Why We Invested In Cluely

Summary

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a16z Podcast — "Why We Invested In Cluely"

Date: June 21, 2025
Host: Andreessen Horowitz (Brian Kim Jo, John, Jordi)
Episode Theme:
This episode unpacks a16z’s decision to invest in Cluely, an AI product making waves online. Brian Kim Jo, a partner at a16z, joins John and Jordi to discuss what set Cluely apart, the role of momentum and risk in AI investing, and the unique distribution and marketing genius of founder Roy. The episode blends insights on product evaluation, founder dynamics, and the evolving nature of tech go-to-market strategies.

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Main Theme and Purpose

The conversation centers on why Andreessen Horowitz (a16z) invested $15 million in Cluely—a viral AI desktop app. The guest, partner Brian Kim Jo, explains how distribution, product innovation, and unconventional go-to-market tactics influenced the decision. The team explores the calculated risks a16z takes with founders like Roy, the unique distribution approaches for AI apps, and how "momentum is a moat" in the current era.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Cluely? a16z’s Rationale for Investing

• Distribution as a Strength (02:35–03:38):
  Brian emphasizes that repeatable, organic distribution is rare and crucial. Roy, Cluely’s founder, excels at breaking through the noise—a key driver for the investment:

  • “It's really, really hard to get distribution these days, and to get it repeatedly is a little bit of a dark art. … Roy had that in abundance.” (Brian Kim Jo, 02:35)

• Product Love and the “Dragon Ball Z” Test (02:56–03:38):
  Brian illustrates how Cluely feels like a real-life “scouter” from Dragon Ball Z that instantly gives context during online interactions.

  • “I always wanted one of those scouters that tells you, how strong is Jordy, how strong is John. … And that's essentially what it is on your web browser.” (Brian Kim Jo, 02:56)

• Revenue and Real Traction (05:30):
  Addressing skepticism about hype versus substance, Brian notes Cluely’s ability to turn attention into paying users, both in consumer and enterprise markets.

  • “He is actually converting that to revenue…so that, to me, is the seriousness that underlies the crazy stunts people see outside.” (Brian Kim Jo, 05:30)

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2. Distribution: New Playbooks and Viral Attention

• Earned Media, Virality, and Limits (05:59–07:21):
  Jordi and John probe whether Roy’s viral stunts and organic buzz are sustainable or just a “beachhead” to get started. Is there a cap to earned media, or can a founder keep going viral indefinitely?

  • Jordi distinguishes between an attention-grabbing launch and the need for scalable, traditional GTM channels.

• The MrBeast Playbook, Reversed (06:30–07:21):
  They wonder if Roy is building a new type of founder-driven viral brand, inverting the “MrBeast launches snacks” formula.

• Brian’s Perspective on Sustainable Virality (07:27–08:10):
  Brian argues that the online “oceans” of audience are vast and mostly untapped.

  • “From a media and audience perspective, I think of it as like a bunch of oceans…all of these pools of water are very, very deep. … And for general population…we’re just scratching the surface today.” (Brian Kim Jo, 07:27)

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3. Calculated Risk and Momentum in AI Investing

• Risk Appetite and Early Movers (08:10–08:49):
  The hosts reflect on how successful products often start with eccentric, high-risk founders or odd beginnings.

  • “If you think of the history of large general population products, you see a lot of them actually being pretty risky early on…” (Brian Kim Jo, 08:49)

• “Momentum is a Moat” (00:00, 08:49–09:54):
  Brian’s central thesis is that momentum—both in terms of distribution and product iteration—is the only real “moat” in fast-moving tech.

  • “Momentum is a moat today in this sort of era of AI applications. … The calculated risk here is that Roy can convert this awareness into people clamoring to work at the company…then use that to continue to iterate on innovation on the product format.” (Brian Kim Jo, 00:00 & 08:49)

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4. Product Use and Endorsement

• The hosts and their team have been hands-on users and paid subscribers of Cluely, noting its speed and quality of answers. They compare it favorably to ChatGPT.
  • “We’re paid subscribers of Cluely. … The answers were very good. … It answered the 747 question better than my ChatGPT 4.0 direct answer.” (John & Jordi, 05:13)

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5. Platforms, Mobile, and the Tech Adoption Curve

• Desktop vs. Mobile Distribution (09:54–11:05):
  Jordi asks about challenges Cluely faces getting beyond desktop—especially given macOS and iOS restrictions around privacy and APIs.

• Brian’s Optimism and “Digital God” Analogy (11:05–11:45):
  Brian is bullish that platform challenges will be overcome and AI assistants like Cluely will eventually be omnipresent.

