← A Place of Yes | A Grief Podcast 
A Place of Yes | A Grief Podcast
When Grief and Fear Collide: Surviving Loss, Trauma, and A Stalker
00:58:19
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- [00:00]
A
Hi, I'm Heather Straughter and this is A Place of Yes. In each episode, we have honest conversations about grief. The messy parts, the unexpected moments, and the ways we begin to heal through heartfelt stories and expert advice. My hope is to offer you comfort, connection, and a reminder that you don't have to navigate this alone. Today I'm joined by Cassie Willis, a listener of A Place of yes who reached out to share a story shaped by profound grief, survival, and extraordinary resilience. After losing her father in a house fire and later walking alongside her husband Dave through terminal cancer, Cassie found herself navigating unimaginable loss while also enduring years of stalking that turned her family's life upside down. In this conversation, she reflects on trauma, motherhood, therapy, boundaries, and the hard won clarity that comes from learning what truly matters. It's raw, honest, and deeply moving and I'm grateful to share it with you. I am so happy for today's episode because every once in a while I meet someone through this show that I ordinarily would not have met. And today's guest, Cassie Willis, is one of them. She reached out to me as a listener, which never gets old. I love that so much. And she sent me just this really nice note that said, thank you for creating a place where I can come and listen to other people's stories. And it's really what we do here, right? Like we tell stories, we share stories in the hopes that other people hear them and feel community. So thank you, Cassie, for reaching out. Thank you for trusting me with your story and welcome to the show.
- [01:39]
B
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
- [01:43]
A
So your story has all of the elements of, like, the grief story, but there's also a unique element to yours. And it, it really rung to me about two things. One is grief doesn't care what you have going on in your life, right? Like, grief shows up anytime. And one of the things that you had going on in your life, like, that you had to deal with through this grief journey is a stalker. Can you start, and I'm sorry to jump right into this, but like, can you start with giving us a glimpse of your life? And then I want to talk about the important people, you know, not the stalker, but the important people in your life that were what was happening during them. But can you just start off by giving us a little glimpse of your life at that point?
- [02:33]
B
So I would say that prior to meeting my stalker, I had everything that seemed my life was going exactly as I could have ever dreamed. Right. So I quit my job. My daughter was becoming of school age and I just decided that I couldn't travel anymore for work. So I quit my job, I opened a cafe in my town, I bought a food truck and it was going exactly how I could dream. And business was going great and I was, you know, flourishing in many different avenues with that. And then being able to be home every day at 3 o' clock to be with my daughter and have a family was just icing on the cake. It was just absolutely amazing. And when I initially met my stalker, I didn't realize that he was a stalker. Right. So he was a customer, just like every other customer. He would come in and I didn't think anything about it. I know everybody by name and what they order. It's relatively rare to get not the same people every day in our town. So he would come in and it was normal. My husband at the time would say, you know, he's, he's not. He gave him a vibe of, you know, this, this wasn't normal. His interactions, they were just. He would stay a lot longer and I would say, oh, you know, he's just, he's older, he's alone, he's just looking for, you know, to come in to have lunch. So I really, I was kind of naive in that area that it was, it. He was just like every other customer.
- [04:27]
A
Well, so often we want to see the good in people. Right. Like, it's hard to, you know.
- [04:32]
B
Right. And that's, and, and that is one. It's almost a blessing and a curse sometimes when you do truly try to, to see everyone in a light of good positivity and wish everybody well. Right. And so started out very. It's business, right. And you, you got to be nice to everybody that comes in or you, you won't be in business.
- [04:58]
A
Yes.
- [04:59]
B
Right. So that's how it started. And then, you know, my, I went through my series of tragedies and that's when he kind of escalated, was when all of those tragedies started.
- [05:15]
A
You know, I'm thinking of how he started, right. Like, and I've had that same feeling, right. Like everything is going like life is good, right. And it's. And you don't even think that anything can change. Like, I remember, you know, when Jake got sick, like, up until that point, like, I was kind of like, I had no complaints. I'm not saying everything was perfect all the time, but, but life is good. And then it's, it's always surprising to me, right, how like the Shift can happen. And then all of a sudden it's like you find yourself, like, gasping for air because you're like, wait, what happened? Like, I was here and now I'm here. So let's touch on some of the tragedies, because I think the whole stalker situation was like, enhanced and weaved through all of this. And you'd think to whoever the powers may be, like, hey, I'm dealing with this. Don't you think that's enough? But it seems like everything just piled on.
- [06:09]
B
And that's the sad reality, is the constant was always my stalker. And unfortunately, I went through so much tragedy and trauma, but one thing that had always remained was him. And that's. It's sad that ultimately all. All of my tragedy and trauma also gave him fuel to make it to compound, and he would escalate in those horrible times of my life.
- [06:40]
A
When we talk about these tragedies, right. Like, the first one was your father in the town that you live in. Like, your father was nearby and he died suddenly in a house fire. Do I have that right?
