors, because they do the work to build something, then they get to see the thing that they built.
- [08:21]
Kevin Warren
Right? Right.
- [08:23]
Simon Sinek
We live largely in a knowledge economy, right?
- [08:26]
Kevin Warren
Yep.
- [08:27]
Simon Sinek
With the idea of building something with our hands and the struggle and the effort, is it diminished in the knowledge economy, or can you have that feeling?
- [08:36]
Kevin Warren
You can have the feeling, but when you build something. And that's one of the reasons why I like this organization I'm so passionate about. You know, when I look over my career, then even I watch the. Every time I see the. The vikings play at U.S. bank Stadium. Yeah, they were in the same division. They're a competitor. I want to beat them every time we pay them. But there's something unique to know that. When I was thinking back, how many actual hours did I invest in the building of U.S. bank Stadium? It. Yeah, it's thousands. I mean, it could be five or six thousand hours. So there's something even on tv, when I look, I'll look. Does that sign hung properly? You know, is the light shining through the way that we envisioned it? Boy, how does that feel? That needs to be tweaked because we built something, you know, at the Big Ten. You know, every time I see one of those games on. On television, it's not even a sense of pride. It's the fact that, you know, we were involved in building something. And now at the Chicago Bears, that. That's one of the reasons why I took this. I don't even call it a job. I took this. Why. To use one of your terms, and I'll say it. If the Bears were coming off a playoff team or super bowl victory, had a stadium done, everything organization was in place, I wouldn't have taken this. This why? I took this. Why? Because, you know, we needed to come together as a group to build it. We're not there yet. We're making really good progress. But it's something special when you can pour in your hours, put in the time and be able to see it start to germinate and come to life.
- [10:16]
Simon Sinek
Did you, is there, are there any Easter eggs in the, in the stadium in, in Minneapolis? Did you secretly sign your name in the concrete hidden underneath the chair somewhere?
- [10:25]
Kevin Warren
No. What, what I did do is that we had a brick program out in front where you could buy a brick. My inscription that I had in there was may God bless all those who enter this building. That was kind of my, you know, my signature. But, but it is something special. And when you think back about, you know, some of the things that even that we laugh about today, when you talk about college, you know, what do you talk about? You talk about those all nighters or in law school, you reason why people love rallying around the bar exam because that's when it was grimy and gritty. And I always say, you know, if you can in this world be able to operate and operate successful with gravel and dirt in your mouth, those are things that you, you remember. Those are the experiences that you remember. It was that time that your suitcases were lost and you had to go X number of days without clothes or your bed didn't get delivered and you slept on the floor. It's all those experience. So it's a interesting dichotomy for every human being that we want comfortability, but we thrive in uncomfortability.
- [11:29]
Simon Sinek
Yeah.
- [11:29]
Kevin Warren
And the things we remember most are those pain points in our life.
- [11:33]
Simon Sinek
And it's when relationships get stronger, right?
- [11:36]
Kevin Warren
Yes, that's when it gets stronger.
- [11:37]
Simon Sinek
Struggle. Struggle. Shared. Shared. Hardship brings people together. You know, you look at military training, the Marine Corps knows this, which is you. You take a group of people and you put them to basic training together through boot camp together, and they, they become a unit in struggle.
- [11:51]
Kevin Warren
Yeah. That's why childbirth is such a powerful component. You know, that's one thing that makes women so special, is that they're able to experience something that we as a man can experience. But it's that struggle in childbirth. And that's why that relationship between a mom and a kid is a bond. That's powerful.
- [12:13]
Simon Sinek
It's funny you say that because the chemical that creates human bonds, human feelings of love and trust and all of those things is this chemical oxytocin. And when women give birth, they have a huge surge of oxytocin through their bodies, which is responsible for the mother child bond. Oxytocin is also released through Times of shared struggle. So, so it's biologically. Your analogy is biologically accurate.
- [12:37]
Kevin Warren
Wow. Wow. Now that's, that's, that's a good one. That's why the pain, the pain that I felt that day in my accident, I'd never experienced it before and I've never experienced after. And I've broken bones and, you know, things have happened. I've never experienced it. But it was a pain that really, I would say it elevated my spirit and my heart to a level that I know that I could always go to it. I mean, even in that. Even in that instance, that first 24 hours I grew up, and then for sure, over the next year. And the other thing that pain teaches you is that it can happen. In an instance, you could wake up and everything's clear and sunny, and in two or three hours that you're in an environment that you never even dreamed and you're learning medical terms from people that you don't even know existed. And then you become almost an expert in that area. And so that's one of the reasons why I'm grateful for every single good day. But I'm grateful for challenging times. What I went through at the Big Ten during COVID 72 days on the job to be thrust into that made me an even better leader than I ever thought I could be because of the pain that we had to go through of trying to figure it out.
