← A Place of Yes | A Grief Podcast 
A Place of Yes | A Grief Podcast
15 Years of Grief: How Losing Jake Changed Our Family and Marriage
00:40:19
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- [00:00]
A
Hi, I'm Heather Straughter, and this is a place of yes. In each episode, we have honest conversations about grief. The messy parts, the unexpected moments, and the ways we begin to heal through heartfelt stories and expert advice. My hope is to offer you comfort, connection, and a reminder that you don't have to navigate this alone. This episode is a little different because I'm sitting with my husband Brian, and opening up about what life looks like 15 years after Jake's passing. We. We start with a jar of questions and let the memories take us where they want to go. From the small yeses that help us keep moving forward to the ways Jake remains a part of our everyday lives. It's a tender, deeply personal episode, and I'm grateful to share it with you. This is your third time on the show.
- [00:42]
B
I hope I can live up to expectations.
- [00:45]
A
So we are starting this season with a question we are asking everybody. So given the name of the show, A Place of yes, can you tell me something that you have said yes to? This week?
- [00:57]
B
When we were visiting Plum island, we learned that Plum island is named after the beach Plum. So we learned if you make that with a mix, you know, in a year from, you know, when you create it, you could have a nice beverage.
- [01:12]
A
So by a mix, you mean Add vodka.
- [01:14]
B
Add vodka, yes.
- [01:15]
A
Were you trying to be.
- [01:16]
B
Yeah. So I. So I said yes because of the. The one. The day that we got back, I added my vodka to the plumes.
- [01:24]
A
I made mine yesterday. Yeah, well, that's a good one. So we focus on. And the reason we wanted to start asking that question is because what we have learned in the show or what I have sort of focused in the show is that it is the simple things in life, like the saying yes. More often, it's so easy to make excuses to say no. And you know more than anyone that I'm a constant excuse of no, like I'd rather be on the couch. But more often than not, you say yes, and it's always worth it. And life is short. So that is our simple way of starting off before we go too deep. So one of the things that I wanted to do with you was to not make this such a standard interview. I think people have loved hearing from you in the past, and one of the things we thought would be cool is if we just made this more of a dialogue and instead of it but a controlled dialogue, because we don't just want to go off on random tangents. I have a jar of questions, and the focus of these questions are not just going to be our story, because I think people know our story now, and they know the work that we do, and they know the way that we so, like, vigilantly keep Jake's memory alive. But the fact. And maybe it's just in my head, but I have been so stuck in the fact that it is going to be 15 years. It seems so long. It's almost like four times since he was alive. Like, it's just crazy. So the focus is on the 15 years. So I'm gonna let you go first. Okay. You get to ask me a question.
- [02:56]
B
Okay. When you think about those very first days and weeks after losing Jake, what memories or failings come to mind most vividly?
- [03:06]
A
Oh, so we're going right in. That was not an easy one. See, so that I actually was talking about this just yesterday. I can picture so much of that day, that Wednesday, December 8th, that we lost him. I can picture exactly where I was sitting on the couch. And I'm grateful we don't have that couch anymore. I can picture when I knew things went from normal Wednesday night with my two boys waiting for you to come home to very different. I know the moment that I knew this was not a hiccup, that this was really, really bad. I can remember talking to you on the phone. I can remember when Ems and everyone busted through the house. I can remember the infamous, you know, Ethan calling. I can picture all of that as I'm describing it right now. The other memory that. Well, actually, the second thing that comes to mind is when we were. When I was entering the hospital, entering the emergency room, and I saw Todd Duthaler. And I remember that was the first. The first and only piece of hope that I had because I knew this was dire. I had. I don't know if you remember this. I had to drive in the. They wouldn't let me in the ambulance. I had to drive with the police. And she was asking me inane questions, and I was so pissed. And I'm like, why can't I be with my kid? The whole thing was so horrible and so fast. But then I remember saying, Tod Duth Allor, who for, for those listening, was Ethan's good friend's father. So it was just this moment of hope. And I remember he was like, leave her alone. Get her in here. But then I quickly saw that he was doing everything and there was nothing to do. So, I mean, I can picture those days so vividly, like, horribly, really. And I don't know at what point. I don't know at what point I stop having that? I remember when we came home. I remember being in the front room screaming. And then I feel like things entered, kind of a numbness, like blankness. I don't know at what point it stops being so vivid, but it does, because then I kind of feel like it's all a blur after that. But those initial days to me are insanely vivid. And then I always wonder, are they accurate? You know? Cause sometimes I think memories are weird. Like, I swear on my life that they're accurate, but who really knows? So there you go, Bryce. Oh, and I should let everyone know because his name is Brian, but we jokingly call him Brain. And apparently I'm going to do that.
