Dead Parent Club: A Low-Pressure Space for Big Feelings

Summary

A Place of Yes | A Grief Podcast

Episode: Dead Parent Club: A Low-Pressure Space for Big Feelings
Host: Heather Straughter (Jake’s Help From Heaven)
Guest: Jordan Sondler (Illustrator, Author, Co-founder of Dead Parent Club)
Date: October 29, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, host Heather Straughter welcomes Jordan Sondler, illustrator, educator, and co-founder of Dead Parent Club—an audio-only online grief community. Together, they dig into the messy reality of grief, the shifting nature of memories, the healing power of art, and the necessity of open, honest community. Jordan shares her deeply personal journey after losing her father at 14, how art became her language for big feelings, and what makes Dead Parent Club a uniquely low-pressure, comforting space for grievers worldwide.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Starting with “Yes”: Recent Moments of Openness

[01:45–03:55]

• Heather and Jordan share recent things they’ve said “yes” to:
  • Heather commits to writing regularly about grief, getting published in Newsweek, Business Insider, and submitting to the Washington Post.
    • “I kind of said yes to myself as a writer.” (A, 02:44)
  • Jordan moves in with her boyfriend after eight years single. Their shared experience with parental loss brings unique understanding:
    • “It feels like a gift. It’s hard. It feels like a gift.” (B, 03:55)

2. Complicated Memories and the Passage of Time

[04:29–10:56]

• Jordan describes her dad: fun, supportive, but an alcoholic—complicated and deeply loved.
• Time makes grief surreal: “It’s now been 20 years…so many memories and feelings… I don’t know if it’s photos or other people’s memories or if I can trust my own memory.” (B, 04:47)
• Discussing difficulty of holding on to memories as years pass; Heather notes the pain of time moving further from their loved ones.
• The challenge and comfort of photos and mementos: can be both joyful and painful reminders.

3. Art as Healing & Connection to Her Father

[11:09–17:15]

• Jordan always gravitated towards art, encouraged by her father and teachers:
  • “It was like speaking another language for me.” (B, 12:29)
• High school art teacher was key support post-loss.
• Creating comics as a way to process grief, notably first comic about her dad's alcoholism.
• The creative process is powerful but can be intensely activating, especially around milestones/reminders like Father’s Day.

4. Naming Hard Feelings Publicly

[17:15–19:59]

• In college, making personal art helped Jordan accept herself and connect to others:
  • “I can name these uncomfortable feelings. I can start kind of processing it through my art.” (B, 18:15)
• Audience validation reduces isolation: “It’s encouraging to know…other people connect.” (B, 18:32)

5. The Isolation and Universality of Grief

[19:59–23:52]

• Despite universal elements, grief feels intensely personal:
  • “It feels really bad. It feels very personal and very isolating. Except for when you hear other people say…the thoughts that are racing through your mind.” (B, 20:40)
• Community spaces like Dead Parent Club reveal how common so many experiences and feelings are, even among strangers.

6. The Dead Parent Club: Origins and Philosophy

[21:03–24:39]

• Founded by Jordan and friend Bridget Beador during the pandemic on Clubhouse, now running monthly for 4.5 years.
• Accessible and low-pressure: audio-only, attend as you wish, speak or just listen.
  • “Because it’s audio only, you can be cooking dinner. You never have to say anything.” (B, 23:52)
• Open definition of “parent”—inclusive of all who feel called.

7. The Surprising Comfort of Grief Groups

[24:40–29:40]

• Jordan admits skepticism due to bad group experiences (diet meetings, ACOA); contrasts with Dead Parent Club’s welcoming, loose structure.
  • “It just feels so healing…it’s remarkable because we’ve all lost parents in different ways…But there’s so much commonality.” (B, 25:26)
• No need to speak; just being present is meaningful. Longevity among members.

8. How the Club Works: Format and “Rules”

[29:41–32:09]

• Introductions include name, age, who was lost, how they passed (if comfortable).
• Discussion flows naturally—whatever’s on people’s minds. No forced agenda.
  • “If you want to talk for an hour, that’s fine. That’s why we’re here.” (B, 36:53)

9. Aloneness, Social Expectations, and the Shifting Grief Landscape

[32:09–40:07]

• The “aren’t you over it yet?” question comes up repeatedly.
• Society often lacks understanding until directly affected by loss; validating, compassionate spaces are essential.
• Heather and Jordan discuss how community presence eases the pressure on relationships where others “don’t get it.”

10. The Cost of Holding Space for Others (as Group Leaders and Creators)

[34:27–36:32]

• Jordan reflects on balancing her own grief with facilitating for others:
  • “I’ve realized over time I don’t get out of the Dead Parent Club grief group what attendees get out of it, but I get something different…a sense of community…” (B, 34:37)
  • She finds therapy and separate outlets meet her personal processing needs.

11. Shifting, Personal Rituals for Connection

[41:45–47:38]

• Jordan’s connection to her dad changes over time—rituals evolve, sometimes waning, sometimes returning.
• Honest reflection on guilt, comparison, and non-linearity of connection (“I used to talk to him all the time…now I feel like the only time I really talk out loud is when I’m at a very low point.”—B, 42:36)
• Shared insight: “You’re trying things on…It’s a lifelong journey…there’s always going to be different seasons to the grief.” (B, 47:07)

12. Spirituality and Signs

[44:08–45:22, 53:32–54:00]

• Discussion of Laura Lynne Jackson’s book on signs; spiritual communication as comfort.
  • “You don’t need a psychic medium to connect with the other side…They’re saying they've been trying to reach you.” (B, 53:32)

13. Jordan’s Book and Wholeness Beyond Grief

[48:19–51:24]

• “Feel It Out” was born from a place of personal emptiness despite career success; sharing feelings through art led to deeper personal and professional alignment.
• Heather references the “three pillars” theory of life balance; both discuss how grief complicates these existing dynamics.

