Podcast Summary: "Revisited: Why Awkward Is Awesome with Psychologist Ty Tashiro"

Podcast Information

• Title: A Bit of Optimism
• Host: Simon Sinek
• Guest: Psychologist Ty Tashiro
• Episode: Revisited: Why Awkward Is Awesome
• Release Date: March 25, 2025
• Description: Simon Sinek explores the concept of social awkwardness with psychologist Ty Tashiro, delving into its advantages, underlying causes, and what both socially awkward and fluent individuals can learn from each other.

1. Introduction: Embracing Awkwardness

Simon Sinek opens the episode by identifying himself as socially awkward, setting a personal tone for the conversation. He introduces Ty Tashiro, a psychologist who specializes in social awkwardness and authored "The Science of why We're Socially Awkward and why that's awesome." Simon emphasizes the potential advantages of being socially awkward, suggesting that socially fluent individuals can learn from the socially awkward.

Notable Quote:

Simon Sinek [00:01]: "It's a bit of optimism. Ty, I've never introduced a guest this way before, but I am so glad that you exist."

2. Understanding Social Awkwardness

Ty Tashiro shares his personal journey, explaining that his own experiences with awkwardness fueled his interest in studying the phenomenon. He recounts observing socially awkward friends struggling in social settings, which led him to question why society doesn't better understand the perspectives of the socially awkward.

Notable Quote:

Ty Tashiro [02:08]: "What can socially fluent people learn from awkward folks is to slow down sometimes and think about, hey, is everyone doing well here?"

3. Awkwardness vs. Introversion/Extroversion

The conversation delves into the relationship between social awkwardness and personality traits like introversion and extroversion. Ty explains that while there is a slight correlation between awkwardness and introversion, it isn't as strong as commonly perceived. Notably, there are socially awkward individuals who are highly extroverted.

Notable Quote:

Ty Tashiro [05:02]: "There is a small correlation between awkwardness and introversion, but it's not as strong as you would think it would be."

Simon references Susan Cain’s definitions, highlighting the energy dynamics in introverts and extroverts, and clarifies that awkwardness is a distinct category encompassing both introverted and extroverted individuals.

Notable Quote:

Simon Sinek [05:26]: "Introverts lose energy being social and extroverts gain energy being social."

4. The Heritability and Evolutionary Perspective of Awkwardness

Ty discusses the genetic components of social awkwardness, noting significant heritability rates—53% in boys and 39% in girls. He explores evolutionary theories on why awkwardness persists, proposing that socially awkward individuals contribute unique strengths to society, such as extraordinary achievement and creativity driven by obsessive interests.

Notable Quote:

Ty Tashiro [12:13]: "There's this curious and strong correlation between social awkwardness and what researchers call extraordinary achievement or striking talent."

Simon builds on this by suggesting that the advantages of awkwardness, like creativity and innovation, might explain its persistence through evolution.

Notable Quote:

Simon Sinek [14:11]: "It's not just social that there are huge advantages that we need the awkward people in our society."

5. Strategies for Navigating Social Interactions

Ty outlines practical strategies for socially awkward individuals to improve their social fluency. He emphasizes learning through observation, such as understanding personal space and mastering eye contact rhythms.

Notable Quote:

Ty Tashiro [08:27]: "I would watch how long do they make eye contact when they look away so they're not bearing into somebody's soul all the time."

Simon relates this to learning a new skill, likening the process to riding a bicycle where initial hyper-awareness eventually leads to natural behavior.

Notable Quote:

Simon Sinek [09:18]: "It's kind of like riding a bicycle, right? There's hyper awareness to start."

They discuss specific techniques, such as maintaining a 3:1 ratio of eye contact (3 seconds on, 1 second off), to make interactions less overwhelming.

Notable Quote:

Ty Tashiro [09:53]: "That's right. Awkward people tend to love details. So I said, don't fuss about the 0.1."

