← A Podcast of One's Own with Julia Gillard
A Podcast of One's Own with Julia Gillard
Akec Makur Chuot on making history as the first African woman in the AFLW
00:53:25
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- [00:00]
A
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B
Football is such a religion in this country. And for me as a young African woman coming, you know, I thought, oh, this could be a bridge for me to bridge into my new country. I can learn the language of Australia through this sport. This sport. And that was kind of my little cheat code into getting into my, you know, really learning about my Australian culture and about my new home. And I think that's one of the best things that I've done.
- [01:05]
C
Hello, and welcome back to A Podcast of One's Own. My guest today is an incredible young woman, only 33 years old. I'm introducing you to Beketch Makure Chuat, who was born in South Sudan and grew up in a refugee camp in Kenya before moving to Australia at the age of 11. Like many young Australians, Akech found community through sport and she went on to become the first African woman to be drafted into the Australian Football League women's competition. I really loved hearing about her start in life. Her recollections of the refugee camp, her first impressions of Australia and what it meant to her, and to end up being in the initial round of Australians selected to play in the newly formed Women's League. She's a role model, an advocate. She has an inspiring story and I'm sure you are going to enjoy this episode. Thank you so much for coming on A Podcast of One's Own. I'm just absolutely delighted to have you.
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B
Thank you so much for having me. It was not in my bingo card that I'll be speaking to the former Prime Minister of Australia this year, but we're here. So thank you so much for having me. Julia, it's amazing to be here with you.
- [02:36]
C
You never know when I'm going to come up in your bingo card. Now, we have so much to discuss and of course, we're going to discuss Aussie rules football. And I'm just blown away by the fact that you're only in your early 30s and you've already live an incredible life. But where I'd like to start is right at the very beginning. You were born in South Sudan into a large family before moving to Kenya when you were only a little, little baby. Can you tell us a bit about your start in life, about your family?
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B
Yeah, my start in life is it seems like it was a long, long time ago. It's only been 33 years. When I tell the kids I had
- [03:24]
C
a conversation with a woman, you know, it's only yesterday.
- [03:29]
B
Well, when I tell the kids how old I am, they look at me like I'm like a hundred. So. So sometimes it feels like it was a long, long time ago. But, yeah, my, my, my journey started back in Agoran, which is the place in Yarul that I was born in, in South Sudan. And then, yeah, when I was three months, we eventually ended up moving across to Kenya. And for us, you know, for a lot of people, you move across to places because, you know, you want to change your scenery. But it was actually because my mom had an eye infection, so we had to go to another country. But before that, she found out when she was a month pregnant of me that. That she was pregnant. And then my dad passed away. So my dad passed away. And then during the funeral, she found out that she was pregnant of me. And so, yeah, my, my early coming into this world was quite turbulence because for my mom, she was grieving her husband and then to then find out that she's pregnant as well. But it was somehow a blessing for her as well, just knowing that, you know, I would kind of carry his memory somehow of that time. And I think that's a bond that my mom and I have. So from birth, my name was going to be a ketch, because in the Sassanese culture, when you're the last child of that generation, when the father passes away, you are automatically given nama cage. So my other two mums, because my dad was married to seven wives.
- [05:25]
C
Okay, we just need to pause for a beat on that. Your dad had seven wives, of which your mum was obviously one. And you are the last child in that family with your mum. With your father tragically passing away before you were born, how many brothers and sisters do you. You have with your mom?
- [05:49]
B
So, Mom. So, so basically, when mom. When dad passed away, two of his other wives were pregnant at the same time too. So three. So now there's three pregnant ladies. And so I got two other sisters, Kola ketch, mark. So we all share the same name. And Mum. Mum, there's. There's eight kids, so there's eight of us from mum. And yeah, it's a very big, complicated family background. But what I like to Say is it's a blessing that I get to have 34 siblings that I get to call my brothers and sisters. So when I was playing footy, that's why I WORE the number 34. So, yeah, going back, you know, going back to the time I was born, you know, it was. It was a time of grief and it was the time of loss. But then mom also had this eye infection that kind of just came out of nowhere. So we eventually made it out to. To Kenya, and then one of the uncles suggested that we maybe just stay in Kenya and bring the rest of the kids from South Sudan to Kenya.
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C
And. And when you say you made it out to Kenya, that was your mum. Eight kids, including you, or it was all the other wives and the 34 kids in total.
