Schizophrenia & Suicide Loss: The Grief No One Talks About

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Schizophrenia & Suicide Loss: The Grief No One Talks About"

Podcast Information:

• Title: A Place of Yes | A Grief Podcast
• Host: Heather Straughter
• Guest: Madison Reuter
• Episode Release Date: February 13, 2025

---

1. Introduction

In this poignant episode of A Place of Yes, host Heather Straughter engages in a heartfelt conversation with Madison Reuter, an editor and podcast host who has navigated the tumultuous waters of grief following the loss of her ex-partner to suicide. The episode delves deep into the complexities of mental health, the stigma surrounding schizophrenia, and the enduring impact of losing someone to suicide.

---

2. Madison Reuter’s Story

Madison shares her personal journey, detailing a six-year relationship with her ex-partner who struggled with schizophrenia. She reflects on the gradual deterioration of his mental health, ultimately leading to his suicide in 2022.

• Early Signs and Relationship Dynamics: Madison recounts, “You know, those first four years, it was like I knew something wasn't 100%, like, how my brain works, but I didn't know it would become what it did” (00:02).

• Decision to Part Ways: Faced with increasing instability, Madison made the difficult choice to end the romantic relationship to protect her own well-being, emphasizing the necessity of self-preservation despite deep emotional bonds: “I love you, but I have to put myself first” (05:57).

---

3. Understanding Schizophrenia and Its Impact

The conversation provides an insightful overview of schizophrenia, highlighting its symptoms and the challenges it poses not only to those diagnosed but also to their loved ones.

• Explaining Schizophrenia: Madison explains, “It's a mental illness where you kind of have a false sense of reality... you might have delusions, hallucinations” (07:28).

• Stigma and Misunderstanding: She touches on the societal stigma and the difficulty in securing effective treatment: “He thought anyone who was trying to push him to get help was part of his plotting against him” (08:15).

---

4. Coping with the Loss: Guilt and Anticipatory Grief

Madison discusses the overwhelming feelings of guilt that often accompany the suicide of a loved one, particularly when attempts to help seem futile.

• Processing Guilt: “I had some guilt, more or less that I didn't reach out more in that last three months” (13:06).

• Anticipatory Grief: The concept of anticipating loss provided Madison with a peculiar form of preparation, yet the actual loss still delivered an unexpected emotional impact: “I wasn't surprised, but I was still devastated” (11:18).

---

5. Grieving as a Young Person

The episode explores how grief during formative years, such as late teens and early twenties, presents unique challenges and shapes personal identity.

• Impact on Identity: Madison reflects, “My entire life is basically Madison and Regis, Regis and Madison” (44:05), illustrating how entwined her identity became with her ex-partner.

• Facing Mortality: She candidly shares her fears and struggles with the idea of her own mortality: “I'm actually afraid that I'm gonna become schizophrenic...” (35:57).

---

6. Navigating Spiritual Beliefs After Loss

Heather and Madison discuss their individual journeys through faith and spirituality in the aftermath of loss, grappling with concepts of the afterlife and ongoing connection with deceased loved ones.

• Spiritual Comfort: Heather shares her reliance on religious practices for comfort, while Madison expresses skepticism mixed with personal beliefs: “I believe that our people are around us and they are guiding us” (24:52).

• Dreams as Connection: Madison describes recurring dreams of her ex, serving as a source of solace yet also presenting emotional complexities: “Every time I have those dreams, he hugs me and he's like, I'll be back soon” (23:00).

---

7. Keeping the Memory Alive: Rituals and Remembrance

Both Heather and Madison emphasize the importance of rituals in maintaining a connection with lost loved ones, whether through physical mementos or symbolic actions.

• Personal Mementos: Madison proudly shares how she carries her ex’s ashes in a pouch, bringing him to concerts and important events: “I take him places with me. I take him to concerts” (31:14).

• Preserving Physical Items: Heather discusses keeping unwashed clothing items as tangible memories: “I have two pieces of Jake's clothing that are not washed in my closet to this day” (50:26).

---

8. Advice for Supporting Grieving Individuals

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to providing actionable advice on how to support someone navigating grief, particularly for those who are not experiencing loss firsthand.

• Listening Without Fixing: Madison advises, “Somebody to just listen and not feel like someone is gonna try to cure it” (38:00).

• Avoiding Judgment: Heather echoes the sentiment, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging grief without imposing solutions: “the solution is be quiet, listen and acknowledge” (41:31).

---

9. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with mutual appreciation between Heather and Madison, highlighting the therapeutic role of sharing grief stories through podcasts. They encourage listeners to engage with their own grief processes and seek supportive communities.

• Encouragement to Listeners: Heather invites listeners to follow both her podcast and Madison’s for continued support and shared experiences.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Madison Reuter (00:02): “You know, those first four years, it was like I knew something wasn't 100%, like, how my brain works, but I didn't know it would become what it did.”

• Heather Straughter (02:00): “Prior to listening to my conversation with Madison, I want to share that we cover some complex and potentially triggering topics in this episode.”

• Madison Reuter (13:46): “That's the one thing that is comforting is that I know.”

• Heather Straughter (35:57): “It's okay your kid died, but you know what I mean?”

• Madison Reuter (43:28): “It's like, if not, I'm like, well, this sucks, and I gotta go, you know?”

---

Key Takeaways:

• Understanding Complex Grief: Grieving the loss of a partner to suicide, especially when compounded by mental illness, involves navigating deep-seated guilt and the challenge of making peace with circumstances beyond one’s control.

• Importance of Rituals: Maintaining physical connections through mementos can serve as vital anchors in the grieving process, providing comfort and a sense of ongoing presence.

• Supporting Others: Effective support for those in grief centers on active listening and providing a safe space for expression without attempts to fix or minimize their pain.

• Shared Experiences: Sharing personal stories of loss can foster community, reduce feelings of isolation, and aid in the healing process for both the speaker and the listener.

---

For more stories of grief and resilience, consider tuning into Madison Reuter’s own podcast, where she continues to explore the labyrinth of loss and healing.

Transcript

[Madison Reuter]

You know, those first four years, it was like I knew something wasn't 100%, like, how my brain works, but I didn't know it would become what it did. And then one day he was Regis, and then the next day, it was like a new person was there, and it kind of came out of nowhere. And it went from like, oh, I'm depressed, to, you know, this whole deep schizophrenia. So.

[Heather Straughter]

Welcome to A Place of Yes, a podcast about how I moved through my darkest hour. And for me, that was in channeling my grief into good. Welcome to the show. Hi, I'm Heather Straughter. Welcome to A Place of Yes. Prior to listening to my conversation with Madison, I want to share that we cover some complex and potentially triggering topics in this episode. We talk about mental health and we talk about suicide. We discuss the complexities of mental health in a relationship, as well as the impact of loss by suicide and the feelings of guilt often accompanied by such tragedies. If you or someone you love is having suicidal thoughts, you can find help by calling the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988. So welcome to A Place of yes podcast where we focus on channeling our grief for good. Today I am sitting with Madison Reuter, who is very special to me for very many reasons. First, I was a guest on your podcast, and also. And it was the first anything podcast that I had done. Like, I knew that I was doing this podcast, but it's one of those things where you have a great idea, but you actually realize you have no idea what you're doing. And being a guest on your show was a awesome A and B gave me this sort of feeling that maybe I could do this. So thank you for that.

