A Podcast of One's Own with Julia Gillard

Episode: International Women's Day with Eluned Morgan, the first woman to lead Wales
Release Date: March 5, 2025

Episode Overview

In this special International Women’s Day episode, Julia Gillard sits down with Eluned Morgan, the newly appointed and first-ever female First Minister of Wales. Taped in Cardiff, their conversation explores Morgan’s upbringing on Europe’s largest council estate, her decades-long political journey, the evolution of Welsh identity, her deep commitment to both gender equality and public service, and the enduring challenges and hopes for women’s leadership—both in the UK and globally.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Welsh Identity, History, and Transition

• Setting the Scene:
  • Wales' evolution from a coal-mining powerhouse to a high-tech, vibrant country with a rich culture of sports, music, and its own language. (02:03)
  • Significant increase in Welsh tourism and preservation of national parks. (03:14)
• Role of Language:
  • Eluned’s education entirely through Welsh, the growing revival of the language, and her pride in its renewed popularity:

    “When I was about five, six years old... parents used to line the streets from the community because they didn’t want a Welsh language school in their area. They used to throw stones at the bus, at little six-year-olds on the bus... Today there are about 20 Welsh language schools in the city. The growth has been quite remarkable.” (28:40)

2. Understanding Welsh Politics and Leadership

• What is a First Minister?
  • Eluned demystifies her role, likening it to a state Premier in Australia, with responsibility for key public services like health, education, and transport. (03:48)
• Labour’s Legacy and Challenges of Leadership:
  • The dominance and longevity of the Welsh Labour Party in Wales (“the most successful political party in the world—about 102 years…”). (05:01)
  • Reflecting on the rollercoaster of political leadership amid global turbulence:

    “It's obviously a very unsettling time for the planet... we have domestic challenges as well.” (05:01)

3. Personal Upbringing and Motivation

• Growing Up on a Council Estate:
  • Eluned’s parents as community leaders—her father as a vicar and council leader, her mother as a councillor.
  • The open-door policy at home and exposure to a wide cross-section of need in the community profoundly shaped her sense of public service:

    “I think my dad was the only kind of professional person, as a vicar, who actually lived on the estate. So the teachers would come in during the day, but they'd all go home in the evening... We all had to muck in as the kids in the family...” (06:59)

4. Women as Community Anchors and Gendered Barriers

• Informal vs Formal Leadership:
  • Observation that “the people who held that community together were all the women,” yet very few in formal positions of power. (09:47)
• Becoming a Trailblazer:
  • At 27, Eluned became just the fifth woman in Wales’ history to be elected, feeling the intense “extra burden” of not wanting to let women—and younger women—down:

    “I had the sense that I didn’t want to let women down… I got this sense that people were willing me to fail. I don’t know if that was true, but... I could not fail.” (11:13)

5. Elected Roles: From Europe to Wales

• European Parliament and House of Lords:
  • Navigating skepticism due to youth and gender, confronting party members about discrimination:

    “I confronted them and said, you can judge me on anything you want today, but if you judge me on the fact that I’m a woman or that I’m young, you shouldn’t be sitting in this room—it doesn’t comply with our values. And I think that kind of jolted people…” (14:10)

• Choosing Welsh Parliament Over Lifetime Peerage:
  • Deep commitment to devolution and hands-on impact in Wales saw her leave the House of Lords to contest the Welsh Parliament in 2016. (17:55)

6. Resilience, Public Scrutiny, and Gendered Attacks

• COVID Leadership:
  • Led through Delta and Omicron waves; drew upon early-career resilience:

    “If I hadn’t had that gruelling time at 27... it meant that I could get through anything like that... It was a very difficult and trying time. Not for us so much as the people on the front line.” (19:27)

• Coping with Social Media:
  • The toxicity of online abuse, especially against women:

    “Generally. I don't look at it. I just don't look at it... If everything you do is being questioned and second guessed, that's a really tough position. As you know, if you're a leader, you have to make a call... I post things on social media, but I don’t read it.” (21:50)

7. Work-Life Balance and Family

• Marriage to a GP and Anglican priest, raising children while traveling for work, and the importance of extended family support. (24:29)
• Ongoing responsibility as carer for her mother with Alzheimer’s, highlighting uneven gender expectations around caregiving. (36:26)

8. Faith and Political Values

• Christian faith as a core motivator for public service—centered on “love your neighbor” and broad tolerance.

