How Losing Everything Taught Her to Help Everyone: Joan Howard’s Story

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How Losing Everything Taught Her to Help Everyone: Joan Howard’s Story"

A Bit of Optimism with Simon Sinek
Date: December 9, 2025
Guest: Joan Howard

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal and moving episode, Simon Sinek speaks with Joan Howard, a former trust fund recipient who lost everything, became homeless, and later dedicated her life to helping others in similar situations. Now a driving force at Food on Foot, the Los Angeles nonprofit that saved her life, Joan shares how her own fall from privilege instilled a bone-deep empathy and practical wisdom about homelessness—challenging stereotypes with firsthand experience. Together, Simon and Joan explore how service rebuilds not only communities but the broken spirits of those who serve.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Joan’s Background and Fall from Privilege

• Joan grew up wealthy in Beverly Hills, never having held a job or learned financial basics.
• Financial catastrophe struck in her 40s: Her uncle, the trust fund manager, lost all the family’s money in a pyramid scheme after a brain tumor ([16:26-16:50]).
• Quote:

  "I had a lot of money, and then I didn't. I was in Saks. I pulled out my credit card, and they denied it... That’s how stupid I was. And I was stupid." – Joan ([15:30-15:49])

2. Experiencing Homelessness

• Joan became homeless with her mother (who had Alzheimer's) and three dogs.
• After failed attempts to find services and declining health, they lived in their car in a grocery store parking lot ([20:19-20:24]).
• The local homeless community and Food on Foot took her in.
• Jay Goldinger, founder of Food on Foot, offered her a year’s rent and mentorship on the sole condition she attend the food line and write to him weekly about life on the streets ([22:30-23:58]).
• Quote:

  "He said, I want you to go find a place to live tomorrow, and I'm going to pay for it for a year." – Joan ([22:30-22:55])

3. The Philosophy and Pragmatism of Food on Foot

• Food on Foot provides more than food: Volunteers offer donated clothing, hygiene items, books, and most importantly, dignity and human contact ([03:16-08:49]).
• The organization adapts to changing needs, listening to clients and constantly pivoting services.
• Participants are diverse: 90% are hidden homeless (couch surfing, living in cars/tents/shelters); elderly homelessness is rising due to disasters like wildfires ([04:48-05:27]).
• Quote:

  "There is no one criteria for being on the street or in need. We have all ages, all races, all ethnicities... It's an education and it’s also a safe one." – Joan ([03:42-04:08])

4. Demystifying Misconceptions About the Homeless

• Most participants take only what they need, not as much as possible.
  Stereotypes about "greedy" takers are simply wrong ([06:30-07:26]).
• Homelessness is hard work:

  "Try being homeless. It's the most unlazy thing you can do... the amount of work you have to do just to stay alive." – Simon ([25:04])

• Stigma and dehumanization harm confidence more than lack of material goods.

  "She started to believe the way she was treated." – Simon, relaying a homeless woman’s struggle with being ignored ([30:19-30:24])

5. The Jobs and Housing Program: Practical Steps to Rebuild Lives

• Entry is selective: Applicants must be ready for work; mental health and addiction support are referred out if needed ([09:21-09:49]).
• Structure: Participants volunteer, are mentored, get job placement, and move to subsidized housing, saving $5,000–$6,000 before taking over a lease ([09:49-12:35]).
• Education is a new focus: Program now supports individual educational goals, GED to graduate degrees ([12:43]).
• Quote:

  "We’re not just getting people back on their feet—always forward." – Joan ([13:29])

6. Joan’s Empathy and Motivation

• Her lived experience makes her uniquely understanding and nonjudgmental.
• Service as healing: Helping others helped Joan combat her own depression and gave her purpose following her mother’s death.
• She credits Jay Goldinger’s mentorship and the "random act of kindness" principle, which empowers people to help themselves by helping others ([26:35-27:49]).
• Quote:

  "He saved my life, Simon. He gave me the focus... and it's not some kind of bad thing or an addiction that doesn't work. It works with everybody." – Joan ([27:17-27:49])

7. Stories of Transformation and Endurance

• Uncle Willie: A man who fell deep into heroin addiction but finally got clean and now helps others, carrying Joan’s truth-telling and support with him ([35:39-41:22]).
• Quote:

  "He said, because you always tell me the truth, and the truth’s the only thing that keeps you standing when you hit bottom." – Uncle Willie via Joan ([40:55-41:03])

8. The Power and Pitfalls of Kindness

• Kindness, not “niceness,” is essential:

  "Nice is a surface term, isn’t it?... Tell me you’re good. Tell me you’re honest. Tell me you’re kind. That’s a social term. It’s like glitter." – Joan ([42:26-42:42])

• Sometimes kindness is as simple as a smile or eye contact. If you have nothing else to give, acknowledge the person:

  "I’m so sorry, I don’t have any money to give you. I’m poor, too. ... Basically, all you have to do is say, 'I’m so sorry,' and smile and go on." – Joan ([48:05-48:22])

9. On Burnout and Finding Meaning

• Service is rejuvenating:
  Joan finds meaning through helping others, even when overwhelmed. The simple act of listening often means the world to someone in need ([46:37-47:09]).
• Quote:

  "I don't get burnout in what I do. I get burned out in my own life, and then I just pick up the phone and talk to somebody who's a heck of a lot worse than I am... and it saves my life every week." – Joan ([46:37-47:11])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On community and humanity (Opening and recurring):

  "I came here... all these people, she said, I have money in the bank... but these people have nothing. ... It makes me feel so connected. ... It’s probably saved my life." – Guest volunteer relayed by Joan ([00:00], [28:41])

• On stereotypes:

  "If somebody saw you sitting on the street or living in your car, the narrative of you—drug addict, anorexic, lazy... But you weren't." – Simon ([26:23])

• On privilege and empathy:

  "How did this spoiled little rich girl find such empathy for people who... are not like you?" – Simon ([43:10])

• Universal message:

  "If we all had a little empathy to recognize that everybody is a story, and if we had a little less judgment and a little more concern and care, you'd be amazed how much you can help." – Simon ([49:40])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Joan's introduction; perspective from a person helped by volunteering: [00:00–00:40]
• Simon recounts Joan’s background – trust fund to zero: [00:40–02:25]
• Food on Foot’s operations, practicalities, and philosophy: [02:59–08:49]
• Stereotypes about the homeless challenged: [06:30–07:26]
• Jobs & housing program breakdown: [09:21–13:29]
• Joan’s personal story of becoming homeless: [14:21–24:03]
• The importance of service, kindness, and truth: [24:38–27:49]; [41:58–44:33]
• 'Uncle Willie' and stories from the street: [35:39–41:22]
• On burnout and why service sustains Joan: [46:37–47:11]
• Advice for those who want to help: [47:11–48:49]

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Key Takeaways

• No one is immune: Homelessness can happen to anyone, regardless of background or wealth.
• Service rebuilds people: Practical, consistent kindness—eye contact, conversation, a smile—restores dignity and hope.
• Programs must be holistic: Housing is only one need; trust, stability, education, and employment are essential.
• Empathy over judgment: Meet people where they are, and see their humanity.
• Small acts matter: Even when you have no money to give, acknowledging someone's existence is profoundly important.