- [05:45]
B
Throughout this all the way back to high school.
- [05:49]
A
Not that I knew him in high school, but.
- [05:51]
B
And you're Heater.
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A
I am heater. All right, so my turn. Thank God. That was a real. I thought I was letting you off the hook by restarting, but I hope.
- [05:59]
B
It gets a little easier right now, just to start this off.
- [06:02]
A
Oh, this, this one might be a nice, like. Well, I don't know if it's gonna be lighter, but it might be a little bit. What are the moments you feel Jake with you most clearly? Even now?
- [06:14]
B
I mean, when I, when I visit the cemetery and I, you know, I have a ritual that I always do that I say as I walk away, I do something. And, you know, I, I, I've talked about this, you know, in the past that, you know, there's certain times when I think of Jake and then my, I get like a chill in my body. And, you know, that to me is, you know, Jake letting me know he is still present and around. And, you know, I, I look forward to that. And every once in a while that doesn't happen. And I'm like, you know, what's going on? But you know what? He has things to do as well.
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A
So I'm 19 now.
- [06:57]
B
Yeah, I'm okay with it. But clearly, 90 plus percent of the time he is around to let me know he's around.
- [07:05]
A
I am actually love that this question came up for you, because I think you do. I mean, I talk Jake, I do all of these things in grief and all this stuff. But I think you have such, you do such a great job 15 years later of keeping some of the same traditions isn't the right word, but routines. Whereas I can get, like wrapped up and lost in them and then I feel guilty and then I, you know, I go down a rabbit hole. I think you have done a Great job over the course of 15 years of keeping very true to your cemetery visits, to your traditions, to all of that. So I think that was the perfect question for you. You do a better job than I do.
- [07:45]
B
Well, it's not a competition, but, well.
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A
You know, everything's a little bit of a competition.
- [07:50]
B
How do you think Jake's memory or life will continue to guide us for the next 15 years?
- [08:01]
A
So it's interesting, right, because I think, and we have talked about this, and I certainly have talked about it endlessly, you know, if there's anything good that came from his death, right? You always gotta twist things, or I always have to twist things to try and make them feel less daunting and horrible. So if anything positive came from it is that I'm like a better human, I'm a more compassionate human. I try really hard to see other people's perspectives, not always successfully, but I try really hard. And I know that there is a demographic out there that I am vigilant about protecting and fighting for their rights. And they're kids like Jake, right? They're the people who have just a harder way of life. And I know that in the last 15 years, that has only deepened. Like, as I think of Jake as a 19 year old with his medical challenges and his disabilities and him trying to exist in this world, it just makes me want to fight harder. It just makes me want to keep doing the work we're doing with Jakes. It makes me want to make time to go visit, like, Malana and Girl, like just Jake's families that I know have such a hard go of it. So I suspect that as time continues and I continue to think of Jake, had he still been here at 21 and 25 and 30, and as I think about us getting older and what that would look like, I would hope that it continues to make me fight harder. And when I can't fight harder to make a difference, support, whether it's financially or buying equipment. Like, even if Jake's help from heaven isn't here, I want a portion of my legacy to be continuing helping kids, adults, families like Jake.