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B
At first it was just Mum and myself and my auntie. We. We trekked. It was. It was a. Quite a. Quite a long journey. There was some walking involved. There was. Yeah, it was. It was not an easy journey. And then we. It was just the two of us, plus Auntie. And then a couple of months later, my uncle suggested that maybe Mum go back to South Sudan and bring the rest of the kids over. So we. So, yeah, so I was basically left in Kenya, and then she went back to South Sudan to get my. My other siblings. And then, yeah, we're all reunited in Kenya. And then we spent 11 years in a Kenyan refugee camp called Kakuma, and that was the. The place that we stayed until we moved to Australia in 2005.
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C
And what do you remember growing up in the refugee camp with your seven brothers and sisters and your mum? What are your memories of that time?
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B
For us, you know, the refugee camp was a place that was somehow offering new hope, and it was different. Like, we. Like, I could just be a kid and my mom was the kind of the adult that was dealing with the brunt of the responsibility. So all I remember living in a refugee camp is my single mom working so hard to provide for us. You know, my mom had, like, a restaurant that we would help at, and, you know, just watching her, you know, so much strength and so much resilience, just making it, you know, happen for these, like, us being so young. And then in the same time, she's also wanting, you know, to get us to overseas because the opportunities overseas were kind of opening up and families were starting to move to Canada, to the U.S. you know, to Australia. And so there was also that hope for my mum that she wanted that for us too. And, yeah, for us in the refugee Camp, we went to school. The UNHCR was provided schools, and so we had schools that we can go to. And, yeah, we were able to at least have some formal education in the refugee camps. And, yeah, you just make the friends that you make and the families. But what was really unique in our refugee camp is they found that it was easy to place people that were from the same, I guess, tribal groups and cultural speaking groups together just to kind of make it easy for themselves. So we ended up finding cousins that we didn't know that were also living in Kakuma as well. And so there was those bonds being created, and so it kind of just made the whole transition super easy.
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C
And for people who would be finding it may be hard to visualize this. I mean, can you give us a sense of how big the refugee camp is and whether you're living in tents or in sheltered accommodation? What does it look like? What does it feel like?
- [10:30]
B
I think to give the visual representation, we were the early arrivals of the refugees that were coming into Kakuma refugee camp. And so you were able to be given your own, like, land, and you can build your own mud houses. You know, if you were not able to afford to, you know, get bricks, you can then, you know, set up a 10. And the way that they set it up was they had zones. So there was, like, zone one, zone two, zone three, and then there was groups, and so people were basically put in groups. So group 21 is where we were where. Where I grew up. And a lot of us will be finding our own identity and our own pride. It's like saying, I'm from Seddon and I'm from Yarraville, or, you know, I grew up in Perth in Mirrabooka. And so that's kind of your identity. So for us, you know, group 21 was that that identity for us. And, yeah, you had to be home by 6 because there was no street lights. It is, yeah. It was very different. There was no tv. There was only one. There was one TV in the whole zone. And so the one TV that was in the group was for the men to basically watch the Premier League. So no one else can watch anything else. It was just for the boys to watch football. And so, yeah, that's kind of what I remembered. And obviously, it's different now. You know, the global crisis is a lot, and there's a lot of challenges that the people in the refugee camps are now facing. And so I call us the lucky ones. I really got, you know, got to really experience the Refugee camp in its full glory versus now, where there's a lot of crisis and people really suffering and struggling. So, yeah, it's quite different to what. To what it was 20 years ago.
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C
And the schooling that you had through, you referred to unhcr, so we should just spell that out. It's the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. That is the international organization under the umbrella of the UN that provides support to refugees. What was that schooling like?
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B
Yeah, it was. It was. It was. Honestly, it was awesome. We used to have what they call Roda. So Roda is basically equivalent of like a primary school. And so you go to primary school and these refugee kids that just really wanted to. To learn and to. To go to school. And then there was also secondary schools as well set up in the camp. So it was quite. It was quite a unique learning environment, but it was also very competitive because everyone wanted to be number one. And so there was that element of competitiveness in being at school. So that was really cool.
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C
And did the competitiveness flow over into playing sports? So you referred to the one TV which was showing the Premier League, the soccer that the men were watching. Were the kids having fierce games of soccer or some other sport?