- [06:51]
B
Yep. Correct. Yeah. In 2017, March 19th of 2017, he died in a house fire. And it was, you know, through. Our village is just. We're so blessed. But it was all of the. I knew everybody that was at the scene. And so, yeah, he passed then. And really the community. I couldn't. I don't know how I. Because I didn't. I really did it. I struggled. That. That was the beginning of a lot of struggle for me because I couldn't wrap my head around it.
- [07:37]
A
Well, I was going to say, like, loss is loss and it's so hard, but I. I still believe and I know that there's, you know, there's no hierarchy of grief and all of these things that people say, but some losses just strike harder. And I think that those unexpected losses are so hard. Like, And. And the, like unexplainable almost right.
- [07:58]
B
Like, it's right and there's no preparing right. So I. I woke up that day completely normal. He was my first customer of that day, and the fire chief was my last customer of that day. And. And then I'll never forget in the middle of the night, the knock on the door. And I had no idea that my entire world from that moment was really going to. It was such a pivotal change that. And I. And I. It still sometimes doesn't seem real. And it's like, did that actually happen? Because you go back to your life before and you're like, I was doing great. And Then that one knock changed it all.
- [08:45]
A
Don't you? Sometimes. Well, I won't put my feelings on yours, but, like, sometimes I'm like, I just want to rewind. Like, right. How. Like, literally, it was that, like, knock. And how strange. Like, I always look for meaning in things, and I don't always think there is meaning in things, but. But, you know, your dad was your first customer of the day and the fire chief your last. Like, that's. It's gotta mean something. I don't know what. But.
- [09:11]
B
And that. That was the thing is, like, I always took solace in knowing that when they went in to try to help, it was everybody I knew. And nobody knew that it was my father. Cause he had just relocated. He was a federal warden and he had relocated from Colorado. And so he hadn't been here for that long. So nobody really knew. They all know me so well, but they didn't know it was his house until they saw on the table my name and all of this paperwork. And they were like, oh. They realized where, you know, that the connection. That it was my father. Yeah.
- [09:54]
A
Was the fire, like, just a. Accidental.
- [09:59]
B
Yeah. So they ended up. They ruled it as electrical because they didn't really know. They did. A bunch of. The insurance company came in because unfortunately, was a total loss from just the smoke damage on the inside. But, yeah, so it was just ruled accidental. And. And I don't really. I always wonder about it so much because it's like, how do you not know? And he was so healthy, but it was. He was sleeping and they did. They found him by the door where he was trying to get out.
- [10:41]
A
Oh, God. So, yeah, you know, it's. You know, it's kind of like what you said, like blessing and a curse. A little bit of some things. Right.
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B
And.
- [10:51]
A
And I do think. I would imagine that there's some comfort in it because I think about Jake's story, right? And the night that Jake started to aspirate and, you know, we had to call 911 and we live around the corner from the fire department in our town. And they were. So. They were there instantly and all of this stuff was happening. But when we got to the emergency room, I walked into the hospital and the doctor on call was Ethan, my other son's friend's father. And he knew Jake and he knew our story, and he knew all of these things where literally, if it was like any other shift, they would have been like, wait, what's happening? Because Ethan or Jake was in a. Like a spica cast. Then there was all these things, but there's that I always rested well knowing that Todd was the one there and that he gave it his all, because the last thing he wanted to do was, like, look me in the eye and tell me that, you know, Jake had passed. So I knew, like, there's. So I imagine with you, too, like, you at least, you know, that they did everything because the last thing they probably wanted to, you know, and not that they wouldn't take care of anybody in the same way, but there's that connection.
- [12:00]
B
And that was the. That's where I always found comfort and is that they were. They were with them because they did try to. They were able to get a pulse and they had the medevac on its way, and then they had to call it off. So they were all there essentially in my. In my mind, helping him transition. And so I. At least that. That does bring me comfort because these are all. They're not just friends. They're pretty much like my family now as well. So it's, you know, the. The. The beauty and the pain altogether.
- [12:39]
A
Like, I. And sometimes it's like, it helps keep, I don't know, his memory alive because you're connected by people who are also part of, like you said, the transition, you know, and how. So that. But I go back to, like, that unexpected. Like, how are. How do you deal with that now? Like, how. How old was your daughter? Like, was she close with him? Because you were very close with your dad, Correct?
- [13:01]
B
So we were. We had a strained relationship for a number of years, and he had moved all over the country again for his job. And so at his level, they would always move you every couple of years to a new prison. He was a federal warden, and so for majority of my life, he wasn't around here. I went to school at the University of Colorado, and so he was in Colorado at the time, and so we grew closer then. And then ultimately, when he wanted to retire, he chose to. To come back here to retire and to be closer to my family. And I think that that's where the grief is compounded. Right, because we at. We were finally getting years together that we could, you know, heal and start to rebuild, start a new bond. Right. And it just kind of. It. It got taken away. He was only two years out of retirement when the fire happened, too. So it just like you work so hard all your life and. And then, unfortunately, you don't get to totally, you know, reap the benefits of. Of that. So I think that it was hard. My grief was compounded because I had a lot of guilt because I, you know, and it was a. Wasn't guilt. It was just guilt that we were kind of robbed of this time.