- [13:49]
Simon Sinek
It's so funny you say this like as you're. As you're talking about it. I'm reminiscing. It's like my first job in the real world as an adult after college. I stayed till 10 o'clock at night, my first day, because we had to. And like, every day after that was easy. And I remember I got to another job later on, a few years later, and I went home at seven and I was like, oh my God, you guys go home. You guys go home early here, right? And like, it was the. It was the fact that my first job was ridiculous that made the rest of the jobs a blessing.
- [14:17]
Kevin Warren
Yes.
- [14:18]
Simon Sinek
There's one thing I want to go back to when you talked about nothing left to waste.
- [14:22]
Kevin Warren
Yeah.
- [14:23]
Simon Sinek
No second left to waste. No minute left to waste. I'll be honest with you, as you're saying it, it scares me to some degree because one of the things I learned during lockdown was I became addicted to productivity like so many other people where if I wasn't being productive, I was a loser. And I. One of the things I gained from lockdown was no I value unproductive time. I value doing nothing. I value relaxing or letting my imagination run wild. And I actually am okay being unproductive now. And when you talk about not wasting any minute, how does, how does doing nothing factor in or does it ever.
- [15:03]
Kevin Warren
Yes, that's. That's a great question. And you know what, what you just said, part of the growth process is when I say not wasting anything, that doesn't mean just activity all the time. You know, I was raised in a household to breed productive, you had to be active. But just within the last couple years, I'm talking about two to three years, have I recognized the importance of rest and frivolity, because what it does is makes that activity even better. And I wasn't raised that way. So it was hard for me. I was one of those people to say, boy, if we're not doing something, or we got to go from this to that to other. And now I recognize that it's that rest. I mean, even, even just this morning, I was bragging to myself and that I was able to get seven and a half hours of sleep for four straight nights. Like, I've never done that. But. But I now have recognized that rest is part of the journey. And it would be like getting in your car and driving a hundred miles an hour every single day. You're going to end up in the shop, you know, better than, than letting it rest. And so I've recognized the importance of rest. Well, even in recovery, it makes that, that time of productivity even more productive. So that's something that I'm just even learning at an older age.
- [16:22]
Simon Sinek
Let me push you a little bit, because this, this, this goes beyond sleep. Right. And I think, I think now, I think people finally realize that bragging that you got four hours of sleep is not cool.
- [16:29]
Kevin Warren
Yeah. It's not.
- [16:30]
Simon Sinek
Right. Like, I think we, I think we're all. I think we get that one now, that the importance of sleep. But I'm talking about getting to the end of the day or an afternoon.
- [16:39]
Kevin Warren
Yes.
- [16:40]
Simon Sinek
On a weekend.
- [16:41]
Kevin Warren
Yeah.
- [16:42]
Simon Sinek
And you look at a to do list and nothing is checked off and you feel fine. You know, like the addiction of productivity, the addiction to checking things off a list, the addiction to saying, look what I built, look what I did. Look what I accomplished over these hours to be okay with the fact that for the last three hours I did Lego or, you know, and like, does that contribute to anything in my household? Zero.
- [17:08]
Kevin Warren
But I think it does. I think, I think it doesn't in clearing your mind. And, you know, What I've noticed, I was one of those individuals that no matter where I was flying to, what I was flying there for, I had to have my briefcase, I had to have files and I had to work on a plane and I had to do something. So when I came back to say it wasn't wasted, now I've recognized and I've challenged myself. I've even recently I've packed my briefcase for a trip like I've been doing for years.
- [17:38]
Simon Sinek
Yep.
- [17:39]
Kevin Warren
And then I will say, I'm leaving this at the door. I'm not. I'm only taking out what my essentials I need, my passport, I need my wallet, you know, whatever essentials that I need. And I have found when I've done that. And I just did it in the last couple days, those trips have been much more productive. So, yeah, I could argue that putting together a LEGO set for three hours will help you because one, you may notice some structures in that LEGO set that when you come back to what we call work, makes you even more of a clear thinker. But the biggest thing, it allows you to be able to think and see things spatially that you may not have given yourself time to do because you've just been so busy or I've been so busy. So I do. So what I've tried to do now as I've matured in life is I've tried to just follow the flow of the river. Now there's some trips I get on a plane and I say, yeah, this is time that I really am going to lean into a project I want to work for and it's splendid. And then there are other times to say, I've been carrying this briefcase around and it may make me feel good and even if I do open it up, it's not going to be productive. So the best thing I can do is just to leave it at home. And I found when I do that over a couple day period, when I come back, I'm even more sharp than I was before I left.
- [18:54]
Simon Sinek
This is important. Right. Because you're one of the highest performing people I know. You are intense. You're a go guy. You're a big personality, or you're a commanding force in a room and it's like all your energy is forward, right?
- [19:07]
Kevin Warren
Yes.
- [19:07]
Simon Sinek
What epiphany did you have that the most go high performing person that I know said? I think I'm gonna just watch movies and read a book on the plane. What was the conversion that you were okay, spending seven hours, eight hours just watching Movies.
