Transcript

A (0:00)

I've been backed off and banned from probably close to, like, six, seven casinos now in Vegas. And unfortunately, they're all my mom's favorite casinos, so we can't go there anymore. She's told me to stop.

B (0:12)

So I love this that all you wanted to do was be a good daughter, celebrate your mom's birthday, and now you're banned from half a dozen casinos in Las Vegas.

A (0:18)

I know it's a funny turn of events, but, yeah, I blame my mom. She brought me there.

B (0:24)

I mean, it's always childhood trauma.

A (0:25)

Exactly. I just wanted to sit with her longer and have more drinks.

B (0:29)

So two introverts walk into a bar. Let's be honest, that's not happening. But here's what did happen. Two introverts sat down for a conversation about creativity and the importance of boredom. Yes, boredom. It turns out boredom is underrated. It can actually be a remarkable source of calm and creativity, which a lot of introverts may already know. That was definitely the case for Elle Cordova. She's a singer, songwriter, a poet, and a certified nerd who, in the isolation of lockdown, discovered a creativity she didn't know she had the result. Well, I'm sure a lot of you have seen her sketch about fonts at a party or her poem about the big bang, both of which went viral, very viral. Before the big bang, there was no up, there was no down, there was no side to side.

A (1:25)

There was no up, there was no down, there was no side to side. There was no light, there was no dark, nor shape of any kind. There were no stars or planet Mars or protons to collide. There was no up, there was no down, there was no side to side. And furthermore, to underscore this total lacking state, there was no here, there was no there because there was no space. And in this endless void, which can't be thought of as a place, there was no time, and so no passing minutes, hours, days.

B (1:49)

I first learned about Elle when I stumbled on her song Roswell, which, if you stick around, she plays live for us at the end of the episode. And if you're a nerd, you'll appreciate our chat about Star wars archetypes and how we need to give boredom a rebrand, which turns out isn't boring at all. This is a bit of optimism. You are a perfect example of why it's important to meet your heroes.

A (2:24)

I'm not sure if I. If I'm taking this the right way.

B (2:27)

Summary

Podcast Summary: A Bit of Optimism

Episode: Revisited: The Beautiful Brilliance of Boredom with Creative Polymath Elle Cordova

Host: Simon Sinek
Guest: Elle Cordova
Date: December 30, 2025

Episode Overview

In this lively and candid revisiting, Simon Sinek sits down with Elle Cordova (formerly Reina del Cid): poet, singer-songwriter, science fiction lover, and Internet polymath. Together, they explore the underestimated value of boredom, the creative power of space and “doing nothing,” the quirks and strengths of introversion, and the humor and curiosity that shape creative pursuits. Their conversation ranges from nerdy deep-dives (Star Wars archetypes, blackjack card counting, Roswell lore) to sincere discussions about mental health and the unpredictable, accidental route to viral artistic success. The show closes with Elle performing her educational, witty, and accurate song "Roswell."

Main Themes and Purpose

Boredom as a Creative Tool: Challenging the negative stigma around boredom, the hosts argue for its rebranding as the source of creative breakthroughs and self-discovery.
Curiosity & Polymathy: Tracing Elle’s journey as a lifelong learner who uses curiosity to fuel a diverse, rewarding career.
Introversion and Escapism: Honest talk about how shyness, anxiety, and introversion can actually become assets for deep thinking and artistry.
The Accidents of Success: A look at how unexpected circumstances (lockdown, stuck in Roswell, internet trends) function as catalysts for new forms of creativity and public connection.
The Human Element in Art: As AI becomes more prevalent, Simon and Elle reflect on what will remain uniquely valuable—and relatable—about human-made works and the essential role of storytelling.
Mental Health: Elle shares her struggles with anxiety and panic disorder, emphasizing the importance of conversation, vulnerability, and humor.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Accidentally Banned from Casinos: The Science of Card Counting

00:00–08:30

Elle shares the story behind being banned from six Vegas casinos, simply wanting to “sit with her mom longer and have more drinks” at the blackjack table.
She explains the difference between "gamblers" and "advantage players," demystifying card counting as basic arithmetic and strategy rather than complex cheating.
Quote (Elle):
“If you can add and subtract by one, you can count cards. It’s literally that simple.” (12:16)

2. The Roots of Curiosity and the Making of a Polymath

03:13–08:05

Simon admires Elle’s depth and breadth, describing her as "the personification of a polymath."
Elle credits her curiosity to her father’s rule-breaking curiosity—and her own introverted, book-loving upbringing in Fargo.
They discuss how restrictive, quiet environments and social shyness can push minds inward, sometimes resulting in unexpected genius or artistic output.
Quote (Elle):
“Curiosity is sort of my motivating force in life… I just hope people see that, get this little bit of resonant spark of curiosity in themselves.”

3. Creative Success by Accident: Isolation, Boredom, and Going Viral

17:23–24:58

Elle’s accidental viral fame during the pandemic came from having all her music plans canceled—an enforced space that allowed her dormant creativity to bloom (poetry, social humor, nerdy sketches).
Platforms like TikTok encouraged her to show new, playful sides of herself—and emboldened audiences to learn, laugh, and chime in with their own brilliant comments.
Both agree that the “gap” or downtime is the incubator for real artistic ideas.
Quote (Simon):
“My writing process is days and weeks of guilt and self-loathing punctuated by hours of sheer brilliance.” (21:00)
Quote (Elle):
“Nothing I’ve ever posted will beat the top comment underneath the post—people are so funny and so smart.”