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B
Yes, there was fierce competition, so every group had a team. And so it was very. It was basically giving. The people were kind of going off, the Arsenals and the Liverpools and the Manchester United equivalent. And my brothers were very heavily involved in the football. They were very good at soccer when we were growing up and. And unfortunately, girls were not allowed to play soccer. I wanted to play soccer and I wasn't allowed to play soccer. And we were always being pushed to go and play volleyball. And I was like, that's really boring. I don't want to play volleyball.
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C
Apologies to any volleyball player listening to their own. You wanted to play soccer.
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B
Very true. Each of that. No offense to the volleyball people. I actually later really started enjoying volleyball here in Australia. But when I was young, I just wanted to play football because everyone was playing football, the boys were playing football. And so, yeah, it was quite competitive, but I used to make every excuse under the face of the earth to basically be their equipment manager just to go and watch the football. So I would go to the football with my siblings just to go watch them play. So, yeah, Kakuma was, for me, you know, it was the start of my childhood. It was pretty much all I knew in, you know, when I was between, you know, three months to 11. So it's. Yeah, it's a. It's a very Special place. And I still have, you know, very fond memories. It wasn't easy, but it was all that we knew. We didn't know anything else, so you just kind of have to get on with it.
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C
And your mum ultimately successfully applied for a humanitarian visa entry into Australia with, with you and your siblings. So can you tell me about that transition? Long way from living in a refugee camp in Kenya to migrating to Australia. Long way in every sense. The, the distance is long. The cultural shift is a big one. Can you talk to me about that period of your life when you knew you were coming to Australia and then you came here?
- [15:56]
B
Yeah, that, that period was, was quite exciting. It was a long one because for, you know, I think, I think the, the refugee, the, the transition between living in a refugee camp and, you know, coming to Australia hasn't really been documented in a way that it tells the bigger, the big picture. And I think that's. This is where we can then bridge that gap to really get people to understand that it is a really, really bloody long time. And for our family, it took nine years. And so every time I do, you know, public speaking gigs or go and speak to somebody, somebody asked me about it, like nine years. And some people it was longer. Some people it was, you know, 20 years of going through the process and then being denied and being rejected.
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C
So nine years from when your mother first applied or nine years from when she first applied and then did you get accepted and still have to wait several years? Is that how it played out?
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B
Yeah, so it was nine years from the moment where she applied. And so you eventually submit the process and it has to be. Somebody has to kind of pre. Sponsor the initiate that sponsorship. And it was our uncle who lived next door to us who had come to Australia earlier on. And so the, the whole process was kind of like initiated with them at first, and then that didn't really go through and so it was, it was apply. And then you go through the interviews and you go through the inductions and you go through the medical checks and you go through all of that and then you just gotta wait. And it was every time you had to go back to Nairobi, the capital city. So it was like living in a really far away country town and then having to come into the city to get. Do all the interviews, do all the medical checks, and then you had to go back to basically Kakuma. And that was pretty much what life was for us for a very long time. And then we waited and waited and waited. And then, yeah, finally we were excited Accepted, which was really, really exciting. And then it just meant that now we had to get somebody to sponsor the, you know, the. The fee to make sure that we can come here and, yeah, survive. So there was, you know, there was a bit. We were initially coming to Melbourne, but then because there was a few of us in the. In the visa, our uncle couldn't afford to get all of us on. On what? On the money that he had, the sponsorship money that he had. So another uncle in Perth basically stepped in, and then they could. They could basically raise some of their money alongside the. The church and a few organizations that collaborated over there. And Perth became our. Our new home. And, yeah, the whole process was just insane. Like, it was. It was. It was bittersweet because, you know, you made friends in, you know, families and people that you've pretty much lived with for 10 years plus, and now you're having to leave them behind in the refugee camp and in Nairobi. And so that was. That was really sad. And I wasn't really sure whether you can see them again. I was only young, so I didn't really, really understand what was going on, but I was just happy for my mom. Australia was just providing a different opportunity, a new opportunity for us to come and get an education and to kind of relieve some pressure from her. So that was really, really exciting for us.
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C
And so you end up in Perth. What were your first impressions? So I'm presuming you flew from Nairobi to Perth, and. And then you're there. What did it feel like when you were first on the ground in this place you must have talked about for so long before you actually got there?