- [09:56]
B
Oh, good. And, you know, I'll just add, I mean, it's exciting because we continue to talk about Jake, even, you know, not the foundation, not the podcast, but, you know, we, we have him as part of our life. You know, whether, you know, if we are visiting with friends or would or we're, you know, out with our families, I mean, we, we still talk about him and, you know, we. We never let his name Go and go. Forgotten. You know, we. We try to keep him, you know, present for us. And I enjoy that.
- [10:32]
A
I love that. And that actually reminds me. I was writing this article the other day, and I had to cut it because it didn't really make sense in the piece, but I was writing about. And it's exactly that when we were at El Street Tavern or whatever that place was in Hampton beach, and we were sitting there with our good friends and having drinks and good vibe, we were super happy. And the waiter's name was Jake, so I was, like, instantly giddy, but spunky looked over at me and had such a big smile, and she's like, oh, my God, this place is great. His name is Jake. And it was almost like the whole table, it changed for everybody. And that just stuck with me because it made exactly what you said. We have kept him alive. We have kept him present. And not just for us as his parents or Ethan as his brother, but for our friends and especially our friends who knew him, who knew him, you know, And. And it. And he lives on through them, too. Not just us. And. And through their kids. Like Camden and Sawyer never met Jake, but they knew the impact of the name Jake. And that's awesome. And now I have chills.
- [11:35]
B
No. And. Well, that's Jake. No. And you're. You're wearing a shirt that says, you know, Jake's, and, you know, that's a place that we like to visit. And literally, just now, as I was, you know, driving up from Albany, I was behind the car, and the license plate was Jake 57. It's amazing how many times you're surrounded by the name Jake.
- [11:58]
A
And then I promise we'll go to another question, but that's, you know, Melissa Zeekr all those years ago, and then Rob, years after, wherever that is in South Carolina, I think there's an exit on the major interstate that is Jake Alexander Boulevard.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Yes. And that's awesome. Like, two different chiefs all sent that to us. All right, so that's how we're going to keep him alive for 15 more years.
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B
Perfect.
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A
Is it my turn to ask you? Oh, this is similar. This is, like, kind of on the same theme, I think. If Jake were sitting here right now, what would you want to say to him?
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B
Wait, so he's just here with me? Are we. We're watching a game. I mean, I.
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A
Well, he's not here in person, Brian. Figuratively. I don't know. Interpret it however you want.
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B
No, I thought you were just saying no.
- [12:42]
A
I mean, maybe if he. I Don't know. However you want to interpret it.
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B
I mean, so, you know, I, I talk to him all the time, and I guess, you know, what we, what we talk about is, you know, so when my parents passed, you know, I, you know, say to him, even though he was the younger one, you know, I mean, show him around, you know, make sure, you know, you know, run up and give Granny and grandfather a hug and kiss. And, you know, I know that we've done that with other people, you know, who have passed after Jake, you know, you know, obviously you didn't want him to do that, you know, or to, you know, have passed, but now we're trying to say, so Jake, you can kind of help other people, so, you know, you're helping people. You know where you are. But if, if he were here with me right now, I want to, I want to know what it would be like, you know, being, being surrounded by your family and, and friends and just other people who aren't on this, on the earth. And you know, what that experience.
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A
Let him give you a sneak preview.
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B
I, I, well, of course, no, I, I don't even. Yes, yes, I want to sneak through you, but I also want to know what's, what does he do, you know, what's, what's his experience? Because again, I, I, I am of the belief that, you know, there is, there has to be something beyond this. And, you know, I, I suspect and feel in my heart that he is making the best of it.
- [14:10]
A
I am so. It's so funny because this is classic us. I interpreted that question so differently, so, and maybe not so differently because I kind of like everything you said, but I would, and maybe it's just me being selfish, but I, I would say, like, I would just want to make sure that he knew so much that I loved him so much and make sure he knew that and that I was never, ever, ever sad when he got sick or disappointed. Like, that always was my struggle, you know, even in all these conversations, all when people would always be like, oh, it's okay to, you know, grieve him even when he got sick, because, you know, it's a different life. And that always, as, you know, pissed me off because I was like, no, he's enough. He's enough has how he, and it, it doesn't matter that the first eight months of his life and the next, like, three and a half years were so different. Like, I just, the one thing that can keep me up at night is that if he doesn't know that and I know he does that because I tell him all the time. But I just, if he was here, right, I would make sure that he knew that. So.
