B (2:41)

And I think I'm.

A (2:42)

I'm crediting it to my whole, like, I'm trying to be much more, like, let it go, don't worry about it. Like, enjoy the moment lately. And I feel like I didn't go in there and stress about what I was going to do, and I had fun. So that is my. That's my story. So hopefully that gave you enough time to think of something.

B (2:59)

Something that I have said yes to is I said yes to packing up my whole life and moving from my home into a small part of Central Coast California and Paso Rebels to live and work with a horse trainer. And it has been the. One of the greatest gifts of my whole life to be here and to be steeped in his philosophy and to be able to ask so many questions all day long as they arise for me has been really, you know, so much of his philosophy of. Of being with horses and training horses is also a spiritual pursuit and the process of working on ourselves and our own personal development. And so it's like living in a enlightenment think tank with my favorite animals.

A (3:57)

That sounds actually kind of perfect.

B (4:01)

It's amazing. It's. I'm really lucky to be here.

A (4:04)

That's awesome. And that's an. That's an amazing example, honestly, because. And it's sort of, I mean, very different than mine, but it fits into, I think, that spirituality. Right. Like, that mind shift of, like, when we shift our minds and so much in grief, I think, is about perspective and how you look at things, because you can stay in the sadness or you can stay in the horrible feelings, or you can, like, attempt to try. And I'm certainly not lightening anyone's load, but, like, you can really look at it from a different place. And that's where this whole podcast came from and where the whole even title came from of, like, you know, a place of. Yes. Like, trying to have that, like, flip the switch a little bit on how you look at things. And it sounds like you're getting to kind of do that on a ongoing basis, which is kind of cool.

B (4:53)

Yeah. Every day is something different. And he's Always coming down to the arena, and he's like, oh, I was listening to this. This book. Or I was, you know, having this conversation. We. We trade books back and forth a lot. And I just finished my fifth reading of A Lion Tracker's Guide to Life. And it's a book I recommend to everybody, and it's about following the track of your own life and listening to the thing that's inside of you that's sort of calling you forward. And the quintessential line of the book is, I don't know where I'm going, but I know exactly how to get there. And it's about following just that very first track. And as soon as you get a hit or an idea or a desire or something to move in some direction, that's what you follow. And you don't know where it's going to end up. But you track that feeling in your body, you track that aliveness, or you track that sorrow, you track the grief, and you move in that particular direction just one track at a time. And part of tracking lions and part of tracking your own life is losing the track, and that's equally part of it. And then you just come back to that first track again and again. And it's given me and a lot of people who I know who've read it, such a freeing framework for feeling like you have to have it all figured out and know where you're going. And it's. You just look for that first track. I don't know where I'm going, but I know exactly how to get there.

A (6:33)

This is the second recording in a row where I have had a guest who has shared a book that sounds like such my next reading. So thank you for sharing that. And I'll actually. Maybe we'll even put that in the show notes, because that does sound like it. It. I don't know that anybody can benefit from this kind of thing. Right. Like, and I think that, you know, no matter what age, because, you know, I'm. I'm 51, but I'm still. Like, I feel like sometimes I have even more of that than I did when I was, like, much younger. Like, where am I going now? Like, what is my purpose now? Like, you know, who am I when I'm not, like, talking about grief and doing this foundation because I lost a son and then being Ethan's mom. Like, Right. Like, all of that, like, getting back on track. And like you said, being off track is just as valuable as finding your way to the track. But so that kind of segues a little bit into what I really want to talk about with you. And there's a couple different things, but first, I want to start, especially because I opened with it, Birthdays From Beyond. Can you share about that and what inspired you? And I know that you had thought that your father was terminal and some of that came out of that. And if you could just share with the audience a little bit about that timeframe and where the idea of Birthdays from Beyond came from.