- [20:07]
B
It was cool. We. We actually went through. We went from Nairobi Jama Kenyatta airport to Dubai. And so that was a glitz and glamour of its own. Like, we've never been at an airport. Like, we've never flown before. So that was our first. That was a pretty big step to go straight on an international flight for the first time to end up in Dubai. And it was like this big airport. I just couldn't believe. I was like. I was. I was like. To my mom, I was like, it looks like it's gold. And. And I don't know why. I remember just vividly my mom putting this red and blue and, like, beige puffer jacket on me. Like, she. She dressed us up like we were going to Antarctica. I don't know who told her it's so cold over here. And my mom dressed us up like we were going to some. Like, some. Some snow. I Will never forget that puffer jacket. I think I will have to find a similar puffer jacket when we arrived and then, yeah, went through Dubai when. Then we arrived to Perth and it was at night time and it was just. It was just. It was just beautiful. I was just like, we've arrived at our final destination. And we were really lucky because we got placed with the Sassanese family. So they were able to kind of help us kind of, you know, transition quickly into the norm. Everything was different. Waking up in the morning, the breakfast was different. They were trying to feed us Vegemites and Nutellas and I just didn't understand what was going on. But really what I loved was the fact that, you know, can watch Home and Away. We were actually watching Home and Away and Neighbors in Kenya. So that was really exciting. When I found out that this is an Australian show, it was easier for us as kids because Mum was kind of holding our hands and taking us through everything. She was the one that was really having to like, learn how to use the bank system she had to use, you know, learn how to do everything. And so, yeah, kudos to her. She's. She's incredible, my mom. Like, she really. Yeah, she's awesome.
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C
And then you would have gone straight into secondary school, I'm assuming, is that. Yeah. How did you find that?
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B
Yeah, we, again, we. I think we really had it, you know, we just had a really good system set up for us. We went to our high school called Aramore Catholic College, and instead of just being thrown into the deep end of the mainstream learning, we got put into iec. So it was like English as an additional center, local English as a second language center. And so this center was really set up just to help newly arrived migrants kind of like go into transition into the normal mainstream classrooms a bit easier. And so I was there for about six months. I was able to then start year eight and the first day I had new mates and. And I already had some friends from the IEC because we kind of did that six months together. So it was a very smooth transition into high school. And yeah, we just got put in such a. An amazing high school with really supportive teachers. I think my teachers made my. My early years in Australia. I'm still really good friends with a lot of my high school teachers just because they were just, they were just so. They just believed in us, not just only as humans, but also as people that can go out into the world and contribute. So I'll never forget all the amazing teachers that really contributed to our I guess our success. So yeah, and I'm going to have
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C
to ask, aren't I, when did you encounter Australian Rules football?
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B
I actually encountered Australian Rules football a bit like at school. And when I came here it was around the time where, you know, in Perth you have only two teams. You have the West Coast Eagles or the Fremantle Dockers. And so I just had a few questions. I was like, okay, who has won premiership? And they said it was the West Coast Eagles. And I said, oh, perfect. Of course it's no brainer. What about Fremantle? They haven't won a premiership. Also, I wasn't really a big fan of the purple color. And here I am at 12 years old sizing up which, which team had good looking men. And I was like, I'm 12, like, what's your business like doing this right now? But I just automatically started, I chose a team, I started going for the West Coast Eagles and they were having a really good run that year. So they made the grand final, lost to Sydney by a point. And then the year after 2006, they made the grand final and then they won. And I just was so involved as a fan. I just really loved watching the game. But I wasn't really convinced about playing yet. And it wasn't until I played in a Lightning Carnival in year year 10 and I really just, I loved it. But I still was a, I was a big soccer fanatic. Like I was still a big, I came from the refugee camp, a big football. Like I loved, I loved my soccer. And so that was kind of what was ringing. I wanted to be, you know, going on and play for the Matildas one day and, and then, yeah, I started excelling in soccer. I was really good at soccer and I did that until I was about 18. And then the soccer opportunities kind of dried up so I made the crazy switch and switched over and went and started playing AFL. I was turning 19 that year, so. And then I played for. It was like a multicultural AFL team called the Edmond Rice Center Lions, which was the center I was working at. And I played a season there with the boys, so. And I captained the boys. Then I was like, you know what, this is not a bad game. I really, really enjoy this playing part of it. So yeah, that really convinced me. And then I started playing and yeah, the rest was just history.
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C
And tell us a bit about that history because you then went on to have your professional football career with the emerging women's football league. So sort of you and your skill level and there being a game for women to Play were coming together. Can you talk to us about how that all happened?