- [15:15]
B
Yeah, yeah, I, I, I know he let things go. Yeah, I know he knows that. Especially from you. And now. Yeah. What does 15 years without Jake feel like?
- [15:25]
A
It feels like shit. I was gonna say that's, that's a no brainer. It feels, it feels sad and hard and it makes me angry and it makes me wish that Ethan had a brother and that we had two kids and especially now that we're having such fun with. Ethan is like an adult, young adult, like child that you do different things with. I just wish we had that. You know, the plan was to have two kids and I was supposed to be a boy mom to two and it just wasn't in the cards. But it sucks. So I can't, I can't twist that one positive.
- [16:08]
B
No, not at all. No.
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A
What has surprised you about how Jake continues to influence our choices, our family and Jake's help from heaven? And we sort of talked about this.
- [16:17]
B
Yeah, I mean, I'll start backwards and you know, from Jake's help from heaven, I mean, when I share how much we've been able to support members of our community and you know, we're doing it in Jake's name, it is astonishing the fact that we have been able to give away one point of it.
- [16:41]
A
Close to $1.8 million.
- [16:42]
B
I mean, you know, just, and again, you know, a lot of our donations are smaller donations and you know, it's because people care about the work that we're doing and we're able to do it, you know, to help individuals that were like Jake. And it's a very giving community. So I forget the specific part of the question, but you know, that what surprises me is just how powerful we've been able to have or create Jake's help from heaven. And clearly, without a doubt, it's the work that you do. So thank you. Was it family?
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A
So, yeah. What has surprised you about how Jake continues to influence our choices in our family? Because you're Jake.
- [17:28]
B
Yeah. So, you know, it, it, it influences our family. I mean, because it's, Jake is briefed through everything we do, even if he's not on the forefront of our mind at a particular moment. There is not a day that goes by that we're not thinking about Jake and being influenced, or at least for me, you know, by Jake and his, who he was and what he experienced when he was here. So I mean, it impacts know me and Our family. And we talk about it, I think, all the time. And what was the first.
- [18:08]
A
Just our choices, which is kind of intertwined.
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B
I mean, one thing is you're sitting on a sofa that we cannot get rid of because it was a sofa that, you know, Jake was on, not.
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A
The one he died on that I referenced earlier.
- [18:25]
B
No, sorry.
- [18:26]
A
Was that blunt?
- [18:27]
B
So, no, I mean, I think, you know, we, you know, there's things that we hold on to because of Jake. You know, the. The red Jeep, you know, when we, when we got that, you were like, wait, Jake's never been in this vehicle. You know, but we, you know, but it was red, which was Jake's color. And, you know, so there are several things, you know, that over the years we are making a decision and, you know, we're thinking, you know, and Jake comes into it a little bit, and I am sure that will continue into the future.
- [18:58]
A
Well, it's funny because I think that's one thing that people don't understand about, like, long term grief or maybe loss of a child. Long term is. Is exactly those examples, right? Like you hang or I hang onto any connection of him because he's not here anymore. And it's funny that you referenced the Jeep, because on my walk with Mary Gavin today, she was saying somehow we were talking about something. She's like, oh, would you ever sell your house? And I was like, no. I basically had a breakdown when we got rid of the Volvo that Jake was in because Jake was never in the Jeep. And you know what I mean? So. So I just was telling that story just this morning of like, I could never sell the house. Are you kidding me? I'd probably have to check me in.
- [19:42]
B
That's how he impacts our. Our family and our friends. And I even that conversation today.
