This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

In this episode, we welcome back Alice Hines, co-host of the Mind Games podcast, and dig into her reporting on neuro-linguistic programming (NLP), NXIVM, and the slippery gremlin bridge between self-help, persuasion, and manipulation. Alice explains how Mind Games traced the overlap between Twin Flames, NLP, and NXIVM. She spoke about interviewing ex-NXIVM president Nancy Salzman—and Sarah appears in episode 8 on NXIVM too.

Our conversation gets into how NLP was packaged as a legit-looking psychology tool before drifting into guru territory, sales culture, and cult-adjacent use cases. Alice breaks down the techniques, the industry hype, and the origins of NLP through its two founders, Richard Bandler and John Grinder. We got a bit fired up about how NXIVM borrowed, recycled, and repurposed the same influence tactics. And we talk about Nancy Salzman’s relationship to NLP, the role of “appeal to authority,” and how these tools can be helpful in one context and deeply abusive in another.

Be sure to subscribe to the Mind Games podcast and follow Alice Hines on her website alicehines.com, Instagram, X, or TikTok.

Trigger warning: This episode contains frank discussion of psychological and emotional abuse, sexual coercion, and blackmail/collateral.

Also…let it be known that:

The views and opinions expressed on A Little Bit Culty do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone or anything. Nobody’s mad at you, just don’t be a culty fuckwad.

Buy the A Little Bit Culty book on Amazon or order a signed copy.

Check out our amazing sponsors

Join A Little Bit Culty on Patreon

Get poppin’ fresh ALBC Swag

Support the pod and smash this link

Check out our cult awareness and recovery resources

Watch Sarah's TED Talk and buy her memoir, Scarred

CREDITS:

Executive Producers: Sarah Edmondson & Anthony Ames

Production Partner: Citizens of Sound

Co-Creator: Jess Tardy

Audio production: Will Retherford

Production Coordinator: Lesli Dinsmore

Writer: Sandra Nomoto

Social media team: Eric Skwarzynski and Brooke Keane

Theme Song: “Cultivated” by Jon Bryant co-written with Nygel Asselin

SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS:

When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com/culty.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Art of Influence: Mind Games’ Alice Hines on NLP and High-Control Manipulation