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B
Yeah, I think for me I got really lucky. I joined the game at a, at a really interesting time. You know, there were, I joined and then I, I got picked for the state team. I didn't even know what a state team was. Went up to Cairns and like I had people in my team. I had, you know, Kirby Bentley, I had Cara Antonio, I had, you know, Chelsea Randle. Like, like the superstars of AFLW right now were my teammates. Like Kirby Bentley was my, my roommate and I was like, I don't know what's going on. And then we get up to the Casali Stadium and I am, you know, rocking against Astor o' Connor who's playing for Team Victoria and Daisy Pierce is on Team Victoria Victoria. And I'm like, I'm like, this is a lot happening. It was just, I was, it was a really crazy introduction into football that, that year to go and play at state. And then the AFL introduced the exhibition series and then I knew the league was going to be coming up in 2020 and then they came up with this great idea that it was being fast forward and they're going to launch it in 2017. And I remember thinking going, oh, this is great. This is great for the women that are going to be, you know, picked and play this, this is amazing. I think it's been coming for a long time. And then, yeah, my coach was like, did you nominate? And I was like, nominate for what? And she's like, nominate for the draft. And I was like, Nicole, what are you talking about? You have to nominate. And so that time it was a state base, so you can only get drafted to the state that you nominated. And this is where, full circle moment. I, you know, living in Perth, I'm still young, I didn't want to really move and leave my mum. And so I basically had to nominate for wa. And the only WA team that was coming up was the Fremantle Dockers. They're the only one that got the license. And here I'm sitting there going, this, this West Coast Eagles fan is going, oh, I don't, I don't know if I want to play for Fremantle. But also it would be pretty cool. But also it's not guaranteed. Like you're not gonna just get drafted. Like it's hard work. So my coach and I sat down, we nominated for this for the state based one. And then, yeah, draft day came and I was left home with my little niece Sharifa. And I was just like, what Now. And I was like, sharifa, you're gonna have to get up. Like, we're gonna have to watch this draft together. And so I turned up my laptop and basically watched it. And then, yeah, the Freeman to dockies had the last pick and it was pick 139. And I remembered going, if I don't get picked in this round and in this number, I've obviously not been picked up. So, yeah, they announced this name. I don't know who was the name. And yeah, I just was like, remember going, like, just really sad. And then I look on the screen and it's me. And I was like, what is going on here? And I look again and it's my name. And I was like, oh, did I just get drafted? And the reason why I missed it is because the man just butchered my name. Like, he absolutely got my name so wrong. So I missed my name being called dad. But I saw my picture. I didn't really understand it at the time, how big of a moment that was going to be. I had people calling me and like, community, you know, because it wasn't just. It wasn't just playing sports. It was like. It was a. It was a collection from when I was playing soccer to. From not being allowed to play soccer because I was a girl to then, you know, switching codes and going to play a different sports and, you know, going and becoming a professional player where I was, like, going to be. To be getting paid. And then they were like, oh, you're the first African woman to be drafted in the ifl. And I was like, whoa. I really didn't understand, like, just that what that moment was. And it's like you becoming the first female Prime Minister of this country, you don't really know what you're setting up like, for us. We were watching, you know, people like you who were making things happen. And then seven years later, we became those people in the same shoes now. And so, yeah, it was quite. It was quite remarkable. It was really. It was. It was. It was cool. It was different, but it was cool. And it was a big responsibility too. But it's. It's one that I love.
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C
And I think we should just. Mark, particularly for those listeners who are perhaps not Aussie football fanatics or from overseas, that, you know, Australian Rules Football is the sort of dominant football code in Australia. The men's game has been going for forever. It is, you know, prestige, national competition. And it was a big fight conducted by a number of women, including our current Governor General, Sam Mostyn, when she was a commissioner of the Australian Football League. To say there must be a women's competition, and that wasn't easily achieved. But you were in the first round of that competition ever playing. It started with eight teams. So it was a moment in history where for the first time women were professionally playing Australian Rules football. And you are the first woman of African heritage to have ever played the game in that professional sense. So a big, a big moment in Australian history. A big role modeling responsibility, because I'm sure you were conscious that there were lots of girls in particular that were looking at this new women's competition and lots of girls particularly looking at you. And so you went on to play professionally for a number of teams and to have a very successful career. You spent time at Fremantle, at Hawthorne, at Richmond. Can you give a sense of how you grew in that period as a person and how you thought the women's competition grew as well from its first start?