- [14:37]
A
It's like grief forces you sometimes to think about things that even, like. Even, like your sane mind knows is not necessarily true. But, like, you can get stuck in those patterns, right? Of like, oh, if I hadn't, like, lost that time, then we wouldn't be needing to make up the time. Or, like, I. I don't know, like, because my mind does it too. Like, you can make these. It's not really justifications, but it's like, almost like punishing yourself sometimes.
- [15:03]
B
Right.
- [15:03]
A
And it's just like another layer. Your father passed away, and that was 2017.
- [15:08]
B
2017. Yeah.
- [15:10]
A
And then shortly thereafter, your husband was diagnosed with cancer.
- [15:16]
B
He was diagnosed with colon cancer in 2019. 2019 into 2020, because we were. We started to feel the COVID burden. His initial colonoscopy was put off because they didn't deem it. It wasn't one of the essential.
- [15:35]
A
God, I forgot about that word. They word it like essential. That was the key of everything back then.
- [15:42]
B
Remember, they had canceled it, and then he just. He was still having such horrible things. Pain, that they were able. Our doctor was wonderful and was able to de. You know, say, no, this is essential. We need to get this done. And they went in and found his initial tumor. And so he was already stage three at that point. But his. His tumor, his cancer journey was rare in that his. They believed that it had been growing for most likely about 10 years.
- [16:19]
A
Oh, wow.
- [16:20]
B
And it just. He didn't. He didn't have any symptoms, and he was, you know, young at diagnosis. He was 43. So it.
- [16:31]
A
We.
- [16:32]
B
We were not prepared for that diagnosis at all.
- [16:36]
A
And it's one of those where, like, so you're not prepared, but you're also, like, you're. You're not starting at the beginning either. Like, you're right. Getting it already when it's progressed.
- [16:50]
B
And we, you know, throughout his journey, he also was. He was amazing in that he was. Oh, he's the most unique individual ever. But he also was unique with cancer. So he had a genetic mutation where he was resistant to chemo.
- [17:07]
A
It's like when you don't want to be unique.
- [17:08]
B
Yes. The perfect storm. Yeah. Like, oh, okay, great. So he did reach Ned for a brief period of time, but unfortunately, just based on his mutation, he. It quickly came back and was stage four there soon after.
- [17:31]
A
Like, they call that compounded grief. Right. But before we had these like official names that's just like you're getting hit over and over and over again. And how old was your daughter? Cause then you're also parenting someone who's losing their dad, right?
- [17:47]
B
And I think that that was. She was eight when he was diagnosed. But I very much didn't accept what was going on. And I realized that now through you know, intensive therapy that like, I was still so optimistic that it was like, okay, we're going to. I would just, I would stay up all night and when I, when, when my trauma happens to me, I can't. Like, there's no sleeping. It's like I constantly am trying to figure out what, what the next thing is. And so with, with Dave, it was. I would just stay up all night listening to podcasts and listening to, okay, who did they go to for a doctor? And so I, I constantly was parlaying different areas that we could go get second opinions. And we did like a very revolutionary. It was a intensive surgery that not a lot of people are able to, to have done, but I was able to meet with a doctor that I just like pled our case to down in at Mount S. And so Dave was one of the few people that had received this surgery. But unfortunately the. It was, there was just, it was too far spread when they had gotten in there. But I didn't realize at the time I was just constantly, every day it was like, okay, so we're making new phone calls. Like, I was calling all over the country of where, you know, MD Anderson and you know, we did, we went to so many different locations to try to meet with doctors and get him into trials because of his mutation. He was kind of unique in that way where they do have a lot of cutting edge stuff. But unfortunately we, we went for a trial and they were like, he's really sick. He has to go into the hospital. And we had flown down to down in Maryland and he'll never forget it. I was like, well, he's not. Because if he goes in the hospital down here, we're not getting out. Like, I knew it at the time. So I was like, we're like, okay, well we're just gonna go back to the hotel and pack up. And then we went back to the hotel and got the next flight home. And from that on, he really was in and out frequently where. Yeah, was months at a time.
- [20:35]
A
There's so much of what you said that I think so many people will relate to. And you know, I think sometimes it's that idea Right. Of, like, you know, you don't really face what's happening. But I think that's almost like a defense mechanism. Right? Because it's like, if you stay, like, you're still looking so hard for an answer. And I remember doing that with Jake, and it was. It was the early 2000s, so there was not, like, there wasn't as much, like, Internet stuff. Like, you. Like, obviously you could search the Internet, but it wasn't like today's world. But I remember just, like, someone's gotta figure out how to help him. Like, there's gotta be someone. Cause how. It's, like, too impossible to think that. It's just that there isn't, you know? So I think that kind of, like, who else can we go to? Who else can we go to? And then also, you said that piece about, like, wait, if we go into the hospital, we're not getting out. And I remember that feeling too, because it's like when you have a really sick person, right? Like, you know, they want to keep you. And it's. I used to say, like, Jake, you know, there's these, like, milestones that you have to make before you can be discharged. And I was like, he's never going to make them. So we're out. Like, we gotta go.