[Madison Reuter]

Well, thanks for being on my show. I was really nervous leading up to that.

[Heather Straughter]

I was like, were you nervous leading up to that?

[Madison Reuter]

I was so nervous.

[Heather Straughter]

Did we know each other before?

[Madison Reuter]

We never met.

[Heather Straughter]

So it was like a cold meet.

[Madison Reuter]

And then we're talking about, like, the most traumatizing thing, you know, Normal.

[Heather Straughter]

Yeah, totally normal. And then for my audience, you are the editor of this show.

[Madison Reuter]

Yes.

[Heather Straughter]

This is another thing that I had no idea a year ago about the relationship between, like, a podcast host and their editor. I had no idea. Like, I was just like, oh, someone edits the show. But I had no idea the relationships you build in this. And I'm so grateful for it. And I am so grateful for the time, the energy, the thoughtfulness you put into the show. I feel super safe. Right. Like, I feel like for my guest and for myself, whatever we're saying, however it goes, whether it's emotional or vulnerable or whatever, I know that you are going to turn it into exactly what it's supposed to be. So I'm very grateful for that. So thank you. And here you are. So you are not here just as the editor or as your own podcast host. You are here on this grief podcast because you are very well versed in the world of grief.

[Madison Reuter]

Yes, unfortunately.

[Heather Straughter]

Unfortunately. Can you share with my audience a little bit of your story?

[Madison Reuter]

I guess I started my podcast similarly to how you've done yours, just talking about your grief experience and sharing that with the audience and kind of creating a space for that conversation. So my story is definitely complicated. Definitely different than maybe some of the other guests you've shared. So in 2022, I lost my ex partner to suicide. We were together for six years. At the time of his death, we were not together, which complicated it that much more. And he struggle with schizophrenia. So that in itself was suicide aside. The whole schizophrenia aspect was such a confusing journey for both of us, for his family, for all of his friends.

[Heather Straughter]

Was he diagnosed with schizophrenia, like, the entire time you were in the relationship? Or was that something?

[Madison Reuter]

Okay, yeah. So I guess this is an interesting crossover, I guess, just because of the rare disease that you talk about a lot. I feel like that's why, in a way, I sort of have an understanding, because this is an illness that's very stigmatized and, like, you know, it's hard for a lot of people to understand. And you're, like, living in this world, trying to deal with it in a world that doesn't, and in a world.

[Heather Straughter]

That only knows about it through, like, TV shows or, like, whatever dramatic way.

[Madison Reuter]

Not in a real way, a million percent. But to answer your question, the first probably four years of our relationship, you know, I knew he struggled with his mental health, and it was mostly just, like, depression, anxiety, you know, normal, like, teenager stuff. And we met when I was 13. We started dating when I was 14. So we were, like, little, you know, so we're growing up together. I had no perspective outside of him.

[Heather Straughter]

Well, you only know what you know.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah. So, you know, those first four years, it was like I knew something, you know, wasn't 100%, like, how my brain works, but I didn't know it would become what it did. And then the last two years of our relationship, it went from, you know, one day he was Regis, and then the next day it was like a new person was there. And it kind of came out of Nowhere. And it went from like, oh, I'm depressed, to, you know, this whole deep schizophrenia.

[Heather Straughter]

So how did you handle that? I mean, I'm thinking, you know, and part of what I want to talk with you on the show is. And this is crazy, but, like, I'm old enough to be your mom. Right. Like, so. So I think about how, from that perspective, like, as I think about my audience, who's probably close in my age. But how do we help? How do we guide. How do we do all of those things? But. So let's stick with this. So how did that. Did that impact your relationship? Is that when you kind of broke up, or did you remain friends?

[Madison Reuter]

So it got to a point where as much as I loved him and I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him, I was perfectly content with that. But it got to a point where he was so out of control of his. His mind and his actions that it became sort of unsafe to be around him. And so I kind of. It was really hard because it's one of those things where it's like, I love you, but I have to put myself first.

[Heather Straughter]

Yes.

[Madison Reuter]

And making that decision, you know, at. I think I was 20, you know, I was like, you're still so. Yeah, I had no idea.

[Heather Straughter]

Oh, and you don't even know who you are, really.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah. Yeah. And I never thought things would end up where they did. You know, I thought even at the time, it's as simple as, well, maybe if I break up with him, he'll actually get help, but then it'll be good and we'll get back together. But I didn't realize it's not as simple as just, like, going to therapy. So it was. It was a complicated thing, but I had to kind of put myself first. And, you know, we kind of mutually broke up. We knew it was the better choice for both of us at the time, and we stayed best friends. You know, we never. There was never a time where we weren't in each other's lives since I was 13 years old. In those last years, like, we were still talking all the time. We still talked on the phone. We still did all of that. It was only the last three months of his life that he completely just didn't speak to me.

[Heather Straughter]

Did he recognize. This might be a stupid question, but did he recognize that he had schizophrenia? Like, was he being treated for it? Was he, like, actively diagnosed? Or is this sort of after the fact that you kind of like, how. Like, how did that.

[Madison Reuter]

So this is where it becomes super complicated. Because with schizophrenia. So I guess we should say, for those of you who don't know, you know, what schizophrenia is, it's a, you know, mental illness where you kind of have a false sense of reality. It's usually triggered, like, in your early 20s. And oftentimes you might have a family history of it, sometimes you don't, but essentially it kind of takes over your whole life. And you kind of almost have, like, delusions, hallucinations. You might believe things that aren't real. You might have these plot lines in your head that feel real to you, but to the outside world, it's like, you know, you have no idea that nobody else is on that same page with him. He had no sense of the fact that what he was dealing with was not real.

[Heather Straughter]

Okay?

[Madison Reuter]

So it was really hard to get him help because he thought anyone who was trying to push him to get help was part of his plotting against him. He was on medication for a while, but he started to believe that the medication was, like, part of the. Part of the story. The plot line.

[Heather Straughter]

You hear that time and time again, right? In this. In the story of mental illness, where there is something, then you begin, like a medication or a therapy or all of the sort of things, and then that sort of turns. It no longer works for the person, or they believe that they don't need it, right? And then they, you know, I mean, so it's that cycle, and it's heartbreaking because, I don't know, I don't have a ton of firsthand experience with that type of relationships or loss. But I do know some friends or siblings of friends who have been in that cycle who start to do really well and then think they don't like the way the medicine makes them feel, or they don't recognize that it's the medicine that is, in fact, allowing them to live this sort of more successful and productive or whatever typical life. How hard is that? And I can only imagine being the age you were because that is such a difficult 50. So, like, you look back, like, that's a difficult time because you're trying to figure out, like, under the best of circumstances, your late teens, your 20s, like, those are times where you're just. They're great times, but they're also hard times. How did you navigate that? Like, how. How did you protect yourself? How did you have the strength to sort of say, wait, I gotta walk away now?