- [33:23]
B
From the first start, I did meet. I've met the Governor General, Honorable Sam, and. And it's pioneers like her, like yourselves, that, you know, made it possible for us to even dream. I think people really don't understand. There has to be somebody in front making, you know, being visible, being seen to be able to say that if you can do it, I can do it too. And I think for the 100, I think there's about 150 of us that got drafted that year and we knew what, what, what a big responsibility it was. We're not doing it for the money. I think after that first year, we got paid like $4,000. Like, our base salary was like 8,8k for that year. So it knew it wasn't about, you know, becoming an overnight millionaire. It was about representation. It was about, you know, ensuring that the next generation can, you know, we can pass the baton to them and they can, you know, go on and, you know, have careers that, you know, last as long as the, you know, the male careers that are lasting as well, and they can go on and express themselves. And, you know, it's not just only good for communities. Not just only good, but it's, you know, it's an achievement, something that you achieve, something that you worked very hard. You've had to be disciplined and sacrificed. And I think that's what we understand. And so to see the. How the league has grown, you know, we went from, you know, eight teams, like, we could all, like, name each other in the teams, to now where there's literally, you know, there's 18 IFL clubs and there's 18 AFLW teams and it's, it's awesome. And I'm so glad that there was that fight for equality to make sure that there was an opportunity for women to also call it a professional environment. And so I look back from when we were Fremantle to you know, ending my career at Hawthorne, it. Sometimes I pinch myself and you know, just telling people that I played for three AFL clubs, like, people are like, that's, that's crazy. Like, like these are clubs that people cry about. These are like, people die over these clubs. They're like such a history and there's such a, like, it's like a religion. Football is such a religion in this country. And for me as a young African woman coming, you know, you know, I thought, oh, this could be a bridge for me to be. Bridge into my new country. I can learn the language of Australia through this sport. This sport. And that was kind of my little cheat code into getting into my, you know, really learning about my Australian culture and about my new home. And I think that's one of the best things that I've done now that I've lived in this country for the last 20 years and also getting my family involved in the many teams that I played. So we were all fanatics of west coast. And when it was time to play for Fremantle, my first game, we played here in Melbourne. And so the first, the second game was in Perth and I told the family, I was like, yeah, we're playing at 3:15. I really didn't expect much. I just was like, I knew they were going to come down. The club was like, how many tickets you want? I was like, they're 50. And like, I had so many people come in, they're like, okay, we can give you 50 tickets. So I had all these tickets and then I got to find my family all kitted in Fremantle gear. And I just, just remember going, oh, this is what this game does. It really brings families together. And that was for me, it was like, oh, this is a place where I belong. This is a place where, you know, I can find a new identity. I can find a place of self expression. And I was just awesome bringing my family along for that journey. And they did the same. You know, when I was playing at Richmond, they all came in their Tigers gears. When I was playing at Hawthorne, they all came in the Hawthorne gear. So it was, it was phenomenal. And you know, I've been retired now for nearly four seasons and just seeing how the league, it's just gone strength to strength you know, the players are being paid, you know, more. It's now no longer just like a semi professional environment. Like where we started, we started from. I had a full time job and I'll finish my full time job and sometimes my boss would be like, just go home, go and have a nap before you go to training to now where, you know, the players can actually focus for 12 months of the year on just being a professional athlete. So we've really come a long way and it's been, it's been such a privilege to watch it, you know, grow and I know it's going to just keep evolving, but it's all about investment and it's all about, you know, people believing that this is important and this is something that changes, you know, people's lives. It's not just, oh yeah, it's, you know, it's. Women are playing sports. Women's sports is good for the economical development of our country. You know, it's, it's so good for so many reasons. And so it's, yeah, it's, you can see what the Matildas have done. You know, the netball. I feel like netball in Australia has really led the way for many years. And then AFLW came and it just kind of like cemented that, yeah, there's a space and there's a place for women to be professional athletes. And then the Matildas have really just carried that torch where they've just become household name. So, yeah, it's been good, it's been good to see the overall growth of women's sports, not just globally but here in Australia. And yeah, it's, it's good to be a part of that cohort.
- [39:36]
C
And for you personally, now post your professional playing career, what is life like?
