Podcast Summary

A Podcast of One’s Own with Julia Gillard

Episode: Kelly T. Clements on the global refugee and foreign aid crisis
Date: October 15, 2025
Guest: Kelly T. Clements, Deputy High Commissioner, UNHCR

Episode Overview

Julia Gillard welcomes Kelly T. Clements to discuss the escalating global refugee crisis, the critical collapse in humanitarian and development aid, and the profound impact of these challenges—especially on women and girls. Drawing upon Clements’ extensive experience as a humanitarian leader, the episode explores her early influences, career-defining fieldwork, and the stubborn realities confronting international aid today. Through both high-level analysis and poignant human stories, the conversation highlights the importance of personal action and shared human connection amidst daunting global issues.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Kelly’s Early Life and Influences

• Background and Upbringing ([03:25]–[04:52])

  • Grew up in Old Town, Maine, in a university-focused, book-filled household.
  • Exposure to international ideas and academic debates sparked her interest in the wider world.

    “It was probably those conversations that piqued my interest in terms of what life was like beyond the state of Maine.” — Kelly T. Clements [04:40]

• Early Awareness of Gender Dynamics ([05:04]–[06:13])

  • Recognized gender expectations through playground experiences, leading to an early sense of gender-based inequality.
  • Memorable childhood story: defied a boy who tried to exclude her from kickball, demonstrating her determination from a young age.

First Encounters With Refugee Work

• Immersion in Cox’s Bazar, Bangladesh ([07:35]–[11:07])

  • Entry into UNHCR work post-graduate school, unprepared for the realities of refugee crisis settings.
  • Worked as a “protection officer,” dialoguing directly with women and families, often amid crisis and danger.
  • Emphasized the immense responsibility of advocating for refugees’ needs with local authorities and partners.

    “People who have basically picked up, maybe they had their house burned down, maybe their sons or fathers were forced into labor... Some of the stories were really quite horrific, including what had happened to women in terms of sexual assault.” — Kelly T. Clements [09:45]

• Life in Refugee Camps ([11:07]–[13:51])

  • Vivid descriptions: dense, chaotic settings; families and children everywhere; improvised markets; local communities as first responders.
  • Drew contrasts between the initial immediacy of emergency response and the protracted, permanent nature of many refugee situations.

The Emotional Reality of Humanitarian Work

• Personal Impacts and ‘Doing What You Can’ ([13:51]–[17:19])

  • Struggled with feelings of never being able to do enough, but learned the importance of small acts and incremental change.
  • Shared affecting story of aiding a mother, Fatima, who lost her food ration card—an example of tangible, life-changing action.

    “There is no act or no input or no part that is too small.” — Kelly T. Clements [14:48]

• Staying the Course: Why Aid Became a Calling ([17:19]–[22:13])

  • Exposure to grassroots public service instilled a drive to make the world better.
  • Found her place by accident—didn’t know what a “refugee” was at first.
  • Became passionate about finding solutions and assisting those most marginalized, especially women and girls in conflict zones.
  • Thrives on fieldwork and connection with refugees, describing operational visits as “like oxygen.”

Balancing Global Work and Family Life

• Work–Family Dynamics in Humanitarian Careers ([22:13]–[25:29])
  • Met her future husband at university; both pursued international careers, sometimes living apart for extended periods.
  • Became parents after fourteen years of marriage, emphasizing partnership and mutual support for family stability despite demanding careers.

    “We are truly co-parents...the kids always were secure that one of us would be there and the other would be coming back.” — Kelly T. Clements [24:38]

The State of the Global Refugee Crisis

UNHCR’s Mandate and Scale

• UNHCR 101 ([25:29]–[27:52])

  • 75 years old; established post-WWII for refugee protection, finding solutions, and addressing statelessness.
  • Operates in ~130 countries, recently with 20,000 personnel, and a needs-based budget typically $5–6 billion (with a spike up to $10 billion).