  • “AI is like a digital God we created and we trapped it behind a little chat box. … It is natural to me that it should live on a thing that you interact with the most. … The little boxes will get better, and we’re excited for that future.” (Brian Kim Jo, 11:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Momentum is a moat today in this sort of era of AI applications.”
  (Brian Kim Jo, 00:00, 08:49)

• “We invest for strengths as strengths, as, you know, not lack of weakness.”
  (Brian Kim Jo, 02:55)

• “From a media and audience perspective…I think of it as like a bunch of oceans…all of these pools of water are very, very deep.”
  (Brian Kim Jo, 07:27)

• “He is actually converting that to revenue…that’s the seriousness that underlies the crazy stunts people see outside.”
  (Brian Kim Jo, 05:30)

• “AI is like a digital God we created and we trapped it behind a little chat box.”
  (Brian Kim Jo, 11:05)

• “It answered the 747 question better than my ChatGPT 4.0 direct answer.”
  (Jordi, 05:13)

• “MrBeast follows Roy.”
  (Brian Kim Jo, 07:21)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:35–03:38 – Distribution and Product Love
• 05:13 – Cluely Outperforms ChatGPT for Specific Use Case
• 05:30 – Conversion from Hype to Revenue
• 07:27–08:10 – Virality and Audience “Oceans”
• 08:49–09:54 – Calculated Risk and Momentum
• 11:05 – AI as the “Digital God” and Platform Adoption

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Episode Flow & Tone

The episode unfolds with a fast-paced, conversational style, balancing John and Jordi’s playful curiosity and skepticism against Brian’s thoughtful, optimistic explanations. The tone is candid, with frequent asides about industry dynamics, VC culture, and even in-studio jokes about their intern’s “office pod”. The group’s familiarity with both Cluely and Roy creates a relaxed yet insightful atmosphere; Brian’s soundbites are especially punchy and memorable.

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Summary

a16z’s investment in Cluely is rooted in belief in founder-led distribution, breakthrough product experience, and the potential for viral attention to drive real business. Brian Kim Jo’s framework centers on momentum, the willingness to back unconventional founders, and optimism toward platform evolution. The episode demystifies AI investing at the intersection of internet culture, product innovation, and venture risk-taking.

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Transcript

[Brian Kim Jo]

I have a saying where momentum is a moat today in this sort of era of AI applications. And when I say momentum is a moat, I don't mean just distribution, I also mean product iteration. And so the calculated risk here is that Roy can convert this awareness into people clamoring to work at the company that are highly high and exceptional, great people to build products and then use that to continue to iterate on innovation on the product format. That is already amazing.

[Podcast Narrator]

Yesterday, A16Z partner Brian Kim Jo joined TVPN with hosts John and Jordi. The discussion centers on Cluli, an AI product that has generated significant attention online. Brian shares his perspective on the decision to invest, how he evaluates early traction and distribution, and what he looks for when backing founders with unconventional go to market strategies. Let's get into it. As a reminder, the content here is for informational purposes only, should not be taken as legal, business, tax or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any A16Z fund. Please note that A16Z and its affiliates may also maintain investments in the companies discussed in this podcast. For more details, including a link to our investments, please see a16z.com disclosures.

[John]

Brian, welcome to the studio.

[Jordi]

How are you doing? Good to meet you.

[Brian Kim Jo]

Good to meet you. Great to be here. Thanks John. Thanks Jordy.

[John]

Your notifications must be crazy right now. Clearly you guys decided hey Friday, let's let's throw it out.

[Brian Kim Jo]

That's right.

[John]

Nobody's crazy to launch.

[Brian Kim Jo]

Everyone's going to going going on a weekend. Yeah.

[Jordi]

There's no other Andreessen deals that are really taking up mind share right now. This is the one.

[John]

Yeah you guys. The thinking machines was leaking to the steamrolled 2 billion and of course Cluley suck all the attention out of the ring.

[Brian Kim Jo]

Sure.

[Jordi]

For sure. This is that one.

[John]

Anyways we got your launch post here that we read briefly earlier on the show but why don't you break down background on you and then let's break down the deal why you invested and then of course we're going to have Roy on in just 10 minutes.

[Brian Kim Jo]

Fantastic background on me. Been at a 16D for four or five years. Look at a lot of the AI applications. You met a bunch of my colleagues here and had them on Already invest in 11 labs function health of the world and prior to this was a snap as early employee and with a cfo. Were you down in la? Yeah.

[Jordi]

Are you in LA now?