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Closing

Joan’s journey demonstrates the potential for anyone to become an agent of positive change, regardless of where they start. Through her lived experience and her role at Food on Foot, she testifies to the power of practical kindness, community, and the human need for dignity. As Simon concludes, if all of us had "a little less judgment and a little more concern and care," the world would be richer in hope—a true bit of optimism.

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Find out more, volunteer, or donate: foodonfoot.org

Transcript

[Joan Howard]

I was talking to her, and she said, I didn't think I'd be able to stand up today. I didn't think I could go on. And she said, I came here. And she said, all these people, she said, I have money in the bank. I can rebuild, but these people have nothing. And she said, it makes me feel so connected. It gives me such a sense of community. It gives me such a sense of right and justice. She said, what you're doing here, she said, I can't even believe all these people are thanking me for giving me, giving them a bag of chips. Or she said, food. And she said, it's nothing. And yet it's probably saved my life.

[Simon Sinek]

Joan grew up in Beverly Hills. She was a trust fund baby without a care in the world. On a day like any other, she was attempting to pay for her shopping at Saks Fifth Avenue when her credit card was rejected. Her trust fund had been drained. She had no more money. None. She also had no college degree, no skill set, had never held a job in her life. She never needed to. And now, with nothing, she would find herself homeless. I talk a lot about the value of service, of showing up to give, how helping others is the best way to. To help yourself. Joan Howard's story is that story on steroids. She talks fast, she talks a lot. She goes off on tangents. But her passion, my God, her passion to help others is absolutely inspiring. She now works for the very organization that saved her life over 20 years ago, an organization called Food on Foot. Their mission is to help people who, for various reasons, find themselves homeless in shelters, couch surfing or on the street. And perhaps one of the most amazing things they do is help people get a job, get a home, pay their own rent, and do more than survive. They help them thrive. In a time when government and private funding are harder and harder to come by, Joan proves that being nice is not what Satan saves lives, but being kind does. This is a bit of optimism.

Your story is remarkable. I came and volunteered at Food on Foot, which was a wonderful and inspiring day. And you and I were introduced, and one of, I think, was the director who said, you have to know Joan's story.

[Joan Howard]

That's actually Greg Kearns. He's the chairman of our board. What you should know about Food on Foot is the board is very active. They come on Sunday, which is nice. It's what I like best about it. So I know them all very well.

[Simon Sinek]

So let's tell people what Food on Foot is first. And I was invited as a volunteer to come and stand behind tables and take donated everything from canned food to.

[Joan Howard]

Well, that's pretty much my fault.

[Simon Sinek]

What's that?

[Joan Howard]

The stuff you saw. It's my fault.

[Simon Sinek]

Oh yes, you. So you, you, you, you help get. There was, there was clothing, there was hygiene materials, toothbrushes and sanitary products and sort of. I was amazed at the amount of stuff that had been donated. And I think it's different every week because you take whatever you get from donations and then the volunteers to hand stand behind the table. And the homeless line up every week in the same parking lot and they take what they need.

[Joan Howard]

And it's a safe, streamlined process for people who are interested in finding out what people in need are doing because they can have conversations with them. But more importantly they see that there is no one criteria for being on the street or in need. We have all ages, all races, all ethnicities. I think it's an education and it's also a safe one.

[Simon Sinek]

It does challenge, it does challenge our notion of, you know, quote unquote, who is homeless. I think most people's experience of homeless is seeing somebody on the side of the street and that is one kind of homelessness. But people, I mean, I met a young woman who. There was a victim of domestic abuse. She was forced out of her house, took her kid to escape, didn't have the money to because he wouldn't allow her to work. She got out and is living on friends couches. So she's not on the street per se or somebody living in their car, but they don't have a home to go to.

[Joan Howard]

90% of our people are in some way homeless in that they're couch surfing or in their car, in a tent, in a tarp and a shelter. A lot of them are rough sleeping right now on the street because the tent communities have been eradicated. But the problem is we have no place to put them. California, Los Angeles especially has a reputation for providing services. And I don't want you to think we don't because we are nothing short of amazing in the city. But the problem is the tsunami of need, especially since the wildfires when we get the older people and the people who've never been on the street before.

[Simon Sinek]

I was amazed how many elderly people there were that came through that day.

[Joan Howard]

That's it and that's the person I.

[Simon Sinek]

Was amazed by it.

[Joan Howard]

I haven't had much sleep since it happened because we get a lot of calls at food on foot and when it comes for services, I answer and I always answer. So I'm always trying to network. But the stories that I hear, it's an education. And we're constantly having to pivot and change and fit some kind of relevance into what we're doing, because we're very practical. We don't bring stuff that people don't need. We don't provide services. The line that you saw, the food on foot service line, it's not just a food service line. It's a food and service line. We basically give them the best we can. We get everything from True Classic tees and bomba socks that are absolutely brand new and they're wonderful to donate to books from the libraries brand new, from their book sales to all kinds of food. I get to give everything we get.

[Simon Sinek]

We give the other thing, which I think, again, just dispelling what people think, misunderstandings of the difficulties and the plights, which is, you would think, you know, And True Classic is a sponsor of our podcast. And I was amazed they had sent pallets of T shirts to you guys. I mean, the generosity, 52 pallets. But the thing that I thought was so interesting when I saw. Saw the amount of stuff that was there, I mean, like, they had stacks and stacks of T shirts, and people could take what they needed. And you would think, you know, and I've seen. I've seen wealthy people line up, you know, for free stuff, and they want one of everything that they don't need. And what I. And you don't see that people could have taken more. And most people took one of what they needed. They took a T shirt, a toothbrush. They didn't take 10. They, they. They weren't putting their hands in. And the reasons they have to carry it, they have to carry it all. So they don't want excess. They want just what they need because they have to carry it.