- [19:27]
Kevin Warren
A couple things happened. One of them was with you. You raised the issue with me. No, I'm tell you, you raised the issue with me about cell phones. And I was always sensitive of making sure I was in tune to relationship. But you made a comment of not even turning your phone over on the table. That doesn't do any good because that still says that it's there. But you said that to me, and I. It calls me. I was speaking at someone's wedding.
- [19:55]
Simon Sinek
Yeah.
- [19:55]
Kevin Warren
And my whole theme at the wedding was, if we treated each other the way we treat our cell phones, this world would be a much better place. Because what do we do? We, before we go to bed, we plug it in so we make sure it's charged up when we wake up in the morning. We check it. When the screen is cracked, we go get a new screen. If your cell phone doesn't work, you literally will drop everything and go wait in line for three hours to get a new cell phone. And when you get off a plane, on a plane, out of a car, anywhere, how many times are you checking your pockets to make sure that you have your phone? And I said, if we treated our relationships like that with our significant others. To this day, I'm still getting notes from that wedding to people say, I never thought about it because you'll come to work and say, how's your day? Oh, my God, I'm busy. I got 14 meetings stacked. I have no time for anything. And then let your cell phone stop working. And then what do you do? You're here, you're saying your schedule is clear, you're going to the nearest store, you're telling your, whoever you work with, you got to hold my meetings. Even if you don't have a car, you're. You're going to get in a ride to go there. And so it's all about priority. And so that's one of the things that I learned and I said in our relationships, if we leaned into our children, our parents, our grandparents, our partners, our significant others, our spouses, as much as we lean in our cell phones, this would be a magical world.
- [21:26]
Simon Sinek
Oh, my God, that's so good. The idea of recharging, the idea of checking in before bed, you know, like.
- [21:33]
Kevin Warren
Checking on when you wake up, checking.
- [21:35]
Simon Sinek
When you wake up, like, taking care of it.
- [21:39]
Kevin Warren
And you know what's crazy about it? The last time that I got a phone, I was waiting in there for an hour and a half, and I was the nicest person ever. I was just there and I go, sir, I'm sorry you're waiting. We'll be right to you. I said, no problem. That's okay. Because I needed to make sure that was right. And if someone, if we met someone in a meeting, they made us wait an hour and a half. We would have left and send them a nasty gram and said they were disrespectful. So we just have to keep in mind that we have to just take care of our relationships. And so since that day you said it, I have turned off my cell phone in my meetings. I don't even turn it over on the table because I have recognized the importance of being engaged with each other.
- [22:21]
Simon Sinek
Does this, does this mean that I have to upgrade my friends every two years?
- [22:25]
Kevin Warren
No, but you know what? Because I think I'm like nine phones behind. Because they keep telling me, you have this one day I see all these numbers, I say, I don't know the number. I just need a charger that will, that will work. And then there was something else that happened. I've collected art and I love art. But we had a piece of art in our house in Minnesota that I walked by for seven years. And I knew it was there and I liked it when we bought it. But it wasn't until someone came over and started asking questions about it and talked about how special it was that I really recognized how beautiful peace it was. And there's so many things in life that are in our environment every single day that we don't even pay attention to. And, and that's what really woke me up to say there's things that we have even in our home that we walk by. We look at it, but we're, we're gazing at it. We're not really looking at it and studying. And that's when I just said that, you know what? I'm going to take the next couple hours and go look and really study each one of these pieces of art that we bought it. Because when we bought it at the time it meant something.
- [23:33]
Simon Sinek
And you stood, stood there in the gallery or wherever you bought it, staring at it like, I want this in my home. And then you hang it in your home and you never look at it.
- [23:39]
Kevin Warren
And you never look at it. And it takes someone else to come into your home to ask you questions about it. We had a. Well, you know, you talking about going to Paris. We have a beautiful piece that we bought. So much so that we bought two of them. We bought one for my wife's parents home and for our home is basically a sculpture of Some nude adults, and they're not graphic, but it was beautiful. And I remember when we bought that in the Louvre in Paris. It was my first trip with my wife, and it was her first trip to the Louvre. I had. You know, my mother was a librarian. And as I said, we didn't travel as kids. We took one vacation every year in a station wagon. We drove from Phoenix to Laguna Beach, California. That was our vacation. I didn't go on a plane. My mom, because I had a lot of high energy as a kid, she would tell me, go spin a globe in her library. Close my eyes, put my finger, and where it lands, then go get a book off the shelf and read it. And this is no Internet. This is no Google, none of that. And so I remember reading about Paris and the Louvre and all those different things and wanting to go. And I remember the first time we met, we went to the. To the. To the Louvre. I couldn't sleep the night before I was in Paris, and I couldn't sleep because I was so looking forward to it. And so to go there. And then we got this sculpture and shipped it back home. And it made it home, was in crack. And I loved it. I hung it on the wall, I looked at it. And then a week goes by and a month goes by, years go by, and I never really looked at it. And someone came to the house and said, wow, that piece. Tell me about it. Where'd you get it? And I was able to tell the whole story. And that's when I recognized we got to start enjoying these things that are right in our surroundings instead of trying to acquire new stuff.