14. Final Reflections and Taking Up Space

[51:24–54:00]

• Heather: “Especially when we share our lives with other Grievers…all of these are like chapters…There’s going to be times when you feel really connected…and other times it feels less. And that’s kind of sometimes sucky…” (A, 46:36)
• Both underscore the power of honest, unfiltered sharing to lessen isolation and foster hope, for themselves and listeners.
• Closing affirmations of mutual gratitude, encouragement, and practical details for reaching Jordan/Socials.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On being seen:
  “Being able to navigate life on a daily basis with somebody who also feels that and understands it…feels like a gift.” —Jordan (B), 03:55

• About memories and time:
  “So many memories and feelings are…I don’t know if it’s photos or other people’s memories or if I can trust my own memory.” —Jordan (B), 04:47

• On community support:
  “Why do we have to do this alone? …All the feelings are there. All of these same feelings.” —Jordan (B), 20:40

• About the Dead Parent Club:
  “You never have to say anything. We've had people come who are on mute the whole time…You can show up once a year if you want to…” —Jordan (B), 23:52

• About seasons in grief:
  “You’re trying things on…It’s a lifelong journey…There’s always going to be different seasons to the grief.” —Jordan (B), 47:07

• On facilitating groups:
  “I've realized over time I don't get out of the Dead Parent Club grief group what attendees get out of it, but I get something different...” —Jordan (B), 34:37

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Important Timestamps

• Introductions & recent “yes” moments: [00:00–03:55]
• Losing her dad & memory trouble: [04:29–10:56]
• Art and healing: [11:09–17:15]
• Making art about grief; community validation: [17:15–19:59]
• Creating Dead Parent Club: [21:03–24:39]
• How the club works (inclusivity; format): [24:40–29:40]
• Managing community & facilitation: [34:27–36:32]
• On rituals, connecting with the deceased: [41:45–47:38]
• Spirituality, signs, recommended books: [44:08–45:22, 53:32–54:00]
• Jordan’s book “Feel It Out” and emotional wholeness: [48:19–51:24]
• Closing reflections, social info, gratitude: [51:24–end]

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Resources and Contacts

• Dead Parent Club:

  • Clubhouse app: search “Dead Parent Club Grief Group”
  • Instagram: @jordansondler, @bridgetbeador

• Jordan Sondler’s book:

  • “Feel It Out: The Guide to Getting in Touch With Your Goals, Your Relationships, and Yourself”

• Recommended book:

  • “Signs” by Laura Lynne Jackson

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Tone & Vibe

• Warm, honest, and gently humorous; direct about the weight of grief but always leaving space for laughter, weirdness, and hope.
• Both Heather and Jordan validate big feelings, normalize complicated emotions, and champion the healing power of community—however loose, imperfect, or unconventional it may be.

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For anyone navigating grief, or supporting someone who is, this episode is a tender, real, and resource-rich space—reminding us all that we’re not alone, even when it feels that way.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Heather Straughter and this is a place of yes. In each episode we have honest conversations about grief. The messy parts, the unexpected moments, and the ways we begin to heal through heartfelt stories and expert advice. My hope is to offer you comfort, connection, and a reminder that you don't have to navigate this alone. Today I'm joined by Jordan Sondler, an illustrator, educator and author who lost her dad when she was just 14. Out of that loss, she co founded the Dead Parent Club, a monthly audio only grief community that has become a lifeline for people all over the world. We talk about how art and comics have helped her name, hard feelings, what it's like to carry memories that shift as the years go by, and why building an honest, low pressure space for Grievers has changed the way she moves through life. Jordan's perspective is creative, refreshing and deeply real. And I'm grateful to share it with you. I am sitting here with Jordan Sandler and I'm so excited. I've been looking forward to this interview. Jordan's a Brooklyn based illustrator, educator and the author of Feel it the guide to getting in touch with your goals, your relationships and yourself. She's also a fellow Griever. Jordan lost her dad when she was 14 and she co founded this grief community online grief community called the Dead Parent Club. And when I learned of it, this is sort of funny, but it put a smile on my face, which not all grief groups and things do, because I like the, you know, we live with grief and sometimes you just have to have that spin on it. Thank you for being here, Jordan. Welcome to the show.

[B]

Thanks so much for having me. And I know I feel the same way. It's always nice when you find someone else who really gets it. Absolutely.

[A]

We start the show late this season. We've been starting with this idea of like starting a little lighter. Cause you know, we're gonna go into all the things and so I'm going to ask a question. It has stumped people. So I'm going to give an example of an answer. But it's an easy question really. What is something that you have said yes to recently?

[B]

Oh, gosh.

[A]

And it's. Well, it's sort of funny, right? It stumps you because it should be easy. And then as I was thinking, I was like, oh, let me give an example. And then I stumped myself. But I will share that I said yes to. This is kind of like. So I have always wanted to write and I've like blogged and I've Written letters to my son, and I've done all substack and all these things, and finally, I said yes to committing to myself, to doing it. And in making time to write every day, I'm very proud to say that in the last month, I've had two articles about grief written in Newsweek and in Business Insider, and just yesterday, I submitted to the Washington Post. So I kind of said yes to myself as a writer.

[B]

That's amazing. Oh, my God.

[A]

So that's kind of a bigger yes. But also I was torn between saying, like, yes to a friend for lunch, so. So there's also that.

[B]

Right. And recent's kind of subjective. Right.

[A]

Like, we can.

[B]

We can intervene. Want it to be. I was single for about eight years, and it's been 11 months that I said yes to my boyfriend, and we moved in together, and it's been very accelerated, but really great. And he has actually lost his parents. So it's the first time I've been with someone who understands and deals with their own grief. And it has touched everything in my life, like h. Being in a relationship with someone who also holds a lot of space for their grief. And that is completely new to me.

[A]

So that's pretty great.

[B]

That's.

[A]

I think so. It's. It's. Magical is the wrong word. But, like, I mean, when you can share your grief with someone who understands it and it's the person that's so important to you, there is something really special about that.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, being seen in the pain. The confusion that comes on all the time about the pain. And just the reason, like, I don't know, it just touches you in such a. In every way. And so being able to navigate life on a daily basis with somebody who also feels that and understands it. I didn't know that I would ever experience that. And it feels like a gift. It's hard. It feels like a gift. So.

[A]

Absolutely. So let's start kind of with the. Under the grieving umbrella. Can you share a little bit about your dad? I know you were 14 when he passed, but can you talk about him a little bit and about that?