[Joan Howard]

They're survivors.

[Simon Sinek]

Yeah.

[Joan Howard]

And what is so admirable about them is they endure not just the psychological effect of being on the street or being homeless or being lesser as people look at them and treat them that way, but when they come to food on foot, what I get because I'm out in the street so much during the week is, is that they come to food on foot not just for what they get, but because of the way they're treated, the way you treat them when you serve or when you give things out. We have everything from people coming every week with families to people who have never experienced anything like this before. And we are a very safe place. It's a cornucopia of an education about people who are in need because we make it very safe. It's very streamlined. But what I find best about food on foot is how we change and pivot every time something happens. Because I'm out there and we have our ear to the ground, we put our finger on the pulse of what's going on out there. We figure out what is needed. We have UCLA twice a month. We have social services. We were able to get social service, the social service agencies to come on a Sunday when they wouldn't legal aid. We have the phones, we have different services. All the stuff that we give out is just basically a bridge to build trust, build trust back for people who frankly don't have.

[Simon Sinek]

And let's be clear, the program is designed to help people get back on their feet.

[Joan Howard]

Well, we're talking about the food line, which is basically.

About services and for people who could not do our jobs and housing program, our jobs and housing program because we are private, right. And we're small, right. But we're very mighty. We've been going over 20 years in this location. 27.

[Simon Sinek]

So, so, so because there were some of the people who were working behind the tables with us were themselves homeless. Just walk me through it. So somebody comes into the program.

She says, I want help getting back on my feet. I want to be independent. I don't want to.

[Joan Howard]

So we basically.

[Simon Sinek]

So walk me through the. Walk me through the life cycle of someone who goes through the.

[Joan Howard]

Kim is the gate. And basically she puts them through their paces to see if they're able, if they're ready to hold a job. Because a lot of people are not. A lot of people need way more help than we can give them. They need mental health, they need detox. There's a lot of stuff going on there.

[Simon Sinek]

Assuming someone's qualified and able to hold down a full time job, then they.

[Joan Howard]

Come on Sunday and they go through the workshops, they help out at the serving, they're given their gift cards. And if they haven't already been able to get a job, we will get them one. Then toward 10 to 20 weeks, depending on how long that takes, we put them in housing, we pay for that. We pretty much support them so that they don't have to use their checks. They bank their checks. Hopefully they get five, six thousand dollars by the end. Then during that time now, this is the difference between what we were doing before during this time now, instead of helping out at the servings, now that they've gotten into housing and they're working 40 hours a week, we take them into a spot where we have a lot of volunteers. We also had mentors all the way through, people who donate their time and mentor. But this is more important and it's part of why I think that we're going to succeed beyond my wildest dreams. We are targeting education for them, specifically for the unique individual, what they want to do.

[Simon Sinek]

Be specific. Let's take somebody who comes in, you know, and then she says, I, I want help.

[Joan Howard]

Okay.

So we figure out.

[Simon Sinek]

So let's, let's call, let's give her a name. Give me the. Think, Think of somebody who's been.

[Joan Howard]

Mary. Mary is working as a maid.

[Simon Sinek]

Okay.

[Joan Howard]

Mary's working as a maid. She's got, she's done that before. Yeah, but she wants to do more.

[Simon Sinek]

Right.

[Joan Howard]

But right now that's just about all she's qualified for.

[Simon Sinek]

Right.

[Joan Howard]

So she looks around, she gets a job. We get her a job. We put her in housing. She comes back every Sunday, we touch her.

[Simon Sinek]

Subsidizing the housing for the time being.

[Joan Howard]

Right? Always.

[Simon Sinek]

Okay.

[Joan Howard]

Always.

[Simon Sinek]

So she's, she's, she's able to work and keep that money to live?

[Joan Howard]

Yes. No, she keeps her. She banks her checks.

[Simon Sinek]

She banks her checks.

[Joan Howard]

Yes, we help. We help.

[Simon Sinek]

So you teach her how to save that money too.

[Joan Howard]

That's what the workshops are for.

[Simon Sinek]

Got it. Okay. So she's banking her paychecks. You're helping her with food and rent. Yeah, go on.

[Joan Howard]

So then we move into the phase where instead of the green shirt and she's at the table, we put her in a separate, separate class with people who are now in housing and they're working 40 hour a week. So that's a lot. So basically the first part of that is classes in just basically learning about what they might want to do.

[Simon Sinek]

And that's in addition to the fact that she's still out there as a maid making a living. And then she's also taking classes with you on Sundays. On Sunday.

[Joan Howard]

Only on Sunday.

[Simon Sinek]

Only on Sundays. And then at what point does she. I don't. I graduate the program. And she has independence while she is working through.

[Joan Howard]

Until when she saves five, $6,000.

[Simon Sinek]

Okay. So she has to save five or $6,000 and then she stays in the same home you've given her. She takes over the lease. So, so, so this is.

[Joan Howard]

And after that time, we also put. If she wants to do further education because we are doing this education program in the middle of it instead of having them work for us.

[Simon Sinek]

Right.

[Joan Howard]

Because we don't want to do better to go work.

[Simon Sinek]

Yeah.

[Joan Howard]

So we have One girl who's going after her ged, another girl who wants to get her master's. This is how far ranging the people who come to us are. We don't have just one person. We have one woman who graduated autistic children. She's interested in teaching them. We have another girl who wants to go into some kind of nursing. We have a man who is in construction now, but he wants to learn about computers and C and the rest. There's just a wide dichotomy and we want to be able. And we've got volunteers lined up now on Sundays to help them look for scholarships for us to help them to connect.

[Simon Sinek]

You're legitimately helping them get back on their feet.

[Joan Howard]

Not just get back on their feet, go forward. It's not getting back on your feet. You don't stay in one place anymore. You have to go forward, always forward. It is so important what we do in the first phase of this. We build a community, we build a family feeling where they know each other, they know us, they can trust us. They have a mentor during those first, first weeks with us. So they know they have a base where they're safe. And that is everything because these people have not had that.

[Simon Sinek]

So let me change tax now.

[Joan Howard]

You.

[Simon Sinek]

The reason I wanted to talk to you this, the, the I'm just talking about food on foot was, was just simply as a. So that people understand what you do. But you have a unique understanding and a unique empathy for the people who are coming through.