6. Coping with Awkwardness in Social Settings

Simon shares his personal strategy for managing social environments that exacerbate his awkwardness, such as avoiding loud parties and opting for smaller, more controlled settings. Ty applauds this approach, highlighting the importance of setting oneself up for success by choosing environments that align with one’s social strengths.

Notable Quote:

Simon Sinek [20:09]: "I go into environments where there's a small group of people... the social expectations are different."

Notable Quote:

Ty Tashiro [20:24]: "You're setting yourself up for success by putting yourself in social environments where you can thrive."

7. The Interplay Between Self-Awareness and Confidence

The discussion shifts to the relationship between social awkwardness and self-esteem. Ty clarifies that there is no inherent correlation between being socially awkward and having low self-esteem. Instead, self-awareness plays a crucial role in how individuals perceive and manage their awkwardness.

Notable Quote:

Ty Tashiro [15:57]: "There doesn't have to be a correlation between your self-esteem and you being socially awkward if you just have some self-awareness about it."

8. Awkwardness Through the Developmental Lens

Simon and Ty explore why awkwardness often surfaces during adolescence, despite its absence in early childhood. Ty attributes this to rapid physical and social changes during adolescence, which create new social expectations that adolescents may struggle to meet.

Notable Quote:

Ty Tashiro [17:26]: "There's all these things where there's a gap between expectations and your ability to meet those social expectations."

9. Lessons for Socially Fluent Individuals

Ty emphasizes that socially fluent people can learn valuable traits from the socially awkward, such as empathy, kindness, and determination. He suggests that awkward individuals often notice and care for others who are struggling, traits that can enhance social interactions and relationships.

Notable Quote:

Ty Tashiro [24:00]: "Socially fluent people can learn from awkward folks is to slow down and think about, hey, is everyone doing well here?"

Simon adds that being socially awkward can enhance one's ability to form deeper, more meaningful connections by focusing on the other person’s needs and fostering genuine interest.

10. Personal Anecdotes Highlighting Awkwardness and Empathy

Ty shares a heartfelt childhood memory where his father expressed pride in his thoughtful action of using his aunt’s money responsibly. This story underscores the values of fairness and generosity, traits often found in socially awkward individuals.

Notable Quote:

Ty Tashiro [27:32]: "My dad said, I'm so proud of you... it's about being thoughtful and fair with people."

Simon connects this to the broader theme of self-reliance and providing tools for others to thrive without undue reliance on external validation.

Notable Quote:

Simon Sinek [29:06]: "It's a very generous way of going through life... what can I give to you so that you can be your most successful?"

11. Conclusion: Embracing and Leveraging Awkwardness

The episode concludes with Simon reflecting on how his own awkwardness has become less distressing over time, allowing him to navigate social settings more comfortably. Both Simon and Ty express appreciation for the conversation’s cathartic nature and reaffirm the value of understanding and leveraging social awkwardness.

Notable Quote:

Simon Sinek [30:37]: "Standing at the party, sitting at the bar by myself, it just doesn't bother me anymore."

Final Remarks: Simon thanks Ty for sharing his insights and research, highlighting the importance of embracing one's social traits to foster a more optimistic and inclusive society.

Key Takeaways:

• Social Awkwardness Defined: Deviations from minor social expectations rather than major violations.
• Interplay with Personality: Awkwardness exists across introverted and extroverted spectrums, with unique traits in each.
• Genetic and Evolutionary Insights: Awkwardness has heritable components and contributes to societal innovation and diversity.
• Practical Strategies: Observational learning, practicing specific social skills, and choosing conducive environments can mitigate awkwardness.
• Mutual Learning: Social fluency can benefit from the empathy and determination inherent in socially awkward individuals.
• Personal Growth: Embracing one's awkwardness leads to better self-acceptance and healthier social interactions.

This episode underscores the notion that social awkwardness is not merely a hindrance but a trait with unique strengths and opportunities for personal and societal growth.