- [19:47]
A
Yeah, I mean, always so. And I was gonna say the one thing about our choices. Cause this is also always front of mind to me, so. Jake died, as we know, in December, in that March. You probably won't remember the timing of it. Maybe you will. We took Ethan to Disney. And in my mind it was. We are this grieving family. We have been through this horrendous last few months. Like, Christmas was a blur. My birthday was a blur. His birthday was a blur. And I remember being like, ethan's in kindergarten. It's time to go to. You know, we were figuring out a way we would be able to take them to Disney. And we were gonna drive and all of this stuff. Cause it was gonna be so hard to do with Jake that we I flipped it to be like, let's go to Disney now. We can go to Disney now. And we will bring Jake with us. And it, for me, has guided so much of our travel and our experiences and our life, because when he was here, not just because of his age, he wasn't able to, you know, we couldn't take him on a plane. We had the greatest doctors at Mass General, but they were like, we don't know. You know, there's fluid up there. Like, there's things that it's not safe, you know, So I always. It's why I get a little bitter when people are like, oh, it must be nice. You travel so much. Yes, it's fantastic. We are blessed. We can travel.
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B
But.
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A
But it remains in my choices as a way to bring Jake around. I. I'm able to. We're able to bring Ethan tons of places and provide him with college and all of these things. It's in my way, what we can also do for Jake.
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B
When you think about where we are today as a family, as a couple, where does Jake fit in?
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A
I feel like I kind of answered that.
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B
Yeah.
- [21:37]
A
Feel like we both kind of did. But I would say what I just said about traveling, that kind of goes right in. And I think, you know, the couple question's always a big one, right. Because there's so many people who lose a child and they don't make it, and we have. And I think that one of the reasons are. Is because while we don't. Be careful how I say this, because I like what I was just sort of saying, like, we don't grieve openly, like, in the way that I feel like we're not like negative Nellies, but we respect each other. Like, I know when you get that, the chill thing, I know that you go to the cemetery at this point, like, more than me, and that you've got your ritual and that it's important to you, and I love that space for you. And I know that, you know that I'm doing, like, this writing and this talking on the podcast, and this is my way of working through it. So we can do things separately, but it allows us to then be healthier together. And I don't know that. That it's probably me overanalyzing some of that, but I think that we keep him present, but we don't dwell in the horrible part of it. We allow each. Like, each of us have our. Like, there's no way that it's not horrible, but we don't live in that negative Space.
- [22:58]
B
How has grief changed our marriage?
- [23:00]
A
I feel like I just answered, let's.
- [23:01]
B
Say over these 15 years.
- [23:07]
A
I do think, you know, it's funny. This is what I'll say. You and I met, like, the story of us, right? We met at that. Whatever that was. Training, teacher training. Brian was a principal. I was a teacher. Different schools. He asked me, you know, said hello to me and whatever. I was kind of an asshole because I was so hungry. I just wanted to go to lunch. So I kind of blew him off. But then he tracked me down and we went on a date, and what, three months later, we were engaged, and five months later, we were married, and eight months later, because I was pregnant when we got married, so my math is probably not mathing, but we had a kid and bought a house and bought a car. Like, we did all of those things in under a year that you're never supposed to do, right? Like, they say, you do more than one of those things, and it puts all the stress on a marriage. We started with, I don't know, two crazy kids in love with. Did whatever. Like, and then, I think, you know, there's so many times along the way where things could have just gone awry, but I think that we just remained so bonded by our beautiful boy that I just don't. I don't know. I think we became. It's like we. We went through this horrible thing together, but we also went through so many great things together. We. We had him, we had our families. We had Ethan. We've got Serena. Like, we just kind of matured and grew up together, even though we weren't babies. Like, we. You know, you had Serena already, and you had been married and I had been married, and. But we found each other and just, I don't know, through caution to the wind. And I think that has. It's sort of how we started, and it's kind of how we're living now. Like, we don't. We do the best we can with what we've got, and it's works most of the time. Yeah.
- [25:12]
B
You know, it was.