  “The values that I see in Christianity are one of love your neighbor... If you take that as your basis, then the other things should follow. The women around you are your neighbors.” (26:38)

9. International Women’s Day, Progress, and Remaining Battles

• Beyond Celebration:
  • Wales’ trailblazing record: over half the cabinet are women, achieved through determined use of mechanisms—quotas—for selection. (31:10)
  • Need for vigilance against backlash and complacency, especially regarding objectification of women and online misogyny:

    “It really concerns me, the objectification of women, particularly amongst young lads... the accessibility to pornography... that’s—we’re going backwards there.” (33:47)

• Recruiting Men to the Cause:
  • “What’s important is not just to celebrate women, but to recruit men to our cause, get men to take on the misogynists, for them to confront it and to speak up.” (33:47)
• Hope for the Next Generation:
  • The unyielding attitude of younger women, including her daughter:

    “This next generation are not prepared to compromise, and that gives me great hope.” (39:49)

10. Memorable Quotes and Reflections

• On failure and responsibility:

  “You know, I was the fifth woman in the history of Wales to be elected. So the world has changed a lot. But at the time, it was a bit of a political earthquake... I thought, I can't fail at this, because it's not really about me, about women, it's about young women.” (11:13)

• On gendered leadership pathways:

  “When we haven’t used a mechanism to select people, even today, it reverts back to selecting men... the evidence suggests that if you don’t, it’ll just default. Even today, 2025, quite shocking.” (31:10)

• On hope for young women:

  “My daughter, who’s utterly intolerant of any kind of gender bias, who’s utterly intolerant of any discrimination, in a way that we had to put up with…” (39:49)

Notable Timestamps

| Timestamp | Key Segment | |---------------|----------------------------------------------| | 02:03 | Wales: Past, Present, National Identity | | 03:48 | Explaining the First Minister’s Role | | 06:59 | Childhood, Family Values on Council Estate | | 09:47 | Women’s Informal Community Leadership | | 11:13 | Pressure and Responsibility as a Young Woman | | 14:10 | European Parliament & House of Lords | | 17:55 | Returning to Welsh Parliament | | 19:27 | Health Minister during COVID | | 21:50 | Social Media, Misogyny, Political Resilience | | 24:29 | Work-Life Balance and Childcare | | 26:38 | Christianity, Values, and Public Service | | 28:40 | Revival of Welsh Language | | 31:10 | Mechanisms for Women’s Political Progress | | 33:47 | Objectification, Backlash, Role of Men | | 36:26 | Caregiving and Women’s Domestic Burden | | 39:49 | Intergenerational Change and Hope |

Tone & Atmosphere

Warm, conversational, and thoughtful. Julia Gillard and Eluned Morgan’s dialogue blends candid reflection, humor (nods to popular Welsh TV, “Gavin and Stacey” at 36:21), and honest confrontation of difficult subjects. Throughout, both showcase hopefulness tempered with realism, and clear-eyed solidarity across generations, highlighting the continued need for both vigilance and celebration for women.

Conclusion

In this insightful and wide-ranging conversation, Julia Gillard and Eluned Morgan chart advances for women in Wales while underscoring the persistent need to challenge systemic and cultural barriers. Morgan’s lived experience—grounded in working-class Wales, interwoven with public and personal service, and marked by trailblazing leadership—offers both inspiration and pragmatic lessons for aspiring women leaders everywhere. The episode closes with shared optimism for the younger generation’s commitment to gender justice, and a renewed call for both women and men to champion the unfinished business of equality.

Memorable closing exchange:

Julia Gillard (40:29): “Thank you for everything you’re doing here in Wales and for women. And I know there’s an election next year, so all power to your arm... Thank you for joining me on A Podcast of One’s Own—or should I be saying diolch, diolch?”
Eluned Morgan: “Thank you.”