[B]

Absolutely. My dad was so fun and wonderful and so supportive, and it's really sad to me that it's now been 20 years, because so many memories and feelings are. I don't know if it's photos or other people's memories or if I can trust my own memory. That's all stuff that I think gets called into question at a certain point when you're holding vigil for a person for the rest of your life. But he was wonderful, and he was an alcoholic, and so he was complicated and wonderful. And when he was alive, it was very tumultuous, but so much fun. And I felt so understood by him, even just at that young age, so supported. And I went on to become an artist, a career artist, and it was something that I was obsessed with in childhood, and he couldn't have been more excited by it. And I was a couple months shy of 15 when I lost him. It was very confusing, and I was really one of the only. I actually did have a friend who had lost a parent, but for some reason, that didn't really bond us together. It felt very isolating. Back in early 2000s, I didn't have the support that I think is more available now.

[A]

It's interesting because I do think there's a couple things there, right? Like, one is the age, and that 14, 15. Those are difficult years. I always say, sort of under the best of circumstances, like, you can have everything going supposedly good in your life, but they're hard years. And then you throw something in and it just can feel impossible. And I talk a lot about it. When Jake died, which was 2010, you know, so early, it just. There wasn't, you know, like, I talk about social media sometimes negatively, but, like, I do think it's been such an avenue for grievers. Like, there's just a connection and there's other people going through it. One of the things you said just sort of stuck with me, and it was trusting our memories. Right. And I can imagine, you know, once you reach the point where, like, the person, you've been alive longer without the person.

[B]

So weird with them.

[A]

It's weird, right?

[B]

It's so weird. It's so sad.

[A]

It's so sad. It's one of the things when that happened with Jake and then when it was like double the time, then triple the time. All of those years were really hard for me, and I didn't see them coming. It took almost like, when he was gone, 12 years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just like weird numbers in my head that I do, but I was like, I feel like with the big numbers, you kind of feel like, okay, like, at five, Like, I just. There's landmarks, but those were always harder for me because I was like, wait, like, he was only four. Like, I don't know. It's weird.

[B]

Like, it wasn't supposed to happen.

[A]

It wasn't supposed to happen.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

So I think it's interesting, though, when you say that, though, like, when You. You have a hard time trusting your memories. Do you. Do you talk about certain things? Like, do you think of him a certain way still?

[B]

It's so hard. I bet you can relate on the level of this. Probably most people can. You have your own memory and your own feelings and your own grief. And then your family does, right? Like, when you lose a family member or even if you lose a friend, you know, the other friends or the family members remember things differently or experience that person differently. So. So there has been a lot of, like, calling into question a lot of things over the years that I remember differently than my mom or my sisters or my sisters were so much younger than me. So there are things they wouldn't remember at all. There's a lot of pieces to the questioning.

[A]

And then sometimes I wonder, like, does it even matter? Right? Like, if it's. If it's our memory and it's how we. Makes us feel good, it doesn't matter. They want to think of it a different way. They're finite.

[B]

Right. We're not, like, generating new memories with that person. I wish we were, but.

[A]

Absolutely. Do you have a lot of pictures of him around?

[B]

Now that I'm in a new apartment, My partner and I both have not done a great job yet of putting that stuff around, but it's a priority for us. You would never know it. But, yes, I have a lot of photos. I. I did have a lot of photos hanging up of me with him, mostly. Um, and a photo of him and my mom. But, yeah, I need a special spot in my apartment because it is so nice, and it's really activating to look at those photos. Do you feel that way?

[A]

I feel hot and cold with it sometimes. So our house, he's like, there's pictures of Jake everywhere. Yeah, but he was four, right? Like, and now. And Ethan was four.

[B]

Did he live in your house that you're still in? Yeah.

[A]

So this couch that I'm sitting on is a couch that I'm like. It's up on my third floor. But I was like, we can never get rid of this because this is a couch that holds so many memories of Jake. Like, it's like I sat here and I fed him, and we would, like, you know, when he was having hard times, like, he did therapy on this couch. Or, like, we'd fall asleep on this couch. Like, so it's. You know, there's. Sometimes there's.

[B]

It's part of your family.

[A]

It's part of our family. So, like, when we moved houses and Jake came to this house. But like this couch came, I was like, it has to be a part of it. Just because it was so integral in that chapter of my life.

[B]

Absolutely. That makes so much sense.

[A]

The pictures though can be tough because, you know. So I have another son, Ethan, who is going to be 21 in January, which is wild. But there's so many pictures of him everywhere through all the ages. And the ones with Jake just stop. And that, that sometimes is hard for me, you know, so it's like I look at them and I remember and I like. But the more time that passes, sometimes it just seems. I don't know. So I have a love hate with it, you know, you would never know because there's. He's everywhere. But sometimes it just makes me sad. Sometimes it makes me happy. Absolutely.

[B]

Well, I have to say, not having like any of them up, I think it is less painful. But there's joy that comes from seeing them too. It's a double edged sword.

[A]

Absolutely. I totally agree with that. You mentioned that your dad was such a big supporter of your artwork and that you've always. And that was kind of one of my questions, like have you always wanted to be an illustrator and an artist and how incredible that you've made a career of it. It's so awesome.

[B]

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it's been quite a road, you know. When I was a kid, my parents put us on everything. I think basketball, tennis, gymnastics, dance and just try everything on. I'm one of three. So I think they wanted to find ways to get us all out of the house as well. And the only thing that stuck for me, that I actually enjoyed was creating art. I started five or seven going to this art studio in my town after school. And I went until I went to college taking painting classes. I loved it. Once I graduated from, I think probably at like 14, I. There stopped being classes that I could take unless I was taking it with the elderly women in my town, which was fine. So I did that. I didn't have a lot of peers my age, but that's how you know it was very important.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

I kept going. So yeah, I, I was obsessed. It. It was like speaking another language for me. It just came on so naturally. And then in school it was the same for me. I felt so safe in the art room. I. I don't know why. I think because I lost my dad when I was in high school. Some of my teachers would just let me go work on art, you know, during social studies or chemistry. Very weird, but great Yeah. I mean, to me at the time, like, great. That's awesome. And I. I loved my art teacher, who I still have a relationship with. The. The one in high school. That's awesome. Yeah. And she told me about. I mean, I don't even know that she told me very much about illustration, but she said, I think you should go to school for illustration. I said, okay. And so I did. And it wasn't until I was in my major, like, my sophomore year of college, that I started to understand what illustration even was. But it was the right path somehow.

