← A VO's Journey: Voiceover and more voice over
A VO's Journey: Voiceover and more voice over
Ep. 276: Interview With Gabby Nistico - The State Of Voice Over
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- [00:01]
A
Hello.
- [00:01]
B
Welcome to aveo's Journey podcast. This is an exciting episode because I get to interview one of my good friends, Gabby Nistico. I'm very excited to talk to her and to share this with you. You are absolutely going to love it. We love Gabi and really thrilled about this episode. Just as a quick note, remember, we are running our big July 4th special right now through the 7th. So if you are looking to join a VO's Journey Lead Academy, you want to grow your voiceover business, you want to get acting help, you want to become a better voiceover actor and a better voiceover business owner, this is the time to join the Academy. All right, you guys, let's go ahead and dive into it. Let's do it. This is vo's Journey with your host, the incomparable Anthony Pica. It is wonderful to be with my close friend, Gabby Nistico. Hi, Gabby. Thank you so much for being on our podcast.
- [01:21]
A
Absolutely. I'm happy to be here.
- [01:23]
B
Yes, we've had Gabby before and it's always wonderful to have her back again. But we're so excited to have you today. So much to talk about in the voiceover industry and everything that's going on, but as always, I would like to start, if you wouldn't mind, just tell us, you know, a little bit about you and your journey so far as a voice actor.
- [01:46]
A
Yeah, so I started a million years ago when dinosaurs roamed the earth and. No, I was basically in the mid-90s. I was working in radio and I was in the New York City market and it's adjacent markets, and I was young and I was basically a kid, and I started doing some freelance voiceover work and it just kind of slowly but steadily grew. A lot of it was me really going, oh, man, how do I get more of this type of work? Because radio, who doesn't pay for shit? And it was sort of a slow movement out of radio and into voiceover. I've joked for years, I got my ass kicked from one side of Manhattan and back down the other because I didn't know what I was doing. I was just making all the mistakes, doing all the wrong things. And slowly but surely I figured it out. The resources and, you know, the things that we have now did not exist back then. Yeah. And I went full time in 2003 was really kind of when, yeah, voiceover became my day to day. And then I started coaching around 2008, 2009, because at the time, a big focus for me was radio imaging, which was something that a Lot of people in the industry knew next to nothing about and so I started coaching there and then over time people were asking me to help them with other things and it grew to where I am now. So yeah.
- [03:34]
B
Oh I love it. I love it. So fast forward of course till today and what you just said too, I mean even going back, the changes have been astronomical.
- [03:48]
A
Oh my God.
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B
I would say the changes too in the last couple of years have you know, as we know have been even more astronomical.
- [03:57]
A
It's unreal.
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B
So you know, what do you, from your perspective, I mean we could talk all day about all the industry changes. What do you think some of the biggest changes that have the most impact? I mean, you know, I mean clearly AI, things like that. But from your point of view how are you seeing the changes and what are those big changes for us?
- [04:20]
A
I mean AI, yes. Unescapable, unavoidable. Right now it's on everybody's mind and it's also kind of a catch 22 because I think people are forgetting that automations have been around for a while. It's not as new as we want to think. It's just advancing at this exponential rate. So there's that aspect and there's a bit of an over saturation. Like I, I was actually doing some research recently for a side project and pulled some numbers from the census and was shocked to find out that there are almost twice as many people who are, you know, reporting their income to the federal government as a full time voice actor as there are actors. And I was like what? Yeah, it's wild. You know we just, we have some really high numbers right now and that's Gabby, that's insane.
- [05:28]
B
Yeah, I always still was under the assumption that it was so opposite same.
- [05:34]
A
I was absolutely stunned when I, when I saw some of that. Yeah, it's like 63,000, you know, actors nationwide and you know, up into the hundreds, you know, 100,000 plus for voice actors. And I mean I get it. Part of it is the technology has made doing this so much easier. Right. It's not the elite club that it used to be and so it's opened doors for people in a way that we haven't seen in other parts of acting that can be a bit more restrictive. So yeah, that's, that's a biggie. The fight with rates, obviously we know that, you know, we're seeing still that, that decline and in many cases I don't even know if it's a huge decline in numbers. It's just a lot of Finagling.
- [06:33]
B
I think you're, you know, I think you're right. I mean, it's interesting because obviously the people who will pay the rates will pay them still. They don't seem to be changing that. But it does seem hard sometimes to differentiate between that and then people who are coming into the market to purchase things, who will pay, who are not going to pay that. But of course, because they come into our market and voiceover, they get lumped into everything that we've done in the past. So you know what I mean? So then it becomes this thing. Well, they're not paying the rates. Well, maybe these people that are coming in and never paid them to begin with because they're new, because there's so many new people, because a lot of my clients still pay the same industry rates, they don't seem to have a problem with it. But, you know, so it is a battle. But at the same time, it's a weird one. Now it feels weirder. It just feels not as black and white, I guess, if that makes sense.