- [25:14]
A
Can you imagine if Ethan, like, was like, oh, I met someone. I'm engaged. We're getting married. Oh, by the way, I'm pregnant. Like, my parents must. Even though I was older, they must have been like, what the holy hell is happening?
- [25:26]
B
Yeah. Yeah. No, we probably try to shut that down quickly.
- [25:29]
A
Yeah.
- [25:30]
B
No, I think, you know, for many people, it would have been easier to, as I say, you know, cut bait.
- [25:37]
A
You know, And I've never heard you Say, cut bait before.
- [25:41]
B
Well, I just got back from, you know, Plum island, so. Yeah, no, I mean, but that. That's the easy way. Okay. You know, something devastating has happened. Let's just, you know, you know, move on. And, you know, you know, for us, we kind of. I'll even say double down. You know, we said. I mean, we're. We're gonna figure out how to do this, you know, together and to do it as a family and, you know, figure out how to not let this break us, but to make us stronger. And again, it's not a lesson that you want to have to learn, but, you know, I. I feel we. We chose, you know, the path of, you know, making this, you know, into something that we were not gonna say, we were not gonna give up.
- [26:28]
A
In some ways, I think it gave us more reason. Right. Like, the. And I'm not saying that if Jake didn't die, we would have divorced. That's not at all what saying. But I feel like it. There's more skin in the game. Like, I was like, this is. I don't know.
- [26:40]
B
But for some reason, we're the only.
- [26:42]
A
People who think that way.
- [26:43]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [26:44]
A
Are there things you still hope to do that we haven't yet having to do with Jake, like, in his name? Like, do you have goals, thoughts, any of those things of what we could still do to keep his memory?
- [26:58]
B
I mean. I mean, no, because. Because I don't feel that we're. We're lacking for anything. I, you know, love the fact that we have an endowed scholarship at UAlbany that's, you know, in Jake's name, and that will go on forever. So, you know, the university, I think, is 180 years old, and, you know, when it's 360, you know, there'll still be a Jake Alexander Strider scholarship, you know, going to a deserving student, and I think that's. That's exciting. I think, you know, we have a lot to try to figure out with Jake's help from heaven, and, you know, where that's going. And I think it's, you know, exciting times, you know, that, you know, we're having these conversations with the board and trying to figure things out, but I think, you know, we have been able to do some really exciting work and support a lot of people. And, you know, so I'm. I'm not. I'm not. I feel. I feel we've got a lot going on.
- [28:04]
A
I don't. I. Yeah, I agree. I'm sure there's always, like, you know, you never know what's down the path. Like, there could always be, like, opportunities. But I don't. I agree. I don't. There's not something where I'm like, oh, we have to do that. You know, I. Sometimes we were walking the other day and we were, you know, there were the bricks in memory of 9 11. And that's not an appropriate thing to commemorate Jake with. But I do think sometimes of. I, like, I love those ideas, right. Where you buy a brick somewhere or you do something. So I do sometimes think about, like, oh, some of those little opportunities where, like, wouldn't it be cool if there was just a brick with his name that lived forever somewhere?
- [28:43]
B
We talked about the tree in Congress Park.
- [28:46]
A
Oh, we did talk about that.
- [28:47]
B
Just we. We need to make that happen. Because that. I would love to.
- [28:50]
A
Yeah.
- [28:51]
B
Do you want to talk about what that is?
- [28:53]
A
Well, I was going to say so. So in a. In last season, we had a roundtable discussion with the Best family. Bob Best, who tragically passed away on your birthday. And his family shared on, in part of the conversation that they were able to buy a tree in Congress Park. And his daughter Allie talked about how, like, for her, she go, like she grabs a coffee and walks to Congress part and sits there and has a conversation with her dad if she's having a bad day or, you know, they decorate it. And after I had recorded that, we went for a walk and we found his tree. It's true. We did talk about that. That would be cool.
- [29:33]
B
That's my takeaway from today.
- [29:35]
A
And Jeff, who I interviewed yesterday, was talking about, I think off. Off camera, was talking a little bit about a bench. Like, he got a bench on Congress. No, in Congress park on Broadway. He wanted it in Congress park, but they're giving it to him on Broadway just with his son's name.