[A]

That's also a little, like, testament to, like, the power of a good teacher. Right.

[B]

Like, oh, I. I really. I think she's one of the sole reasons why I stayed alive at that.

[A]

Age during that time. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

You had mentioned. And I don't remember if it was when we were talking or if it was, like, in the survey, but, like, kind of how art has been, like, kind of healing for you. And I think this kind of is the perfect segue. Like, how has it. Does it still. Like, are you. Is it entwined with your father or is it separate?

[B]

Yeah. I started making comics maybe six years, seven years ago, and I think the first comic I ever made was about my dad being an alcoholic. I don't know why I started so heavy, but I did. Yeah. And a lot of my comics ever since have been about my relationship to grief, whether I'm getting into details about him or just my. My relationship to being a griever. And in that way, I feel really connected to him. And it can feel really activating to work on those pieces. I realized actually how. Just how activating this past, like, Father's Day season, I worked on for the Washington Post and for Option B, both worked on Father's Day related comics at the same time. Wow. It was too hard to do.

[A]

I was gonna say, at the same.

[B]

Time, it was bad.

[A]

That's a lot.

[B]

Yeah. So, yeah, I was just gonna say, I don't think I knew how. How much it took out of me or takes out of me until I was doing both at the same time. I was like, this is a recipe for disaster.

[A]

It's interesting because it's that whole thing about grief. Right. Like, people think that there is. You know, you go through it and.

[B]

You'Re done, or I wish. Right.

[A]

Like, there can be times that, like. And I still don't see it coming. You know what I mean? So you're like, oh, I can do this. I've done something else for Father's day or I'm doing this one. But then you never know the thing that is gonna, like, leave you.

[B]

No.

[A]

Almost feeling like sucker punched. Right. Like, you feel like the.

[B]

The wind is still landmines that you step on. Yeah.

[A]

And I think that is one of the things that in having so many conversations with people that keeps coming up is that, you know, there's. We. We become really skilled at figuring out how to live as grievers and even using that language and that terminology and like, immersing ourselves sometimes in the world of grief. Like I certainly have in the last couple years with all these conversations and even writing about it, like, just all of these things. And I find it really helpful. But then it also, there's. There's a tipping point where I'm like, wait, I just recorded, like, three episodes back to back. Like, I need to, like, chill or, like, do something. Right. Like, sometimes it can just be a lot. I wanted to ask you, and you sort of answered it a little bit. Like when you talked about the, you know, the first comic that you did ended up being really about a, you know, kind of heavy part about your father and your relationship. But do you remember was there something. And maybe that was it, but. Or even something earlier where you were, like, being an illustrator. Being an artist is helping me discover who I am on my grief journey. I mean, did you always know they.

[B]

Were connected or did Totally. When I was in college, I started making personal work. I've lived in a fat body for most of my life, and I've felt very weird for all of my life. And I started making work about the two things. When I had that permission in college, growing up, like, drawing in this after school program and also drawing at school, we were working technically, we were drawing our reflection in a Christmas ornament. Um, it was never very conceptual, which I think is very appropriate at the time that made sense, um, when I entered college. And then I was pushed to draw from my experience and my thoughts. I started to, I think, accept myself while I was making this work and be like, oh, I can name these uncomfortable feelings. I can start kind of processing it through my art. And then the validation that comes from that, from people seeing that and be like, oh, my God, I feel the same way. Is very encouraging. It's encouraging to know that, like, other people connect. But then it's also, like, validating. Like, oh, that wasn't, like, too weird of a thought to have. Like, someone else has that thought. Okay. Okay. So I feel like ever since college, I've been realizing That I can connect to myself and other people emotionally through what I create. And I've still just been kind of stumbling my way around that for. I don't know, the past, I guess. When did I go to college? So I don't know. For, like, 18 years, I've been doing that.

[A]

I feel like so much of that is life, though, right? Like, it's like you find something and it, like, works for you, and even when you do it really, really well and are making a career out of it, you're still sort of. Or at least maybe I'm just validating myself.

[B]

I'm sort of stumbling along, figuring it.

[A]

Out, figuring it out as we go along. And I imagine this, like, because I. I. You know, I. Like I said earlier, I kind of was stalking some of your, like, Instagrams and your work. Appreciate it. There's gotta be something really. I don't know if rewarding's the word, but, like, I know that feeling that you're talking about that people must say to you, like, you put these out there, and they're so personal. But there were a few, and I was like, oh, she nailed it. Like, she got it. Like, oh, thank you. There's so many things, I think, that as grievers or people who are stuck in this journey where even when you know you're not alone, you feel alone. And I think that's what makes it so hard.

[B]

God. Yeah. It's like, by design. I don't know why it always feels that way. I think I have so much more clarity as an adult, especially starting the Dead Parent Club with my friend Bridget years ago. And now we have this community of people who've been coming for the past five years. We have new people coming all the time, but we have so many of the same feelings and so many of the same thoughts, and it's like, whoa, we're all going through it. It feels really bad. It feels very personal and very isolating. Except for when you hear other people say, like, the thoughts that are racing through your mind, and you're like, wait, why do we have to do this alone?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it's the. All the feelings are there. All of these same feelings.

[A]

They're all within us. Right? And it's like, yeah, it's. I do think that in so many ways, this is so great that the world is moving in this place. So you referenced the dead Parent club that you started with your friend Bridget. What? What, like, what made you guys do this? Like, what was the inspiration?