- [21:45]
B
Like, right?
- [21:47]
A
Yeah.
- [21:47]
B
Yeah. And that. And that's the thing is, like, until you do have that, like, you. You become part of the hospital almost. You're like, oh, I'm part of the staff now. I can. I. I can join in on my. I know where everything is. Like, well, I'm making milkshakes for the nurses in the middle of the night. Because that was also. I was like, he was so sick, and I'm also so stubborn. I was like, I'm not leaving. Like, there is just. And he can't advocate for himself. So I, you know, I. I'm so blessed that my sister was able to. She dropped everything in her life and. And really, like, moved in here with my daughter so that I could just focus on staying with Dave. And. And I didn't leave the hospital. And so there's, you know, so much of Maisie's journey that I wasn't present for, because I. I couldn't focus on it. All right? And so it just felt like the only thing I could do was try to focus on him and. And doing anything to try to either make him comfortable or advocate for the next possible thing that could be done to. To combat. He had. His pain was, like, something that the doctors had never seen before. So it was. We came home just. He came home on a drip in his back. And they've never done it at our local hospital. And he might. They might never again do it again. And they would come every day with bags of fentanyl. I just remember them showing up and they're like, you have the most, like, amount of fentanyl in one location in the state. And this guy would just. Every day he would come with be. And I'm like. And in my brain it's like. And I just don't. I didn't. I knew the severity, but I also wasn't accepting it. So it was like, well, this is norm. This is our new normal.
- [23:55]
A
It becomes your normal, right? Like, it's normal to you at that point. Because it's sort of. So I. I'm. I'm thinking of all of this as you're talking, right? And it's like you not only are having, like, one loss after another, and you're fighting, like, because in that time when you're like, fighting for Dave, like, that is. I always say, like, advocating for a sick person is a full time job. Like, it is full time. And then you almost feel bad when you're sleeping because you're like, what could I have gotten? What could I have thought of? Like, it's just. It takes all of your energy. And then I think, what is just to think that as all of this is happening and you kind of reference, like, you're like, thank God for your sister who could take care of your daughter. Like, help. Because there's only so much you can do. Like, it's almost like you're trying to compartmentalize all of these things or focus on, like, find the thing to focus on. Because if you think of the whole thing, it's just too much. And at the same time, this stalker that you have is highly active, correct? Like, he's doing his thing.
- [24:57]
B
He started to get really bad. So when my dad passed, I closed the cafe down. And then it was in like 2018. He started to. We were building my pool and I would go outside and I'm like, it's so bizarre. He's sitting at the end of the driveway, like. And Dave's like, this is not normal. Like, And I'm like. And I would go out. Me and my daughter would go out. And I'm like. He's just like. But again, I am, like, so weird. Like, I'm just seeing them everywhere. I know. I did not think, like, I was like, it's creepy. But I didn't I still was like, oh, it's just how he is, because he was still coming in every day
- [25:45]
A
acting like it's normal, right? Like, just being like, acting like, right?
- [25:48]
B
And he, at one point had put. He was taking photographs of me when I was walking into, like, our little local store, and he had put them on our community page, and I had said something to him. I'm like, that's really bizarre, and it makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. And he brushed it off. And so he had come in one time left. I open up my email, and it's an email from somebody I've never gotten an email from. So I was like, this is weird. And I open up all of the attachments, and it's like 20 nude photographs of him with various women. And so he found my personal email, which I shared with my daughter. And so I was like, okay, now it feels like now we've. We've crossed into a territory that we cannot get back from. And so I had enough. I had already blocked him on social media because he had already. He was, like, sending just aerial photographs of my house, and it was, like, incessant. And I just was like, okay, I'm gonna just block him. I'm not going to engage. But I had enough common sense at the time to say, well, if I email him back, he can say I never received it. So I unblocked him on social media and I sent him, you know, I received your. Your email. It was highly unprofessional. You crossed a number of boundaries. Like, I was in my brain, I thought that I was, like, being.
- [27:34]
A
Shutting it down about it, right?
- [27:36]
B
And I'm shutting it down, and I'm not. I'm not using name calling because it's high, you know, and these are young women. Like, it was very inappropriate. And so from that moment on. And he responded. So I had a read receipt that he had gotten it, and then he responded with all of. Just this blathering. And from that moment, on November 19th of 2019, he, like, escalated to levels that are just like. It's actually kind of. It's normal for me, unfortunately, that, like, it's like, oh, this is just another how, you know. Because he then would go every single day, and it wasn't just like, you know, it was the airplane, but I would look out my window. He would be sitting out front. I would be coming out of the woods. He would be sitting there. Like, it was everywhere I was. And not just me, my sister and. And my mother. Like, he. It would be like, everybody. It almost Felt like was not safe in a way. He was always watching.