[Joan Howard]

Because I was there because over 20 years ago it happened to me and I was the last person I would ever think would be homeless.

[Simon Sinek]

So where did you grow up?

[Joan Howard]

I grew up Beverly Hills.

[Simon Sinek]

Grew up in Beverly Hills?

[Joan Howard]

Well, I grew up not on the.

[Simon Sinek]

Streets of Beverly hills.

[Joan Howard]

The first 11 years of my life, I was in Houston, Texas. My mother, we had money and my mother moved out here. She was a registered nurse. My dad died when I was a baby and we moved out here and I was bi coastal because I was, I was training and dance and I thought that was going to be great. So I went down to Texas for my grandmother's birthday and got run over by truck. So first 180 in my life. I had a lot of 180s, but that doesn't mean I wasn't a spoiled brat. My mother, on the other hand, was on every street corner with a sign. She looked like old fashioned Betty Crocker. She was always protesting something peacefully. But I mean she was, she was usually the last one arrested because she looked like A housewife.

[Simon Sinek]

So you grew up with money?

[Joan Howard]

I did. I did. And, okay, so.

I had a lot of money, and then I didn't. I was in Sachs. I pulled out my credit card, and they denied it. They denied all my credit cards.

[Simon Sinek]

And how old are you?

[Joan Howard]

I was in my 40s.

[Simon Sinek]

Okay, so you lived an adult life with money?

[Joan Howard]

Yeah. Never occurred to me anything. I didn't even know how to write a check. That's how stupid I was. And I was stupid.

Okay? So, long story short.

I scrambled. My mother had Alzheimer's at the time, and I was taking care of her, and I loved her very much. And it was also relief that she stayed home. I got sick.

[Simon Sinek]

Hold on. Back up, back up.

[Joan Howard]

No money. Hold on. Okay.

[Simon Sinek]

You're living, like. You're living a good life. You don't think about homeless people. You're.

[Joan Howard]

You're.

[Simon Sinek]

You're one of the haves, not the have nots. Yeah, you're living a good life. You're in your 40s. You're. You're in Saks Fifth Avenue spending money. Life is good. You run the credit card. The credit card is denied. What happened to the money?

[Joan Howard]

My uncle. I was on a trust fund. My uncle was an investment banker. Everybody's money was. He. He got a brain tumor. And, no, I'm not mad at him. I was mad at myself.

[Simon Sinek]

Took the trust fund.

[Joan Howard]

He took everybody's trust fund, everybody's money, and invested in some pyramid scheme that he never would have if he'd been sane.

[Simon Sinek]

So he gambled all your monies. So you went from rich to zero?

[Joan Howard]

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Like, actually, the car was taken, the bank came to the door. Everything was gone except the furniture, thank God. I liked antiques. I sold them. And I was able to get us into an apartment. I started working, really, for the first time in my life, and I wasn't any good at anything, but luckily I was doing inventory in the middle of the night in Northridge. I was doing all kinds of odd jobs because I love my mother very much. And I had nice neighbors who would look after her in the evenings, and I would work at night.

[Simon Sinek]

And where were you living?

[Joan Howard]

I was living in Sherman Oaks.

[Simon Sinek]

So you had a home?

[Joan Howard]

I had sort of an apartment. And I was doing audience. What I did with the audience was I. I started out audience. Okay. It's the lowest form of extra work. The kids would come in, which actually train me for what I'm doing now. A lot of actors would come in, and you just simply sit in Judge Judy or deal or no Deal or one of the court shows. And you would get minimum wage and get cash.

[Simon Sinek]

So you're literally sitting in an audience. You're literally paid to fill it, to fill an audience and clap fillers.

[Joan Howard]

And that's what I did until a woman called Adrian Corey, who was very good at what she did, pulled me out and said, why don't you do the Jerry Lewis telethon? Because you seem to have a good memory, because I was helping out one day. So I did, and she put me as a coordinator. And so I coordinated audiences at all the studios with her. I got the seat fillers, I booked, I wrote her checks. I. Anytime somebody went into an audience who wasn't supposed to go in because they wouldn't get paid, I would go in and pull them out because I had a good, good eye. And I learned about kids who were sleeping in their cars, sleep, people sleeping under bushes. They were actors.

[Simon Sinek]

And these are just people who are in the audience with you. So getting to know these other seat fillers, because as you said, it is a minimum wage job.

[Joan Howard]

And then I got sick. I was keeping my head above water. The rent was paid. I got sick. I got a weird form of cancer. It's usually curable, but it wasn't.

I was in a study with 35 people because I tried chemo and it.

I couldn't take it. I'm little. I can't even take aspirin. It's not like I'm the anti addict. I just was never anything that I could do. Can't even drink. My whole family's like that. Anyway, so they put me in a study. Immunotherapy knocked out my immune system, but it saved my life. And I honestly don't think I would have done it, except I love my mother so much, and she was not someone who could ever survive in a nursing home.

[Simon Sinek]

What do you mean you wouldn't have done it?

[Joan Howard]

I don't think I would have gone through what I went through with the treatment because it was harsh and horrible and I nearly died and I went down to £80. I wouldn't have gone through it except I loved my mother so much. And we did have three geriatric dogs and she depended on me, so. But I was too sick to do anything and I couldn't pay the rent. And the manager at our apartment said, well, honey, I'm not going to evict you, but can you just move? So I said, oh, sure. Oh sure, I'll find something. I didn't have credit. This is how stupid I was. I didn't have credit. I had no job. I couldn't even stand up. So we wound up in my mother's old LTD that stopped running when we got to Sherman Oaks, Ralph's parking lot. And the night manager was really good to us. He let us go in and clean up and he fed me with the old deli stuff at Ralph's. Luckily he's retired or he'd be in trouble.

But. And I tried everywhere to get services. I was living in my car, you.

[Simon Sinek]

And your mom and three dogs.

[Joan Howard]

And I was going everywhere trying to get help. I signed up everywhere, section, everywhere. There was nowhere. I didn't go nowhere. Nowhere, nowhere. But there weren't the services then that there are now. They were there, but not like there are now. They're really stupendous now, still. They're not enough. But anyway, so.

I'd gone everywhere I could. I didn't know what to do. I couldn't stand up. I didn't have cancer anymore, but I couldn't stand up. And it was the homeless around my car who adopted me.