[B]

Yeah. So Bridget Beador, a very Talented, I'd say. Community leader and photographer and artists in general. Started to host a chapter of the Dinner Party, which is a grief group that was specifically for people who lost parents out of her home. And I attended one or two of the sessions. This was, I don't know, like seven or eight years ago. And I. Ever since I met her, I don't know, we both love to talk about and make art about our dead dads. And so I had, you know, that incubating in that friendship. And I had another friend at the time who also had a dead dad. We all lost our dads young. I would always talk to both of these friends about the other one. And then during the pandemic, we just got together and we're like, let's, you know, we're all terminally online. Like, all we do is log into our phone and our laptop and we're all alone generally. So, like, let's create a group on this brand new app called Clubhouse. It is audio only. People in all different countries can be on this app. It's free. And we started, like four and a half years ago, the Dead Parent Club, through that app. And we're still going strong every month. It's just me and Bridget now hosting the club. We used to do it once a week, which was way too much for everyone, and now we've hit our sweet spot. In the past couple of years, we've been doing it once a month, usually the first Wednesday of every month. And people can come and go as they please. We have people who've been coming for four and a half years. And then we'll have someone who just lost a parent a week ago show up. So.

[A]

So, and how. So if someone is listening and wants. They're like, okay, this is. This sounds like a community I want to be a part of. What is. What do they do? How do they sign up? And is it exclusively for dead parents or is it like it.

[B]

It is. I wish it wasn't. But also, we're open to whatever your interpretation of a parent is. We're not. You don't have to provide some sort of, like, birth certificate with that person's name on it. We have had people. Yeah, we've had people come over the years who, like, had a grandfather that was their father figure. And. And that's okay. No one's going to poke holes in the validity of your relationship. That family is so complicated.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And different people mean different things. So however you define parent, like, show up if you've lost a quote, unquote. Parent. It is free. It's online through the app Clubhouse. If you search the Dead Parent Club grief group, I. I believe you'll find us. We have, like, a page through Clubhouse, but you could also find it on my Instagram. Jordan Sondler or Bridget Beador. We post and we have links in our profiles. And because it's audio only, you can be cooking dinner. You never have to say anything. We've had people come who are on mute the whole time. And you can show up once a year if you want to, or you can try it and say, this was not for me. We will not take offense.

[A]

I think that is. You had mentioned you had said something about, like, you didn't know, like, being part of a grief group would change the game in the kind of way it did. Can you talk more about that? Because I think so many people and we talked about this, how it can be so isolating and alone and how you feel better around other people, but still making that step of, like, joining a group or being a part of a group can feel hard.

[B]

Totally. Yeah. I mean, my only experience with that was being on, like, a fad diet for most of my young adult life and being forced into those, like, diet meetings. I was like, I never want to congregate as a group ever, ever again. Yeah. This is depressing. This is sad. This feels messed up. That was my takeaway from that experience from any group.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So it really colored everything for me. I also tried adult children's, adult children of alcoholics and that I. And that could have just been the session. It could have just been me. I. It wasn't the right fit. So then when we started this group, I think it helps that it feels so loose and it feels like friends coming together, even though we are all strangers. I haven't met 99% of the people. I think Bridget's the only one I really know. I haven't met most of these people, even the ones who've been coming for years. But it just feels so healing. It's remarkable because we've all lost parents in different ways on different timelines, have different relationships to the deceased or to our living parents. But there's so much commonality whether someone's parent died by suicide or. Or terminal cancer or someone's lost both parents. I think there are people who've gone on to find more niche, great groups, like people who have lost both parents. I'm sure there are people who've lost parents to addiction who want to meet up with other folks in that sense. But I love the breadth of this group. There's so much commonality, like I said, even though we all have really different experience with how we lost people.

[A]

It's so interesting, I think, what you said, because I sort of am similar to you. Like, I've always been like anti group things for. For some of those same kind of reasons. Right. Like when you. Sometimes you people would get like, I'd be a teenager and it's like, oh, you. Because you do this.

[B]

Like this, Go do this.

[A]

And I'd always be like, I don't. It never felt like who I was. Right. Like I was never. I don't know, I never belonged to one group.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, so then I was like.

[B]

Why would I put myself, you know?

[A]

But I do think there's something so comforting and I love you said something like about it. It's audio only. You can be. I mean, you can be in your like nastiest sweatpants or you can be cooking dinner, or you can be like, you can be doing anything.

[B]

We don't know what you look like.

[A]

Anticipate. Yes. Like it's just. And if you want to be mute and just listen and. Cause that's what works. But maybe you listen. I imagine there's people who will listen and then all of a sudden one day they're like, wait, I want to chime in. How do you manage the conversation? So that's like, now my brain's going like, how does it work?

[B]

Well, to your point. Yeah. We'll also have members who are like in the ceramic studio or doing something where they can't talk, but they'll. They'll just be there as a ghost for the whole session. And that's really cool. No one's pushing them. We had someone who came for, I think two years and never said anything. And that's cool. That's totally fine. It's flattering to know you're getting something from the conversation.

[A]

If you keep coming back, it's gotta be working.

[B]

Right. Exactly. How do we steer the conversation? It's very loose. We start off by introducing ourselves just by name, usually, sometimes talking about our age. And then we mention the person we've lost, what age we were or what age they were. And then if you're comfortable sharing how they passed, and then we kind of just pass the mic down the list. Once we've done that, we ask people, you know, what's been top of your mind this month? And it's always different. Sometimes people will mention in their introductions that they're celebrating an anniversary of someone's death or a birthday, or we might be coming upon holidays, and there will be, like, something we want to call out. Like, did you want to share about that? If they said they just had a really tough experience celebrating something. But, yeah, we kind of just see where people's heads are at, because there's always something different going on.

[A]

And I imagine some just kind of take off on their own. Right. Because someone will say something, and then it's like. Which also makes it so nice, too, because it's not. I don't say not structured, but it's not like, you know, it's just sort of. You get from it what you need, and you put out what you need. And one of the things I find so comforting, the more I talk about grief and the more immersed I get into it and, like, the different people I talk to is that. And you kind of referenced this with your. With your art and with your comics. Like, it can feel so hard to say something because you feel like, I'm such a weirdo. I'm the only one thinking this. But then there's always someone that's like, oh, my God, that same thing happened to me. Or I think the same thing. And. And I imagine that kind of community has a lot of that feeling. Even if someone's responding, it's that sort of like, oh, wait, that thought has been in my head and they just said it out loud.

[B]

Yes. And I think the biggest common thread, whether someone lost someone, like, a month or two ago or 20 years ago is the whole, like, oh, you're not over it yet. Like, oh, we've moved on. The conversation has moved on. Our lives have moved on. But then people who've lost other people, like, for the most part, know that's not how it works. And so I think that ends up being the basis of conversation a lot of times.