- [28:47]
A
There's so much about that that's like so infuriating. And I'm thinking of like younger people who are listening right now, right? Because I think you and I are of similar age. And I think there's a point where like. And I want to talk about like law enforcement and like the cops and all of these things because unfortunately there are so many women who. Not to the degree of which you've had years of this in like the, the plane. And I want to talk about that a little bit too. Cause that's just one more like,
- [29:16]
B
I
- [29:16]
A
don't even know what the word is. Like one more degree of just like, wow, you know. But like in like, I think sometimes, I know sometimes because I've done it. Like, you know, people are being inappropriate or creepy or you have that bad feeling and all of that stuff. But there's still this part of us that doesn't want to hurt their feel feelings or wants to be kind or doesn't want to think it's that bad. Right? Like, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I know as I, as you're talking about that, like, I'm thinking of times in my life where I, I have done that. Or you try to, like, you don't want to piss them off more, so you try to like, okay, let me try. And there's part of me. And it is something, I think that the world has changed a little bit in a better place. Like where younger women now are like, that's crazy. Like, why would you ever have said that? You know? And I'm like, well, I don't know. But I do think like, so you. When, when did you bring in the cops? And they like, I just still think stalker laws also aren't strong enough. Like, this can go so far and we can say all of these things and you can do all the right things and still be having to deal with it.
- [30:23]
B
Right? So he. So that happened in November. And then I just. He. He stopped coming into the cafe, which thankfully. But he then ramped up everything on. On the ground and then in the air. And the air stuff was hard because like, I live right in the middle of our village and where I live, my cafe is, is very close to my actual personal residence. So every time he would fly, he would either be flying at my house or at the business. And it was not just normal flying patterns. It was like dive bombing to the point that the windows are shaking and every he would say, oh, I'm taking aerial photos. And so nobody really. He would then post them all on. On social media, but he's posting photos of my house, of my business, but nobody really. They were all like, oh, he. He's just taking pictures outside. And I'm like, suffering in silence like you guys have. No, because again, like, it was very hard to let a lot of people know what was happening because I'm also trying to run a business, right? And so it's like, where. In a small town across the street from our school, where it was like, okay, I have. I have this great safe space, but I'm also being tormented by this guy that nobody really understood what was going on. And so it wasn't Until June of 2020, we were waiting for my daughter's teacher assignment, and so I. She had. She had gone out and we had gotten a package, and she was like, she thought it was that. And I would. I instantly looked at it and it had my address. And then the return address was the cafe's address, and I don't get mail there. So I was like, this is not so that I would get it in either spot. And I was like, oh, so if I didn't returned it to sender or
- [32:34]
A
something, it's still going to you, right?
- [32:37]
B
Wow. And so I opened it up and it was just cutouts of me and my friends and just pages of ramblings about me. Um, and that's when I was like, okay, now we. I. I already knew who it was just based on the verbiage and, and the stuff that he had wrote me before. It was all very similar. And so I had reached out to the police at that point and he. They did an investigation and. And the package was sent from a post office locally that doesn't have cameras. So they were able to. To do that. The FBI then ultimately ended up getting the package. But the. So they. His original charge was just for harassment based on the email and the nude photographs. So. But unfortunately, what that started was being stuck in the legal system, because what would happen is he would hire and fire attorneys, so he never. Even on that initial charge, he. He would, you know, I had my restraining order, but it. He would be constantly not going. He never actually had to go to court, but throughout this time period, he's also breaking the restraining order. And so it. It was hard because, you know, it got to the point where I. I couldn't. It was so many times that I couldn't count how many times that it was broken. So you're calling and it's just, it's
- [34:23]
A
like you're stuck in a cycle of.
- [34:25]
B
Right.
- [34:27]
A
And I want to just say for those who are listening, who don't know. So he was a pilot, he had his pilot's license. So that's like when we're talking about him flying. He was literally flying a plane and your town, didn't they even like have to file a complaint against him or something? Because literally was flying like lower than legal.
- [34:49]
B
Right.
- [34:50]
A
I'm probably saying it wrong, but there's like a level you're supposed to fly at and he was below that.
- [34:55]
B
Yeah. So the FAA regulation, which is.
- [34:57]
A
That'd be the better way to say it.
- [35:00]
B
No, I mean, and, and they, I want to say that they were wonderful, but unfortunately that they were not. Because he would fly about three to four times a week, but he would start usually on Saturday mornings at 8 in the morning. Entire village would be woken up. And so a lot of residents started to flood the FAA website with, you know, complaints on it. And when the media foil requested all of those, they had no record of any of the, any of this. And so, you know, you go to the FAA and you're like, this is not, this is not normal. One, this behavior is not normal. But two, the medical research was like one avenue where we were that they would be able to pull his pilot's license because of that. But they just always said, oh, well, there's no way to gauge how high he's flying. So until we can prove that, which unfortunately is, is virtually impossible to prove,
- [36:07]
A
even though the entire village basically is complaining, like making the same complaint.