- [07:26]
A
Well, yeah. And one of the things that lends to that not black and white anymore is digital media and the streaming services and out of home advertising, the OOO category. And something that I've been pointing out for a while, the streaming services, there's still the Wild West.
- [07:51]
B
Yeah.
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A
They're not paying broadcast rates because nobody's really regulating them to force that. You know, something, something I noticed not that long ago because like you know, the rest of the world, I've been binging the bear on Hulu that the, the Hulu can't keep up. It keeps crashing on the show because there's so many people trying to watch it at the same time. But it's interesting, right, because that shows you how many people are accessing the material. And yet it's like 600 bucks for a voiceover to run on Hulu. And that's insane when they're pulling the kinds of numbers that they are now. Here's the fun part. I was seeing a lot of liquor ads and a lot of alcohol ads and it didn't, it initially didn't strike me as strange. And then I went the regulations. So, you know, the FCC regulates alcohol and tobacco and. Right. A lot of those, those things from being advertised on television and in radio in the traditional forms, you can only air in traditional terrestrial anything and add for alcohol after 10 o' clock at night because the assumption is children are no longer watching, they've gone to bed. Wild west with the streaming services, you've got Jack Daniels ads airing at 10 o' clock in the morning and I'm going, what is happening? That sort of thing is the proof that I think it's going to be the government really stepping in and creating more guidelines for these things that are going to help us and all actors, right, you know, see fair rates because they're just getting away with anything and everything right now.
- [09:51]
B
No, and I, I, I gosh, it's wild. And I do think just to go, just to go back to what you said too, because I've been thinking a lot about supply and demand and you know, how, you know, free markets work, right? Is the more supply there is, unfortunately, the less, you know, goods or services cost or vice versa, the more demand, the more they cost. So with what you said about the numbers too, with how many voice actors are out there, I mean, I kind of felt that in some ways, I mean we kind of feel it when you go place and they're just voice actors seemingly everywhere. I mean, it's kind of there. But I mean it does in that sense too, it does make it even more harder too to keep rates up without some sort of regulation. Right? I mean, because you got people every which way sideways. I mean, I know this is crazy, but I do, I literally, gabby, have voice actors with academy voices, bless their hearts, and I feel it. But I had a person the other day contact me, say, please, I need work so bad, just let me on your platform, please. You know, and I feel bad and I'm like, listen, I got four or five hundred people waiting to get on the platform and I feel there. And it wasn't like, it wasn't like, it felt like a passionate, like a real passionate plea. So I know people are really out there trying to do everything they can to get work, but there's sadly, there's voice actors everywhere.
- [11:13]
A
I remember, I'll do a shameless plug, right? I remember when I, when I did the first edition of my book of VO101. The stats at the time, and this is going well, let's check the copyright date, shall we? I want to say it's 2010. Was the first publishing. Nope. 2005. I'm wrong. So see, I don't even know how long I've been doing this. But anyway, the stats at that time, it was like 20 to 30,000 people. That was the audience. And what's crazy is then we remember when this was probably around the 2010 mark, where was pay to plays going? We have 100,000 voice actors and at the Time we went where. What? Like where? Huh? Like there aren't that many of us. And you know, of course it was because the pay to plays. Right. Again, no standardization. They were just anybody who paid could get on the platform. So yeah, according to their numbers, they had 100,000 voice act. And then we saw like a bit of a dip there. It changed. And ever since it's been steadily on the up. And I know what you mean. Like I see it amongst friend groups and just social settings where somebody will ask what I do and we get into that conversation and they go, oh yeah, my so and so's voice. I know this person who's a voice actor and. And I'm like, you know, because what you find pretty quickly is their voice acting and our voice acting very different.
- [12:59]
B
Right? Well, yeah, I mean, that's true. You know, I had a gentleman, I had someone call me the other day and you know, I find that a lot of people want. They say voice actors, but the reality is they're people who really are dipping their toe into learning about voice acting.
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A
They did a project or two, right? Yeah.
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B
Some of them haven't even done anything. You know, some of them haven't done anything yet.
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A
I mean.
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B
Right. You know.
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A
Yeah, they're just sort of there. But because they're publicizing themselves as such. Calling themselves such. Yes. Again, I think it's, it's devalued and it's also made it so that a lot of jobs that normally people would seek us out for, they are going to like somebody's, you know, cousin or you know, the friend of a friend sort of thing.
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B
Right.
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A
And so, yeah, that entry level work that a lot of people honestly get their start with, they thrive with, you know, that's that.
- [13:58]
B
Yeah.
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A
Harder and harder to get.
- [14:00]
B
No, absolutely. So with all of that, what. You know, there are some places that do seem to be doing pretty well.
- [14:08]
A
Yes.
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B
And what opportunities or places that you see that still are doing decently well for where we are right now.
- [14:20]
A
Yeah. So commercials, because it's never going anywhere, I'm sorry to say. Advertising will exist as long as we have media. It just is what it is. And so that will continue to exponentially grow because we don't know, we don't know what's about to come out in the next day decade of, you know, again, new. New media, like streaming services are now old media. What's next?