- [25:22]
Simon Sinek
You're talking like one of the reasons I'm a happy person is I find joy in very little things.
- [25:28]
Kevin Warren
Yes.
- [25:29]
Simon Sinek
You know, it's not this idea of, if only it were big, if only it were impressive, if only it were. And. And it's like you. I have an art addiction. And I treat my home like. Like a gallery where I will walk up the stairs and I will stop on my way up the stairs very often and just take one of the pieces in. Not all of them. I'll just take one in. I've seen it a hundred times, seen it a thousand times, but I always find something new. A brushstroke I didn't see before, a detail I didn't see before, an arm or a leg I didn't know was there. And I think that goes for life, which is. Which is also frenetic, going from A to B, that we forget that there's Beauty on the route. There's beauty on the route Going from my kitchen to my bedroom.
- [26:17]
Kevin Warren
Yes, yes.
- [26:19]
Simon Sinek
The joy of the. Of going through life from getting from A to B. We think the joy is the destination, and there is joy in the destination, but we forget that. What if you don't reach the destination or it doesn't go according to plan? Or somebody else gets the job, or somebody else gets the win? Or somebody else. Somebody else, somebody else. That there's so much joy on the way. And like I said, I think one of the reasons I'm a happy person, I just enjoy very little things. And I mean obsessively. Like, for example, when I'm making coffee in the morning, not every time, but occasionally, I become hyper tuned to all the sounds that I'm making.
- [26:57]
Kevin Warren
Sounds. Right?
- [26:58]
Simon Sinek
Right. So as if it. As if I'm Foley, as if I'm adding sound effects to a movie where you have to add each sound individually to make it sound real. Like, I hear the cup clink on the ground. I hear the coffee grinder go. I hear the coffee shaking into the coffee filter. I hear the water dripping. Like, it's really funny, like, for the. For like two minutes, I hear each individual sound. And I often catch myself smiling at all these little sounds that I'm taking in. And so for me, the joy of making my coffee in the morning isn't just getting to the cup of coffee, which is wonderful, but it's the sounds and the smells along the way. And again, it's not every time, it's not an obsession. It's just that these tiny little details, I think, make life so much more fun.
- [27:44]
Kevin Warren
You know, it's amazing. How many times have you gone to a funeral? And when either you're reading about the person's life journey, their why, or you hear people tell stories, you say, I work with that person for 15 years, 20 years.
- [28:04]
Simon Sinek
Yeah.
- [28:04]
Kevin Warren
And I never. I never knew that. And so one of the things that I've challenged myself lately is to say, I don't want to be surprised at any funeral. And the only way you're not surprised is you got to take the time to learn that person.
- [28:19]
Simon Sinek
Yeah. Yeah.
- [28:20]
Kevin Warren
Because I've gone to funerals recently, and I've gotten better over the last couple years because this has been heavy on my heart. Say, I never knew that. I never knew that they played the piano. Really. And you know why I didn't know it is because we were so focused on work, we didn't take the time to do it. Because if that's the case we were walking through an airport. Now it makes sense because that person, we were walking through airport, and when they had a pianist in the airport, they stopped and listened because they played the piano. But because I hadn't taken the time, it would have been cool to say, why don't you sit down and play a song? Or maybe when I'm sitting there agonizing over what gift to give them, maybe I could have gave them a Mozart concerto. I mean, there's, there's things right there, but it comes about spending time about putting away our phones and really getting a chance to learn what makes people tick.
- [29:13]
Simon Sinek
I have two questions. I want to know when, where you learned that and what to a lot of people, when they hear that, they say, simon, look, that's all fine and good for your friends, but this is a workplace. This is professional. I don't have time or energy to start finding out about everybody's personal lives and what, you know, what instruments they play. A, I'm curious when you learned it and B, what value does it provide you as a leader?
- [29:37]
Kevin Warren
I think when I learned it, there was a year in the last 18 months I did like three eulogies, two of my brothers and my father in law. And it was during that period when I was preparing for those eulogies and the one that really blew my mind is when my wife's family asked me to eulogize my father in law. There were things that, in that research that I learned that I didn't know. And that's when it really, that's when it really hit me is that there's always so much depth to a person. And so I asked myself, two more dinners, would I've learned that? Or two more conversations, would I've learned that? Or one more trip alone would I've learned that? And that's when I really started leaning into saying I really want to focus on not, not, not getting in people's business, but just spending that quality time with it. That's one where I learned it. And why is it important as a leader? Because I think people will follow you with joy, not with drudgery, if they know that you really care about them, their significant other, their families, their kids, their nephew. I think people, people understand that and I say it all the time, what you do for me is important. But what you do for my kids or my wife, you'll capture my heart forever. It's not giving them anything, but just even recognizing what it was. And that's when I really learned that. Because I think back now, these are the things that I think back all the time, what makes special leaders special. These are people that don't focus on the end game. They focus on the journey. And when you get people to really focus on the journey and focus on the people for not the end game, and whether the end game comes or goes, that they focus on that. And that's when I started to really recognize, you know, recognize that even more so in life, that that's really important to. To spend time on it. And it. So it makes you a better leader because those are people that I would follow. It was those leaders that truly. And I did it, did it for a reason, to try to placate me or anything, but truly do understand and take the time on it.