B (7:49)

Yeah, sure. So the story wouldn't be complete without prefacing it by saying, my dad and I are very, very close. And we've always had a really easy, wonderful relationship. And for my birthday, every year, he has always given me the greatest birthday cards. And they reflect on things that he admires and appreciates about me. And he points to the tracks that I've been following of my life that he really looks up to or appreciates. And it didn't really land for me just how significant those cards were to me until he got his cancer diagnosis. And I thought, oh, my God, like, there's going to be a day where I don't have anything new of my dad, where I don't get to experience something of him, where. Where I'm not gonna have his reflections or his humor or his wisdom, and that's gonna be really devastating. And so for my birthday, this was a couple of years ago, I handed him a stack of 75 empty birthday cards. That's a big stack. It's a big stack. I gave him a monumental task, and I don't actually expect him to finish doing all 75, but I handed him so many. And I said, dad, would you please fill out these birthday cards for me? And I am going to keep them, and I am going to open one a year, every year after you die. And when he was done crying, he said, you got it. I'm on it. And I didn't really think much more about it until a few months later when we were on a trip together and he just kind of like wandered down the hall, as he's known to do, very early in the morning. He wakes up at like 4, and he's like, who wants to hang out with me? So it's like 6am and he goes, hey, Molly, I was writing some of your birthday cards. And I just thought, you know, I think. I think you're really onto something. I think you could really turn this into something. And if you did, what do you think of the name Birthdays From Beyond?

A (10:17)

I didn't realize that came from your dad. That's even more special, honestly. Right.

B (10:21)

That's awesome. Yeah. And when he said that, it's like I got the whole download, you know, of what I want to do and how I can't be the only person who wants to experience opening a card for the first time from somebody that they love, who's no longer here, to have some kind of. We have the memories of someone. But part of the, part of my anticipatory grief was I'm not going to get the new memories with him. I'm not going to get his new quote of the day or his new take on something and what a loss that is because he's so brilliant. And, and so I was trying to capture lightning in a bottle for me and once he suggested that, I thought, okay, I can't be the only one who wants this. I've gotta do this. And so it all came together very quickly after that, the, you know, the design of it. And I found an assistant because my ADD doesn't let me finish anything at all ever. And so it all, everything. It was like the universe was saying yes. It was a. Yep. This was a place of. Yes. Right. Where the universe was like, aha, here you go. Here's the right person for you to talk to. Here's the right person for you to know, to get this produced. Here's the right, you know, company to work with, who's going to be able to handle the, the, the boxes for you and ship them out for you. Here's your designer. Here's your web designer.

A (11:56)

Awesome. It all fell into place.

B (11:59)

It all totally fell into place. And yeah, it all fell into place.

A (12:05)

So how does it work? So you, you go to the website and, and walk me through that. Like, what does. What. Like, if I wanted to do this because I, if I just think this is such a special service for two reasons. One is you're definitely weren't alone thinking those thoughts, right? Like when I lose my person, and especially when you have a massive health scare or some days when your, your brain just goes there, right? Like, what if there's going to be a day when my dad is gone or my mom is gone or, you know, it's reality and we can think that, okay, we're going to give them this and we're going to do it, but sometimes it's even too daunting. And you were, you know, kind of had the foresight to be like, dad, here's the cards. This is what I want you to do. But the fact that there's a service where we can go online, buy a kit. It just makes it. It makes that initial step, which I would think is the hardest, easier. So walk me through what. What someone would do.

B (13:03)

Sure. So to your point, I. I wanted to make it as easy as possible, because knowing where to start can be pretty challenging. And so you get the box in the mail, and you have your own little card and envelope that you get to open first. That's for you. It says, open me first, and there's some instructions and ideas, essentially, for working on it. And that lightens the load a bit, or that makes things a bit easier, is I've included a bunch of different questions and prompts in there to start priming the pump for what? You want to write a birthday card? Because you can sit in front of this. This box has 15. It doesn't have 75 empty cards. So that load is living a long time.

A (13:57)

Yeah.

B (13:58)

Yeah.

A (13:59)

You are not running any risk of not having having a year without one, right?

B (14:03)

Exactly. Maybe I'll open one on a half birthday. Maybe on, you know, his birthday. I'm, like, really trying to. You love it. So there's 15 cards, and there's something like 50 or 60 questions that you can reflect on, and there's sort of two tracks. You can answer the questions where you reflect on your own life, and you can share some of your own history and your own stories and your own memories and wisdom that you want to pass on to your kids, or you can go down the track that is reflecting on your child and what you love about them, some memory that you have of them that's really meaningful. You may want to tell the story about how great it's been to embark in a golf passion together.