- [14:47]
B
Right.
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A
So there's always going to be something. Audiobooks. Right now, as we talked about, booming, huge market. It's really quite impressive.
- [15:01]
B
Well, I think what's fortunate about that is the consumption. Right. It doesn't stop. So once it's consumed.
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A
Yeah.
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B
The consumer has to have. They need another one. They need another one, you know, and so, yeah, it's a. It's kind of wild. Yeah. It hasn't stopped since I started.
- [15:18]
A
Well. And it's becoming more and more popular as people get used to absorbing your podcasting and, you know. Right. It's that passive listening, passive engagement that. Yeah.
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B
Has.
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A
Has become really the norm for most people in their. Whether it be entertainment or learning.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So that's huge. And video games, because. Same thing. That market just continues to grow and grow and grow and grow, and we're going to see more genres and more innovations there that I think are going to make those opportunities interesting. I think, too, video game consumers are becoming more discerning about things like their voice acting in the games, and they're even there at the point of going, you know, this AI thing is really pretty shitty. And we can tell. And it's, you know, it's super crap.
- [16:21]
B
When it's a. I mean, the crappy thing. Well, the big crappy thing, too, about that is that, you know, so many businesses went after it. You know, if you think about. Because I said this other day, you know, it's a whole. About fooling the consumer because, you know, like, think about, I don't want to listen, and I know I'm a voice actor, but I don't want to listen to a voice about selling me something or talking to me and then realize it's a fake.
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A
Yeah.
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B
It's not real. Like, consumers don't want that. We know that. But business, you know, so it's about fooling the consumer, and the consumer will find out. I mean, I had someone contact me the other day, Gabby, it's crazy. And they, they wanted to pay me for a consultation just to tell if the voiceover they had got was AI or not, because they couldn't tell if it was AI, but they had a. They had a feeling this was a business, wasn't a voice, this was a business. You know, they just wanted to pay. I said, well, you don't have to pay me, just let me listen to it.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And. And the thing I realized was listening to it was that. And this is. This is the challenge. It could have been AI, but it could have also been a real person doing it. And the reason why is because their AI has gotten to the point where it is no better than us. Right. It can be worse, of course. But the reality is is that it was highly. It was that commercialized voice. So what you happen is, is that that's easy. I think what you said earlier too, about. It's been used for a while too. I mean, think of voicemails, think of things. I mean, the voices have been around for a long time where there has been those text to speech.
- [17:47]
A
Right.
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I mean, it's been around for a while. So this voice was a decent voiceover. So I could have seen it being a person. But the speech patterns made me believe that there was no personality added. Right. We go back to that conversational style. There was no personal personality injected into it. Right. Which is part of one reason why I love you in a sense because you bring so much of your personality and everything that you do. Whereas so many of us, I think voice actors, when we're learning, we imitate. I mean, acting is imitation. That's true. But I think a lot of times we lend ourselves almost to the impersonation side as opposed to just remembering imitation is acting. But it's through you, right? That personality that makes you different. So I thought there was an interesting thing that happened and I told him, look, it could be either way. So you as a business. What I told that you as a business have to decide. It's not whether you're choosing AI or person, it's you're choosing a style of personality. A. A, you know, a way that someone is going to deliver your message. Because this is very. Just bland because. Because you know, you know, listen to the speech pattern being the same.
- [19:00]
A
Oh, sure.
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B
But it still was not bad. And I think that's what people have to realize about AI Right. Is they're a competitor. So you just have to be a better actor.
- [19:10]
A
Well, and along those same lines. So. Right. Another kind of what I'm calling the ray of hope in all of this stuff that we're seeing.
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B
Right.
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A
So are you familiar with. He's a guy on his. I mean, he's on all the social channels. So to try to peg him to just one is crazy. But he goes by Rockstar, Rockstar voiceovers. And this guy's big claim to fame is he takes animal videos and yeah, he re narrates and he makes them hilarious. I mean, they're already funny to begin with, but he's adding even more. And so it's interesting because when I first encountered a lot of his stuff. Stuff, I was like, okay, yeah, this guy's a content creator. This is really great what he's doing. This is really funny. And it's very entertaining. He also keeps it pretty clean, which is sort of fun because it. Right. It has mass appeal.
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B
Right.
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A
I didn't realize that he was calling himself a voice actor until I actually went and looked at some of his tags and his material. And I was like, this isn't voiceover. And then. Right. I had to kind of sit with that for a minute and I was like, this is an evolution of voiceover. This is something new because he's taking his vocal talents. Right.
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B
Right.
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A
He's marrying it with content creation video, and he's script writing. And I'm like, yeah, he's. So who knows? That might be a new direction. Now he's in that weird. Right. Pseudo celebrity category where of course he has followers and people love him, but he's not a real household name yet. But I could see that happening. And that is so interesting. Right there. There may be. There's also a group. Oh, my God, I forgot their name. I think critical something. They're a D and D group. And this is a group of voice actors out of LA who all got together. They're all nerds. They all play Dungeons and Dragons.