Specifically the alcoholics who said to me, you should go over to Hollywood to that chicken line over there. There's a guy who's a real nut and he'd probably help you.

So I was so desperate, I didn't know what else to do because I was.

So I went, I went over to Hollywood. I got in, in Jay Goldinger's line, who founded Food on Foot. And it is his genius that laid the foundation that we have today.

[Simon Sinek]

You went to chicken?

[Joan Howard]

I got in the chicken line for food in order to talk and see if there were any services. There was. I saw no services. And this guy comes up to me.

[Simon Sinek]

Jay Goldinger, and he says.

Just so people are clear, which is one of the things that the organization does is it gives hot meals. Gives a hot meal.

[Joan Howard]

It gives a hot meal and it gives a lot of takeaway shelf stable items. So anyway, I went over and I'm standing in line, listing in the wind. And he came up to me and said, so what's your story? You anorexic? You drug addict? You're skinny. What's going on here? I burst into tears. Boo hoo hoo, mama. Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo. He said, okay, okay, okay, enough of that. He said, go through the line. Don't leave when the serving is over and I'm going to take you back and meet your mother. Go he was like that with people, probably like you are.

So at the end of the serving, I got into his suv. He met mama and saw the dog, said, this is a remarkably clean car of what's going on here. He talked to the people around my car. He talked to the night manager. And then he came back and he gave me his card. And he said, I want you to go find a place to live tomorrow, and I'm going to pay for it for a year.

I didn't know any better. I said, okay.

So I went to a woman, Connie, who would take three dogs, and I told her what had happened at an apartment house. And she said, oh, honey, this is a scam.

And so she called him, and he showed up with the food on foot car. And he said, I'm going to rent this place month to month for a year.

He was legitimate. And he did. And he turned to me and he said, now you have to be in my food line. You're not eligible for the jobs housing, but you've got to be in the food line every Sunday. And I want an email from you every. Every week about your life.

[Simon Sinek]

So when he says, in the food line, meaning volunteering to help?

[Joan Howard]

No, no, in the food line.

[Simon Sinek]

Oh, to actually eat.

[Joan Howard]

Yes, I'm a supplicant. And then he said.

I want you to take a look around at the street. He said, I want you to take a look and tell me everything you see and write me every week. Which I did twice a week sometimes.

[Simon Sinek]

This was the condition of him paying your rent? Yeah, yeah.

[Joan Howard]

And I did. So, long story short.

He fixed the car. He got me a vacuum cleaner. He paid for nursing from my mother.

And he gave me the support I needed. He was also kind of a mentor.

My mother died in my arms at 98 listening to Frank Sinatra in that apartment with the three dogs at her feet. They outlasted her. And I got back on my feet. I started doing audience stuff again and working through. And so I went back to him and I said, okay, Jay, how can I repay you? And he said. He said, pay it forward.

[Simon Sinek]

To some degree, anybody who has never been homeless and has not come close, close to being homeless, which has nothing to do with wealth, but, you know, you have enough that you. You don't think about being homeless. That we are all a little bit. I don't know how to put it. We're all a little bit assholes. Like the way that, you know, I.

[Joan Howard]

Was a definite asshole, you know.

[Simon Sinek]

So, for example, you know. You know people who say, well, the homeless are lazy. Try being homeless. It's the most unlazy thing you can do.

[Joan Howard]

You got bugs all over you, you're dirty, and there's no place to use.

[Simon Sinek]

And you have to go. You have to go find food to go find. I mean, the amount of work you have to do to just stay alive if you're lazy.

[Joan Howard]

And no two services are next to.

[Simon Sinek]

Each other and no two services next to each other. So these narratives that people who don't deal with homelessness, other than seeing it and having it be a nuisance in our lives, you know, there's a narrative that we have, which is why I do it. And when I heard your story of somebody who came from wealth, who was a trust fund baby and then had nothing and was now living with her mother and three dogs in a car, it's that story of.

And it's a story right now.

[Joan Howard]

Simon is all over this city in every age group. And I promise you, like, you're living.

[Simon Sinek]

A good life and life happens around you. We saw it happen with lockdown. Like, we're all fine, and then all of a sudden the world is completely different. And.

How ill prepared we are for what the world has to provide that what the world. What happens to us around the world.

[Joan Howard]

We're not. I was stupid in so many of the ways I lived my life.

[Simon Sinek]

That's why I wanted you here. Which is your story is.

[Joan Howard]

But I met someone.

[Simon Sinek]

If somebody saw you sitting on the street or living in your car, the narrative of you drug addict, anorexic, lazy, all of these things. But you weren't.

[Joan Howard]

No, I wasn't. I still wasn't able to do it.

[Simon Sinek]

But you had bad luck.

[Joan Howard]

I had someone reach out a hand and help me up. And he also mentored me in a way because I come from a long line of manic depressives and I have depression. And he was very big about when people got into the program to do one random act of kindness. He didn't require anything else during the week except find a job. But one random act of kindness to help someone in some way, really look at them. And this is not just giving them a sandwich you don't want or the rest of your coffee or a water bottle. This is listening to them. Something that takes something out of yourself. And that's what he drew out of me. And I discovered my mother and myself, which surprised me.

But what he taught me was he saved my life, Simon. He gave me the focus so that I was not depressed when my mother died. He gave Me, tools to use that uniquely fit me, that I could help people and help myself at the same time. And it's not some kind of bad thing or an addiction that doesn't work. It works with everybody. You'll find outreach workers right and left who do it.

[Simon Sinek]

Why did he help you?

[Joan Howard]

Because he was like that.

[Simon Sinek]

There's lots of people who needed help. He can't afford to pay everyone's rent.

[Joan Howard]

No, but he just had this Geiger about people.

Who would come through. He gave me the opportunity, and he gave me the foundation. And then when I pushed my way into his charity, he allowed it because it worked for him. He used to say, you got a work ethic like no other.

[Simon Sinek]

Joan, tell me about somebody who came and worked the line on a Sunday, who stood behind a table and handed out donated goods and had never done anything like this before.

[Joan Howard]

There was a woman whose house burned down during the fires. She has money, but she lost everything. That is a memory of the past, which really hits you in the gut.

And I was talking to her, and she said, I didn't think I'd be able to stand up today. I didn't think I could go on. And she said, I came here, and she said, all these people, she said, I have money in the bank. I can rebuild, but these people have nothing. And she said, it makes me feel so connected. It gives me such a sense of community. It gives me such a sense of right and justice. She said, what you're doing here, she said, I can't even believe all these people are thanking me for giving them a bag of chips. Or she said, food. And she said, it's nothing. And yet it's probably saved my life.