A (14:52)

I know I'm almost tearing up as I think about writing these. Yeah. I mean, it's so. Yeah, it's awesome.

B (14:56)

And this is another piece I. I have to give credit to my dad for, because the. He and I have talked on a handful of occasions about what makes for a good compliment to somebody, what makes for a good. And this could be translated into a birthday card. But he goes, molly, whenever you tell somebody that you appreciate something about them, that's step one. But step two, if you really want to take it deeper, is tell them why you appreciate that about them. And I could say, heather, I so appreciate that you have launched this podcast. But even more so, what I really admire is that you are taking something that you were called to do, and you are bringing it to the world in a bigger way, and you are helping so many people in the process.

A (15:56)

And that's such a good. Like, that's an. You just did a perfect example of the difference of that. Right. Like, of the. The initial compliment versus the. The meat.

B (16:05)

Like, the.

A (16:05)

The guts of it.

B (16:06)

Right.

A (16:06)

And that's what. That's what you want to give through these type of cards or just really, in general, it's a good. It's a good life lesson, really. But.

B (16:14)

Right. Yeah.

A (16:15)

Yeah.

B (16:15)

You know, I mean, so I wanted to. I wanted to set it up so that you kind of couldn't fail with these. And it doesn't have to be a morose adventure that you. That you go on in writing these cars. It doesn't have to be depressing. It doesn't have to be sad. Like, how great to get to reflect on your kids and go, God, you know what I. You know, what I love about you so much is the way that you have a diverse set of passions and that you follow through on them, like, all the way to the bottom of the well. And how exciting it is for me to watch you. You pursue things that you love. What a gift you bring to me in my life by you living in a way that's in accordance to your passions.

A (17:06)

I think you just raised something so huge about this, though, is. Is. It is not morose at all, really. Like, it's really like going into this with the mindset of. That of, you know, when you had said something before, like, when you were thinking about, like, if you had lost your dad. Like, it's. It's. It's these birthday cards. It's these. But it's these memories. Like. And that's the thing I think that is. Is. Or at least for me has been one of the hardest things about, like, loss and grief is that the memories stop. Like, there is a. There is a solid day where you no longer have memories with that person. You no longer have photographs. You no longer have these moments. And the more time that passes, and I always get hung up on the photographs, you know, as something. But. But moments, right. Like, you look around my house and all the pictures of Jake, they stop when he was 4. You know, you look at Ethan and they start at zero, and they're up until he's, you know, he's 20 now. So there's 20 years of pictures. This is a way to. Not really, but it's a way to keep that going. And I just. I find that the opposite of, like, depressing. Right? Like, it's just such a gift. And I would imagine the Receiver. And I'd love to know if you have any. If you've heard back from people who have purchased this and what their thoughts are. But I would imagine that the receiver comes to look forward to these annual cards very much for those reasons. Not to be reminded of the loss, but to be like, reconnected with their person is how I sort of would, you know, and it's like, it's one more memory that is. I don't know if memory's the right word, but it's one more moment that you're able to have with your person when you thought you weren't going to have anymore.

B (18:51)

Exactly. You get to have something new so that you are not only drawing from. This is not the greatest word for it, but the recycled memories.

A (19:02)

Yeah.

B (19:04)

And it is, it's an. It's. It's another new gumball in the machine. It's another, you know, it's something that you don't know. It's something new that you get to experience. And I think that that is. Was the really, the primary, like, driving factor for me in this is I want to experience something of my dad for the rest of my life, not just the rest of his life.

A (19:40)

Yeah. And that. That's very powerful. That's incredible. Have you gotten feedback from people who have used this? Like, do you. Do you get like, reviews is the wrong word. But like, you know, people that being like, hey, Molly, I bought this and blah, blah. Like, if you do, could you share any of those? Because I imagine that's gotta be awesome too.

B (20:01)

Yeah. I have gotten feedback actually in some really interesting ways that I wasn't quite expecting. The first gal who was helping me work on this project, her cousin purchased one and actually used the box to write letters to her twins who she miscarried.

A (20:27)

Oh, wow.