- [21:30]
B
I feel like I've heard of it. I mean, I feel like I've heard of this.
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A
They have made an empire. It is unlike anything I've ever seen. The website is like 800 pages. I mean, it's just this. They have merchandise, they have podcasts, they have live event, they. They put on concerts, they go to theaters and do live shows and sell out. All it is is people watching them play D and D. But the entertaining part comes from the fact that these are professional voice actors who know how to use their voices to make the performance dynamic and to bring in characters and to do really fun things. And when I tell you, it is cult status following.
- [22:20]
B
Wow.
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A
I'm. Yeah. Like, how can you not be impressed by that? But you all. But I also see where I'm like, this might very well be the direction we go in. Yeah.
- [22:32]
B
Wow. No. Well, I had to admit to you, I love that. I mean, personally, because I love the idea, you know, and I know both of us do. I love the idea of us taking more charge over our business. Right. Is not so much reliant on other people all the time. And in some senses, it is an opportunity for all of us to be able to grow something that's not just reliant upon someone else hiring us.
- [23:02]
A
Also, there are so few people that got into this that don't have the creative performance spark. The thing that ultimately makes you want to go, look at me, right? Look what I can do and look what I can do. And it becomes that sort of component that we go, yeah, why wouldn't I want to show that off? Find some uniqueness, find some way to establish myself in a more, maybe a more whole way, right? Where it's not just voice, it's all of me. So. Yeah, but voiceover can be the catalyst or the thing that kind of leads it for people.
- [23:52]
B
I love that. I really do. I really do.
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A
I do too. And I mean, there's lots of stories right now of people, people on the various platforms, some of whom were hobbyists at the start and some of whom, you know, like, got puppeteers, animators, right. People who had some other voiceover adjacent thing, and now they're repped by agents and they are working voice actors. It's wild.
- [24:23]
B
No, I think you. I think the age of what we live in, you know, where I mean, anybody age. I mean, it's still, even to this day. Who was I watching? This was. It was. Oh, it was a famous rapper who was an old school rapper. I can't remember. They were interviewing him. Oh, gosh. Who was it? It wasn't. It wasn't 50 Cent, but it was one of those very popular rapper, old school wise. But they asked him what his main revenue was today and he said, it's not. It was not my music anymore. It's me on Twitch narrating me playing video games. Like I narrate, you know, like, you know, like, you know, we go live on Twitch and stuff and people watching. I mean, and it was just.
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A
Was it exhibit.
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B
I can't remember who it was, but.
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A
I feel like that's something. Yeah, okay.
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B
And everybody was just blown away by, you know, the fact that, yeah, the change that we all live through, you know, is. And so again, so then that leads to, you know, the way a traditional voice actor makes money through, you know, you are paid via your time to record something and then a licensing fee, you know, something to use your work. But this, you know, this is a whole new way of looking at not only just being sports sponsored, you know, merchandise. I mean, there's so many different things. So it does then. It does then start to get to this place where now I. And I'm not saying that we didn't before, but now I feel like we really need to focus even more about building a business. Right? Like a business. Whereas as opposed to us being repped by an agent, us having other people.
- [26:12]
A
Get work, it's building the personal brand. It's being very bold in said personal brand. And this is the weird part. So I don't know about you, but. Right. For years I have told people, I'm like, you're not gonna get discovered. Give up on that bullshit. Right? There's no right. That's Hollywood fantasy. Right. Because there are still people who think that they think they're gonna get discouraged. Discovered in voiceover. Ironically, this creates the possibility for that. Again, this create. Because if you go pre 1980s, right. That's how voice actors were found. Literally, you had a weird voice and you worked somewhere and someone in the industry heard you, recognized it and went, I want to bring you in for a test. Now this. Yeah. Opens those doors again where somebody could go, holy, this person's really talented. I want to link up with them, collaborate, represent them, whatever it is. And it's like, wow.
- [27:20]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [27:21]
A
No, I mean, I didn't think I'd ever see that in my. In my time, I was like, we're not going to get discovered. That's. You just. You work your ass off and then you prove to an agent you're worth, you know now. Yeah. It might be the other way around.
- [27:36]
B
No, you bring up such a good point. Because, you know, video that's 30 seconds long can change your life forever.
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A
Exactly.
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B
You never know.
- [27:44]
A
Exactly. It's that one viral moment, that one, you know.
- [27:52]
B
So I think getting going down that vein, it. I do want to also tell you because I know it can be hard, especially as a newcomer or even someone in the industry trying to innovate, do something, move their career and voice over to a path. When you get to this point, like we're talking about, and I know you and I, we're big dreamers. A lot of people I know, for me, when I work with voice actors, I always try to also say, listen, this is wonderful things that we're doing and we're talking. We want to go in this direction. But also please be aware that this is not. This is, you know, takes time to build. This is not something, you know, that. Now, yes, if something goes viral, things can happen quickly. But generally speaking, it takes time to build something like this. Whereas a tradition, traditional voiceovers, you're paid. There is a marriage there, I think, right. Like, especially right now, you know, where we need a base for our business, but we also looking to the future.