[Madison Reuter]

It was really hard because I think when you care about somebody so much, prioritizing yourself is. It almost seems impossible. And the only thing that kind of got me to the point where I could make that decision, was I was moving to the city to go to college, and he didn't want to go to the city.

[Heather Straughter]

So it was like a natural, kind of a more natural breakdown.

[Madison Reuter]

It almost felt like this is a good opportunity for me to just do this. And in my head, it wasn't forever. You know, it was, he's going to figure out his stuff, get on his feet, and then he's going to come to the city or whatever you know, played out, but it didn't go that way.

[Heather Straughter]

So right now you are 24.

[Madison Reuter]

Yes.

[Heather Straughter]

Okay. So this is. It's still very recent in your life. Right. So we're talking about the course of four years.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah. And he. So he died in 2022. So almost. November 6th will be two years.

[Heather Straughter]

November 6th. Okay. Two years. You had mentioned in the three months prior to his death that things were. Had taken a turn. Are you comfortable talking about any of that, or.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah. So it didn't, at the time, didn't register in my head. I just thought, oh, he's busy. He's doing well, whatever. But he just kind of stopped talking to me. So I was like, okay, maybe we're just not talking right now, you know, later finding out he was, you know, finalizing his life and figuring out the specifics of what that was gonna look like. And he just didn't want to involve me in that. At least that's how I've kind of had to look at it.

[Heather Straughter]

How did you figure that out? So he commits suicide. You didn't see that coming? And that's a loaded question, because I think in these situations, there's that dangerous part of ourselves, right. That looks back and says, oh, should have, woulda, coulda.

[Madison Reuter]

Right? So I kind of always knew that this is where. And it's so. It's hard to say that because people are like, oh, then why didn't you do anything? But it's so much more complicated than that. And I think that's what people. People don't realize is at. At some point, you've exhausted all your resources as a support system. I wasn't shocked when I found out. That's not to say I wasn't, you know, devastated, heartbroken, whatever, but I was like. Like I did see it coming in many ways.

[Heather Straughter]

Oh, Madison, I'm so sorry. I mean, that is such a loss. And you and I have talked about this, right? Like, loss, it can be so big, and it can be so consuming, and it can be so overwhelming. And I. This isn't really. But under the best of circumstances, right? Like. Like. Like we've talked to people here on the show who have lost their parents to old age, right? And I never want to minimize loss because it's all impactful, but some of that is a little bit, like, I don't. It doesn't make it feel better when you're in it, but it's like the circle of life, right? Like. Like we are supposed to bury our parents because that is how things work when that order is shifted when it is a child. In my case, like, I always feel like that's. You're not supposed to bury your kids. It's like a. It's like a rule, but it's. And you're not supposed to lose your. Your friends in such a horrible way. And I just. I admire that you have taken that and. And are doing so much personal growth, but also taking it and using it as like a beacon to help others. I mean, I think that's really admirable. Do you have guilt associated with that? How do you process that? And. And does it get easier after two years? Or is it still. Is it like grief and some days suck and some days are better?

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah, it's really that in the beginning, had some guilt, more or less that I didn't reach out more in that last three months, obviously, had I known, I would have been reaching out daily. There's nothing I wouldn't have done, of course, but then to put it in perspective, whether I reached out or not, he was not going to be responsive to that. And I think I truly believe that I did everything that I could to help him. And I just kind of have to believe that he feels the same way. And that's why he stopped using me as a resource in the end, because I think if he had any hope for things getting better, he would have reached out to me because he knows.

[Heather Straughter]

I would have been there and would have done anything.

[Madison Reuter]

I literally would have done anything. So guilt for me, I feel really lucky because I don't have a ton of it. I think if some circumstances were different, it definitely would, but I think it's. I relate a lot to what you've said about Jake and the day that he died. Like, if it wasn't on your watch, it would be a different story. And though my situation's not the same, I think it's kind of like all the stuff that we did leading up to that point makes our processing different. And I don't know if that will make sense. To everybody. But.

[Heather Straughter]

No, but it's the idea that you can feel okay because, you know that under the circumstances, you did what you could do and had to do, and there's comfort in that.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah.

[Heather Straughter]

And when, you know, you put it on someone else, then there's different.

[Madison Reuter]

That's the thing. Like, had anybody else been in my shoes and, you know, not done more, I would be pissed.

[Heather Straughter]

Yeah. Like, it's hard to.

[Madison Reuter]

You can make peace with the choices.

[Heather Straughter]

Yes. And that's exactly it. That's. You can make peace with. With what you did and how you did it and why you did it.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah.

[Heather Straughter]

But it's harder to do that for other people. It's harder to weed out the blame.

[Madison Reuter]

That's the thing. There are people that I am mad at. There are people I, like, couldn't be more angry with. And then, you know, you have to, like, bring yourself back to earth and be like. But they. They didn't know either. You know what I mean? But, you know, with myself, I can kind of, like, grasp it differently just because, you know, out of everybody, I was the closest person to him always. So it's.

[Heather Straughter]

And I say this because I think about this with Jake sometimes. Right. Like, I feel good most of the time that I did that. I wouldn't change a lot. Right. Like, that there's not much in that journey I would have changed. Yes. There's, like, the little things. Like, would I not have fed him that night at the time that I did? Like, you know, if I could have altered history, would I have? Of course. But as I look back as being Jake's mom, there's not much I would have changed. And there's comfort in that. And it sounds like you look back at your six years with him, and when you talk about. And you. And I haven't talked about this before, but when you talked about being, like, 13 and him being, you know, your boyfriend and that part of life, there's nothing you would have changed.

[Madison Reuter]

You know, my life now, I'm so happy with where I'm at. And it's so similar to what you talk about. Like, you know, you are the person you are because of all the things that have happened and, you know, what happened with Jake has contributed to the person you are, and that sucks. And it's like, so you're. It's like, stupid. You're like, I'd rather be the worst person.

[Heather Straughter]

I'd rather be a shitty human, frankly. Yeah.

[Madison Reuter]

Literally, like, I'd rather be ignorant to what schizophrenia is. Like, not have a deep Understanding of suicide, loss, like, mental health.

[Heather Straughter]

Any would love.

[Madison Reuter]

Would love to be in those shoes again if he was still alive. But he's not. So you kind of just have to take it and be like, okay, now what? But, yeah, there's not much that I would change. Cause I think my time with him was what it needed to be, and it was enjoyable.

[Heather Straughter]

And it sounds like you believe that it was for him as well.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah.

[Heather Straughter]

When it feels shitty and it's really hurting, that has to be somewhat comforting, like, in a weird. Like, it's a weird level of being able to process that.