    “UNHCR’s mandate and the mandate of the office is very specific. And we are in about 130 countries around the world.” — Kelly T. Clements [26:57]

• Unprecedented Displacement ([27:52]–[28:50])

  • Record 120 million+ forcibly displaced; with climate change, even more are on the move for environmental reasons.
  • Prioritization is bottom-up—from local needs to global response.

• Shift Toward Sustainable Response ([28:50]–[32:42])

  • Moving away from unsustainable “parallel systems” of aid.
  • Focus on refugee self-reliance, integration, and host community inclusion (per the Global Compact on Refugees).

2025’s Humanitarian Aid ‘Meltdown’

• The Collapse of Funding and Impact ([32:42]–[35:22])

  • Describes the current landscape as “devastating”—resources have not kept pace with rising displacement.

    "...this year has been particularly difficult because of the meltdown...of the entire humanitarian and development aid sector.” — Kelly T. Clements [32:53]

  • In the last decade, forcibly displaced people doubled while operating resources stagnated.
  • ~185 UNHCR offices cut, 4,400 staff positions closed, partnerships with local organizations dissolved.
  • Estimated 12 million people now directly affected by service cuts.

• Effect on Host Communities and Consequences ([32:42]–[35:22])

  • Host countries (e.g., Chad, Uganda) face enormous pressures.
  • When aid dries up, refugees may turn to coping mechanisms as damaging as the crises they fled.

• Human-Level Consequences ([35:22]–[38:29])

  • Shared stories:
    • Ukrainian woman devastated by bomb damage, unable to repair her home with dwindling resources.
    • Grassroots women-led organizations in Uganda and South Sudan now at risk due to shrinking aid.
  • Emphasized people are not statistics; each person’s dignity and agency matter.

    “They’re not statistics. They’re human beings and each have very individual needs and they want to take care of themselves.” — Kelly T. Clements [38:13]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Overwhelm and Action:

  “There is no act or no input or no part that is too small.”
  — Kelly T. Clements [14:48]

• On the Scale of the Crisis:

  “Now as you mentioned, we’re over 120 million. We will have just over the same level of resources to manage.... It’s been devastating, quite honestly.”
  — Kelly T. Clements [32:46]

• On the Human Connection:

  “It does not matter where you are. It’s the human touch, it’s the ear that is listening, it’s the hug at the end of a conversation. It doesn’t matter if that is your next door neighbor or if that is someone in Bangladesh or in Congo. The connection between people is the way to build those bridges.”
  — Kelly T. Clements, responding to Virginia Woolf’s quote, [39:37]

Action Steps & Closing Thoughts

How Listeners Can Help

• Direct Support ([38:29]–[38:59])
  • Donate via unhcr.org or through national branches (e.g., Australia for UNHCR).
  • Every contribution, “big or small, makes an enormous difference.”

Final Reflection

• Global Sisterhood and Humanity ([38:59]–[40:15])
  • Echoed Virginia Woolf: “As a woman, my country is the whole world.”
  • Clements underscored the universal importance of empathy, solidarity, and human touch—regardless of nationality or circumstance.

Key Timestamps

• 03:25 Kelly on her family background
• 05:04 Early experience of gender inequality
• 07:35 First UNHCR field work in Bangladesh
• 11:31 Daily life in refugee camps
• 14:47 Psychological impact of witnessing crisis
• 17:19 Why she committed her career to refugees
• 25:29 UNHCR’s global mandate explained
• 27:52 Global displacement reaches new highs
• 32:42 Effects of recent humanitarian funding collapse
• 35:37 Individual consequences for women and girls
• 38:29 How listeners can support refugees
• 39:37 On global connection and empathy

Tone & Language

The conversation is personal, candid, and deeply humane, alternating between analytical clarity and lived, emotional storytelling. Both Julia Gillard and Kelly T. Clements maintain warmth, hope, and resolve—even amidst sobering statistics and challenging realities.

For further information or to support UNHCR’s work, visit unhcr.org or national partner sites.