[A]

I also feel like, you know, you kind of raised something. Like, I feel like there could be entire sessions of that, of this podcast, of all of it, of just the, like, the things people say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it can be just wild.

[B]

I mean, we didn't have our memories erased.

[A]

Like, no, it's not.

[B]

You don't have, like, your life rewritten. So. Yeah. That you're, like, constantly holding memorial for that person. And. And it's nice to be around other people who understand that. Yeah. And, like, I don't know. We talk about a whole lot of things, but I think it's helped take the pressure off of what I expect from people in my life who haven't experienced that type of loss. I. The older I get, the more people are touched by it because, I mean, you're lucky if you outlive your parents, right? I mean, it's. It feels really messed up and scary. Like, even just thinking about that with my mom, I'm like, oh, don't go there. But, yeah, sooner or later, people deal with this with someone in their life, and. But until they do, a lot of times, people just don't understand.

[A]

It's so true. Right. Like, and I. I've had that. That exact feeling. Right? So, like, I. I live with the loss of my son and. And I've lost other people, but grandparents are just a different kind of thing. My husband has lost both of his parents in the last couple years, and it has really. And I have both of my parents still. And it's a weird place because, you know, like you said, right. Like, I don't know. Like, it's knock on wood, it's not tomorrow, but, like, this is like, it's life, right? Like, this is what happens. Yeah.

[B]

We all expire. We all really mess up.

[A]

It's really messed up. And there's people you love so much, and it's just such a hard. I think some people are just like, oh, get over it. It happens to all of us. But then when you're living it, there's. That's not it. Like, this is. No, you love so big, and you have people who take up such space in your life. Like, it's hard to imagine life without them.

[B]

Yeah. Our worlds revolve around other people in it. Yeah.

[A]

So this. I kind of. I hope I can phrase this question right because it's something I have been thinking about from another conversation I had with someone. And I think it's this. I. I have a hard time with this personally, so I'm kind of curious because I think from someone who also spends so much time in the grief space when you provide a service, and I don't even know that that's the right way to say it, but when you hold space for other people's grief, right? Like, when you are a person that is kind of that, like, conduit for other people to process their grief, how do you. Do you balance that with your own life, your own healing, your own ability to do that? And I don't know that. Like, I know that it's hard. Like, I find these conversations so good for me, selfishly. Right. Like, and even when we started the foundation in my son's memory, I would always say this I was like, yes, we're doing really good work for kids that were sick like him. And we're doing all like. I'm really proud of the work. We do it. But the selfish reason is I'm like talking about Jake all the time. Like, he's my inspiration. I can talk about it. So I feel, though, that sometimes I become this person for other people and it's no longer about my loss and my feelings. It's about helping others through it. So I just wonder if you feel that way and if you do have the cruise director.

[B]

That's what it feels like. Yes.

[A]

Now this is a come along, this journey with me. You direct, you go this way. No, it's very true. So how do you. How do you work?

[B]

That's so real. That's such a good question. I think that I've realized over time I don't get out of the dead parent club grief group what attendees get out of it, but I get something different that is also just as great, which is a sense of community, like being around a group of people who are. Have the same feelings and thoughts. So it totally normalizes it and like I said, takes my expectations, like, lowers them way down. For people in my life who don't get it, I just don't care anymore, quite frankly, because I'm like, oh, I've seen the other side. There's a whole world of people who do get it. So if you don't, that's fine. Like, yeah, wait, this is not. That's not where a relationship goes. I don't have that expectation. That's something that's been, like, had a huge impact on my life. Like even, you know, family processes grief differently. I wouldn't say I actively process my grief about my dad with my family. And so it's just coming to terms with the fact that, like, there's different people in your life for different things. I think the group has taught me a lot. But as far as if I'm feeling really, really low in my grief about my dad, it's not necessarily geared towards that for me because I think I'm more hyper vigilant about other people having a good experience and feeling seen and heard. But I. I don't need it to be that because I'm in therapy and I have other people in my life who get it and I'm getting just as much out of it. And I'm. It's not that I'm not volunteering information, but I do feel like I'm on during the group, carrying on the conversation and responding in lulls. Yeah.

[A]

Like, so if there's silence. Right. It's like falls on you to.

[B]

We have gotten to a good place where we realize we don't have to fill every void.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Because like you said, like, people pick up the conversation and kind of take it, especially people who've been there for a while now. And I think it encourages new members to realize, oh, this space is for me, like, there's no hierarchy. There's no.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

Too much. Like we're always reminding people who are like, oh, God, sorry, I'm spiraling. It's like, that's why we're here. We have an hour. You can, if you want to talk for an hour, that's fine. Yeah, that's why we're here. Yeah.

[A]

So I struggle, especially when I started with this podcast, of always having to fill, like, quiet, where sometimes when I just would learn to sit and let the guest or even myself, like, think about what was just said, another question would come or a follow up comment would come. And it's especially. I think that is true of all things. Like sometimes we just. Or I. People want to feel quiet.

[B]

Oh, me too.

[A]

You know, like it, like, but if we are, if we're comfortable with like a little bit of quiet, there can be such magic that comes out of it. Yeah.

[B]

And. And you want to make other people feel comfortable. And inherently you think, you know, being engaging and probing with questions and making someone feel seen. But there's all different ways to do that and like preserve your energy and your peace too.

[A]

And I love also what you said, you know, when talking specifically about like the Dead Parent Club, but I think this applies to so many things, is that people are good. Like, you can have. I don't know if there's a hundred people there. There's a hundred different things coming out of that and they don't all have to be the same. And that is, I think, for me, and I'm curious if you agree with this or not. Like, I think that the, the grief world has shifted so much, you know, and I'm considerably older than you. But like, when, even when Jake first died, like my parents, like, older people, like, you didn't talk about it. Right. Like, there was this very. Like, even my relatives who don't talk about people who've died, like, they just compartmentalize their lives. And it took me a really long time to sort of be comfortable in like, no, we can talk about this. This is how we honor our people. Like, this is How I make meaning of what it is. And it can look all of these different ways, and there's no right or wrong. Where I think there used to be this, like, no, you know, there was the stages, and you do this, and it's linear, and you start here and here. And we sort of know that's all nonsense now, but some people still want you to fit into that box.