- [36:11]
B
Yeah, right. And what, what he would do is when he would take off, he would then turn off his transponder, which is not, but it also, you're not then in contact with any of the tower local towers. So if, if an event does occur, there is no way for you to be radioing back to, you know, the tower or that they have even where you are. I was diligent in the fact that on the ground I would be taking video. I have so much evidence, so much video and so much. And then I just finally I, I, I couldn't fight that fight anymore because it was just so normal and it was so part of my everyday. I'm like, this is how the rest of my life is going to be because nobody, nobody can't help it.
- [37:05]
A
You can't get ahead of it.
- [37:06]
B
Right. And he just was escalating. Like he then would, was making fake social media accounts. So, and Contacting that way. And so he's breaking the restraining order. But there's nothing like it. It just felt like I was on this island trying to save Dave, dealing with this, and it was just. I had to put a focus and my focus was Dave. And so I. For the longest, for a number of years, I just kind of knew that this is. I was going to live with him for the rest of my life. He was not going to stop. How.
- [37:47]
A
So let's go back to Dave then because, like, what. So Dave is fighting for his life. You're literally fighting for his life. This, like, is happening throughout. But it's so sad to me because it's so. It's so frustrating that like you said, like this just you accept this as your normal because you can't get ahead of it and you have to. And I hear that. So, like, you have to take care of your husband and your family and protect your daughter. Like all of these things then take precedence. But it's like, I don't know, it's just so annoying that you can't get ahead of it. So.
- [38:25]
B
And I think that was part of what was hard was Dave was like, even he was so, so sick. And he's like, this is not forever, Cassie. And I'm like, but it is, right? And like. And he's not going away. And, and, And I just remember Dave sitting in a wheelchair. I was, I finally, you know, I negotiated him to come home the last time. And, and we were very blessed that we had the team that we did because, you know, the surgeon, Dr. Kuhar, who was amazing and, and gave him the epidural to come home with, he would come to our house because he had to oversee it because it was so revolut. They've never done it before. And so, you know, we. I had so many people coming and I just remember Dave sitting there and stalker was out. Pulled up out front and he was so sick. And you. And you just know that, like, he had that feeling of like, wanting to
- [39:28]
A
protect us because he's your husband and you're dad and.
- [39:34]
B
Right. And. And I just remember him being like, I promise, Cassie, I promise this isn't forever. And it was like, this is. This is. It felt so much like it was. And, and so he. He transitioned on May 22 and, and leading up to that, you know, the soccer knew that we had come home and he got. He escalated, so he was flying a lot more. And so, you know, Steve's in the bed transitioning, and all I can hear is, is the plane. And it's like, you know, And I had just met with the troopers a couple days before that because they had set up a couple of things where, you know, he. They had more evidence of. Of all of the stuff that he was doing. And it was like, I am wasting my time fighting this fight when I know that what is. What is happening now? Because I accepted it, right? And so he. Dave transitioned. And I just remember getting this call, and it was because now that he's flying so much that. That the neighbors have all, like, banded together. I'm completely checked out, like, removed, right? I'm just focusing on. On Dave. And the neighbors had all been together and contacted the media. And I remember getting a call from Jackie, who is the. The news anchor, and she's like, we have to do this story. We. And I'm like. In my brain, I'm like, nobody's cared for so many years. Like, why now? Right? And so I was like, okay. Like. And I. I have a different belief system on burial and stuff, so I wasn't doing any form of conventional services for Dave. So I. She was like, okay, I'm on May 25th. This is what. And I was like. So I'm like, I literally. I'm putting mascara on to go do this news story. And I'm like, I should be burying Dave right now. Like, yeah.
- [41:50]
A
Like, it's, like, surreal sense. Yeah.
- [41:52]
B
Yeah. Like. And it was like I was watching my life in slow mo. And I'm like, I just remember putting mascara on. And. And so I meet her at the. At the cafe, and she has the news crew, and. And we're doing the news story, and. And I could just. I. I have this. It's. I don't know if it's intuition or. But I can feel him when he's close. I can feel him. And I literally, like, you can see on the news story that it was. I could just. I knew his car was there. And he. He pulled up, and so then it was. You couldn't really. At that point, you couldn't deny it anymore, and you couldn't sweep it under the rug. It was very blatant in Evident. It's on camera on the. Right. He had pulled up then at the side of the cafe, and I just remember her being like, what is he gonna do? And I was like, he could shoot us right now, right? And I'm like. I remember saying that. And she's like, call the cops. And so that happened. But what we didn't realize is that the court had an Error and the restraining order that I had erroneously expired on the day Dave died because of a clerical error. It's like, you can't make this up. It's like insanity camp. You literally in 2024 at the. You. You can't. You're do. A clerical error is like in between ongoing crazy case.
- [43:30]
A
Like, I mean, come on.