- [31:55]
Simon Sinek
So I know a guy named Jack Daly who. He believes one of the most important thing we can do in a company is actually onboarding. Because usually when somebody shows up at the first day of work, it's like, yeah, you're going to sit here, we'll set you up with hr. You know, the tech will give you a computer. I think you need to make some meeting to fill out your insurance. That's usually what onboarding looks like.
- [32:17]
Kevin Warren
Yes. Right.
- [32:17]
Simon Sinek
You know, and he. When he does it, he like, everything's ready to go. On their desk, there's a pad with their name on it. There's a printed thing that says welcome. Like, they make them feel like there was this preparation done for them on day one and makes them feel amazing. Like they do all these things for them on day one. Right. But at the same time, their spouse back home, they find out their spouse's name, and they send a bottle of wine or something to the house that same morning that says, we are so glad to have your spouse come work for us. Consider yourself part of our family as well. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah. So when he or she gets home from work, from the first day of work, they say, honey, you'll never believe how amazing my first day of work was. And the spouse pulls out this bottle and says, look what they said. Look what they sent home. And like. And that's day one.
- [33:08]
Kevin Warren
That's day one. And that's one of the things we've tried to do here at the Chicago Bears. One thing I am there. There are only a few things I'm neurotic about, but I'm neurotic when the new employee starts. One, their name needs to be either on their door or on their cube. Their business cards need to be ready.
- [33:26]
Simon Sinek
Yep.
- [33:27]
Kevin Warren
And you need to Touch someone at home. One of the things I started doing even for our senior leadership during this process, my 18 months, year of hiring people, I've been bringing in the majority of the families. There's some people, if they're open to do it, yeah, I'll bring their significant others and their children. Wow. In town for the interview just to get a sense, because what I found always used to focus on early in my career that it was the employee that you were hiring who was making the decision, but it was really the family that was making the decision. And if this, if the significant other partner was comfortable and had a good feeling and the kids had a good feeling, then it made the transition easier. Or if they were uncomfortable, just the opposite. So I saw that. And even the hiring, there are some people, not some couldn't do it, but that was really important to them. And even so much so that when you sit down and you have an interview with the potential employee and their partner or their significant other, that's what you want because those are the ones who are going to ask the most questions. You know, they really have the questions that when the person we interview gets back home and they go, well, how'd they go? Oh, when? Good. Well, what did you ask us? I forgot to ask. I'd rather have everyone, I'd rather have everyone there ask your questions.
- [34:38]
Simon Sinek
And you're hiring a whole person, right?
- [34:40]
Kevin Warren
You're hiring a person.
- [34:41]
Simon Sinek
Because we know, we know this. Like if you have a bad day of at work, you bring that stress home.
- [34:45]
Kevin Warren
Yes.
- [34:45]
Simon Sinek
If you're having a bad day at home, you bring that stress to work. And so you're hiring a whole person. This work life balance thing is kind of fake, right?
- [34:54]
Kevin Warren
Right. There is, there's no such thing as it.
- [34:57]
Simon Sinek
And so the fact that you bring the family in because the family will be affected by the stresses of the job and the job will be affected by the stresses of the family. So I love the fact that you consider the whole person even in the interview, not just in the job. That's so cool. I've never heard of that.
- [35:13]
Kevin Warren
I have my daily prayer routine. And even for our senior executives, I mean their significant others, their children, and by name. And why is that important? Because the greatest thing that an employer, a leader of an organization, when I ask specific questions, it's one thing to say, how's your family doing? That's great. But when I can ask specific questions about your son or your daughter or your significant other or your partner, ask specific questions. That's how you build that relationship, when you start talking to people about what's your why? Because then, in fact, and I've seen it over time, and this is not why I do it. And we do it is that when we really then need to shift down to that seventh or eighth gear and it may require for mom or dad to be gone or get home after midnight for 10 straight days to get something built or to close a deal. I found that the, the family at home is encouraging you to go do it because they know that we care. And on the flip side of it, when we can downshift and they can get extra time at home, go do it. I'm not talking about the big stuff as far as, you know, go to, don't miss this funeral or that funeral, whatever, but take your kids to school. You know what your kids like to eat. Go, go buy some deli sandwiches and just show up at your third graders class or order some pizza and go in there. Because those are the things that really at the end of the day back what we said, when you're thinking about what matters as a young kid, those are things that you remember. I remember field trips that we took when I was in fourth grade that, you know, my mom made a special sandwich or showed up on the bus. I mean, those are things that you really remember. So what I'm trying to do is to help our employees here to be able to make memories. That's why I want to invite the kids here in the building. The thing, the reason why we love kids so much is because they are willing to show their astonishment. And as we mature as adults, for some reason or another, maybe it's for protection or whatever, we don't show that when we're astonished. You see a kid and they see something, a rainbow or star, and they'll go. And that's what we love so much.