- [28:53]
A
The Washington Post, I think it was like a week or so ago, Post posted an article. There was some survey that said the majority, they didn't Give. I don't think they gave a percentage, but they said the majority of Gen Z and Alphas, if you ask them what they do, their profession, they say content Creator. It's just an overwhelming amount of people now. This is really. This is something. Are you familiar with Micro Center? A lot of people aren't. It's a. It's a computer. It's. It's a nerd paradise. It is. It makes Best Buy look like a toy store. Okay.
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B
Really?
- [29:40]
A
Yeah.
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B
Is it. Is it a brick and mortar store or is it online?
- [29:43]
A
Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's brick and mortar and it's in select cities throughout the country. And basically you can do everything from build a computer yourself from the ground up to gaming systems to again, everything, Everything and anything electronics that you can think of. But they're expanding in ways I never saw from them in the past. I remember, like going into a Micro center in Atlanta 10, 15 years ago, and I would be like, where are your headphones? And they would have like this little cute little rack of professional headphones available now. It's an entire aisle. So anyway, the one that just opened up here in Charlotte, they have a section in the store literally called Content Creators. And it is everything. Audio, video, lighting, sets. I mean, you know what that makes.
- [30:45]
B
Me think of too? This is amazing. But, you know, had you ever watch Reactions? So the reaction business from Content Creator has become massive. So basically it's people, right, Who. A video comes out, some music or something, and then you have all these people who make reaction videos to it. So basically sitting there giving their opinion.
- [31:04]
A
Oh, my God.
- [31:05]
B
But they're using the same equipment who watch it.
- [31:08]
A
And I'm like, what is this? Why do you find this entertaining? It's so weird to me. But yes, that's a huge market. Yeah.
- [31:17]
B
So, I mean, that's. So those people are using the similar equipment, right, that we use. I mean, their microphones, cameras, lights, you know, recording equipment, software. It's all the same.
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A
It is crazy. And I was in the, you know, in this aisle with lighting and microphone gear and just. And like listening to people, listening to kids, right? Like with their parents literally schooling, mom and dad going, well, I need that kind of light for that. I got to get a key light. I've got to get. And I'm like, holy crap, this child actually knows what they're talking about. But here's the other piece to it. Right up until now, a lot of these creators have. Have been individuals and they started this trajectory all by themselves until it got to A place where they couldn't manage it anymore. And by then they're making money and they're hiring people. Our goal in that world is going to be teaming up, right? Because if you have a voice actor who teams up with the video editor, who teams up with an animator, it's going to be like, I think more.
- [32:25]
B
Voice actors, which is somewhat what we're talking about, you know, in the past, you know, I think more voice actors, you know, and we're starting to do this at a video's journey with Academy Voices Entertainment, where we're teaming up with each other to build content, create with people who are good at dubbing, people are good at creating different types of video content, voice acting, you know, and yeah, I'm off. I think that that is an amazing. Because together we're more. We're going to get more done anyways.
- [32:52]
A
Collaboration is the single most powerful word I think of this generation. And you know, I, I've even been doing it on a very small scale in that sometimes I have students who, you know, they'll have a very similar goal or market or area that they're trying to go after. And if I have one male and one female or, you know, two people of the same gender but with wildly different voices, I go, listen, you guys should team up because you're doing the same thing and you're each doubling efforts. So if you work together, you can achieve that much more. And, you know, it's what, sharing information, it's sharing resources and it's making sure that everybody pulls their own weight.
- [33:44]
B
No, I love it. And you know what's interesting to me about this, what's really interesting me about a lot about this conversation is, and I will admit I. And I've told people this, when it comes to myself, I'm. I have, I am very. And this is awful, but I'm very closed into my community. So I don't know a lot sometimes I don't. I just, I feel like I don't have time. But anyways, what. Sure. What I'm getting at is that I do feel like I don't know the things I do. See, not a lot of people are talking about what you're talking about here. I mean, at least in our industry, I don't know if you hear. But I don't hear a lot of us talking about this.
- [34:22]
A
I don't either. And it's very strange to me because I'm like, for me of all people to be the one talking about this, I'm like, I hate people I am not a team player. I don't. You know, like, that is so weird that I'm sort of, you know. Yeah. Trying to lead the charge with some of that because. But I'm like, it's not a personal thing. It's about business success, and businesses don't operate in a vacuum and we can't really do it by ourselves.