- [29:53]
B
Yeah.
- [29:54]
A
So that might be kind of nice.
- [29:55]
B
That would be nice. Yeah. What do you wish people better understood about a family still after grieving. Still grieving after 15 years?
- [30:05]
A
So I feel like I touched on this a little bit and when I touched on it, because I knew this question was there. And I've been thinking about it, like, kind of since I wrote it down because. And I do think this is sometimes in the show, you know, we. We do this show for people who have lost, so they don't, you know, so there's a community and they don't feel alone. But we also have some of these conversations so that people who are friends with those who have had major losses or maybe not even Huge losses, but losses know what to say. And I think about that question in that lens. Like, I think this is a chance to sort of share with people. I don't want to say do's and don'ts, but sort of do's and don'ts. And I think the fact is, you know, there is no timeline with grief, right? Like, there's no. It's not this linear thing that, you know, you start here, life is horrible, and then you are okay. Like, it's just. That's just not how it works. And I think that people often want to think that that's how it works and they want you to go through, you know, the five stages, or is it now six stages of grief through this, like, very, you know, linear passage. And in fact, it's, it's just not like that at all. And I think I, I just want everyone to figure that out, right? Like, just because it's been 15 years does not mean. And you. I think we both. But we've referenced this, right? Like, not a day goes by that you're not. He's not in our, our thoughts, ideas, sadness, happiness, anything. Like, he's just present. And maybe it's not that, like, gut wrenching. Like in those early days, like when how I opened this with like, where you just. I couldn't even breathe. I was so, like, you know, raw and full of pain and anguish and all of those things. It's not that anymore, but it's still there. Like, it can still make me feel like I want to throw up 15 years later. And I just don't think people think about that. Like, I think they think, you know, it's a stupid shit. People say time heals all wounds. Well, it doesn't, you know, it absolutely does not. Fifteen years later, it's different, but it still is horrible and raw and could just make me cry. So I think that that is what I would want people to be cognizant of. Do you have anything to add?
- [32:33]
B
It's just different, you know, 15 years later and, you know, at no point do you ever think that you will bury your child. You know, I mean, we think of, you know, the circle of life and, you know, I, you know, it was crushing when my parents passed, you know, but I, I hope I live to be 85 and 86 years old. I mean, they, they lived a good life. You know, Jake got, you know, cheated. You know, he didn't even really get out of the, the starting gate to stop to live his life. So, you know, that's why? It's. You get choked up because you want so much more for. For your kids. You want that next generation to be, you know, everything that you have and more and better. So.
- [33:25]
A
And I think, you know, you were talking about, like, the loss of a child and that stuff, and I remember when. When Liv died and Melissa was like, am I ever going to have fun again? And that always stays with me because I think that is the hardest thing to figure out. Like, in the beginning, you don't think you're ever gonna have fun again. And then when you have fun, it feels guilty. And then you could, you know, like us at this point in our life. Like, you know what? I just did a Instagram post about our summer of fun. Like, we had such a fun summer. Like, we said yes to everything and maybe too much. You know, like, all the. All the fun. But that doesn't mean. And you'll laugh because you know where I'm going with this, but it doesn't. It's a whole two things are true. Like, I had a great summer of fun. Like, probably ate too much and drank too much because these pants are tighter than they were at the beginning of the summer. But I had fun. And we surrounded ourselves by the people who we love, and it's worth having it, but that all of that fun is always going to be dimmed for the rest of our lives, no matter how great it is. So, yes, you. You know what I mean. Like, I just think that it's just not black or white. How has losing Jake shaped the way you've parented Ethan as he's grown into a young man?
- [34:43]
B
What I'm thinking of and what's cracking me up is how you have parented Ethan.
- [34:48]
A
What's that? Oh, like psycho.