B (20:29)

She is writing these as letters to them as a way to stay connected to their memory each year on their birthday or what would have been their birthday. So she took almost the inverse of it, but said it has been incredibly healing and powerful to have a framework. And, you know, the box comes in this little. It's a nice time capsule box with a ribbon on it. And you can keep it in one place and so you're not apt to lose it. Everything is all just, you know, in one place. And she has this one particular thing that she's been turning to each year, you know, on the day that she has chosen. And it gives her something to do in this memory and in this grief and in this honoring of her miscarried twins. So that was a story I was totally not expecting. But this has come out into the world and people are making it their own.

A (21:38)

I mean, I almost just kind of got chills because, you know, Jake's been gone 15 years. Just about 15 years. And in the beginning, it was really easy is so not the right word. But, like, we would. On his birthday, we would do X, Y and Z, or you know what I mean? Like, and I would bring this to the cemetery and I'd get him a gift. Like, we just had our routines, and as time passes, it gets a little harder, and we still have our, like, kind of family routines, and we try to be together on, like, his. The day that he passed and on his birthday. But I don't want to say you run out of ideas, but you run out of ideas of, like, you know, what else. What else am I going to bring to the cemetery this year? Like, what am I going to do? And what a beautiful connection, you know, what a way to really. And especially if you believe in, like, as I do, of, like, there is this, like, otherworld kind of connection, and, you know, there's this ability to communicate in. In some form or another. And I think, oh, my God, I had not. That is beautiful. And. And for someone, you know, one of my questions was going to be like, what are some of the other relationships? Because it lends itself so clearly to, like, parent, child. But that's beautiful. Were you expecting anything like that or. That was just like, not at all.

B (22:55)

Not at all.

A (22:56)

Right. How cool, though.

B (22:58)

Not one. Not one bit. I thought it was so beautiful and so creative and totally unex. And my initial thought was parent to child or maybe grandparent to grandchild, you know, a. When I launched my sort of beta box of these, I gave a couple of boxes to a former partner of mine and two for his brothers. Essentially what he did was he sent all of these boxes to his dad, who struggles pretty significantly with his eyesight. And so he needed his partner of, you know, 35 years to help him write these cards. And in the process of writing these cards to his three sons, he got to have these conversations with his partner about remembering his kids, writing lessons in wisdom. And so in the process of the two of them creating these cards together, they had all of this time together where they got to reflect on what his life was like, memories of the kids, you know, and it became.

A (24:21)

A.

B (24:21)

Really connecting experience for the two of them, which is also a thing I wasn't entirely expecting to hear about either.

A (24:30)

Well, I feel like I'm ripping everything off now because I'm like, oh my God. I was thinking of doing this for Ethan, but I was like, how cool would it be for like Brian and I to either whether we had our own sets or we like wrote on the same card or like what a walk down memory lane it would be or what a like beautiful way to remember, you know, to. I don't want to say force yourself, but it's so easy to not spend time in the memories, even when they're good ones.

B (24:58)

Right.

A (24:58)

Like you just because life is busy and you know, you, you even reference. Because I think we're similar in this, like fully adhd, like start one thing and then start another thing and I'm here and you don't. I don't sit in like the thoughts. But to create a time where we would sit in something together, even if it was separate is. It's beautiful. It's so interesting how like people have made this their own.

B (25:22)

Yeah. Yeah. I'll. I'll tell you one more story that I also thought was wonderful about someone who made this his own is, you know, he's a super healthy 50 year old dad of two, having a great time in life, not at all thinking about his death. And what he did with this box was in each card he put some. How do I want to say it? Like family history, family legacy. So he put his parents wedding photo in one of them and told a story of his parents because his kids never met their grandparents. And so he is telling the story of, you know, grandma and grandpa getting married. Or he put a baby photo of his wife in one of them. This is what your mom looked like when she was born. Here is the, you know, newspaper clipping of our wedding announcement. Here's a little like token or trinket that was meaningful to me. And so he's actually using it almost as a, like a family legacy ancestry.

A (26:49)

Like passing on the history. Really like the.