[Simon Sinek]

I had a conversation with.

A homeless person in New York City.

It was somebody who was young and didn't look like.

She was couch surfing, like, had some really hard times, you know, And I. And she didn't look like, you know, the stereotypical homeless person, you know. And talking to her, she was telling me that the hardest part wasn't the food donations or the few dollars that somebody would put in a cup. It's that people would treat her as less than human. They would ignore her, they wouldn't make eye contact with her. And she said the part that destroyed her soul wasn't actually the fact that she was without a home and sleeping on friends couches and trying to scrounge things together.

It destroyed her confidence that she became less than. She started to believe the way she was treated.

[Joan Howard]

And that's what we do every week. At Food on Foot, I'm on call for the people in line. Literally. Food on foot is only there on Sunday, visible. But everybody works behind the scenes. But what I do during the week, I figure out what they need because they tell me. And I'm out in the streets, I'm out at other charities, I'm out at support days events, finding out what's going on. Just this last Tuesday, I was downtown at a support day at the LA Public Library and the Metro was there and they were offering bus passes. And so I tackled Amelia and gave her an earful about what we do. And she said, oh, I can come, we can do that there.

[Simon Sinek]

It's the humanity, right? I mean, again, I'm thinking of somebody else. It was a homeless guy outside my office. I knew his name, I knew his story, I knew why he was homeless. He used to be a high flying guy and he, he was an idiot. He admits that he's an idiot and he lost all his money and he couldn't make ends meet. And smart guy and, you know, he valued more than anything that I just knew his name would say good morning to him. And, you know, and, and I think that's one of the things that, that, and even when I came to volunteer and work, work the tables, you know, to make eye contact with somebody and say, hi, what's your name? You know, and just save a life.

[Joan Howard]

Every time you do that, Simon, you know, you save a life. I occasionally, because I'm not often in all the circles, I'm too busy behind the scenes. But I will go and I will thank people for coming because.

[Simon Sinek]

And we're not talking volunteers, you're talking people coming and asking for things.

[Joan Howard]

No, I'm talking about the volunteers. I'm talking about the people who donate money and who are there to see what homelessness is and to feel better about themselves. But I thank them. There's nothing wrong with that. No, but it's, there's nothing wrong with that. That's a wonderful thing. It's a good human thing. But basically what I always do, I try to do, is to let them know the impact they've made on these people's lives. Because these are people, regular people, who are not spitting on them or looking down their noses or treating them as if they're dirt. These are people who are asking, what would you like? Would you like this? Would you like that? Well, take an extra. It's okay.

[Simon Sinek]

Let's go into difficult land. Politicians run on the platform of clearing out homeless camps. And here in Los Angeles. I mean, entire blocks are occupying.

[Joan Howard]

Well, that would be all right. That would be all right if they had a place to put them. Here's the problem with that. And it is a problem, I think, you know, from human experience, that a great segment of our society believes the world is flat and they're going to fall off it at any minute. That is not just people who have their criteria for wealth or whatever. You have people in the street who cling to things and they are pack rats. So it's too much. So they have whole communities of excess. Now, if we were practical and we put a dumpster next to it and we provided them with some hope for the future. The whole problem with. I have to say, we're doing a great job in Hollywood. We really are. We really are. With getting people off the street and providing them with the.

[Simon Sinek]

What's Hollywood doing that they're not doing on skid row?

[Joan Howard]

Because we have Hollywood forward. And quite frankly, Mike Foley, who's the head of Food on Foot, has been intrinsic in jumping up and down and telling them, look, you guys, we all have to hold hands. We're not going to do this by ourselves. We can't be so exclusive. We've got to share information and we've got to band together and partner. And he's so smart. And I mean, you saw how well organized we are at Food on Foot. It was not that way before.

[Simon Sinek]

I mean, not to go off on a tangent, but you're highlighting something which drives me crazy about not for profit organizations and charities because they compete against each other. Their businesses, they compete against each other. They're trying to solve the same problem.

[Joan Howard]

Competing against each other, much, much, much worse. And I'm terrified.

[Simon Sinek]

It drives me nuts.

[Joan Howard]

I will tell you right now, I'm terrified because what's happening, what's happening now, you don't want people on the street. That is not what you want. You don't want them. You want them to have a restroom. You want them to have some access and we should be able to put them into shelters or whatever. It's just they're so badly managed, most of them. The ones that are best managed hope the mission. I have to say they do it better than any other organization I've seen. But they are dependent a lot on the government money, as are all these huge organizations. Government money. And right now it's being cut off. And that means we are totally private. We have never taken government funding because we do not operate in a small little area. If you're from Pacoima if you're from Long beach or San Diego, you hear about us. You're homeless, you want to work.

[Simon Sinek]

Is.

[Joan Howard]

We will take you.

[Simon Sinek]

Has zero government funding.

[Joan Howard]

None. Absolutely none. Wow. Because it's a mess.

[Simon Sinek]

Yeah. Can you tell me a story of a single person you have met along your journey, whether it was a time when you were homeless or a time afterwards? Can you tell me that their story touches you more than everyone else that you carry? You carry their name with you.

[Joan Howard]

Uncle Willie.

[Simon Sinek]

Uncle Willie. Tell me about Uncle Willie. What is it about Uncle Willie's story?

[Joan Howard]

Uncle Willie is the son of a Supreme. Diana Ross and Supremes. And he used to have a kids show. He got on heroin, and he kept trying and trying and trying to kick it, and he came to food on foot. And it has nothing to do with me, but he was at a point where he really, really, really wanted to be in housing, wanted help.

And as I said, somebody doesn't answer the phone, I do.

So Uncle Willie came to me, said, john, I got to get in shelter. He said, I. He said, I went through treatment. But he said, they don't give you any help when they put you through treatment. They want you to go right back in so they can get more government money. He said, I need. He said, I need shelter. So I contacted him with a shelter that will remain nameless.

[Simon Sinek]

I'm gonna. Hold on. I'm gonna back up for a second. There's the treatment centers get government money.

[Joan Howard]

Because everything's compartmentalized, and they get government.

[Simon Sinek]

Money for each person they treat. So they don't. There's an incentive.

[Joan Howard]

There's an incentive not to keep you.