- [43:31]
B
Yeah. And. And that right there is exactly why I. I do harbor a lot of resentment towards, rightfully so, our court system. And, you know, unfortunately, the district attorney's office, they. They drastically dropped the ball a number of times with this. And. And I. I will never forget when I met with them. At one point, I go into the office to sit down, and I'm like, this is. You know how they have like, Women's Day and people. So I sit down and on top of the magazines is a small engine subscription plane magazine that they have, and I. I took a picture. I knew enough that I'm like, this is not by chance after all of these years that I've been stuck in this situation that there's a connection. Yeah. So again, he was. He was arrested then. He was. Then, you know, it was a series of arrests at that point. I don't know how many it was. They arrested him on an airstrip, and he agreed to let them search his phone or his camera. I forget which one. And he had, you know, photos of me, and they were like, when's the last time you were at the store? And I was with my daughter. And they're like, so that started the stalking charges, but again, took a lot to get there with. You know, the DA's office didn't want to do any form of jail time.
- [45:16]
A
Did he serve time? He did. Right?
- [45:18]
B
He ultimately did. After. After the FBI was involved, they. Then he did serve six months and after, like, robbing.
- [45:33]
A
Years.
- [45:34]
B
Yeah, years.
- [45:35]
A
Years.
- [45:36]
B
And. And I think that's what. Right. Because it can't be like an eye for an eye situation, but it also has to. Somehow. You always want us to have some sort of like, not retribution, but like, you. You literally have terrorized my family and me for so long and. Six. Six months. And that was solely. That wasn't because they wanted to. Right. So it was very difficult to. To. To not harbor resentment towards a lot of the agencies that were involved. And ultimately, I think that it wasn't until it made national news with Dan Abrams and Inside Edition and all of these, you know, news outlets picked it up and they. That, you know, the district attorney's office had put two of. Of their they are wonderful. But it, it took years for me to get to them. And that's so sad to say when you have, you know, I'm teaching my daughter how to stand up for herself, and I'm trying to be a good advocate, not just for myself, but for, you know, this plight in the, in the world going after something like this and, and locally, it was hard.
- [46:59]
A
Well, that's, you know, that's you, you kind of did the perfect segue for me. Because as you're talking, like, I'm thinking about, like, you know, you're fighting for yourself, clearly, and like, but you're also, as a parent, it's like, you're constantly trying to protect your kids and teach your kids, right? Like, I'm always like, Ethan used to roll his eyes at me because I'd be like, I treat everything like a teachable moment, right? Like, I was like, oh, in this situation. And like, but your whole life is like, you want her to, to feel safe. And you, you know, we want our kids to be able to feel safe and, and all of these things. And that must have been such a struggle to teach your daughter to be, you know, strong and brave and stand up for yourself and all of these things at the same time while you're going through this literal hell and people are not giving it the value that it deserves, right?
- [47:48]
B
Like, I think that for me, it was, okay, then I'll just have to get louder. I'll just have to go to the next step. And it was.
- [47:57]
A
Which is actually an excellent lesson, right? Like, Cause that's what you want your daughter to know, right? If they're not gonna listen, get louder. Like, I think that's great advice. In all honesty, like, I wanna ask this, and I don't know if we've talked about this before or not, but. So your husband passed, Dave transitioned on May 22, and then all of this stuff happens on May 25, and the stalker is dumb enough to show up while you're being interviewed on tv. Like, the witchy part of me is like, dave told you it wasn't going to last forever. And maybe he made that happen. And that makes zero sense, but it makes all the sense at the same
- [48:37]
B
time to me, a thousand percent. There is no. And to then have the restraining order, which I, I, I had no idea it expired. Like, and it was simply because another firing and hiring for it to have expired on the day that he passed. It was, and I knew it was like, he, he got to work right? As soon as he, he got, was Able to.
- [49:02]
A
He. He took care of business.
- [49:05]
B
Right.
- [49:05]
A
I think you take any one of these pieces that we've talked about today, right? Like, we talk about the, like, traumatic death of your father with a house fire. Like, you talk about your, your partner, your husband. You're like, I don't know, best friend, right? Going through this and all of the fight in that, and raising a daughter while that's happening and then this like, ridiculous story that is just this never ending thing. But it's. I don't even want to say ridiculous because it takes away the, like, what you were going through and how, you know, and this isn't. I find this an annoying question as I'm about to say it, because I hate when people say, like, oh, you're so strong. Like, what? Of course, like, we live the life we live and we do the best we can. But how do you, how did you continue through with all of that? Like, how. And maybe it was just focusing on one thing at a time, but, like, how did you get through it? Like, how do you heal from that? Like, how. Where are you now in this whole process?
- [50:06]
B
Like, so when my dad had passed, I was not well. I basically was catatonic because I couldn't function. And so I knew, and I was so blessed that Dave was the father that he was, because he didn't just take care of me, he took care of my daughter. And. And I think I knew that I had to honor him in a way that I couldn't. I didn't. I couldn't be that way when he passed. So I had to be strong and I had to, you know, be resilient. And. And again, it comes with a lot of tears and a lot of grief and. And I'm. I'm so blessed for my therapist because, you know, that is. I don't know if I would be here right now without some of the things that she has helped me through and being able to be an avenue that is not completely personal. And in that all my family and all my friends are wonderful and I rely on all of them in various ways. But it's completely different when you are able to have a relationship that, you know, I, I have that outlet. And I'm. I'm blessed that I, you know, I did seek out help when I, when I knew that I, I needed it. And so.