[Madison Reuter]

But it's like, the one thing that is comforting is that I know. And it really kind of does go back to those last three months. He didn't reach out to me because he felt that our relationship at that point, like, he didn't want to bring me into that. And he still, to the end, he valued me. And as, like, literally cursed as it sounds like, I think he didn't reach out to me because he didn't want me to feel any more guilt than he knew I already would. You know, had he reached out, had we been in communication. And then, you know, one day he just doesn't text me and he's dead. The guilt I would feel is so different.

[Heather Straughter]

So I think it's almost like an act of kindness.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah. And it's, like, weird to say that.

[Heather Straughter]

But I get it, though.

[Madison Reuter]

But it really is, because I think he valued our relationship just as much as I did, and he knew how this would impact me, and he tried to make that impact less horrible.

[Heather Straughter]

I ask this to a lot of my guests. It's something that I have always done and always felt, but didn't know other people did it. Because, you know, I do find, like, grief in so many ways. You're so alone now. I talk about it more than I sort of ever did. But you kind of live your own world handling grief however it is, Right?

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah.

[Heather Straughter]

So do you. Do you talk to him? Like, do you talk to Regis? Like, do you get signs from him? Do you believe in any of that? And do you feel any of that?

[Madison Reuter]

So I feel like I'm the outlier here.

[Heather Straughter]

Okay.

[Madison Reuter]

The only time I talk to him is when I'm really, really mad at him. Just, like, screaming like, oh, my God, like, why did you do this? All that kind of frustration comes out. But for the most part, I don't. And I also don't get signs. And that's something that I have struggled with so much that has actually been probably One of the most difficult things, because I think. Because.

[Heather Straughter]

Are you like, me? Like, come on. Hi. Here I am.

[Madison Reuter]

Yes. It is so frustrating. Like, I'll see Cardinals, and I'm like, okay, Jake. Jake is out here giving me signs. Where's Regis? Like, what? So it's really. It can be really frustrating because I hear so many people talk about it and having that connection, and then I'm like, am I doing something wrong? Am I overlooking it? Does he hate me? You know, like, all these things go down the rabbit hole. Yeah. A medium did tell me that he just doesn't want to bother me, and he just wants me to, like, work through this at my own pace, which is kind of exactly what I need. And whether that's true, I don't know, but.

[Heather Straughter]

Well, it's interesting because what I was going to say is. And this is, like, the mom in me, right? A you're in a relationship now with Jake, which I like to. Just makes me happy. Not my Jake, your Jake. Because that would be weird. You might want to edit that out, Madison.

[Madison Reuter]

Edit that out.

[Heather Straughter]

But I think, like, there's part of me that's probably, like, in those three months before he passed, he was kind of putting a little distance for all of the reasons that you said. And it makes sense to me that he is wanting you to go on with your life and not for you to feel guilty. Not to be like, oh, hey, I'm in this relationship and I'm doing really well in my life. Like, I could see that, you know, and there's part of me, too, that thinks you're so young still, you know, and there's. There's your whole life for this, you know, and maybe he's just, like, riding it out. Like, I 1000% believe that at some point, you will figure out who he is here, as, you know, I mean, whether it is a butterfly or, like, whatever the hell it is, like. And I just sort of feel like I know that, but it doesn't surprise me that it's, you know, it's taking its time.

[Madison Reuter]

It's very true. Because I think, like, I'm too deep for my own good sometimes. And I think I would, like, he knows I would be, like, obsessed. Like, every little bug, every, like, flicker of a light, I would be, like, investigating way too deep. It would probably not be good for me in the long run. One thing I do have, though, is I dream about him a lot.

[Heather Straughter]

Do you?

[Madison Reuter]

A lot? Yeah. And my whole family does. Like, my mom will text me and be like, regis was My dream last night, it's so. Like, so many of us.

[Heather Straughter]

I love that. So let me ask you this. When you dream about him, is he, like, this age? Like, is it like, this version of him or is it a version you knew as a kid? And does he talk like. I'm always fascinated with dreams, so it's.

[Madison Reuter]

Kind of like the way that I remember him in the best times. Like, it's kind of right before all of this happened, and we have, like, really deep conversations. Like, there was one dream where, you know, I walked into my bedroom and he was in there painting this, like, beautiful mural on the wall. And it's kind of weird because he was an artist. And I feel like artists is even kind of an understatement. Like, he was a genius artist. Like, I will never see something like this again in my lifetime. Any medium of art, he could pick up and understand it and master it that day.

[Heather Straughter]

That's amazing.

[Madison Reuter]

I should preface. Before he passed, he did this painting of where he thinks he's going after he dies.

[Heather Straughter]

Oh.

[Madison Reuter]

And I have it in my house, and I look at it all the. And, you know, that's like, a comfort. So in this dream, he was painting that painting on my wall in my room. And I was like, whoa, that's kind of crazy. And I was talking to him about it, and then he was basically telling me, like, you need to stop obsessing over where I am. Look at the painting. This is where I am. And I have a hyper fixation on, like, you know, where is he? Like, it doesn't make sense to me that someone dies and they just, like, literally disappear, never to be seen again. Like, that is a crazy concept to. So he told me in the dream that he's like, you, as a human being, cannot understand where I am. Like, it is just beyond human experience. He called it the oblivion. And it was very bizarre like that.

[Heather Straughter]

I mean. So I am gonna say that. Screw a cardinal. That is way more profound than anything.

[Madison Reuter]

It's too deep.

[Heather Straughter]

No, that's amazing. It's amazing. And I actually. It's super deep. But I so love that for you, because I think, like, I'm a little jealous. I'm not gonna lie. Like, in the world of, like, this kind of grief where, like, that kind of communication, that's crazy.

[Madison Reuter]

I don't wanna wake up on my own.

[Heather Straughter]

No, you just wanna stay here for forever.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah. And every time I have those dreams, at the end, he hugs me and he's like, I'll be back soon. But, like, stop waiting for me to, like, come into your dreams. Just, like, I'll come when I feel like it.

[Heather Straughter]

I love that. I wanna circle back to what you said, because I agree, like, this idea, it leads me to two topics with death, right? Like, it's this idea of what happens. Like, and I have that same brain where it's like, if you try. It's like you try to make sense of it, and it's impossible. Like, it's absolutely impossible. It's frustrating. It's impossible. And it's like, you want to. Or at least I want to believe that there's this afterlife and that there is this. I don't know that I call it heaven or what. Like, you know, I mean, like, I have talked about before. Like, right after Jake died, I obsessively started going back to church. Like, I hadn't gone to church in. In years. Like, I was raised Catholic. And then at a certain point, just. It didn't feel right for me. Like, I. I sort of. I don't want to say lost my faith, but it just wasn't. It wasn't what I chose to kind of keep doing. And after he died, I. Like, I would make Ethan go to. Like, he was. I was like, we're going to church. Like, religiously. Brian's not Catholic. He's Muslim. Like, I'd be like, no, we're going. You're coming to church. Like, we were like, the family's going to church. He's like, okay, Heather, whatever. And. And we did it fairly regularly for a couple years. And I made Ethan do his first communion and his confirmation and all those things. Cause I just. It didn't make sense to me. But I felt like it was something to grab onto. And then I have since sort of become more comfortable with it. But it is. It's this weird concept, right? It's this concept of, like, where do they go? What happens? Like, I believe very wholeheartedly that our people are around us and they are part of us and they are guiding us. Like, I do believe that, but it's. It's weird because it's not something you can just Google. Google. It's not something. There's not like a textbook. And you learn this and it's like, oh, if A, then B, it is.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah.

