42:I[58016,["/_next/static/chunks/b5ea50e123aa84a6.js","/_next/static/chunks/5e17b2e37c80a96c.js","/_next/static/chunks/de880ec5a0241b38.js","/_next/static/chunks/48003610e91209eb.js","/_next/static/chunks/15a1b1fbd3cf7d4a.js","/_next/static/chunks/81ce7bf5f20dbd5a.js","/_next/static/chunks/53f751967ccc7d59.js","/_next/static/chunks/903c358828afe0bc.js","/_next/static/chunks/9d0b0183cc9835a0.js","/_next/static/chunks/88bed98e5cd5e639.js"],"ProcessEpisodeButton"] 46:I[45269,["/_next/static/chunks/b5ea50e123aa84a6.js","/_next/static/chunks/5e17b2e37c80a96c.js","/_next/static/chunks/de880ec5a0241b38.js","/_next/static/chunks/48003610e91209eb.js","/_next/static/chunks/15a1b1fbd3cf7d4a.js","/_next/static/chunks/81ce7bf5f20dbd5a.js","/_next/static/chunks/53f751967ccc7d59.js","/_next/static/chunks/903c358828afe0bc.js","/_next/static/chunks/9d0b0183cc9835a0.js","/_next/static/chunks/88bed98e5cd5e639.js"],"SignupCTA"] 48:I[56939,["/_next/static/chunks/b5ea50e123aa84a6.js","/_next/static/chunks/5e17b2e37c80a96c.js","/_next/static/chunks/de880ec5a0241b38.js","/_next/static/chunks/48003610e91209eb.js","/_next/static/chunks/15a1b1fbd3cf7d4a.js","/_next/static/chunks/81ce7bf5f20dbd5a.js","/_next/static/chunks/53f751967ccc7d59.js","/_next/static/chunks/903c358828afe0bc.js","/_next/static/chunks/9d0b0183cc9835a0.js","/_next/static/chunks/88bed98e5cd5e639.js"],"EpisodeTranscript"] 3c:["$","span",null,{"className":"inline-flex items-center gap-2 bg-secondary/50 px-3 py-1 rounded-full","children":[["$","svg",null,{"className":"w-4 h-4","fill":"none","stroke":"currentColor","viewBox":"0 0 24 24","children":["$","path",null,{"strokeLinecap":"round","strokeLinejoin":"round","strokeWidth":2,"d":"M8 7V3m8 4V3m-9 8h10M5 21h14a2 2 0 002-2V7a2 2 0 00-2-2H5a2 2 0 00-2 2v12a2 2 0 002 2z"}]}],["$","time",null,{"dateTime":"2025-06-16T04:30:00.000Z","children":"Mon Jun 16 2025"}]]}] 43:T413,

Tommy Caldwell’s experience being held captive in Kyrgyzstan unlocks a new state of mind that propels him to become the greatest big wall climber of all time.

This conversation first aired in 2021. It is a companion episode to the one we ran last week about Beth Rodden’s experience of the same trip: “A Climber Loses Her Grip.” Same “Slight Change of Plans”, but wildly different reactions.

You can check out Tommy’s memoir here, and Beth’s memoir here.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

44:T69e,

One Trauma, Two Different Paths