B (26:52)

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

A (26:56)

I'm almost like speechless because I thought it was such a great. Well, like it was. It's such a great idea in its like truest form. But then there's all these other spinoffs that really like I'm sitting here thinking about so many friends and family members. I'm like, this is such a. And again I go back to my. Like, this is something that we all want to do, but you don't or I don't make the time in daily life. Whereas just like you said, having this box, having this time capsule, having a tangible thing where you choose either the date you do it, whether it's on a birthday or like, when you. Maybe you do one, you know, every April 15th. I don't know. That's tax day. So it's kind of a weird day to do it. But I. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, you pick a day and do it. You. Then you have no excuse not to. You can't just keep adding it to the to do list. You. You're instead checking it off the to do list a little bit. And I just love it. I love the way that people have turned these into things I love. Like, those are three very unique stories that I would not have thought of, all of which are super powerful and I want to do all of them. Yeah.

B (28:06)

Yeah. They're not things I had thought of either. I thought simply, oh, parents, here, write these cards for your kids. And it has taken a life of its own. A gal who is in some photos on my website was talking to a guy at Starbucks on her way to come to the photo shoot with me, and she told him what she was doing and he said, ugh, my mom died of cancer two years ago, and what I wouldn't give to be able to open up a birthday card from her right now. I mean, that would mean the world to me.

A (28:38)

I mean, that's it, right? That's it right there. You know, I think of. I think of my husband who lost both of his. His parents in the last couple years, and even though they were older and, you know, he still has, like, in his phone, like, he would always as is, you know, they both had a little bit of dementia and Alzheimer's and stuff, so he would always, like, make a point a couple days a week to call each of them. And he's got the, like, little alarm on his phone just as like a reminder because at the end, the, you know, the. It wasn't really a back and forth conversation. It was more just of like a talking. But he still keeps those alarms, like, they go off several times a week to like, call father or whatever, because you. You cling to anything once the person's gone. And what a gift it would be to. To have that coming once a year or whatever. It leads me to, like, one of the things that has been a theme a little bit throughout the show, but certainly in my conversations so far this season. And it has been that feeling of being alone when you lose someone in your grief. Like, alone in many different ways. Right. It's that feeling of like, nobody understands what I'm going through. Even though we know through these conversations, others do, but it's just. It's hard to initiate. It's hard to find people. It's hard to be open. But then you also feel alone because you've lost a person that is an integral part of your life. And I just have been thinking of those themes that we've been talking about so many times in relation to this, and your sort of example from the guy from Starbucks was a perfect segue into it, because it's exactly that. Like, we are all alone in some of our thoughts and feelings. And this is a way to. That you can almost preemptively help your. Your people. You leave behind a little bit. I'm being a little, like, in my head about it, but you know what I mean? Like, it's just this. When you've lost someone, you know what that loneliness can feel like. And when I think of, like, Ethan feeling that once Brian and I are gone, I'm so. I'm sad for that. And this is a way to sort of. Of course he's still going to be sad, but it's a way to flip it a little bit.

B (30:52)

Yeah. For some reason, what's coming to mind right now is the Tibetan Book of the Dead and how in so many other cultures, there are rituals around death and loss and grieving. There's sitting Shiva. You know, there's. And it's something that we are really drastically lacking in the West. We pretend it doesn't happen. We often don't see the body. We, you know, we go back to work right away. And there's something about the culturally accepted ritualization of grief and grieving and loss and death that I think lends itself to having a more integrated experience with it, maybe fighting or being a salve to some of the aloneness of it that we often don't have. And it's one of the things I appreciate about your podcast is, you know, pushing the conversation forward so that there can be more wider, like, safe landing places for people who are experiencing this. And, you know, I. I don't purport to be a cultural phenomenon of ritualizing grief in the west at all, but if it can be something that, you know, someone can use or something that someone can do, I think often, if you're anything like me, like, I think about, oh, I feel a certain thing, what can I do? What can I do about the feeling? How can I get rid of the feeling? How can I change the feeling? And what's the thing, the productivity? What's the action? I can take.

A (33:03)

Yes.