[Heather Straughter]

Have you ever read the book called Many Lives, Many Masters?

[Madison Reuter]

No.

[Heather Straughter]

Okay, I'm gonna give it to you. When Jake died, my friend Kelly gave this to me, and I was like, what do you. What is this? Like, this is crazy. And I feel that every time someone.

[Madison Reuter]

Would Offer me a book. I'm like, get it away from me.

[Heather Straughter]

Yeah. I was like, this is lunacy. But I will tell you, I read it, and it provided me with so much comfort of exactly what we're talking about. It's basically that you have these different lives. Right. That is not something I ever, before reading this book, thought about. I never had an opinion whether I believed in it or not. It was just not something I thought about. But the way he writes this book was such what I needed to hear. And it talks about weird things where, like, sometimes it doesn't make any sense, but you meet somebody and you're totally connected with them.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah.

[Heather Straughter]

And it talks about, like, well, maybe 400 years ago, you guys were friends. You know what I mean? Or you had this relationship. And it was funny because right after Jake died, there were certain people that I just connected with or who I could take support from better. My friend Kelly being one of them. I'm gonna give it to you because not so much that you're like, oh, hey, I have to believe this.

[Madison Reuter]

Right.

[Heather Straughter]

But it was such an interesting perspective. And like, we just said, you can get lost in these. This lack of answers or in, like, what happen or where do people go? And I'm not saying this is the answer, but it's an alternative that is kind of fun to believe or fun to get lost in.

[Madison Reuter]

I love a good theory. Yeah, it's a theory.

[Heather Straughter]

It's a solid theory.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah. Because, you know, for me, I'm very. Like, we die, you know, energy is released from our body, and that energy is around. And, like, that's the thing that we feel when you think of others, feel that person around. But as for, like, an afterlife, I don't know what. I don't know if I'm, like, just being too critical and, like, you know, overthinking it or, like, I have frustrations with the afterlife because, you know, Regis killed himself so he wouldn't be in a place where, you know, there would be peace. And.

[Heather Straughter]

Yeah.

[Madison Reuter]

So you kind of go through all because you can't.

[Heather Straughter]

Like, you can't believe, or believe is not the word. But.

[Madison Reuter]

But, like, you almost feel like.

[Heather Straughter]

It's like you find the loophole, and then it's uncomfortable.

[Madison Reuter]

And then the other thing I know I'm not going to heaven. So if he goes to heaven and I don't go to heaven, then, like, what does that do for me? You know? So there's, like, a lot of nuances where I'm like, I almost don't want it to be real. I almost just hope that it's not real because then, like, one of us is not going to be somewhere else. Yeah.

[Heather Straughter]

Lost.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah.

[Heather Straughter]

One of the things in those days, right after Jake died and he had this, like, beanbag and I kept getting out of bed and like, laying in the beanbag because I just didn't know what else to do with myself. And when I would lay there sometimes I would get this, like, really, really, really cold air around me and I would, like, breathe it in because I was like, I feel that. You know, And I was like, this is him. And so when you said that, it kind of was like, they hang out, right? Like they, they stick around to make sure that you're gonna be okay. And I, I don't. Even if I'm saying it, I don't know that I believe. Like, what am I saying? Like, what are you talking about, Heather? But like, I remember feeling like that and they would say, like, you know, the cold air is them.

[Madison Reuter]

Well, I always think, like, if you feel like it's, it's that person, just go with it. You know, just like, ride, no harm, no foul, like, what's the worst that can happen sort of thing.

[Heather Straughter]

No, it's, it's funny the realities we can make for ourselves.

[Madison Reuter]

Right. We literally can, like, you know, make up a whole world. There's so many, like, little things. And I know you've talked about this a lot too. Like, you have that one shirt of Jake's.

[Heather Straughter]

Believe the hype.

[Madison Reuter]

Yes.

[Heather Straughter]

Yeah.

[Madison Reuter]

And like, you just keep it around.

[Heather Straughter]

And it's on our headboard right now.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah. People don't get that. People might think it's weird or like, isn't it time to, you know, put that away or whatever. But we do these weird rituals to, like, keep ourselves grounded in the fact that this person was real at one point and they, they did exist and they were like a life size human being that experienced things.

[Heather Straughter]

Some people who, who have, I think, gone through grief but just don't really face it. And then some people who haven't yet experienced in a way that is, I don't want to say significant, but in a way that is so overwhelmingly big is that people do say that, right? Like, they, they do believe it's time to move on. They think that helps. Right? Or the people who are like, so, oh, don't focus on that anymore. Focus on the good, like, stuff wouldn't.

[Madison Reuter]

Want you to be happy, he wouldn't want you to be crying. He would, you know, like, all that stuff.

[Heather Straughter]

And It's. Yeah, shut up. Because I think that people do think that I'm sort of well adjusted. But when you were, you know, you brought up that shirt, which I'm like, is so normal to us now. That will never not be in our head. Right.

[Madison Reuter]

Like, it's just part of your.

[Heather Straughter]

It's just part of our. Like, I don't even. I actually sometimes forget how weird it is, you know, I mean, like, just because it's normal. But, like, in our guest room, I have drawers full of his stuff still. Like, I went through a lot of things, but there are some things that I just didn't at this point, I'm like, It's been almost 14 years. Like, what's the point in doing it now? Right?

[Madison Reuter]

That's why I might as well just let it sit.

[Heather Straughter]

It's true, right? Like, people want to. They want you to stop sometimes. And I think we agree on this. And I think the more people who we talk about this is, there is no end to grief. Right. It's just part of who we are. Now. How do you handle the, like, the ups and downs of grief? And how do you handle that? Sometimes you're going along your life and you can almost. And I don't know, you're still young in your grief, right? Like, two years. Yeah, but I can go through stretches where like, sort of I forget to go to the cemetery. I don't really talk to him. I don't think about it. And then all of a sudden, it's like a Mack truck.

[Madison Reuter]

So when you started talking about the cemetery thing on your show, I really related to that. Not even with Regis. I just. I had a friend who passed when I was 16 and we were really close. His name was Jake.

[Heather Straughter]

A lot of Jakes in your life. I like it.