- [34:54]
B
Well, not only that, I will have to say I agree with you so much here. And so I recently tried to do a project where. Well, we have it. It's called Skyborne, and this is an audio drama series. But I wanted to turn it into an animation, and I put this whole thing together. Anyways, the point of the story is I. I had reached out to animators, things like that, and I have to tell you, I don't have enough money to pay these people. And it dawned on me, it would be so wonderful to collaborate, but so few of them, or at least the ones that I've tried to. Everybody's trying to charge as much as they can or get whatever they can because they have to survive. You know what I mean? But what you're saying, you know, But I thought to myself, you know, imagine being able to put together a team. So, I mean, really, you know, we're creating our own studios, our own workings. But anyways, the long story short was it was really sad because I couldn't. I couldn't afford it, so I ended up not being able to do it, so I had to, you know, go back to. Which is nothing wrong with doing an audio drama, but in our day of visual.
- [36:04]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [36:05]
B
You know, Q. And it would be so nice to be able to create that sense of across the board, not just us as voice actors, but like you were saying, right. You have a studio, you have engineers, we've got other content creators and styles like that. But, you know, it does seem that. And here's another thing. Have you noticed it seems like some people are charging even more than they used to before just because they're doing everything they can to survive in some senses. I've noticed some of that, at least in some other content areas. I'm not so much sure about voiceover, but I've noticed that in animation, things like that, people won't even talk to you if you don't pay them immediately up front.
- [36:44]
A
Like, yeah, we're seeing it. Web development, There's a lot of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. But. But it's gonna. Again, it's gonna shift. It doesn't have a choice.
- [36:54]
B
Yeah.
- [36:55]
A
So what's interesting about what you just said, and, you know, I think where those people are going to emerge and where those relationships are going to begin is places like, you know, shared podcast space and shared studios, because they're popping up everywhere. Yeah. There's like four or five facilities here in town that are like, you know. Right. Film, audio.
- [37:22]
B
Oh, so you mean. Wait, what do you mean by. What do you mean by that shared? You mean like, like a place you can rent?
- [37:29]
A
Yeah, yeah. So what's starting to happen is because again, content creation is what everybody's doing. There are people who have invested money into purchasing a. Building a space. Right. And creating suites that other people can rent or that becomes sort of like a wework. Right. Sort of like a co working space. But it's key, geared towards creators.
- [37:56]
B
It's like the new studio.
- [37:58]
A
Yes. And inevitably, inevitably, that is exactly where those relationships are going to start developing and building. And I've, you know, it's funny because it was a dream of my brother and I years ago. We had talked about it. We had said if we could just buy a space that we could convert into individual suites, we could make a fortune renting it out. And lo and behold, now here it is. This is starting to happen, which, you know, I'm kind of telling people, I'm like, go when those companies have a networking event. Go when they create a club that you can pay, pay, you know, whatever it is, $25 a month to be part. Do it. You may not even need the studio space, but that's how you're going to meet people.
- [38:55]
B
Oh, yeah. Oh, wow.
- [38:58]
A
Yeah. You know, and it's going to grow. That's going to be more and more and more. That's going to be the thing.
- [39:02]
B
There's always some, there is always opportunities, places. It just sometimes is not the traditional way they used to be because they've changed. Things are changing. Right. And that's what new opportunities are.
- [39:14]
A
Exactly. And I think, you know, we just. It's what you said, it's that, you know, we're always, we've always got our hands in something. The creativity that it's, it's not allowing yourself to sit in a box and be in that same. You, You've got to look at what's happening out there and how people are interacting. You know, I mean, Charlotte's not a huge town. It's a, it's a decent sized market. But I go by a lot of what's happening here. We're seeing all kinds of wild things in terms of mixed use space and you know. Right. These collaborative things that. Yeah. Are becoming more and more successful.
- [40:01]
B
You know, they had to you better back. I mean, I. I'm not there clearly, but with the YouTube channel, you know, it's. YouTube had kind of created something like that for people who had gotten to a certain point. Had you heard about that? They're the YouTube recording places. So basically if you get to a certain subscriber number, YouTube has these places all over the country in the world where you. You have access to that you can go to. And they've had this for quite a while. But you have to get to like. Yeah, I think it's a certain numbers. Whether it's a hundred thousand or a million or something. But when you get to a certain set of subscribers. Subscribers, you go to these places and they have like. Like a recording studios for you and stuff that you can use and things.
- [40:39]
A
That's cool.
- [40:40]
B
Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, I think by that time most people have their own setups, of course, but it does give an interesting, you know, idea of the fact that this is. It's so interesting that things have start. And now it's really starting to come to a head. You know, like the opportunities are there. I wanted to ask you, moving on to, you know, some of the traditional things you're seeing. Agencies, agents.
- [41:01]
A
Yes.
- [41:03]
B
What. What are you. What are you seeing with that? I know that the people I talk to, they're saying they can't even get agents to talk to them anymore most of the time. Or they're just not bringing on people. What are you seeing?
- [41:15]
A
They're. They themselves. Right. Are. Are struggling. Their numbers are down. So their efforts right now are not on talent acquisition but on. On bringing in more sales. So they are really focused on trying to develop more client relationships, bringing in more business. They've. Most of them have kind of dropped their roster review down to twice a year at most.
- [41:49]
B
Right.