B (33:04)

And this is. This is an action that you can take either to deal with your anticipatory grief. If you are a child, anticipate anticipating the loss of a parent. This is an action you can take. You can say, here, mom, dad, fill this out. Do this, please. Yeah. And if you're a parent, you know, you can go, God, I. Yeah, I feel sad for the grief that my child is gonna feel when I'm gone. So here is something you can do to set your kid up for a less lonely experience.

A (33:40)

And if you're a whack job like me, I can still tell him what to do. I can leave him.

B (33:49)

I can continue to just, you know, boss him. Contribute to your IRA contrib. Yeah. Don't forget, open doors for people. Eat your vegetables.

A (34:01)

Yeah. See, there's all kinds of perks from it.

B (34:05)

Oh, God, I love that. Yeah. You can still be bossy and parent from. Bossy from beyond. It's gonna be my least. That'll be my little spin on it. Oh, God, that's good.

A (34:18)

So I wanna circle back because I do think this is important for the audience, too. You started this and you had referenced your dad had cancer. You were doing this because you were like, oh, my God, I'm gonna lose my dad. Your dad did recover at that time, correct?

B (34:35)

Yes, he is still here. And we are grateful for every day that we have with him. He has a whole new set of health issues that, you know, I'm not feeling totally relaxed every day about it.

A (34:48)

So you're kind of back in that anticipatory stage.

B (34:53)

Yes, but the cancer is gone, so we'll call that a win.

A (34:57)

Absolutely. Absolutely. And every day that you. Right. Like, every day that when. Especially in those moments when you thought they were limited, every day you have is this, like, super special gift.

B (35:11)

It is. And I will say in a weird kind of morose way that it feels a little bit easier with this new round of health scares. Having experienced my first big whopper of a. Oh, wow, he could really die.

A (35:31)

Yeah.

B (35:32)

And now that we're on our next one, I mean, it's. I feel like it's maybe not as. Not quite as scary. Although on 4th of July, he was close to death. But it's. But, you know, he. Like, he's doing. He's doing great. But having. Having had that first experience, it was like. It was like popping the balloon, you know, this illusion of my dad is going to be here forever because my dad is my dad. And having had that experience, now everything on this side of it is. I don't know what it is. That's a. That's a full sentence.

A (36:20)

No, but I like that analogy you just said. Right. Like, because I think everybody has that moment, and if they haven't had it, they are going to eventually. Because there's that moment when you have to. There's, like the two things, right? There's like the moment when you start to face your own mortality and. And various. For whatever reason, right. Like, you know, I think sometimes, like, for me, like, parenting kind of brought that on because all of a sudden you're responsible for different people and different things, and there's this whole different thought that happens. But there's that moment when you. When you recognize that your mother, your father, your cousin, your uncle, your grand. Like, people who are an integral part of your life are not going to be there forever. And that is always a. It's a difficult moment to. That initial moment is really difficult. And, you know, kind of like I. I remember when I was like, oh, my parents will live forever. And then you start to see them getting older and you start to see things shift and health. Things pop up here and there, and you start to sort of recognize, like, wait a minute, like, how am I going to live differently? What am I going to do differently? Because this is not forever. Like, you know, and I think those are really. I don't want to say aha moments, but they're those. They are the balloon pops. And you recognize that there is. This is not forever. Like, things will change.

B (37:42)

Yeah. There's a story is coming to mind for me. A handful of years ago, I was training to Compete in a 1000 kilometer horse race across outer Mongolia. And it's a recreation of Chinggis Khan's kind of conquest route across the steppe. And it's Pony Express style. So you get a new feral horse every 30 miles. And you have one you navigate by really terrible satellite Soviet imaging from the 90s. And you come across families, nomadic families who are camping on the step. And you stay with them along the way who have no idea you exist or that you're going to show up at their door. And it took a year to train for this, and my first couple of months, I wanted to just get to the start line because I was like, wow, this race is going to be amazing. Holy moly. I can't wait to ride in this race.

A (38:44)

And.

B (38:45)

And on New Year's, I was at a friend's property and I was laying underneath, like, in a grove of walnut trees and a voice Much wiser than me came to me and said, this period of time where you're training for this race is an incredibly special period of time and you are never gonna have anything like it ever again. And if you spend all of your time waiting to get to the start line, you're gonna miss all the gifts along the way and just be present with everything that's happening right now. I know you wanna get to August 18th, but this is December. Like be present between now and August. And you know, the journey is the destination, the path is the goal.