- [37:34]
Simon Sinek
Yes.
- [37:35]
Kevin Warren
And then, and so what I'm trying to do is create that environment to be able to get people to be astonished. I mean, we've lost that.
- [37:43]
Simon Sinek
I, so I had the opportunity to visit the, the Lucasfilm archive a few years ago, which I'm a Star wars nerd. I like Indiana Jones is my childhood and like the Ark of the Covenant was there. Like I saw it, you know, and Jabba the Hutt was there and I saw it, you know, saw him and like the, all of these props from all these movies. And I, I was like a little kid. I lit up. To your point. That rainbow that, the astonishment, like every time we turned a corner and I saw something I got so visibly excited. And as a result, the archivists took me to see more and more and more.
- [38:20]
Kevin Warren
Yep, that's right.
- [38:21]
Simon Sinek
And we were talking about the excitement and they said that they had a bunch of bankers come through and they knew that some of them were Star wars fans. And they all kept their astonishment close to the vest. You know, probably literally they were wearing vests and they showed no astonishment. And so they got the basic simple, quick tour and then that was over. And so I think this is what we forget, which is our joy of life, our joie de vivre, the when you see the rainbow, the stopping to look at your own art, that taking, just enjoying the sounds of making coffee in the morning, the smile you can get, learning that someone plays the piano. What we forget is that astonishment not only excites us, but it's actually contagious to the people around us.
- [39:04]
Kevin Warren
That's right. I mean, somehow I did it this morning. I saw that it was. It was dark, the moon was still up, and I just stood there in our living room, just looking at the moon. The other morning last week, I'm coming in the office early, it's pitch black, and I literally, I pulled over and said I got to take a picture of this. I sent it to a group of people to say that this was a full. I mean, to see a full moon. And so one thing I promised myself is I'm gonna allow myself, because it's in all of us to really be astonished. And I think when you can be astonished in life is special.
- [39:42]
Simon Sinek
A sunset, a view. Like I pulled my car over to like, stare at a sunset. Didn't even take a picture. I just pulled my car. But just because I was going to crash otherwise, because I was looking out the side window and I think this is, this is, this is what I love about you. I've never been able to put my finger on it. You know, you're this remarkable human being. You've accomplished so much, and I think people admire you for your accomplishments and your. A remarkable problem solver. I know some of the problems you faced in work and your creativity at solving problems is. You know, we've even, we haven't even touched on any of them. But I think this is what it is, which is whenever I'm around you, your energy for life is absolutely contagious. And I find myself wanting to get more out of life just as soon as I get to spend some time with you. And I. And this is what it is. It's this word. It's this word, I love it. It's astonishment that there are things in the world that are astonishing, and we are surrounded by people and experiences that are astonishing, and there's astonishment to be found everywhere.
- [40:48]
Kevin Warren
I stopped the other day and just stared at a cardinal. Have you ever really looked at a bird? The cardinal, I mean. Yes, I have got, you know, I mean, really. And the other day, you know, because when I was going through that rough patch with my accident, I remember, you know, I was wondering, what is life? Is it worth living? What does it mean? How long is this journey back? And I remember I saw a cardinal. So I've always loved cardinals. The bird. And the other day I saw one, and I just. I took about, and it was almost like the bird knew I was looking at it because it stayed steady there. And I was looking at the colors and, you know, the little, as I call it, the little Mohawk that they have. And to think about that, I mean, the colors of a cardinal, it just. It does like. It's like looking at a rainbow. And I'm just. Every time I see. I'm just astonished at the colors and how that comes out and that same color every single time. And it astonished me. I mean, it really is. And so I just think that's. If you asked me two attributes that if people had that this world would be even more special than it is, that would be astonishment and just curiosity. But astonishment is an incredible attribute and incredible gift.
- [42:09]
Simon Sinek
So there's a thing that I did for a while where we can calculate the average of when we're supposed to die, right? We know what that average age is, and we can just count backwards, and we know how many years we have. And if you want, you can calculate the weeks or the days, right? Like, we know these things. And so what I did was I calculated how many more weeks I have statistically on the planet. And I, I. I filled a fishbowl with marbles. I counted out the marbles that each marble represented a week. And so this, this fishbowl contained how many statistical weeks I have left on the planet. And then next to it, I put an empty fishbowl. And at the end of every week, at the end of every Sunday night, I would lift up one marble and say, was this a week worth living? And I got to decide what the standards were. And my standard was I had to have inspired somebody, right? Was this a week worth living? And if the answer is yes, it went into the empty fishbowl. And if the answer was no, I threw the marble in the garbage.
- [43:12]
Kevin Warren
Wow.