[Brian Kim Jo]

No, I'm in New York right now. My heart is in LA.

[Jordi]

Okay. Yeah, we got to get you back. LA's. LA's coming up.

[Brian Kim Jo]

It was too nice to live, you know. All right, so deal. Rational anatomy of deal, or as you said, the anatomy. I think it, like, really, really breaks down to a couple things, but really three points. One is, you know, distribution. It's really, really hard to get distribution these days, and to get it repeatedly is a little bit of a dark art.

[Jordi]

Yep.

[Brian Kim Jo]

And so I think Roy had that in abundance. So one got the distribution. We invest for strengths as strengths, as, you know, not lack of weakness. And so that's really exciting for us. Second, I love the product. You know, I grew up on Dragon Ball Z, and I always wanted one of those scouters that tells you, how strong is Jordy, how strong is John. Like, the thing goes up. Right. And that's essentially what it is on your web browser. Right. Talking to people. You just do a quick command, enter, and it just gives you all the things you need to know while reading it and looking into your eyes. I think that's special. I think that sort of is right for a lot of the use cases, whether it's consumer or enterprise. So I love the product.

[John]

That's one thing I'll call out today. We've had our intern over on the intern cam testing the product all day long, and I've been impressed.

[Jordi]

Yeah, I'm impressed.

[John]

He's there.

[Jordi]

Tyler, give us.

[Brian Kim Jo]

There we go.

[Jordi]

How are you liking it so far?

[Brian Kim Jo]

Yeah, it's been really good. I mean, it's very fast. The answers are really good. I think it's like a great product.

[Jordi]

Well, that's amazing. Out of 10, what would you rate it?

[Brian Kim Jo]

Why or why did you put it? I would say nine.

[Jordi]

It's our version of kind of like the office in a box. What do they call this?

[Brian Kim Jo]

The Office.

[John]

Yeah, a lot of people have, like, these. Toll booth.

[Jordi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John]

Phone booth style.

[Jordi]

I think the world. I can't remember, but live in the pod. And our version of a PO is a Maybach.

[John]

Yeah, it's very perfectly. It's perfectly soundproof. So when we don't want to hear.

[Jordi]

Him, he just rolls up the window. He just rolls up. But he's got a desk in there. He's got a comfortable setup.

[Brian Kim Jo]

Phenomenal. Phenomenal.

[John]

Massage chair.

[Brian Kim Jo]

Good ergonomics.

[John]

Yes, thank you. Thank you, Tyler.

[Jordi]

Yeah, yeah.

[John]

So that was. So we've. We've had Roy on the show a couple times. We've covered some of the various stunts, and we got some pushback. One of the Times we had him on because we hadn't used the product and somebody was calling us out as a company. We're paid. We're paid subscribers of Cluly. We're customers. You can throw the TVPN logo on the site. And I've been impressed. Like, we were kind of firing back questions, using it more in that interview functionality. And the answers were very good. Guesstimates of if somebody that had generalized knowledge on a topic being able to answer quickly and he actually looked better.

[Jordi]

Question on it answered the 747 question better than my ChatGPT 4.0 direct answer question.

[John]

Clearly mogged.03.

[Jordi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What. Whatever the f. Whatever. I was an 03. Love it, but it did. Well, I guess the last point I'll.

[Brian Kim Jo]

Just add on, you know, it's a, you know, revenue conversion. A lot of people think, oh, is it just hype? And what's happening? Is it all distribution, all the stunts? The truth is that he. He is actually converting that to revenue. Right. Whether it's consumer or enterprise. So that, to me is sort of the, I guess, the seriousness that underlies the crazy stunts that people see outside. And that combination works for me. I'm excited for it. And, you know, let's go, let's go.

[Jordi]

Let's go back to the first one. Roy's clearly great at distribution, breaking through, getting attention. It feels like Earned media does have a cap versus paid media or brand marketing or some of the other flywheels of, you know, referral programs or. Or, you know, some viral mechanic doesn't have a cap.

[John]

John. He's going to be in front of Congress, you know, using clulee and some spectacles. Well, that's cheating when he's dragged in front of Congress, you know, for antitrust.

[Jordi]

Do you think it has a cap or, or. And because you could one. One scenario is, is this is his. This is not. This is not his, uh, this is not his permanent go to market motion. It's. It's merely the beachhead. It's. It's the way to break through, get attention, hire the first 50 interns, but the next thousand interns will come through recruiters and kind of standard practice, and he'll be on a more traditional podcast circuit when he has news, but we won't be hearing from him every single day. Uh, the other is that maybe we're in a new era and he actually can. And the company can go viral every single day. And you're seeing kind of the, the Mr. Beast playbook in reverse instead of Mr. Beast going viral every day and then launching a snack brand the other way around. So he builds a company and then becomes famous on the back of that company. Which one of those feels right to you?