A (39:38)

And.

B (39:40)

But having that reframe in that moment, I think is actually the greatest gift I've been given in my life, is to recognize that no matter what is going on right now, it is a special time and I'm never gonna have anything like it again. The background of my phone says I will never have this version of me again. Let me slow down and be with her.

A (40:11)

I love that.

B (40:13)

And sometimes it sucks to slow down and be with her.

A (40:18)

Sometimes she's a pain in the ass. Yeah, yeah. I'm talking about me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (40:22)

Totally, totally. Sometimes it is hard. It is hard because there's anxiety or there's grief or there's anticipatory grief or there's dissociation or looking at things I don't want to look at, or looking at my own integrity, looking at my own behavior, all kinds of stuff I do not want to slow down and be with. But it's the same for, you know, recognizing the mortality of our parents or of ourselves. And how can we slow down and be with this version of reality and of what is actually happening right now?

A (41:00)

To me, that's one of the most important lessons, right? Like, and it, it, it's sort of full circle from my silly example about something I said yes to. But like the golf, it's not about the golf, right? It's about like taking everything else and being like in this moment. This is what my 20 year old son, who every day is a day where he is going, like he's so close to having his own life, right? Like he wants to intern in Boston next summer. He won't be probably home for like, like everything is fleeting, right? Like that is what life by nature. So like that moment of like staying with what it is right now. And if that means going golfing or if that means not getting some of my work done because he's like, it's embracing those moments and sitting with them even when our nature is to say, no, I'm too busy, or No, I have to do this, or no, I can't wait for this trip or I can't. I always joke, like, when we go on vacation, that that moment before the actual vacation is almost the best part, because once it starts, it's closer to being over. Right? Like, it's like figuring out how to embrace those moments. And that has a lot to do, I think, life, but also with grief and with how we can approach grief. And, like, in these conversations, if we stop and enjoy, make more time for these moments, then you have more to bring, more to carry you when you are grieving or when you are in these different places. I want to ask. I want to kind of, like, talk a little bit more about what it's. It's gotta mean so much to you and your father collectively that something that you started thinking that you know so personally, like, dad, I need this from you. Like, do these cards is now a business and now is a service for others. And just even the examples you shared throughout this conversation, that has changed and grown in so much ways. What does your dad think of it now? Like, does it bond you guys or does he. Is he proud of it? Like, I feel like he's got a big role in this as well.

B (43:01)

Yeah, he. He's definitely proud of it. He's to his credit. Like, my dad is just proud of all of the things that I do and, like, what a guy, you know, what a great. What a great role model Dab to have. He and I have always kind of connected and bonded around entrepreneurship. He and my mom started a business together 40 years ago. You know, they're married and they work together and they make it work, and they do an amazing job of it. And when I was nine maybe he and a couple of other families who we knew through our local, like, preschool started an interfaith Sunday school. And. And they said, hey, we're just going to expose our kids to all aspects of all religions, and they can pick and choose what they want and including nothing at all. But every year for Christmas, we would do a bake sale, and we would raise money for Christmas presents for immigrant families or for the Ecumenical hunger Program. And he and I sort of bonded a lot around him saying, you're doing this and you are going to stand behind that table and ask the stranger on the street, hey, would you like to hear what we're doing? Or, hey, can I interest you in some lemon bars? Or. Even though I did not want to do that one bit, he said, we're. Nope. Like, courage is deciding that Something else is more important than your fears. And him kind of pushing me in that way. And then I went to a really alternative middle school where we all started businesses in groups of three or four or five friends, and we pitched to VCs. You know, I asked for $75 in startup capital.

A (44:59)

Got to start somewhere.

B (45:01)

Got to start somewhere. And so we had all started businesses like that. And years later, I started a jewelry company. And my dad was really on board with me following my creativity and passion in that way. And so in a sense, this project is another step along that I'm. The image I'm getting is like walking on a bunch of different lily pads, like.

A (45:32)

And it's like an extension of your relationship from the beginning, really. Like, it's just a very natural. It's kind of cool.