[B]

Right. But by breaking it, you are setting an example for people. Not. Not everyone is going to absorb the. The way you're navigating through your grief. Not everyone's going to take that on for themselves. But I. It has been really rewarding when I have people in my life, whether it's my siblings or friends. Be like, I started therapy because I felt really encouraged by you, or I, I'm looking for a grief group, or. I don't know. When you just see a shift and. And it feels like it's because you've made a safe space and you've just been really open about your journey, that feels really encouraging. Especially when it's people who you might not have felt connected to in that way before, and you're like, oh, my God. Okay. Yes. It's like having a positive impact on people outside myself.

[A]

Well, it's interesting, like, because it's sometimes it's not even like, the friends or family that make the most impact on me. It's like the random person who's in wherever. And I imagine this with the grief group, too. Like, you probably have people all over who are taking an hour of their month to log into this because they know you are providing a safe space. And I feel like that is kind of cool, too, that we now have the ability to just share our conversations that, frankly, I find so beneficial. Like, so it's almost. Again, I'm always like, it helps me, and if it helps someone else, even better.

[B]

Totally. And these people have become my friends, and we've never met. And some of them, I've only ever just seen, like, the icon that they.

[A]

Have in that podcast, you know? Yep. That's cool.

[B]

A lot of them. And then when we, like, find each other on Instagram, like, oh, my God, you're a whole person, not just the voice.

[A]

So cool.

[B]

But we don't do a good job, which is fine. I think it keeps it sustainable for us. We don't do a great job of recruiting new members or really publicizing the group at this point, because neither, you know, no one's getting paid. So it's. It's got to be something. It's emotionally taxing and it takes up time, so it's got to be manageable. And I think this is the most manageable version for us where it's like, if you know, you know, definitely refer people. If you follow us on Instagram, you'll see we remember to post sometimes about it. So sometimes it's a six person group. But that's awesome.

[A]

That's great too, right? Cause it's people who have made time to be there and who want to be there.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

So I want to circle back a little bit because I talk about this with a lot of people and some people really, like, connect with it and some don't. Do you. How do you. Again, this is kind of a. How do you stay connected to your dad in current day? Like, do you. Like. I talk to Jake and I. And it's funny because I have, you know, my son Ethan, and they were 15 months apart. So I try to always like the relationship I have with Ethan in real life. Here, I almost sometimes model with Jake. Like, I have the same conversations that I imagine he would be at 19. Like, I try to. I don't know, I keep him. I try to keep. I'm like, oh, Jake, you'll never believe that happened to me. You know, like.

[B]

Yeah, no, I used to be more like that. I think when I lived alone, it felt easier.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now we're both two people grieving parents in the same household, and it looks different for both of us. His grief is a lot fresher than mine as well, on a timeline perspective. But I feel. I don't like it. But now I feel like the only time I really talk out loud to my dad is when I'm at a very low point. I'm like, I need help.

[A]

Show me.

[B]

Yeah. What are you doing? Yeah, that's kind of. But I used to talk to him all the time. I used to go sit outside my stoop every night and go talk to him. And I love that ritual. I hope I can get back to it, feel more connected, but I don't know. The past year, I think of integrating all of our grief together. It's like finding a new. Finding a new way. I don't know what my way is, and sometimes I feel disconnected and sometimes I feel really connected to him. The book signs. Did we talk about signs that. Oh, my God. Laura Lynn Jackson signs. I will say it's a lot about. She's a psychic medium. It's a lot about her sessions with parents who lost young children. So be prepared.

[A]

I've always Wanted to dabble in this, and I'm just like. I just have, like, oh, then you have to read the book. I will.

[B]

I have to read the book.

[A]

I am. I'm so interested. I'm sorry, but I'm scared. I don't know, like, for someone. Like, I put myself out there. I do all of these things, but then there's something about that that just.

[B]

I felt scared until I. So we're talking about now, like, talking to spiritual guides. I have. I think this book opened me up to the concept years ago. And so now I've talked to several.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Several spiritual leaders. But the point of entry, like, just deciding, I'm ready, I'm prepared. That was hard and scary. But this book pushed. Tipped the scale.

[A]

Okay, so I'm gonna get that book.

[B]

The rewards are, like, outweigh any of my fears. It's really good. Someone brought it up in the grief group in the den, Parent club years ago.

[A]

So that's. I mean, I didn't even think about that. But there's so much, like. There's just so much out there. Right. Like. And if you don't know about it, then it. You know, now I wanted. That's going to be a book I read. Like, that's.

[B]

Oh, totally. We talk about TV shows, books, like, anything that. Where we're like, oh, my God, this did such a good job. And it's so seldom that you see something portraying grief in such a great way.

[A]

No, that's.

[B]

Relatable way.

[A]

Well, it's interesting. And I was thinking of something else you were saying about how you used to talk more and now you're in kind of like this different chapter of your life, and it. It's not. But I will say for me, with. With. With my grief, and I think that this is. It's a good reminder for all of us. And I was. I'm happy you said that because I sometimes, like, I still talk to him, but I don't visit him at the cemetery like I used to. And there were years where I win every morning and I went every night, and then I went once a day. You know, there was. And I just. I go once or twice a week maybe. Like, I just. It's.

[B]

That sounds like a lot to me as someone who goes once a year.

[A]

It's like half a mile from my house. It's very close. But, like. But. But. So what's interesting about that is my husband still goes, I would say, every day.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And then sometimes I'll. I'll feel bad about that. Because I'm like, well, you must, you know, like, what, do you love him more than I do? Like. Like, I make it this weird competition.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which it's not, you know, And I think it's always important for us, especially when we share our lives with other Grievers. Right. Like, that all of these are, like, chapters. And there's. There's going to be times when you go back to sitting on the steep, or you don't, but you do something else. And there's going to be times when you feel really connected. And you kind of alluded to that. Like, sometimes you're like, you can just feel their presence and, you know they're there. And other times it feels less. And that's kind of sometimes sucky, but, like, you know what I mean? Like, I just feel like. Like with everything, there's no.