[Simon Sinek]

In the system because then you get more government money.

[Joan Howard]

The problem is the follow through and the support. You can't throw people in housing, any people without giving them support. And government agencies do not have. It's not their fault. They don't have the social workers and the outreach workers who can. They have 300 cases each. How can they do this?

[Simon Sinek]

Okay, so back to Uncle. So he's a heroin addict. He genuinely wants to get clean.

[Joan Howard]

And he did. And after he got clean, he called me and said, help me get into shelter. Help me, Joan. I said, okay. So I got him into a shelter that I thought was good. A lot of these charities are businesses, and they lean on endorsements and what people see. So they have one shelter that's like. It's a. It's a Small World tour, I call it. And everything's perfect. It's clean, everybody's happy, yada yada. Everybody's been rehearsed and everybody gives a good story. Then you have all the other shelters.

Uncle Willie got in one of the other shelters. And I had been, this is way back. This is way back. I've known him 15 years. And he called me up and he said, joan, he said, I have to room with this guy. And he said, he's a cutter and he has aids. And he said, we share a bathroom. And he sat in the shelter and he said, he bleeds all over the place. And he said, I've asked them to move me, and they say I'm the problem. I said, how are you the problem? He said, well, he said, and he's mental. And he said, I can't keep this up. And he said, I'm afraid. Because he was older then and he was afraid.

And he said, I'm cleaning up the toilet. I'm cleaning up the bathroom all the time. There's blood everywhere. I said, okay. I said, we got to get you somewhere else. But before that happened, he was thrown out of the shelter because he got angry. And he said, you can't do this to me. The secret about all these shelters is you can't get into any kind of disagreement in them, even if you're not at fault, because if you're part of it, they will oust you. And then you have a thing on your under your name and Social Security number that says you're a problem and they won't take you. And that's the truth. Hopefully it's changing, but that is what has been happening. And you tell me how you put a lot of people who were treated like animals on the street, you put them in shelter, and you don't have any staff there at all at night. And there were not just peer counselors or a security guard with two weeks training and expect everything to be okay. It's not. You need someone to be able to pour oil on the water. Night is when it happens. After hours is when it happens. That's why I answer all evening long. So Uncle Willie is now thrown out. He has no place to go. He networks. I get him a bus ticket back to Detroit where he has relatives. He calls me from Detroit and he says, joan, he said, I'm going to come back. I'm in better shape. He said, I'm stable. It's been a year. And he said, the problem is, he said, all my relatives are using, and I don't want to deal with that. So he comes back, I get him a really great caseworker because She's a friend, and she really, really does care. Unfortunately, she burned out. She worked for Lasso. That happens a lot because the outreach workers are tremendous, but they're up against. They have to. They have quotas. It's like any business. And there's so much they can't do, and they have too many people, and there's not enough that they can do for them. And you have mental. You have. You have just. Stoha.

[Simon Sinek]

What is it about Uncle Willie that you carry?

[Joan Howard]

Uncle Willie kept going and he kept calling me.

He kept calling me. And so finally we got him a place to live downtown. He has a place.

And he came through, and he helps other people.

[Simon Sinek]

Lots of people came through. Lots of people help other people. What is it about Uncle Willie?

[Joan Howard]

Because he was such a heroin addict, he fell so far down, he was in a ditch.

[Simon Sinek]

You've worked with others who've been in really bad shape.

[Joan Howard]

No, no. Not a man who's been on heroin since he was 20 years old and he's now 60.

[Simon Sinek]

Wow.

[Joan Howard]

No.

And he is the one who said to me, when I first met him, he says, I like you. I said, why?

He said, because you always tell me the truth, and the truth's the only thing that keeps you standing when you hit bottle.

So he was in line last week. He comes in line. He brought a guy with him from downtown who was homeless. And he said, this is Joan. Oh, he said, the famous Joan.

He said, why does everybody like her? And Uncle Willie said, because she's the one.

When everybody else turns their back on you. She. She'll still be there for you.

So that's why I do it, because these people endure and they're admirable. And I get more truth on the street when I go around to all these different charities and explore and find out what works and what doesn't. And I'm not against any of them, but I see the fallacies and what. The services that. That. Oh, just so much. And I see what goes on.

The people I depend on the most of the people who are on the ground, who are being served.

[Simon Sinek]

But the. This. This role of truth I find very interesting. Right. Which is you say when because they can handle it the way. The way they can handle it the way that Uncle Willie described you is when you're at your worst, she'll tell you the truth. And Jay was very honest with you. One would think that for people who are struggling, that being nice, that does work.

[Joan Howard]

But nice is a surface term, isn't it? When anybody ever says oh, you should meet him. He's so nice. I go, oh, boy. Tell me you're good. Tell me you're honest. Tell me you're kind. Tell me you're fair. Tell me you're decent. Don't tell me you're nice. That's a social term. It's like glitter.

[Simon Sinek]

But don't we need to lift people up who are struggling?

[Joan Howard]

Exactly. Be kind.

[Simon Sinek]

But sometimes the truth is difficult to hear.

[Joan Howard]

It depends.

[Simon Sinek]

When you got yourself back on your feet and you had a home and a job, what was the reason you decided to continue to volunteer as opposed to just go build a life and live a life?

[Joan Howard]

I was good at it, and I liked the people I helped. I liked them genuinely, and I saw them not treated well.

[Simon Sinek]

But I want to know, you know, how did this spoiled little rich girl find such empathy for people who my mother always had? They're not like you.

[Joan Howard]

There must be a gene that pops up when you're 50.

[Simon Sinek]

Something didn't grow up like you. They didn't live like you. And here you are like, yeah, well.

[Joan Howard]

Actually, someone said that to me, well, we need a social worker who really understands Hollywood and. And, you know, has lived experience. And he said, you know. And I said. He said, like you. I said, I'm from Beverly Hills. It's talent. You know, how people operate with people. If they're good with people and they care and they want to help. You have all these people out there, and you just know. There are so many wonderful people out there in the street hoping. You have no idea. I'm not an anomaly. I'm just usual. It's just that I don't stop. And it's not a job. I'm a volunteer. It's a vocation.

[Simon Sinek]

How much does the service help them get healthy again? Like, do people. Is there a higher likelihood that they're gonna get healthy? Like, where does the service component.

[Joan Howard]

Because they have someone to go to.