B (45:39)

Yeah, so. So, yes, he is. He is proud of this. And for him, it almost. It almost doesn't matter what the it is. Yeah, it's. Is Molly following through on things? Is she taking a bite out of life? Is she saying yes to things?

A (46:00)

Is she.

B (46:01)

How is she showing up in this way? And of course, it's very moving to him for sure. And. And it could be anything.

A (46:11)

Love that, though. And that's such a testament to. To your relationship and really to this project, because the love and the support that you have had in your relationship is what has made this venture, this project, so important. Not just in the way of which you started it, but in those stories of how you, you know, you kind of almost given people the freedom to use this as they. As they need it. So for those listening, how. What is the process? How. What do you do? What is the website? How do they find you? How do they order all the things?

B (46:49)

The website is birthdays from Beyond.com. and there's one thing that you can do when you go to the site is you can, you know, I've got a little freebie on there, which is how, like three steps to writing a meaningful birthday card. So if you want to start with something small and free, that's there, you can go and grab that. If you're ready to embark on writing some more tangible birthday cards, physical birthday cards, there's a little, you know, shop now button and you order it and we'll get it sent to you. And, you know, you open up the box and you'll have the little card that's meant for you first. And then just below that, you'll see. See your stack of empty birthday cards and envelopes. And when you're done with the 15 of them. Or you could, you could do more than that. You know, you could turn into a longer project and bring in more cards or photos or crystals or pens or whatever. Snacks.

A (47:58)

Snacks from beyond.

B (48:00)

Snacks from beyond. Right. Bites from beyond.

A (48:02)

I'm taking this way too far.

B (48:05)

You leave everything in the time capsule box that it comes in and when you're ready to give it to your children. I haven't heard of this particular story yet, although I think it's only a matter of time where, you know, partners who are in a relationship with each other, let's say one of them is terminal, to write cards for absolutely surviving partner. So once you're done writing these cards and using the handy dandy questions and prompts and questions that I've included there for you, then you put them in the box and then you give it to your person and say, here, I've made this for you to make your life better.

A (48:51)

I love it. I absolutely love it. I am so grateful to have connected with you. And kind of like I said in the beginning, this is a little bit of a different conversation. But we covered so many of the important aspects of just what this show is trying to do, right? Like living with kinds of grief and ways to just, I don't know, like, I like how you referenced other cultures because we have talked about that in different seasons, right. About how we live such a one sided way about grief and there's all these other ways to do it. And I just love that this is, it's like facing your own mortality and facing reality and it's just, it's, it's putting, I don't know if this is making, I'm not trying to make light, but it's putting this like positive spin on it and it's making it, it's helping make it something that's not so scary and morose. Like, I mean, it's just, I just really love this project and I love that it came out of like, I love the starting story of you saying to your dad, you know, do this for me and then really taking it into something that is helping everybody. And I, I am really excited to share this with my listeners and I think it's going to be really valuable.

B (50:08)

Thank you. And if anybody who is listening to this show and does it like, I want to know how it is for you, you know, you can email me hello@birthdaysforbeyond.com and let me know what the process was like, let me know what you're gonna use it for. I would love to hear some interesting new use cases for this, like those three stories I shared earlier. I would be so delighted to hear about your own take on it, your own spin, how you're using it differently. You know, that would be just like, that'd be the icing on the cake for me.

A (50:49)

That's awesome. No, that's awesome. I think that sounds great. And I hope, I hope that you get some orders from us. I know that you will get one from me because I'm really looking forward to this. And thank you so much for being a part of the show. Thank you for hopping on and talking with me. I've really enjoyed this very much. I appreciate it.

B (51:07)

Me too. You're so warm and open hearted and so easy to, to be with and I just am really appreciating all of the work that you have done to be who you are.

A (51:23)

Thank you. Thank you. And as you know, right, like it's never easy. Like it's always a work in progress, I feel like always. So I appreciate, I appreciate that very much. That makes me feel good. Thank you. Thank you for listening to A Place of Yes. I hope today's conversation brought you comfort, connection, maybe even a bit, little, little bit of hope. If it did, I'd love for you to subscribe and share this episode with someone who might need it to see you next time on A Place of Yes.