- [34:50]
B
Yeah, a little bit. You know, remember when we were. We were walking along a path one day, and it was raining, and, you know, we had ponchos, and you were like, all I can see is Ethan slipping. And me and Ethan, I mean, we're like. We're good.
- [35:05]
A
As you know, I see dead people and I see dark things.
- [35:09]
B
Ethan's like, mom, I am more stable than you. Soften you can focus on you. Yes.
- [35:15]
A
That was a horrible day, by the way. We were at that. I don't even know how to say it. Ausable. Chasm. Chasm. Or something outside Lake Placid. And it was so slippery, and it was very difficult for me.
- [35:31]
B
For you?
- [35:31]
A
Yeah. And he was running. He was the age where he ran through everything. God, it was horrible.
- [35:37]
B
Because they can.
- [35:38]
A
Well, what if he couldn't?
- [35:40]
B
So, but wait, this is. So how, how have I, I parented.
- [35:44]
A
Yeah. It has nothing to do with my parenting.
- [35:45]
B
I, I feel I have not tried to make it influence or impact how, how I, you know, have, you know, grown with Ethan because I don't know if it, that, because for me, I don't know if it's fair to Ethan. So I, so I, I would say I, I, I, I didn't let it impact that. I, I, because I, I would not want Ethan to not experience something because I wanted, I would want to hold him back. I would not push him to do something, you know, because, you know, Jake couldn't do it, you know, so I mean, I, I, I think the way it's probably impacted me and you said this before about being compassionate and, you know, I, I have probably, you know, worked or taught Ethan or, you know, tried to encourage him to be, you know, compassionate person, but I don't know that necessarily even that that's because of take. I think, you know, we're trying to figure out how to be better in our world and our society, especially right now where there's so much going on. So I think, you know, we have tried to just be with Ethan, to be a good person. You know, if you're, you know, work hard, you know, be kind and work hard. I mean, if you can live up to those two, you know, morals, then you can be successful. You need an education. Yes. You need a work ethic. But, you know, if you can have a character, you know, that's kind, you know, that goes a long way. Now, what, what's the saying? You know, character is what you do when people aren't looking. You know, and I, I want him, I want his character to be, I want to do the right thing. And nobody will know.
- [37:39]
A
I am. I know I am. I think that was it. I'm glad you got that question, because I think that, Well, I have. All of that, I would say, is sort of true with me too. Like, it has influenced my parenting of him because I'm so scared of anything ever happening to him. And while I try, have always tried to keep that in check, like, my head is just such a crazy place of chaos sometimes over the just mere thought. And I'm just not as good at, like, I keep it away for most of the time, but there are times when it just terrifies me.
- [38:19]
B
Yeah.
- [38:19]
A
Yes, it, and I think it will terrify me for until I die.
- [38:22]
B
No, and, and it, yes, it terrifies me as well, you know, I mean, when that creeps in, then, you know, then I, I say, hey, it, you know, he's 20. He has to experience the world as a 20 year old. And next year, you know, what's 21 like, you know, and you hope. We just did a great job of teaching him right from wrong and making.
- [38:47]
A
You can just monopolize it like I do and just bribe him with the year of 21 trips. Well, we are out of questions. Brian, I, I always love having you on the show and I think this one was extra special because. And you had referenced it and we are, we're recording season three in our home on our third floor on the couch that was in our original house and now is up here in this house. And it's in so many ways the couch that was our. A very young family in our family adapting before Jake got sick and after Jay got sick. And I always, I can't not sit on this couch and think about feeding him and thinking about little Ethan being like family sleepover. And all of those nights, I don't know how we did it where the four of us would sleep on this pullout mattress that was like an inch thick and it was just so uncomfortable. But there's something about having these conversations in this space that just feels really good to me. So thank you for being a part of it.
- [39:58]
B
Thank you for allowing me to join you again.
- [40:01]
A
Thank you for listening to A Place of Yes. I hope today's conversation brought you comfort, connection, maybe even a little bit of hope. If it did, I'd love for you to subscribe and share this episode with someone who might need it to see you next time on A Place of Yes.