[Madison Reuter]

The thing is kind of wild. Yeah, it's kind of wild. There's a lot. But I would, you know, at first, I would go visit literally every day. Then all of a sudden, it was like, less and less and less. And I just had this recurring thought of, like, I have all the time in the world and how bad of a friend am I that I can't spend two minutes? You know, I can't find two minutes for someone who literally doesn't have any time. You know, like, he's not here. He doesn't get to have time anymore. And so I would beat myself up that, like, I couldn't even find, you know, a minute to go. Then when Regis passed, he was cremated. So I have him in my apartment.

[Heather Straughter]

Do You.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah. So I.

[Heather Straughter]

Do you have all of him, or does his family have some?

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah, he's kind of split up. Part of him is sprinkled in the Colorado River. You know, I can spend time with him. I literally take him places with me. Like, I take him to concerts.

[Heather Straughter]

Do you really? I love this.

[Madison Reuter]

Yes.

[Heather Straughter]

So, wait, walk me through this. Like, so do you.

[Madison Reuter]

Funny story. So I went to see one of our favorite bands, probably, like, three months after he died, and I have this little pouch in my pocket. Like, not thinking of powder.

[Heather Straughter]

Oh, no.

[Madison Reuter]

And he got confiscated.

[Heather Straughter]

Oh, Regis.

[Madison Reuter]

Which is so. Regis. Like, of course. So the security had to hold onto him. And they. They. I'm like, come on. Like, you. You can see that. It's not.

[Heather Straughter]

Like, it's not even the right color. Yeah.

[Madison Reuter]

Like, please. So after the show, I got to get him back.

[Heather Straughter]

Oh, you got him back.

[Madison Reuter]

So scary. I was like, if I don't get this back, like, I'm actually gonna die here.

[Heather Straughter]

Like, I feel like I talk a lot about jealousy on the show, about weird things. This is another thing. Right. So, again, because I was raised Catholic, in the whole purgatory thing, I was very, like, adamant in my grief that he could not be cremated.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah.

[Heather Straughter]

I have since. Not that I regret it, because I like having a place. I like the whole process of how we did it. And I'm not sure that I could have wrapped my head around my little boy. I don't know that my head could have done that, the cremating thing. But I love these stories of when you have these pieces with them. Right. And I feel like I figuratively bring him everywhere, but. You really do.

[Madison Reuter]

I got him in my pocket. I can bring him around. So do you.

[Heather Straughter]

You have an urn. Do you have them in something and then you just scoop a little out and, like, I'm very stupid about this, but I need to know.

[Madison Reuter]

So he's in, like, a plastic bag that's in, like, a velvet pouch. I put that pouch in the urn. So it's like. Okay, okay. It's like, it looks nice. Whatever. It's not just a velvet sack on a shelf. And then I take the bag out when I go.

[Heather Straughter]

You take all of him when you go. So if. So if you. I know this is, like, I'm sorry.

[Madison Reuter]

I really do. No, don't apologize. I love this. Because I don't get to talk about this with. Everyone thinks I'm weird.

[Heather Straughter]

No. I'm, like, oddly obsessed.

[Madison Reuter]

No. I bring him everywhere. Like, his favorite band was Cage the Elephant. They came back. I went with my brother and. And Jake, my boyfriend. And I'm literally not kidding you. This bag has, like, two strings on the side. My brother's holding one string, I'm holding the other, and we're dancing with this bag of ashes. It was I. The people around us are like, what the hell is even that?

[Heather Straughter]

Like, I am obsessed. I think that is the most beautiful thing. I love everything about that. I think that is so awesome. The only thing that would stress me out is if you, like. So when they confiscated him, that was it.

[Madison Reuter]

Oh, I was panicking. Yeah. I definitely shouldn't be bringing the whole thing.

[Heather Straughter]

I feel like we should. We should divide that. Yeah, Yeah. I feel like we should have the travel bag and then the, like, stay in the, urn, bag.

[Madison Reuter]

Right. That is so real.

[Heather Straughter]

So let me ask you this. Do you talk to his parents?

[Madison Reuter]

Like, do you. To his mom.

[Heather Straughter]

To his mom.

[Madison Reuter]

Still really close.

[Heather Straughter]

And does she, like, does she know that you bring him around?

[Madison Reuter]

Oh, yeah. She knows everything, and she loves that. Yeah. She's very much like me in the way that we're handling our grief. Like, she's very open about it. She talks about it, and she, you know, lets people know. And she loves that I bring him places.

[Heather Straughter]

I'm sure she does.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah.

[Heather Straughter]

Like, I would. That's awesome. Did Regis have siblings?

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah, he has three siblings.

[Heather Straughter]

Okay. You know, we talked on the show once with, like, sibling grief. I'm oddly. I feel like. I like to say I'm obsessed with a lot of things lately, but that's. That's a. It's a thing that I think about. Right. And it's interesting. Like, I just wonder with them. Right. Like, because it's almost. The focus is always on the parents or the partners or the, you know, the siblings are forgotten. And I wonder, kind of, like, along for the journey.

[Madison Reuter]

Like, they're. They might have a little bit of say here and there, but people really.

[Heather Straughter]

Care about the different relationships a little bit.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah. I mean, I know his. His brother has. Has done a lot of really cool things with his grief. Like, he. I mean, actually, even before. And this kind of ties into the anticipatory grief of it all. Like, he wrote an album about Regis's mental health, and he's a musician, so some of the songs he wrote. It's like, I listened to them before Regis died, and now I'm listening to them after Regis died. I'm like, oh, my God. Like, we all knew.

[Heather Straughter]

It's interesting that, you know, so the anticipatory grief thing. I was one of the guests on the show. I was reading her book, and she talked about how sometimes people have a hard time grieving because so much of their emotion was tied up in the anticipatory grief, or they felt like they've already grieved. Yes. Like, you've been living in this world or in this headset or mindset for so long that you fear that the worst is going to happen, that when it actually does, it's less. I don't want to say impactful, because that's not the word, but it has less of an impact on you than this period where you're on eggshells waiting.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah. You almost become more analytical about it. Like, oh, this is what I've prepared for, so I can totally.

[Heather Straughter]

Now I'm ready to go on.

[Madison Reuter]

I definitely had a lot of that, too. Like, when it happened, you know, I said I wasn't shocked. I was very like, okay, let me, like, call my parents, let them know I'm going to call. You know, I was in college at the time. I'm going to call the school, figure out the resources, talk to all my professors. I'm going to, you know, like a checklist. I figured it all out. And then after all of that, I.

[Heather Straughter]

Was like, oh, here it is.

[Madison Reuter]

So I didn't away from it like, it is here.

[Heather Straughter]

You just pushed it down the curb a little bit. What made you want to do the podcast? Your podcast?

[Madison Reuter]

It's a hard question. I feel like it just kind of happened, and it was almost similar to how you started Jake's Help from Heaven. Like, it was not that long after he died. And I think I was just looking for ways to feel like I wasn't drowning in it. And I think talking about it for me was hard because, you know, being the age that I am, a lot of people haven't even, you know, experienced the death of their grandparents. Like, most people have not experienced, like, suicide, schizophrenia. You know what I mean? So I felt really, really alone in it. And I think for me, it was kind of like, you know, how do I talk with people? And how do I actually have these conversations without cornering my poor friends who, you know, literally don't know what to say to me? They're just like, oh, yeah, sorry, that sucks. So, you know, how do I talk to people who get it?

