Black Forest Labs has established itself as a pioneer in visual intelligence, with its open-weight FLUX models reaching over 50 million downloads on Hugging Face and rivaling models from Google, OpenAI, and DeepSeek in developer adoption. The company has distinguished itself not only through technical capability, but through a strong commitment to open research.

In this conversation, Black Forest Labs’ Adam Chen and Ben Brooks, who lead the company’s legal and policy work, join Matt Perault to discuss what it means to build frontier visual AI openly. They explain the role of open models in advancing transparency, driving down the cost of innovation for developers, and strengthening security and sovereignty by reducing the world’s reliance on a handful of closed APIs. They also outline the unique policy challenges facing open-weight model developers.

For policymakers, their message is clear: supporting open innovation does not require abandoning oversight. It requires targeted rules, analysis of where harms arise, and a better understanding of how proposed regulations land on smaller frontier labs, not just the largest incumbents.

The conversation also offers a window into what it looks like to build a policy function at a startup. Adam and Ben offer a candid view into how they enable their small team to have outsized impact, rather than trying to match Big Tech’s playbook.

Topics covered:

00:48: Intro

01:57: What is Black Forest Labs?

03:13: The makeup of a legal team at a frontier AI startup

07:14: The role of visual intelligence in the AI ecosystem

09:49: Core risks and baseline safeguards for visual models

10:34: Unique policy challenges of open-weight models

12:25: Restricting access to general-purpose technology should be a last resort

15:52: What’s at stake: open models as soft power and the China dynamic

20:07: BFL’s approach to being open and responsible

22:26: BFL’s model testing results

24:59: How a four-person legal team approaches disclosure and compliance

28:32: What works and what doesn’t in transparency proposals

31:07: Navigating the state, federal, and international patchwork as a startup

33:47: BFL’s advocacy goals

37:13: The Little Tech voice as a competitive advantage in the policy ecosystem

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