- [39:42]
B
Oh, life is, life is really busy. I'm, I'm really loving, really loving having my time back, like where I don't have to have the club dictating my, my, you know, you have to be at the club on a Saturday morning at 6am for 6am session. So that's been quite great. But I think for me now, life after sports is, it's been really cool. I've been able to. I went back to uni, I finished uni in December, so that was really amazing. You know, my mom brought us over because of education and it was really cool to go back to uni. I watched my siblings, my older brother did a engineering degree where he graduated with megatronic engineering degree. And then I watch my sister who is actually a politician. So my, my older sister is a member of Parliament. So she became the first African woman to be elected in WA Parliament for the Labour Party. So yeah, it's, it's, it's been awesome just, you know, watching what they've, you know, what they're contributing to the community and also watching them. So I wanted to follow in their footsteps as well in my own way. So, yeah, life after football now is really just, you know, a lot of my advocacy stuff that I do, which I really love. I've just jumped on board as a plan International Australia ambassador and also an ambassador with Australia for UNHCR and also helping Hoops, which is a charity organization here in Melbourne that do a lot of incredible stuff with basketball in the community. So I do a bit stuff with those guys. And then, yeah, just I pitched for a documentary last year with Vic Screen, the AFL and Melbourne Film Festival and we sadly got rejected last year and then this year they came back and they said, okay, why don't you pitch that documentary again? So I ended up repitching it and we ended up getting picked. So I'm currently in the process of producing and directing. We're just in pre production currently. So in the documentary it's called Kura and Kura is simply ball sports. And when we were growing up our parents would be like, get where you go. And I'm like, I'm going to play Kura and I'm going, Kura is basically going to play football, I'm going to play basketball. So it's called Kura. And I really wanted to tell the, just the phenomenal story of the African Australians that are in the AFL at the moment and how they, you know, they're finding a sense of home, a sense of belonging and a sense of connection with our, with our new country. And I really wanted to, yeah, tell that story in a way to celebrate and bring, you know, just, just celebrate that we've been able to contribute to this incredible game of Australia. So that will be airing in August at the Melbourne Film Festival. So yeah, so life is so different at the moment, is a bunch of different avenues and a bunch of different opportunities and I've never been the one to count myself out. I was like, look, I don't know anything about producing and directing a movie or a documentary for that, but I will absolutely learn. And I got an amazing friend, Meg Duncan, who I worked with, who is co producing it and directing it with me. So yeah, she's holding a lot of my hand at the moment. But we, we are super excited to tell the story of the African Australian. So, yeah, life after 40 is quite exciting. It's. It's different. It's something different every day. I'm doing a bit of modeling, doing a bit of content creating, and it's kind of everything and anything, really. Yeah, nobody really knows what my job description is this day.
- [43:47]
C
It sounds exciting and I'm going to look forward to seeing the documentary. I mean, I think across our discussion, when you look at politics right around the world, a lot of politics is turning on skepticism about immigration. And I think your story and your family's story is a beautiful reminder of the benefits and strengths that immigration can bring a nation. And your family has certainly done that. And one thing too, unfortunately we're seeing around the world is skepticism about foreign aid or about giving money to charities that work overseas. So I did want to talk to you about the campaign that you were part of for World Vision, because I think it really starkly tells us the difference that an opportunity could make in that you talked about one of your half sisters in South Sudan, Mary. You first met her when you went on a trip back to south Sudan in 2013. She was 10 years old and just five years later she was made to marry. So at the age of 15. So your life obviously has been very substantially different from Mary's life. But can you talk to her? Can you talk to us about how uncovering Mary's story made you feel?