- [41:50]
A
Some of them it's just one once, which I know sucks for us because it makes you think you've potentially been rejected or. You know, but it could literally take a year for them to finally get around to listening and hearing your stuff and deciding if they want to work with you. So that's. But we've seen that before. We really.
- [42:11]
B
You know, now that you said that, it makes me feel the same way with it with academy voices because, you know, I feel bad. But I mean, I have. I have, you know, four or five hundred people just waiting. But then I'm kind of like it would be Great to have all them. But unfortunately, actually, do I really need them all right now?
- [42:27]
A
Yes.
- [42:28]
B
What I really need is more business. So I do see what you mean. Which goes back to play, though, into what we've been talking about, right, which is those opportunities that are not so reliant, which is so odd in some senses, because the irony of it is, is the more that you do the other thing that we've been talking about, building the brand, becoming, you know, that content creator, the more these people want you. Yes, right. I mean, these days it is about popularity.
- [42:57]
A
It is, right, Absolutely. I don't think. And I know that YouTube and some of the other platforms, like, they have, you know, their conventions, they have almost like, you know, content. Oh, yeah, whatever the hells. I don't think we're far away, though, from versions of that being made available to the general public to go meet their favorite celebrities from, like, twitch. Twitch has TwitchCon, and that's primarily what it is. It's a chance to go meet these people that have become Twitch famous. And it's like, holy crap. And the tickets are insanely priced. And I mean, just like any con, right, Whether it be animation or anything else, you still. You pay your admission fee, but then you still gotta pay to meet people and get autographs.
- [43:48]
B
And it's so wild, the world we live in now that we have to. We pay to meet people in person because our lives are lived over a digital world.
- [43:59]
A
I know, but Andy Warhol, man, he was spot on. Right? Everybody's gonna have their 15 minutes. He. Absolutely. But then it's a matter, what do you do with those 15 minutes? How do you turn them into 30?
- [44:13]
B
Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. Well, I think we've. We've talked a lot about and actually, which I love the future of voiceover here today. Right. Like, what are the opportunities and what are the things about that talked a little about agents. I just want to ask you, like. Like a couple more questions. The first thing is, this is a tough one, but because we're all. But we always have. Is always something you and I know are tackling. I'm brand new. I'm coming in. I want to be a proper voice actor, whatever that may be. I want to be a proper voice actor. You know, what. What's your path? And there's so many paths. But what's your recommendation? Or even just one or two recommendations for a new voice actor who wants to put in the work?
- [44:58]
A
Okay, there's two answers to that. If you are coming from another industry, you have to Take all of your existing knowledge, networking abilities, contacts in that market to start offering your voiceover services to it and really, really working to not only create, carve yourself out as a voiceover expert in that business, but to then start branching from there and using that network to propel success for you, which I've seen work very successfully for people in medical, in the corporate sphere, you know, all kinds of arenas, even government. On the other side, if you are young enough that you're like, I don't have previous career, I'm right, then you got to put all of your eggs into acting. You have to really, truly just make yourself a stellar phenomenal performer who's very, very memorable and you know, continue to develop those traditional and non traditional relationships that, that actors have.
- [46:26]
B
You know what I love, I'm sorry I was gonna say, you know, what I love about acting is that no matter what we go through, no matter what changes are made, there's still not a single substitute for an amazing actor. No, I mean, right. I mean like you, you can, I mean, it's amazing. It's, it's, it's.
- [46:42]
A
Yeah.
- [46:43]
B
You know, that has not changed no matter what. And I don't think it will ever change.
- [46:47]
A
I don't think so either. I really think that some of what is, is likely to happen too is, and this is partially because of AI we also are very likely going to see a situation where like again, it used to be. It's weird. We come all this way to go back in the 80s and the 90s, it was literally crapped upon. If you were a celebrity doing commercial work, right. It was like, oh my God, you, you were just. Yeah, your career was over.
- [47:28]
B
Right.
- [47:29]
A
And it was an really, it was an insult for them to take a voice acting job. Now they're all doing it, right. Everybody's got celebrity voiceover interest or wants. But I think again, we're going to move back to that where people are going to go, you know what? I am a better actor than that. I am a more skilled. Which ironically is going to open up doors for us again. Right. It's going to make it so that voice actors can come back in to those, those things we used to dominate almost exclusively.
- [48:03]
B
Right?
- [48:03]
A
Yeah.
- [48:04]
B
Oh, no, I've seen an interview. Was it Dennis? Who was it? Anyways, it was an interview and he was talking about the very thing he said he used to be back in that time where they, it was actually taboo to do even personal appearances too much. Like everything was supposed to be about you being mysterious. You're supposed to wait till they see you on the big screen. Right, Right, Exactly. But that's all changed.
- [48:29]
A
But I think we're going to go back there.
- [48:31]
B
I agree with you.
- [48:31]
A
I think we are. Slowly but surely. Like, I was watching Saturday Night Live recently, and, like, there were 10 celebrity guests, including Matt Damon, all in this one episode. And I was just like, this is gonna come to. That's gonna quit. Like, you're. They're going to have to go back to being kind of elite.