- [43:13]
Simon Sinek
Because I wasted the marble, I wasted the week. You know, you could do it for the day, you could do it for the. And your standards are your own standards. You can be, you know, whatever, whatever worth it is. And I'm very proud to say that old Simon would have calculated my productivity per marble and reformed Simon was. Am I giving to the world? Am I expending energy for the good of others? Whether it's a friend, whether it's a stranger, whether it's a colleague you know? And did I make someone else find value in life because I was there or I did something, my work doesn't count. My work just is out there doing whatever my work does. It has to be me. And it made me more self aware to be curious. I stopped doing it because like everything in my life, with adhd, nothing lasts forever. I do something for a few weeks or a few months and then it goes away. But I did it for a long time before it stopped.
- [44:08]
Kevin Warren
I did it for.
- [44:08]
Simon Sinek
I still have the bowls and the marbles. That's the funny thing, right? You could do with football helmets. You could fill.
- [44:13]
Kevin Warren
Yeah, that's a good idea, right?
- [44:17]
Simon Sinek
Did the Bears do something of value to the. To the world.
- [44:22]
Kevin Warren
To the world. That's right.
- [44:23]
Simon Sinek
There you go. One more question. What is something you've done in your career? One specific thing that a project, it doesn't matter, it doesn't even have to have been commercially successful, but something that you were a part of, that if you look back and say, if everything that I do for the rest of my life was like this one project was like this one thing, I'd be the happiest person alive.
- [44:43]
Kevin Warren
Wow, that's a powerful question. I would. There've been a couple times at the Rose bowl, my last Rose bowl at the Big Ten. So it would have been January 2, 2023.
- [45:00]
Simon Sinek
Okay.
- [45:00]
Kevin Warren
I started here in April. Joe Clatt, who's a broadcaster, you know, on Fox, he had a son. This young man was the most mature young person I've ever met. And he be literally like he wants to be a pastor. He's a young guy. It was stunning to me how shocked it was. And I remember that he moved my spirit so much. In our suite at the Rose Bowl, Joe brought his son by to say hello. I keep this praying cross in my pocket. I've done it, I bet you for the last 20 years, I keep this cross in my pocket and been around the world with me. I've been through a couple of them, but I remember I reached in my Pocket because the spirit movement. I actually had nothing to do with football. Gave it to his son. And I remember back to astonishment. His words to me were really powerful. And I think it's been just multiple those incidents. I could be out and have a pen and know that I meet a fan. Has nothing to do with football, but to share that or a shirt or jersey, all these different things. But just even recently here at the Bears, there was a young lady who was from Wisconsin who wrote me a letter about everybody in her family. Loved the packers, but she was the only one that loved the Bears. I don't know if you'll ever get this or write me back, but not only did I write her back, but I invited her and her whole family up to a game, you know, last year. And again, just being able to connect with fans like that, to be able to spread this thing that we call the National Football League and the Chicago Bears into areas to touch children and kids and families, you know, in a manner that ordinarily I wouldn't get a chance to do if I worked a kind of normal day job. And to be able to see her on the sideline with her Bears gear on that we sent, you know, proud to be a member of the Chicago Bears, especially coming from Wisconsin, is. And how I would always say these games, it brings families together. And that's why even building a new stadium, it's just not a building. I said, that will be a place where person will say, boy, that was the last time I spent a weekend with mom or dad or grandpa or grandma or my son or daughter or nephew was at a Chicago Bears game. Or do you remember, that's when we brought our person to a Bears game. They had such a great time. They ended up accepting a job in Chicago, and now they've lived here for this many years. And so it'd be much more than a building.
- [47:38]
Simon Sinek
What was it about giving the kid the cross that that memory stands out so much to you that you want to talk about it now?
- [47:44]
Kevin Warren
Yeah, I think what was about it was the fact that it was almost like the game was the event that brought us there, and it was going on in the background. But there were so many more things that we had an opportunity to change people's lives there. And I think, you know, you ask about it, what makes sports so special? What's the gravitational pull to sports? Yeah, maybe the colors. Yeah, maybe, you know, the talent that we see. But there's almost different layers. It would be similar to going and watching opera, listening to music. In your ear and having a conversation at the same time. It's just multi layered. And that's why I'm sensitive about the food, the beverages and the ambiance and the environment and the gear and the colors and the music. You know, I've said the great Bud Grant, who was I kind of coach at the Vikings for many years, who, God rest his soul, he said something to me, Kevin, he said, do you realize sports is what's kept the national anthem alive? He said, tell me another time that you hear the national anthem. And I thought about said, sporting events. And so when I go to sporting events, I always look at that there's about 12 or 15 different layers of what's going on, you know, in it all with the game as the. As the kind of the centerpiece. And so I think that's what happens. And it brings. I just believe that it has a chance for. Back to what we said before, it allows people to spend time that you could spend. And, you know, Simon, and I was thinking, now that you've said this, I grew up in Tempe, Arizona. My father was a professor at Arizona State. And this is something, hopefully I won't get choked up on it, on my dad's, literally, when he was ill, toward the end of his life, flew to see him in Phoenix. And I told him, I said, dad, I got about 10 questions that I've been holding my whole life that I just gotta ask you. I should do a book on that one day. And so I had this list of questions. One of them, I said, I gotta ask you a question. Why