[Heather Straughter]

Part of, you know, it's funny because there's so much of this conversation that I've so enjoyed, and I did not see it going in some of the directions. Like, I Am filled with such joy as I picture you dancing at a concert with Regis. Like, I love that so much. When Liv died and, you know, Ethan lost his brother and there's been other death in his life, but I think the death of a peer when you're young, you know, the death of a fellow teenager, of a young person is so impactful at that age. I know for a lot of us parents, it was hard and is hard to sort of figure out how to be there. This is a loaded question, but how can people my age comfort people your age when they are going through things like this?

[Madison Reuter]

This is my. This is my soapbox right here. I think it's really weird. When you're young and people your age die, you kind of realize, like. Like, you're not safe. Nobody is safe. When the bad thing happens, you kind of think you're safe, but then you're like, wait, no, this could also happen to me. And I think for a lot of us, it's our first experience with, like, knowing that we're not also gonna live forever. There are many times where I'm actually afraid that I'm gonna become schizophrenic. I think about it so much, anytime I'm, like, in a weird depressive state, I'm like, is this. Is it happening to me? And I think, like, just for the younger people, something that somebody told me, like, suicide, in my case, it's not something that happens to you. Like, I thought it was going to happen to me, too, but it's not something that happens to you. It's, you know, it's something you do. And so that kind of got me out of that cycle of, like, freaking out that I was also going to just, like, it just would have die from. I think, too, it's hard because there's a lot of, you know, milestones and life experiences that you now have to live yourself. And that's no different from other people who are experiencing grief, but especially when you're so young. There's so many things in life that we're gonna experience, and there's always gonna be that other side of, like, this person is not gonna get to go through it. You know, like, this year I'm gonna be 25, and that makes me officially older than Regis. And that's weird, and that sucks. I think for me, like, what I would have needed from the older people around me was somebody to just listen and not, like, try to fix it or try to tell me, like, death is a part of life. This is what happens. Blah Blah, blah. And just to be, like, actually there just to listen. I think a lot of times, especially our parents, they don't want us to feel awful. They want to fix it. They want to make it feel better. But this is one of those things that doesn't feel better and that sometimes we just have to talk about it without feeling like, you know, the older person is gonna try to, like, cure it. Because there's no cure for grief. It just is. And it sucks and it hurts. And I think that's all normal. And I think I'm lucky to have that perspective as a young person because of, you know, the good and bad of social media. But this is one of the good things is, like, finding that community, feeling like we can be open and honest. But there is nothing like being open and honest with your parents. And, you know, they understand you in a different way. So just being able to feel heard and not feeling like someone is trying.

[Heather Straughter]

To fix you, I think that's huge advice. And I'm trying. Like, as you're talking, and I'm like, heather, shut up. Like, you know, this is. Because it's so classic.

[Madison Reuter]

It's.

[Heather Straughter]

It's classic parent. It's classic mom. Right? Like, and when you said that, it really hit home. Because with anything, like, not even the big topics of grief, like, I really have to force myself to just shut up when Ethan's telling me anything. Cause I do. I wanna fix it.

[Madison Reuter]

I know the answer.

[Heather Straughter]

Yeah. You know, and I just think that's such. It's really important advice. And, you know, it's always comforting for the people who are in grief to just hear conversations about grief. Cause like you said, it makes them feel not alone. But a few people are like, I love when I have a takeaway. Right? Like, I love when I have something that I now know how to help my friend or my daughter or my cousin or my husband, like, whoever's grieving. Like, I have a toolkit almost of things to do. Thank you for that. Because I think that a lot of people need to hear that. And. Yeah, and we like to make it bigger than it is. We like to think that the solution is bigger, but oftentimes the solution is be quiet, listen and acknowledge. Right?

[Madison Reuter]

Like, that's more honestly, like, I can imagine as parents, I mean, even me as an older sibling, like, when. When my brother's going through stuff, I just. I'm like, oh, I've been there. Like, I want to fix it. I want to help you. And. And you can't. Like, sometimes you just have to sit with them.

[Heather Straughter]

Yeah. My last thing that I wanted to ask and I've been back and forth with this, you know, I know Jake a little bit. How is he with all this? He seems so unfazed. Yeah, but is he unfazed or does it feel sometimes like there's another person in your relationship? Right. Like, I mean, how. And if that's like personal, then.

[Madison Reuter]

No, no, no, no. This is really interesting. I mean, I think I'm super lucky in this experience because he has always accepted that Regis is there. Like he's just a part of this.

[Heather Straughter]

And like he's coming to a concert with you.

[Madison Reuter]

Yep. Like he's just on the journey with me. You know what I mean? I know not everybody has that, but I think Jake is just very level headed and just like emotionally mature. And it's, it's so hard because I think a lot of people will think like, oh, well, if Regis was here, you would still be with him and you wouldn't even like know Jake or whatever. But the reality is, is that's not the reality. You know, at the end of the day, like I chose to move forward and I guess like, overall it's never been a weird thing. I can talk about Regis with Jake. I can be open about it. I can share stories, experiences, and it's never been something that he's made a thing. So I feel really lucky in that regard. Cause I know a lot of people like think it's weird or like don't want to share those stories or just there's almost like a weird competition of.

[Heather Straughter]

Like, well, that I was like, you know, I do think that there is and you said like emotional maturity. I do think there is some emotional maturity at that. Right. Like to be confident and comfortable enough to have hold space for Regis and be okay with it, but be confident in your relationship. I think it's beautiful. I love it.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah. Yeah. He definitely doesn't make it like a thing. And he will even ask me about Regis. Like, you know, it's not something I always have to bring up. Like sometimes he'll just be like, oh, did Regis like to do this? Or did you guys ever do this together? So he actually makes it normal for me. I love that I don't have to take that first step of talking about it every time.

[Heather Straughter]

That's awesome. I think about you met him when you were 13 and you guys are spending the bulk of really that part of your childhood together. I know that I think back very, very long time ago, but I think back to Some of those years. And I think of my best friends at that time. Right?

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah.

[Heather Straughter]

And they are like nothing else. It's like when I was becoming who I'm going to be. And when you're testing boundaries and pushing the envelope and making horrific choices, at least in my teenage years, real bad choices. When that person is no longer with you, does that impact any of those memories? Or have you been able to work through that? And how do you feel with that? Because I think of those and I think of safety and happiness and. I don't know. Part of that is age, making it one way. But how is that for you?