[Simon Sinek]

They have a place or somebody in the job program who's volunteering. Are they more likely to succeed in the job program when they also volunteer?

[Joan Howard]

That was the reason there was a random act of kindness required by Jay Goldinger. It's no longer required because it's. It's more fully fleshed out now. Right, right.

[Simon Sinek]

But there it is. There it is. This, to me, is the insight on all of this, which is you are more likely to help yourself solve your problem when you live a life of service and helping other people solve it.

[Joan Howard]

Well, there's something else that's going on that I Hope will happen. Randy Wyatt. I think you met her. She's absolutely wonderful. She has two kids of her own. She wants to start a program at Food on Foot to help youth. A lot of different organizations are doing this, but I think things Food on Foot way, I think we're better at it. Okay, I'm prejudice.

You have so much emphasis on kids using fentanyl because they say God. I mean, I grew up in the just say no era of Everybody said yes during the Reagan era because I'm an old person in the 70s in high school. And what I saw was most of my friends died. I was always a designated driver because I'm not kidding you, I can't even. Aspirin knocks me out. You give me some of protein, I'm going to be out for a week.

But what I see with today's youth. Look, I would never want to go back and be a teenager. Your hormones go crazy. I wouldn't go through that again for all the tea in China. Let me. Let me have my face like a Shar Pei. I'm fine. But for. For most people, for most youngsters, you hit a point where your hormones go wild, and I don't care. You're ins. You don't know. Your focus is not always the best, and you don't. And your parents haven't taken out a license to raise you right. They haven't learned. A lot of parents just let kids just out there. So the co criteria is don't join a gang, don't go to a rave and try help somebody. So we're trying to institute a program where we get together groups of kids and let them help other people and see that it's fun. This is not a downer. Did you have a downer when you.

[Simon Sinek]

Went, No, I had a lovely time.

[Joan Howard]

No, you had a wonderful time. And also, the people in our line who have nothing have a good time. I get that all week. I get. I come to Food on Foot to feel better about myself because I'm treated well.

[Simon Sinek]

How do you deal with burnout and the emotional labor of outreach?

[Joan Howard]

I don't get burnout in what I do. I get burned out in my own life, and then I just pick up the phone and talk to somebody who's a heck of a lot worse than I am in their lives. And basically, maybe I help them, maybe I don't. But I always get practically the same thing. Nine times out of ten, I said, I can't help you. Dear God, I wish I could. And you know what they say. But you listen to me. You answered the phone. Nobody else answers the phone. Nobody else talks to me.

That's nothing.

And it saves my life every week.

[Simon Sinek]

What is the one thing someone can do today to help their homeless or unhoused community?

[Joan Howard]

Be kind.

When I. At the beginning of Food on Foot, it wasn't quite as heartfelt as it is now. Right at the beginning when I was first.

[Simon Sinek]

What does kindness look like when you say, there's one thing we can do today? You say, what does kindness look like?

[Joan Howard]

Your face. That helps.

[Simon Sinek]

What does that mean?

[Joan Howard]

It means you look at people kindly, you smile at them, and you put yourself forward in order to be interested in them.

[Simon Sinek]

If somebody asks and you have nothing, because nobody carries change anymore in this smile.

[Joan Howard]

If you get.

[Simon Sinek]

Because I think people. I think people. I think people are uncomfortable to say no, and so they turn away and ignore somebody.

[Joan Howard]

Ignore that you don't exist.

[Simon Sinek]

And so if somebody has nothing to.

[Joan Howard]

Give in that moment, they always say the same thing.

[Simon Sinek]

What should they. What should. What does kindness look like in those moments?

[Joan Howard]

Well, for me, it's. I'm so sorry. I don't have any money to give you. I'm poor, too. However.

Maybe you might explore this, this and this. What's going on with you? No, I talk to them. You don't have to do that. Basically, all you have to do is say, I'm so sorry, and smile and go on.

[Simon Sinek]

It's a little bit of humanity.

[Joan Howard]

It's a small thing, but it works. And it's like osmosis. It's really like osmosis. One kind smile really does translate. I'm not kidding you when I say you probably save a life by coming to Food on Foot and smiling at somebody. I know. I've been told that many times during the week when I'm out there, and I am out there.

[Simon Sinek]

Joan, thank you so much for coming in.

[Joan Howard]

Well, thank you.

[Simon Sinek]

You are. You are a saint.

[Joan Howard]

Oh, no. God, no. Please, please. We're not a religious experience, and we're not a cult.

[Simon Sinek]

You were saint like, no, no.

[Joan Howard]

I was originally supposed to be a nun. My grandmother decided I was the youngest child of the youngest child. So I was supposed to be a nun. And my mother said, oh, no.

[Simon Sinek]

Well, if you refuse to be a saint, then just thank you for being.

[Joan Howard]

Somebody who cares the way you care, in the way everybody should thank you.

[Simon Sinek]

For caring to such an extreme level that it shows.

[Joan Howard]

Simon, do me a favor.

[Simon Sinek]

Yeah.

[Joan Howard]

Please.

[Simon Sinek]

Yeah.

[Joan Howard]

Let people know that I'm at Food on Foot for a reason. If anybody likes anything that I said, because out of everything I've seen, I'm telling you, I've seen hundreds. This one works, and it should be all over this nation.

[Simon Sinek]

For anyone who lives in Los Angeles, come down and volunteer at Food on Foot. Go to their website, foodonfoot.org, register. Come and volunteer. If you have a company or if you don't have a company, you just have means, you can donate money, you can donate stuff that they need. Again, go to the website and see what they need and what you can give. I've done it. It is inspiring and it, I think it forces all of us to recognize that everybody has a story and you don't necessarily know what that story is. And for us to guess what somebody's story is is very. You're going to get it wrong most of the time. And I think the lesson here is if, if we all had a little empathy, I mean, that's all it is, it's empathy. If we all had a little empathy to recognize that everybody is a story, and if we had a little less judgment and a little more concern and care, you'd be amazed how much you can help. And if you don't live in Los Angeles, please either steal their model and set one up in your city, or if you have means, please donate some way, shape or form. Joan, if you won't be a saint, at least accept that you are an inspiration. A Bit of Optimism is a production of the Optimism Company, lovingly produced by our team, Lindsey Garbinius, Phoebe Bradford and Devon Johnson. Subscribe wherever you enjoy listening to podcasts. And if you want even more cool stuff, visit simonsinek.com thanks for listening. Take care of yourself. Take care of each other.