did you park so far away when we went to Arizona State football games? You know, because he would park a mile away. I mean, literally a mile away. And as a young kid, you know, and then even after my accident, that was like a long walk. We walk them out of the game, go to the game, then we have to walk. I said, why did you do that? I mean, you were a professor. We could have got somewhere on campus. And he said, because it was to spend time with you. And so I was thinking about it was, you know, he was trying to be efficient with his money and get a cheap parking space. He said, that was a guaranteed way that I could hold your hand for my walk to the stadium in a mile walk home. And so I just started thinking for all of us, you know, with the personal people in your lives and everyone's personal people in their life, what are some things we can do to be able to get that mile walk with someone that they would be thinking about for the rest of their lives. So, you know, those are things. So it wasn't even about going to the football game. That was his way of just spending time. And at the end of the day, you know what people want more than anything. And now, as a parent, as my kids get older, you know, you're. When you have kids, you think that your kids will want your protection and your money, so you work like an animal just to create that. And when you get older, you recognize what they really want is your time. That's all they really want. Because if you invest enough time in your kids or your significant others, all the other accoutrements in life, the houses, the cars, the trips, the money and all that stuff, it comes along really easy. But no one tells us that, you know, I just, you know, because there's no guidebook of when you become a parent. There's no guidebook when you get married. You know, you just kind of just get it and you go. I mean, you do a little counseling here and there, but no one sits down. So that's what I try to do to those young people are doing that journey. And now I'm just trying to really give people time. So when you share that with me about the cell phone, it really resonated with me in one way. You can say, tell someone you care about them. Especially in this world, especially in my position, when I sit in a meeting and I don't have my phone any. I've had people come meet with me, like, hey, do you have your. Where's your phone? I'm like, it's in my briefcase. It's off. You're important.
- [52:05]
Simon Sinek
I. I can tell you based on everything we've talked about today and just from knowing you, you have. You are your father. You have become your father, and you are working tirelessly to create these experiences for people, to create these long walks, whether it's coming to a football game or showing them art on your wall or giving them your. Your cross, that you are finding these opportunities and finding these moments to be fully present with people and allow them to be fully present with you and fully present with each other and fully present with their loved ones. And I think that you. You have become your father, which is you are creating long walks for everybody to spend time with people they love. It is your gift to the world. It's nothing short of inspiring, I can tell you that. Even with me, you're like, bring your nephew. You said to me, like, you didn't say, hey, come to the stadium someday. You said bring your. Nobody says that to me. People say, hey Simon, you should come for a game someday. Your invitation was, hey, Simon, you should bring your, you should bring your family to a game someday. You are constantly encouraging others to include the people who they love in the magic of their lives. And it is your gift to the world. You, you are, you are exceptional at it. And the world and our, our lives are better off having you in it. I can tell you that.
- [53:20]
Kevin Warren
And I'll close with this, Simon. Part of the reason why I became a lawyer. I had a dear friend in college and her brother was a clerk in the Supreme Court. And they let me look in some of the judges offices. I'm a 17 year old freshman at the University of Pennsylvania. There's no lawyers in our neighborhood, there's no lawyers in my family. And I was a pre med major at the time, but it changed the trajectory of my life. When you start looking in Supreme Court justice's office and see where Thurgood Marshall worked and never met him. And so that's why I'm so conscientious here. And I tell Mae, who's been with me for 34 years, if a young person comes by this office on a tour, they want to see where I work, let them in, let them sit in the chair. Because we know when they read My Journey, I didn't come from wealth, I didn't come from money. It didn't come from, you know, private education or boarding schools or whatever. And if I've been blessed to be able to do it, they can do it. But part of it is seeing it. And that's why I'm talking about your nephew. Your nephew may go on a field before game at a Bears game and feel the roar of a crowd. Who knows what that sends him to do. He may be an owner in the NFL. He could be commissioner one day. He may coach, he may play, he may be a referee. He may create technology that we use one day. But I believe if you, if you can put people in an environment where they can become astonished, the magic that is made not only in that instance, but 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 40, 50 years down the road is cataclysmic. And I think that's what I strive to do every day.
- [55:01]
Simon Sinek
Yeah. Finding times to astonish people. Well, you're a genius at it. Kevin, I love you so much. Thank you so much for taking the time.
- [55:10]
Kevin Warren
Simon. I love and appreciate you beyond words. I look forward to our next moment together. Pray you have safe travels. I just can't wait. And I just love you. I just so grateful that you've astonished me and that you just keep astonishing people around the world and I truly want to tell you I love you. I mean it. So I love you.
- [55:31]
Simon Sinek
Thank you my friend. If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. And if you'd like even more optimism, check out my website, SimonSinek.com for classes, videos, and more. Until then, take care of yourself. Take care of each other. A Bit of Optimism is a production of the Optimism Company. It's produced and edited by Lindsay Garbinius, David Jha, and Devin Johnson. Our executive producers are Henrietta Conrad and Greg Ruderschan.