4. The Beauty and Necessity of Boredom (or "Good Nothing" Time)

25:20–40:23

Space for Ideas: Elle and Simon stress that modern life leaves minimal empty space for minds to wander—everyone compulsively fills micro-moments with screens or tasks.
Both have rituals to engineer boredom or “negative space”: device-free walks, scheduled unscheduled time, even “Roswell time.”
Quote (Simon):
“Boredom is the very space you were talking about. We need to create spaces where we can allow ourselves to…be freed of distraction by boredom.” (38:03)
They riff on rebranding boredom ("good nothing") since doing nothing is constantly mislabeled as laziness, rather than the prelude to new ideas and solutions.

5. Human Creativity vs. AI: Why Human-Made Will Always Matter

32:41–36:27

They debate whether AI will overtake humans in idea-generation and creativity. Simon is optimistic about the enduring value of “the asymmetrical idea”—novelty born of human error, drama, and imperfection.
Elle, more cautiously, forecasts that humans will rely increasingly on machines to generate solutions, but there will always be a premium for authentic, human-generated art and ideas.
Quote (Simon):
“We don’t sit around for fun watching computers talk to each other, play chess against each other. We watch humans play chess.”
Quote (Elle):
“It’s the drama of the pressure and the mistake—is the part that we find entertaining.”
They note that art contracts increasingly include clauses affirming work wasn't machine-generated: “We’re not buying the product, we’re buying the story.”

6. Mental Health, Anxiety, and Making Space for Vulnerability

41:24–44:45

Elle shares openly about her history of panic disorder, agoraphobia, and the challenge of seeking help:
- Started as a teenager practically unable to leave her apartment; now self-managed but still recurring, particularly when traveling.
She discusses the double-edged sword of stigma and “over-diagnosis” of mental illness, and the vital need for honest, nuanced conversation.
Quote (Elle):
“I just think we could all just talk more about our mental health... If you don’t, it just gets worse. It festers and then we have negative outcomes.”

7. Nerd Corner: Star Wars Archetypes & Affinities

45:57–55:47

Deep dive into Star Wars and Star Trek allegiances. Elle proclaims herself a rare near-equal lover but leans Trek—while Simon flies his Han Solo banner high.
Both delight in using Star Wars to analyze personality: "Which character are you?" is actually deeply revealing.
Quote (Simon):
“You can learn everything about a person simply by them telling you which Star Wars character they are."
Elle chooses R2D2 as her closest archetype—“underestimated, always prepared, humble, and gets the job done,” which Simon says matches her perfectly. Simon, himself, is Han Solo: fiercely independent, but always with a loyal friend.
They nerd out over Palpatine's Machiavellian genius and the enduring allure of flawed, unpredictable, human drama.

8. The Birth of "Roswell": Creativity from Circumstance

56:08–59:08

The origin story of Elle’s Roswell song: ten unexpected days trapped in the town due to a broken tour van, with nothing to do but research and write.
Simon dubs these empty stretches “Roswell time”—another term for the creative power of boredom.
Quote (Simon):
“Roswell was your lockdown. It was your blank space. It was your good nothing.”

9. Memorable Closing: Performance of "Roswell"

59:19–end

Elle and guitarist Tony Lindgren perform “Roswell,” blending factual history about the famous UFO incident with humor and wit—demonstrating everything the episode has celebrated: curiosity, learning, and the accidental beauty of "good nothing" time.

Notable Quotes & Moments

Elle (on card counting):
“If you can add and subtract by one, you can count cards.” (12:16)
Simon (on writing):
“Days and weeks of guilt and self-loathing punctuated by hours of sheer brilliance.” (21:00)
Simon (on boredom):
“Boredom is the very space you were talking about. We need to create spaces where we can allow ourselves to…be freed of distraction by boredom.” (38:03)
Elle (on R2D2 & self):
“He always seems to know exactly what’s going on…He’s underestimated, he’s just getting the job done. And I relate to that.” (54:24)
Simon (on creativity and space):
“Our creativity comes from being bored, not from being active.” (37:38)

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:00 – 08:30: Casino stories, card counting, and introverted escape tactics
17:23 – 24:58: Going viral by accident, discovering new creative avenues in lockdown
25:20 – 40:23: The science and importance of boredom—"good nothing"
32:41 – 36:27: The future of creativity: humans vs. AI
41:24 – 44:45: Mental health, panic disorder, and the power of honesty
45:57 – 55:47: Nerd archetypes: Star Wars psychology, personal identification
56:08 – 59:08: How being stuck in Roswell led to a song
59:19 – end: Performance of “Roswell” (song)

Tone and Language

The tone is warm, witty, deeply nerdy, and insightful—balancing thoughtful discourse and self-deprecating humor. Both speakers are open about their quirks, anxieties, and joys, creating an inviting and relatable atmosphere. The language remains conversational but richly descriptive and reflective, with generous asides, nerdy tangents, and heartfelt admissions.

Takeaways

This episode is a celebration of the accidental, the underestimated, and the generative power of “good nothing." By embracing boredom, curiosity, and our own foibles, we unlock our most original, human ideas—sometimes viral, sometimes quietly meaningful.

For the full benefit:

Revisit your “good nothing” and defend your right to be bored.
Next time you’re stuck, try thinking like Elle Cordova: get curious, get nerdy, and don’t be afraid to take a second bite of the apple.
Wonder who you are in the Star Wars universe. It might tell you more than you think.