- [51:41]
A
Which is so important, right? It's so important because it's someone that you don't have to protect or worry about hurting their feelings or worry about. It's not about. It's Only about you.
- [51:54]
B
Right. And that's, you know, I, I often, and that's one of my things is I constantly am always like, in helper mode. Like, what can I do to help? Like, I, I'm. Because then it kind of deflects off of me having to like, you know, tend to my own garden in ways. And, and so I, I'm doing a better at, you know, kind of just reevaluating. And, and really, I, I, I did, I used to do a lot more, but now I value time differently. And, and I think that it takes horrific trauma and it takes working through that to, to be able to say no. Right? And, and, and I think that I, I just, I will not sacrifice a minute of my time with my daughter. So I, you know, everyone's like, why aren't you open later? Why aren't you open on the weekends? None of this matters. Like, until you lose so much, you, you realize that this is all like this weird matrix, right? And none of, doesn't. Money's just paper. Like, it doesn't matter.
- [53:09]
A
You are so speaking my language. Yeah.
- [53:11]
B
So I, you know, show up every day and I touch all of the people I can touch through, through work. But when it becomes time to be, you know, at home, I, I will not, I just won't, I won't give up a moment of my time with her.
- [53:29]
A
So, Cassie, I love that so much. And, and it's funny because there's such value, I think, and, and not value, like joy almost, of when you reach that point, right? Because it becomes easy. Like, there's a point in our lives where it's hard to say no and you want to please everybody. That, but, but when you can say no and you know, you know what your end goal is. Like, you know, for instance, I have a meeting tomorrow that I'm supposed to be at, but Ethan and his girlfriend are also coming home, so it's easy. I'm sorry I can't be there, you know, and, and I don't feel bad, and I don't make up a reason why. I just say I'm sorry, I can't. And it's funny. Like, you know, the show is obviously called the Place of Yes, but sometimes I talk about that. Like you get to the Place of Yes, because sometimes you have to protect that. So that means saying no to things. Sometimes it means really figuring out what is important. And I, I've said this about myself and, and I say it like, sometimes I hate that we get there, that the lessons, not lessons, but like, that we get to this place by having to endure such stuff, you know?
- [54:32]
B
Right.
- [54:33]
A
But I don't know if it's me trying to put like a, you know, something shiny at the end of something tragic, but, like, those are the lessons that come from some of, from loss and from grief and from trauma. Right. When you can figure out what's important.
- [54:48]
B
I've gotten really good at boundary setting, and I never, I never was right. And then I think that it's, it's funny because it is so true what you just said. I, I never thought that I would be in this place where I just. There are certain things I will not give up, you know, and, and every day is truly a blessing, and it's not just a saying. And it's. And I, and I feel that even through all of my grief and my trauma and working through it all, like, I still, I just know that this is a gift that we were given, and I, I don't take it lightly, and I don't take it for granted at all. You know, I think there are moments in my life where I did and now I just see. So I have such a different lens.
- [55:35]
A
It's like you see it so clearly now. Yeah.
- [55:37]
B
Right. Yeah.
- [55:38]
A
So if someone's listening right now, and this is my final, final question, but, like, if someone's listening and they're in the middle of, like, loss, trauma, fear, like, all of those things, what would you want them to hear? Like, what do you wish you heard? And it's kind of a loaded question.
- [55:53]
B
But, yeah, no, I think that, I think it is why I truly, I podcast. Like, I, I go, I, My headphones are on about 97% of my waking time because there is something with grief that podcasts and being able to be relatable. You're not alone. Right. And I, and when you're in the midst of it, you feel so isolated. You feel so incredibly alone. You don't. You feel like you're the only one struggling. And I think there is a beauty in being able to have platforms like this and have, and being able to listen. Right. I go down when hard stuff in my life has happened. I have to listen to other people that are also going through hard things because then you don't feel like you're an island of one. But again, I, I, I rely a lot on family, friends, and my therapist. That girl, she, she is amazing.
- [56:57]
A
I love that. I love it. No, but it's true, right? Like, I do. You said it exactly right. All of us in those moments go feel like we are the only ones going through whatever it is we're going through. And at the end of the day, there are people that are there. There's people that are also maybe not going through the exact same thing, but understand pain and fear and trauma and finding them can be so helpful. Cassie, I am so grateful for you. I started the show by saying, like, thank you for reaching out. I kind of want to end it by, I'm just grateful that you reached out. It means so much to me. And thank you for trusting me with your story like I am. I'm so grateful that you shared it with me and with the audience.
- [57:36]
B
Great. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having not just me on, but having, you know, a wide array of people that are all, we're all grieving something. And that truly is what connects us all, is that, you know, we're all grieving something. So, again, thank you so much.
- [57:53]
A
No, thank you. I can't think of better words to end with we're all grieving something. It's so true. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to A Place of Yes. I hope today's conversation brought you comfort, connection, maybe even a little bit of hope. If it did, I'd love for you to subscribe and share this episode with someone who might need it to see you next time on A Place of Yes.