Podcast Summary:

The a16z Show – "Submarines and the Future of Defense Manufacturing"
Date: March 25, 2026
Host: David Ulovich
Guests: Vice Admiral Robert Goucher (U.S. Navy, Pentagon's first Submarine Czar), Chris Power (Founder & CEO, Hadrian)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the urgent need to rebuild and modernize America’s submarine industrial base, focusing especially on labor shortages and the role of advanced, software-driven manufacturing. The discussion is held “on stage” at the opening of Hadrian’s Factory 4 in Alabama, a cutting-edge facility designed to support the Columbia and Virginia-class submarine programs. David Ulovich leads a lively conversation with Vice Admiral Robert Goucher and Chris Power about defense manufacturing, workforce development, technology, and submarines’ evolving role in a changing world.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Strategic Importance of Submarines

• Stealth and Deterrence:
  • Submarines are the U.S.'s most survivable nuclear deterrent; they can go undetected anywhere globally ([00:00], [03:22], [04:33] Goucher).
  • Ballistic missile subs ensure any nuclear attack on the U.S. would unleash devastating retaliation, underpinning “decades of peace.”

    “We can pretty much go anywhere in the world undetected. That ensures that we continue our decades of peace without nuclear war.”
    — Vice Admiral Goucher [00:00]

• Protecting Sea Lanes and Strategic Supply Chains:
  • Submarines also keep global waters open for trade and allied resupply ([03:22]).

2. The Industrial Capacity Crisis

• Workforce Shortage:

  • Post–Cold War, the U.S. let manufacturing (and its skilled workers) atrophy.

    “An entire generation was told to skip the factory floor. Four decades later, the Navy needs more than five times the capacity it had a decade ago.”
    — David Ulovich [00:47]

  • Only about 13 million labor hours were required per sub in the early 2000s; today, 70 million hours are needed to meet demand ([04:50] Goucher).
  • The pool of experienced workers, especially welders and machinists, is aging out ([05:46], [13:41] Power).

• Why It’s Not a Money Problem:

  • Funding exists, but enough skilled people don't ([00:31], [05:46] Power).

• Productivity Must Rise:

  • Advanced factories are essential to “fuse workforce training and software together.”

    “We have to get this productivity uplift by fusing workforce training and software together to go a lot faster.”
    — Chris Power [00:31][05:46]

3. Hadrian’s Factory 4 & Modern Manufacturing

• Transforming Industrial Output:
  • The 2.25M sq ft Alabama facility aims to support both new builds and maintenance ([01:43], [13:24] Ulovich/Power).
• Software-Driven Productivity:
  • Augmenting scarce skilled labor with software, automation, and rapid training ([13:41] Power).
  • Flexible, high-mix, low-volume manufacturing suits unpredictable, complex submarine production ([13:41] Power).
  • Software also provides real-time visibility into production, helps prevent bottlenecks, and reconfigures lines as needed ([15:33]).

4. Leadership and Accountability

• Enter the Submarine Czar:

  • Goucher’s new role centralizes accountability and accelerates decisions across stakeholders, cutting bureaucratic obstacles ([06:59], [07:25] Goucher).

    “One of the smartest things we could be doing is, hey, there is a single accountable person that just runs this instead of 20 people trying to contribute.”
    — Chris Power [09:28]

• Coordination Challenges:

  • Many stakeholders, but recent organizational changes are streamlining efforts ([11:01] Goucher).
  • Need for a smooth transition and getting “all levers...moving in the right direction” ([08:36] Goucher).

5. Modern Conflict and the Emergence of Drones

• Submarines as Command Nodes:
  • Submarines’ role is expanding beyond nuclear deterrence—they can act as command/control hubs for networks of unmanned systems ([12:23], [20:46] Goucher).

    “I could see a world where a submarine goes far forward. It connects with a network of drones … The submarine may never have to shoot a weapon.”
    — Vice Admiral Goucher [12:23]

  • New, attritable underwater drones like those from Anduril are complementary, but cannot replace versatile, multi-mission submarines ([19:28], [19:58]).

6. The Myth of Easy Automation

• Humans Still Crucial:
  • Big misconception: “Hey, it’s all automated, we don’t need the people.” Submarines require a massive, highly-skilled workforce, including engineers and machinists ([21:18] Power).
  • Building a sub is, for tolerancing and welding, as hard (or harder) than rockets.

    “This thing has to go 100% right for 30, 40 years. It’s huge.” — Chris Power [21:18]

Notable Quotes and Moments

• [00:31] Chris Power:
  “The power of combining the new workforce, American software, American steel, and American spirit—you have to get this productivity jump somehow with advanced factories.”

• [05:41] David Ulovich:
  “Chris, how do you think about industrial capacity and what it is and what it means?”

• [07:33] David Ulovich:
  “Submarine czar is a much better title than derpim.”

• [09:28] Chris Power:
  “One of the smartest things we could be doing is, hey, there is a single accountable person that just runs this instead of 20 people trying to contribute.”

• [12:23] Vice Admiral Goucher:
  “The real advantage there is we can then build the payload … and I could see a world where a submarine connects with a network of drone[s] … and the submarine may never have to shoot a weapon.”

• [21:18] Chris Power:
  “The biggest misconception is, hey, it’s all automated. … It’s all about the people and productivity combined.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:43: Introduction and high-level summary of submarine deterrence and current workforce/manufacturing crisis
• 03:22: Goucher on submarine roles and global necessity
• 04:50: Deep dive into labor hours, workforce needs, and scaling challenges
• 06:59: Creation of the “Submarine Czar”/DERPIMS role and purpose
• 09:28: How decision-speed and accountability have improved
• 13:24: Advanced manufacturing – what makes a modern submarine factory different
• 16:09: Bottlenecks and high-impact opportunities in modernizing production
• 18:35: Proving capability, accelerating timelines, risk and qualification
• 19:28: Comparing multi-billion-dollar manned submarines to cheap, expendable drones
• 21:18: Myths about automation and the centrality of people in defense manufacturing

Actionable Takeaways

• Rebuilding the Defense Industrial Base is National Mission: Solving the labor and productivity crisis is as much about national will and workforce strategy as technology.
• Advanced Software is Essential: Productivity increases and flexible manufacturing are mandatory—and possible—with 21st-century tools.
• Leadership Structures Matter: Centralized, accountable management (like the “Submarine Czar”) can sharply improve results by cutting through bureaucratic inertia.
• Multi-Generational Commitment: Both the labor pool and the physical plants must be set up to iterate and endure for decades.

Final Thoughts

This episode makes a compelling case that maintaining naval superiority in a software-driven era demands not only cutting-edge tech, but a renewed focus on people, process, and organizational clarity. The blending of legacy know-how, AI/software, and a new spirit of urgency may define whether America can truly “build again” at the scale 21st-century challenges demand.