[Madison Reuter]

This is a really good question. And it's very complicated because my entire life is basically Madison and Regis, Regis and Madison. You know, it was always that every milestone I've ever had, Regis was there or a part of in some way. So I think it's always bittersweet looking back on literally my entire life, because I almost don't even remember my life before him. Like, who was I? You know, I don't know. But, you know, my music tastes, the movies I like, you know, all of these, like, things about me were formed through him. And he was a year older than me, so it was always like, you know, he always knew more than me, and he always had. He always knew the cool music and, you know, whatever. It's hard to look back on all of that. And, you know, like, music specifically is a really big thing for me. And just like, all the songs I listen to, all the concerts I go to, it's a hard thing. And there's just so much of me that is attached to him, which is also weird because in a way, I almost feel like a living part of him. He's not here, but I'm literally basically him. You know, we have the same interests, same sense of humor. Like, if you met him and I, you would be like, these people are exactly the same. In a way, it's like losing part of yourself and not knowing how to be a person without that. And that has been one of the hardest parts for me. It's weird, kind of almost being his memory keeper in a way. Like, I'm the person who can share all those things, and I'm the only one with access to that. So in a weird way, it almost gives me this responsibility to live when even sometimes I don't want to because I'm kind of what's left.

[Heather Straughter]

Madison. I love that. I mean, I don't love that because I feel the weight of that, but I love that Perspective on it. Because when you're that entwined with someone, I feel you. Right. Like, it's like, who are you without them? You know? But then you really are the keeper of all of the things, because that's part of that friendship at that age. Right. And that's part of how you live at that age. Right. Is just. I don't know. It's so. I feel like you live in the extremes at that age. Right? Like, you feel all the feels, and it's codependent and it's, like, intense and as it should be because it's your teenage years. It is what it is. I like that you can take from that and, I don't know, be the keeper of those memories. I don't want that to be too much, like, responsibility or pressure on you, but I think that. That if you can see it that way, it's kind of a. Yeah, I.

[Madison Reuter]

Mean, that's kind of the only way I can see it, because if not, I'm like, well, this sucks, and I gotta go, you know? So that's kind of been the thing that keeps me going is, like, being able to share him, and that goes back to the podcast, and that goes back to the ways that I choose to keep him here, because that's what we have left. You know, everyone going through grief, you know, it's like, you knew Jake his whole life. Like, you are the one with all of those memories, and then, like, you know, if you choose not to share them, then. Then where is Jake?

[Heather Straughter]

It just stops. Yeah. So we have reached the portion of our show where you get to ask Heather anything.

[Madison Reuter]

I have so many things. I feel like we need to do another episode on my podcast to, like, get into even more, like, the weird.

[Heather Straughter]

Niche stuff of which there's so much.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah, right. So I think maybe I'll just do more of, like, a. A general version of everything. I want to ask you what is the weirdest thing that your grief has made you do?

[Heather Straughter]

Oh, God.

[Madison Reuter]

Or, like, have you had, like, a. Like, a weird conflict in your grief that you, like, can't figure out because you feel like you're doing the wrong thing, but it's, like, really doesn't. You know what I mean?

[Heather Straughter]

So this is, like, a generalized answer of this, because I feel like there's so many. Especially in the early part of my grief, for me, it took me a while to figure out how to just own my grief and be okay with it and not to be emotionally responsive to how people thought I should grieve. And because of that. I lived in this really angry space for a while. But it was. I now know it wasn't so much anger that Jake died. And there was certainly some of that. Like, I'm not saying it wasn't there, but it was anger in how people responded to me. And I'm embarrassed a little bit by it now, but I would get really obstinate or, like, defensive or, you know, just kind of like, I didn't have the perspective to recognize people were trying to help. So I just was kind of an asshole. Do you know what I mean? And sometimes it would be people who really care about me that would be like, I hate to see you so angry. And that would make me irate, and I would just explode on them. It took me a long time to find perspective with my grief. I just existed in this world where it was all about me. And I think that's very common in grief, like, to flip the lens and realize that other people are impacted kind of twofold. Right. Like, they're impacted by the loss of the same person, but they're also impacted by seeing someone they love so impacted by it.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah. And then feeling like they can't grieve as much or, like. And it's, like, where they stand and.

[Heather Straughter]

Making people so uncomfortable with it. And I feel like that's a little bit of a weird answer about it. But all these years later, when I look back at that, it's what I'm embarrassed by. Because I wasn't very nice to people.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah.

[Heather Straughter]

And there's part of me that's like, it's okay your kid died, but you know what I mean? But they're really recognizing now all the things I know about grief and all the different ways people experience it. I made it all about me, but it really wasn't all about me.

[Madison Reuter]

Right. I have such a weird one, and it's very different. But Regis mom gave me a bag of his stuff, and I literally can't wash it. And I go back and forth. I have this war with myself about it. I'm like, well, if I wash it, you know, maybe in a way it's like a sign of respect. And I can, like, wash it all and fold it and wash away that part of him that, you know, like this whole metaphor in my head and, like, put it in a box. But then the other part of me is like, his literal DNA is on it. And then what if I wash that away? Then it's literally gone, and I can't unwash it if I wash it. So, like, what do you do? And.

[Heather Straughter]

Well, I can tell you I have two pieces of Jake's clothing that are not washed in my closet to this day. Like, I can tell you exactly where they are. One is the shirt that he was wearing when 911 came in, like, the MTs and they cut it off of him. The reason we called 911 was like, he was aspirating, and there was. Like, it was horrible. Fourteen years later, it's still there. Not washing it. Will never wash it. And then there's this other shirt. So Jake, like, he ate by mouth, but, like, he was. It was really hard to feed him, and he would. He threw up. But so I have this other shirt that has his throw up on it. Like, I literally.

[Madison Reuter]

You can't.

[Heather Straughter]

I will never. Like, it's in my closet. They're right there. I mean, I could take a picture of them. Like, it's kind of weird. Like, they're. They don't really smell or anything, but it's like, I will never wash them, right? Like, I will never wash them.

[Madison Reuter]

People. Like, that's one of those things that people are like, well, just do it. Like, it's not.

[Heather Straughter]

But no, like, but it is. No, it's like. And it's like there's those moments that you will never, ever, ever get back. They will never make a sound again. Like. Like, that's. I struggled with that. Right? Like, I'll never hear him make a noise again. Like, I'll. Like those things that are just gone forever. And to me, I don't care like that. It's weird and really sort of disgusting. Like, I just. That's. That's a living. It's something I still have of his.

[Madison Reuter]

Yeah.

[Heather Straughter]

So I'm with you. Don't wash him. Thank you, Madison, so much. I have so enjoyed having you on this show. I feel like I could talk to you forever. I appreciate you.

[Madison Reuter]

Thank you so much. You'll have to come back on my show. I would love it for a part two. I love it.

[Heather Straughter]

And for those of you who have enjoyed this conversation with Madison, I highly encourage you to check out her podcast. It is called and also. And you can listen to it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to A Place of Yes. Please follow us wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you really like this episode, please share it with a friend. It would make a world of difference if we could just reach more people and share the work that we do and the stories we want to tell. Thank you so much for watching.