[Brian Kim Jo]

Yeah, I think maybe I'll just comment one MrBeast follows Roy. So that's.

[Jordi]

There we go.

[Brian Kim Jo]

Fun fact.

[Jordi]

One that makes sense.

[Brian Kim Jo]

Fun fact too, I think from a media and audience perspective. John and Jordi, I think I think of it as like a bunch of oceans. There's no one ocean. There is Indian Pacific Atlantic and that's Twitter, you know, Facebook properties as well as like, you know, more organic. And all of these pools of water are very, very deep. Yeah. And in terms of general population, who I lovingly call our, you know, consumers, I still think it's so early. The only consumer AI product people are using are really ChatGPT. Yeah. And for them to actually learn about products like this and use it, I think the sort of oceans way deeper than we imagine and we're just scratching the surface today.

[John]

Talk about calculated risk. This feels, you know, this is a calculated bet. You guys invested 15 million in the company. He's clearly talented on the product side, clearly talented on the attention side. You know, he's charismatic, he's fun to talk to, he's well spoken, all these things. So there's a lot of reasons to love it. And then the, the pushback and, and other, other VCs that maybe didn't do the deal would say, oh, Roy's like a wild, wild card. Like, do you, do you think that more investors need to be comfortable with like a very potential real risk? And, and, and maybe the average VC has just gotten a little soft.

[Brian Kim Jo]

Good things I think look like if you think of the history of large general population products, you see a lot of them actually being pretty risky early on. Odd or not. For Facebook, where does Snap begin? What was, you know, Reddit initially and sort of think of thinking about that. I think they're the beginning of a lot of the consumer products and products that are used by many people have a funny beginning sometimes. And I think so one calculator risk site, we're comfortable with that. And I think second thing is when I, you know, I have a saying where momentum is a moat today in this sort of era of AI applications. And when I say momentum is a moat, I don't mean just distribution, I also mean product iteration. And so the calculated risk here is that Roy can convert this awareness into people clamoring to work at the company that are highly high and exceptional. Great, great people to build products and then use that to continue to iterate on innovation on the product format. That is already amazing. So that's sort of the bet, if you will. And when those two come together, I think we'll be surprised.

[Jordi]

How do you think about restrictions or dynamics from the major, like big tech companies? Because you mentioned that, you know, there's a consumer angle here, but when I see the product, I see it as a desktop app and many consumer interactions happen on the phone. And so, you know, Roy was fantastic at creating a viral moment around the idea of like using Clulee on a first date. And yet you're not gonna have a first date over a zoom meeting on your MacBook Pro.

[John]

Maybe Roy's planning another pandemic.

[Jordi]

Yeah, maybe. But people do talk to each other on the phone and on FaceTime. But it's much harder to plug in and do screen recording and do picture in picture and all of that. So it feels like there needs to be some sort of transition point if you're going to go broader to killer use cases for consumer. But at the same time you're going to bump up against a ton of pushback from the platforms who just say, we don't want to give you access to that API. We don't want you to screen record for privacy reasons, good or bad.

[Brian Kim Jo]

So I don't disagree. We are techno optimists and I would believe that there will be another innovation that actually allows the likes of Pluli to live and be omnipresent and everyday interaction. That said, you know, AI is like a digital God we created and we trapped it behind a little chat box. Yeah. So it is natural to me that it should live on a thing that you actually work and interact with the most. And we're starting with computers today because that's where the power is. Like, that's actually the digital God is not godly enough on a little, little, you know, little devices today. So we put it in a little larger box. Yep. And the little boxes will get better and we're excited for that future.

[John]

Awesome. Well, I'm excited for you guys. Congratulations on the deal. And we got to get Roy in here. And we should pull up, we should pull up the launch video as well. But thank you for joining. Thanks for having me, Brian. Thank you for being bold and making real bet.

[Jordi]

Probably have to fight it out with the American dynamism team because as we know, they're working on hardware, they're working on re industrialization, they're doing everything over there.

[Brian Kim Jo]

Thank you.

[Jordi]

So much for stopping by. We'll talk to you soon.

[John]

Cheers.

[Jordi]

Bye.

[Podcast Narrator]

Thanks for listening to the A16Z podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, let us know by leaving a [e-mail] a16z. We've got more great conversations coming your way. See you next time.