- [45:19]
B
Yeah, I think. I think sometimes what people don't understand is that it's, you know, there is so many. There's so many layers to what makes us who we are. And, you know, for us, we got to be lucky to be the lucky ones to have the opportunities that we have now in Australia. And a lot of those opportunities would not have been possible without the generous donations of even the Aussies that are living now that donated to us 20 years ago when we're living in. In those refugee camps. And so I don't, for one, discount they're amazing. And just how generous our community is and how good just everyday Australian people are. And then there's also this layer of really just truth telling of what people are going through in just not only in South Sudan, but also in refugee camps. And a lot of the time is layered around survival. And for me, it was really important to speak up and really advocate on early marriage and child marriage because it's something that affected my family and something that affected. And it's not just only my family affects a lot of families worldwide. And it was, it was in hope that it doesn't people understand just the severity of it and that we all take it serious so that it's not just my job to have to talk about the fact that my little sister was married off. You know, I look at myself now at 33 years of age and the opportunities that I've been able to be, you know, afforded and the opportunities that I've had to work very hard for. And like, I, like I am, I'm like, I'm only just now starting to think about marriage and potentially kids and you know, and those things you think about when you have a partner. I've got an amazing partner now. And those are things that we can now start to talk about and think about and we can plan for, let alone being a 15 year old child being, you know, you have your whole world in front of you and it's just taken away because of circumstances and culture and all these inequalities that are happening around the world. And so that's why it was really important. And I think this is why, you know, being a part of that A Thousand Girls campaign, there were so many similar stories of young girls in Nepal and all around the world of just young girls, their lives, their education just being taken away from them at such a young age. And so this is why I love the work that I do now and the fact that I'm able to lend my voice across the different organizations. And in particular, the reason I really joined PLAN this year is because I really just love the work that they do with girls. And being a girls only organization, I felt that was really important for me to, I guess, try to input and try to help them raise the funds that are needed because it is so crucial. Girls education is lacking. And I know in South Sudan there are so many young girls that are just not able to have the education that they need. And so that's why it's important for me to advocate for those young girls in the refugee camps and in South Sudan and so that the same story does never happen. So another young girl who is my sister's age can have a whole childhood where they go to school and can dream to one day become the prime minister, you know, the first female prime minister or the first, first African woman to play in the afl. Like I want that for my, you know, the future leaders of our world, the future doctors and the future lawyers. And so, yeah, that's why I love the job that I do now. And that's why it was important for me to speak up and really just make sure people Understand that it happens to even people like me. And, yeah, beautifully said.
- [49:29]
C
Thank you. And we'll definitely, in the show notes, make sure we link through to plans so people can see the remarks. Remarkable work that they do. Now you're only 33, long life ahead to live, and I'd like you to reflect on that life against this Virginia Woolf quote. Of course, we've named this podcast for Virginia Woolf, and we always end with a Virginia Woolf quote. So my quote for you is a self that goes on changing is a self that goes on living. I think you've already proved that with so much more to come. Is that how you feel about it?
- [50:09]
B
It's. Yeah, when I saw. Yeah, when I saw the podcast name and even you just speaking that is, you know, there's so many layers of our humanity that we have to uncover every single year, every single day. And for me, the thing that really speaks about that is contribution, is that we all have things that we can definitely contribute to. Not just only people, but, you know, our surroundings, our environment. And, you know, I am hoping that, you know, continuously telling the stories of refugees that now live and call this country in a home can resonate with other, you know, wider Australian, to be able to continue to welcome us the same way we were welcomed 20 years ago. And so, yeah, I think it's. It's about contribution and about, you know, the. You don't want to just be remembered for what you did yesterday. You want to be remembered for, you know, what you've done in with your neighbors at home. And for you, I think what I remember the most is, you know, the path that you paved for women that didn't see themselves in Parliament. And people like my sister get to, you know, have a voice in Parliament, people like myself get to have a voice in our communities. And other women that were like, wow, I can contribute to that. So that's what. That's what that quote reminds me that you, even though it's been a long time, you are still. When I was told that I was going to be in a podcast with you, I couldn't believe it. I was like, I didn't have this this year that a former prime minister of this country would be wanting to sit down with me, a female at first, to talk about my career and my life and what. What's next for me. So I thank you for your contribution to me, to all of us, and to Australia and to the world and for inspiring us. So thank you.
- [52:17]
C
Thank you. That is so very kind of you. And thank you for a terrific conversation. I very much enjoyed it.
- [52:25]
B
Thank you so much.
- [52:29]
D
A Podcast of One's Own is created by the Global Institute for Women's Leadership at the Australian National University, Canberra, with support from our sister institute at King's College, London. Earnings from the podcast go back into funding for the Institute, which was founded by our host, Julia Gillard, and brings together rigorous research, practice and advocacy as a powerful force to advance gender equality and promote fair and equal access to leadership. Research and production for this podcast is by Becca Shepherd, Alice Higgins and Alina Ecot, with editing by Liz Kean from Headline Productions. If you have feedback or ideas, please email us@giwlnu.eduau. to stay up to date with the Institute's work, go to giwl.anu.edu au and sign up to our updates or follow us on social media Oolanu. You can also find A Podcast of One's Own on Instagram. The team at A Podcast of One's Zone acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respect to their elders, past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples listening today. Thanks for listening and we hope you'll join us next time.
- [54:01]
A
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