- [48:52]
B
Yeah.
- [48:52]
A
If again, they expect to keep going. Yes. You still have to be personable, but you can't be as accessible.
- [49:01]
B
Right. Well, no. Right. Because where's the mystery? Where's the interest in it anymore become so easy? So, look, we. Gosh, you and I could talk forever. I want to definitely get to something really cool that you mentioned to me. So you started a charity.
- [49:18]
A
I did.
- [49:19]
B
Oh, my God. Tell us about it. Tell us about it.
- [49:21]
A
Okay, so this is like the first public thing I've said about it, by.
- [49:26]
B
The way, so I don't.
- [49:28]
A
Screw it. Almost freaked out a little bit. So it's my own personal answer response attempt to help on the AI front. And it's called art, not AI art, not a. It's a.org website, artnotai.org and the deal is it has a couple of main missions. One, education, Two, exposure, and three, eventually being able to help artists who have been affected by AI. It's not exclusive to Voiceover. It is all the arts. And ultimately, what I'm trying to do is get companies to commit to when possible, when it makes sense, not replace a human workforce or a machine, especially when it comes to artistic endeavors. The website, like, I just finished it. I'm still doing some tweaks. If somebody finds a glaringly obvious issue, please send me an email, let me know. Like I said, I'm still working on it, but gonna hopefully be doing some fundraising, doing some events. If anybody wants to get involved or wants to volunteer, that would be amazing because I desperately am going to need help with this. I can't do it by myself. And, yeah, it's exciting. And I'm hoping that the more we present it to the arts community, it's just going to grow from there, and people are really going to, I think, take an interest in it and start recognizing that, yes, AI absolutely has a place, and it's with data and statistics and numbers. Let it compute. Let it do the things that it's great at and that it doesn't screw up and leave the artistic stuff to Us, right.
- [51:18]
B
I love this. This is so great. And I love the idea that you are including so, you know, more arts because we're all in. You know, it's so funny. Even though we act individually sometimes if you look at any project, we, all the projects, most of the arts all come together for a project anyways. So, you know, it affects us all.
- [51:44]
A
Yes, absolutely. I mean, just, you know, the reason I kind of branched into that is because, you know, photographers, I have so many photographer friends whose businesses have been decimated by this and graphic designers are kind of next and we're going, this has to stop. At what point does the very definition of art no longer mean what it means?
- [52:12]
B
Do you ever feel like, and maybe, I don't know, there's something like, something that a charity like this can tackle, but kind of what we said earlier, where I was telling you my just woes trying to find someone that I could actually work with, that I could afford. I mean, and the spaces that you were mentioning, I do feel like there's something there, you know, whether it's community, something that we create to where, you know, the art, different people in the communities can come together to start creating again that is solely dedicated to just human creation. Because we need to get back to a lot of that because, let's be honest, so much scripts, even so much everything is being written by AI, which I do think is the reason why most of the stuff I watch on TV is 30 years old.
- [53:04]
A
The new stuff is terrible, right?
- [53:06]
B
I mean, once here and there you get something really good.
- [53:09]
A
But.
- [53:09]
B
But the majority of the stuff that's being created, it's just kind of like, oh, this is. Or they're taking old stuff, you know what I mean? Like there's not. So it's, it's very interesting, but the pricing, the challenges that we all face is because we're all trying to make, make it so you know, it. So there's. There's something there, something will. Will happen. I think we're seeing it where we come together.
- [53:31]
A
It's a creat in la. You don't have this problem in la. This has been going on for years, right? This is how people connect, they collaborate, they work together, they have a shared dream and they try to make it real. And when you look at the history of a lot of entertainment, that's how it happened. So now the thing is, it's not limited to la, it's nationwide and we don't know how to do it. We're like, everybody's sort of in their own bubble going, how do I find these people? So, yeah, something that connects us. Absolutely. One of the things that I'm doing through art, not AI, is I'm creating an artists section where artists can share their stories, where they can promote their work. And who knows? Maybe that's the start of it. Maybe that's the start of some collaborative effort where we can reach out to each other. I don't know.
- [54:26]
B
I love it. Well, listen, I think we have had a wonderful conversation. It is always such a joy to talk to you. And so, you know, just to finish up here, tell folks, you know, about where they can find you, and they could talk more and the conversation can continue.
- [54:49]
A
It's just. You can use my name, Gabrielle nistico.com the web address. You can Google me. I've got a YouTube channel called Gift of Gab. And also a lot of my apps are Voiceover Vixen. So you'll track me down. I'm everywhere. Not hard to find me. And, yeah, I'm happy to talk, collaborate, whatever.
- [55:13]
B
Well, listen, thank you so much for being on our podcast, and you have a wonderful rest of your week.
- [55:19]
A
My pleasure. Thank you.
- [55:20]
B
All right.
- [55:21]
A
Yep. Bye.
- [55:21]
B
Bye.