[B]

It's. You're trying things on.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And it's a lifelong journey. And so something that works now won't necessarily work for you in a year, and you can always come back to it. And. Yeah, it's just. It's different seasons. It. It's weird that the seasons of grief happen, you know, past a year, mark or month. Mark or whatever. I feel like there's just always going to be different seasons to the grief and a different way to relate to it and honor it.

[A]

It's the most. At least for me, like, the most unexpected thing about being a griever. Right. Like, yeah, there is this. You just have an ongoing relationship with it, with. With the person, with the experience, with. With all of it.

[B]

It's weird that it keeps changing because the fact that the person's gone doesn't change.

[A]

Yes, that's. I mean, exactly.

[B]

It should be something you could settle into. And you're like, okay, yeah, that's it. I. I figured it out. Goodbye.

[A]

I figured it out. That's what I was gonna say. Like, it should be something where it's like, okay, like, I've done this enough. I'm good at this. Now let me be. And then it's like. Then it gives you, like, a little pivot.

[B]

No. Every year is different. Every sometimes. Every month is different. My God.

[A]

Every day can feel different some days.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So the last thing I wanted to touch on is. I wanted to touch on your book.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I love it. I wanted kind of. So it's.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Feel it out. The guide to getting in touch with your goals, your relationships, and yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How did that book come to be? Like, was that something you were always kind of like brewing or was it.

[B]

I had just ended a long term relationship and I was feeling really depressed. I got to this place where I became totally disconnected to talking about my feelings and exploring my feelings through art. I had really hit like a high point in my career, actually. I've really found my groove. I was making the money I wanted to be making, working with the types of clients I wanted to be working with, but I was feeling so hollow and so out of touch with myself. So I started to make work that kind of led to the book and just put that work out on Instagram. I didn't know what it was for, but I then kind of built up a body of that work where I was just kind of talking, exploring my feelings and my dissatisfaction with where I was at in life. And I had a friend who had sold a book at the time and loved her agent and put us in touch. And then it just kind of. That was. I feel like this has only happened a few times in my life. It was like one of the. It just. Everything lined up. It just like it was meant to happen. I. I keep waiting for that to happen again with other aspects of my life. I'm like, everything else feels so hard, but that somehow just like came together the way you would want it to.

[A]

That's awesome. Has that. It's interesting. I love that, like, you know, you did say this one piece of, like that one piece is going well, but sometimes the rest of your life isn't. And that is.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah. Like, that's not even grief. Right? Like, that can just sometimes be life. Like you're. I used to have a friend who I worked with and she would talk about like, I have my job, I have my home life, and I have my car, which was just like random.

[B]

And the car always wreaks havoc on your life. I feel like.

[A]

Well, she would always be like, two out of the three will be. Well, like, if my career is going great, my marriage is going great, that car is going to be a disaster.

[B]

I love that. That's a separate part. It's so true.

[A]

And she cracked me up. But I always reference it because it's kind of funny. Like you've got whatever your three things are, right? Like there's always.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, and you throw grief into it. Right? So it's like there's all this and then everything can be going great, but you can be struggling with your grief. Like, it's just, It's.

[B]

Oh, my God. I know. People don't. I think you have to like, Preserve your peace too, sometimes and shield others from that just to get through the day. But it doesn't mean that it's not happening. Like, so activated inside of you and so all consuming.

[A]

Well, it's interesting. It's like, protect your peace is like, one of the things I like to say. It also is. Is wrapped up in like, the title of this podcast. Like a place of. Yes. Like, it's finding the thing that, like, where can you come from? Like, what. What is inside when everything else feels like you don't have control? Like, what. What can I do?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I. I am so grateful for you being on this podcast with me, for being on a place of. Yes. I'm so grateful for you sharing so much of your. Your life and your story and for what you're doing for your community.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Especially the community. Like, like you said, like, they're little icons on your app, right? Like, these are people.

[B]

Yeah. Little dots.

[A]

Little dots. But like, you're. And I think the more we have these conversations and we share our thoughts and our feelings and. And the ups and the downs and the good, the bad, the ugly, all of it. Like, it helps people know they're not alone. So thank you for having this chat with me.

[B]

Well, I'm so honored that you reach out and it's so nice to know you. I. I am so excited to see everything you do. I'm. I'm excited to read all your articles now and your book someday. I hope so.

[A]

I hope so.

[B]

Yes, definitely.

[A]

Something I want to say yes to. Right? Like, it's.

[B]

It's one of the things. Yeah, you will. We know you will.

[A]

So I appreciate the. The confidence. So thank you. Yeah.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

Can you share your Instagram and everything one more time? Just so everyone.

[B]

Yeah, I'm Jordan Sondler. I'm just Jordan Sondler. It's like Sandler, but with an O instead of an A.

[A]

Perfect. Yeah. So thank you so much, Jordan. I appreciate this.

[B]

Thank you truly. You are amazing. And I know your son is there. I believe. I personally believe that, so.

[A]

I do, too. I love that.

[B]

I love.

[A]

I love it. And I love the idea of, like, the more people we meet, like, all of our people just together. Like, I always have this, like, I. I have this, like, I don't know, funny little.

[B]

I know. Well, you gotta read that book.

[A]

I know now so much about that. I was gonna say I'm gonna order it on Amazon, but I'm actually gonna go to the. The local bookstore and go buy it.

[B]

That's a That's brilliant.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And also, I don't know if you're an audiobook person, but Laura Lynn reads it, and I love hearing her. I mean, she's. It's all about her sessions, and it's all about how you don't need a psychic medium to connect with the other side, but because every session she has, she's like, do you remember when you saw this? Or do you remember this or that? And they'll be like, yeah. And she's like, that was a sign. They're saying they've been trying to reach you. So it's so much about that.

[A]

Oh, my God, I have chills.

[B]

Really? Great. Yeah. You're gonna love it. Oh. Tell me what you think, please.

[A]

I definitely will. I will reach out for sure.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Excited? All right. Thank you, Jordan. Thank you for listening to A Place of Yes. I hope today's conversation brought you comfort, connection, maybe even a little bit of hope. If it did, I'd love for you to subscribe and share this episode with someone who might need it to see you next time. Time on A Place of Yes.